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welcome to M97: schadnd II mafia
this game will use schadd7, a semi-open generally-normal invented setup for 9 players.
mod: schadd
setup assistance from: gkrieg13, LaLight
spectatingfriends: Roadrunner7671, 2.71828..., ashersky, Calamitas
playingfriends:
1. pingpongsam lynched d1; vt
2. Joseph2302 lynched d4; vt
3. JaketheBaseballGod22 killed n2; 2shotdoc
4. Robz888 endgamed; vt
5. Dylan32 lynched d2; maff tracker
6. gkrieg13 killed n3; rolecop
7. LaLight killed n1; vt
8. SpaceAnemone lynched d3; vt
9. AndrewisFTTW survived; goon
maaaaaafiaaaaa wins
game state:
D1 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17084.msg684530#msg684530) --- end
(http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17084.msg685030#msg685030)D2 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17084.msg685186#msg685186) --- end (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17084.msg686088#msg686088)
D3 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17084.msg686406#msg686406) --- end (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17084.msg687894#msg687894)
D4 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17084.msg688369#msg688369) --- end (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17084.msg688452#msg688452)
The Rules:
The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.
The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved in the order they are received.
5. All night actions must be submitted within 24 hours of day ending.
6. Players must post once every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between a lynch being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the lynched player.
11. Dead players may not post in thread or QT, except their Role QT. A lynched player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
12. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.
The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambigiuous nicknames are acceptable, or any string that uniquely identifies a user. Note that the point of voting is, in fact, unambiguity, and attempting to make it unclear to other players (or, of course, mods) which user you are voting for is very ill-advised.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: unvote or Unvote: Playername.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may vote: no lynch.
5. Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.
6. If a majority lynch is not reached by the Day's deadline, no lynch occurs.
The Rest:
1. Bold, aquamarine text is reserved for the mod. Players may not use it.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the Mod via PM. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
6. One prod will be issued after 48 hours without posting in the game thread. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after one prod.
7. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.
8. Each player will receive their own QT, regardless of role. Don't quote from it.
9. If the game goes on for 3 days and 3 nights without a lynch or nightkill, town wins.
Deadlines:
1. Days will last seven IRL days.
2. Nights will last two IRL days.
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as i think i said at some point, this game will use schadd7. this setup involves me randomly selecting one of 7 pre-made setups to use for the game. it's like matrix6 but without all that matrix nonsense.
1. jailkeeper, dayvig, 5 VTs ; JOAT (1-shot strongman/roleblocker), goon
2. rolecop, jailkeeper, 5 VTs ; roleblocker, goon
3. rolecop, 2-shot doctor, jailkeeper, 4 VTs ; roleblocker, roleblocker
4. 2-shot doctor, tracker, 5 VTs ; compulsive visitor, goon
5. 2-shot doctor, rolecop, 5 VTs ; tracker, goon
6. rolecop, watcher, 5 VTs ; goon, goon
7. watcher, tracker, 5 VTs ; 1-shot ninja, goon
clarifications
-one mafia may perform the factional kill and use a power role in the same night. if they use both on the same target, it will be clear to watchers and trackers that they targeted someone twice.
-both VTs and goons will give a result of "vanilla" to the rolecop.
-if a jailkeeper targets a scum roleblocker, who in turn roleblocks the jailkeeper while performing the kill, the kill goes through.
ugly role PMs, with flavor redacted
veetee
you are a vanilla townie. you have no special night actions.
you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
dayvig
you are a town day vigilante. once, during the day, you may say “dayvig: [player]” in the game thread to kill a player. this causes the targeted player to die and flip as though they were lynched or killed during the night. this does not cause the Day to end; rather, 1 day is added to the deadline and everyone unvotes.
you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
rolecop
you are a town rolecop. each night, you may target a player and become informed of what their role is. both vanilla townies and mafia goons will give the result “vanilla.” if you are roleblocked, you will receive “no result.”
you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
tracker
you are a town tracker. each night, you may target a player and learn whom, if anybody, they targeted with an ability. if you are roleblocked, you will receive “no result.”
you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
2-shot doctor
you are a town 2-shot doctor. twice, at night, you may target another player to protect them from a kill that happens that night.
you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
watcher
you are a town watcher. each night, you may target a player to learn who, if anybody, targeted that player. if you are roleblocked, you will receive “no result.”
you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
jailkeeper
you are a town jailkeeper. each night, you may simultaneously protect them from one kill at night, and prevent their abilities from working.
you win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
goon
you are a mafia goon. each night, you may perform your team's factional kill, but otherwise you have no special abilities.
you win when all town-aligned players are dead, or nothing can prevent this from happening.
compulsive visitor
you are a mafia compulsive visitor. each night, you must choose someone to visit; this action has no effect, but watchers and ttackers will know you did it. you may also perform your team's factional kill.
you win when all town-aligned players are dead, or nothing can prevent this from happening.
roleblocker
you are a mafia roleblocker. each night, you may target someone to prevent their abilities from working. you may also perform your team's factional kill; you may do both on the same night.
you win when all town-aligned players are dead, or nothing can prevent this from happening.
joat
you are a mafia JOAT. each night, in addition to being able to perform the factional kill, you may use one of two bonus abilities:
-strongman: if you use this while performing the factional kill, it will pierce through one protection from a doctor or a jailkeeper.
-roleblocker: target someone to prevent their abilities from working.
you may only use each one once, but you may use them in addition to performing the factional kill.
you win when all town-aligned players are dead, or nothing can prevent this from happening.
1-shot ninja
you are a mafia 1-shot ninja. once, at night, you may decide to use your ninja ability; if you do, and use your team’s factional nightkill, it will seem as though you hadn’t targeted anyone to watchers and trackers.
you win when all town-aligned players are dead, or nothing can prevent this from happening.
i would request that the setup not be discussed in thread prior to game start. if you have found some glaring, significant balance issue that we all missed, please PM me.
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the theme of this game is schadnd II: the efforts of the weird and gross bad guys to use espionage and stuff to subvert the forces of good, wholesome censorship
the mafia team will be told the flavor names of the 2-3 town roles possible in the setup (which will be immediately apparent at N0). every VT will have the same flavor name, which is "bathroom hacker"
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/in
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/tag
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/tag
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/in I guess, as I'm not in any other games
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/in I guess, as I'm not in any other games
That is not how you do it at all. You want circular hip motion and some suggestive air smacking when you /in.
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/in I guess, as I'm not in any other games
That is not how you do it at all. You want circular hip motion and some suggestive air smacking when you /in.
Vote: PPS
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Request: Vote Count
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/in #1 was fun I'll try #2
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/in
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/comod
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/in
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I got a permission to /in
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let's just hope I am not scum in this game.
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/in
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I got a permission to /in
Lol, who do you ask permission off?
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I got a permission to /in
Lol, who do you ask permission off?
schadd. i helped him a little to create the setup
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/in?
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yes
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/in
Let's do the mafia.
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cool nice. i see no reason not to start N1 tonightish
i will think of some way to nullify the advantage gk & lalight have; i might publicize the setup discussion QT, or parts of it
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N0*
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cool nice. i see no reason not to start N1 tonightish
i will think of some way to nullify the advantage gk & lalight have; i might publicize the setup discussion QT, or parts of it
The only advantage that we have is that we have discussed the setup with each other, which will most likely happen in the thread anyway. I would say the advantage is that we have thought about the setup, which shouldn't really be an advantage, because it is something that we could have done when we signed up for the game.
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I got a permission to /in
Lol, who do you ask permission off?
schadd. i helped him a little to create the setup
I thought maybe you had to ask your mother or girlfriend if they'd allow you to play
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cool nice. i see no reason not to start N1 tonightish
i will think of some way to nullify the advantage gk & lalight have; i might publicize the setup discussion QT, or parts of it
The only advantage that we have is that we have discussed the setup with each other, which will most likely happen in the thread anyway. I would say the advantage is that we have thought about the setup, which shouldn't really be an advantage, because it is something that we could have done when we signed up for the game.
what i'm more concerned about is that lalight knows what your setup thoughts/plans are, since the QT wasn't colored by alignment. this setup doesn't have a lot of fancy play i think but it's still a weird thing. what i might just do is delete the thread do lal can't look at it
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I got a permission to /in
Lol, who do you ask permission off?
schadd. i helped him a little to create the setup
I thought maybe you had to ask your mother or girlfriend if they'd allow you to play
They don't know and don't tell!
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cool nice. i see no reason not to start N1 tonightish
i will think of some way to nullify the advantage gk & lalight have; i might publicize the setup discussion QT, or parts of it
The only advantage that we have is that we have discussed the setup with each other, which will most likely happen in the thread anyway. I would say the advantage is that we have thought about the setup, which shouldn't really be an advantage, because it is something that we could have done when we signed up for the game.
what i'm more concerned about is that lalight knows what your setup thoughts/plans are, since the QT wasn't colored by alignment. this setup doesn't have a lot of fancy play i think but it's still a weird thing. what i might just do is delete the thread do lal can't look at it
Just copied into the notebook haha
To be serious, i've read it couple of times
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And i personally ask to not call me lal. Thanks :)
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cool nice. i see no reason not to start N1 tonightish
i will think of some way to nullify the advantage gk & lalight have; i might publicize the setup discussion QT, or parts of it
The only advantage that we have is that we have discussed the setup with each other, which will most likely happen in the thread anyway. I would say the advantage is that we have thought about the setup, which shouldn't really be an advantage, because it is something that we could have done when we signed up for the game.
what i'm more concerned about is that lalight knows what your setup thoughts/plans are, since the QT wasn't colored by alignment. this setup doesn't have a lot of fancy play i think but it's still a weird thing. what i might just do is delete the thread do lal can't look at it
Eh, I don't really care if he looks at it. I'm not even sure if what I proposed is the optimal play! Maybe I knew I would play the setup and was just messing with LaLight!!!
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cool nice. i see no reason not to start N1 tonightish
i will think of some way to nullify the advantage gk & lalight have; i might publicize the setup discussion QT, or parts of it
The only advantage that we have is that we have discussed the setup with each other, which will most likely happen in the thread anyway. I would say the advantage is that we have thought about the setup, which shouldn't really be an advantage, because it is something that we could have done when we signed up for the game.
what i'm more concerned about is that lalight knows what your setup thoughts/plans are, since the QT wasn't colored by alignment. this setup doesn't have a lot of fancy play i think but it's still a weird thing. what i might just do is delete the thread do lal can't look at it
Eh, I don't really care if he looks at it. I'm not even sure if what I proposed is the optimal play! Maybe I knew I would play the setup and was just messing with LaLight!!!
ain't gonna be scum again
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yeah it's looking more and more like i i don't need to do anything, esp. if fellow players don't have an issue. i'll look back at the QT later
And i personally ask to not call me lal. Thanks :)
hm. i've generally defaulted to using the first three characters of the username as a nickname, like fau and spa. i always felt odd about "ll" so i guess i still have to start adressing you by your full name, lark oil lamp
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yeah it's looking more and more like i i don't need to do anything, esp. if fellow players don't have an issue. i'll look back at the QT later
And i personally ask to not call me lal. Thanks :)
hm. i've generally defaulted to using the first three characters of the username as a nickname, like fau and spa. i always felt odd about "ll" so i guess i still have to start adressing you by your full name, lark oil lamp
Any nickname you want except this one. You may go with lol
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yeah it's looking more and more like i i don't need to do anything, esp. if fellow players don't have an issue. i'll look back at the QT later
And i personally ask to not call me lal. Thanks :)
hm. i've generally defaulted to using the first three characters of the username as a nickname, like fau and spa. i always felt odd about "ll" so i guess i still have to start adressing you by your full name, lark oil lamp
Any nickname you want except this one. You may go with lol
Does that mean I can call you LoLight?
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Run, LoLight, Run
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yeah it's looking more and more like i i don't need to do anything, esp. if fellow players don't have an issue. i'll look back at the QT later
And i personally ask to not call me lal. Thanks :)
hm. i've generally defaulted to using the first three characters of the username as a nickname, like fau and spa. i always felt odd about "ll" so i guess i still have to start adressing you by your full name, lark oil lamp
Any nickname you want except this one. You may go with lol
Does that mean I can call you LoLight?
Actually, yeah, why not. As long as it is obvious you are talking about me i am fine with any nickname. Except lal
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lolighta?
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Lslight?
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Lslight?
Lllllhl
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thread locked except for tags. sending out the peems
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peems out. let me know if i sent you the wrong pm or accidentally emailed the social security numbers of the scumteam to your grandma
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/tag
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Tag
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D1 will start tomorrow at 9pm forum time.
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D1 will start tomorrow at 9pm forum time.
Awesome, right when I go to bed.
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D1 will start tomorrow at 9pm forum time.
Awesome, right when I go to bed.
Apologies, missed the lock. Please don't modkill me.
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Please don't modkill me.
i'll see what i can do
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oh incidentally all VTs are called "bathroom hacker"
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/tag
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i will start this a few hours earlier since everyone has confirmed & i'll be around
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alrighty, ragtag bunch of loyal media purifiers, this is what you've all been training for. of all the various acts of sedition and filth and smash mouth that rapscallions have thrust hatefully unto society, we are encountering the worst thing ever: someone has edited a picture of the queen of gtiudria so as to suggest that she endorses the east-enn movement. HERESY! not that we have anything in particular against the enns, but we will not have the queen of our puppet nation be defamed like that. anyway, now that i've surely activated your secondary patriotism bladders, i have something important to tell you: the aforementioned rapscallions have rapsc-infiltrated the very force that has set out to bring their demise: us, the noble censors, espionage quenchers, vulgarity janitors. and if they manage to succeed, who knows what would happen next? billboards will be disfigured, political leaders will be misquoted in mass media, the FourChanimal might even be set out of its cage.
out of the 9 of you, 2 are aligned with this evil. you know what to do; break out your weird and cryptic investigative equipment, and start bathroom hacking.
may Moderatreion serve all of you, and good luck.
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Day 1 starts!
(http://wiki.mafiascum.net/images/d/d6/PhaseIcon%28Day%29.png)
Vote Count 1.0
not voting (9): pingpongsam, Joseph2302, JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888, Dylan32, gkrieg13, LaLight, SpaceAnemone, AndrewisFTTW.
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 starts now and ends Tuesday, March 28th at 5pm forum time.
thread unlocked
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vote: SA
Will post setup stuff later.
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I'm the SK
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vote: Joseph
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Vote: PPS
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Will post setup stuff later.
Is it later yet? I'm about to go to bed, but hopefully by the time I'm awake again, you and LL will have posted lots of lovely setup thoughts. Shame there's no Calamitas this game to want to talk about setup theory. At least there's still PPS, though!
My personal pre-game thoughts were limited to hoping not to be scum in the compulsive visitor setup, since that sounded like a tough one. The dayvig one is a neat concept, and would make us a convenient IC if it happens... all my Werewolf experience prior to coming to f.ds to play mafia was with dayvigs, but we tended to put in one of each alignment precisely to prevent the IC-ification thing.
Also: no vote for WW?? :o
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Will post setup stuff later.
Is it later yet? I'm about to go to bed, but hopefully by the time I'm awake again, you and LL will have posted lots of lovely setup thoughts. Shame there's no Calamitas this game to want to talk about setup theory. At least there's still PPS, though!
My personal pre-game thoughts were limited to hoping not to be scum in the compulsive visitor setup, since that sounded like a tough one. The dayvig one is a neat concept, and would make us a convenient IC if it happens... all my Werewolf experience prior to coming to f.ds to play mafia was with dayvigs, but we tended to put in one of each alignment precisely to prevent the IC-ification thing.
Also: no vote for WW?? :o
Sorry I'm not in the same time zone anymore so just getting off of work now.
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Vote: PPS
Agreed. So glad I finally drew scum. Now I can finally get a correct scum lynch.
Vote: PPS
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Apparently it's day 1 in the M97 zone. Cool. Nap time!
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Almost forgot!
vote: Steely Dan
Kay Bai!
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Will post setup stuff later.
Is it later yet? I'm about to go to bed, but hopefully by the time I'm awake again, you and LL will have posted lots of lovely setup thoughts. Shame there's no Calamitas this game to want to talk about setup theory. At least there's still PPS, though!
My personal pre-game thoughts were limited to hoping not to be scum in the compulsive visitor setup, since that sounded like a tough one. The dayvig one is a neat concept, and would make us a convenient IC if it happens... all my Werewolf experience prior to coming to f.ds to play mafia was with dayvigs, but we tended to put in one of each alignment precisely to prevent the IC-ification thing.
Also: no vote for WW?? :o
Ok, so I stopped voting for WW every RVS because someone says it's boring and apparently I'm self-conscious.
So, I think I have a scheme for the rolecop to be able to claim his results every day, but so that he is also able to hide. This is important if the rolecop dies, people will be able to look at his results. So, for this to work, at the beginning of every day, each person posts something to the effect of "if I were a rolecop, I would've investigated [person] and gotten [result]". This way, scum can't know for sure who the rolecop is, but even if they die, their results will be meaningful.
I also talked in the setup QT about how the rolecop should claim in 50% of the setups because it is a little bit like follow-the-cop. In the last two setups this is true. In the first two setups, there is enough going on that it is probably better for the rolecop to stay silent, but maybe not enough to not claim. What do people think about that?
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Will post setup stuff later.
Is it later yet? I'm about to go to bed, but hopefully by the time I'm awake again, you and LL will have posted lots of lovely setup thoughts. Shame there's no Calamitas this game to want to talk about setup theory. At least there's still PPS, though!
My personal pre-game thoughts were limited to hoping not to be scum in the compulsive visitor setup, since that sounded like a tough one. The dayvig one is a neat concept, and would make us a convenient IC if it happens... all my Werewolf experience prior to coming to f.ds to play mafia was with dayvigs, but we tended to put in one of each alignment precisely to prevent the IC-ification thing.
Also: no vote for WW?? :o
Ok, so I stopped voting for WW every RVS because someone says it's boring and apparently I'm self-conscious.
So, I think I have a scheme for the rolecop to be able to claim his results every day, but so that he is also able to hide. This is important if the rolecop dies, people will be able to look at his results. So, for this to work, at the beginning of every day, each person posts something to the effect of "if I were a rolecop, I would've investigated [person] and gotten [result]". This way, scum can't know for sure who the rolecop is, but even if they die, their results will be meaningful.
I also talked in the setup QT about how the rolecop should claim in 50% of the setups because it is a little bit like follow-the-cop. In the last two setups this is true. In the first two setups, there is enough going on that it is probably better for the rolecop to stay silent, but maybe not enough to not claim. What do people think about that?
I think you clearly read the setup.
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Will post setup stuff later.
Is it later yet? I'm about to go to bed, but hopefully by the time I'm awake again, you and LL will have posted lots of lovely setup thoughts. Shame there's no Calamitas this game to want to talk about setup theory. At least there's still PPS, though!
My personal pre-game thoughts were limited to hoping not to be scum in the compulsive visitor setup, since that sounded like a tough one. The dayvig one is a neat concept, and would make us a convenient IC if it happens... all my Werewolf experience prior to coming to f.ds to play mafia was with dayvigs, but we tended to put in one of each alignment precisely to prevent the IC-ification thing.
Also: no vote for WW?? :o
Ok, so I stopped voting for WW every RVS because someone says it's boring and apparently I'm self-conscious.
So, I think I have a scheme for the rolecop to be able to claim his results every day, but so that he is also able to hide. This is important if the rolecop dies, people will be able to look at his results. So, for this to work, at the beginning of every day, each person posts something to the effect of "if I were a rolecop, I would've investigated [person] and gotten [result]". This way, scum can't know for sure who the rolecop is, but even if they die, their results will be meaningful.
I also talked in the setup QT about how the rolecop should claim in 50% of the setups because it is a little bit like follow-the-cop. In the last two setups this is true. In the first two setups, there is enough going on that it is probably better for the rolecop to stay silent, but maybe not enough to not claim. What do people think about that?
I think you clearly read the setup.
I helped design the setup!
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Will post setup stuff later.
Is it later yet? I'm about to go to bed, but hopefully by the time I'm awake again, you and LL will have posted lots of lovely setup thoughts. Shame there's no Calamitas this game to want to talk about setup theory. At least there's still PPS, though!
My personal pre-game thoughts were limited to hoping not to be scum in the compulsive visitor setup, since that sounded like a tough one. The dayvig one is a neat concept, and would make us a convenient IC if it happens... all my Werewolf experience prior to coming to f.ds to play mafia was with dayvigs, but we tended to put in one of each alignment precisely to prevent the IC-ification thing.
Also: no vote for WW?? :o
Ok, so I stopped voting for WW every RVS because someone says it's boring and apparently I'm self-conscious.
So, I think I have a scheme for the rolecop to be able to claim his results every day, but so that he is also able to hide. This is important if the rolecop dies, people will be able to look at his results. So, for this to work, at the beginning of every day, each person posts something to the effect of "if I were a rolecop, I would've investigated [person] and gotten [result]". This way, scum can't know for sure who the rolecop is, but even if they die, their results will be meaningful.
I also talked in the setup QT about how the rolecop should claim in 50% of the setups because it is a little bit like follow-the-cop. In the last two setups this is true. In the first two setups, there is enough going on that it is probably better for the rolecop to stay silent, but maybe not enough to not claim. What do people think about that?
Interesting. That could work.
To your 50% claim comment: One confounding problem I noticed is that in setups with a cop, one of the cases with a doctor and one without it also include at least 1 scum roleblocker, so by claiming immediately, there would be a 25% chance the cop just dies if it is the one without doc or roleblocker, 25% chance of scum being able to choose whether they want to kill or roleblock the cop, 25% chance the cop gets roleblocked every night while scum doctor hunts at night, and only a 25% chance of follow-the-cop working well the first two nights if I'm not mistaken.
PPE 1
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Which is to say that there's only 1 in 4 odds of a cop claim being a good idea.
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Townread on LL.
vote: LL
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Oh sorry, we're discussing important things now. Uhhh.... yeah. Rolecop and such.
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Which is to say that there's only 1 in 4 odds of a cop claim being a good idea.
In setup 5 and setup 6 it is good for them to claim. In the other two, it isn't awful
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Which is to say that there's only 1 in 4 odds of a cop claim being a good idea.
In setup 5 and setup 6 it is good for them to claim. In the other two, it isn't awful
Definitely in 5 & 6. I can't really see how claiming in 2 or 3 would be good for town. You've obviously thought this through, care to explain?
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Which is to say that there's only 1 in 4 odds of a cop claim being a good idea.
In setup 5 and setup 6 it is good for them to claim. In the other two, it isn't awful
Definitely in 5 & 6. I can't really see how claiming in 2 or 3 would be good for town. You've obviously thought this through, care to explain?
My question is: is it worth it for the rolecop to claim. Does the goodness of 5 and 6 outweigh the downsides of 2 and 3?
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Which is to say that there's only 1 in 4 odds of a cop claim being a good idea.
In setup 5 and setup 6 it is good for them to claim. In the other two, it isn't awful
Definitely in 5 & 6. I can't really see how claiming in 2 or 3 would be good for town. You've obviously thought this through, care to explain?
My question is: is it worth it for the rolecop to claim. Does the goodness of 5 and 6 outweigh the downsides of 2 and 3?
I say no. 6 would be better than 5 I think. If the Rolecop claims and doesn't catch scum in two days we pretty much don't have PRs D3. In 6 the Watcher (and thus the claimed Rolecop) could potentially survive the whole game, though ambitious scum could choose to sacrifice themself at some point. Probably a bad idea for scum though. So really 6 is the only scenario in which claiming Rolecop would really pay off.
And
vote: gkrieg
For not providing an opinion on his own question.
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Which is to say that there's only 1 in 4 odds of a cop claim being a good idea.
In setup 5 and setup 6 it is good for them to claim. In the other two, it isn't awful
Definitely in 5 & 6. I can't really see how claiming in 2 or 3 would be good for town. You've obviously thought this through, care to explain?
My question is: is it worth it for the rolecop to claim. Does the goodness of 5 and 6 outweigh the downsides of 2 and 3?
If we are in 6, scum would just kill the cop immediately wouldn't they? So is 6 actually good for us?
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Which is to say that there's only 1 in 4 odds of a cop claim being a good idea.
In setup 5 and setup 6 it is good for them to claim. In the other two, it isn't awful
Definitely in 5 & 6. I can't really see how claiming in 2 or 3 would be good for town. You've obviously thought this through, care to explain?
My question is: is it worth it for the rolecop to claim. Does the goodness of 5 and 6 outweigh the downsides of 2 and 3?
If we are in 6, scum would just kill the cop immediately wouldn't they? So is 6 actually good for us?
The Watcher would target the Rolecop every night. Thus if scum killed the Rolecop he would subsequently be lynched. But since there's a 1/7 chance of even hitting 6 which brings us back to gkrieg's question of is it worth taking that chance? I don't think so.
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Which is to say that there's only 1 in 4 odds of a cop claim being a good idea.
In setup 5 and setup 6 it is good for them to claim. In the other two, it isn't awful
Definitely in 5 & 6. I can't really see how claiming in 2 or 3 would be good for town. You've obviously thought this through, care to explain?
My question is: is it worth it for the rolecop to claim. Does the goodness of 5 and 6 outweigh the downsides of 2 and 3?
If we are in 6, scum would just kill the cop immediately wouldn't they? So is 6 actually good for us?
Oh wait, the watcher watches the cop and we lynch the scum that carried out the kill. nvm. Guaranteed dead scum D2 is actually not bad.
Although then I guess the watcher would die the next night, so losing PRs the first two nights with 1 scum left. I'm not sure if that would be worth it. Maybe, but I tend to think keeping the PRs around longer would be better.
PPE 1 ninjad
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The game will only last for 4 days anyway, and even that isn't super likely. So there aren't that many days for PRs to do anything. That's only 3 nights, and more likely 2 nights.
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The game will only last for 4 days anyway, and even that isn't super likely. So there aren't that many days for PRs to do anything. That's only 3 nights, and more likely 2 nights.
That's true, I forgot it's a 9 player game. Why do you think only 2 nights though?
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The game will only last for 4 days anyway, and even that isn't super likely. So there aren't that many days for PRs to do anything. That's only 3 nights, and more likely 2 nights.
That's true, I forgot it's a 9 player game. Why do you think only 2 nights though?
I guess I'm thinking with a normal lynch/kill schedule, the max is 4 days, where the 4th day is 3-person LYLO. The min is 2 days. So 3 days is the middle...
So not really scientific, but I think it is still valid.
Also, about my opinion on it, I think it is a bigger upside in the 5 and 6 than it is a downside in 2 and 3. In 2 and 3, the chance of the rolecop being blocked is not incredibly low, and the JK could still protect the rolecop either way, which makes the WIFOM between the JK and the scum RB interesting. In setup 3, the doctor can still protect the rolecop, it's just that the JK doesn't know the doctor exists.
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unvote
So essentially you think the RC should claim?
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unvote
So essentially you think the RC should claim?
Yes, that is what I'm getting at, I just wanted to see if anyone saw any craziness in my logic.
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Well Hello everyone.
Griekg I guess that makes sense but I think It would be better for role cop(If there is) to claim D2 as to have more info at that point. D1 just seems to early to claim.
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Well Hello everyone.
Griekg I guess that makes sense but I think It would be better for role cop(If there is) to claim D2 as to have more info at that point. D1 just seems to early to claim.
I'm saying because it is a 75% chance of Follow the cop it would be a better idea to do it today.
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There might not even be a RC. Well anyway I don't know. I'm really not a setup kinda guy so you guys go for it. I'll be here making stupid comments in the meantime.
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Hey everyone!
I have finally drawn town, believe it or not so i expect this game to be fun, so do not you fail me! Really, I am happy.
So, rolecop stuff: I actually don't think rolecop should claim (correct me if i am wrong) because the plan for everyone to say at the beginning of the day "if I were the rolecop I would blahblah" looks much better. That doesn't give the scum the setup info. For example, if someone claims the rolecop, scum knows there's no Dayvig and will decide things according to that
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wait, forget it, scum knows the setup lol
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Okay, I maybe have read your thoughts not really carefully, but claiming is good only if we at 5th setup. If we are at 6th it is better to claim later so rc will have some result till then
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Okay, I maybe have read your thoughts not really carefully, but claiming is good only if we at 5th setup. If we are at 6th it is better to claim later so rc will have some result till then
But to kill the rolecop in 6, scum has to give up a person to the watcher.
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Okay, I maybe have read your thoughts not really carefully, but claiming is good only if we at 5th setup. If we are at 6th it is better to claim later so rc will have some result till then
But to kill the rolecop in 6, scum has to give up a person to the watcher.
That's true. But they won't have a choice, really, it's better to give up a person than to keep rc alive. So they will kill rc anyway although we can make rc even more useful by waiting for D2 to claim. Or even if we lynch scum D1 that would be just awesome
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Okay, I maybe have read your thoughts not really carefully, but claiming is good only if we at 5th setup. If we are at 6th it is better to claim later so rc will have some result till then
But to kill the rolecop in 6, scum has to give up a person to the watcher.
That's true. But they won't have a choice, really, it's better to give up a person than to keep rc alive. So they will kill rc anyway although we can make rc even more useful by waiting for D2 to claim. Or even if we lynch scum D1 that would be just awesome
I disagree about scum killing the RC in 6. I think they both want to stay alive for as long as possible. Also, this just occurred to me: in 6 both scum are goons and will give the RC vanilla results which renders the RC's night action practically useless. Claiming would make him an IC I guess, but we wouldn't know for sure we were in 6. [insert more useless speculation]
Again, I don't know if it's worth taking the chance even if we knew there was a RC in this game. Ultimately it's up to the RC if there is one.
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And NOW I will resume the stupid comments.
Actually, I'm going to sleep. I expect two more pages of theory discussion that ultimately repeat what gkrieg stated in his first post when I wake up in the morning.
