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[pingpongsam]

Will post setup stuff later.

Is it later yet? I'm about to go to bed, but hopefully by the time I'm awake again, you and LL will have posted lots of lovely setup thoughts. Shame there's no Calamitas this game to want to talk about setup theory. At least there's still PPS, though!

My personal pre-game thoughts were limited to hoping not to be scum in the compulsive visitor setup, since that sounded like a tough one. The dayvig one is a neat concept, and would make us a convenient IC if it happens... all my Werewolf experience prior to coming to f.ds to play mafia was with dayvigs, but we tended to put in one of each alignment precisely to prevent the IC-ification thing.

Also: no vote for WW??

Ok, so I stopped voting for WW every RVS because someone says it's boring and apparently I'm self-conscious.

So, I think I have a scheme for the rolecop to be able to claim his results every day, but so that he is also able to hide.  This is important if the rolecop dies, people will be able to look at his results.  So, for this to work, at the beginning of every day, each person posts something to the effect of "if I were a rolecop, I would've investigated [person] and gotten [result]".  This way, scum can't know for sure who the rolecop is, but even if they die, their results will be meaningful.

I also talked in the setup QT about how the rolecop should claim in 50% of the setups because it is a little bit like follow-the-cop.  In the last two setups this is true.  In the first two setups, there is enough going on that it is probably better for the rolecop to stay silent, but maybe not enough to not claim.  What do people think about that?

I think you clearly read the setup.

I helped design the setup!

Not sure if joke went over head or if explaining joke to make funnier.

[SpaceAnemone]

Not sure if joke went over head or if explaining joke to make funnier.

In order to fully explain gkreig's explanation of your joke, you really have to go and read the setup, though. What did you make of it?

[AndrewisFTTW]

[Not game related]

I decided to read through M88 and found this:

Like, where did AndrewisFTTW go is my question?

e missed me! 

[Game related]

Ok I'm awake

Ok, so I stopped voting for WW every RVS because someone says it's boring and apparently I'm self-conscious.

You know what's even more boring? Voting for me, ever! You've done it so many times, and gotten me mislynched so many times that there's just no novelty value in it any more... :-P

vote: Space

(This vote is not strictly because he said not to, kinda.)

[AndrewisFTTW]

Hey Jake I'm a Nats fan. Bring it.

[LaLight]

[Not game related]

I decided to read through M88 and found this:

Like, where did AndrewisFTTW go is my question?

e missed me! 

[Game related]

Ok I'm awake

Ok, so I stopped voting for WW every RVS because someone says it's boring and apparently I'm self-conscious.

You know what's even more boring? Voting for me, ever! You've done it so many times, and gotten me mislynched so many times that there's just no novelty value in it any more... :-P

vote: Space

(This vote is not strictly because he said not to, kinda.)

Space is using "they" as a pronoun, or "she"

And also lately after some games I believe Space is town after these words. Fits into town meta in some way

[LaLight]

As I am not a huge fan of RVS, missing it completely seems weird. vote: Joseph

I actually do have some mild scumreads on this point which makes me glad. Maybe I am becoming a better player? Joseph is one of them.

[gkrieg13]

Okay, I maybe have read your thoughts not really carefully, but claiming is good only if we at 5th setup. If we are at 6th it is better to claim later so rc will have some result till then

But to kill the rolecop in 6, scum has to give up a person to the watcher.

That's true. But they won't have a choice, really, it's better to give up a person than to keep rc alive. So they will kill rc anyway although we can make rc even more useful by waiting for D2 to claim. Or even if we lynch scum D1 that would be just awesome

I disagree about scum killing the RC in 6. I think they both want to stay alive for as long as possible. Also, this just occurred to me: in 6 both scum are goons and will give the RC vanilla results which renders the RC's night action practically useless. Claiming would make him an IC I guess, but we wouldn't know for sure we were in 6. [insert more useless speculation]

Again, I don't know if it's worth taking the chance even if we knew there was a RC in this game. Ultimately it's up to the RC if there is one.

It's not Vanilla Cop, it's Rolecop. He will have the result "goon"

Possible scum slip here.

