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[Axxle]

After reading through Galz's posts a lot I have a better feeling about him.  He definitely seemed to be scumhunting various people constantly.

[Dsell]

Here's the thing Dsell and Robz. Is there anything I could actually do at this point to convince you guys I'm town?

I went a little crazy Day 1; I can't really explain it but a lot of us have moved on from that to looking for real scumz.

That's the catch in these games. There's very little anyone can do to convince anyone else that they're town (aside from dying). You know that. I will say that I will try to not have total jotheonah tunnel vision because that is a very bad idea (that has burned me in the past). But no, obviously there is nothing you can do to convince me 100%.

[jotheonah]

I mean the problem is that I AM town, so from where I'm sitting the case against me is just this horrible distraction from scumhunting, you know?

Like, Night 1 I was super-ok with being the lynch if that was helpful, but at this point a mislynch is a much worse thing for town so I'm really not ok with it.

I don't have a strong scum read on anyone. But I suspect the voters on me, Robz and Dsell a little more, because I feel like a lot of smart players - too many for all of them to be mafia - have seen past my weird play and concluded that, though weird and possibly anti-town, my play is not, and has not been scummy. But Dsell and Robz seem really fixated on me, really unable to make that leap to say "He's playing crazy, but not scummy."  And that bothers me a lot. AND YET if mafia, I would really expect the two of you to be stepping up your game, trying to beat a drum against me.

The weird thing about today (in-game) is that there are really no drums, no bandwagons, no evidence of a mafia train at all, despite that there are obviously many scum about. I really don't know what to do about it.

How many town are we at anyway? Did the double kill put us at an even number? How close to LyLo? Is No Lynch a thing?

[O]

I mean the problem is that I AM town, so from where I'm sitting the case against me is just this horrible distraction from scumhunting, you know?

Like, Night 1 I was super-ok with being the lynch if that was helpful, but at this point a mislynch is a much worse thing for town so I'm really not ok with it.

I don't have a strong scum read on anyone. But I suspect the voters on me, Robz and Dsell a little more, because I feel like a lot of smart players - too many for all of them to be mafia - have seen past my weird play and concluded that, though weird and possibly anti-town, my play is not, and has not been scummy. But Dsell and Robz seem really fixated on me, really unable to make that leap to say "He's playing crazy, but not scummy."  And that bothers me a lot. AND YET if mafia, I would really expect the two of you to be stepping up your game, trying to beat a drum against me.

The weird thing about today (in-game) is that there are really no drums, no bandwagons, no evidence of a mafia train at all, despite that there are obviously many scum about. I really don't know what to do about it.

How many town are we at anyway? Did the double kill put us at an even number? How close to LyLo? Is No Lynch a thing?

[O]

Rage missclick, anyways my post was going to be:


But you see J, I'm mafia *BECAUSE* I saw past your slightly odd play. Just ask pops!

[Glooble]

Ok, so I'm going to lay down an assumption that might be wrong: I don't think Galzria is scum. His reasons for advocating Axxle1 seemed sound to me when I voted, and they still seem sound now. I'm wary because of how well he fooled everyone in MII, but right now I'm finding Galz to be one of the more trustworthy players.

So if he is town, I think it's highly possible that the mafia managed to keep their hands clean. Jo would have jumped on that bandwagon whether he was down or mafia because it was taking heat off him. If I was mafia, and I knew that jo was, and he had done such a good job drawing suspicion to himself, I would have bussed him, and I would have tried to make it as convincing as possible. So I think if jo is Mafia, he is likely the only one who voted for Axxle.

If jo is town, I think mafia probably helped the Axxle wagon along, but no more than they needed to. I was swayed by Galz's arguments. I think it's highly possible a lot of other townies were. But if I had to pin down one Axxle voter other than jo as suspicious, it would be Grujah. I was suspicious of him day one for voting early without giving a lot of reasoning, and that hasn't gone away.

For the record, I still think jo is likely town, for the reasons I said day one - he's not stupid. I believe his roleclaim being a mistake, and that he's doing dumb things under the impression that having nothing to hide means you can play completely transparently.

If he is mafia, he's using some super-complex double-bluff strategy where he tries to make himself uber-suspicious, then get cleared so that everyone forgets about him. I find this possible, but unlikely.

[Galzria]

The problem I have with your assessment of Jotheonah is this Glooble:

He played a MUCH stronger town game in M-II. Robz and I both had to learn our lesson about playing fast and loose as town after our Mafia win, but J's actions just don't follow. If he were town, why would he change up a strategy that stood strongly once already? I would expect a change in composure if he DID have something to hide, not the other way 'round.

[O]

The problem I have with your assessment of Jotheonah is this Glooble:

He played a MUCH stronger town game in M-II. Robz and I both had to learn our lesson about playing fast and loose as town after our Mafia win, but J's actions just don't follow. If he were town, why would he change up a strategy that stood strongly once already? I would expect a change in composure if he DID have something to hide, not the other way 'round.

