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[scott_pilgrim]

Claim order is nice in theory, but at this point I don't know whether TA is town or scum, and I wouldn't want him deciding the order if he were scum.  Still, I think any fixed order is better than no order.  It means that scum can't lurk to see what other people claim, and then jump in when they want.  To put it another way, if we don't fix an order, scum is effectively choosing the order by claiming when they want to, whereas if we do, then worst case, TA is scum and it's equally bad, but possibly the claim order helps us.  So I think it's fine if TA chooses an order.  Really I don't think it's likely to matter, but if it does I think it benefits town, so I would say go ahead TA.



Scum to town:
Archetype
PPS
(break)
Robz
AHoppy
faust
TA
(break)
SP

That's a little misleading because TA's position is heavily dependent on how PPS flips.  Archetype is at the top now, he was already high up but I really don't like how he came into today and said "Massclaim is best, I'm doc" without waiting for anyone to agree or disagree with the massclaim plan.  To me it looks like he's thinking "If I kick off this massclaim maybe others will follow" which I still think is better for scum than for town.

[Robz888]

Archetype is at the top now, he was already high up but I really don't like how he came into today and said "Massclaim is best, I'm doc" without waiting for anyone to agree or disagree with the massclaim plan.  To me it looks like he's thinking "If I kick off this massclaim maybe others will follow" which I still think is better for scum than for town.

I agree that it was scummy, but not for that reason. I think it's scummy because it like let's him get his claim out of the way, so that we will subconsciously add him to the list of people who are already accounted for. I read it as kind of gung-ho and forced.

[Twistedarcher]

If Arch is scum, the claim was definitely planned by him and his partners, so that's something to take into consideration...it would be scummy coming from anyone else, but I don't know if it is coming from Archetype....

[pingpongsam]

With Jimmmmm flipping Town I am more certain that AHoppy and/or Archetype are scum.

Vote: AHoppy

Why?

Pretty simple, my reads have basically just been spot on this whole game. I thought Jimmmmm was Town and he was. Robz and chairs were the only guys I thought might be scum but wasn't real sure about and we see how chairs flipped.

I'm still open to an Archetype or scotty lynch but I would have to see some claims/results/arguments first. I feel really good about the likelihood AHoppy flips scum. I've been saying that since D1 and every day in between. There has been nothing to occur that would change my mind otherwise to date.

I don't get this argument that you and Faust keep reading.

Your reads being spot on means NOTHING, especially when those have been exclusively town reads. You haven't yet nailed scum. Guess what? It's MUCH easier for scum to correctly identify town than it is for town to correctly identify town.

Why do you think having correct town reads should get you town cred, when if you were scum, you'd know who the town are?

Maybe I haven't "nailed scum" because no one else will vote where I am voting. To date I have failed to place a vote on a confirmed Townie with the exception of a heated OMGUS vote on Jimmmmm that I rescinded fairly quickly realizing OMGUS isn't good play. If I am not voting on Townies repeatedly all the way to D4 then it would appear at this point that I've been voting scum all along, no? Or do you think I am somehow scum who has been voting the same way all the way to D4 letting Town mop themselves up so this brilliant plan suddenly pans out on D4?

[Robz888]

Okay, but to take the other side, maybe you've never voted for town because you know who all the townies are? I'd say that never having voted for town is definitely a scum trait more than a town trait.

So maybe I do agree with TA.

[pingpongsam]

Your argument that scum knows who Town is better than Town does not explain why I've yet to vote a confirmed Townie. Does scum do that all the way to D4?

I think AHoppy is the most likely scum and I'm not dropping my vote because Robz thinks it makes it too easy for scum to hammer him.

That TA reads AHoppy as his top town read is mind boggling to me and if I didn't know him to be Town I'd think it was a huge scum tell.

PPE 1: How in the hell is never having voted for town a definite scum trait? Is this bizarro world? Even if you want to twist it that way then scum!pps must be bussing all along so then we should still follow scum!pps vote, right?

[Robz888]

Your argument that scum knows who Town is better than Town does not explain why I've yet to vote a confirmed Townie. Does scum do that all the way to D4?

I think AHoppy is the most likely scum and I'm not dropping my vote because Robz thinks it makes it too easy for scum to hammer him.

That TA reads AHoppy as his top town read is mind boggling to me and if I didn't know him to be Town I'd think it was a huge scum tell.

PPE 1: How in the hell is never having voted for town a definite scum trait? Is this bizarro world? Even if you want to twist it that way then scum!pps must be bussing all along so then we should still follow scum!pps vote, right?

