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[EFHW]

If shouldn't analyze people's behavior to find out if they are scum or not because scum can intentionally manipulate that and mess with our process, what should we do instead?

I'm just saying that the ashersky question is WIFOM right now.  We don't have the information to make a judgment, certainly not enough to conclude he is scum.  The discussion we have already had seems to have canvassed all the angles, and we're at risk for becoming derailed for too long.  Like the 3rd party thing in I forget which game - LOTR2?

I never said don't analyze other people's behavior.

[Eevee]

Well, I guess you're right. And looking at ash's claim closer, it's weird as a scum move. I mean, claiming VT will instantly cast suspicion on you, and ashersky knows that. So... if he's town, he's hiding something. If he's scum, he's lying. Because of the possibility that ash has some sort of secret plan going, I would like to not lynch him today. So where are other candidates? Eevee is very strongly defending ash, which is interesting. I think it means that they are not scum together. And as already pointed out, jotheonah is also likely not scumpartner with ash. So... we lynch one of those, if they are scum, this indicates ash being town?

Eevee comes off townier in this than jotheonah, so vote: jotheonah.

This doesn't make sense to me.  Why lynch someone else to find out ash's alignment? 

This is also similar to what joth was doing, which is setting up "either/or" pairs, which creates the feeling that other players are off the table, whether or not that is your intention.

xeiron has been very quiet, also Archetype.

Good point about faust's post, it was actually even weirder than I though.. it's extremely weird to lynch someone else to get info on one player (what info, how reliable?), especially as that person has effectively claimed VT.

faust's logic to me seems to be "ash is a puzzle.. eevee and joth have taken strong stances on him.. we should maybe lynch one or the other to get a read on ash.. eevee comes off townier.. vote: joth". he doesn't even mention the possibility of looking at lynch candidates outside our top three contributors!

i've liked efhw's recent contributions, enough to remove her from my lynch pool in fact.

right now i'm looking at xeiron, walrus, voltaire and archetype. faust is sort of sitting on the fence.

ps: walrus, your vocabulary is awesome. i love reading your posts.

[EFHW]

Walrus you said the same things about Voltaire in Time Wars, and he was town.

? Are you referring to Game of Thrones? Volt modded Time War

If so, then I see your point, but I still think there's a difference in style there. His posts weren't as substantial or analytical as I wanted to see in Game of Thrones. But here they seem like terse one-liners, which feels off to me. Also bear in mind that he *was* scum in Chocolate Factory, and he had the same basic accusations levied against him there.

ok, I guess it was GoT.  I always mix up games.  I think he's trying to create drama, kind of like ashersky, with his terseness, and I don't know if that's scummy or not.  I didn't follow Chocolate Factory, so I can't comment there.

[ashersky]

More certain ash is scum. Unfortunately the reasons relate to an ongoing game.

Just noticed this.  You realize I'm not in any ongoing games?

[ashersky]

I promise you, I neither made a mistake nor did something antitown.

This post makes me think that ashersky, no matter which alignment he is, has not revealed the whole truth to us. Is is only left to decide for us whether he is lying scum or lying town.

Welcome to Wifomlandia.

You have to admit that, "if" I'm town, scum will have to decide what to do about me.  Am I dangerous to them?  Or am I just drawing their NK?

Take that scum!

[ashersky]

I like this, actually. Town buddying is a classic fuzzy tactic, IIRC from before my hiatus.

But I'm apt to leave my vote where it is right now, because Eevee's PR, if town, could be anything, whereas Ash's PR, if town, is admittedly negative utility. Being as it's day 1, I'd rather champion the low-risk lynch.

Why would you champion a mislynch on purpose, though?  Wouldn't you prefer to look for scum?

I mean, if I'm lynched, it's definitely okay for town, as far as relative powers go.  I'm not so okay with it though, given I'm town, and I really don't want to be out of my only game so fast.

Has everyone posted that's in this game?

Ugh. I hate this willful misreading, which I have seen many times before.

OUT OF TWO EQUALLY GOOD LYNCHES, from my perspective, I would choose Ash OVER EEVEE because, per his claim, IF I'M WRONG (which obviously I don't think I am) then it is better for town than if I were wrong about Eevee. That is all I was saying.