Stood strongly? I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure that the town in MII went down in flames.

[Galzria]

Yes O, it did, but not because J appeared anything other than town until we needed him to be.

[O]

until we needed him to be.

Exactly..

[jotheonah]

Could it be maybe that I saw how much fun O seemed to be having with this game and thought the game would be more fun if I played it more like O? And then realized that the way O plays is actually much more advanced AND more difficult than it looks?

[Glooble]

During MII he kept complaining in real life that he was spending way too much energy on the game, so I could see him attempting a less mentally strenuous strategy.

[Galzria]

Could it be maybe that I saw how much fun O seemed to be having with this game and thought the game would be more fun if I played it more like O? And then realized that the way O plays is actually much more advanced AND more difficult than it looks?

No.

[O]

Could it be maybe that I saw how much fun O seemed to be having with this game and thought the game would be more fun if I played it more like O? And then realized that the way O plays is actually much more advanced AND more difficult than it looks?

It does take a fine balance to not get yourself lynched...

[jotheonah]

Could it be maybe that I saw how much fun O seemed to be having with this game and thought the game would be more fun if I played it more like O? And then realized that the way O plays is actually much more advanced AND more difficult than it looks?

It does take a fine balance to not get yourself lynched...

iknowright? and everybody's a critic!

[Galzria]

until we needed him to be.

Exactly..

That's irrelevant to my point though that a town J plays VERY differently than the J here has. I'm not condemning him, but I don't understand why he would make the change to crazy, when he saw exactly how well it worked for others first hand.

[O]

until we needed him to be.

Exactly..

That's irrelevant to my point though that a town J plays VERY differently than the J here has. I'm not condemning him, but I don't understand why he would make the change to crazy, when he saw exactly how well it worked for others first hand.

Well... it worked well for TINAS and me in MI.

[jotheonah]

Blerg. It's frustrating and ironic that the weight around my neck THIS GAME is how supposedly good I was LAST GAME even though last game my team LOST HORRIBLY.

[jotheonah]

And to add to the irony train is the fact that the people who want to crucify me now for not being as townie as I was in that game are the very people who, as mafia, manipulated that townieness and won AS MAFIA.

[O]

Blerg. It's frustrating and ironic that the weight around my neck THIS GAME is how supposedly good I was LAST GAME even though last game my team LOST HORRIBLY.

Galzria just wants to think MII town was at all good because then it stands to follow that he as mafia had to be even more pro 

[Galzria]

Blerg. It's frustrating and ironic that the weight around my neck THIS GAME is how supposedly good I was LAST GAME even though last game my team LOST HORRIBLY.

Galzria just wants to think MII town was at all good because then it stands to follow that he as mafia had to be even more pro 

No, I wasn't BAD, but I have no clue why people there believed me. I got WAY more lucky than I was good. I just said things, and people went "oh, ok".

Hell, Axxle1 died for the same reason! I should just not talk when I play town. I have a tenancy to get people killed, and I'm not entirely sure why.

[jotheonah]

Ok, metamafia arguments aside there is a BIG DANGEROUS FALLACY attached to my wagon.

It is the fallacy of weird=scummy. It is a fallacy that loses mafia games.

So Robz, Dsell, and Galzria, ye who are so focused on my "weird," "bad," and "not like Mafia II" play, please be so kind as to explain why that play equates in any way to good mafia play.

[Axxle]

After reading through Galz's posts a lot I have a better feeling about him.  He definitely seemed to be scumhunting various people constantly.

... and now after reading this:

No, I wasn't BAD, but I have no clue why people there believed me. I got WAY more lucky than I was good. I just said things, and people went "oh, ok".

Hell, Axxle1 died for the same reason! I should just not talk when I play town. I have a tenancy to get people killed, and I'm not entirely sure why.

I'm becoming increasingly concerned as to why the mafia didn't kill Galz.

[Galzria]

Ok, metamafia arguments aside there is a BIG DANGEROUS FALLACY attached to my wagon.

It is the fallacy of weird=scummy. It is a fallacy that loses mafia games.

So Robz, Dsell, and Galzria, ye who are so focused on my "weird," "bad," and "not like Mafia II" play, please be so kind as to explain why that play equates in any way to good mafia play.

Good Mafia play is play that does not get you lynched. Were you lynched?

[O]

Ok, metamafia arguments aside there is a BIG DANGEROUS FALLACY attached to my wagon.

It is the fallacy of weird=scummy. It is a fallacy that loses mafia games.

So Robz, Dsell, and Galzria, ye who are so focused on my "weird," "bad," and "not like Mafia II" play, please be so kind as to explain why that play equates in any way to good mafia play.

Good Mafia play is play that does not get you lynched. Were you lynched?

Holy F**k!!! Everyone except Axxle1 is mafia!!!