Maybe scum does that all the way to Day 4. I mean, maybe you did. Town never voting for voting is certainly the stranger thing.

[Twistedarcher]

Scum only votes for town if they need to. If archetype and ahoppy are town, there's been no need to ever vote for town as mafia.

I am not saying this makes you obv scum but I am very confused at your call for town cred for this.

[pingpongsam]

Scum only votes for town if they need to. If archetype and ahoppy are town, there's been no need to ever vote for town as mafia.

I am not saying this makes you obv scum but I am very confused at your call for town cred for this.

I am thoroughly confused by the entirety of this quote. I mean I really don't comprehend it at all.

[Archetype]

Scum to Town:

scotty
AHoppy
(break)
Robz888
faust
pingpongsam
(break)
Twistedarcher
Archetype

Archetype is at the top now, he was already high up but I really don't like how he came into today and said "Massclaim is best, I'm doc" without waiting for anyone to agree or disagree with the massclaim plan.  To me it looks like he's thinking "If I kick off this massclaim maybe others will follow" which I still think is better for scum than for town.

I agree that it was scummy, but not for that reason. I think it's scummy because it like let's him get his claim out of the way, so that we will subconsciously add him to the list of people who are already accounted for. I read it as kind of gung-ho and forced.

I was all for it yesterday as well. I figured I'd claim right off the bat because:

A) I think it's best for Town. So yeah, I don't mind setting the precedent or urging people along.

B) I'm unlikely to be NKed. Seems like the general consensus is that I'm scummy and scum hate to NK scummy players when they can easily score a mislynch during the day. So me not claiming doesn't really "eliminate any NK targets" because I don't think I ever was one in the first place.

[Twistedarcher]

Scum only votes for town if they need to. If archetype and ahoppy are town, there's been no need to ever vote for town as mafia.

I am not saying this makes you obv scum but I am very confused at your call for town cred for this.

I am thoroughly confused by the entirety of this quote. I mean I really don't comprehend it at all.

You can play dumb or you can try to convince me you're town, your choice

[Archetype]

Remember Cops, immediatly claim Scum!results upon receiving them.

[faust]

Yeah. 7 players. 4 Town and 3 Scum. Sheesh.

Alright, we need to massclaim. If we mislynch today, scum knowing what our PRs are won't make a difference.

I'm a N1 Doctor. I protected faust. It was a tossup between him and PPS, and I ended up with faust. Probably the lamest one since D1 there were no obvious people to protect.

This post is weird. It's no good for town to claim doctor (especially, with your night!), it won't give twoncred, why would scum plan something like this? It actually makes me think Archetype is more likely town.

[faust]

Vote:Faust . It sucks that we have this stuff to analyze, but I feel that he jumped really quickly on the "A Town member made a slip! Modkill him, now!" Perhaps he didn't realize that it would end the day rather than putting us into MYLO, but that's how I immediately read it. It doesn't make sense for a town member to be jumping so quickly to "HEY NOW WE HAVE TO MODKILL THIS GUY!!!!!"

This is ridiculous. I said what I said because there was a rules violation, nothing else. Painting me scummy for that is really not fair. If you think I'm scum go ahead and make a case against me, but don't just take the easy way and vote for me based on a "scumslip" argument.

[faust]

Scum to town:

Faust
Robz
PPS
Archetype
Scott
Ahoppy


Everyone should make one of these lists.

Everyone should not only make one of these lists, but also give actual reasons for the placement of the players on the list.

[faust]

Also I do think it's safest to unvote!

That is right. I hadn't even completely realized that TA voted with a reason of little substance at MyLo!

[faust]

Scum only votes for town if they need to. If archetype and ahoppy are town, there's been no need to ever vote for town as mafia.

I am not saying this makes you obv scum but I am very confused at your call for town cred for this.

I am thoroughly confused by the entirety of this quote. I mean I really don't comprehend it at all.

You can play dumb or you can try to convince me you're town, your choice

I do not think this kind of posting leads us anywhere, and think you should try posting your thoughts in a civil manner.

[faust]

Okay, caught up. Now what's confusing me (and noone has really talked about this for some reason) is the Jimmmmm NK. Why Jimmmmm? The previous NK choices - Voltaire and yuma - seemed pretty straightforward, killing strong town players to hurt our progress. I would have expected Robz, TA or me to die tonight, as I felt we did most in terms of moving the game along (pps did also, but obviously, TA is a strictly superior kill for scum). Jimmmmm dying makes me think there's scum to be found among the active players.