I find it hard to believe we'd be in a situation where there are two lynches that are exactly equal.  However, if you were choosing between a mislynch of town!ash and a mislynch of town!Eevee, given what you know about me, it may make sense that you'd prefer to lynch me since at worst you already know what you would be losing, but Eevee might be some super awesome role.

I think that's what you meant.

It's better to paint it in a ridiculous way though, so you can overreact like you did and give us more with which to read you.  Thanks for the fake-frustration allcaps barrage, though.  Good times!

[EFHW]

I promise you, I neither made a mistake nor did something antitown.

This post makes me think that ashersky, no matter which alignment he is, has not revealed the whole truth to us. Is is only left to decide for us whether he is lying scum or lying town.

Not revealing the whole truth is not the same as lying.  He already said there were things he wasn't saying, and that seems like the right approach, don't you think?  Fullclaiming now is not a good plan.

[ashersky]

to read that as "willfully championing a mislynch" is the worst kind of putting words in someone's mouth.

The worst kind?  Really?  You can't think of a worse situation where someone puts words in someone's mouth?  Like, what if I cut up cockroach corpses into the shapes of words?  That would definitely be worse.  Or what if quotes were misattributed to you in a national newspaper and it cost you the election?  That would be worse.

I think this was the worst kind of hyperbole ever in the history of time.

[EFHW]

I find it hard to believe we'd be in a situation where there are two lynches that are exactly equal.  However, if you were choosing between a mislynch of town!ash and a mislynch of town!Eevee, given what you know about me, it may make sense that you'd prefer to lynch me since at worst you already know what you would be losing, but Eevee might be some super awesome role.

I think that's what you meant.

It's better to paint it in a ridiculous way though, so you can overreact like you did and give us more with which to read you.  Thanks for the fake-frustration allcaps barrage, though.  Good times!

What was an overreaction on joth's part?  Being misrepresented in a game like this requires immediate attention, and whispering certainly doesn't work. 

And then you say his frustration is fake.  So which is it?  Overreaction or fake reaction?  You can't have it both ways.

[ashersky]

Towny read on walrus so far.  Sounds like regular walrus.  Granted, he could fake it as scum, but I expect there to be a bit of a titter in his giggle when he's scum.

EFHW is her calm, cool, collected IC-sounding self.  Which is scary, since she's scary good as scum.  But anyway, helpful and towny on D1.  She's quickly joining the yuma club of "always keep her around until at least D2 because whether town or scum, she'll make D1 better."

Inactivity is bad news bears for X and Arch.

[ashersky]

And then you say his frustration is fake.  So which is it?  Overreaction or fake reaction?  You can't have it both ways.

Sorry, fake overreaction.  He couldn't possibly have been as pissed off as he acted.

[yuma]

Vote Count 1.3

ashersky (1): Archetype
Voltaire (2): ashersky, Walrus
Archetype (1): Eevee
Eevee (1): xeiron
jotheonah (1): faust
faust (1): jotheonah

Not Voting (2): EFHW, Voltaire

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

The deadline for Day1 is 8 days. Day1 will end on Tuesday February 4 at 7:30 pm forum time.

[Archetype]

I like this, actually. Town buddying is a classic fuzzy tactic, IIRC from before my hiatus.

But I'm apt to leave my vote where it is right now, because Eevee's PR, if town, could be anything, whereas Ash's PR, if town, is admittedly negative utility. Being as it's day 1, I'd rather champion the low-risk lynch.

Why would you champion a mislynch on purpose, though?  Wouldn't you prefer to look for scum?

I mean, if I'm lynched, it's definitely okay for town, as far as relative powers go.  I'm not so okay with it though, given I'm town, and I really don't want to be out of my only game so fast.

Has everyone posted that's in this game?

Ugh. I hate this willful misreading, which I have seen many times before.

OUT OF TWO EQUALLY GOOD LYNCHES, from my perspective, I would choose Ash OVER EEVEE because, per his claim, IF I'M WRONG (which obviously I don't think I am) then it is better for town than if I were wrong about Eevee. That is all I was saying.

Strongly agree with Jo here. I'd want to lynch Ash because he's basically a VT at this point which is potentially better than losing a Stronger PR from a different player. Towny read on jo.

I forgot who brought up Town lying, but I'm OK with it as long as you dont fake an investigation result. If ash brought it up, Multiple FOS: him since he could be scum who could use the excuse of lying to get himself off the chopping block if needs be.