[Joseph2302]

As I am not a huge fan of RVS, missing it completely seems weird. vote: Joseph

I actually do have some mild scumreads on this point which makes me glad. Maybe I am becoming a better player? Joseph is one of them.

Scum reading me is such a rookie error.
I've been scum like 4 times out of 20-25 games.
And I always get early mislynched

[gkrieg13]

Ok, so I stopped voting for WW every RVS because someone says it's boring and apparently I'm self-conscious.

You know what's even more boring? Voting for me, ever! You've done it so many times, and gotten me mislynched so many times that there's just no novelty value in it any more... :-P

But you're always bad.......

Hey, my play may be questionable sometimes, but I've almost never been scum!

Except all the times I thought you were scum!

[gkrieg13]

Okay, I maybe have read your thoughts not really carefully, but claiming is good only if we at 5th setup. If we are at 6th it is better to claim later so rc will have some result till then

But to kill the rolecop in 6, scum has to give up a person to the watcher.

That's true. But they won't have a choice, really, it's better to give up a person than to keep rc alive. So they will kill rc anyway although we can make rc even more useful by waiting for D2 to claim. Or even if we lynch scum D1 that would be just awesome

I disagree about scum killing the RC in 6. I think they both want to stay alive for as long as possible. Also, this just occurred to me: in 6 both scum are goons and will give the RC vanilla results which renders the RC's night action practically useless. Claiming would make him an IC I guess, but we wouldn't know for sure we were in 6. [insert more useless speculation]

Again, I don't know if it's worth taking the chance even if we knew there was a RC in this game. Ultimately it's up to the RC if there is one.

It's not Vanilla Cop, it's Rolecop. He will have the result "goon"

Possible scum slip here.

Actually vote: LaLight

[LaLight]

Okay, I maybe have read your thoughts not really carefully, but claiming is good only if we at 5th setup. If we are at 6th it is better to claim later so rc will have some result till then

But to kill the rolecop in 6, scum has to give up a person to the watcher.

That's true. But they won't have a choice, really, it's better to give up a person than to keep rc alive. So they will kill rc anyway although we can make rc even more useful by waiting for D2 to claim. Or even if we lynch scum D1 that would be just awesome

I disagree about scum killing the RC in 6. I think they both want to stay alive for as long as possible. Also, this just occurred to me: in 6 both scum are goons and will give the RC vanilla results which renders the RC's night action practically useless. Claiming would make him an IC I guess, but we wouldn't know for sure we were in 6. [insert more useless speculation]

Again, I don't know if it's worth taking the chance even if we knew there was a RC in this game. Ultimately it's up to the RC if there is one.

It's not Vanilla Cop, it's Rolecop. He will have the result "goon"

Possible scum slip here.

What scumslip? It was a mistake. Pronoun was a mistake too

PPE: 1

[LaLight]

Okay, I maybe have read your thoughts not really carefully, but claiming is good only if we at 5th setup. If we are at 6th it is better to claim later so rc will have some result till then

But to kill the rolecop in 6, scum has to give up a person to the watcher.

That's true. But they won't have a choice, really, it's better to give up a person than to keep rc alive. So they will kill rc anyway although we can make rc even more useful by waiting for D2 to claim. Or even if we lynch scum D1 that would be just awesome

I disagree about scum killing the RC in 6. I think they both want to stay alive for as long as possible. Also, this just occurred to me: in 6 both scum are goons and will give the RC vanilla results which renders the RC's night action practically useless. Claiming would make him an IC I guess, but we wouldn't know for sure we were in 6. [insert more useless speculation]

Again, I don't know if it's worth taking the chance even if we knew there was a RC in this game. Ultimately it's up to the RC if there is one.

It's not Vanilla Cop, it's Rolecop. He will have the result "goon"

Possible scum slip here.

Actually vote: LaLight

Whatever you use to think i am scum doesn't work here. I am really finally town, give me time to get used to it again

[LaLight]

As I am not a huge fan of RVS, missing it completely seems weird. vote: Joseph

I actually do have some mild scumreads on this point which makes me glad. Maybe I am becoming a better player? Joseph is one of them.

