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[O]

yea, you should hammer robz.

[Jorbles]

Okay Eevee, I'm suspicious of ashersky too, but why is an ashersky lynch better than a Robz lynch?

For the record I think we're better off lynching Robz. The player who is pushing for it the hardest has a lot more experience playing with Robz and his playstyle than anyone does judging ashersky's. The evidence against ashersky is there, but it's not any stronger a case than the one against Robz. The evidence against Robz is also there, and some of our most experienced players are on board with it. Why is the case against ashersky better?

The case against me is worse because I'm not scummy, really.  What can I do to convince you of that, Jorbs?  If I hammer Robz now, it looks like I'm trying to shut down talk about me, since that's where we seem to have gone.  If the choice has come down to hammer Robz or fill the wagon on me, well, of course I'm going to go with Robz, because I shouldn't be lynched.

It actually sounds like the choice isn't between Robz and me, so much as between Robz and Morgrim (or at least, it was).  I honestly don't know which one is better strategically for D2.

Also, Jorbles seems to have jumped from voice of reason to pushing on me pretty hard.  I think he is worth a second look on D2, whoever gets lynched today.

Hmmm, I guess I'll just have to keep observing you in the future. Your initial play could be first game jitters, but it's hard the sort of thing that is hard to tell. I am pushing, but I don't think pushing is a bad thing. It gets people to state their motivations. I did genuinely want to know why Eevee had voted for you. A vote shows a desire to lynch and I wanted to know why he thought your lynch was better than Robz's. I wanted to see if Eevee had an argument that would convince me to vote for you.

As to Morgrim, I think his odds of being Mafia are exactly 2/9. His play style makes him difficult to read, but doesn't strike me as being so much scummy as anti-town. He's been absent from the game since voting for Robz. He doesn't strike me as being particularly patient so maybe that's why he just hasn't been weighing in on these debates. He's only really showed up to throw a vote, watch the splash and then he disappeared. I don't like his playstyle, I don't think it helps the town, but is it mafia? Probably not. Hopefully we will get more out of him later in the game, but I'm not overly suspicious of him.

[yuma]

A prod has been sent out to Morgrim7.

[Eevee]

I share Jorbles's thoughts regarding morgrim, expect I'd say he is rather slightly town than exactly 2/8 (Jorbles, is that a scumslip, a mistake or are you actually unsure of your own alignment?). This disappearing act makes sense for a bored vanilla townie too, as sad as that is. Morgrim is never going to be nightkilled (especially now), so having him around as town is a bit problematic. Don't really know what the best course of action would be.

[Captain_Frisk]

I'm also satisfied that we've had sufficient time for discussion.  Weekends are usually dead anyway.

[Robz888]

I share Jorbles's thoughts regarding morgrim, expect I'd say he is rather slightly town than exactly 2/8 (Jorbles, is that a scumslip, a mistake or are you actually unsure of your own alignment?). This disappearing act makes sense for a bored vanilla townie too, as sad as that is. Morgrim is never going to be nightkilled (especially now), so having him around as town is a bit problematic. Don't really know what the best course of action would be.

Lynch him. That's the best course of action.

[Jorbles]

I share Jorbles's thoughts regarding morgrim, expect I'd say he is rather slightly town than exactly 2/8 (Jorbles, is that a scumslip, a mistake or are you actually unsure of your own alignment?). This disappearing act makes sense for a bored vanilla townie too, as sad as that is. Morgrim is never going to be nightkilled (especially now), so having him around as town is a bit problematic. Don't really know what the best course of action would be.

haha, oops, you'd think playing dominion i'd be better at that sort of math.

[ashersky]

I share Jorbles's thoughts regarding morgrim, expect I'd say he is rather slightly town than exactly 2/8 (Jorbles, is that a scumslip, a mistake or are you actually unsure of your own alignment?). This disappearing act makes sense for a bored vanilla townie too, as sad as that is. Morgrim is never going to be nightkilled (especially now), so having him around as town is a bit problematic. Don't really know what the best course of action would be.

Lynch him. That's the best course of action.

We don't have the votes for that.  We do for you, though.  Anyone willing to change their vote?  If not, it sounds like we can go ahead and lynch Robz.

[GeoLib]

Ok. I'm back.