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Okay, I maybe have read your thoughts not really carefully, but claiming is good only if we at 5th setup. If we are at 6th it is better to claim later so rc will have some result till then
But to kill the rolecop in 6, scum has to give up a person to the watcher.
That's true. But they won't have a choice, really, it's better to give up a person than to keep rc alive. So they will kill rc anyway although we can make rc even more useful by waiting for D2 to claim. Or even if we lynch scum D1 that would be just awesome
I disagree about scum killing the RC in 6. I think they both want to stay alive for as long as possible. Also, this just occurred to me: in 6 both scum are goons and will give the RC vanilla results which renders the RC's night action practically useless. Claiming would make him an IC I guess, but we wouldn't know for sure we were in 6. [insert more useless speculation]
Again, I don't know if it's worth taking the chance even if we knew there was a RC in this game. Ultimately it's up to the RC if there is one.
It's not Vanilla Cop, it's Rolecop. He will have the result "goon"
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Okay, I maybe have read your thoughts not really carefully, but claiming is good only if we at 5th setup. If we are at 6th it is better to claim later so rc will have some result till then
But to kill the rolecop in 6, scum has to give up a person to the watcher.
That's true. But they won't have a choice, really, it's better to give up a person than to keep rc alive. So they will kill rc anyway although we can make rc even more useful by waiting for D2 to claim. Or even if we lynch scum D1 that would be just awesome
I disagree about scum killing the RC in 6. I think they both want to stay alive for as long as possible. Also, this just occurred to me: in 6 both scum are goons and will give the RC vanilla results which renders the RC's night action practically useless. Claiming would make him an IC I guess, but we wouldn't know for sure we were in 6. [insert more useless speculation]
Again, I don't know if it's worth taking the chance even if we knew there was a RC in this game. Ultimately it's up to the RC if there is one.
It's not Vanilla Cop, it's Rolecop. He will have the result "goon"
If you look at the PM for the rolecop that schadd posted, it specifically says goon and vts will both give the result "vanilla" to the cop. So rc can't determine between vt and goon actually. Which leads me to believe that in setup 6 scum would just ignore the cop if he claims and so if the watcher watched the cop, they would never see anything, because the cop is essentially useless in that setup except to be an IC and WIFOM watcher target.
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In light of that, the odds of the rc actually IDing scum is actually pretty low (assuming even probabilities, not factoring in reads), and they will probably only get 2 nights of reads best case scenario. Even if they don't claim and aren't roleblocked if it is setup 2 or 3. So I tend to think the most significant aspect of this is actually more or less the IC factor with a slim chance of pretty high upside. I guess it comes down to whether the rc would want to gamble their survival to become an IC and rely on protection or take the normal risk of being the nk to stay hidden a day or so and see what they can find. I don't think I would blame them for either case, really.
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Wow straight into the setup talk.
That's unusual.
I'll try and contribute today, although my time management skills are poor.
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Ok, so I stopped voting for WW every RVS because someone says it's boring and apparently I'm self-conscious.
You know what's even more boring? Voting for me, ever! You've done it so many times, and gotten me mislynched so many times that there's just no novelty value in it any more... :-P
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Wow straight into the setup talk.
That's unusual.
I'll try and contribute today, although my time management skills are poor.
I was wondering where my fellow Brit had gone, now that it's all daytime-y over here.
Poor time management is what leads to too much forum time, no?
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So, I think I have a scheme for the rolecop to be able to claim his results every day, but so that he is also able to hide. This is important if the rolecop dies, people will be able to look at his results. So, for this to work, at the beginning of every day, each person posts something to the effect of "if I were a rolecop, I would've investigated [person] and gotten [result]". This way, scum can't know for sure who the rolecop is, but even if they die, their results will be meaningful.
This is interesting. There's a bit of a risk that scum could PoE the RC based on VTs giving implausible results. Maybe the expected game length is short enough not to make it too much of a risk, but it's kind of like certain VTs claiming "not a PR", which we'd usually think is kind of anti-town.
Though if I play with this idea for a minute, why limit it just to the RC? Why not have every player, at the start of every day, claim a result/action for every PR that might be in the game? That means everyone giving a RC result, a tracker result, a watcher result, a doctor target, and a JK target. I mean, on the one hand, it seems ridiculous, but on the other hand, it will make every player reveal real reads on trusted or suspicious players, which we can query, as well as recording game information to use for the good of town after a flip.
It's clearly anti-town not to give a valid list of thought-out targets with plausible results with that strategy, because if you say something cheeky/rushed, then scum pretty much assume you're a VT and go after the more valuable people. I'd just worry that it would actually take a fair amount of town self-discipline to achieve correctly, and that maybe even nine people is too many to cat-heard into playing along, when two of them are actively against us.
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Ok, so I stopped voting for WW every RVS because someone says it's boring and apparently I'm self-conscious.
You know what's even more boring? Voting for me, ever! You've done it so many times, and gotten me mislynched so many times that there's just no novelty value in it any more... :-P
But you're always bad.......
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Ok, so I stopped voting for WW every RVS because someone says it's boring and apparently I'm self-conscious.
You know what's even more boring? Voting for me, ever! You've done it so many times, and gotten me mislynched so many times that there's just no novelty value in it any more... :-P
But you're always bad.......
Hey, my play may be questionable sometimes, but I've almost never been scum!
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Will post setup stuff later.
Is it later yet? I'm about to go to bed, but hopefully by the time I'm awake again, you and LL will have posted lots of lovely setup thoughts. Shame there's no Calamitas this game to want to talk about setup theory. At least there's still PPS, though!
My personal pre-game thoughts were limited to hoping not to be scum in the compulsive visitor setup, since that sounded like a tough one. The dayvig one is a neat concept, and would make us a convenient IC if it happens... all my Werewolf experience prior to coming to f.ds to play mafia was with dayvigs, but we tended to put in one of each alignment precisely to prevent the IC-ification thing.
Also: no vote for WW?? :o
Ok, so I stopped voting for WW every RVS because someone says it's boring and apparently I'm self-conscious.
So, I think I have a scheme for the rolecop to be able to claim his results every day, but so that he is also able to hide. This is important if the rolecop dies, people will be able to look at his results. So, for this to work, at the beginning of every day, each person posts something to the effect of "if I were a rolecop, I would've investigated [person] and gotten [result]". This way, scum can't know for sure who the rolecop is, but even if they die, their results will be meaningful.
I also talked in the setup QT about how the rolecop should claim in 50% of the setups because it is a little bit like follow-the-cop. In the last two setups this is true. In the first two setups, there is enough going on that it is probably better for the rolecop to stay silent, but maybe not enough to not claim. What do people think about that?
I think you clearly read the setup.
I helped design the setup!
Not sure if joke went over head or if explaining joke to make funnier.
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Not sure if joke went over head or if explaining joke to make funnier.
In order to fully explain gkreig's explanation of your joke, you really have to go and read the setup, though. What did you make of it?
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[Not game related]
I decided to read through M88 and found this:
Like, where did AndrewisFTTW go is my question?
e missed me! 8)
[Game related]
Ok I'm awake
Ok, so I stopped voting for WW every RVS because someone says it's boring and apparently I'm self-conscious.
You know what's even more boring? Voting for me, ever! You've done it so many times, and gotten me mislynched so many times that there's just no novelty value in it any more... :-P
vote: Space
(This vote is not strictly because he said not to, kinda.)
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Hey Jake I'm a Nats fan. Bring it.
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[Not game related]
I decided to read through M88 and found this:
Like, where did AndrewisFTTW go is my question?
e missed me! 8)
[Game related]
Ok I'm awake
Ok, so I stopped voting for WW every RVS because someone says it's boring and apparently I'm self-conscious.
You know what's even more boring? Voting for me, ever! You've done it so many times, and gotten me mislynched so many times that there's just no novelty value in it any more... :-P
vote: Space
(This vote is not strictly because he said not to, kinda.)
Space is using "they" as a pronoun, or "she" :)
And also lately after some games I believe Space is town after these words. Fits into town meta in some way
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As I am not a huge fan of RVS, missing it completely seems weird. vote: Joseph
I actually do have some mild scumreads on this point which makes me glad. Maybe I am becoming a better player? Joseph is one of them.
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Okay, I maybe have read your thoughts not really carefully, but claiming is good only if we at 5th setup. If we are at 6th it is better to claim later so rc will have some result till then
But to kill the rolecop in 6, scum has to give up a person to the watcher.
That's true. But they won't have a choice, really, it's better to give up a person than to keep rc alive. So they will kill rc anyway although we can make rc even more useful by waiting for D2 to claim. Or even if we lynch scum D1 that would be just awesome
I disagree about scum killing the RC in 6. I think they both want to stay alive for as long as possible. Also, this just occurred to me: in 6 both scum are goons and will give the RC vanilla results which renders the RC's night action practically useless. Claiming would make him an IC I guess, but we wouldn't know for sure we were in 6. [insert more useless speculation]
Again, I don't know if it's worth taking the chance even if we knew there was a RC in this game. Ultimately it's up to the RC if there is one.
It's not Vanilla Cop, it's Rolecop. He will have the result "goon"
Possible scum slip here.
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As I am not a huge fan of RVS, missing it completely seems weird. vote: Joseph
I actually do have some mild scumreads on this point which makes me glad. Maybe I am becoming a better player? Joseph is one of them.
Scum reading me is such a rookie error.
I've been scum like 4 times out of 20-25 games.
And I always get early mislynched
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Ok, so I stopped voting for WW every RVS because someone says it's boring and apparently I'm self-conscious.
You know what's even more boring? Voting for me, ever! You've done it so many times, and gotten me mislynched so many times that there's just no novelty value in it any more... :-P
But you're always bad.......
Hey, my play may be questionable sometimes, but I've almost never been scum!
Except all the times I thought you were scum!
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Okay, I maybe have read your thoughts not really carefully, but claiming is good only if we at 5th setup. If we are at 6th it is better to claim later so rc will have some result till then
But to kill the rolecop in 6, scum has to give up a person to the watcher.
That's true. But they won't have a choice, really, it's better to give up a person than to keep rc alive. So they will kill rc anyway although we can make rc even more useful by waiting for D2 to claim. Or even if we lynch scum D1 that would be just awesome
I disagree about scum killing the RC in 6. I think they both want to stay alive for as long as possible. Also, this just occurred to me: in 6 both scum are goons and will give the RC vanilla results which renders the RC's night action practically useless. Claiming would make him an IC I guess, but we wouldn't know for sure we were in 6. [insert more useless speculation]
Again, I don't know if it's worth taking the chance even if we knew there was a RC in this game. Ultimately it's up to the RC if there is one.
It's not Vanilla Cop, it's Rolecop. He will have the result "goon"
Possible scum slip here.
Actually vote: LaLight
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Okay, I maybe have read your thoughts not really carefully, but claiming is good only if we at 5th setup. If we are at 6th it is better to claim later so rc will have some result till then
But to kill the rolecop in 6, scum has to give up a person to the watcher.
That's true. But they won't have a choice, really, it's better to give up a person than to keep rc alive. So they will kill rc anyway although we can make rc even more useful by waiting for D2 to claim. Or even if we lynch scum D1 that would be just awesome
I disagree about scum killing the RC in 6. I think they both want to stay alive for as long as possible. Also, this just occurred to me: in 6 both scum are goons and will give the RC vanilla results which renders the RC's night action practically useless. Claiming would make him an IC I guess, but we wouldn't know for sure we were in 6. [insert more useless speculation]
Again, I don't know if it's worth taking the chance even if we knew there was a RC in this game. Ultimately it's up to the RC if there is one.
It's not Vanilla Cop, it's Rolecop. He will have the result "goon"
Possible scum slip here.
What scumslip? It was a mistake. Pronoun was a mistake too :(
PPE: 1
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Okay, I maybe have read your thoughts not really carefully, but claiming is good only if we at 5th setup. If we are at 6th it is better to claim later so rc will have some result till then
But to kill the rolecop in 6, scum has to give up a person to the watcher.
That's true. But they won't have a choice, really, it's better to give up a person than to keep rc alive. So they will kill rc anyway although we can make rc even more useful by waiting for D2 to claim. Or even if we lynch scum D1 that would be just awesome
I disagree about scum killing the RC in 6. I think they both want to stay alive for as long as possible. Also, this just occurred to me: in 6 both scum are goons and will give the RC vanilla results which renders the RC's night action practically useless. Claiming would make him an IC I guess, but we wouldn't know for sure we were in 6. [insert more useless speculation]
Again, I don't know if it's worth taking the chance even if we knew there was a RC in this game. Ultimately it's up to the RC if there is one.
It's not Vanilla Cop, it's Rolecop. He will have the result "goon"
Possible scum slip here.
Actually vote: LaLight
Whatever you use to think i am scum doesn't work here. I am really finally town, give me time to get used to it again
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As I am not a huge fan of RVS, missing it completely seems weird. vote: Joseph
I actually do have some mild scumreads on this point which makes me glad. Maybe I am becoming a better player? Joseph is one of them.
Scum reading me is such a rookie error.
I've been scum like 4 times out of 20-25 games.
And I always get early mislynched
This does not mean you can't be scum in this very game. As little as I know about probability theories, I can say that for sure.
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I think we've heard from everyone except Robz. So let's talk about how nobody likes RVS and how we somewhat moved out of it almost immediately thanks to gkrieg. Not everyone has weighed in on whether the RC should claim if we have one. What do you think pps? And whose analysis did you/everyone find the scummiest?
Wow straight into the setup talk.
That's unusual.
I'll try and contribute today, although my time management skills are poor.
I found Joseph's response a little weird. He feels obligated to contribute something instead of simply responding to what was posted even though we pretty much beat it to death right away (at least that's how I feel about it). Although coming from Joseph I don't think that's much of a tell.
And then this:
Okay, I maybe have read your thoughts not really carefully, but claiming is good only if we at 5th setup. If we are at 6th it is better to claim later so rc will have some result till then
But to kill the rolecop in 6, scum has to give up a person to the watcher.
That's true. But they won't have a choice, really, it's better to give up a person than to keep rc alive. So they will kill rc anyway although we can make rc even more useful by waiting for D2 to claim. Or even if we lynch scum D1 that would be just awesome
I disagree about scum killing the RC in 6. I think they both want to stay alive for as long as possible. Also, this just occurred to me: in 6 both scum are goons and will give the RC vanilla results which renders the RC's night action practically useless. Claiming would make him an IC I guess, but we wouldn't know for sure we were in 6. [insert more useless speculation]
Again, I don't know if it's worth taking the chance even if we knew there was a RC in this game. Ultimately it's up to the RC if there is one.
It's not Vanilla Cop, it's Rolecop. He will have the result "goon"
If you look at the PM for the rolecop that schadd posted, it specifically says goon and vts will both give the result "vanilla" to the cop. So rc can't determine between vt and goon actually. Which leads me to believe that in setup 6 scum would just ignore the cop if he claims and so if the watcher watched the cop, they would never see anything, because the cop is essentially useless in that setup except to be an IC and WIFOM watcher target.
Is scum!LL more like to miss this than town!LL? Even after assisting with the setup? I find it somewhat towny. Scum would double check everything they posted is correct I think.
EDIT: ninja'd a little bit.
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Okay, I maybe have read your thoughts not really carefully, but claiming is good only if we at 5th setup. If we are at 6th it is better to claim later so rc will have some result till then
But to kill the rolecop in 6, scum has to give up a person to the watcher.
That's true. But they won't have a choice, really, it's better to give up a person than to keep rc alive. So they will kill rc anyway although we can make rc even more useful by waiting for D2 to claim. Or even if we lynch scum D1 that would be just awesome
I disagree about scum killing the RC in 6. I think they both want to stay alive for as long as possible. Also, this just occurred to me: in 6 both scum are goons and will give the RC vanilla results which renders the RC's night action practically useless. Claiming would make him an IC I guess, but we wouldn't know for sure we were in 6. [insert more useless speculation]
Again, I don't know if it's worth taking the chance even if we knew there was a RC in this game. Ultimately it's up to the RC if there is one.
It's not Vanilla Cop, it's Rolecop. He will have the result "goon"
Possible scum slip here.
Actually vote: LaLight
Really? After working with him on the setup you think scum!LL would miss something like this or pretend to miss it for some reason?
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Well, I don't think it was mentioned in the setup tell that Rolecop is actually half role half vanilla. Or it was and I missed it completely
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Okay, I maybe have read your thoughts not really carefully, but claiming is good only if we at 5th setup. If we are at 6th it is better to claim later so rc will have some result till then
But to kill the rolecop in 6, scum has to give up a person to the watcher.
That's true. But they won't have a choice, really, it's better to give up a person than to keep rc alive. So they will kill rc anyway although we can make rc even more useful by waiting for D2 to claim. Or even if we lynch scum D1 that would be just awesome
I disagree about scum killing the RC in 6. I think they both want to stay alive for as long as possible. Also, this just occurred to me: in 6 both scum are goons and will give the RC vanilla results which renders the RC's night action practically useless. Claiming would make him an IC I guess, but we wouldn't know for sure we were in 6. [insert more useless speculation]
Again, I don't know if it's worth taking the chance even if we knew there was a RC in this game. Ultimately it's up to the RC if there is one.
It's not Vanilla Cop, it's Rolecop. He will have the result "goon"
Possible scum slip here.
Actually vote: LaLight
Really? After working with him on the setup you think scum!LL would miss something like this or pretend to miss it for some reason?
It's pronoun stuff, not what the cop gets as a result stuff
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Okay, I maybe have read your thoughts not really carefully, but claiming is good only if we at 5th setup. If we are at 6th it is better to claim later so rc will have some result till then
But to kill the rolecop in 6, scum has to give up a person to the watcher.
That's true. But they won't have a choice, really, it's better to give up a person than to keep rc alive. So they will kill rc anyway although we can make rc even more useful by waiting for D2 to claim. Or even if we lynch scum D1 that would be just awesome
I disagree about scum killing the RC in 6. I think they both want to stay alive for as long as possible. Also, this just occurred to me: in 6 both scum are goons and will give the RC vanilla results which renders the RC's night action practically useless. Claiming would make him an IC I guess, but we wouldn't know for sure we were in 6. [insert more useless speculation]
Again, I don't know if it's worth taking the chance even if we knew there was a RC in this game. Ultimately it's up to the RC if there is one.
It's not Vanilla Cop, it's Rolecop. He will have the result "goon"
Possible scum slip here.
What scumslip? It was a mistake. Pronoun was a mistake too :(
PPE: 1
And the fact that he knows it was the pronoun is even more telling.
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The word cop (коп) in russian is strictly masculine and again I feel ashamed for that. But yeah, I would see that as a scumslip myself too. Still truth is what I said
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As I am not a huge fan of RVS, missing it completely seems weird. vote: Joseph
I actually do have some mild scumreads on this point which makes me glad. Maybe I am becoming a better player? Joseph is one of them.
Scum reading me is such a rookie error.
I've been scum like 4 times out of 20-25 games.
And I always get early mislynched
This is what you say if you want to keep getting early mislynched.
Okay, I maybe have read your thoughts not really carefully, but claiming is good only if we at 5th setup. If we are at 6th it is better to claim later so rc will have some result till then
But to kill the rolecop in 6, scum has to give up a person to the watcher.
That's true. But they won't have a choice, really, it's better to give up a person than to keep rc alive. So they will kill rc anyway although we can make rc even more useful by waiting for D2 to claim. Or even if we lynch scum D1 that would be just awesome
I disagree about scum killing the RC in 6. I think they both want to stay alive for as long as possible. Also, this just occurred to me: in 6 both scum are goons and will give the RC vanilla results which renders the RC's night action practically useless. Claiming would make him an IC I guess, but we wouldn't know for sure we were in 6. [insert more useless speculation]
Again, I don't know if it's worth taking the chance even if we knew there was a RC in this game. Ultimately it's up to the RC if there is one.
It's not Vanilla Cop, it's Rolecop. He will have the result "goon"
Possible scum slip here.
Actually vote: LaLight
Really? After working with him on the setup you think scum!LL would miss something like this or pretend to miss it for some reason?
It's pronoun stuff, not what the cop gets as a result stuff
So you think he's scum because he said:
It's not Vanilla Cop, it's Rolecop. He will have the result "goon"
What do you find scummy here? That he knows the correct name of the role?
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yeah, I have reread and noticed the pronoun
ppe
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Andrew, that I said "he will receive" so I supposedly know the gender of the rolecop
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Wait
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How is that scumslip?! Rolecop is town role!
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Or I don't get something. gkrieg, elaborate please
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OH pronoun, not prefix. Yeah that means nothing. Were you making a joke gkrieg?
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looks like he was studying my reaction on that. good job
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11 pages into M88. I can't wait to see Jake in action in this game.
looks like he was studying my reaction on that. good job
Eh. Yer town. Deal with it.
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11 pages into M88. I can't wait to see Jake in action in this game.
looks like he was studying my reaction on that. good job
Eh. Yer town. Deal with it.
Are you?
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Not a scumslip in my book. I default of the singular masculine pronoun in a variety of situations.
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Also the Rolecop claiming sounds fun and exciting but is probably not a good idea. I just looked at the setups and and it doesn't seem to have much benefit in any of them.
Also, I don't understand setup 6. Town gets a Watcher and a Rolecop, but there's nothing for the Rolecop to rolecop except the Watcher? These seems like a real bad one for town.
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Ya I think LaLight is town now. unvote
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Ya I think LaLight is town now. unvote
aw, I almost forgot that warm feeling when someone says that!
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Ok, so I stopped voting for WW every RVS because someone says it's boring and apparently I'm self-conscious.
You know what's even more boring? Voting for me, ever! You've done it so many times, and gotten me mislynched so many times that there's just no novelty value in it any more... :-P
vote: Space
(This vote is not strictly because he said not to, kinda.)
Space is using "they" as a pronoun, or "she" :)
Thanks, LL :-)
Nice to meet you, Andrew!
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11 pages into M88. I can't wait to see Jake in action in this game.
He's very young, and actively improving. I'm going to scumread anyone who goes out of the way to rile him up based on his early games. Set a good example rather than digging for old dirt :-)
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Ya I think LaLight is town now. unvote
I'm inclined to feel townier on you for this exchange, but tell me, were you deliberately putting pressure on LL given how he can get flustered, or did you genuinely think he'd slipped?
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Setups, ranked best-for-town to best-for-scum
3. rolecop, 2-shot doctor, jailkeeper, 4 VTs ; roleblocker, roleblocker
4. 2-shot doctor, tracker, 5 VTs ; compulsive visitor, goon
5. 2-shot doctor, rolecop, 5 VTs ; tracker, goon
7. watcher, tracker, 5 VTs ; 1-shot ninja, goon
1. jailkeeper, dayvig, 5 VTs ; JOAT (1-shot strongman/roleblocker), goon
2. rolecop, jailkeeper, 5 VTs ; roleblocker, goon
6. rolecop, watcher, 5 VTs ; goon, goon
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Setups, ranked best-for-town to best-for-scum
3. rolecop, 2-shot doctor, jailkeeper, 4 VTs ; roleblocker, roleblocker
4. 2-shot doctor, tracker, 5 VTs ; compulsive visitor, goon
5. 2-shot doctor, rolecop, 5 VTs ; tracker, goon
7. watcher, tracker, 5 VTs ; 1-shot ninja, goon
1. jailkeeper, dayvig, 5 VTs ; JOAT (1-shot strongman/roleblocker), goon
2. rolecop, jailkeeper, 5 VTs ; roleblocker, goon
6. rolecop, watcher, 5 VTs ; goon, goon
Vote: Robz888
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I am serious
-
I am serious
?
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I am serious
?
False contribution which is easy to make and is quite useful not only for town
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I am serious
?
False contribution which is easy to make and is quite useful not only for town
Yeah, it's not a great contribution, but I felt like doing it anyway.
I did make a good contribution, though. I said your scumslip wasn't a scumslip.
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I am serious
?
False contribution which is easy to make and is quite useful not only for town
Yeah, it's not a great contribution, but I felt like doing it anyway.
I did make a good contribution, though. I said your scumslip wasn't a scumslip.
Which was obvious. Not like I was at L-1 or something
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Ok, so I stopped voting for WW every RVS because someone says it's boring and apparently I'm self-conscious.
You know what's even more boring? Voting for me, ever! You've done it so many times, and gotten me mislynched so many times that there's just no novelty value in it any more... :-P
vote: Space
(This vote is not strictly because he said not to, kinda.)
Space is using "they" as a pronoun, or "she" :)
Thanks, LL :-)
Nice to meet you, Andrew!
Oh sorry! I wont make that mistake again. Nice to meet you too.
-
I am serious
?
False contribution which is easy to make and is quite useful not only for town
Yeah, it's not a great contribution, but I felt like doing it anyway.
I did make a good contribution, though. I said your scumslip wasn't a scumslip.
Or are you trying to buddy me? *looks suspicious*
PPE
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I am serious
?
False contribution which is easy to make and is quite useful not only for town
Yeah, it's not a great contribution, but I felt like doing it anyway.
I did make a good contribution, though. I said your scumslip wasn't a scumslip.
Or are you trying to buddy me? *looks suspicious*
PPE
I do actually think you're not scum for once!
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I am serious
?
False contribution which is easy to make and is quite useful not only for town
Yeah, it's not a great contribution, but I felt like doing it anyway.
I did make a good contribution, though. I said your scumslip wasn't a scumslip.
Or are you trying to buddy me? *looks suspicious*
PPE
I do actually think you're not scum for once!
Sure? lemme find a quote
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11 pages into M88. I can't wait to see Jake in action in this game.
He's very young, and actively improving. I'm going to scumread anyone who goes out of the way to rile him up based on his early games. Set a good example rather than digging for old dirt :-)
I'm not being sarcastic or saying that in a mean way. I respect anyone who doesn't beat around the bush and just speaks their mind, even if it pushes the envelope a little bit.
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Yeah, if SA was town, wouldn't they be quickhammered now?
vote: SA
I'm assuming the scum wincon is controlling half of town. I can't think of any way scum could get killed at night by town.
PPE: Lalight - right, I missed the Calamitas/SA possibility.
PPE: Robz is mega buddying Lalight.
LaLight is town. If he's not, GG. You have to make calls at the end, and it's call-making time. And also, you are implicitly doing the same thing, because you know LL is town too, albeit for different reasons.
@Robz.
If you're scum you win.
Argh.
Wanted to vote: Calamitas
Nowhere to run yet.
What does "nowhere to run yet" mean?
Also, yes, but I'm never lynching you at this point so it's also true for me: if you're scum, brilliantly well played, you deserve this.
You were scum there
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Semirandomly calling Robz/Joseph/Jake or Andrew scumteam. Just to see if i was right in the end
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Yeah, if SA was town, wouldn't they be quickhammered now?
vote: SA
I'm assuming the scum wincon is controlling half of town. I can't think of any way scum could get killed at night by town.
PPE: Lalight - right, I missed the Calamitas/SA possibility.
PPE: Robz is mega buddying Lalight.
LaLight is town. If he's not, GG. You have to make calls at the end, and it's call-making time. And also, you are implicitly doing the same thing, because you know LL is town too, albeit for different reasons.
@Robz.
If you're scum you win.
Argh.
Wanted to vote: Calamitas
Nowhere to run yet.
What does "nowhere to run yet" mean?
Also, yes, but I'm never lynching you at this point so it's also true for me: if you're scum, brilliantly well played, you deserve this.
You were scum there
What game was that? What?
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M88. You can click a signature on top of the quote :)
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11 pages into M88. I can't wait to see Jake in action in this game.
He's very young, and actively improving. I'm going to scumread anyone who goes out of the way to rile him up based on his early games. Set a good example rather than digging for old dirt :-)
I'm not being sarcastic or saying that in a mean way. I respect anyone who doesn't beat around the bush and just speaks their mind, even if it pushes the envelope a little bit.
Thank you and my mind say your scum because you like the nats!!! Jk I though LL might be town this game but then that awful stuff with robz just reversed my thinking. I am serious
?
False contribution which is easy to make and is quite useful not only for town
Semirandomly calling Robz/Joseph/Jake or Andrew scumteam. Just to see if i was right in the end
Also ?????????????
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Semirandomly calling Robz/Joseph/Jake or Andrew scumteam. Just to see if i was right in the end
Two scums, my friend! You really haven't been looking much at the set-up, huh? :-P
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11 pages into M88. I can't wait to see Jake in action in this game.
He's very young, and actively improving. I'm going to scumread anyone who goes out of the way to rile him up based on his early games. Set a good example rather than digging for old dirt :-)
I'm not being sarcastic or saying that in a mean way. I respect anyone who doesn't beat around the bush and just speaks their mind, even if it pushes the envelope a little bit.
Thank you and my mind say your scum because you like the nats!!! Jk I though LL might be town this game but then that awful stuff with robz just reversed my thinking. I am serious
?
False contribution which is easy to make and is quite useful not only for town
Semirandomly calling Robz/Joseph/Jake or Andrew scumteam. Just to see if i was right in the end
Also ?????????????
What awful stuff?
Well, it's still semirandom based on that i think some people are more townie/scummy than others. Talking about you, you rolecop with results comment looks scummy to me
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11 pages into M88. I can't wait to see Jake in action in this game.
He's very young, and actively improving. I'm going to scumread anyone who goes out of the way to rile him up based on his early games. Set a good example rather than digging for old dirt :-)
I'm not being sarcastic or saying that in a mean way. I respect anyone who doesn't beat around the bush and just speaks their mind, even if it pushes the envelope a little bit.
Thank you and my mind say your scum because you like the nats!!! Jk I though LL might be town this game but then that awful stuff with robz just reversed my thinking. I am serious
?
False contribution which is easy to make and is quite useful not only for town
Semirandomly calling Robz/Joseph/Jake or Andrew scumteam. Just to see if i was right in the end
Also ?????????????
What awful stuff?
