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[ashersky]

I don't find ashersky's arguments very convincing.

Not sure what arguments you mean.

I'm happy to expand on stuff, or give opinions on whatever you'd like.  I figure it's important to at least have an impact on the game as much as possible while I'm alive.

[ashersky]

Now I'm thinking its TvT, which really sucks. I had the same exact feeling as EFHW, until I read xeiron's post. Which makes me lean back to SvT, but this time with Voltaire as scum.

Not ready for voting at this point, but if Voltaire can give an adequate explanation for why he hose ash if he knew the prospects of his role, I'll end up voting for ash.

TvT would suck, yes.  There is definitely value in discussing which T is better to kill in this case.  I'd say we both have pretty terrible roles for town.

Voltaire, in the off chance that you are NOT lying, if I inherit your role, will I be forced to gladiate someone on D2?  Or is it specifically a D1 compulsion?

[faust]

There are a couple of open questions to this:

1) ash, why did you claim instead of just keeping quiet?
2) Voltaire, how exactly does the role inheritage work? Does the surviving player receive the role of the dead player, losing his own? If so, is your role compulsive every Day or only D1?
3) As already pointed out, why target a role that is, if the claim was truthful, is useless?
4) Voltaire, what made you so sure that there cannot be a non-compulsive anti-town role?

Pending answers to these questions, here's what we could do:

Lynch ash. Voltaire becomes a redirector. We have him confirm his role somehow (can we do this? I think we can) Warning: Voltaire could lie about nothing but his alignment, thus earning him an anti-town role. In fact, if this is in fact his role, but he is scum, it makes a lot of sense to target ashersky.

Lynch Voltaire. ash becomes a Gladiator, losing his previous role (?). We can direct his Gladiating the following Days, gaining an easy method to confirm PR claims without losing them. (Challange them, ash survives, gaining their role)

I like the second option better, but will wait for answers.

[Eevee]

I don't find ashersky's arguments very convincing.

Not sure what arguments you mean.

I'm happy to expand on stuff, or give opinions on whatever you'd like.  I figure it's important to at least have an impact on the game as much as possible while I'm alive.

I think Voltaire will be lynched.

[xeiron]

There are a couple of open questions to this:

1) ash, why did you claim instead of just keeping quiet?
2) Voltaire, how exactly does the role inheritage work? Does the surviving player receive the role of the dead player, losing his own? If so, is your role compulsive every Day or only D1?
3) As already pointed out, why target a role that is, if the claim was truthful, is useless?
4) Voltaire, what made you so sure that there cannot be a non-compulsive anti-town role?

Pending answers to these questions, here's what we could do:

Lynch ash. Voltaire becomes a redirector. We have him confirm his role somehow (can we do this? I think we can) Warning: Voltaire could lie about nothing but his alignment, thus earning him an anti-town role. In fact, if this is in fact his role, but he is scum, it makes a lot of sense to target ashersky.

Lynch Voltaire. ash becomes a Gladiator, losing his previous role (?). We can direct his Gladiating the following Days, gaining an easy method to confirm PR claims without losing them. (Challange them, ash survives, gaining their role)

I like the second option better, but will wait for answers.

It should not be difficult to confirm Voltaires new role.
If Ashesky flips scum, we pretty much know Voltaire is town, and we can trust his word. (I am ignoring the possibility of bot being scum)
If Ashersky flips town, we know Ashersky have told us the truth about his role.

What we have to watch out for is Voltaire being scum, and lying about the part that there will actually be an exchange of roles.

[EFHW]

what if scum!Voltaire wants the redirector role?

[EFHW]

I don't find ashersky's arguments very convincing.

Not sure what arguments you mean.

I'm happy to expand on stuff, or give opinions on whatever you'd like.  I figure it's important to at least have an impact on the game as much as possible while I'm alive.

I looked on the wiki, and there is nothing about role switching being bastard.  The actual role is not there. but the closest, which is absorber, is more extreme and is not bastard.

Also, I don't have a problem with when or how he announced his claim.  Involving town in who to pick is the same as picking who to lynch, which is never easy and can easily go to deadline and then Voltaire is dead.  His role is that he has to pick and he did.

[faust]

what if scum!Voltaire wants the redirector role?

In that case though, it would be really weird that he claimed this role switching.

[Voltaire]

Voltaire,
If you can aquire another role through winning the duel.
Why did you choose Ashersky, who had a self-proclaimed useless role?
Would it not be better to target someone with a good role?

No. My goal is to get scum lynched.

I do see what you are saying, and I considered that, but that would require a massclaim of sorts. Otherwise I'm firing blindly, and I decided that was too big a risk.

[Voltaire]

Voltaire, in the off chance that you are NOT lying, if I inherit your role, will I be forced to gladiate someone on D2?  Or is it specifically a D1 compulsion?

You won't be forced. The compulsion was for D1, I checked with yuma before.

[Voltaire]

2) Voltaire, how exactly does the role inheritage work? Does the surviving player receive the role of the dead player, losing his own? If so, is your role compulsive every Day or only D1?
3) As already pointed out, why target a role that is, if the claim was truthful, is useless?
4) Voltaire, what made you so sure that there cannot be a non-compulsive anti-town role?

Pending answers to these questions, here's what we could do:

Lynch ash. Voltaire becomes a redirector. We have him confirm his role somehow (can we do this? I think we can) Warning: Voltaire could lie about nothing but his alignment, thus earning him an anti-town role. In fact, if this is in fact his role, but he is scum, it makes a lot of sense to target ashersky.

