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[ashersky]

Scum gladiators have to be compulsive, or scum won't use the role.  It highly increases the chances of a scum lynch, you see.  That's the main argument for a compulsive gladiator being scum.

If Volt is a town gladiator, he's probably lying about part of his role, like the compulsive part.


As for my reaction, what did you expect.  Check the votes, I've been on you since day one.  Caught scum is caught.

Compulsive gladiator is a scum role only.

[Voltaire]

Because I wanted to make sure I wasn't suffering from confirmation bias.

It doesn't contradict my challenging him because it's just for different reasons. Claim = fishy, a reason from an ongoing game I swear I will post the moment it ends, posts = scummy. I tried to weigh the first two more and throw away the third. Which is not entirely possible because I am human but eh.

I do appreciate that town is put in a strange claiming dilemma because of this. The nice thing is that I am already getting some reads on who I think is more likely to be scum even if I am wrong about ash. I assume if I am right about ash then his partner really has no choice but to vote me. It's a nifty new situation.

[jotheonah]

So far, the claim is far from impossible to fake claim. I could type Challenge: faust, and that wouldn't make it so. Mod confirmation plz.

[ashersky]

I hope people aren't missing the point of my claim, which had nothing to do with me, and everything to do with optimal town play.

Others out there with misdirection roles: do not use them!

I claimed to put weight behind that request.  It showed I was willing to put my money where my mouth is.

Once Volt is mid-confirmed, I'll full claim.  Then you'll know I wasn't lying, and you can trust my posts in retrospect.

And do NOT give Volt IC status tomorrow and beyond, please.

[Voltaire]

Caught scum is caught.

Where have I seen this behavior before...

[ashersky]

Because I wanted to make sure I wasn't suffering from confirmation bias.

It doesn't contradict my challenging him because it's just for different reasons. Claim = fishy, a reason from an ongoing game I swear I will post the moment it ends, posts = scummy. I tried to weigh the first two more and throw away the third. Which is not entirely possible because I am human but eh.

I do appreciate that town is put in a strange claiming dilemma because of this. The nice thing is that I am already getting some reads on who I think is more likely to be scum even if I am wrong about ash. I assume if I am right about ash then his partner really has no choice but to vote me. It's a nifty new situation.

For the record, I was town in that game.  Maybe you mean every other recent game, where I was scum?

[ashersky]

Caught scum is caught.

Where have I seen this behavior before...

I plan to write you a gigantic, gloating post about how incredibly wrong you are in the speccy.

[Voltaire]

For the record, I was town in that game.  Maybe you mean every other recent game, where I was scum?

No, I mean that one, and that's all I'm going to say for now.

[ashersky]

I'd mention, town!ash is the perfect target for a scum gladiator.  Relatively little heat will be brought upon Voltaire for this.

[ashersky]

To be honest, I am trying my darnedest to give Voltaire the "he's a sadly misguided towny who has shown an unfair bias against me in the past" fair look.  But it's hairdo.

[Voltaire]

Eagerly awaiting the full-claim, ash. Also, you're talking as though you've already been lynched?

[ashersky]

Hairdo = hard too

[ashersky]

Eagerly awaiting the full-claim, ash. Also, you're talking as though you've already been lynched?

Eagerly awaiting mod-confirmation of your claim.

You think you're getting lynched?  You are never lynched on D1.  At least my flip will vindicate me against you.

[ashersky]

I'd suggest someone vote for someone other than us two right now.  That will help confirm the claim in the next vote count.

[Voltaire]

You think you're getting lynched?  You are never lynched on D1.  At least my flip will vindicate me against you.

Not lately, but it was all the rage for awhile. Except for my most recent 2ish games, I am always a D1 lynch candidate.

It confuses me because honestly that's not the reaction I expected.

As far as mod confirmation, well, fine, yeah.

[EFHW]

Because I wanted to make sure I wasn't suffering from confirmation bias.

It doesn't contradict my challenging him because it's just for different reasons. Claim = fishy, a reason from an ongoing game I swear I will post the moment it ends, posts = scummy. I tried to weigh the first two more and throw away the third. Which is not entirely possible because I am human but eh.

I do appreciate that town is put in a strange claiming dilemma because of this. The nice thing is that I am already getting some reads on who I think is more likely to be scum even if I am wrong about ash. I assume if I am right about ash then his partner really has no choice but to vote me. It's a nifty new situation.

I still don't understand.  It is either you or him, and you chose him.  It doesn't matter now if you think he is scummy or not, confirmation bias is no longer relevant, unless you plan to self-vote [in a yuma game, might get you mod-killed!].  You are speaking as if you are not sure if he is town or scum, but wishing to be objective means you don't want him lynched if he is town.

[EFHW]

Voltaire, weren't you the PoE instead of scum reads D1 guy? What happened to that?