Well, it's still semirandom based on that i think some people are more townie/scummy than others. Talking about you, you rolecop with results comment looks scummy to me
Vote: LaLight
She's a bit scummy
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Semirandomly calling Robz/Joseph/Jake or Andrew scumteam. Just to see if i was right in the end
Two scums, my friend! You really haven't been looking much at the set-up, huh? :-P
Oh gosh. I am not faking all this stuff I swear. Robz/Joseph then :)
Ppe
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11 pages into M88. I can't wait to see Jake in action in this game.
He's very young, and actively improving. I'm going to scumread anyone who goes out of the way to rile him up based on his early games. Set a good example rather than digging for old dirt :-)
I'm not being sarcastic or saying that in a mean way. I respect anyone who doesn't beat around the bush and just speaks their mind, even if it pushes the envelope a little bit.
Thank you and my mind say your scum because you like the nats!!! Jk I though LL might be town this game but then that awful stuff with robz just reversed my thinking. I am serious
?
False contribution which is easy to make and is quite useful not only for town
Semirandomly calling Robz/Joseph/Jake or Andrew scumteam. Just to see if i was right in the end
Also ?????????????
What awful stuff?
Well, it's still semirandom based on that i think some people are more townie/scummy than others. Talking about you, you rolecop with results comment looks scummy to me
What rolecop results thing?? I simply said that the rolecop shouldn't claim D1
-
11 pages into M88. I can't wait to see Jake in action in this game.
He's very young, and actively improving. I'm going to scumread anyone who goes out of the way to rile him up based on his early games. Set a good example rather than digging for old dirt :-)
I'm not being sarcastic or saying that in a mean way. I respect anyone who doesn't beat around the bush and just speaks their mind, even if it pushes the envelope a little bit.
Thank you and my mind say your scum because you like the nats!!! Jk I though LL might be town this game but then that awful stuff with robz just reversed my thinking. I am serious
?
False contribution which is easy to make and is quite useful not only for town
Semirandomly calling Robz/Joseph/Jake or Andrew scumteam. Just to see if i was right in the end
Also ?????????????
What awful stuff?
Well, it's still semirandom based on that i think some people are more townie/scummy than others. Talking about you, you rolecop with results comment looks scummy to me
Vote: LaLight
She's a bit scummy
As far as i am okay with any pronoun whatsoever, we met in person, man!
-
11 pages into M88. I can't wait to see Jake in action in this game.
He's very young, and actively improving. I'm going to scumread anyone who goes out of the way to rile him up based on his early games. Set a good example rather than digging for old dirt :-)
I'm not being sarcastic or saying that in a mean way. I respect anyone who doesn't beat around the bush and just speaks their mind, even if it pushes the envelope a little bit.
Thank you and my mind say your scum because you like the nats!!! Jk I though LL might be town this game but then that awful stuff with robz just reversed my thinking. I am serious
?
False contribution which is easy to make and is quite useful not only for town
Semirandomly calling Robz/Joseph/Jake or Andrew scumteam. Just to see if i was right in the end
Also ?????????????
What awful stuff?
Well, it's still semirandom based on that i think some people are more townie/scummy than others. Talking about you, you rolecop with results comment looks scummy to me
What rolecop results thing?? I simply said that the rolecop shouldn't claim D1
Yeah, that very comment
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Again, guys, I am not saying that any of you are conf!scum. It's just how i feel. Don't get aggressive
-
11 pages into M88. I can't wait to see Jake in action in this game.
He's very young, and actively improving. I'm going to scumread anyone who goes out of the way to rile him up based on his early games. Set a good example rather than digging for old dirt :-)
I'm not being sarcastic or saying that in a mean way. I respect anyone who doesn't beat around the bush and just speaks their mind, even if it pushes the envelope a little bit.
Thank you and my mind say your scum because you like the nats!!! Jk I though LL might be town this game but then that awful stuff with robz just reversed my thinking. I am serious
?
False contribution which is easy to make and is quite useful not only for town
Semirandomly calling Robz/Joseph/Jake or Andrew scumteam. Just to see if i was right in the end
Also ?????????????
What awful stuff?
Well, it's still semirandom based on that i think some people are more townie/scummy than others. Talking about you, you rolecop with results comment looks scummy to me
Vote: LaLight
She's a bit scummy
As far as i am okay with any pronoun whatsoever, we met in person, man!
And that's why I know you're female
-
11 pages into M88. I can't wait to see Jake in action in this game.
He's very young, and actively improving. I'm going to scumread anyone who goes out of the way to rile him up based on his early games. Set a good example rather than digging for old dirt :-)
I'm not being sarcastic or saying that in a mean way. I respect anyone who doesn't beat around the bush and just speaks their mind, even if it pushes the envelope a little bit.
Thank you and my mind say your scum because you like the nats!!! Jk I though LL might be town this game but then that awful stuff with robz just reversed my thinking. I am serious
?
False contribution which is easy to make and is quite useful not only for town
Semirandomly calling Robz/Joseph/Jake or Andrew scumteam. Just to see if i was right in the end
Also ?????????????
What awful stuff?
Well, it's still semirandom based on that i think some people are more townie/scummy than others. Talking about you, you rolecop with results comment looks scummy to me
Vote: LaLight
She's a bit scummy
As far as i am okay with any pronoun whatsoever, we met in person, man!
And that's why I know you're female
It's either a joke or misunderstanding cause i am a dark-haired guy. But ugh, let's not derail
-
11 pages into M88. I can't wait to see Jake in action in this game.
He's very young, and actively improving. I'm going to scumread anyone who goes out of the way to rile him up based on his early games. Set a good example rather than digging for old dirt :-)
I'm not being sarcastic or saying that in a mean way. I respect anyone who doesn't beat around the bush and just speaks their mind, even if it pushes the envelope a little bit.
Thank you and my mind say your scum because you like the nats!!! Jk I though LL might be town this game but then that awful stuff with robz just reversed my thinking. I am serious
?
False contribution which is easy to make and is quite useful not only for town
Semirandomly calling Robz/Joseph/Jake or Andrew scumteam. Just to see if i was right in the end
Also ?????????????
What awful stuff?
Well, it's still semirandom based on that i think some people are more townie/scummy than others. Talking about you, you rolecop with results comment looks scummy to me
Vote: LaLight
She's a bit scummy
As far as i am okay with any pronoun whatsoever, we met in person, man!
And that's why I know you're female
It's either a joke or misunderstanding cause i am a dark-haired guy. But ugh, let's not derail
It was a joke lol. Trying to convince people of things that are wrong
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Didn't convince me tho :D
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Ya I think LaLight is town now. unvote
I'm inclined to feel townier on you for this exchange, but tell me, were you deliberately putting pressure on LL given how he can get flustered, or did you genuinely think he'd slipped?
I wanted to put pressure on him to see if he really figured out that he couldn't slip that way. I figured if he was town, he would try to defend himself before realizing it couldn't possibly be a slip, where if he were scum, he would instantly realize that it was impossible for it to be a scum slip.
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Semirandomly calling Robz/Joseph/Jake or Andrew scumteam. Just to see if i was right in the end
Ok ok, we realize you are town, stop it with the townslips.
-
11 pages into M88. I can't wait to see Jake in action in this game.
He's very young, and actively improving. I'm going to scumread anyone who goes out of the way to rile him up based on his early games. Set a good example rather than digging for old dirt :-)
I'm not being sarcastic or saying that in a mean way. I respect anyone who doesn't beat around the bush and just speaks their mind, even if it pushes the envelope a little bit.
Thank you and my mind say your scum because you like the nats!!! Jk I though LL might be town this game but then that awful stuff with robz just reversed my thinking. I am serious
?
False contribution which is easy to make and is quite useful not only for town
Semirandomly calling Robz/Joseph/Jake or Andrew scumteam. Just to see if i was right in the end
Also ?????????????
What awful stuff?
Well, it's still semirandom based on that i think some people are more townie/scummy than others. Talking about you, you rolecop with results comment looks scummy to me
What rolecop results thing?? I simply said that the rolecop shouldn't claim D1
Yeah, that very comment
How is saying my opion on a issue scummy? Also wouldn't scum want rolecop to claim so they could kill them??????
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Ya I think LaLight is town now. unvote
I'm inclined to feel townier on you for this exchange, but tell me, were you deliberately putting pressure on LL given how he can get flustered, or did you genuinely think he'd slipped?
I wanted to put pressure on him to see if he really figured out that he couldn't slip that way. I figured if he was town, he would try to defend himself before realizing it couldn't possibly be a slip, where if he were scum, he would instantly realize that it was impossible for it to be a scum slip.
I would conclude the opposite I think.
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It was a joke lol. Trying to convince people of things that are wrong
Hey, there's photographic evidence of what several of us look like over in the "Post your photo" thread.
You know who's most interested in convincing people of lies? Scum...
-
How is saying my opion on a issue scummy? Also wouldn't scum want rolecop to claim so they could kill them??????
It depends on the setup but we already discussed all of this.
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Vote Count 1.1
pingpongsam (2): SpaceAnemone, pingpongsam
SpaceAnemone (1): AndrewisFTTW
Robz888 (1): LaLight
LaLight (1): Joseph2302
not voting (4): JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888, Dylan32, gkrieg13
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends Tuesday, March 28th at 5pm forum time.
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I think for now I'm gonna Vote: Gkrieg because I don't like how in his first few posts it seems like he knows there is a role cop and knows the setup (scum does). Also I have never seen gkrieg come out and talk about setup like this asap
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Vote Count 1.1
pingpongsam (2): SpaceAnemone, pingpongsam
SpaceAnemone (1): AndrewisFTTW
Robz888 (1): LaLight
LaLight (1): Joseph2302
not voting (4): JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888, Dylan32, AndrewisFTTW.
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends Tuesday, March 28th at 5pm forum time.
Andrew is both voting me and not voting. Meanwhile gkrieg has evaporated...
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I think for now I'm gonna Vote: Gkrieg because I don't like how in his first few posts it seems like he knows there is a role cop and knows the setup (scum does). Also I have never seen gkrieg come out and talk about setup like this asap
He designed tis setup, of course he has an opinion on it.
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Vote Count 1.1
AndrewisFTTW (2): AndrewisFTTW, AndrewisFTTW
AndrewisFTTW (1): AndrewisFTTW
AndrewisFTTW (1): AndrewisFTTW
AndrewisFTTW (1): AndrewisFTTW
not voting (4): AndrewisFTTW, AndrewisFTTW, AndrewisFTTW, AndrewisFTTW.
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends Tuesday, March 28th at 5pm forum time.
FTFY
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I think for now I'm gonna Vote: Gkrieg because I don't like how in his first few posts it seems like he knows there is a role cop and knows the setup (scum does). Also I have never seen gkrieg come out and talk about setup like this asap
He designed tis setup, of course he has an opinion on it.
Not only that, I was specifically looking for ways that it was broken, and we discussed rolecop a lot actually! I told schadd that this was one of the problems with the setup, but he said that there is at least one setup where the rolecop doesn't really want to claim, and so that is enough of a deterrent for the role cop not to claim.
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Vote Count 1.1
pingpongsam (2): SpaceAnemone, pingpongsam
SpaceAnemone (1): AndrewisFTTW
Robz888 (1): LaLight
LaLight (1): Joseph2302
not voting (4): JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888, Dylan32, AndrewisFTTW.
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends Tuesday, March 28th at 5pm forum time.
Andrew is both voting me and not voting. Meanwhile gkrieg has evaporated...
I mean I did unvote...
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Vote Count 1.1
AndrewisFTTW (2): AndrewisFTTW, AndrewisFTTW
AndrewisFTTW (1): AndrewisFTTW
AndrewisFTTW (1): AndrewisFTTW
AndrewisFTTW (1): AndrewisFTTW
not voting (4): AndrewisFTTW, AndrewisFTTW, AndrewisFTTW, AndrewisFTTW.
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends Tuesday, March 28th at 5pm forum time.
FTFY
What? Is there something scummy about my voting pattern?
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Just realized that could be taken the wrong way. I was referencing your vote count, which is accurate.
-
I think for now I'm gonna Vote: Gkrieg because I don't like how in his first few posts it seems like he knows there is a role cop and knows the setup (scum does). Also I have never seen gkrieg come out and talk about setup like this asap
He designed tis setup, of course he has an opinion on it.
Not only that, I was specifically looking for ways that it was broken, and we discussed rolecop a lot actually! I told schadd that this was one of the problems with the setup, but he said that there is at least one setup where the rolecop doesn't really want to claim, and so that is enough of a deterrent for the role cop not to claim.
Menh sure still suspicious though.
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Vote Count 1.1
pingpongsam (2): SpaceAnemone, pingpongsam
SpaceAnemone (1): AndrewisFTTW
Robz888 (1): LaLight
LaLight (1): Joseph2302
not voting (4): JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888, Dylan32, AndrewisFTTW.
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends Tuesday, March 28th at 5pm forum time.
Andrew is both voting me and not voting. Meanwhile gkrieg has evaporated...
solvable in one machine step weooooo
-
Also, a few more people should vote PPS just in case he's bluffing about his conviction that PPS is scum this game.
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M88. You can click a signature on top of the quote :)
That was a billion games ago.
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Also, a few more people should vote PPS just in case he's bluffing about his conviction that PPS is scum this game.
If I am bluffing then I am town and have no real reason to unvote. I am actually scum, I'm not bluffing and then would probably unvote. So, maybe what you were saying was to see if you could force me to unvote, which is probably fine although you should be aware you are entering my frame to do so. Just being clear because I thin what you said and what you meant aren't exactly jiving.
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Also, a few more people should vote PPS just in case he's bluffing about his conviction that PPS is scum this game.
If I am bluffing then I am town and have no real reason to unvote. If I am actually scum, I'm not bluffing and then would probably unvote. So, maybe what you were saying was to see if you could force me to unvote, which is probably fine although you should be aware you are entering my frame to do so. Just being clear because I think what you said and what you meant aren't exactly jiving.
FTFM
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Also, a few more people should vote PPS just in case he's bluffing about his conviction that PPS is scum this game.
If I am bluffing then I am town and have no real reason to unvote. I am actually scum, I'm not bluffing and then would probably unvote. So, maybe what you were saying was to see if you could force me to unvote, which is probably fine although you should be aware you are entering my frame to do so. Just being clear because I thin what you said and what you meant aren't exactly jiving.
I was attempting deliberate humour by implying that I didn't think the subject and object of my observation were the same person even though they were the same name... it's much like the very amusing recent vote count LL posted. Maybe more explanation helps? :-)
In all seriousness, I think you voting yourself is a pretty null PPS-ish thing to do, so I'm not going to get my logic in a twist over it.
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In all seriousness, I think you voting yourself is a pretty null PPS-ish thing to do, so I'm not going to get my logic in a twist over it.
Maybe, because you are relatively new. Or maybe you're scum trying to nix my town vibe because the truth is that scum!PPS would never claim to be scum on D1.
I don't see town narrative for intentionally attenuating anther's attempts at generating a town signal. It's really all town can do at this stage of the game.
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It's really all town can do at this stage of the game.
You mean other than scum-hunting, discussing how to make the setups work to our advantage, seeing how people react to each other's opinions and all that sort of stuff? I also don't see why anyone should interpret you voting for yourself as such a grand townie gesture in the first place.
You still haven't said what you think of the setup, incidentally!
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In all seriousness, I think you voting yourself is a pretty null PPS-ish thing to do, so I'm not going to get my logic in a twist over it.
Maybe, because you are relatively new. Or maybe you're scum trying to nix my town vibe because the truth is that scum!PPS would never claim to be scum on D1.
I don't see town narrative for intentionally attenuating anther's attempts at generating a town signal. It's really all town can do at this stage of the game.
This would have been a much townier thing if your sig wasn't what it is. ;)
I think given his involvement with creating the setup, gkrieg would have probably started with the rc talk early as either alignment, especially since someone else in the game already knew some of his thoughts and would recognize it if he were to try to hide some info/insight he had. However, the way he has done it suggests town to me.
Vote: Joseph
PPE 1
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In all seriousness, I think you voting yourself is a pretty null PPS-ish thing to do, so I'm not going to get my logic in a twist over it.
Maybe, because you are relatively new. Or maybe you're scum trying to nix my town vibe because the truth is that scum!PPS would never claim to be scum on D1.
I don't see town narrative for intentionally attenuating anther's attempts at generating a town signal. It's really all town can do at this stage of the game.
This would have been a much townier thing if your sig wasn't what it is. ;)
I think given his involvement with creating the setup, gkrieg would have probably started with the rc talk early as either alignment, especially since someone else in the game already knew some of his thoughts and would recognize it if he were to try to hide some info/insight he had. However, the way he has done it suggests town to me.
Vote: Joseph
PPE 1
Why?
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Also, a few more people should vote PPS just in case he's bluffing about his conviction that PPS is scum this game.
If I am bluffing then I am town and have no real reason to unvote. I am actually scum, I'm not bluffing and then would probably unvote. So, maybe what you were saying was to see if you could force me to unvote, which is probably fine although you should be aware you are entering my frame to do so. Just being clear because I thin what you said and what you meant aren't exactly jiving.
Is there a hidden jester in this setup??
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In all seriousness, I think you voting yourself is a pretty null PPS-ish thing to do, so I'm not going to get my logic in a twist over it.
Maybe, because you are relatively new. Or maybe you're scum trying to nix my town vibe because the truth is that scum!PPS would never claim to be scum on D1.
I don't see town narrative for intentionally attenuating anther's attempts at generating a town signal. It's really all town can do at this stage of the game.
This would have been a much townier thing if your sig wasn't what it is. ;)
I think given his involvement with creating the setup, gkrieg would have probably started with the rc talk early as either alignment, especially since someone else in the game already knew some of his thoughts and would recognize it if he were to try to hide some info/insight he had. However, the way he has done it suggests town to me.
Vote: Joseph
PPE 1
Why?
Why are you not letting him react to it himself before you try to get a reason out of me?
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In all seriousness, I think you voting yourself is a pretty null PPS-ish thing to do, so I'm not going to get my logic in a twist over it.
Maybe, because you are relatively new. Or maybe you're scum trying to nix my town vibe because the truth is that scum!PPS would never claim to be scum on D1.
I don't see town narrative for intentionally attenuating anther's attempts at generating a town signal. It's really all town can do at this stage of the game.
This would have been a much townier thing if your sig wasn't what it is. ;)
I think given his involvement with creating the setup, gkrieg would have probably started with the rc talk early as either alignment, especially since someone else in the game already knew some of his thoughts and would recognize it if he were to try to hide some info/insight he had. However, the way he has done it suggests town to me.
Vote: Joseph
PPE 1
Why?
Why are you not letting him react to it himself before you try to get a reason out of me?
Why?
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Also, a few more people should vote PPS just in case he's bluffing about his conviction that PPS is scum this game.
Sure. Vote: PPS
Wagon
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It's really all town can do at this stage of the game.
You mean other than scum-hunting, discussing how to make the setups work to our advantage, seeing how people react to each other's opinions and all that sort of stuff? I also don't see why anyone should interpret you voting for yourself as such a grand townie gesture in the first place.
You still haven't said what you think of the setup, incidentally!
This is scum hunting. discussing setups is a very silly exercise for me. I haven't read the setup so I can't comment on it.
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It's really all town can do at this stage of the game.
You mean other than scum-hunting, discussing how to make the setups work to our advantage, seeing how people react to each other's opinions and all that sort of stuff? I also don't see why anyone should interpret you voting for yourself as such a grand townie gesture in the first place.
You still haven't said what you think of the setup, incidentally!
This is scum hunting. discussing setups is a very silly exercise for me. I haven't read the setup so I can't comment on it.
Just clarifying. Do you think it's a silly exercise? Or a silly exercise for YOU?
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Oh, yeah, for me, specifically.
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Okay, I read the setup.
7 possible arrangements in which only 2 can even contain a rolecop and then rolecop returns a vanilla on scum. So why was trying to get a rolecop to claim a good idea?
I tried to think of that from the idea that I am scum and I want town to out the rolecop and it still didn't add up to a good idea. I mean if the rolecop can't actually cop me then why do I care much about him as scum?
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Okay, I read the setup.
Oh jeez, I'm sorry. You don't have to, really!
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Okay, I read the setup.
7 possible arrangements in which only 2 can even contain a rolecop and then rolecop returns a vanilla on scum. So why was trying to get a rolecop to claim a good idea?
I tried to think of that from the idea that I am scum and I want town to out the rolecop and it still didn't add up to a good idea. I mean if the rolecop can't actually cop me then why do I care much about him as scum?
Okay, so getting a rolecop claim is better for town than scum I suppose. The 2 shot Doctor can prevent a NK on the rolecop so claiming is safe and the watcher can spot scum NKing the rolecop. So the claim itself is relatively safe and then if there is a rolecop then the possible arrangements are reduced to only 2 which is more information than town currently has but scum already knew.
Did I do good, do I get a cookie?
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Okay, I read the setup.
7 possible arrangements in which only 2 can even contain a rolecop and then rolecop returns a vanilla on scum. So why was trying to get a rolecop to claim a good idea?
I tried to think of that from the idea that I am scum and I want town to out the rolecop and it still didn't add up to a good idea. I mean if the rolecop can't actually cop me then why do I care much about him as scum?
Okay, so getting a rolecop claim is better for town than scum I suppose. The 2 shot Doctor can prevent a NK on the rolecop so claiming is safe and the watcher can spot scum NKing the rolecop. So the claim itself is relatively safe and then if there is a rolecop then the possible arrangements are reduced to only 2 which is more information than town currently has but scum already knew.
Did I do good, do I get a cookie?
You're about 6 pages late. Here's a 6 page old cookie.
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Okay, I read the setup.
7 possible arrangements in which only 2 can even contain a rolecop and then rolecop returns a vanilla on scum. So why was trying to get a rolecop to claim a good idea?
I tried to think of that from the idea that I am scum and I want town to out the rolecop and it still didn't add up to a good idea. I mean if the rolecop can't actually cop me then why do I care much about him as scum?
Can you count?? There's 3. #2, #3, #5
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Okay, I read the setup.
7 possible arrangements in which only 2 can even contain a rolecop and then rolecop returns a vanilla on scum. So why was trying to get a rolecop to claim a good idea?
I tried to think of that from the idea that I am scum and I want town to out the rolecop and it still didn't add up to a good idea. I mean if the rolecop can't actually cop me then why do I care much about him as scum?
Okay, so getting a rolecop claim is better for town than scum I suppose. The 2 shot Doctor can prevent a NK on the rolecop so claiming is safe and the watcher can spot scum NKing the rolecop. So the claim itself is relatively safe and then if there is a rolecop then the possible arrangements are reduced to only 2 which is more information than town currently has but scum already knew.
Did I do good, do I get a cookie?
You're about 6 pages late. Here's a 6 page old cookie.
So, since no rolecop claimed when apparently it was being made crystal clear to everyone but me that doing so was a great plan can we assume there isn't one and reduce the possible arrangements to five?
Also, are we supposed to award town points to the idea and backers? I recall it being gkrieg and Robz. Please tell me so I can mafia good.
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Okay, I read the setup.
7 possible arrangements in which only 2 can even contain a rolecop and then rolecop returns a vanilla on scum. So why was trying to get a rolecop to claim a good idea?
I tried to think of that from the idea that I am scum and I want town to out the rolecop and it still didn't add up to a good idea. I mean if the rolecop can't actually cop me then why do I care much about him as scum?
Can you count?? There's 3. #2, #3, #5
Now, are you starting to understand why me reading setups is a useless waste of everyone's time?
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Okay, I read the setup.
7 possible arrangements in which only 2 can even contain a rolecop and then rolecop returns a vanilla on scum. So why was trying to get a rolecop to claim a good idea?
I tried to think of that from the idea that I am scum and I want town to out the rolecop and it still didn't add up to a good idea. I mean if the rolecop can't actually cop me then why do I care much about him as scum?
Can you count?? There's 3. #2, #3, #5
Now, are you starting to understand why me reading setups is a useless waste of everyone's time?
Actually you're both wrong, there are four setups with a rolecop. But again, we already beat the dead horse. Now the poor horse is being.... well, nevermind.
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In all seriousness, I think you voting yourself is a pretty null PPS-ish thing to do, so I'm not going to get my logic in a twist over it.
Maybe, because you are relatively new. Or maybe you're scum trying to nix my town vibe because the truth is that scum!PPS would never claim to be scum on D1.
I don't see town narrative for intentionally attenuating anther's attempts at generating a town signal. It's really all town can do at this stage of the game.
This would have been a much townier thing if your sig wasn't what it is. ;)
I think given his involvement with creating the setup, gkrieg would have probably started with the rc talk early as either alignment, especially since someone else in the game already knew some of his thoughts and would recognize it if he were to try to hide some info/insight he had. However, the way he has done it suggests town to me.
Vote: Joseph
PPE 1
Why?
Why are you not letting him react to it himself before you try to get a reason out of me?
Is this your master scumhunting plan? Vote people with no substance and arbitrarily decide whether or not it's scummy?
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Okay, I read the setup.
7 possible arrangements in which only 2 can even contain a rolecop and then rolecop returns a vanilla on scum. So why was trying to get a rolecop to claim a good idea?
I tried to think of that from the idea that I am scum and I want town to out the rolecop and it still didn't add up to a good idea. I mean if the rolecop can't actually cop me then why do I care much about him as scum?
Can you count?? There's 3. #2, #3, #5
Now, are you starting to understand why me reading setups is a useless waste of everyone's time?
Well, the fact that you slipped on maths rather than on something scum-indicative is at least encouraging! I would argue that under certain conditions, forcing you to participate in setup discussion is very high utility for town...
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You have a point. But refusing to do so benefits my scum game which is really the only game that matters.
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Vote: PPS
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In all seriousness, I think you voting yourself is a pretty null PPS-ish thing to do, so I'm not going to get my logic in a twist over it.
Maybe, because you are relatively new. Or maybe you're scum trying to nix my town vibe because the truth is that scum!PPS would never claim to be scum on D1.
I don't see town narrative for intentionally attenuating anther's attempts at generating a town signal. It's really all town can do at this stage of the game.
This would have been a much townier thing if your sig wasn't what it is. ;)
I think given his involvement with creating the setup, gkrieg would have probably started with the rc talk early as either alignment, especially since someone else in the game already knew some of his thoughts and would recognize it if he were to try to hide some info/insight he had. However, the way he has done it suggests town to me.
Vote: Joseph
PPE 1
Why?
Why are you not letting him react to it himself before you try to get a reason out of me?
Is this your master scumhunting plan? Vote people with no substance and arbitrarily decide whether or not it's scummy?
Nope. It was to vote with little (or none in this case) disclosed substance to gauge reactions that can be recalled later when there is more evidence to combine it with, whichever way the evidence points.
And Joseph, I would have liked a bit more than just copying Jake there. Want to try again for me, please?
Jake, this is why you don't answer for other people immediately, because then you give them an easy way out of pressure, which makes sense if you are trying to diffuse potential pressure on a partner or you have a night result which ICs them, which you don't.
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Vote: PPS
You know that's L-1 right?
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Vote: PPS
You know that's L-1 right?
Too bad I can't hammer that guy, I mean, he claimed scum for crying out loud.
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Vote: PPS
You know that's L-1 right?
Too bad I can't hammer that guy, I mean, he claimed scum for crying out loud.
Too bad I don't really want to hammer.
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I actually would hammer but not so early in the day
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Vote: PPS
You know that's L-1 right?
Too bad I can't hammer that guy, I mean, he claimed scum for crying out loud.
Too bad I don't really want to hammer.
What's wrong with hammering?
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Vote: PPS
You know that's L-1 right?
Too bad I can't hammer that guy, I mean, he claimed scum for crying out loud.
Too bad I don't really want to hammer.
What's wrong with hammering?
Pretty simple, if you're town you want a longer D1 and something more informative than a self-vote RVS to hang your hat. If you're scum you recognize the prior sentence and are hesitant to draw the suspicion on yourself for forcing the issue because you know you're going to get a town flip.
But carry on discussing the setup and acting as if this line of play is completely irrelevant.
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Vote: PPS
You know that's L-1 right?
Too bad I can't hammer that guy, I mean, he claimed scum for crying out loud.
Too bad I don't really want to hammer.
What's wrong with hammering?
Pretty simple, if you're town you want a longer D1 and something more informative than a self-vote RVS to hang your hat. If you're scum you recognize the prior sentence and are hesitant to draw the suspicion on yourself for forcing the issue because you know you're going to get a town flip.
But carry on discussing the setup and acting as if this line of play is completely irrelevant.
I wasn't advocated hammering right this moment, I was asking Jake specifically why he didn't like hammering. I guess he meant he didn't want to hammer right now. Way to take everything literally Andrew.
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Vote: PPS
You know that's L-1 right?
Too bad I can't hammer that guy, I mean, he claimed scum for crying out loud.
Too bad I don't really want to hammer.
What's wrong with hammering?
Pretty simple, if you're town you want a longer D1 and something more informative than a self-vote RVS to hang your hat. If you're scum you recognize the prior sentence and are hesitant to draw the suspicion on yourself for forcing the issue because you know you're going to get a town flip.
But carry on discussing the setup and acting as if this line of play is completely irrelevant.
I will hammer at 12:00 forum time. If anyone has any objections please state before then.
I'd usually prefer for more discussion but i dislike D1 so I will hammer.
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Jake can you auto /in to every game I join please?
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Jake can you auto /in to every game I join please?
Maybe?!?!?!? Also I say there's a 45% that pps is a hidden jester
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I will hammer at 12:00 forum time. If anyone has any objections please state before then.
I'd usually prefer for more discussion but i dislike D1 so I will hammer.
I'd like to hear what answer Robz gives to the question you asked about whether he was aware it was L-1 already, so I'd prefer you didn't hammer before he responds. No need to let him off the hook too easily.
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I will hammer at 12:00 forum time. If anyone has any objections please state before then.
I'd usually prefer for more discussion but i dislike D1 so I will hammer.
I'd like to hear what answer Robz gives to the question you asked about whether he was aware it was L-1 already, so I'd prefer you didn't hammer before he responds. No need to let him off the hook too easily.