Scum reading me is such a rookie error.
I've been scum like 4 times out of 20-25 games.
And I always get early mislynched

This does not mean you can't be scum in this very game. As little as I know about probability theories, I can say that for sure.

[AndrewisFTTW]

I think we've heard from everyone except Robz. So let's talk about how nobody likes RVS and how we somewhat moved out of it almost immediately thanks to gkrieg. Not everyone has weighed in on whether the RC should claim if we have one. What do you think pps? And whose analysis did you/everyone find the scummiest?

Wow straight into the setup talk.
That's unusual.
I'll try and contribute today, although my time management skills are poor.

I found Joseph's response a little weird. He feels obligated to contribute something instead of simply responding to what was posted even though we pretty much beat it to death right away (at least that's how I feel about it). Although coming from Joseph I don't think that's much of a tell.

And then this:

Okay, I maybe have read your thoughts not really carefully, but claiming is good only if we at 5th setup. If we are at 6th it is better to claim later so rc will have some result till then

But to kill the rolecop in 6, scum has to give up a person to the watcher.

That's true. But they won't have a choice, really, it's better to give up a person than to keep rc alive. So they will kill rc anyway although we can make rc even more useful by waiting for D2 to claim. Or even if we lynch scum D1 that would be just awesome

I disagree about scum killing the RC in 6. I think they both want to stay alive for as long as possible. Also, this just occurred to me: in 6 both scum are goons and will give the RC vanilla results which renders the RC's night action practically useless. Claiming would make him an IC I guess, but we wouldn't know for sure we were in 6. [insert more useless speculation]

Again, I don't know if it's worth taking the chance even if we knew there was a RC in this game. Ultimately it's up to the RC if there is one.

It's not Vanilla Cop, it's Rolecop. He will have the result "goon"

If you look at the PM for the rolecop that schadd posted, it specifically says goon and vts will both give the result "vanilla" to the cop. So rc can't determine between vt and goon actually.  Which leads me to believe that in setup 6 scum would just ignore the cop if he claims and so if the watcher watched the cop, they would never see anything, because the cop is essentially useless in that setup except to be an IC and WIFOM watcher target.

Is scum!LL more like to miss this than town!LL? Even after assisting with the setup? I find it somewhat towny. Scum would double check everything they posted is correct I think.

EDIT: ninja'd a little bit.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Okay, I maybe have read your thoughts not really carefully, but claiming is good only if we at 5th setup. If we are at 6th it is better to claim later so rc will have some result till then

But to kill the rolecop in 6, scum has to give up a person to the watcher.

That's true. But they won't have a choice, really, it's better to give up a person than to keep rc alive. So they will kill rc anyway although we can make rc even more useful by waiting for D2 to claim. Or even if we lynch scum D1 that would be just awesome

I disagree about scum killing the RC in 6. I think they both want to stay alive for as long as possible. Also, this just occurred to me: in 6 both scum are goons and will give the RC vanilla results which renders the RC's night action practically useless. Claiming would make him an IC I guess, but we wouldn't know for sure we were in 6. [insert more useless speculation]

Again, I don't know if it's worth taking the chance even if we knew there was a RC in this game. Ultimately it's up to the RC if there is one.

It's not Vanilla Cop, it's Rolecop. He will have the result "goon"

Possible scum slip here.

Actually vote: LaLight

Really? After working with him on the setup you think scum!LL would miss something like this or pretend to miss it for some reason?

[LaLight]

Well, I don't think it was mentioned in the setup tell that Rolecop is actually half role half vanilla. Or it was and I missed it completely

[gkrieg13]

Okay, I maybe have read your thoughts not really carefully, but claiming is good only if we at 5th setup. If we are at 6th it is better to claim later so rc will have some result till then

But to kill the rolecop in 6, scum has to give up a person to the watcher.