[faust]

While I theoretically agree, there's not really much to look at. And I am not yet at the point where I'm calling for a lurker lynch. I have found nothing particularly scummy in any player's posts so far.

"I find no one scummy, so I will vote for an active poster arbitrarily"

Vote: faust

Well, that's not the case. The one scummy thing that happened up to now was you putting ashersky at L-1. Also I find the whole attitude of "let's end D1 as quickly as possible and just do the easy lynch" a bit suspicious. So yes, I find you a bit scummy.

[EFHW]

And then you say his frustration is fake.  So which is it?  Overreaction or fake reaction?  You can't have it both ways.

Sorry, fake overreaction.  He couldn't possibly have been as pissed off as he acted.

So joth, how mad were you?

[EFHW]

Because of the possibility that ash has some sort of secret plan going, I would like to not lynch him today.

I don't think ash's claim gets him a pass.  I don't think there is more to come, and I'm kind of surprised, you seem less clean in your thinking than usual.  I guess you can't have a pps time-travel epiphany every day, huh?

[jotheonah]

And then you say his frustration is fake.  So which is it?  Overreaction or fake reaction?  You can't have it both ways.

Sorry, fake overreaction.  He couldn't possibly have been as pissed off as he acted.

So joth, how mad were you?

When I play these games, I'm like very good at compartmentalizing my emotions. How mad was I IRL? Negligibly. How mad was I in the game? Well, more frustrated than mad. And mid-level frustrated.

What purpose would a calculated fake overreaction serve scum!joth here anyway?

[faust]

Because of the possibility that ash has some sort of secret plan going, I would like to not lynch him today.

I don't think ash's claim gets him a pass.  I don't think there is more to come, and I'm kind of surprised, you seem less clean in your thinking than usual.  I guess you can't have a pps time-travel epiphany every day, huh?

Well, yes, I went a little back and forth with how I stand towards ash. First I thought: VT claim, lynch him! But then, this is ash we're talking about. I do not think he would just claim VT without having something in mind. And honestly, I would like to see it play out. Now I understand people who want to lynch ash for his claim, and if he ends up being the lynch, I would not be terribly unhappy. I just don't think the "lynch him because we're not losing a PR" line of thoughts really applies here.

[Voltaire]

More certain ash is scum. Unfortunately the reasons relate to an ongoing game.

Just noticed this.  You realize I'm not in any ongoing games?

Yes you are.

[Voltaire]

Challenge: ashersky

I'm a Gladiator with a twist. Part of that is that it's compulsive. Compulsive D1 gladiator is crazily anti-town. This is why I do not believe that ash has an anti-town role that he can voluntarily skip. Plus, a reason I can't discuss.

I debated going with a lurker or waiting longer, but I don't want to drag out this day any longer since I knew I would have to turn it around at some point. Plus my faith in lurker lynches is a bit low right now.

[Voltaire]

If I am right about ash, I highly doubt Eevee is his partner. Knowing ash would be doing this gambit, I would expect his partner to come out against it (as in be one of the "you claimed VT!" people).

[faust]

Challenge: ashersky

I'm a Gladiator with a twist. Part of that is that it's compulsive. Compulsive D1 gladiator is crazily anti-town. This is why I do not believe that ash has an anti-town role that he can voluntarily skip. Plus, a reason I can't discuss.

I debated going with a lurker or waiting longer, but I don't want to drag out this day any longer since I knew I would have to turn it around at some point. Plus my faith in lurker lynches is a bit low right now.

Ugh, so what do you think? ashersky just claimed something he knew he would get heavy suspicion for for no reason? Why did you not claim this before choosing your challengee?

Vote: Voltaire

[faust]

Well, this is not too bad, I guess. Now we have to choose between a claimed VT and a claimed anti-town role? Things could be worse.

[Voltaire]

Because I didn't want scum biasing who/what I would chose. Believe me, I've been thinking about this all game and I decided it was best to keep quiet.

Yeah, he claims it, gets suspicion, then everything is fine. I didn't realize it matched RMM12 until it was pointed out. The big reason is that there's just no way there's an anti-town role you can just give up (not with my role). If I'm horribly wrong about this it's not the worst because Reasons.

[faust]

Voltaire, are you a compulsive Gladiator every Day?