K
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Wouldn't mind a hammer, but it's probably a tad early for it
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Unvote
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Unvote
Scummy.
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Scum partner didn't save you?
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Scum partner didn't save you?
Or he's trying to save his partner from talking about why he'd put him at L-1?
-
Unvote
???????
Scum
Vote: PPS
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Alright, town on Jake
Ppe: still town on Jake
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Pps looks too scummy imo
-
intent to hammer
-
intent to hammer
Ditto.
You have 3 hours and 43 minutes before I hammer
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intent to hammer
Ditto.
You have 3 hours and 43 minutes before I hammer
Oh wait, I'm already on PPS it seems?
-
Anyway i want to hear from Robz.
-
You guys really want to hammer right this second? This game has been going for like 2 days.
-
3 days I guess.
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Are you even sure he's at L-1?
Can we get a vote count please?
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You guys really want to hammer right this second? This game has been going for like 2 days.
we should just get D1 out of the way asap and if PPS wants to volunteer to end it then he can go ahead and do it.
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I did not realize it was L-1 when I voted for PPS.
I support hammering him.
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Are you even sure he's at L-1?
Can we get a vote count please?
It's L-1
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I did not realize it was L-1 when I voted for PPS.
I support hammering him.
What? But for how why though?
vote: Robz
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I did not realize it was L-1 when I voted for PPS.
I support hammering him.
What? But for how why though?
vote: Robz
He is, by his own admission, scum.
-
Also, this feels like a spontaneous wagon that scum would go "ugh, seriously?" over, rather than a wagon meticulously guided by scum.
-
You guys really want to hammer right this second? This game has been going for like 2 days.
we should just get D1 out of the way asap and if PPS wants to volunteer to end it then he can go ahead and do it.
How much information do you think PPS's flip will give us now, compared to letting D1 run its course more completely and generating a bunch more interactions between players who may or may not then get flipped later?
How likely do you think it is that he'll flip scum if someone hammers now?
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I did not realize it was L-1 when I voted for PPS.
I support hammering him.
What? But for how why though?
vote: Robz
Sorry but I thought you wanted to lynch PPS??? Also can you vote back PPS please?
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Vote Count 1.2
pingpongsam (4): SpaceAnemone, Joseph2302, Robz888, JaketheBaseballGod22
Robz888 (2): LaLight, AndrewisFTTW
Joseph2302 (1): Dylan32
not voting (2): gkrieg13, pingpongsam
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends Tuesday, March 28th at 5pm forum time.
-
You guys really want to hammer right this second? This game has been going for like 2 days.
we should just get D1 out of the way asap and if PPS wants to volunteer to end it then he can go ahead and do it.
How much information do you think PPS's flip will give us now, compared to letting D1 run its course more completely and generating a bunch more interactions between players who may or may not then get flipped later?
How likely do you think it is that he'll flip scum if someone hammers now?
D1 for me at least is not as much about reactions as it is about seeing one flip, wagons, Votes, the NK, Another flip, narrowing of the lynch pool, and possible night actions (if one is a Pr).
-
You guys really want to hammer right this second? This game has been going for like 2 days.
we should just get D1 out of the way asap and if PPS wants to volunteer to end it then he can go ahead and do it.
How much information do you think PPS's flip will give us now, compared to letting D1 run its course more completely and generating a bunch more interactions between players who may or may not then get flipped later?
How likely do you think it is that he'll flip scum if someone hammers now?
I think it's more likely we lynch town if this day continues. The flip will be informational as is, sure.
-
So Space is simultaneously voting for PPS but also scared about PPS actually getting lynched. Scummy.
-
intent to hammer
Send us home, LL!
-
I did not realize it was L-1 when I voted for PPS.
I support hammering him.
What? But for how why though?
vote: Robz
Sorry but I thought you wanted to lynch PPS??? Also can you vote back PPS please?
I was never voting pps.
-
You guys really want to hammer right this second? This game has been going for like 2 days.
we should just get D1 out of the way asap and if PPS wants to volunteer to end it then he can go ahead and do it.
How much information do you think PPS's flip will give us now, compared to letting D1 run its course more completely and generating a bunch more interactions between players who may or may not then get flipped later?
How likely do you think it is that he'll flip scum if someone hammers now?
How likely do you think it is that he'll flip scum if someone hammers later? (I am not condoning a hammer right now)
So Space is simultaneously voting for PPS but also scared about PPS actually getting lynched. Scummy.
Indeed.
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Vote: PPS
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So Space is simultaneously voting for PPS but also scared about PPS actually getting lynched. Scummy.
Indeed.
[/quote]
Space is #2 on my scum list. With PPS being #1
-
So Space is simultaneously voting for PPS but also scared about PPS actually getting lynched. Scummy.
Space is #2 on my scum list. With PPS being #1
-
Nothing happened, schadd. Nothing happened.
-
Vote: PPS
Joseph was already voting for PPS.
-
Nothing happened, schadd. Nothing happened.
What are you doing?
-
Joseph, you tricked schadd! Good one.
I am not hammering before claim.
-
Nothing happened, schadd. Nothing happened.
What are you doing?
Schadd locked the thread for a couple of minutes :)
-
i put "thread locked" after 255, then deleted it. for clarity & stuff
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Joseph, you tricked schadd! Good one.
I am not hammering before claim.
He did. He claimed scum
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i put "thread locked" after 255, then deleted it. for clarity & stuff
GG everybody good game Joseph wins MVP and the game ;) ;) ??? ??? ::) ::)
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I hope you guys got what you needed out of flipping me without doing any scumhunting whatsoever.
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I hope you guys got what you needed out of flipping me without doing any scumhunting whatsoever.
You scum?
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I hope you guys got what you needed out of flipping me without doing any scumhunting whatsoever.
You scum?
As if you would believe any answer other than yes. I mean, you don't really even believe yes, do you? Not if you're smart, you don't.
-
I believe my vote should be on Joseph in the most recent vote count.
History of the pps wagon.
- Starts with a Space rvs vote on pps, who then claims scum and self votes.
- It is basically ignored by everyone else for roughly 140ish posts of setup talk.
- Joseph quotes Space's request that more people vote pps and says in effect, "sure I can do that." (paraphrased)
- A bit later Robz joins the wagon with no explanation and without realizing it is L-1.
- Jake points out the L-1 and says he doesn't really want to hammer.
- LL would hammer but not this early in the day.
- There are a few posts that boil down to Andrew asking Jake why he didn't want to hammer, and Jake flips with the explanation that he dislikes D1 so he is now willing to hammer at 12:00 forum time.
- SA wants to wait for Robz to answer a question about whether or not he realized it was L-1, so Jake agrees to wait until Robz comments to hammer.
- Joseph wouldn't mind a hammer, but thinks it might be a tad early for it.
- pps unvotes
- Andrew calls the unvote scummy, does not vote.
- gkrieg says "Scum partner didn't save you?"
- Space: "Or he's trying to save his partner from talking about why he'd put him at L-1?"
- Jake thinks the unvote is scummy and votes. (L-1)
- LL and Joseph both declare intent to hammer, but wait, Joseph is already on wagon.
- Andrew asks if they are sure they want to hammer right now as the game has only been going on 2--actually 3--days.
- Not sure how to describe this:
You guys really want to hammer right this second? This game has been going for like 2 days.
we should just get D1 out of the way asap and if PPS wants to volunteer to end it then he can go ahead and do it.
- Robz did not realize it was L-1 and does support a hammer.
- Andrew votes Robz.
- Robz pushes for someone to hammer.
- Joseph votes and fakes out the mod.
- LL won't hammer until claim.
- Jake says he already claimed scum.
- PPS says that smart people wouldn't actually believe he was scum.
- I posted this.
Consistently supports wagon: Robz, Joseph.
Supports wagon but not this early or prior to some condition: LaLight
Against wagon but eventually strongly supports wagon: Jake.
Hedgy (leans against wagon): Andrew
Hedgy (leans towards wagon): Space
No real stance at all: gkrieg
Probably regrets decisions (a little bit at least): pps
If you disagree with your placement, say so; but this is how I would evaluate people based off how I read it.
So to the vets in this game, both on and off wagon, my question is this: how likely is pps to actually try a gambit like this as scum?
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I'm not against the wagon I'm against lynching today. And I don't see any "gambit". I see pps making a joke and a bunch of people eagerly trying to lynch him for it for some reason. What that says about his alignment, I don't know.
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I'm not against the wagon I'm against lynching today. And I don't see any "gambit". I see pps making a joke and a bunch of people eagerly trying to lynch him for it for some reason. What that says about his alignment, I don't know.
Well, if you believe pps to be scum, then this would indeed be a gambit, because this is sort of the kind of thing that is "so scummy that scum would never say it." And so if he is town, it is either a joke or an attempt to find scum by analyzing reactions, which is how I'm trying to use it, but I have the added complication of not knowing if he was doing the same. So we could ideally either find his partner, or find both scum with it.
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I'm not against the wagon I'm against lynching today. And I don't see any "gambit". I see pps making a joke and a bunch of people eagerly trying to lynch him for it for some reason. What that says about his alignment, I don't know.
Well, if you believe pps to be scum, then this would indeed be a gambit, because this is sort of the kind of thing that is "so scummy that scum would never say it." And so if he is town, it is either a joke or an attempt to find scum by analyzing reactions, which is how I'm trying to use it, but I have the added complication of not knowing if he was doing the same. So we could ideally either find his partner, or find both scum with it.
I think what you're asking is "who is more likely to make the joke 'I am scum'? Town or scum?" I think the answer is either.
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It was never a joke. I do not regret it in the least.
I start every game as town with some sort of ruse to draw attention to generate reactions for study. I mean, really, there's just not much else to do except let scum control the dialog.
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The idea that I am scum because I said I am is too hard to ignore and too easy to want to believe as true because actually playing the game is pretty hard.
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I believe my vote should be on Joseph in the most recent vote count.
yup
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Why are people characterising me as not supporting the wagon and being hedgey? I know I've been asking questions of others on the wagon, but that's because I think it's probably attractive for scum to want to be on-wagon by now, and I want to probe people's motives.
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vote: PPS
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Was that a hammer this time?
(Sorry.. I have company so I'm phone posting for the evening and can't count very well on here!).
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I do believe that was hammer.
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I intended it to be the hammer.
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thread actually locked
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D1 Final Vote Count
pingpongsam (5): SpaceAnemone, Joseph2302, Robz888, JaketheBaseballGod22, gkrieg13
Robz888 (2): LaLight, AndrewisFTTW
Joseph2302 (1): Dylan32
not voting (1): pingpongsam
With 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch.
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so, while that we have this whole anti-espionage team of supermacromicromacrodetectives, very often we'll have our enemies just introduce themselves, like, "hello. we are representatives of {devious organization} and we are here to wreck your censorship stuff." and so in spite of the fact that we do have a lot of diverse and exciting means of figuring who the bad guys are, if somebody just straight-up says they're the bad guys, it's served us well in the past to just do away with them on the spot.
pingpongsam has been lynched! he was a bathroom hacker, a vanilla townie!
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Night 1 Starts.
(https://wiki.mafiascum.net/images/1/1a/PhaseIcon(Night).png)
Please submit all night actions by Saturday, March 25 at 6pm forum time.
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unfortunately, as we have observed, the enemies we are facing are not without their own means, and they will be able to try to pick one of us off each night. the first they have targeted is this guy, one of the bathroom hackers. lemme tell ya, this guy is loyal. we have run several background checks on him, and he was the good guys every time.
LaLight has been killed in the night! he was a bathroom hacker, a vanilla townie.
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Day 2 Starts.
(http://wiki.mafiascum.net/images/d/d6/PhaseIcon%28Day%29.png)
Vote Count 2.0
not voting (7): Joseph2302, JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888, Dylan32, gkrieg13, SpaceAnemone, AndrewisFTTW
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 2 ends Saturday, April 1st at 6pm forum time.
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thread unlocked
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RIP, PPS & LL :-(
Is the plan for everyone to claim rolecop results as gkreig had suggested? And if so, are there merits to extending it to the other possible role results too?
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Ping?
Where is everyone?
Did schadd kill you all off and forget to tell me? :-(
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Will SA lynch SA?
Anyway, I'll catch up on this later today. I hammered because I thought there was a high likelihood of PPS actually being scum but I guess was wrong. LaLight seems like a strange kill.
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Ping?
Where is everyone?
Did schadd kill you all off and forget to tell me? :-(
I've been V/LA.
And well that hammer was confusing lol.
And why is LL the NK?
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Will SA lynch SA?
Anyway, I'll catch up on this later today. I hammered because I thought there was a high likelihood of PPS actually being scum but I guess was wrong. LaLight seems like a strange kill.
I also thought there was a high likelihood. I think hammering in that situation is pretty townie, actually.
I'm still not a huge fan of SA's naysaying. Vote: Space
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Will SA lynch SA?
Anyway, I'll catch up on this later today. I hammered because I thought there was a high likelihood of PPS actually being scum but I guess was wrong. LaLight seems like a strange kill.
I also thought there was a high likelihood. I think hammering in that situation is pretty townie, actually.
I'm still not a huge fan of SA's naysaying. Vote: Space
Yh I'm not convinced that outing all our PRs is a good idea.
Space, why do you like this idea?
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Will SA lynch SA?
Anyway, I'll catch up on this later today. I hammered because I thought there was a high likelihood of PPS actually being scum but I guess was wrong. LaLight seems like a strange kill.
I also thought there was a high likelihood. I think hammering in that situation is pretty townie, actually.
I'm still not a huge fan of SA's naysaying. Vote: Space
Yh I'm not convinced that outing all our PRs is a good idea.
Space, why do you like this idea?
Outing PRs? What are you talking about? Did you even read Gkrieg's idea?
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Will SA lynch SA?
Huh? There have only been six posts today not including mine and I'm confused as hell by all of them.
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Will SA lynch SA?
Anyway, I'll catch up on this later today. I hammered because I thought there was a high likelihood of PPS actually being scum but I guess was wrong. LaLight seems like a strange kill.
I also thought there was a high likelihood. I think hammering in that situation is pretty townie, actually.
I'm still not a huge fan of SA's naysaying. Vote: Space
You mean naysaying the wagon yesterday? Because I was doing that too.
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Gkrieg and Joseph why do you think LL was a strange kill?
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Will SA lynch SA?
Anyway, I'll catch up on this later today. I hammered because I thought there was a high likelihood of PPS actually being scum but I guess was wrong. LaLight seems like a strange kill.
I also thought there was a high likelihood. I think hammering in that situation is pretty townie, actually.
I'm still not a huge fan of SA's naysaying. Vote: Space
Yh I'm not convinced that outing all our PRs is a good idea.
Space, why do you like this idea?
Like Andrew, I'm confused about what you think I'm asking. I was definitely not suggesting outing PRs, I was suggesting following through on gkreig's plan of having everyone claim the result of a RC night action: the true RC (if they exist) claims a real result, and everyone else makes one up. It preserves useful info for after a flip, and this particular game seems likely to be short enough not to offer the scums much in the way of PoE. My query hed been why we shouldn't just do that for all possible PRs in the setup. Nobody really seemed to engage with that question, though.
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Why are people characterising me as not supporting the wagon and being hedgey?
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I'm fine with the gkrieg and SA idea.
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In fact,
Vote: Joseph
for not paying attention to the setup discussion early D1. Scum knows the setup already, they have no interest in setup discussion.
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Will SA lynch SA?
Huh? There have only been six posts today not including mine and I'm confused as hell by all of them.
Sorry this was a joke from SA's joke post
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In fact,
Vote: Joseph
for not paying attention to the setup discussion early D1. Scum knows the setup already, they have no interest in setup discussion.
I feel like Joseph is scummy more because he was so terribly fluffy all through D1, rather than just for ignoring the set-up discussion. I think the only serious thing he did at all was vote for PPS.
Well, he did say that I'm his second-top scumread after PPS, but even that fails to hold together: if he thought PPS and I were scum, why on earth would I be sitting on PPS's wagon right to the end? That would have been some really ultra-serious early-game bussing, if he really thought we could be a scum team.
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The only 3 PRs that we would all claim for is rolecop, tracker, and watcher, because those are the only three that really matter.
If I were a rolecop, I would've targeted SA and gotten vanilla,
If I were a tracker, I would've targeted SA and seen nothing,
If I were a watcher, I would've targeted SA and seen nothing.
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Huh.. I guess gkrieg really wanted to know what I was up to, targeting me with all those shots :-P
If I were a rolecop, I would've targeted Robz and gotten vanilla,
If I were a tracker, I would've targeted Andrew and seen nothing,
If I were a watcher, I would've targeted Dylan and seen no result.
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If I were a rolecop I would have targeted SA and gotten vanilla
If I were a tracker I would have targeted Joseph and seen nothing.
If I were a watcher I would have watched gkrieg and seen nothing.
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In the interest of actually protecting PR identities, other people need to actually post results that are more than "vanilla" "saw nothing/no result" so in the event someone actually gets a non-vanilla/saw-nothing result, they aren't the only ones sticking out and basically revealing themselves. If everyone does the same thing except the actual PR, this is a self-defeating exercise. I know the plain results are the most likely outcomes, but we do need variety in our claims I would think.
If I were a rolecop, I would have targeted Joseph and gotten jailkeeper.
If I were a tracker, I would have targeted gkrieg and seen him target SA.
If I were a watcher, I would have targeted Robz and seen Jake target him.
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In the interest of actually protecting PR identities, other people need to actually post results that are more than "vanilla" "saw nothing/no result" so in the event someone actually gets a non-vanilla/saw-nothing result, they aren't the only ones sticking out and basically revealing themselves. If everyone does the same thing except the actual PR, this is a self-defeating exercise. I know the plain results are the most likely outcomes, but we do need variety in our claims I would think.
^Yep.
If I were a rolecop, I would have targeted Robz and gotten vanilla.
If I were a tracker, I would have targeted SA and seen him target Dylan.
If I were a watcher, I would have targeted Gkrieg and seen nothing.
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In fact,
Vote: Joseph
for not paying attention to the setup discussion early D1. Scum knows the setup already, they have no interest in setup discussion.
I feel like Joseph is scummy more because he was so terribly fluffy all through D1, rather than just for ignoring the set-up discussion. I think the only serious thing he did at all was vote for PPS.
Well, he did say that I'm his second-top scumread after PPS, but even that fails to hold together: if he thought PPS and I were scum, why on earth would I be sitting on PPS's wagon right to the end? That would have been some really ultra-serious early-game bussing, if he really thought we could be a scum team.
Because scum do do that.
Vote for their scum partner early, just stay on the wagon and hope to get some town cred for it.
And I was just kind of disengaged D1, but that was because I was busy with lots of things that cropped up IRL
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Because scum do do that.
Vote for their scum partner early, just stay on the wagon and hope to get some town cred for it.
Okay, it's funny because you're accusing me of being scummy for seeing the wagon through, and Robz has been hinting that he thinks I was too hesitant, though nobody is backing up exactly why that's the case. It's a bit of a no-win scenario. I mean, fair enough, it's a non-win because we lynched a VT, but honestly, I thought thought there was a good chance he was scum.
And I was just kind of disengaged D1, but that was because I was busy with lots of things that cropped up IRL
So, now that you're awake at sensible-o'clock on a Monday morning, would you like to go back and read up the bits you missed D1, and then do the claim exercise with the rest of us?
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If I were a tracker, I would have targeted SA and seen him target Dylan.
Nope, try again! :-P
(pronoun)
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If I were a tracker, I would have targeted SA and seen him target Dylan.
Nope, try again! :-P
(pronoun)
Oh sorry. I said I wouldn't do that again and I did it again! :-[
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Wow, someone needs to breathe life into this game, but that is always true with smaller games.
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In the interest of actually protecting PR identities, other people need to actually post results that are more than "vanilla" "saw nothing/no result" so in the event someone actually gets a non-vanilla/saw-nothing result, they aren't the only ones sticking out and basically revealing themselves. If everyone does the same thing except the actual PR, this is a self-defeating exercise. I know the plain results are the most likely outcomes, but we do need variety in our claims I would think.
If I were a rolecop, I would have targeted Joseph and gotten jailkeeper.
If I were a tracker, I would have targeted gkrieg and seen him target SA.
If I were a watcher, I would have targeted Robz and seen Jake target him.
Which is why this is a silly exercise and I'm not participating in it.
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I feel like Robz is being really scummy for being so uncooperative and not acting according to the consensus of the town, which is clearly to go through with the claiming exercise. I'm not sure whether that's just frustration at the fact he's going against what most of us agreed, or just that he's being a bit rude about it by describing the plan as "silly", but it makes me feel very bad about him!
Since 5/7 of us had already posted results before he raised any objection to the plan, even though it was first proposed early in D1, I think he's at best unhelpfully disengaged from the game, and at worst he's scum trying to play us to get extra information without saying anything he might possibly be caught out in a lie with, since obviously this makes it really hard for scum to fake-claim later on.
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In the interest of actually protecting PR identities, other people need to actually post results that are more than "vanilla" "saw nothing/no result" so in the event someone actually gets a non-vanilla/saw-nothing result, they aren't the only ones sticking out and basically revealing themselves. If everyone does the same thing except the actual PR, this is a self-defeating exercise. I know the plain results are the most likely outcomes, but we do need variety in our claims I would think.
I disagree with your analysis here. I think there are pros and cons with claiming non-null results for the PRs you have to fabricate. On the pro side, it makes the game more confusing the puzzle through if there's a lot of claimed activity. On the minus side, you go the other way and make the true results stand out because they're null in a forest of true-result noise! I think we actually want to move along something like the actual expectation of the PR results, maybe upping the hit-rate only slightly to account for people's reads... I mean, how often are anyone's reads really good as a PR on N1 anyway?
Accounting for the fact we lost a VT before going into N1, here's a breakdown for each scenario:
Game 1) No claiming PRs at all.
Game 2) RC has a 2/7 chance of hitting a non-null result, and a 1/6 chance of being RBd.
Game 3) RC has a 4/7 chance of hitting a non-null result, and a 1/3 chance of being RBd.
Game 4) Tracker has a 2/7 chance of hitting a non-null result. No RBing.
Game 5) RC has a 2/7 chance of hitting a non-null result. No RBing.
Game 6) RC has a 1/7 chance of hitting a non-null result (which is the Tracker). No RBing.
Game 6) Watcher has a 2/7 chance of hitting a non-null result. No RBing.
Game 7) Watcher has a 1/7-2/7 chance of hitting a non-null result (depending on ninja).
Game 7) Tracker has a 1/7-2/7 chance of hitting a non-null result (depending on ninja).
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Vote Count 2.1
SpaceAnemone (1): Robz888
Joseph2302 (1): AndrewisFTTW
not voting (5): Joseph2302, JaketheBaseballGod22, Dylan32, gkrieg13, SpaceAnemone
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 2 ends Saturday, April 1st at 6pm forum time.
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In the interest of actually protecting PR identities, other people need to actually post results that are more than "vanilla" "saw nothing/no result" so in the event someone actually gets a non-vanilla/saw-nothing result, they aren't the only ones sticking out and basically revealing themselves. If everyone does the same thing except the actual PR, this is a self-defeating exercise. I know the plain results are the most likely outcomes, but we do need variety in our claims I would think.
I disagree with your analysis here. I think there are pros and cons with claiming non-null results for the PRs you have to fabricate. On the pro side, it makes the game more confusing the puzzle through if there's a lot of claimed activity. On the minus side, you go the other way and make the true results stand out because they're null in a forest of true-result noise! I think we actually want to move along something like the actual expectation of the PR results, maybe upping the hit-rate only slightly to account for people's reads... I mean, how often are anyone's reads really good as a PR on N1 anyway?
Accounting for the fact we lost a VT before going into N1, here's a breakdown for each scenario:
Game 1) No claiming PRs at all.
Game 2) RC has a 2/7 chance of hitting a non-null result, and a 1/6 chance of being RBd.
Game 3) RC has a 4/7 chance of hitting a non-null result, and a 1/3 chance of being RBd.
Game 4) Tracker has a 2/7 chance of hitting a non-null result. No RBing.
Game 5) RC has a 2/7 chance of hitting a non-null result. No RBing.
Game 6) RC has a 1/7 chance of hitting a non-null result (which is the Tracker). No RBing.
Game 6) Watcher has a 2/7 chance of hitting a non-null result. No RBing.
Game 7) Watcher has a 1/7-2/7 chance of hitting a non-null result (depending on ninja).
Game 7) Tracker has a 1/7-2/7 chance of hitting a non-null result (depending on ninja).
I see where you are coming from, but if you pay attention to the game state at the time I posted, 3 people had posted and essentially all results were vanilla/null to that point. I said what I said with the hopes that a couple of the remaining people including myself would give more creative results, which in turn would result in roughly an even split of boring vs exciting results (for lack of a better short description). This result would still lean slightly heavy on non-null results, but if one person after my comment went ahead and posted null results, then the proportion would be pretty close to what you are saying.
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In the interest of actually protecting PR identities, other people need to actually post results that are more than "vanilla" "saw nothing/no result" so in the event someone actually gets a non-vanilla/saw-nothing result, they aren't the only ones sticking out and basically revealing themselves. If everyone does the same thing except the actual PR, this is a self-defeating exercise. I know the plain results are the most likely outcomes, but we do need variety in our claims I would think.
If I were a rolecop, I would have targeted Joseph and gotten jailkeeper.
If I were a tracker, I would have targeted gkrieg and seen him target SA.
If I were a watcher, I would have targeted Robz and seen Jake target him.
Which is why this is a silly exercise and I'm not participating in it.
So I read my post to try to figure out what part of what I said could be used as a justification for not participating period rather than just going along with it, but I don't see it.
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I feel like Robz is being really scummy for being so uncooperative and not acting according to the consensus of the town, which is clearly to go through with the claiming exercise. I'm not sure whether that's just frustration at the fact he's going against what most of us agreed, or just that he's being a bit rude about it by describing the plan as "silly", but it makes me feel very bad about him!
Since 5/7 of us had already posted results before he raised any objection to the plan, even though it was first proposed early in D1, I think he's at best unhelpfully disengaged from the game, and at worst he's scum trying to play us to get extra information without saying anything he might possibly be caught out in a lie with, since obviously this makes it really hard for scum to fake-claim later on.
Vote: SA I think this is towny from robz because comeon if you were scum would you really oppose a plan that everyone else like and cast scummynes on your self like this? No you wouldn't. Also this reasoning is silly.
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I feel like Robz is being really scummy for being so uncooperative and not acting according to the consensus of the town, which is clearly to go through with the claiming exercise. I'm not sure whether that's just frustration at the fact he's going against what most of us agreed, or just that he's being a bit rude about it by describing the plan as "silly", but it makes me feel very bad about him!
Since 5/7 of us had already posted results before he raised any objection to the plan, even though it was first proposed early in D1, I think he's at best unhelpfully disengaged from the game, and at worst he's scum trying to play us to get extra information without saying anything he might possibly be caught out in a lie with, since obviously this makes it really hard for scum to fake-claim later on.
Vote: SA I think this is towny from robz because comeon if you were scum would you really oppose a plan that everyone else like and cast scummynes on your self like this? No you wouldn't. Also this reasoning is silly.
I agree with Jake about Robz, but I still think it was scummy how completely apathetic he was about the pps wagon. I don't think SA is scummy just for not coming to this conclusion.
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Here are the pps votes:
Vote: PPS
This vote from SA is RVS and they never moved it. Then SA eggs on a pps wagon based off of pps's scum "claim":
Also, a few more people should vote PPS just in case he's bluffing about his conviction that PPS is scum this game.
Sure. Vote: PPS
Wagon
Then Robz votes without any substance whatsoever and puts pps to L-1 (including pps's vote):
Vote: PPS
pps unvotes himself which cause Jake to put a vote on him for some reason:
Unvote
???????
Scum
Vote: PPS
Then gkrieg hammers.... for some reason:
vote: PPS
Robz's belated reasoning for voting pps:
I did not realize it was L-1 when I voted for PPS.
I support hammering him.
What? But for how why though?
vote: Robz
He is, by his own admission, scum.
Also, this feels like a spontaneous wagon that scum would go "ugh, seriously?" over, rather than a wagon meticulously guided by scum.
Which to me is super weak and feels like "lynch now, logic later". Scummy.
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Honestly to me all of these votes are scummy. As scummy as I find Robz's vote, he is the ONLY ONE TO PROVIDE A REASON FOR VOTING PPS. Obviously not everyone on the wagon is scum. So I just want those who are town on the wagon to know that there is nothing about this wagon that was pro-town. It makes it more difficult for us to analyze the wagon and scumhunt and thus could very well lead to more mislynches. But enough berating, although I do hope you all feel bad now.
Out of all of these I find SA's and Joseph's votes to be the scummiest. SA's vote was RVS and they never even commented on pps's "claim" besides joking about it as a reason to join his wagon. So SA pretty much voted randomly, encouraged more random votes, and then just went along with the wagon because hey, as long as they're town it's totally cool if they get lynched right?
Joseph's vote.... uhhhh.... well there's nothing to go off of besides a vote. Also while rereading I found this:
Vote: LaLight
She's a bit scummy
This was before his pps vote obviously. Would Joseph NK LL after supposedly scumreading him?
Vote: SA
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vote: Andrew for saying everyone is scum based on the PPS wagon
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vote: Andrew for saying everyone is scum based on the PPS wagon
Pfffttt. Please. I didn't say everyone was scum, I said all the votes were scummy.
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I could actually see Jake as scum here.
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I could actually see Jake as scum here.
Why? He has been significantly quieter than normal I guess, but is that enough of a difference to be scummy for him?
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Vote Count 2.1
SpaceAnemone (1): Robz888
Joseph2302 (1): AndrewisFTTW
not voting (5): Joseph2302, JaketheBaseballGod22, Dylan32, gkrieg13, SpaceAnemone
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 2 ends Saturday, April 1st at 6pm forum time.