Yes, I am. Suffice to say it has not been working lately. But more importantly, it isn't so much that ash is a scum read (though I am seeing it in all of his posts, I am trying to fight it, I can never tell what is going on) it's the claim that simply does not match up. It reeks of fakeclaim and I haven't ever seen ash lie as town.

bolded the "am", suggesting you are still trying to be objective post-challenge.

[Voltaire]

I still don't understand.  It is either you or him, and you chose him.  It doesn't matter now if you think he is scummy or not, confirmation bias is no longer relevant, unless you plan to self-vote [in a yuma game, might get you mod-killed!].  You are speaking as if you are not sure if he is town or scum, but wishing to be objective means you don't want him lynched if he is town.

You're forgetting the part where I'm a compulsive Gladiator and have to pick someone. I'm still trying to get a read on ash. It matters, trust me.

I still think I made the right choice, and I still think ash is most likely to be scum.

[ashersky]

In a head-to-head bout, I think I have very little chance of survival against most players on f.ds.  I generally survive as town by being more useful than many others.  Here, I'd have to convince a mostly biased group to keep me alive, which won't happen.


What's annoying to me is I think you just assumed the worst of me right off the bat when I claimed, instead of at least giving me the benefit of the doubt.  You have a fairly negative take on me (at least on occasion) and it hurts your ability to play well in games where we are both town, and gives you leeway to pursue my mislynch when you are scum.

Eevee, for example, starts from "I think town!ash makes this claim just as much as scum!ash, and I can definitely see how town!ash can believe this to be the right play" and works from there.  You, Volt, don't do this.  Neither do many others.  You hop straight to "what us scum!ash up to now?" and don't deviate.

[ashersky]

Might be worth getting everyone else to commit to an opinion on me v. Volt.  Everyone could post tvt, tvs, or svs.

[Voltaire]

Eevee, for example, starts from "I think town!ash makes this claim just as much as scum!ash, and I can definitely see how town!ash can believe this to be the right play" and works from there.  You, Volt, don't do this.  Neither do many others.  You hop straight to "what us scum!ash up to now?" and don't deviate.

Well, if you're town, I apologize, I got this one wrong, but I think it's more likely you're scum and this is AtE.

Might be worth getting everyone else to commit to an opinion on me v. Volt.  Everyone could post tvt, tvs, or svs.

Absolutely agree with this.

[ashersky]

I still don't understand.  It is either you or him, and you chose him.  It doesn't matter now if you think he is scummy or not, confirmation bias is no longer relevant, unless you plan to self-vote [in a yuma game, might get you mod-killed!].  You are speaking as if you are not sure if he is town or scum, but wishing to be objective means you don't want him lynched if he is town.

You're forgetting the part where I'm a compulsive Gladiator and have to pick someone. I'm still trying to get a read on ash. It matters, trust me.

I still think I made the right choice, and I still think ash is most likely to be scum.

You realize a better way to use your role might have been to wait for a lynch to basically be decided, then claim and challenge that person, then we just lynch that person anyway?  That would have taken out the risk, would have allowed town input into who we lynched, etc.

Or just claim and we all decide who you challenge.

There were more pro-town ways to do this.

[EFHW]

I still don't understand.  It is either you or him, and you chose him.  It doesn't matter now if you think he is scummy or not, confirmation bias is no longer relevant, unless you plan to self-vote [in a yuma game, might get you mod-killed!].  You are speaking as if you are not sure if he is town or scum, but wishing to be objective means you don't want him lynched if he is town.

You're forgetting the part where I'm a compulsive Gladiator and have to pick someone. I'm still trying to get a read on ash. It matters, trust me.

I still think I made the right choice, and I still think ash is most likely to be scum.

I get that before your choice you would want to make sure you didn't have confirmation bias going on.  But post-challenge, I don't think you are suggesting we should lynch you if ash is town, which would be the only alternative.  Town!Voltaire would fret internally about the responsibility of maybe having picked town, but not want town to join him with the result that he gets lynched instead.  By sharing your doubt, you are encouraging that outcome.  Scum!Voltaire would want to seem really towny, and would say towny things like "I don't want to have confirmation bias", but since that's not relevant, it looks fishy, as you say.

You say that we will find out later why it still matters.  I think Voltaire should claim before ashersky.

[Voltaire]

It is entirely possible I haven't played this ideally but this role has been done once on f.ds and it was a scum role, so there is absolutely nothing for me to consult beforehand.

I decided I absolutely did not want to crowdsource my challenge because then we run into the issue of (extra) scum manipulation. I decided the best route to go was to divide the day in half, basically, and create Day1.0 and Day1.5. We've got tons of reactions/interactions with more coming.

I'm certain others would have played the role differently. Some people think Vigs should always shoot for some reason.

[Voltaire]

You say that we will find out later why it still matters.  I think Voltaire should claim before ashersky.

If this turns out to be the consensus, absolutely.

Basically I am super shitty at cleverly withholding stuff. I have never figured out how to do it well and apparently never will.