I realize this has been addressed, but Cuzz's Eevee-Robz scumbuddy theory is patently absurd (sorry Cuzz). It assumes we've already found one scum and that the other scum would want to draw the votes away by.... Putting them on himself?!? Eevee and Robz could be scum buddies, but this would be because Eevee is saying he wants to vote Robz, but not voting Robz. Deliberately getting yourself lynched by acting suspicious is probably the worst scum strategy ever (Go on, correct me you pedants).

I agree with O that if Robz flips scum then it's pretty unlikely that anyone on the wagon is scum. Bussing you scum-buddy D1 is almost as bad as deliberately lynching yourself. The only reason to hop on the wagon is if it seems inevitable to vindicate yourself and I don't think there was ever a point where the wagon seemed huge and inevitable for someone to just hop on. Is the vote count in the order that they voted??

I am suspicious of Cuzz's call for someone to hammer without more discussion. It wasn't a "I think it's time for the hammer. What thinks the group?" It was a "individual person, hammmer!" O did the same thing, but he's been pushing Robz lynch the whole time. Could Cuzz perhaps be scum calling for the lynch while he still looks clean?

I notice that O has changed his style somewhat. No longer making absolute declarations. I appreciate this, and it seems like a nod to my obvious annoyance at his certitude (Thanks, O). OTOH, does changing your style like this seem scummy? I think it probably doesn't. Just a realization that one way isn't going to get you any further.

Oh and just saw the post about Jorble's math. I too have made the same mistake, viewing the game as an objective outsider. You make a good point though. I now view each of you as more scummy than before! 

[yuma]

Is the vote count in the order that they voted??

I have been trying to keep the order, and I believe voltgloss has as well, let us know if you think the order is off

[GeoLib]

I share Jorbles's thoughts regarding morgrim, expect I'd say he is rather slightly town than exactly 2/8 (Jorbles, is that a scumslip, a mistake or are you actually unsure of your own alignment?). This disappearing act makes sense for a bored vanilla townie too, as sad as that is. Morgrim is never going to be nightkilled (especially now), so having him around as town is a bit problematic. Don't really know what the best course of action would be.

Lynch him. That's the best course of action.

We don't have the votes for that.  We do for you, though.  Anyone willing to change their vote?  If not, it sounds like we can go ahead and lynch Robz.

Yeah we do... I mean, at least we do theoretically. There are 4 votes on Robz, leaving 5 that could go on Morgrim. Your math sucks too... Unless I'm missing something?

I am still reluctant to lynch Robz because I don't think he's scum, but as Eevee points out, his flip would give us some info. Wait a sec... It looks like it only gives us lots of info if he is scum. (I look scummy, Everyone on wagon looks towny). What do we get if he flips town? AIRC, the only info we get is that I look slightly townier, and that just doesn't seem worth it really. Does it?

Last night lying in bed (yeah I was thinking about this while trying to sleep. Apparently I have no life...) I thought that perhaps before we lynch we should have everyone say some last words. I was really happy with this idea, but then I realized that it would just give scum the opportunity to NK whoever's last words were the most wrong... Damn, and I thought I was so smart. Of course I could have just suggested the last words part and then relied on scum to figure out the rest, NK an unsuspecting townie and then point out the problem the next day and suggest doing the opposite of whatever they said, but that seemed too much like playing the rest of the town, which felt scummy. Ah well. I guess this entire paragraph is pretty much useless then...

[ashersky]

We don't have the votes for that.  We do for you, though.  Anyone willing to change their vote?  If not, it sounds like we can go ahead and lynch Robz.

Yeah we do... I mean, at least we do theoretically. There are 4 votes on Robz, leaving 5 that could go on Morgrim. Your math sucks too... Unless I'm missing something?

I meant, we don't have the votes unless folks unvote first.  Jorbles or I could just hammer Robz, but even with both our votes on Morgrim, it would take at least one changed vote.  That's the math I was doing, anyway.

I am still reluctant to lynch Robz because I don't think he's scum, but as Eevee points out, his flip would give us some info. Wait a sec... It looks like it only gives us lots of info if he is scum. (I look scummy, Everyone on wagon looks towny). What do we get if he flips town? AIRC, the only info we get is that I look slightly townier, and that just doesn't seem worth it really. Does it?

I think if he flips town, it also makes Eevee look townier.  Probably brings some suspicion on O for his press to lynch Robz.