I thought I was voting Space, apparently not....
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I could actually see Jake as scum here.
Why? He has been significantly quieter than normal I guess, but is that enough of a difference to be scummy for him?
Jake is in this game?
When did Jake start playing quietly?
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Jake is in this game?
Yeah, and he's made more posts and been more involved in actual game-play than you have!
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Jake is in this game?
Yeah, and he's made more posts and been more involved in actual game-play than you have!
So has just about everyone.
I've had a lot more IRL stuff than I anticipated.
I should get round to this game tomorrow
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I should get round to this game tomorrow
I'm going to be VLA from Thursday morning till mid-afternoon (UK time) on Sunday. I think this might be a proper no-internet-access VLA, because the place I'm going appears to have only paid wifi access and very spotty reception on my mobile provider's coverage map :-( I'll try to read along when possible, but I find phone posting to be very fiddly even when there's reliable signal. (When the signal is unreliable, there's even less incentive to struggle through the composition of words on the screen in case the ether eats them all).
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In the interest of actually protecting PR identities, other people need to actually post results that are more than "vanilla" "saw nothing/no result" so in the event someone actually gets a non-vanilla/saw-nothing result, they aren't the only ones sticking out and basically revealing themselves. If everyone does the same thing except the actual PR, this is a self-defeating exercise. I know the plain results are the most likely outcomes, but we do need variety in our claims I would think.
If I were a rolecop, I would have targeted Joseph and gotten jailkeeper.
If I were a tracker, I would have targeted gkrieg and seen him target SA.
If I were a watcher, I would have targeted Robz and seen Jake target him.
Which is why this is a silly exercise and I'm not participating in it.
So I read my post to try to figure out what part of what I said could be used as a justification for not participating period rather than just going along with it, but I don't see it.
My take on it is that he's agreeing with you that it's risky to town if all the players don't actively play along, because we risk outing our PRs. This is true to a small degree, but I think the chance of preserving PR information and the fact that this makes brazen fake-claiming hard for scum to manufacture in the late game are both arguments in favour of going ahead with the exercise in general.
I've also thought of a new argument in favour of your point, actually. Scum has a slight incentive to try to kill off PRs with "interesting" results that don't incriminate them, because flipping those people could give them actual information about other non-scum players. I think it's worth mentioning because several of our possible game scenarios have a doctor present, and I'd like to know that they're potentially aware of this.
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Out of all of these I find SA's and Joseph's votes to be the scummiest. SA's vote was RVS and they never even commented on pps's "claim" besides joking about it as a reason to join his wagon. So SA pretty much voted randomly, encouraged more random votes, and then just went along with the wagon because hey, as long as they're town it's totally cool if they get lynched right?
What was actually on my mind during the long period in which I didn't unvote was that I get scum-read all the time for being cautious. Take a look at the opening of Stranger Things (RMM 40), where I got scum-read particularly for unvoting on an early-game PPS wagon!
I think PPS is a very strong scum player. He was my buddy in the first of my scum games, so he's kind of the uberscum to me. And while my RVS vote on him was random in the sense of me having no in-game info to base the vote on, my choice of person was based on the fact that I see him as dangerous. When it looked like he was WIFOMing at us in a way I found hard to read, and definitely not conf!towny, seeing the wagon through seemed like totally reasonable play from my point of view.
So in this instance, he flipped town, which is disappointing. I agree that it's even possible it was a wagon comprised mostly of town. However, I feel like Joseph's vote on it was pretty scummy, and I really don't feel good about Robz's play at all.
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So here's a bit more on why I find Robz scummy. He's clearly not been reading the game very much, which is sort of fine, given that he's got a sort-of-VLA in force. But he's still pushing the idea that I'm scummy, based off of pretty much nothing at all, and that is not good.
Robz at #249:
So Space is simultaneously voting for PPS but also scared about PPS actually getting lynched. Scummy.
No context was given for his statement, but I think he's referring to my questioning of Jake here:
You guys really want to hammer right this second? This game has been going for like 2 days.
we should just get D1 out of the way asap and if PPS wants to volunteer to end it then he can go ahead and do it.
How much information do you think PPS's flip will give us now, compared to letting D1 run its course more completely and generating a bunch more interactions between players who may or may not then get flipped later?
-- is Robz misundertanding the purpose of the questions I'd set out for Jake? Jake was putting forward some clearly-questionable reasoning. Scum!Jake could think that asserting a wish to be out of D1 would be generally supported by town players who find game openings difficult (I'm one of them), but town players should agree that getting further information from player interactions was valuable, to give us some context in which to analyse the flip.
The only other post of mine I can see Robz having meant was this one:
I will hammer at 12:00 forum time. If anyone has any objections please state before then.
I'd usually prefer for more discussion but i dislike D1 so I will hammer.
I'd like to hear what answer Robz gives to the question you asked about whether he was aware it was L-1 already, so I'd prefer you didn't hammer before he responds. No need to let him off the hook too easily.
Again, it's an interaction between me and Jake where I'm just working to curb Jake's overenthusiasm for a premature end of D1 without letting us hear from all the people involved. In this case, Robz had come in and put PPS at an unannounced L-1, and it's far from scummy of me to want to make sure he's forced to explain himself!
Then there's me at #274, near the end of D1:
Why are people characterising me as not supporting the wagon and being hedgey? I know I've been asking questions of others on the wagon, but that's because I think it's probably attractive for scum to want to be on-wagon by now, and I want to probe people's motives.
I mean, the fact I was trying to ask questions to extract useful responses from players should be obvious for anyone reading my posts! However, I can absolutely see scum!Robz, who's used to me being more selfconsciously hedgey in other games, trying to use my previous play style to score quick points.
This was followed early D2 by Robz at #290, still scum-reading me, now for "naysaying":
I'm still not a huge fan of SA's naysaying. Vote: Space
I quoted my #274 post again at #297 because Robz totally ignored it. He's still ignoring it, or refusing to engage.
Vote: Robz
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Vote: LaLight
She's a bit scummy
This was before his pps vote obviously. Would Joseph NK LL after supposedly scumreading him?
Vote: SA
The post you're quoting is #155, which is early. Joseph later said at #254 (which is like twice as far into the game, given that the first game post was #53) that PPS and I were his top scumreads. I already explained my issue with how much logic-twisting Joseph must've had to do for that to make sense back at #301, but that's not relevant just here.
Anyway, combine that with the fact that LL had been townslipping to various degrees, and that several people had declared a town read on him (gkrieg@#131, Robz@#145), I think he's not that weird an NK even for a scum-team containing Joseph. After all, there are presumably two scums directing things in their QT, so the NK decision wouldn't be made by Josef in isolation anyway.
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Oh, and the reason I'm going back to Andrew's content now is that he's been posting fluffy stuff elsewhere on the forum, so he's clearly around but not commenting on or reacting to any of the other issues I've been raising about this game today. And I'm getting frustrated because nobody is technically eligible for a prod request :-P
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Oh, and the reason I'm going back to Andrew's content now is that he's been posting fluffy stuff elsewhere on the forum, so he's clearly around but not commenting on or reacting to any of the other issues I've been raising about this game today. And I'm getting frustrated because nobody is technically eligible for a prod request :-P
I've skimmed what you've written but haven't been motivated to get into this yet today. I'll check it out after lunch. K bai!
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vote: Robz. Space for president.
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I've also thought of a new argument in favour of your point, actually. Scum has a slight incentive to try to kill off PRs with "interesting" results that don't incriminate them, because flipping those people could give them actual information about other non-scum players. I think it's worth mentioning because several of our possible game scenarios have a doctor present, and I'd like to know that they're potentially aware of this.
I'm kinda confused by this. Killing people with "interesting" but non-incriminating results give information about town players? Can you explain what you mean by this?
Out of all of these I find SA's and Joseph's votes to be the scummiest. SA's vote was RVS and they never even commented on pps's "claim" besides joking about it as a reason to join his wagon. So SA pretty much voted randomly, encouraged more random votes, and then just went along with the wagon because hey, as long as they're town it's totally cool if they get lynched right?
What was actually on my mind during the long period in which I didn't unvote was that I get scum-read all the time for being cautious. Take a look at the opening of Stranger Things (RMM 40), where I got scum-read particularly for unvoting on an early-game PPS wagon!
I think PPS is a very strong scum player. He was my buddy in the first of my scum games, so he's kind of the uberscum to me. And while my RVS vote on him was random in the sense of me having no in-game info to base the vote on, my choice of person was based on the fact that I see him as dangerous. When it looked like he was WIFOMing at us in a way I found hard to read, and definitely not conf!towny, seeing the wagon through seemed like totally reasonable play from my point of view.
So in this instance, he flipped town, which is disappointing. I agree that it's even possible it was a wagon comprised mostly of town. However, I feel like Joseph's vote on it was pretty scummy, and I really don't feel good about Robz's play at all.
This isn't necessarily something that makes you townier. You were previously called scummy for unvoting so now you decide not to unvote so you look towny. I get how you would see this as a lose-lose situation and I can't speak to the incident in RMM40, but what's more important? You being seen as towny? Or not lynching town? If you're scum it would obviously be the former, which is what you chose. I agree about Joseph and Robz's votes.
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I've also thought of a new argument in favour of your point, actually. Scum has a slight incentive to try to kill off PRs with "interesting" results that don't incriminate them, because flipping those people could give them actual information about other non-scum players. I think it's worth mentioning because several of our possible game scenarios have a doctor present, and I'd like to know that they're potentially aware of this.
I'm kinda confused by this. Killing people with "interesting" but non-incriminating results give information about town players? Can you explain what you mean by this?
Yeah, leat's take Dylan's response:
If I were a rolecop, I would have targeted Joseph and gotten jailkeeper.
If I were a tracker, I would have targeted gkrieg and seen him target SA.
If I were a watcher, I would have targeted Robz and seen Jake target him.
Now hypothesize a scum-team of Robz and Joseph. They know what version of the game we're in because each version has a different configuration of scums. So say they know we're in game 7, with a watcher and a tracker. Dylan having interesting information on offer means that he's a more interesting flip to them. If he happens to flip tracker, they know gkrieg is the watcher, and if he flips watcher, they know Jake is the tracker. If it's an Andrew-Jake scum-team and they hadn't worked this out for themselves, then I'm really sorry to town for spelling it out for them, but I don't think it's too hard to work that part out, is it?
Out of all of these I find SA's and Joseph's votes to be the scummiest. SA's vote was RVS and they never even commented on pps's "claim" besides joking about it as a reason to join his wagon. So SA pretty much voted randomly, encouraged more random votes, and then just went along with the wagon because hey, as long as they're town it's totally cool if they get lynched right?
What was actually on my mind during the long period in which I didn't unvote was that I get scum-read all the time for being cautious. Take a look at the opening of Stranger Things (RMM 40), where I got scum-read particularly for unvoting on an early-game PPS wagon!
I think PPS is a very strong scum player. He was my buddy in the first of my scum games, so he's kind of the uberscum to me. And while my RVS vote on him was random in the sense of me having no in-game info to base the vote on, my choice of person was based on the fact that I see him as dangerous. When it looked like he was WIFOMing at us in a way I found hard to read, and definitely not conf!towny, seeing the wagon through seemed like totally reasonable play from my point of view.
So in this instance, he flipped town, which is disappointing. I agree that it's even possible it was a wagon comprised mostly of town. However, I feel like Joseph's vote on it was pretty scummy, and I really don't feel good about Robz's play at all.
This isn't necessarily something that makes you townier. You were previously called scummy for unvoting so now you decide not to unvote so you look towny. I get how you would see this as a lose-lose situation and I can't speak to the incident in RMM40, but what's more important? You being seen as towny? Or not lynching town? If you're scum it would obviously be the former, which is what you chose. I agree about Joseph and Robz's votes.
Okay, so we need better terminology here. Let's use "scummy" just to mean "something indicative of a person actually being scum", and "anti-town" to mean "did something that appears not to have been in the best interests of town". I think when you called all our votes on PPS scummy, you mostly meant anti-town, yes?
Now, an action can be anti-town and still be performed by a town player, but usually what gets someone scum-read is performing an action that isn't necessarily in the best interests of town. So when I'm scum-read in one game for doing something several other players disapproved of in terms of good town play, I'm going to internalize that and try to do better in subsequent games. I can categorically state that there's nothing scummy about that progression, because I was town then and I'm town now.
At the same time, there's nothing mutually exclusive about on the one hand acting in a towny way that tries to broadcast to the other town players that I'm on their side and on the other hand trying not to lynch town. As we've seen (from the things Robz was apparently scum-reading me for!), I was asking questions of the people on PPS's wagon, and trying to get better reads on people while also being on the wagon. And PoE for a weird wagon ought to be easier to do from the inside, though right now I'm finding it hard to narrow down my scum-reads.
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vote: Jake
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vote: Jake
Why?
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I'll do some explaining later. I think you are a talented scum player. And you are too under the radar while still dictating lots this game.
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Vote Count 2.2
SpaceAnemone (3): Robz888, JaketheBaseballGod22, AndrewisFTTW
Robz888 (2): SpaceAnemone, Dylan32
JaketheBaseballGod22 (1): gkrieg13
not voting (1): Joseph2302
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 2 ends Saturday, April 1st at 6pm forum time.
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People, this game is sloooooow!
Let's take a look at the player list:
pingpongsam -- lynched. He has excuses for being quiet. Or for ranting at us all in the speccy.
Joseph2302 -- Is now missing long enough to be prodable, and was barely engaged earlier anyway.
JaketheBaseballGod22 -- Uncharacteristically quiet, which didn't actually imply good things in ZM23 (though I'd welcome it if this is a turn of events in which town!Jake is equally able to play maturely now).
Robz888 -- Appears to be genuinely VLA, but certainly has issues to account for when he's back.
Dylan32 -- Seems to be talking the most sense out of any of you lot.
gkrieg13 -- has promised some extra explaining later.
LaLight -- NKd. Several people did the "wow, weird kill" dance, but our vets were townreading him D1, so how weird is it really?
SpaceAnemone -- Spaaaaaaace :-)
AndrewisFTTW -- His posting history shows he's active elsewhere, but is choosing not to respond to me and to leave his unannounced L-1 vote on me.
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I'm not choosing to ignore you, I'm choosing not to obsessively check in on this game and read and respond to everything immediately like I have done before, and I'm enjoying this slower pace. Besides, I've been a little busy. I'm about to walk into a museum right now!
Oh and sorry for the unannounced L-1, I didn't notice. I keep forgetting there are only 7 of us in this game right now.
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Oh and sorry for the unannounced L-1, I didn't notice. I keep forgetting there are only 7 of us in this game right now.
... so you're celebrating the nice slow pace of the game as an excuse not to engage, and just to leave your vote at L-1? Like you genuinely believe I'm the biggest scum threat here right now?
And since there are only 7 of us in the game, it means people have to talk more, not less!
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People, this game is sloooooow!
Let's take a look at the player list:
pingpongsam -- lynched. He has excuses for being quiet. Or for ranting at us all in the speccy.
Joseph2302 -- Is now missing long enough to be prodable, and was barely engaged earlier anyway.
JaketheBaseballGod22 -- Uncharacteristically quiet, which didn't actually imply good things in ZM23 (though I'd welcome it if this is a turn of events in which town!Jake is equally able to play maturely now).
Robz888 -- Appears to be genuinely VLA, but certainly has issues to account for when he's back.
Dylan32 -- Seems to be talking the most sense out of any of you lot.
gkrieg13 -- has promised some extra explaining later.
LaLight -- NKd. Several people did the "wow, weird kill" dance, but our vets were townreading him D1, so how weird is it really?
SpaceAnemone -- Spaaaaaaace :-)
AndrewisFTTW -- His posting history shows he's active elsewhere, but is choosing not to respond to me and to leave his unannounced L-1 vote on me.
Tonight I will post as promised.
Literally my last week has been an absolute nightmare for time
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I've been kind of following the game, but gonna reread properly tonight
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People, this game is sloooooow!
Let's take a look at the player list:
pingpongsam -- lynched. He has excuses for being quiet. Or for ranting at us all in the speccy.
Joseph2302 -- Is now missing long enough to be prodable, and was barely engaged earlier anyway.
JaketheBaseballGod22 -- Uncharacteristically quiet, which didn't actually imply good things in ZM23 (though I'd welcome it if this is a turn of events in which town!Jake is equally able to play maturely now).
Robz888 -- Appears to be genuinely VLA, but certainly has issues to account for when he's back.
Dylan32 -- Seems to be talking the most sense out of any of you lot.
gkrieg13 -- has promised some extra explaining later.
LaLight -- NKd. Several people did the "wow, weird kill" dance, but our vets were townreading him D1, so how weird is it really?
SpaceAnemone -- Spaaaaaaace :-)
AndrewisFTTW -- His posting history shows he's active elsewhere, but is choosing not to respond to me and to leave his unannounced L-1 vote on me.
I agree that people were townreading him, but I didn't feel like he did anything overly townie D-1. I mean, he was a solid read for me. Thinking more about it, it might mean a couple of things. He was probably the towniest D1, so maybe scum isn't worried about a doctor or a JK, or a watcher. Or, on the flip side, it didn't seem like he was a PR, and in the setup with 2 goons, I think they want to keep the PRs alive.
Jake just seems like his is specifically not trying to start too many conflicts, which is why I think he is scum. It is similar to his play in that game that he was scum and no one suspected him.
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So I just reread Joseph and Robz, and there isn't a whole lot from either. Robz came off slightly scummier, but he is VLA, so unless more people think he would actually be a good lynch right now, unvote. I would vote for Joseph, but I am comfortable waiting for his promised post tonight to give him a chance, since it was mostly just a lack of content. Andrew's last post is slightly scummy. I don't know why town would be comfortable with a slow pace most of the time. Gkrieg's case on Jake makes sense too. Jake, post more.
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Speaking of slow, the line in this museum is ridiculous. But really I'm a lot more active in this game than some other people so I don't even know why you guys are complaining.
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Speaking of slow, the line in this museum is ridiculous. But really I'm a lot more active in this game than some other people so I don't even know why you guys are complaining.
My comment wasn't related to your actual activity level, just the "enjoying the slower pace" comment. I've never seen town happy about a low activity game.
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Speaking of slow, the line in this museum is ridiculous. But really I'm a lot more active in this game than some other people so I don't even know why you guys are complaining.
My comment wasn't related to your actual activity level, just the "enjoying the slower pace" comment. I've never seen town happy about a low activity game.
I didn't mean the pace of the game, rather me taking things a little easier.
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So I just reread Joseph and Robz, and there isn't a whole lot from either. Robz came off slightly scummier, but he is VLA, so unless more people think he would actually be a good lynch right now, unvote. I would vote for Joseph, but I am comfortable waiting for his promised post tonight to give him a chance, since it was mostly just a lack of content. Andrew's last post is slightly scummy. I don't know why town would be comfortable with a slow pace most of the time. Gkrieg's case on Jake makes sense too. Jake, post more.
It is also strange that Jake hasn't posted since I explained my vote on him, when he has been online.
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So I just reread Joseph and Robz, and there isn't a whole lot from either. Robz came off slightly scummier, but he is VLA, so unless more people think he would actually be a good lynch right now, unvote. I would vote for Joseph, but I am comfortable waiting for his promised post tonight to give him a chance, since it was mostly just a lack of content. Andrew's last post is slightly scummy. I don't know why town would be comfortable with a slow pace most of the time. Gkrieg's case on Jake makes sense too. Jake, post more.
It is also strange that Jake hasn't posted since I explained my vote on him, when he has been online.
Well I just jumped online although my computer is always on which might explain why but just because I'm trying to play a more slower game so that I'm not lynched D-1. Oh and sorry for the unannounced L-1, I didn't notice. I keep forgetting there are only 7 of us in this game right now.
... so you're celebrating the nice slow pace of the game as an excuse not to engage, and just to leave your vote at L-1? Like you genuinely believe I'm the biggest scum threat here right now?
And since there are only 7 of us in the game, it means people have to talk more, not less!
ummmm just because your not "the biggest scum threat in this game right now" (not sure about this) doesn't mean your not scum. Also gkrieg your case is true but just because I've been scum the last two games since i changed my play style doesn't mean I'm scum this game so really the case is invalid.
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People, this game is sloooooow!
Let's take a look at the player list:
pingpongsam -- lynched. He has excuses for being quiet. Or for ranting at us all in the speccy.
Joseph2302 -- Is now missing long enough to be prodable, and was barely engaged earlier anyway.
JaketheBaseballGod22 -- Uncharacteristically quiet, which didn't actually imply good things in ZM23 (though I'd welcome it if this is a turn of events in which town!Jake is equally able to play maturely now).
Robz888 -- Appears to be genuinely VLA, but certainly has issues to account for when he's back.
Dylan32 -- Seems to be talking the most sense out of any of you lot.
gkrieg13 -- has promised some extra explaining later.
LaLight -- NKd. Several people did the "wow, weird kill" dance, but our vets were townreading him D1, so how weird is it really?
SpaceAnemone -- Spaaaaaaace :-)
AndrewisFTTW -- His posting history shows he's active elsewhere, but is choosing not to respond to me and to leave his unannounced L-1 vote on me.
Seems to be talking the least since by thinking that your town.
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So I just reread Joseph and Robz, and there isn't a whole lot from either. Robz came off slightly scummier, but he is VLA, so unless more people think he would actually be a good lynch right now, unvote. I would vote for Joseph, but I am comfortable waiting for his promised post tonight to give him a chance, since it was mostly just a lack of content. Andrew's last post is slightly scummy. I don't know why town would be comfortable with a slow pace most of the time. Gkrieg's case on Jake makes sense too. Jake, post more.
This is actually pretty accurate to my thoughts right now.
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Jake, you just make me lol in the middle of class by saying I'm making the least sense and yet agreeing with basically all my other thoughts haha.
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So I just reread Joseph and Robz, and there isn't a whole lot from either. Robz came off slightly scummier, but he is VLA, so unless more people think he would actually be a good lynch right now, unvote. I would vote for Joseph, but I am comfortable waiting for his promised post tonight to give him a chance, since it was mostly just a lack of content. Andrew's last post is slightly scummy. I don't know why town would be comfortable with a slow pace most of the time. Gkrieg's case on Jake makes sense too. Jake, post more.
It is also strange that Jake hasn't posted since I explained my vote on him, when he has been online.
Well I just jumped online although my computer is always on which might explain why but just because I'm trying to play a more slower game so that I'm not lynched D-1. Oh and sorry for the unannounced L-1, I didn't notice. I keep forgetting there are only 7 of us in this game right now.
... so you're celebrating the nice slow pace of the game as an excuse not to engage, and just to leave your vote at L-1? Like you genuinely believe I'm the biggest scum threat here right now?
And since there are only 7 of us in the game, it means people have to talk more, not less!
ummmm just because your not "the biggest scum threat in this game right now" (not sure about this) doesn't mean your not scum. Also gkrieg your case is true but just because I've been scum the last two games since i changed my play style doesn't mean I'm scum this game so really the case is invalid.
I think this is a classic scum defense. Saying that someone's case is true but invalid. If you were town, you would just say that you are playing a different game from your scum games, instead of saying that you are playing your exact play style you play as scum, but this time you are town.
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Reread starts here with D1:
Space jumps straight in with setup talk- that's kind of towny, as RVs is random and not usually that helpful
#59 - PPS claims scum
#62 - gkrieg has clearly thought a lot about the setup and how to protect rolecop. Then suggested a possible rolecop claim. Seemed a bit too early for that IMO. Jake also thinks they should claim D2
Wow straight into the setup talk.
That's unusual.
I'll try and contribute today, although my time management skills are poor.
I was wondering where my fellow Brit had gone, now that it's all daytime-y over here.
Poor time management is what leads to too much forum time, no?
Nah, poor time management tends to lead to me double and triple booking things, and having no time for mafia. :(
#105 - LaLight RVs for me, despite saying that he doesn't like RVs
#136- Robz ranked the setups for how good they are for town. And then LL and Robz argued about whether he was actually being useful or not
#182- Space encouraged voting PPS "just in case he's bluffing about his conviction that PPS is scum this game". Which I then did. And Robz did.
Then some hammering discussion with Andrew/Jake/LL, followed by PPs unvoting, jake voting, me fakehammering and then gkrieg actually hammering
Final vote count was:
D1 Final Vote Count
pingpongsam (5): SpaceAnemone, Joseph2302, Robz888, JaketheBaseballGod22, gkrieg13
Robz888 (2): LaLight, AndrewisFTTW
Joseph2302 (1): Dylan32
not voting (1): pingpongsam
With 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch.
So the mislynchers were Space, me, Robz, Jake & gkrieg
There's 2 scum in the game, I assume at least 1 of the scum is in that list
PPE: 5?
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My main thoughts on that are:
- Why did PPS spend the whole day claiming scum? It never works.
- When did Jake become much quieter? I'm not convinced this is a scum tell though.
- Why did gkrieg hammer exactly when he did?
- That wagon seemed far too easy, including PPS there were 7 people that kind of supported the wagon (LL did as well)
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I intend to do D2 reads later
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So the mislynchers were Space, me, Robz, Jake & gkrieg
There's 2 scum in the game, I assume at least 1 of the scum is in that list
PPE: 5?
So you are just saying that you don't think the team is Andrew/Dylan.
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So the mislynchers were Space, me, Robz, Jake & gkrieg
There's 2 scum in the game, I assume at least 1 of the scum is in that list
PPE: 5?
So you are just saying that you don't think the team is Andrew/Dylan.
Heh.. that's exactly what I was thinking. LL being off-wagon and town is possibly another reason he made a good night target, actually -- if we actually have two scums on-wagon, they'll need to be careful about allowing PoE on there.
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So the mislynchers were Space, me, Robz, Jake & gkrieg
There's 2 scum in the game, I assume at least 1 of the scum is in that list
PPE: 5?
So you are just saying that you don't think the team is Andrew/Dylan.
Heh.. that's exactly what I was thinking. LL being off-wagon and town is possibly another reason he made a good night target, actually -- if we actually have two scums on-wagon, they'll need to be careful about allowing PoE on there.
This is something I always think scum does when I'm town, but never actually do when I'm scum
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So the mislynchers were Space, me, Robz, Jake & gkrieg
There's 2 scum in the game, I assume at least 1 of the scum is in that list
PPE: 5?
So you are just saying that you don't think the team is Andrew/Dylan.
Yes. Probably should have checked the off-wagon.
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So the mislynchers were Space, me, Robz, Jake & gkrieg
There's 2 scum in the game, I assume at least 1 of the scum is in that list
PPE: 5?
So you are just saying that you don't think the team is Andrew/Dylan.
Heh.. that's exactly what I was thinking. LL being off-wagon and town is possibly another reason he made a good night target, actually -- if we actually have two scums on-wagon, they'll need to be careful about allowing PoE on there.
This is something I always think scum does when I'm town, but never actually do when I'm scum
So the possible N1 lynch candidates then would have been LL as the most experienced off-wagon player, or the lazy choice of most experienced players (which would be gkrieg & Robz I guess)
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ummmm just because your not "the biggest scum threat in this game right now" (not sure about this) doesn't mean your not scum.
I'm the person who's one vote away from being lynched right now, thanks specifically to Andrew. He can just about get away with putting me to an unannounced L-1 by claiming this is his careless laid-back game-play and he didn't realise. However leaving me there now that he's admitted he's fully aware that it's L-1, is not good play for town at all unless he actually thinks I'm really a threat. OTOH, if he's scum waiting for a derphammer, it makes much more sense.
Also, I think gkreig's point about your retort not coming from a very towny-seeming place is also accurate.
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I've also thought of a new argument in favour of your point, actually. Scum has a slight incentive to try to kill off PRs with "interesting" results that don't incriminate them, because flipping those people could give them actual information about other non-scum players. I think it's worth mentioning because several of our possible game scenarios have a doctor present, and I'd like to know that they're potentially aware of this.
I'm kinda confused by this. Killing people with "interesting" but non-incriminating results give information about town players? Can you explain what you mean by this?
Yeah, leat's take Dylan's response:
If I were a rolecop, I would have targeted Joseph and gotten jailkeeper.
If I were a tracker, I would have targeted gkrieg and seen him target SA.
If I were a watcher, I would have targeted Robz and seen Jake target him.
Now hypothesize a scum-team of Robz and Joseph. They know what version of the game we're in because each version has a different configuration of scums. So say they know we're in game 7, with a watcher and a tracker. Dylan having interesting information on offer means that he's a more interesting flip to them. If he happens to flip tracker, they know gkrieg is the watcher, and if he flips watcher, they know Jake is the tracker. If it's an Andrew-Jake scum-team and they hadn't worked this out for themselves, then I'm really sorry to town for spelling it out for them, but I don't think it's too hard to work that part out, is it?
I think I understand what you mean. But it's a moot point anyway since everyone already posted results I think except for Robz, who isn't playing along.
Out of all of these I find SA's and Joseph's votes to be the scummiest. SA's vote was RVS and they never even commented on pps's "claim" besides joking about it as a reason to join his wagon. So SA pretty much voted randomly, encouraged more random votes, and then just went along with the wagon because hey, as long as they're town it's totally cool if they get lynched right?
What was actually on my mind during the long period in which I didn't unvote was that I get scum-read all the time for being cautious. Take a look at the opening of Stranger Things (RMM 40), where I got scum-read particularly for unvoting on an early-game PPS wagon!
I think PPS is a very strong scum player. He was my buddy in the first of my scum games, so he's kind of the uberscum to me. And while my RVS vote on him was random in the sense of me having no in-game info to base the vote on, my choice of person was based on the fact that I see him as dangerous. When it looked like he was WIFOMing at us in a way I found hard to read, and definitely not conf!towny, seeing the wagon through seemed like totally reasonable play from my point of view.
So in this instance, he flipped town, which is disappointing. I agree that it's even possible it was a wagon comprised mostly of town. However, I feel like Joseph's vote on it was pretty scummy, and I really don't feel good about Robz's play at all.