Lynch Voltaire. ash becomes a Gladiator, losing his previous role (?). We can direct his Gladiating the following Days, gaining an easy method to confirm PR claims without losing them. (Challange them, ash survives, gaining their role)

I like the second option better, but will wait for answers.

Do not like this one bit. You realize you are setting up a plan to lynch lots of town players?

Also I think my previous posts covered the mechanics behind this, let me know if you still have questions.

That said I don't think scum is so bold...

[faust]

I think I have heard enough to vote: Voltaire now.

Here are the outcomes:

Voltaire is town/ash is town: We lose ash's anti-town role and get a role that might be useful later on.
Voltaire is scum/ash is town: That's good, for sure.
Voltaire is town/ash is scum: Ash loses whatever good scum role he had, and receives a role that scum doesn't want to use, but he has to use it to appear townie.
Voltaire is scum/ash is scum: One scum down.

It's mostly that a Voltaire mislynch is much better in my eyes than an ash mislynch, and I can't really tell who of them is more likely to be scum.

[Voltaire]

What we have to watch out for is Voltaire being scum, and lying about the part that there will actually be an exchange of roles.

Actually, you don't have to trust that. If you're worried I'll remain a Gladiator, just lynch me the next time I challenge someone. Problem solved. (not that it will happen, but you know)

[xeiron]

What we have to watch out for is Voltaire being scum, and lying about the part that there will actually be an exchange of roles.

Actually, you don't have to trust that. If you're worried I'll remain a Gladiator, just lynch me the next time I challenge someone. Problem solved. (not that it will happen, but you know)

Of course we should lynch you if you challenge someone else.
But should we lynch you if you do not challenge someone else?
You said there ithe role is no longer compulsive after D1.

[EFHW]

Does this role switching affect the flip?  Will we find out what the lynched person's role was?

[Voltaire]

What we have to watch out for is Voltaire being scum, and lying about the part that there will actually be an exchange of roles.

Actually, you don't have to trust that. If you're worried I'll remain a Gladiator, just lynch me the next time I challenge someone. Problem solved. (not that it will happen, but you know)

Of course we should lynch you if you challenge someone else.
But should we lynch you if you do not challenge someone else?
You said there ithe role is no longer compulsive after D1.

It's not if I'm dead and it goes to someone else.

If I'm alive, it means its because I have someone else's role.

I'm totally game to proving this with ash's role if that's the route we go (if someone has a role that could confirm this).

[Voltaire]

Does this role switching affect the flip?  Will we find out what the lynched person's role was?

I would assume no, because we'll each have our original roles at the time one of us is lynched. But let me ask. I didn't think about that.

[EFHW]

I think this is town!Voltaire.  I have no idea about ashersky.  So back to vote: ashersky.

[faust]

Can we have a vote count?

I think Voltaire is at L-1 at the moment, but I'm not sure.

[Voltaire]

It looks like I am indeed. That's small games for you. Here's what I have.

Vote Count 1.Voltaire

Voltaire (4): ashersky, Eevee, jotheonah, faust
ashersky (2): Voltaire, EFHW

Not Voting (3): Walrus, xeiron, Archetype

faust, what do you find townie about ashersky's actions/play so far?

[xeiron]

I go with Vote: Ashersky.
For basicly the same reason as EFHW.
I think Voltaire is town. I am leaning town on Ashersky as well, but I am more confident in the Voltaire read.

[faust]

faust, what do you find townie about ashersky's actions/play so far?

I find it hard to see the scum narrative for ashersky's claim. His claim is supported by Archetype, who says it's a good fit flavorwise (and I'm going to trust him there, as I don't know the first thing about the flavor). Now of course it is a scum role in appearance, but why would ashersky claim that?

Also I think the way he handled the accusations against him were townie, but that's more of a gut feel than anything else.

It's most likely from my point of view that this is TvT, and if it is, you are the better mislynch, sorry. Even if it isn't, mislynching you is less bad than mislynching ash.

[xeiron]

faust, what do you find townie about ashersky's actions/play so far?

I find it hard to see the scum narrative for ashersky's claim. His claim is supported by Archetype, who says it's a good fit flavorwise (and I'm going to trust him there, as I don't know the first thing about the flavor). Now of course it is a scum role in appearance, but why would ashersky claim that?

Also I think the way he handled the accusations against him were townie, but that's more of a gut feel than anything else.

It's most likely from my point of view that this is TvT, and if it is, you are the better mislynch, sorry. Even if it isn't, mislynching you is less bad than mislynching ash.

So you think gladiator is a better/more important role than redirector?
Why do you think so?

[faust]

So you think gladiator is a better/more important role than redirector?
Why do you think so?

Non-compulsive Gladiator with role inheritance means we can mislynch a PR and still have that PR around. Redirector who can't redirect kills does nothing for town, as ashersky already stated.

I guess I should say, there's something that makes ash's claim more believable to me, but I do not want to reveal it at this point.

[jotheonah]

Question for the group, especially the tvt crowd:

If you were allowed to lynch anybody (not just ash or volt), who would you be voting for and why?

I'd like to get some things on record before end of day.

I'll say faust, mostly because I didn't like his vote on me earlier, his reasons for it, or his subsequent backpedalling from those reasons.