That's true. But they won't have a choice, really, it's better to give up a person than to keep rc alive. So they will kill rc anyway although we can make rc even more useful by waiting for D2 to claim. Or even if we lynch scum D1 that would be just awesome

I disagree about scum killing the RC in 6. I think they both want to stay alive for as long as possible. Also, this just occurred to me: in 6 both scum are goons and will give the RC vanilla results which renders the RC's night action practically useless. Claiming would make him an IC I guess, but we wouldn't know for sure we were in 6. [insert more useless speculation]

Again, I don't know if it's worth taking the chance even if we knew there was a RC in this game. Ultimately it's up to the RC if there is one.

It's not Vanilla Cop, it's Rolecop. He will have the result "goon"

Possible scum slip here.

Actually vote: LaLight

Really? After working with him on the setup you think scum!LL would miss something like this or pretend to miss it for some reason?

It's pronoun stuff, not what the cop gets as a result stuff

[gkrieg13]

Okay, I maybe have read your thoughts not really carefully, but claiming is good only if we at 5th setup. If we are at 6th it is better to claim later so rc will have some result till then

But to kill the rolecop in 6, scum has to give up a person to the watcher.

That's true. But they won't have a choice, really, it's better to give up a person than to keep rc alive. So they will kill rc anyway although we can make rc even more useful by waiting for D2 to claim. Or even if we lynch scum D1 that would be just awesome

I disagree about scum killing the RC in 6. I think they both want to stay alive for as long as possible. Also, this just occurred to me: in 6 both scum are goons and will give the RC vanilla results which renders the RC's night action practically useless. Claiming would make him an IC I guess, but we wouldn't know for sure we were in 6. [insert more useless speculation]

Again, I don't know if it's worth taking the chance even if we knew there was a RC in this game. Ultimately it's up to the RC if there is one.

It's not Vanilla Cop, it's Rolecop. He will have the result "goon"

Possible scum slip here.

What scumslip? It was a mistake. Pronoun was a mistake too

PPE: 1

And the fact that he knows it was the pronoun is even more telling.

[LaLight]

The word cop (коп) in russian is strictly masculine and again I feel ashamed for that. But yeah, I would see that as a scumslip myself too. Still truth is what I said

[AndrewisFTTW]

As I am not a huge fan of RVS, missing it completely seems weird. vote: Joseph

I actually do have some mild scumreads on this point which makes me glad. Maybe I am becoming a better player? Joseph is one of them.

Scum reading me is such a rookie error.
I've been scum like 4 times out of 20-25 games.
And I always get early mislynched

This is what you say if you want to keep getting early mislynched.

Okay, I maybe have read your thoughts not really carefully, but claiming is good only if we at 5th setup. If we are at 6th it is better to claim later so rc will have some result till then

But to kill the rolecop in 6, scum has to give up a person to the watcher.

That's true. But they won't have a choice, really, it's better to give up a person than to keep rc alive. So they will kill rc anyway although we can make rc even more useful by waiting for D2 to claim. Or even if we lynch scum D1 that would be just awesome

I disagree about scum killing the RC in 6. I think they both want to stay alive for as long as possible. Also, this just occurred to me: in 6 both scum are goons and will give the RC vanilla results which renders the RC's night action practically useless. Claiming would make him an IC I guess, but we wouldn't know for sure we were in 6. [insert more useless speculation]

Again, I don't know if it's worth taking the chance even if we knew there was a RC in this game. Ultimately it's up to the RC if there is one.

It's not Vanilla Cop, it's Rolecop. He will have the result "goon"

Possible scum slip here.

Actually vote: LaLight

Really? After working with him on the setup you think scum!LL would miss something like this or pretend to miss it for some reason?

It's pronoun stuff, not what the cop gets as a result stuff

So you think he's scum because he said:

It's not Vanilla Cop, it's Rolecop. He will have the result "goon"

What do you find scummy here? That he knows the correct name of the role?

[LaLight]

yeah, I have reread and noticed the pronoun

ppe

[LaLight]

Andrew, that I said "he will receive" so I supposedly know the gender of the rolecop

[LaLight]

Wait

[LaLight]

How is that scumslip?! Rolecop is town role!

[LaLight]

Or I don't get something. gkrieg, elaborate please