This isn't necessarily something that makes you townier. You were previously called scummy for unvoting so now you decide not to unvote so you look towny. I get how you would see this as a lose-lose situation and I can't speak to the incident in RMM40, but what's more important? You being seen as towny? Or not lynching town? If you're scum it would obviously be the former, which is what you chose. I agree about Joseph and Robz's votes.
Okay, so we need better terminology here. Let's use "scummy" just to mean "something indicative of a person actually being scum", and "anti-town" to mean "did something that appears not to have been in the best interests of town". I think when you called all our votes on PPS scummy, you mostly meant anti-town, yes?
Now, an action can be anti-town and still be performed by a town player, but usually what gets someone scum-read is performing an action that isn't necessarily in the best interests of town. So when I'm scum-read in one game for doing something several other players disapproved of in terms of good town play, I'm going to internalize that and try to do better in subsequent games. I can categorically state that there's nothing scummy about that progression, because I was town then and I'm town now.
At the same time, there's nothing mutually exclusive about on the one hand acting in a towny way that tries to broadcast to the other town players that I'm on their side and on the other hand trying not to lynch town. As we've seen (from the things Robz was apparently scum-reading me for!), I was asking questions of the people on PPS's wagon, and trying to get better reads on people while also being on the wagon. And PoE for a weird wagon ought to be easier to do from the inside, though right now I'm finding it hard to narrow down my scum-reads.
[/quote]
Fair enough. Maybe it's just me but I try not to adjust my play according to what some people see as scummy because obviously someone else will come along and contradict that and call it towny. And because of that I don't think anyone should strive to be towny in other people's eyes and should rather just try to play in a way that benefits town, if you're town obviously.
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ummmm just because your not "the biggest scum threat in this game right now" (not sure about this) doesn't mean your not scum.
I'm the person who's one vote away from being lynched right now, thanks specifically to Andrew. He can just about get away with putting me to an unannounced L-1 by claiming this is his careless laid-back game-play and he didn't realise. However leaving me there now that he's admitted he's fully aware that it's L-1, is not good play for town at all unless he actually thinks I'm really a threat. OTOH, if he's scum waiting for a derphammer, it makes much more sense.
Also, I think gkreig's point about your retort not coming from a very towny-seeming place is also accurate.
I agree with Space here. Vote: Andrew
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Sorry for the quote fail.
Oh and sorry for the unannounced L-1, I didn't notice. I keep forgetting there are only 7 of us in this game right now.
... so you're celebrating the nice slow pace of the game as an excuse not to engage, and just to leave your vote at L-1? Like you genuinely believe I'm the biggest scum threat here right now?
And since there are only 7 of us in the game, it means people have to talk more, not less!
Sorry it wasn't clear earlier but I didn't mean I was enjoying the slow pace of the game. I meant I was enjoying how I was taking things a little slower and taking mafia a little less seriously. And again I'm not sure why you're insisting I'm not engaging when I clearly am, and I don't see a problem with you being at L-1 either, so I'll keep my vote there for now.
Still reading the latest posts.
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Reread starts here with D1:
Space jumps straight in with setup talk- that's kind of towny, as RVs is random and not usually that helpful
#59 - PPS claims scum
#62 - gkrieg has clearly thought a lot about the setup and how to protect rolecop. Then suggested a possible rolecop claim. Seemed a bit too early for that IMO. Jake also thinks they should claim D2
Wow straight into the setup talk.
That's unusual.
I'll try and contribute today, although my time management skills are poor.
I was wondering where my fellow Brit had gone, now that it's all daytime-y over here.
Poor time management is what leads to too much forum time, no?
Nah, poor time management tends to lead to me double and triple booking things, and having no time for mafia. :(
#105 - LaLight RVs for me, despite saying that he doesn't like RVs
#136- Robz ranked the setups for how good they are for town. And then LL and Robz argued about whether he was actually being useful or not
#182- Space encouraged voting PPS "just in case he's bluffing about his conviction that PPS is scum this game". Which I then did. And Robz did.
Then some hammering discussion with Andrew/Jake/LL, followed by PPs unvoting, jake voting, me fakehammering and then gkrieg actually hammering
Final vote count was:
D1 Final Vote Count
pingpongsam (5): SpaceAnemone, Joseph2302, Robz888, JaketheBaseballGod22, gkrieg13
Robz888 (2): LaLight, AndrewisFTTW
Joseph2302 (1): Dylan32
not voting (1): pingpongsam
With 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch.
So the mislynchers were Space, me, Robz, Jake & gkrieg
There's 2 scum in the game, I assume at least 1 of the scum is in that list
PPE: 5?
Wow. Way to "reread" and not actually provide any thoughts or reads whatsoever. Scummy as hell.
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My main thoughts on that are:
- Why did PPS spend the whole day claiming scum? It never works.
- When did Jake become much quieter? I'm not convinced this is a scum tell though.
- Why did gkrieg hammer exactly when he did?
- That wagon seemed far too easy, including PPS there were 7 people that kind of supported the wagon (LL did as well)
Alright alright, I should've looked at the very next post. But still, there's no substance to this.
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So the mislynchers were Space, me, Robz, Jake & gkrieg
There's 2 scum in the game, I assume at least 1 of the scum is in that list
PPE: 5?
So you are just saying that you don't think the team is Andrew/Dylan.
Heh.. that's exactly what I was thinking. LL being off-wagon and town is possibly another reason he made a good night target, actually -- if we actually have two scums on-wagon, they'll need to be careful about allowing PoE on there.
This is something I always think scum does when I'm town, but never actually do when I'm scum
I agree to an extent. PoE is definitely a factor but not N1 and probably not N2 either.
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ummmm just because your not "the biggest scum threat in this game right now" (not sure about this) doesn't mean your not scum.
I'm the person who's one vote away from being lynched right now, thanks specifically to Andrew. He can just about get away with putting me to an unannounced L-1 by claiming this is his careless laid-back game-play and he didn't realise. However leaving me there now that he's admitted he's fully aware that it's L-1, is not good play for town at all unless he actually thinks I'm really a threat. OTOH, if he's scum waiting for a derphammer, it makes much more sense.
Also, I think gkreig's point about your retort not coming from a very towny-seeming place is also accurate.
Oh please, don't be so dramatic. Just because you're at L-1 doesn't guarantee you're going to be lynched although maybe you're regretting the way you guys stumbled into pps's lynch yesterday now, huh? Me leaving my vote on you is neither scummy nor anti-town and it's pretty revealing how defensive you are and how worried you are that you might be lynched.
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So, D2:
#286- Space suggested rolecop claim, as people had suggested D2 was a good time for it. Possibly just scum trying to fish for info though.
Gkrieg & I both thought LL was an odd kill- although I posted more thought out thoughts about that now
#299 - scum do know the setup, but they don't know who the rolecop is. It'd be nice not to give scum an easy lynch
Some people then pseudo-claimed some results for last night. Robz didn't want to do it, which I think is possibly a tad scummy. I would have done it had I been paying proper attention at the time.
#320- Andrew notices that the D1 wagon was crap. Yes it was crap, but are you just trying to make yourself look good for not being on it?
#321- No I probably wouldn't NK LL after finding him scummy. Although I can't remember the last time I NKed anyone, so....
So the Space wagon is Robz, Jake, Andrew. Assuming Space is good, there's at least 1 scum there. And I'm kind of tentatively leaning towards Space being good right now.
I like my vote on Andrew for now.
PPE: 2-4
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vote: Joseph
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Scum slip saying that scum knows the setup but not who the rolecop is. Town doesn't know a rolecop exists
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Scum slip saying that scum knows the setup but not who the rolecop is. Town doesn't know a rolecop exists
Lol by this definition everyone in the game is scum. I don't know about everyone else but gkrieg seems very scummy to me this game. Therefore I feel very happy moving my vote there for now. Vote: Gkrieg13
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Scum slip saying that scum knows the setup but not who the rolecop is. Town doesn't know a rolecop exists
Lol by this definition everyone in the game is scum. I don't know about everyone else but gkrieg seems very scummy to me this game. Therefore I feel very happy moving my vote there for now. Vote: Gkrieg13
Why do I seem scummy? I get what you are saying about the scum slip, but I still think Joseph's was an actual scum slip
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Scum slip saying that scum knows the setup but not who the rolecop is. Town doesn't know a rolecop exists
We've literally spent the whole game assuming it exists.
If it doesn't exist, then 50+% of posts here are meaningless
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Scum slip saying that scum knows the setup but not who the rolecop is. Town doesn't know a rolecop exists
Lol by this definition everyone in the game is scum. I don't know about everyone else but gkrieg seems very scummy to me this game. Therefore I feel very happy moving my vote there for now. Vote: Gkrieg13
Why do I seem scummy? I get what you are saying about the scum slip, but I still think Joseph's was an actual scum slip
What happened to you can't agree and think something isn't valid.
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Scum slip saying that scum knows the setup but not who the rolecop is. Town doesn't know a rolecop exists
Lol by this definition everyone in the game is scum. I don't know about everyone else but gkrieg seems very scummy to me this game. Therefore I feel very happy moving my vote there for now. Vote: Gkrieg13
Why do I seem scummy? I get what you are saying about the scum slip, but I still think Joseph's was an actual scum slip
What happened to you can't agree and think something isn't valid.
The point was if someone is saying something about your meta/past games, you can't agree with them that "that was the case previously" but then say it isn't valid because "it's not true this game." That was the argument you made previously that gkrieg criticized. This isn't really that type of argument. In this post, gkrieg acknowledged that he understands the point you are making, but that says your point doesn't affect the conclusion he made.
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Scum slip saying that scum knows the setup but not who the rolecop is. Town doesn't know a rolecop exists
We've literally spent the whole game assuming it exists.
If it doesn't exist, then 50+% of posts here are meaningless
They aren't meaningless, regardless of the rc's presence or lack thereof. We can read the interactions and try to figure out the motivations behind the stances people took.
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#286- Space suggested rolecop claim, as people had suggested D2 was a good time for it. Possibly just scum trying to fish for info though.
That is not at all what I suggested! I asked whether the consensus was still that we should follow gkrieg's exercise in all claiming results, which is exactly what six of us then went on to do. I've never actually voiced enthusiasm for the rolecop to come out and claim, as far as I can remember.
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Joseph said the same thing about Space saying the cop should claim in #291, and Space replied to that same thing the same way in #296. Plus, Space's original post that Joseph is referring to isn't even that hard to understand.
vote: Joseph
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I think I understand what you mean. But it's a moot point anyway since everyone already posted results I think except for Robz, who isn't playing along.
A possible town doctor may find it really helpful to be considering this stuff at exactly this sort of point in the game. And it's now out there for everyone to think about when people claim N2 actions, too. So I think it's far from moot.
Argh... sorry the quoting is broken! Phone posting from bed and don't have the awakeness to fix it :-(
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Just so we have it for reference, I'm going to do a quick post count, because I reread Andrew a bit and was actually surprised by how much he talked, so I'm going to count everyone.
And away we go (people are in no particular order; posts prior to game start in parenthesis):
Andrew: 65 (1)
gkrieg: 45 (4)
Joseph: 37 (6)
Jake: 31 (1)
Robz: 20 (1)
Space: 47 (1)
Dylan: 25 (1)
My thoughts:
- Andrew has a right to get mad at comments calling him inactive I guess.
- There wasn't as much setup talk as I thought. I guess a lot was LL.
- I was quiet for a pretty large chunk of D1 apparently. Spring break is not the easiest time to be online a lot, as evidenced by my large uptick in posting since returning a few days ago.
- 10 of Joseph's posts have come in the last 9ish hours. In fairness, 7 of mine have been also.
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Just so we have it for reference, I'm going to do a quick post count, because I reread Andrew a bit and was actually surprised by how much he talked, so I'm going to count everyone.
And away we go (people are in no particular order; posts prior to game start in parenthesis):
Andrew: 65 (1)
gkrieg: 45 (4)
Joseph: 37 (6)
Jake: 31 (1)
Robz: 20 (1)
Space: 47 (1)
Dylan: 25 (1)
My thoughts:
- Andrew has a right to get mad at comments calling him inactive I guess.
- There wasn't as much setup talk as I thought. I guess a lot was LL.
- I was quiet for a pretty large chunk of D1 apparently. Spring break is not the easiest time to be online a lot, as evidenced by my large uptick in posting since returning a few days ago.
- 10 of Joseph's posts have come in the last 9ish hours. In fairness, 7 of mine have been also.
I start posting much more over the next two weeks because I get off for a two week spring break tomorrow. Scum slip saying that scum knows the setup but not who the rolecop is. Town doesn't know a rolecop exists
Lol by this definition everyone in the game is scum. I don't know about everyone else but gkrieg seems very scummy to me this game. Therefore I feel very happy moving my vote there for now. Vote: Gkrieg13
Why do I seem scummy? I get what you are saying about the scum slip, but I still think Joseph's was an actual scum slip
What happened to you can't agree and think something isn't valid.
The point was if someone is saying something about your meta/past games, you can't agree with them that "that was the case previously" but then say it isn't valid because "it's not true this game." That was the argument you made previously that gkrieg criticized. This isn't really that type of argument. In this post, gkrieg acknowledged that he understands the point you are making, but that says your point doesn't affect the conclusion he made.
(Sadly shakes his head) That's the exact same thing just with one having context and the other not. Also just a calling this out now scum is one of gkrieg/space/Dylan. Also can anyone just say why there voting Joseph because I can't see him being scum. All I see with him and Andrew is just frustrated town.
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- Andrew has a right to get mad at comments calling him inactive I guess.
Sure, he's posted more than anyone, but that doesn't mean we can't be miffed at his attitude :-P
- There wasn't as much setup talk as I thought. I guess a lot was LL.
There was a fair bit coming from gkrieg. And then I've revived some in D2 concerning implications of claims, but I definitely don't feel like it's been talked out to any great extent at all.
- 10 of Joseph's posts have come in the last 9ish hours. In fairness, 7 of mine have been also.
Post count is less meaningful than usual for Joseph in this game: most of his D1 was total fluff, and even now, he's making the same lack-of-attention errors that he was in D1.
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Oh please, don't be so dramatic. Just because you're at L-1 doesn't guarantee you're going to be lynched although maybe you're regretting the way you guys stumbled into pps's lynch yesterday now, huh? Me leaving my vote on you is neither scummy nor anti-town and it's pretty revealing how defensive you are and how worried you are that you might be lynched.
Nope, this is me behaving how I think town should behave when there's a nonsense unfounded wagon on them: pointing out errors in bad reasoning coming from scummy people!
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(Slightly Rushed) Space Count
Space (2): Robz, Andrew
Robz (1): Space
Andrew (1): Joseph
Joseph (2): gkrieg, Dylan
gkrieg (1): Jake
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I'm about to be VLA till after the deadline.
My vote on Robz isn't useful because he's still VLA himself. I'll vote: Joseph now. I hope to be on at least by phone from the place I'm going, but I'm really not sure how the data coverage will be...
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- Andrew has a right to get mad at comments calling him inactive I guess.
Sure, he's posted more than anyone, but that doesn't mean we can't be miffed at his attitude :-P
Isn't this true but not valid again??
- There wasn't as much setup talk as I thought. I guess a lot was LL.
There was a fair bit coming from gkrieg. And then I've revived some in D2 concerning implications of claims, but I definitely don't feel like it's been talked out to any great extent at all.
- 10 of Joseph's posts have come in the last 9ish hours. In fairness, 7 of mine have been also.
Post count is less meaningful than usual for Joseph in this game: most of his D1 was total fluff, and even now, he's making the same lack-of-attention errors that he was in D1.
Why are you voting Joseph??
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My thoughts:
- Andrew has a right to get mad at comments calling him inactive I guess.
- There wasn't as much setup talk as I thought. I guess a lot was LL.
- I was quiet for a pretty large chunk of D1 apparently. Spring break is not the easiest time to be online a lot, as evidenced by my large uptick in posting since returning a few days ago.
- 10 of Joseph's posts have come in the last 9ish hours. In fairness, 7 of mine have been also.
I'm mad?
(Sadly shakes his head) That's the exact same thing just with one having context and the other not. Also just a calling this out now scum is one of gkrieg/space/Dylan. Also can anyone just say why there voting Joseph because I can't see him being scum. All I see with him and Andrew is just frustrated town.
I'm frustrated?
No, I love you all!
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- Andrew has a right to get mad at comments calling him inactive I guess.
Sure, he's posted more than anyone, but that doesn't mean we can't be miffed at his attitude :-P
???
- There wasn't as much setup talk as I thought. I guess a lot was LL.
There was a fair bit coming from gkrieg. And then I've revived some in D2 concerning implications of claims, but I definitely don't feel like it's been talked out to any great extent at all.
What haven't we talked about? D1 we just went around in circles until we realized we were accomplishing nothing. By all means if you think we need to discuss something else about the setup that we haven't touched upon, go for it!
- 10 of Joseph's posts have come in the last 9ish hours. In fairness, 7 of mine have been also.
Post count is less meaningful than usual for Joseph in this game: most of his D1 was total fluff, and even now, he's making the same lack-of-attention errors that he was in D1.
But is that a tell for Joseph?
I'm also sorry for quote fails.
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Oh please, don't be so dramatic. Just because you're at L-1 doesn't guarantee you're going to be lynched although maybe you're regretting the way you guys stumbled into pps's lynch yesterday now, huh? Me leaving my vote on you is neither scummy nor anti-town and it's pretty revealing how defensive you are and how worried you are that you might be lynched.
Nope, this is me behaving how I think town should behave when there's a nonsense unfounded wagon on them: pointing out errors in bad reasoning coming from scummy people!
a.k.a. OMGUS.
Everybody plays differently, you can't just put out a blanket statement like "how I'm defending myself is super towny and this is how town does it so obviously I'm town". If you were to say "this is usually how I react to wagons regardless of alignment" I would be more inclined to believe you, especially if someone backed you up.
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I'm about to be VLA till after the deadline.
My vote on Robz isn't useful because he's still VLA himself. I'll vote: Joseph now. I hope to be on at least by phone from the place I'm going, but I'm really not sure how the data coverage will be...
Isn't this also unannounced L-1?
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I'm about to be VLA till after the deadline.
My vote on Robz isn't useful because he's still VLA himself. I'll vote: Joseph now. I hope to be on at least by phone from the place I'm going, but I'm really not sure how the data coverage will be...
Isn't this also unannounced L-1?
yeah uhh SA seems very scummy right now. I would be fine with lynching gkrieg or SA.
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I'm about to be VLA till after the deadline.
My vote on Robz isn't useful because he's still VLA himself. I'll vote: Joseph now. I hope to be on at least by phone from the place I'm going, but I'm really not sure how the data coverage will be...
Isn't this also unannounced L-1?
yeah uhh SA seems very scummy right now. I would be fine with lynching gkrieg or SA.
I don't know how I feel about gkrieg. He came out swinging with all the setup talk, hammered pps with no explanation and since then has been jumping around all over the place, placing votes on three people for little reason.
First he votes me:
vote: Andrew for saying everyone is scum based on the PPS wagon
Then FoS on Jake followed eventually by a vote:
I could actually see Jake as scum here.
vote: Jake
And then Joseph for a supposed scumslip:
vote: Joseph
Scum slip saying that scum knows the setup but not who the rolecop is. Town doesn't know a rolecop exists
Still don't know what to think about him, probably because this is my first game with him.
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I wouldn't say that votes on 3 different people in a day is jumping around.
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Also, that post is hedgy to the extreme.
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I'm about to be VLA till after the deadline.
My vote on Robz isn't useful because he's still VLA himself. I'll vote: Joseph now. I hope to be on at least by phone from the place I'm going, but I'm really not sure how the data coverage will be...
Isn't this also unannounced L-1?
I posted my vote count immediately beforehand, so it's not like anyone should be super-surprised at the voting distribution. Not announcing it was am oversight on my part, though.. I was rushing to make sure I wasn't leaving a wasted vote when leaving for my holiday. (Hi from Wales!)
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I wouldn't say that votes on 3 different people in a day is jumping around.
I would. It looks like you haven't formulated any reads and are being extra careful to suspect everyone a little bit.
Also, that post is hedgy to the extreme.
Yeah well, I find a lot of people scummy this game but not all of them can be scum.
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I'm about to be VLA till after the deadline.
My vote on Robz isn't useful because he's still VLA himself. I'll vote: Joseph now. I hope to be on at least by phone from the place I'm going, but I'm really not sure how the data coverage will be...
Isn't this also unannounced L-1?
I posted my vote count immediately beforehand, so it's not like anyone should be super-surprised at the voting distribution. Not announcing it was am oversight on my part, though.. I was rushing to make sure I wasn't leaving a wasted vote when leaving for my holiday. (Hi from Wales!)
Was just pointing out if anyone had missed it.
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I'm about to be VLA till after the deadline.
My vote on Robz isn't useful because he's still VLA himself. I'll vote: Joseph now. I hope to be on at least by phone from the place I'm going, but I'm really not sure how the data coverage will be...
Isn't this also unannounced L-1?
I posted my vote count immediately beforehand, so it's not like anyone should be super-surprised at the voting distribution. Not announcing it was am oversight on my part, though.. I was rushing to make sure I wasn't leaving a wasted vote when leaving for my holiday. (Hi from Wales!)
And yet YOU'RE LEAVING YOUR VOTE ON HIM! SCUM!
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I wouldn't say that votes on 3 different people in a day is jumping around.
I would. It looks like you haven't formulated any reads and are being extra careful to suspect everyone a little bit.
Also, that post is hedgy to the extreme.
Yeah well, I find a lot of people scummy this game but not all of them can be scum.
Well I townread Dylan and Space currently. I'm still on the fence about Robz though. Not much from him
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- Andrew has a right to get mad at comments calling him inactive I guess.
Sure, he's posted more than anyone, but that doesn't mean we can't be miffed at his attitude :-P
???
- There wasn't as much setup talk as I thought. I guess a lot was LL.
There was a fair bit coming from gkrieg. And then I've revived some in D2 concerning implications of claims, but I definitely don't feel like it's been talked out to any great extent at all.
What haven't we talked about? D1 we just went around in circles until we realized we were accomplishing nothing. By all means if you think we need to discuss something else about the setup that we haven't touched upon, go for it!
- 10 of Joseph's posts have come in the last 9ish hours. In fairness, 7 of mine have been also.
Post count is less meaningful than usual for Joseph in this game: most of his D1 was total fluff, and even now, he's making the same lack-of-attention errors that he was in D1.
But is that a tell for Joseph?
I'm also sorry for quote fails.
I guess I'm just not actively engaged with the game. Sometimes it happens.
Also, why am I on L-1?
Is it because people think I'm being useless and therefore anti-town, or do people actually think I've been scummy (for reasons other than having not contributed)?
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And I'm busy most of the evening today, sorry.
Man my time for this game has been so much less than I anticipated
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- Andrew has a right to get mad at comments calling him inactive I guess.
Sure, he's posted more than anyone, but that doesn't mean we can't be miffed at his attitude :-P
???
- There wasn't as much setup talk as I thought. I guess a lot was LL.
There was a fair bit coming from gkrieg. And then I've revived some in D2 concerning implications of claims, but I definitely don't feel like it's been talked out to any great extent at all.
What haven't we talked about? D1 we just went around in circles until we realized we were accomplishing nothing. By all means if you think we need to discuss something else about the setup that we haven't touched upon, go for it!
- 10 of Joseph's posts have come in the last 9ish hours. In fairness, 7 of mine have been also.
Post count is less meaningful than usual for Joseph in this game: most of his D1 was total fluff, and even now, he's making the same lack-of-attention errors that he was in D1.
But is that a tell for Joseph?
I'm also sorry for quote fails.
I guess I'm just not actively engaged with the game. Sometimes it happens.
Also, why am I on L-1?
Is it because people think I'm being useless and therefore anti-town, or do people actually think I've been scummy (for reasons other than having not contributed)?
That's what I've been asking and no one can give me a anwser
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For me, it is because of the scum slip.
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For me, it is because of the scum slip.
Honestly I hadn't even read the setup, I assumed there was a rolecop since every discussion seemed to be about a rolecop
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unvote
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If you were to say "this is usually how I react to wagons regardless of alignment" I would be more inclined to believe you, especially if someone backed you up.
Well, gkrieg could probably tell you about how I make for an easy mislynch target :- P
PPE several because my signal is already getting patchy and we're still not there yet...
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If you were to say "this is usually how I react to wagons regardless of alignment" I would be more inclined to believe you, especially if someone backed you up.
Well, gkrieg could probably tell you about how I make for an easy mislynch target :- P
PPE several because my signal is already getting patchy and we're still not there yet...
Just because you get mislynched easily(Not even sure if this is true)does not mean your not scum.
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For me, it is because of the scum slip.
Honestly I hadn't even read the setup, I assumed there was a rolecop since every discussion seemed to be about a rolecop
It would be easier for scum to go without reading the setup here I think, because depending on how descriptive the flavor names that schadd provided are, they might not have needed to even look at the setup post to know what exactly was in the setup, which could lead a busy scum to assume that everyone knew a rolecop was in the setup.
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Hello, very far behind do some personal matters this week, I'm traveling all next wee too but I actually should have some time to catch up here this weekend. Apologies for my long absences, this is just a hell of a two weeks for me.
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Vote Count 2.3
SpaceAnemone (2): Robz888, AndrewisFTTW
AndrewisFTTW (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (2): Dylan32, SpaceAnemone
gkrieg13 (1): JaketheBaseballGod22
not voting (1): gkrieg13
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 2 ends Saturday, April 1st at 6pm forum time. this in in about 48hr
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I don't think that is in 24 hours, but still very close.
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i'm on spring break
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i'm on spring break
me toooo!!!
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Did not realize the deadline was that close... 2 days in and we aren't even that close to the 20 page mark. gkrieg, as the only person not currently voting, what are you thinking and where would you consider putting your vote.
So hopefully my vote speaks for itself, but I actually feel pretty good about leaving it on Joseph. The combination of the possible scum slip that gkrieg called, the fact scum seems more likely to make setup assumptions without actually reading the setup at all despite all the early game setup discussion, and the fact that his post to get on PPS's wagon was:
Also, a few more people should vote PPS just in case he's bluffing about his conviction that PPS is scum this game.
Sure. Vote: PPS
Wagon
makes him my preferred lynch for today.
For a small (and therefore I think typically shorter game), we seem like we have made very substantially less progress than we should have by this point. Of course I guess the way D1 went down has turned this into essentially an extended version of D1 rather than a D2 with good information to use. The only good thing is that by process of elimination alone, I know there is at least 1 scum on wagon, and I feel like gkrieg and Space have been fairly towny, so between VLA Robz, Jake, and Joseph, the odds of hitting scum there feel pretty good to me. So if need be, I would put a vote anywhere on any of those three today. I would rather not lynch Robz--strictly because he has had a stated VLA--so I would be down for either Joseph or Jake. I haven't necessarily seen anything about Jake that seemed scummy except for being quieter like his recent scum games. However, if this is just his new play-style, I don't want to lynch him solely because he is playing (arguably) better. I do still disagree with several of his arguments, but they haven't looked like scum arguments. So whether you like my case (if you can call it that) or not, the addition of the POE is pretty solid.
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I disagree with you about Joseph. When you know it is this kind of setup you read it as scum and Joseph is more like this as town than scum.
I would vote Robz or Jake I think.
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I disagree with you about Joseph. When you know it is this kind of setup you read it as scum and Joseph is more like this as town than scum.
I would vote Robz or Jake I think.
So which of the VLA-Robz or the not-all-that-scummy-Jake would you prefer? And do you have a better case on Jake than just he was like this is recent scum games?
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I disagree with you about Joseph. When you know it is this kind of setup you read it as scum and Joseph is more like this as town than scum.
I would vote Robz or Jake I think.
So which of the VLA-Robz or the not-all-that-scummy-Jake would you prefer? And do you have a better case on Jake than just he was like this is recent scum games?
Well he has never been like this as town.
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Where did Andrew go in all this Robz-or-Jake reasoning?
@Dylan and gkrieg, are you both towreading Andrew?
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Where did Andrew go in all this Robz-or-Jake reasoning?
@Dylan and gkrieg, are you both towreading Andrew?
Sure, single me out. What about you? Where have you been for this whole Robz/Jake thing? Huh?
I don't want to lynch either of them today. Robz because he's been busy but also because I think he was pretty towny yesterday. I also have a townread on Jake but again, don't know much about him. Dylan you said he's been acting like he has in recent scum games? Which?
I'd go with Space, Joseph, or maybe gkrieg for what I posted earlier about him.
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What haven't we talked about? D1 we just went around in circles until we realized we were accomplishing nothing. By all means if you think we need to discuss something else about the setup that we haven't touched upon, go for it!
Sorry.. just found this post half-written in another phone tab.
Things I think we should have thought through a bit more include the possible implications of putting so many fake and possibly-real night results out the there, and what this means for being able to catch scum out by forcing them to manufacture fake claims so early (this is one reason I expect scum!Robz would be dead against it), and what happened to gkrieg's follow-the-cop idea that didn't get fully talked about in D1. There's tons of theory stuff, really. I guess I'm too used to having Calamitas or silver or those sorts of people around, since they're usually also quite interested in that sort of speculation.
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Where did Andrew go in all this Robz-or-Jake reasoning?
@Dylan and gkrieg, are you both towreading Andrew?
Sure, single me out. What about you? Where have you been for this whole Robz/Jake thing? Huh?
I don't want to lynch either of them today. Robz because he's been busy but also because I think he was pretty towny yesterday. I also have a townread on Jake but again, don't know much about him. Dylan you said he's been acting like he has in recent scum games? Which?
I'd go with Space, Joseph, or maybe gkrieg for what I posted earlier about him.
What made Robz townie D1?
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Where did Andrew go in all this Robz-or-Jake reasoning?
@Dylan and gkrieg, are you both towreading Andrew?