[Voltgloss]

Is the vote count in the order that they voted??

I have been trying to keep the order, and I believe voltgloss has as well, let us know if you think the order is off

Yes, in each votecount I have kept votes in the order they were cast.

[Jorbles]

I am suspicious of Cuzz's call for someone to hammer without more discussion. It wasn't a "I think it's time for the hammer. What thinks the group?" It was a "individual person, hammmer!" O did the same thing, but he's been pushing Robz lynch the whole time. Could Cuzz perhaps be scum calling for the lynch while he still looks clean?

I couldn't remember when this happened so I dug it up, click through for link:

Recent quotes from Eevee:
...
Can someone please hammer so we can get some real information before the mafia have chance to screw with us more?

Wasn't this right after the debate about whether prolonging debate when a lynch is certain helps or hinders scum? Cuzz evidently believes it helps scum. I don't, but I am starting to think we're running out of things to talk about. I unlike some of the other potential hammers I do think Robz is our best bet at scum. As Geolib obliquely suggests, I will say it: "I think it's time for the hammer, what thinks the group?"

I will hammer on a majority, unless someone beats me to it/really wants to do it themselves.

[O]

YES. HAMMER. derp

[ashersky]

Wasn't this right after the debate about whether prolonging debate when a lynch is certain helps or hinders scum? Cuzz evidently believes it helps scum. I don't, but I am starting to think we're running out of things to talk about. I unlike some of the other potential hammers I do think Robz is our best bet at scum. As Geolib obliquely suggests, I will say it: "I think it's time for the hammer, what thinks the group?"

I will hammer on a majority, unless someone beats me to it/really wants to do it themselves.

I guess I can do it.  Vote: Robz888.  Let's see how this goes.

[GeoLib]

I am suspicious of Cuzz's call for someone to hammer without more discussion. It wasn't a "I think it's time for the hammer. What thinks the group?" It was a "individual person, hammmer!" O did the same thing, but he's been pushing Robz lynch the whole time. Could Cuzz perhaps be scum calling for the lynch while he still looks clean?

I couldn't remember when this happened so I dug it up, click through for link:

Recent quotes from Eevee:
...
Can someone please hammer so we can get some real information before the mafia have chance to screw with us more?

Wasn't this right after the debate about whether prolonging debate when a lynch is certain helps or hinders scum? Cuzz evidently believes it helps scum. I don't, but I am starting to think we're running out of things to talk about. I unlike some of the other potential hammers I do think Robz is our best bet at scum. As Geolib obliquely suggests, I will say it: "I think it's time for the hammer, what thinks the group?"

I will hammer on a majority, unless someone beats me to it/really wants to do it themselves.

As I said before: I don't like it. I vote no.

[Jorbles]

Oh well, I guess that's that.

[Robz888]

Wasn't this right after the debate about whether prolonging debate when a lynch is certain helps or hinders scum? Cuzz evidently believes it helps scum. I don't, but I am starting to think we're running out of things to talk about. I unlike some of the other potential hammers I do think Robz is our best bet at scum. As Geolib obliquely suggests, I will say it: "I think it's time for the hammer, what thinks the group?"

I will hammer on a majority, unless someone beats me to it/really wants to do it themselves.

I guess I can do it.  Vote: Robz888.  Let's see how this goes.

Is that 5? You're wrong, I'm town. Remember, Morgrim and O. Adios!

[GeoLib]

Well shit. Looks like Ashersky took matters into his own hands. Robz, last words quick

[Robz888]

Well shit. Looks like Ashersky took matters into his own hands. Robz, last words quick

I just gave them to you.

[GeoLib]

Well shit. Looks like Ashersky took matters into his own hands. Robz, last words quick

I just gave them to you.

Yup. Popped up when I posted. Sorry

[Robz888]

Well shit. Looks like Ashersky took matters into his own hands. Robz, last words quick

I just gave them to you.

A hundred times actually. Nothing fundamental changed. Look at Morgrim, who is fake over the-the-top crazy, not town crazy. O defended him in a weird and scummy way. Watch out for the wagoners, Cuzz and super scum possible just newby ashersky.

[Robz888]

And welcome to the club of totally failing to lynch scum on Day 1!

[O]

welcome to the club of appearing scummy as hell D1