[faust]

Updated data post:

D1 voting patterns:

Jimmmmm: Eevee(1,RVS), Archetype(1), Eevee(4), AHoppy(5), Teproc(7)
faust: yuma(1), pps(1), No Lynch(1), pps(2), No Lynch(3), Teproc(1), chairs(2), Teproc(2)
pingpongsam: Robz(1,RVS), AHoppy(3), Robz(3), AHoppy(5)
Voltaire: scott(1,RVS), chairs(1), pps(3), AHoppy(1), Archetype(1), AHoppy(4), Robz(2), Teproc(4)
yuma: faust(1), No Lynch(2), Robz(3), Eevee(3), AHoppy(6), Robz(1), Teproc(2), Teproc(6)
Archetype: nkirbit/Teproc(1,RVS), chairs(1), Eevee(2), Robz(4), Eevee(3), Teproc(6)
Eevee: TA(1), Teproc(3)
Twistedarcher: pps(2), yuma(1), Eevee(1)
Teproc: yuma(2), chairs(2), Jimmmmm(1), AHoppy(4)
scott_pilgrim: No Lynch(2), TA(3), AHoppy(5), Teproc(5)
AHoppy: Robz(2), chairs(2), Teproc(5)
chairs: TA(2), AHoppy(2), yuma(1), AHoppy(4)
Robz: chairs(1), Teproc(1), AHoppy(5)

AHoppy wagon at peak (1): chairs, scott, Teproc, yuma, Voltaire, pps (Robz intent)
Robz wagon at peak: yuma, Archetype, Voltaire, pps
AHoppy wagon at peak (2): Robz, chairs, scott, Teproc, pps
Teproc wagon at peak: faust, Eevee, Voltaire, scott_pilgrim, Archetype, AHoppy, yuma
Eevee wagon at peak: Twistedarcher, Archetype, yuma, Jimmmmm

D2 voting patterns:

Twistedarcher: Eevee(1)
Jimmmmm: Eevee(2), pps(1), Eevee(4)
Robz: yuma(1), pps(4), chairs(1), Eevee(5)
yuma: Robz(1), TA(1), Eevee(2)
Archetype: Eevee(3), scotty(1), pps(3), Eevee(3)
faust: Robz(2), AHoppy(1), pps(5), Archetype(2)
pingpongsam: Jimmmmm(1), AHoppy(1), faust(1), Archetype(3)
chairs: yuma(2), Archetype(4)
Eevee: Archetype(1), yuma(1), Archetype(1)
AHoppy: pps(2)
scott_pilgrim: Jimmmmm(2), pps(4), Eevee(6)

pps wagon at peak: Jimmmmm, AHoppy, Archetype, Robz, faust
Archetype wagon at peak: Eevee, faust, pps, chairs
Eevee wagon at peak: TA, yuma, Archetype, Jimmmmm, Robz, scott

D3 voting patterns:

Jimmmmm: Archetype(1)
faust: Archetype(2)
Twistedarcher: faust(1)
scott_pilgrim: pps(1)
chairs: pps(2)
Robz: pps(3)
pingpongsam: AHoppy(1)

pps wagon at peak: scott, chairs, Robz

# of times voted for confirmed town/# of total votes:

Twistedarcher: 3/5=60%
Robz:              5/8=63%
Archetype:      6/9=67%
faust:             4/11=36%
pps:               1/8=13%
AHoppy:          2/4=50%
scott:             3/7=43%

[faust]

Let me work some PoE here.

I do not think a scott/AHoppy/Archetype scumteam is possible. I don't think scum can do that good just by lurking. So, if I don't think that's possible, at least one scum has to be among Robz/pps/TA. Assume pps' claim is true, it has to be Robz. Then Robz was the one who wanted to hammer AHoppy D1, so I don't think they're scummates. The scumteam would then have to be scott/Archetype/Robz. If this is true, all of them would have been on the Eevee wagon together, which may be possible due to Archetype being the alternative. I have to reread these three to see if it's possible that they're scum together, and if it's not, pps has to be scum.

[faust]

TA, I would like you to claim.

[Twistedarcher]

TA, I would like you to claim.

No.

[faust]

TA, I would like you to claim.

No.

Yes, I would.

[Twistedarcher]

TA, I would like you to claim.

No.

Yes, I would.

Why? I'm not getting lynched today. What do you gain from me claiming when I'm not a viable candidate. 

[faust]

I gain information. What do we gain from you not claiming?