He is pretty 50/50 for me. Definitely not townreading, but also not really scum reading. We have like complete opposite reads though.
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Where did Andrew go in all this Robz-or-Jake reasoning?
@Dylan and gkrieg, are you both towreading Andrew?
Sure, single me out. What about you? Where have you been for this whole Robz/Jake thing? Huh?
I didn't single you out at all.. I think gkrieg did by forgetting about you. Dylan, gkrieg and I are all townreading each other mostly. Then gkrieg went cold on the idea of a Joseph lynch, because he seems convinced that Joseph's poor pay is more of a town tell for him. However, gkrieg seems to have landed on the Robz-or-Jake thing by PoE while not explicitly having ruled you out... I just wanted to know where you went in gkrieg's thought process.
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What haven't we talked about? D1 we just went around in circles until we realized we were accomplishing nothing. By all means if you think we need to discuss something else about the setup that we haven't touched upon, go for it!
Sorry.. just found this post half-written in another phone tab.
Things I think we should have thought through a bit more include the possible implications of putting so many fake and possibly-real night results out the there, and what this means for being able to catch scum out by forcing them to manufacture fake claims so early (this is one reason I expect scum!Robz would be dead against it), and what happened to gkrieg's follow-the-cop idea that didn't get fully talked about in D1. There's tons of theory stuff, really. I guess I'm too used to having Calamitas or silver or those sorts of people around, since they're usually also quite interested in that sort of speculation.
I think if a town PR was confident he caught scum he would say so. I don't think a scum fakeclaim would get them very far. But anyway, if you're so concerned with all of this how come you didn't bring it up D1 instead of now?
Where did Andrew go in all this Robz-or-Jake reasoning?
@Dylan and gkrieg, are you both towreading Andrew?
Sure, single me out. What about you? Where have you been for this whole Robz/Jake thing? Huh?
I don't want to lynch either of them today. Robz because he's been busy but also because I think he was pretty towny yesterday. I also have a townread on Jake but again, don't know much about him. Dylan you said he's been acting like he has in recent scum games? Which?
I'd go with Space, Joseph, or maybe gkrieg for what I posted earlier about him.
What made Robz townie D1?
Not much, but I think he'd be a little more cautious about his vote if he was scum instead of jumping on the wagon willy nilly. What made Robz scummy D1?
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Reads list
Super town: Jake
Town: Andrew
Frustrated Town: Joseph
Null due to lack of content: Robz
Null to scum: Dylan
75% sure of scum: SA
95% sure of scum: Gkrieg
Would be willing to lynch any of the last 4
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Also Joseph's supposed "scum slip" is not one at all. I could find at least 10 posts from almost every player in the game that could be qualified as a scum slip by this one being one. Almost all of D1 the idea of a Rolecop claiming results no one used if in front of saying thee was a rolecop. That's all Jospeh did and yet he is scum because of it??? Besides that there's no reason to have a scum read on him.
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Reads list
Super town: Jake
Town: Andrew
Frustrated Town: Joseph
Null due to lack of content: Robz
Null to scum: Dylan
75% sure of scum: SA
95% sure of scum: Gkrieg
Would be willing to lynch any of the last 4
You think Gkrieg is scum?
If he's scum, why didn't he just hammer me?
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Reads list
Super town: Jake
Town: Andrew
Frustrated Town: Joseph
Null due to lack of content: Robz
Null to scum: Dylan
75% sure of scum: SA
95% sure of scum: Gkrieg
Would be willing to lynch any of the last 4
You think Gkrieg is scum?
If he's scum, why didn't he just hammer me?
You are forgetting that I scum read Jake and now the OMGUS is welling up
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Reads list
Super town: Jake
Town: Andrew
Frustrated Town: Joseph
Null due to lack of content: Robz
Null to scum: Dylan
75% sure of scum: SA
95% sure of scum: Gkrieg
Would be willing to lynch any of the last 4
You think Gkrieg is scum?
If he's scum, why didn't he just hammer me?
You are forgetting that I scum read Jake and now the OMGUS is welling up
You are forgetting I've had a vote on you for like 5 days now and had a scum read on you even longer. Stop trying to blame this on OMGUS.
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Reads list
Super town: Jake
Town: Andrew
Frustrated Town: Joseph
Null due to lack of content: Robz
Null to scum: Dylan
75% sure of scum: SA
95% sure of scum: Gkrieg
Would be willing to lynch any of the last 4
You think Gkrieg is scum?
If he's scum, why didn't he just hammer me?
Because that would go against what he has been saying and basically garuntee he gets lynched tommorw.
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@Space I didn't forget about Andrew. I hate that this is going to sound like I'm just mimicing gkrieg, but From my perspective, Andrew has been pretty null, so the odds of hitting scum by lynching him are roughly the same as the random chance of him drawing scum. If my town reads on you and gkrieg are correct, the odds of hitting scum in my list of 3 that I said are much higher than the random chance. So leaving Andrew out is more a numbers thing than a I-don't-think-he's-scum thing.
I'm curious if I were to vote for Jake just how much his confidence that I'm scum would increase. In fact, let's try it. Vote: Jake
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Reads list
Super town: Jake
Town: Andrew
Frustrated Town: Joseph
Null due to lack of content: Robz
Null to scum: Dylan
75% sure of scum: SA
95% sure of scum: Gkrieg
Would be willing to lynch any of the last 4
You think Gkrieg is scum?
If he's scum, why didn't he just hammer me?
Because that would go against what he has been saying and basically garuntee he gets lynched tommorw.
He said I was town instead of hammering me. Hammering would have been so much easier, as it didn't 100% guarantee his lynch tomorrow
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Seeing as PPS's hammer didn't ensure my lynch today means that Joseph's lynch also wouldn't have.
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@Space I didn't forget about Andrew. I hate that this is going to sound like I'm just mimicing gkrieg, but From my perspective, Andrew has been pretty null, so the odds of hitting scum by lynching him are roughly the same as the random chance of him drawing scum. If my town reads on you and gkrieg are correct, the odds of hitting scum in my list of 3 that I said are much higher than the random chance. So leaving Andrew out is more a numbers thing than a I-don't-think-he's-scum thing.
I'm curious if I were to vote for Jake just how much his confidence that I'm scum would increase. In fact, let's try it. Vote: Jake
Not at all
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Reads list
Super town: Jake
Town: Andrew
Frustrated Town: Joseph
Null due to lack of content: Robz
Null to scum: Dylan
75% sure of scum: SA
95% sure of scum: Gkrieg
Would be willing to lynch any of the last 4
You think Gkrieg is scum?
If he's scum, why didn't he just hammer me?
Because that would go against what he has been saying and basically garuntee he gets lynched tommorw.
He said I was town instead of hammering me. Hammering would have been so much easier, as it didn't 100% guarantee his lynch tomorrow
Yes that's what I said. It's like if I were to hammer you right now (I won't) despite saying your town. It would basically gaurentee my lynch tommorw. The same is true for gkrieg because he is saying that your town too.
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@Space I didn't forget about Andrew. I hate that this is going to sound like I'm just mimicing gkrieg, but From my perspective, Andrew has been pretty null, so the odds of hitting scum by lynching him are roughly the same as the random chance of him drawing scum. If my town reads on you and gkrieg are correct, the odds of hitting scum in my list of 3 that I said are much higher than the random chance. So leaving Andrew out is more a numbers thing than a I-don't-think-he's-scum thing.
I'm curious if I were to vote for Jake just how much his confidence that I'm scum would increase. In fact, let's try it. Vote: Jake
Not at all
Why would it increase my null to scum read on you
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Reads list
Super town: Jake
Town: Andrew
Frustrated Town: Joseph
Null due to lack of content: Robz
Null to scum: Dylan
75% sure of scum: SA
95% sure of scum: Gkrieg
Would be willing to lynch any of the last 4
You think Gkrieg is scum?
If he's scum, why didn't he just hammer me?
Because that would go against what he has been saying and basically garuntee he gets lynched tommorw.
He said I was town instead of hammering me. Hammering would have been so much easier, as it didn't 100% guarantee his lynch tomorrow
Yes that's what I said. It's like if I were to hammer you right now (I won't) despite saying your town. It would basically gaurentee my lynch tommorw. The same is true for gkrieg because he is saying that your town too.
No, Joseph means gkrieg had the chance to hammer before he said he townread him, which means gkrieg would not have been inconsistent. Rather than going ahead and hammering, gkrieg chose to tell everyone that he was townreading Joseph. If gkrieg had townread Joseph BEFORE having the chance to hammer, you would be right.
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@Space I didn't forget about Andrew. I hate that this is going to sound like I'm just mimicing gkrieg, but From my perspective, Andrew has been pretty null, so the odds of hitting scum by lynching him are roughly the same as the random chance of him drawing scum. If my town reads on you and gkrieg are correct, the odds of hitting scum in my list of 3 that I said are much higher than the random chance. So leaving Andrew out is more a numbers thing than a I-don't-think-he's-scum thing.
I'm curious if I were to vote for Jake just how much his confidence that I'm scum would increase. In fact, let's try it. Vote: Jake
Not at all
Why would it increase my null to scum read on you
Honestly, I was sort of testing to compare you to your earliest games I remember playing with you, where as soon as someone voted for you, you became convinced they were absolutely scum. You didn't do that here, which is a good thing for your quality of play. That vote really shouldn't have affected your read all that much, so the fact you didn't change "null to scum" to "lynch him now he is for sure scum" says something about your recent improvement.
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And the main reason I did that was because of you and gkrieg's back and forth about OMGUS.
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And the main reason I did that was because of you and gkrieg's back and forth about OMGUS.
I've noticed that gkrieg likes to say all my votes are OMGUS no matter what so I honestly no longer care if he says they are anymore.
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And the main reason I did that was because of you and gkrieg's back and forth about OMGUS.
I've noticed that gkrieg likes to say all my votes are OMGUS no matter what so I honestly no longer care if he says they are anymore.
The only times I have said that, you were scum.
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Jake, why do you think SA has been scummy? I just reread trying to find your reasons, and one mention of it was that you disagreed with one of their posts about Robz and the other you just quoted a post and said this is scummy but didn't explain why you thought so.
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Jake, why do you think SA has been scummy? I just reread trying to find your reasons, and one mention of it was that you disagreed with one of their posts about Robz and the other you just quoted a post and said this is scummy but didn't explain why you thought so.
The post about robz was SA saying that he is scum because he disagreed with the everyone claiming results thing and whereas I thought that showed robz as more towny. Another thing was when the space wagon was going space's main defense was that he was towny because he was "not the biggest scum threat" and then when i replied with this
So I just reread Joseph and Robz, and there isn't a whole lot from either. Robz came off slightly scummier, but he is VLA, so unless more people think he would actually be a good lynch right now, unvote. I would vote for Joseph, but I am comfortable waiting for his promised post tonight to give him a chance, since it was mostly just a lack of content. Andrew's last post is slightly scummy. I don't know why town would be comfortable with a slow pace most of the time. Gkrieg's case on Jake makes sense too. Jake, post more.
It is also strange that Jake hasn't posted since I explained my vote on him, when he has been online.
Well I just jumped online although my computer is always on which might explain why but just because I'm trying to play a more slower game so that I'm not lynched D-1. Oh and sorry for the unannounced L-1, I didn't notice. I keep forgetting there are only 7 of us in this game right now.
... so you're celebrating the nice slow pace of the game as an excuse not to engage, and just to leave your vote at L-1? Like you genuinely believe I'm the biggest scum threat here right now?
And since there are only 7 of us in the game, it means people have to talk more, not less!
ummmm just because your not "the biggest scum threat in this game right now" (not sure about this) doesn't mean your not scum. Also gkrieg your case is true but just because I've been scum the last two games since i changed my play style doesn't mean I'm scum this game so really the case is invalid.
he then says that any town players who are voting for him are playing bad
ummmm just because your not "the biggest scum threat in this game right now" (not sure about this) doesn't mean your not scum.
I'm the person who's one vote away from being lynched right now, thanks specifically to Andrew. He can just about get away with putting me to an unannounced L-1 by claiming this is his careless laid-back game-play and he didn't realise. However leaving me there now that he's admitted he's fully aware that it's L-1, is not good play for town at all unless he actually thinks I'm really a threat. OTOH, if he's scum waiting for a derphammer, it makes much more sense.
Also, I think gkreig's point about your retort not coming from a very towny-seeming place is also accurate.
Also he and gkrieg (my main scum read) have agreed on almost every issue or topic of conversation in the game. Seems like the main possible gkrieg scum partner to me.
Also when you go back to D1 SA at the start was one of the main pushers toward the PPS wagon but toward the end he tryed to distance himself from the wagon
You guys really want to hammer right this second? This game has been going for like 2 days.
we should just get D1 out of the way asap and if PPS wants to volunteer to end it then he can go ahead and do it.
How much information do you think PPS's flip will give us now, compared to letting D1 run its course more completely and generating a bunch more interactions between players who may or may not then get flipped later?
How likely do you think it is that he'll flip scum if someone hammers now?
Right after it seems like he's distanced himself enough his scum buddy gkrieg hammer's PPS while SA is still on wagon
That is why I think he is scum
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Jake, why do you think SA has been scummy? I just reread trying to find your reasons, and one mention of it was that you disagreed with one of their posts about Robz and the other you just quoted a post and said this is scummy but didn't explain why you thought so.
The post about robz was SA saying that he is scum because he disagreed with the everyone claiming results thing and whereas I thought that showed robz as more towny. Another thing was when the space wagon was going space's main defense was that he was towny because he was "not the biggest scum threat" and then when i replied with this
So I just reread Joseph and Robz, and there isn't a whole lot from either. Robz came off slightly scummier, but he is VLA, so unless more people think he would actually be a good lynch right now, unvote. I would vote for Joseph, but I am comfortable waiting for his promised post tonight to give him a chance, since it was mostly just a lack of content. Andrew's last post is slightly scummy. I don't know why town would be comfortable with a slow pace most of the time. Gkrieg's case on Jake makes sense too. Jake, post more.
It is also strange that Jake hasn't posted since I explained my vote on him, when he has been online.
Well I just jumped online although my computer is always on which might explain why but just because I'm trying to play a more slower game so that I'm not lynched D-1. Oh and sorry for the unannounced L-1, I didn't notice. I keep forgetting there are only 7 of us in this game right now.
... so you're celebrating the nice slow pace of the game as an excuse not to engage, and just to leave your vote at L-1? Like you genuinely believe I'm the biggest scum threat here right now?
And since there are only 7 of us in the game, it means people have to talk more, not less!
ummmm just because your not "the biggest scum threat in this game right now" (not sure about this) doesn't mean your not scum. Also gkrieg your case is true but just because I've been scum the last two games since i changed my play style doesn't mean I'm scum this game so really the case is invalid.
he then says that any town players who are voting for him are playing bad
ummmm just because your not "the biggest scum threat in this game right now" (not sure about this) doesn't mean your not scum.
I'm the person who's one vote away from being lynched right now, thanks specifically to Andrew. He can just about get away with putting me to an unannounced L-1 by claiming this is his careless laid-back game-play and he didn't realise. However leaving me there now that he's admitted he's fully aware that it's L-1, is not good play for town at all unless he actually thinks I'm really a threat. OTOH, if he's scum waiting for a derphammer, it makes much more sense.
Also, I think gkreig's point about your retort not coming from a very towny-seeming place is also accurate.
Also he and gkrieg (my main scum read) have agreed on almost every issue or topic of conversation in the game. Seems like the main possible gkrieg scum partner to me.
Also when you go back to D1 SA at the start was one of the main pushers toward the PPS wagon but toward the end he tryed to distance himself from the wagon
You guys really want to hammer right this second? This game has been going for like 2 days.
we should just get D1 out of the way asap and if PPS wants to volunteer to end it then he can go ahead and do it.
How much information do you think PPS's flip will give us now, compared to letting D1 run its course more completely and generating a bunch more interactions between players who may or may not then get flipped later?
How likely do you think it is that he'll flip scum if someone hammers now?
Right after it seems like he's distanced himself enough his scum buddy gkrieg hammer's PPS while SA is still on wagon
That is why I think he is scum
Disagreeing about a read isn't really enough to justify a scum read.
I think gkrieg would actually be less likely to agree with a partner on most things, so I would be more likely to assume at most one of gkrieg and Space are scum, in the case that I'm wrong about both being town.
If town doesn't think Space is the most likely person to be scum, I agree that carelessly being put and left at L-1 really early in D2 after the crappy D1 that we had is kind of bad play for town, so whether Space is scum or not, they had a point there. If you do think Space is the most likely person to be scum, then there wouldn't really be anything wrong with your play there.
Space has already discussed their positioning and stuff on the wagon, so go back and read it and see what you think.
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Jake, why do you think SA has been scummy? I just reread trying to find your reasons, and one mention of it was that you disagreed with one of their posts about Robz and the other you just quoted a post and said this is scummy but didn't explain why you thought so.
The post about robz was SA saying that he is scum because he disagreed with the everyone claiming results thing and whereas I thought that showed robz as more towny. Another thing was when the space wagon was going space's main defense was that he was towny because he was "not the biggest scum threat" and then when i replied with this
So I just reread Joseph and Robz, and there isn't a whole lot from either. Robz came off slightly scummier, but he is VLA, so unless more people think he would actually be a good lynch right now, unvote. I would vote for Joseph, but I am comfortable waiting for his promised post tonight to give him a chance, since it was mostly just a lack of content. Andrew's last post is slightly scummy. I don't know why town would be comfortable with a slow pace most of the time. Gkrieg's case on Jake makes sense too. Jake, post more.
It is also strange that Jake hasn't posted since I explained my vote on him, when he has been online.
Well I just jumped online although my computer is always on which might explain why but just because I'm trying to play a more slower game so that I'm not lynched D-1. Oh and sorry for the unannounced L-1, I didn't notice. I keep forgetting there are only 7 of us in this game right now.
... so you're celebrating the nice slow pace of the game as an excuse not to engage, and just to leave your vote at L-1? Like you genuinely believe I'm the biggest scum threat here right now?
And since there are only 7 of us in the game, it means people have to talk more, not less!
ummmm just because your not "the biggest scum threat in this game right now" (not sure about this) doesn't mean your not scum. Also gkrieg your case is true but just because I've been scum the last two games since i changed my play style doesn't mean I'm scum this game so really the case is invalid.
he then says that any town players who are voting for him are playing bad
ummmm just because your not "the biggest scum threat in this game right now" (not sure about this) doesn't mean your not scum.
I'm the person who's one vote away from being lynched right now, thanks specifically to Andrew. He can just about get away with putting me to an unannounced L-1 by claiming this is his careless laid-back game-play and he didn't realise. However leaving me there now that he's admitted he's fully aware that it's L-1, is not good play for town at all unless he actually thinks I'm really a threat. OTOH, if he's scum waiting for a derphammer, it makes much more sense.
Also, I think gkreig's point about your retort not coming from a very towny-seeming place is also accurate.
Also he and gkrieg (my main scum read) have agreed on almost every issue or topic of conversation in the game. Seems like the main possible gkrieg scum partner to me.
Also when you go back to D1 SA at the start was one of the main pushers toward the PPS wagon but toward the end he tryed to distance himself from the wagon
You guys really want to hammer right this second? This game has been going for like 2 days.
we should just get D1 out of the way asap and if PPS wants to volunteer to end it then he can go ahead and do it.
How much information do you think PPS's flip will give us now, compared to letting D1 run its course more completely and generating a bunch more interactions between players who may or may not then get flipped later?
How likely do you think it is that he'll flip scum if someone hammers now?
Right after it seems like he's distanced himself enough his scum buddy gkrieg hammer's PPS while SA is still on wagon
That is why I think he is scum
Disagreeing about a read isn't really enough to justify a scum read.
I think gkrieg would actually be less likely to agree with a partner on most things, so I would be more likely to assume at most one of gkrieg and Space are scum, in the case that I'm wrong about both being town.
If town doesn't think Space is the most likely person to be scum, I agree that carelessly being put and left at L-1 really early in D2 after the crappy D1 that we had is kind of bad play for town, so whether Space is scum or not, they had a point there. If you do think Space is the most likely person to be scum, then there wouldn't really be anything wrong with your play there.
Space has already discussed their positioning and stuff on the wagon, so go back and read it and see what you think.
They disagreed early D1 and then did agree later on
I still think he's scum after rereading that.
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I actually think I was the one to diffuse both the SA and the Joseph wagons IIRC.
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I actually think I was the one to diffuse both the SA and the Joseph wagons IIRC.
I don't remember about SA, but you definitely were the one that stopped the Joseph wagon, which I still am not sure was a good thing.
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I actually think I was the one to diffuse both the SA and the Joseph wagons IIRC.
I don't remember about SA, but you definitely were the one that stopped the Joseph wagon, which I still am not sure was a good thing.
I'm still pretty certain that he isn't scum.
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Request: Vote Count
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I actually think I was the one to diffuse both the SA and the Joseph wagons IIRC.
I don't remember about SA, but you definitely were the one that stopped the Joseph wagon, which I still am not sure was a good thing.
So you want to mislynch me? Seems scummy.
No actual reasons given
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Some thoughts:
1. pingpongsam - dead town
2. Joseph2302 - definitely town
3. JaketheBaseballGod22 - not sure
4. Robz888 - posting is lacking
5. Dylan32 - leaning towards scum as intent to mislynching me it seems
6. gkrieg13 - I think town. I'm such an easy mislynch, and he's not taking that option.
7. LaLight - dead town
8. SpaceAnemone - not sure, now leaning marginally town
9. AndrewisFTTW - not sure
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Some thoughts:
1. pingpongsam - dead town
2. Joseph2302 - definitely town
3. JaketheBaseballGod22 - not sure
4. Robz888 - posting is lacking
5. Dylan32 - leaning towards scum as intent to mislynching me it seems
6. gkrieg13 - I think town. I'm such an easy mislynch, and he's not taking that option.
7. LaLight - dead town
8. SpaceAnemone - not sure, now leaning marginally town
9. AndrewisFTTW - not sure
Uh, those aren't very strong reads, and they are all based off if people wanted to vote for you or not...
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Some thoughts:
1. pingpongsam - dead town
2. Joseph2302 - definitely town
3. JaketheBaseballGod22 - not sure
4. Robz888 - posting is lacking
5. Dylan32 - leaning towards scum as intent to mislynching me it seems
6. gkrieg13 - I think town. I'm such an easy mislynch, and he's not taking that option.
7. LaLight - dead town
8. SpaceAnemone - not sure, now leaning marginally town
9. AndrewisFTTW - not sure
Uh, those aren't very strong reads, and they are all based off if people wanted to vote for you or not...
Pretty sure Space spent about half of D2 wanting to lynch me?
And I'm literally a bit clueless right now.
Not much has actually happened in this game, so what the hell am I meant to be basing stuff off?
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@Jake: I am not a he!!!
Also @Jake: my early case on Robz had a lot more to it than just not being happy about him refusing to involve himself in the claiming exercise. For instance, he kept accusing me of being against/hesitant on the PPS wagon (!), and ignored at least two requests by me to back up his position with examples -- and that was before he disappeared entirely from the game.
@Andrew: I did say several things about set-up earlier in the game, and nobody joined in a conversation. I can't throw setup ideas back and forth all by myself (well, not with much success or any rapid successions of new insights), though.
@gkrieg & @Dylan: if you two both feel like Jake and Robz are the lynch pool for today, I'm willing to vote either one, though I'd readout like to see Robz back in the game first!!
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I actually think I was the one to diffuse both the SA and the Joseph wagons IIRC.
I don't remember about SA, but you definitely were the one that stopped the Joseph wagon, which I still am not sure was a good thing.
So you want to mislynch me? Seems scummy.
No actual reasons given
On the contrary, this^ is scummy. I agree with Jake on SA as well but disagree about gkrieg. Just because gkrieg supposedly sheeps/agrees with SA isn't an indication he's scum. He's pretty null for me actually and I'd rather lynch one of SA or Joseph.
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@Jake: I am not a he!!!
Also @Jake: my early case on Robz had a lot more to it than just not being happy about him refusing to involve himself in the claiming exercise. For instance, he kept accusing me of being against/hesitant on the PPS wagon (!), and ignored at least two requests by me to back up his position with examples -- and that was before he disappeared entirely from the game.
@Andrew: I did say several things about set-up earlier in the game, and nobody joined in a conversation. I can't throw setup ideas back and forth all by myself (well, not with much success or any rapid successions of new insights), though.
@gkrieg & @Dylan: if you two both feel like Jake and Robz are the lynch pool for today, I'm willing to vote either one, though I'd readout like to see Robz back in the game first!!
sorry but your still scum Vote: SA only because it looks like gkrieg is not happening.
SA role?
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I actually think I was the one to diffuse both the SA and the Joseph wagons IIRC.
I don't remember about SA, but you definitely were the one that stopped the Joseph wagon, which I still am not sure was a good thing.
So you want to mislynch me? Seems scummy.
No actual reasons given
First, you trying to act like I haven't given reasons for wanting to lynch you is scummy.
Second, if gkrieg had convinced me that you were actually town, I would not still support lynching you. However, he did not. He just made enough people seem to think you weren't the best lynch that I decided to consider other people since lynching you seemed unlikely to happen right now. Despite this, I still see you as scummy.
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@Jake: I am not a he!!!
Also @Jake: my early case on Robz had a lot more to it than just not being happy about him refusing to involve himself in the claiming exercise. For instance, he kept accusing me of being against/hesitant on the PPS wagon (!), and ignored at least two requests by me to back up his position with examples -- and that was before he disappeared entirely from the game.
@Andrew: I did say several things about set-up earlier in the game, and nobody joined in a conversation. I can't throw setup ideas back and forth all by myself (well, not with much success or any rapid successions of new insights), though.
@gkrieg & @Dylan: if you two both feel like Jake and Robz are the lynch pool for today, I'm willing to vote either one, though I'd readout like to see Robz back in the game first!!
sorry but your still scum Vote: SA only because it looks like gkrieg is not happening.
SA role?
Unannounced L-1 and demand for claim right here ^
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@Jake: I am not a he!!!
Also @Jake: my early case on Robz had a lot more to it than just not being happy about him refusing to involve himself in the claiming exercise. For instance, he kept accusing me of being against/hesitant on the PPS wagon (!), and ignored at least two requests by me to back up his position with examples -- and that was before he disappeared entirely from the game.
@Andrew: I did say several things about set-up earlier in the game, and nobody joined in a conversation. I can't throw setup ideas back and forth all by myself (well, not with much success or any rapid successions of new insights), though.
@gkrieg & @Dylan: if you two both feel like Jake and Robz are the lynch pool for today, I'm willing to vote either one, though I'd readout like to see Robz back in the game first!!
sorry but your still scum Vote: SA only because it looks like gkrieg is not happening.
SA role?
Unannounced L-1 and demand for claim right here ^
Isn't that what you ask for at L-1 before you lynch someone and sorry but i thought it was L-2 but i guess not (which i'm fine with)
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@Jake: I am not a he!!!
Also @Jake: my early case on Robz had a lot more to it than just not being happy about him refusing to involve himself in the claiming exercise. For instance, he kept accusing me of being against/hesitant on the PPS wagon (!), and ignored at least two requests by me to back up his position with examples -- and that was before he disappeared entirely from the game.
@Andrew: I did say several things about set-up earlier in the game, and nobody joined in a conversation. I can't throw setup ideas back and forth all by myself (well, not with much success or any rapid successions of new insights), though.
@gkrieg & @Dylan: if you two both feel like Jake and Robz are the lynch pool for today, I'm willing to vote either one, though I'd readout like to see Robz back in the game first!!
sorry but your still scum Vote: SA only because it looks like gkrieg is not happening.
SA role?
Unannounced L-1 and demand for claim right here ^
Isn't that what you ask for at L-1 before you lynch someone and sorry but i thought it was L-2 but i guess not (which i'm fine with)
I really haven't seen many people actually ask for the claim in the same post that they voted.
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@Jake: I am not a he!!!
Also @Jake: my early case on Robz had a lot more to it than just not being happy about him refusing to involve himself in the claiming exercise. For instance, he kept accusing me of being against/hesitant on the PPS wagon (!), and ignored at least two requests by me to back up his position with examples -- and that was before he disappeared entirely from the game.
@Andrew: I did say several things about set-up earlier in the game, and nobody joined in a conversation. I can't throw setup ideas back and forth all by myself (well, not with much success or any rapid successions of new insights), though.
@gkrieg & @Dylan: if you two both feel like Jake and Robz are the lynch pool for today, I'm willing to vote either one, though I'd readout like to see Robz back in the game first!!
sorry but your still scum Vote: SA only because it looks like gkrieg is not happening.
SA role?
Unannounced L-1 and demand for claim right here ^
Isn't that what you ask for at L-1 before you lynch someone and sorry but i thought it was L-2 but i guess not (which i'm fine with)
I really haven't seen many people actually ask for the claim in the same post that they voted.
Why not it saves cluttering the thread. Also why does that matter?
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@Jake: I am not a he!!!
Also @Jake: my early case on Robz had a lot more to it than just not being happy about him refusing to involve himself in the claiming exercise. For instance, he kept accusing me of being against/hesitant on the PPS wagon (!), and ignored at least two requests by me to back up his position with examples -- and that was before he disappeared entirely from the game.
@Andrew: I did say several things about set-up earlier in the game, and nobody joined in a conversation. I can't throw setup ideas back and forth all by myself (well, not with much success or any rapid successions of new insights), though.
@gkrieg & @Dylan: if you two both feel like Jake and Robz are the lynch pool for today, I'm willing to vote either one, though I'd readout like to see Robz back in the game first!!
sorry but your still scum Vote: SA only because it looks like gkrieg is not happening.
SA role?
Unannounced L-1 and demand for claim right here ^
Isn't that what you ask for at L-1 before you lynch someone and sorry but i thought it was L-2 but i guess not (which i'm fine with)
I really haven't seen many people actually ask for the claim in the same post that they voted.
Why not it saves cluttering the thread. Also why does that matter?
I don't know. I was just pointing it out. I was going to call you out for the unannounced L-1 and noticed the request for a claim so I included that. Anyway, claims are just sort of assumed to happen at L-1 when someone intends to hammer, so to vote and immediately be like "claim now" before you even know if anyone would actually hammer now seems slightly off.
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@Jake: I am not a he!!!
Also @Jake: my early case on Robz had a lot more to it than just not being happy about him refusing to involve himself in the claiming exercise. For instance, he kept accusing me of being against/hesitant on the PPS wagon (!), and ignored at least two requests by me to back up his position with examples -- and that was before he disappeared entirely from the game.
@Andrew: I did say several things about set-up earlier in the game, and nobody joined in a conversation. I can't throw setup ideas back and forth all by myself (well, not with much success or any rapid successions of new insights), though.
@gkrieg & @Dylan: if you two both feel like Jake and Robz are the lynch pool for today, I'm willing to vote either one, though I'd readout like to see Robz back in the game first!!
sorry but your still scum Vote: SA only because it looks like gkrieg is not happening.
SA role?
Unannounced L-1 and demand for claim right here ^
Isn't that what you ask for at L-1 before you lynch someone and sorry but i thought it was L-2 but i guess not (which i'm fine with)
I really haven't seen many people actually ask for the claim in the same post that they voted.
Why not it saves cluttering the thread. Also why does that matter?
I don't know. I was just pointing it out. I was going to call you out for the unannounced L-1 and noticed the request for a claim so I included that. Anyway, claims are just sort of assumed to happen at L-1 when someone intends to hammer, so to vote and immediately be like "claim now" before you even know if anyone would actually hammer now seems slightly off.
While I mean deadlines tomorrow so kind of urgent circumstances.
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@Jake: I am not a he!!!
Also @Jake: my early case on Robz had a lot more to it than just not being happy about him refusing to involve himself in the claiming exercise. For instance, he kept accusing me of being against/hesitant on the PPS wagon (!), and ignored at least two requests by me to back up his position with examples -- and that was before he disappeared entirely from the game.
@Andrew: I did say several things about set-up earlier in the game, and nobody joined in a conversation. I can't throw setup ideas back and forth all by myself (well, not with much success or any rapid successions of new insights), though.
@gkrieg & @Dylan: if you two both feel like Jake and Robz are the lynch pool for today, I'm willing to vote either one, though I'd readout like to see Robz back in the game first!!
sorry but your still scum Vote: SA only because it looks like gkrieg is not happening.
SA role?
Unannounced L-1 and demand for claim right here ^
Isn't that what you ask for at L-1 before you lynch someone and sorry but i thought it was L-2 but i guess not (which i'm fine with)
I really haven't seen many people actually ask for the claim in the same post that they voted.
Why not it saves cluttering the thread. Also why does that matter?
I don't know. I was just pointing it out. I was going to call you out for the unannounced L-1 and noticed the request for a claim so I included that. Anyway, claims are just sort of assumed to happen at L-1 when someone intends to hammer, so to vote and immediately be like "claim now" before you even know if anyone would actually hammer now seems slightly off.
While I mean deadlines tomorrow so kind of urgent circumstances.
Most lynches are pretty close to the deadline and aren't several calendar days early like D1 of this game, so this isn't anything unusual.
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@Jake: I am not a he!!!
Also @Jake: my early case on Robz had a lot more to it than just not being happy about him refusing to involve himself in the claiming exercise. For instance, he kept accusing me of being against/hesitant on the PPS wagon (!), and ignored at least two requests by me to back up his position with examples -- and that was before he disappeared entirely from the game.
@Andrew: I did say several things about set-up earlier in the game, and nobody joined in a conversation. I can't throw setup ideas back and forth all by myself (well, not with much success or any rapid successions of new insights), though.
@gkrieg & @Dylan: if you two both feel like Jake and Robz are the lynch pool for today, I'm willing to vote either one, though I'd readout like to see Robz back in the game first!!
sorry but your still scum Vote: SA only because it looks like gkrieg is not happening.
SA role?
Unannounced L-1 and demand for claim right here ^
Isn't that what you ask for at L-1 before you lynch someone and sorry but i thought it was L-2 but i guess not (which i'm fine with)
I really haven't seen many people actually ask for the claim in the same post that they voted.
Why not it saves cluttering the thread. Also why does that matter?
I don't know. I was just pointing it out. I was going to call you out for the unannounced L-1 and noticed the request for a claim so I included that. Anyway, claims are just sort of assumed to happen at L-1 when someone intends to hammer, so to vote and immediately be like "claim now" before you even know if anyone would actually hammer now seems slightly off.
While I mean deadlines tomorrow so kind of urgent circumstances.
Most lynches are pretty close to the deadline and aren't several calendar days early like D1 of this game, so this isn't anything unusual.
It's not unusual but still urgent.
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I would advise to wait for intent before you claim.
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Could one of you people who's at a computer just take it upon yourself to count votes please? I always feels a bit rude to me to demand a count from the mod... but right now on a phone till well after the deadline, doing a space count myself is a bit too hard (my signal is bad enough that I only get a requested page about one time in four our five attempts).
Unless it's L-1 with intent, then I'm not claiming. Unfortunately, I don't even think that particular behaviour is scummy from Jake because he has a history of expecting claims at L-1 as a matter of course, so I don't think he's ever considered the utility balance in it, as scum or as town.
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Request: Vote Count, because I always count it wrong
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Vote: Dylan is safe for now. I'd consider a Jake lynch, Space not such a good lynch IMO
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Vote Count 2.Joseph
SpaceAnemone (3): Robz888, AndrewisFTTW, JaketheBaseballGod22
Dylan32 (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (2): Dylan32, SpaceAnemone
not voting (1): gkrieg13
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 2 ends Saturday, April 1st at 6pm forum time.
So 12 hours to go, Space is on L-1
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Would lynch: Dylan, Jake
Could lynch: Robz, Space, Andrew
Don't want to lynch: gkrieg, Joseph2302
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I'l try to be around some point before deadline
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Ha, no way am I supporting a Dylan lynch just now.
vote: Jake to see whether there's traction there, since I'm still hesitant to push Robz in absentia.
Though with this little engagement in a game that's shaping up to be pretty shots so far, I do think replacement is an option Robz and schadd could maybe consider...
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Would lynch: Dylan, Jake
Could lynch: Robz, Space, Andrew
Don't want to lynch: gkrieg, Joseph2302
Would happily lynch: Dylan, Space, gkrieg
Would maybe lynch: Robz
Would not lynch: Andrew, Joseph Jake
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Also can anyone just say why their voting me because from what I hear mosts peoples reads on me are null to town? please say so if I am wrong.
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@Jake: I am not a he!!!
Also @Jake: my early case on Robz had a lot more to it than just not being happy about him refusing to involve himself in the claiming exercise. For instance, he kept accusing me of being against/hesitant on the PPS wagon (!), and ignored at least two requests by me to back up his position with examples -- and that was before he disappeared entirely from the game.
@Andrew: I did say several things about set-up earlier in the game, and nobody joined in a conversation. I can't throw setup ideas back and forth all by myself (well, not with much success or any rapid successions of new insights), though.
@gkrieg & @Dylan: if you two both feel like Jake and Robz are the lynch pool for today, I'm willing to vote either one, though I'd readout like to see Robz back in the game first!!
sorry but your still scum Vote: SA only because it looks like gkrieg is not happening.
SA role?
Unannounced L-1 and demand for claim right here ^
Isn't that what you ask for at L-1 before you lynch someone and sorry but i thought it was L-2 but i guess not (which i'm fine with)
Townslip? Even if it's not, Jake is pretty damn towny. Dylan less so for the pushback on this.
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I might not be here for deadline, not sure. But I wont be home today.
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@Jake: I am not a he!!!
Also @Jake: my early case on Robz had a lot more to it than just not being happy about him refusing to involve himself in the claiming exercise. For instance, he kept accusing me of being against/hesitant on the PPS wagon (!), and ignored at least two requests by me to back up his position with examples -- and that was before he disappeared entirely from the game.
@Andrew: I did say several things about set-up earlier in the game, and nobody joined in a conversation. I can't throw setup ideas back and forth all by myself (well, not with much success or any rapid successions of new insights), though.
@gkrieg & @Dylan: if you two both feel like Jake and Robz are the lynch pool for today, I'm willing to vote either one, though I'd readout like to see Robz back in the game first!!
sorry but your still scum Vote: SA only because it looks like gkrieg is not happening.
SA role?
Unannounced L-1 and demand for claim right here ^
Isn't that what you ask for at L-1 before you lynch someone and sorry but i thought it was L-2 but i guess not (which i'm fine with)
Townslip? Even if it's not, Jake is pretty damn towny. Dylan less so for the pushback on this.
I just caught something in Jake's explanation. "isn't that what you ask at l-1" implied he thought it was L-1 because he knew to ask the question then, but then he said he thought it was L-2 to avoid the pressure of the unannounced L-1. That's super scummy!
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vote: Jake
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Would also go Robz or Andrew.
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Ha, no way am I supporting a Dylan lynch just now.
vote: Jake to see whether there's traction there, since I'm still hesitant to push Robz in absentia.
Though with this little engagement in a game that's shaping up to be pretty shots so far, I do think replacement is an option Robz and schadd could maybe consider...
That is one argument for Robz being scum. As town I think he would've replaced by now, because clearly he is being anti town in such a small game.
request prod and replacement for Robz.
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Joseph did not include my vote on Jake, so that's L-1
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At least I don't remember moving my vote back to Joseph. In case I did, vote: Jake L-1
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Furthermore, @Andrew, how on earth were you reading Jake's explanation of L-1 as a townslip?
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Interesting that we have this weird 3v 3 with Joseph in the middle. Jake and Andrew don't want to lynch each other (and I'm putting Robz in your camp because you are using his vote) and SA and Dylan and me don't really want to lynch each other.
I wonder if scum is all in one camp, or if they have split themselves. I would expect vet scum not to bus. So I would actually expect a Robz Andrew team here.
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Can not one person who is voting for me say why they are?!?!?!?
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@Jake: I am not a he!!!
Also @Jake: my early case on Robz had a lot more to it than just not being happy about him refusing to involve himself in the claiming exercise. For instance, he kept accusing me of being against/hesitant on the PPS wagon (!), and ignored at least two requests by me to back up his position with examples -- and that was before he disappeared entirely from the game.
@Andrew: I did say several things about set-up earlier in the game, and nobody joined in a conversation. I can't throw setup ideas back and forth all by myself (well, not with much success or any rapid successions of new insights), though.
@gkrieg & @Dylan: if you two both feel like Jake and Robz are the lynch pool for today, I'm willing to vote either one, though I'd readout like to see Robz back in the game first!!
sorry but your still scum Vote: SA only because it looks like gkrieg is not happening.
SA role?
Unannounced L-1 and demand for claim right here ^
Isn't that what you ask for at L-1 before you lynch someone and sorry but i thought it was L-2 but i guess not (which i'm fine with)
Townslip? Even if it's not, Jake is pretty damn towny. Dylan less so for the pushback on this.
I just caught something in Jake's explanation. "isn't that what you ask at l-1" implied he thought it was L-1 because he knew to ask the question then, but then he said he thought it was L-2 to avoid the pressure of the unannounced L-1. That's super scummy!
Sorry for the truth being scummy
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@Jake: I am not a he!!!
Also @Jake: my early case on Robz had a lot more to it than just not being happy about him refusing to involve himself in the claiming exercise. For instance, he kept accusing me of being against/hesitant on the PPS wagon (!), and ignored at least two requests by me to back up his position with examples -- and that was before he disappeared entirely from the game.
@Andrew: I did say several things about set-up earlier in the game, and nobody joined in a conversation. I can't throw setup ideas back and forth all by myself (well, not with much success or any rapid successions of new insights), though.
@gkrieg & @Dylan: if you two both feel like Jake and Robz are the lynch pool for today, I'm willing to vote either one, though I'd readout like to see Robz back in the game first!!
sorry but your still scum Vote: SA only because it looks like gkrieg is not happening.
SA role?
Unannounced L-1 and demand for claim right here ^
Isn't that what you ask for at L-1 before you lynch someone and sorry but i thought it was L-2 but i guess not (which i'm fine with)
Townslip? Even if it's not, Jake is pretty damn towny. Dylan less so for the pushback on this.
I just caught something in Jake's explanation. "isn't that what you ask at l-1" implied he thought it was L-1 because he knew to ask the question then, but then he said he thought it was L-2 to avoid the pressure of the unannounced L-1. That's super scummy!
Sorry for the truth being scummy
What truth? That you thought it was L-1 so you asked for a claim but then lied and said you thought it was L-2? Because that is what it looks like.
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Interesting that we have this weird 3v 3 with Joseph in the middle. Jake and Andrew don't want to lynch each other (and I'm putting Robz in your camp because you are using his vote) and SA and Dylan and me don't really want to lynch each other.
I wonder if scum is all in one camp, or if they have split themselves. I would expect vet scum not to bus. So I would actually expect a Robz Andrew team here.
Would you be open to lynching robz?
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@Jake: I am not a he!!!
Also @Jake: my early case on Robz had a lot more to it than just not being happy about him refusing to involve himself in the claiming exercise. For instance, he kept accusing me of being against/hesitant on the PPS wagon (!), and ignored at least two requests by me to back up his position with examples -- and that was before he disappeared entirely from the game.
@Andrew: I did say several things about set-up earlier in the game, and nobody joined in a conversation. I can't throw setup ideas back and forth all by myself (well, not with much success or any rapid successions of new insights), though.
@gkrieg & @Dylan: if you two both feel like Jake and Robz are the lynch pool for today, I'm willing to vote either one, though I'd readout like to see Robz back in the game first!!
sorry but your still scum Vote: SA only because it looks like gkrieg is not happening.
SA role?
Unannounced L-1 and demand for claim right here ^
Isn't that what you ask for at L-1 before you lynch someone and sorry but i thought it was L-2 but i guess not (which i'm fine with)
Townslip? Even if it's not, Jake is pretty damn towny. Dylan less so for the pushback on this.
I just caught something in Jake's explanation. "isn't that what you ask at l-1" implied he thought it was L-1 because he knew to ask the question then, but then he said he thought it was L-2 to avoid the pressure of the unannounced L-1. That's super scummy!
You're right, I missed that. It's weird but not scummy. I've made a similar mistake. If he scum he would probably be more careful about all of that. Then again we're talking about Jake here.
Furthermore, @Andrew, how on earth were you reading Jake's explanation of L-1 as a townslip?
I guess I was thinking him unknowingly putting SA to L-1 but I missed the the fact that he asked for a claim when he thought it was L-2. So not a townslip, obviously. Although it is weird, as I said above, I think it's just town!Jake being a little careless.
Interesting that we have this weird 3v 3 with Joseph in the middle. Jake and Andrew don't want to lynch each other (and I'm putting Robz in your camp because you are using his vote) and SA and Dylan and me don't really want to lynch each other.
I wonder if scum is all in one camp, or if they have split themselves. I would expect vet scum not to bus. So I would actually expect a Robz Andrew team here.
What do you mean "using his vote" and who are you referring to exactly?
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@Jake: I am not a he!!!
Also @Jake: my early case on Robz had a lot more to it than just not being happy about him refusing to involve himself in the claiming exercise. For instance, he kept accusing me of being against/hesitant on the PPS wagon (!), and ignored at least two requests by me to back up his position with examples -- and that was before he disappeared entirely from the game.
@Andrew: I did say several things about set-up earlier in the game, and nobody joined in a conversation. I can't throw setup ideas back and forth all by myself (well, not with much success or any rapid successions of new insights), though.
@gkrieg & @Dylan: if you two both feel like Jake and Robz are the lynch pool for today, I'm willing to vote either one, though I'd readout like to see Robz back in the game first!!
sorry but your still scum Vote: SA only because it looks like gkrieg is not happening.
SA role?
Unannounced L-1 and demand for claim right here ^
Isn't that what you ask for at L-1 before you lynch someone and sorry but i thought it was L-2 but i guess not (which i'm fine with)
Townslip? Even if it's not, Jake is pretty damn towny. Dylan less so for the pushback on this.
I just caught something in Jake's explanation. "isn't that what you ask at l-1" implied he thought it was L-1 because he knew to ask the question then, but then he said he thought it was L-2 to avoid the pressure of the unannounced L-1. That's super scummy!
Sorry for the truth being scummy
What truth? That you thought it was L-1 so you asked for a claim but then lied and said you thought it was L-2? Because that is what it looks like.
The truth that I thought it was L-2 and i thought andrew was about too vote SA because he just said SA was scummy in the post before. I did not relize Andrew already was voting for SA since there hadn't been a vote count in like 5 pages so i asked for a claim figuring that he was going to be put on L-1 shortly.
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What truth? That you thought it was L-1 so you asked for a claim but then lied and said you thought it was L-2? Because that is what it looks like.
How does it benefit Jake to lie about that? What's scum!Jake's master plan here?
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I would definitely go Robz or Andrew. Feeling less good about Jake right now actually. His last little spat was townie. unvote
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I would definitely go Robz or Andrew. Feeling less good about Jake right now actually. His last little spat was townie. unvote
Ok Hedgy McHedgington. Are you going to vote me or what? Your "scum read" on me has been steadily growing ever since I cast a little suspicion on you despite you not providing a case yourself. Go for it.
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I would definitely go Robz or Andrew. Feeling less good about Jake right now actually. His last little spat was townie. unvote
Ok Hedgy McHedgington. Are you going to vote me or what? Your "scum read" on me has been steadily growing ever since I cast a little suspicion on you despite you not providing a case yourself. Go for it.
Not really hedging. The people I have thought were townie at L-1 are now on the townie side of my reads list.
vote: Andrew
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I knew you could do it!
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I'm feeling better about Andrew. Let's get this wagon going!
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And everyone goes silent.
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I'm feeling better about Andrew. Let's get this wagon going!
Nope
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What truth? That you thought it was L-1 so you asked for a claim but then lied and said you thought it was L-2? Because that is what it looks like.
How does it benefit Jake to lie about that? What's scum!Jake's master plan here?
Scum!Jake puts Space on an unannounced L-1 and asks for claim. I call him on the unannounced part and so he tries to spin it to look towny by saying he just thought the claim was what you do at L-1, but he thought it was L-2.
I'm not sure I buy the whole expecting Andrew to put Space on L-1 while thinking it was L-2.
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What truth? That you thought it was L-1 so you asked for a claim but then lied and said you thought it was L-2? Because that is what it looks like.
How does it benefit Jake to lie about that? What's scum!Jake's master plan here?
Scum!Jake puts Space on an unannounced L-1 and asks for claim. I call him on the unannounced part and so he tries to spin it to look towny by saying he just thought the claim was what you do at L-1, but he thought it was L-2.
I'm not sure I buy the whole expecting Andrew to put Space on L-1 while thinking it was L-2.
... and that being the reason he asked for the claim early. That sounds like something you come up with after the fact rather than what you actually are thinking on an L-2 vote.
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And everyone goes silent.
Do you want to put forward a case on Andrew maybe? When I was scum-reading him earlier, neither you nor Dylan seemed that interested, which worries me slightly.
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What truth? That you thought it was L-1 so you asked for a claim but then lied and said you thought it was L-2? Because that is what it looks like.
How does it benefit Jake to lie about that? What's scum!Jake's master plan here?
Scum!Jake puts Space on an unannounced L-1 and asks for claim. I call him on the unannounced part and so he tries to spin it to look towny by saying he just thought the claim was what you do at L-1, but he thought it was L-2.
I'm not sure I buy the whole expecting Andrew to put Space on L-1 while thinking it was L-2.
This was literally the post before
I actually think I was the one to diffuse both the SA and the Joseph wagons IIRC.
I don't remember about SA, but you definitely were the one that stopped the Joseph wagon, which I still am not sure was a good thing.
So you want to mislynch me? Seems scummy.
No actual reasons given
On the contrary, this^ is scummy. I agree with Jake on SA as well but disagree about gkrieg. Just because gkrieg supposedly sheeps/agrees with SA isn't an indication he's scum. He's pretty null for me actually and I'd rather lynch one of SA or Joseph.
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And everyone goes silent.
Do you want to put forward a case on Andrew maybe? When I was scum-reading him earlier, neither you nor Dylan seemed that interested, which worries me slightly.
He was null to me earlier, and now I'm trying to avoid just giving in to OMGUS. Do you remember where your case was? I'll go back and read it.
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What truth? That you thought it was L-1 so you asked for a claim but then lied and said you thought it was L-2? Because that is what it looks like.
How does it benefit Jake to lie about that? What's scum!Jake's master plan here?
Scum!Jake puts Space on an unannounced L-1 and asks for claim. I call him on the unannounced part and so he tries to spin it to look towny by saying he just thought the claim was what you do at L-1, but he thought it was L-2.
I'm not sure I buy the whole expecting Andrew to put Space on L-1 while thinking it was L-2.
This was literally the post before
I actually think I was the one to diffuse both the SA and the Joseph wagons IIRC.
I don't remember about SA, but you definitely were the one that stopped the Joseph wagon, which I still am not sure was a good thing.
So you want to mislynch me? Seems scummy.
No actual reasons given
On the contrary, this^ is scummy. I agree with Jake on SA as well but disagree about gkrieg. Just because gkrieg supposedly sheeps/agrees with SA isn't an indication he's scum. He's pretty null for me actually and I'd rather lynch one of SA or Joseph.
Ok. There's nothing there that says a vote on SA is looming. People give their lynch preferences and don't follow up with votes all the time.
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What truth? That you thought it was L-1 so you asked for a claim but then lied and said you thought it was L-2? Because that is what it looks like.
How does it benefit Jake to lie about that? What's scum!Jake's master plan here?
Scum!Jake puts Space on an unannounced L-1 and asks for claim. I call him on the unannounced part and so he tries to spin it to look towny by saying he just thought the claim was what you do at L-1, but he thought it was L-2.
I'm not sure I buy the whole expecting Andrew to put Space on L-1 while thinking it was L-2.
This was literally the post before
I actually think I was the one to diffuse both the SA and the Joseph wagons IIRC.
I don't remember about SA, but you definitely were the one that stopped the Joseph wagon, which I still am not sure was a good thing.
So you want to mislynch me? Seems scummy.
No actual reasons given
On the contrary, this^ is scummy. I agree with Jake on SA as well but disagree about gkrieg. Just because gkrieg supposedly sheeps/agrees with SA isn't an indication he's scum. He's pretty null for me actually and I'd rather lynch one of SA or Joseph.
Ok. There's nothing there that says a vote on SA is looming. People give their lynch preferences and don't follow up with votes all the time.
Edit: "don't *immediately* follow up with votes"
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What truth? That you thought it was L-1 so you asked for a claim but then lied and said you thought it was L-2? Because that is what it looks like.
How does it benefit Jake to lie about that? What's scum!Jake's master plan here?
Scum!Jake puts Space on an unannounced L-1 and asks for claim. I call him on the unannounced part and so he tries to spin it to look towny by saying he just thought the claim was what you do at L-1, but he thought it was L-2.
I'm not sure I buy the whole expecting Andrew to put Space on L-1 while thinking it was L-2.
This was literally the post before
I actually think I was the one to diffuse both the SA and the Joseph wagons IIRC.
I don't remember about SA, but you definitely were the one that stopped the Joseph wagon, which I still am not sure was a good thing.
So you want to mislynch me? Seems scummy.
No actual reasons given
On the contrary, this^ is scummy. I agree with Jake on SA as well but disagree about gkrieg. Just because gkrieg supposedly sheeps/agrees with SA isn't an indication he's scum. He's pretty null for me actually and I'd rather lynch one of SA or Joseph.
Ok. There's nothing there that says a vote on SA is looming. People give their lynch preferences and don't follow up with votes all the time.
Do you have any other reasons that you find me as scum or just this?
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And everyone goes silent.
Do you want to put forward a case on Andrew maybe? When I was scum-reading him earlier, neither you nor Dylan seemed that interested, which worries me slightly.
He was null to me earlier, and now I'm trying to avoid just giving in to OMGUS. Do you remember where your case was? I'll go back and read it.
Going back is more sensible... no way can I quote a bunch of useful things in one post from my phone just now.
He was mostly scum-reading me for behaving in what I believed was a totally justified townie way and being super careless about leaving me at L-1.
How long now till deadline? Am about to be offline for a while unless it's really soon, if signal is even cooperating...
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And everyone goes silent.
Do you want to put forward a case on Andrew maybe? When I was scum-reading him earlier, neither you nor Dylan seemed that interested, which worries me slightly.
On phone until deadline sadly
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And everyone goes silent.
Do you want to put forward a case on Andrew maybe? When I was scum-reading him earlier, neither you nor Dylan seemed that interested, which worries me slightly.
He was null to me earlier, and now I'm trying to avoid just giving in to OMGUS. Do you remember where your case was? I'll go back and read it.
Going back is more sensible... no way can I quote a bunch of useful things in one post from my phone just now.
He was mostly scum-reading me for behaving in what I believed was a totally justified townie way and being super careless about leaving me at L-1.
How long now till deadline? Am about to be offline for a while unless it's really soon, if signal is even cooperating...
Ok, I just went back and read 5ish pages and didn't really see a case on him except for you defending yourself. I try not to base reads just on differences of opinions, and that seems to be the biggest thing I see with Andrew.
D2 ends 6 pm forum time this evening.
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And everyone goes silent.
Do you want to put forward a case on Andrew maybe? When I was scum-reading him earlier, neither you nor Dylan seemed that interested, which worries me slightly.
He was null to me earlier, and now I'm trying to avoid just giving in to OMGUS. Do you remember where your case was? I'll go back and read it.
Going back is more sensible... no way can I quote a bunch of useful things in one post from my phone just now.
He was mostly scum-reading me for behaving in what I believed was a totally justified townie way and being super careless about leaving me at L-1.
How long now till deadline? Am about to be offline for a while unless it's really soon, if signal is even cooperating...
Obviously we disagree on what is or isn't scummy and obviously you're biased. That doesn't make me scummy in the least. Actually it's pretty OMGUS.
Also you keep saying me leaving you at L-1 is careless. No. It's not. Really. Not at all.
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Reads:
Scum - Joseph, Jake
null-slight scum/would lynch: Andrew, Robz
Town - gkrieg, Space
PPE 1
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And everyone goes silent.
Do you want to put forward a case on Andrew maybe? When I was scum-reading him earlier, neither you nor Dylan seemed that interested, which worries me slightly.
He was null to me earlier, and now I'm trying to avoid just giving in to OMGUS. Do you remember where your case was? I'll go back and read it.
Going back is more sensible... no way can I quote a bunch of useful things in one post from my phone just now.
He was mostly scum-reading me for behaving in what I believed was a totally justified townie way and being super careless about leaving me at L-1.
How long now till deadline? Am about to be offline for a while unless it's really soon, if signal is even cooperating...
Ok, I just went back and read 5ish pages and didn't really see a case on him except for you defending yourself. I try not to base reads just on differences of opinions, and that seems to be the biggest thing I see with Andrew.
D2 ends 6 pm forum time this evening.
your entire scum read against me is based on opinions. If not then please say what it is based on because honestly I've asked everybody multiple times and no one can give me a response.
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Very sorry. Don't replace! Catching up now.
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I mean my case on Andrew is a lot of POE and some stuff I can't talk about.
Joseph is town because of what he said at L-1. Jake is town because of how he is acting right now. SA seemed townie to me from the beginning and I also town read Dylan for now. I will have a hard time scum reading him this game from mislynching him a couple times in my last two games. That just leaves Robz and Andrew.
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And everyone goes silent.
Do you want to put forward a case on Andrew maybe? When I was scum-reading him earlier, neither you nor Dylan seemed that interested, which worries me slightly.
He was null to me earlier, and now I'm trying to avoid just giving in to OMGUS. Do you remember where your case was? I'll go back and read it.
Going back is more sensible... no way can I quote a bunch of useful things in one post from my phone just now.
He was mostly scum-reading me for behaving in what I believed was a totally justified townie way and being super careless about leaving me at L-1.
How long now till deadline? Am about to be offline for a while unless it's really soon, if signal is even cooperating...
Ok, I just went back and read 5ish pages and didn't really see a case on him except for you defending yourself. I try not to base reads just on differences of opinions, and that seems to be the biggest thing I see with Andrew.
D2 ends 6 pm forum time this evening.
your entire scum read against me is based on opinions. If not then please say what it is based on because honestly I've asked everybody multiple times and no one can give me a response.
Literally every read in this game is based on opinions. Excluding PR gained info, literally everything everyone does in this game is based on opinions and interpretations of what has been said. My opinion is that you have seemed somewhat scummy. But personally, I am more motivated by the POE I laid out earlier that narrowed it down to Robz, Joseph, and you for today, because I think lynching one of the 3 of you is our best chance for hitting scum. And since no one apparently wants to lynch Robz--who just showed up--because of his complete absence, you or Joseph seem like the best bets to me.
PPE 1
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Caught up! So, I actually think gkrieg is maybe scum, although I don't know if we could possibly get a wagon going on him in the next 2 hours.
Gkrieg has gotten almost no votes and very little suspicion, despite being extremely active and pursuing cases on others, and getting into disagreements. He's playing extremely savvy.
Do I think this strongly? Eh, I'm not sure. Honestly, those last pages were rough. I was changing my mind about Joseph and Jake from post to post. On one hand I do see the case against Jake, but then I also see a little bit of the old town Jake in there. With Joseph, I liked the scum slip argument, but on the other hand those almost ever hold water.
I don't want to lynch SA anymore, at all.
I would lynch Andrew, I guess. No real reason. Who's here? We have two hours, right?
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almost never* hold water
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Vote: Gkrieg
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I'm on phone til deadline.
Request: Vote Count since apparently I can't count
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Caught up! So, I actually think gkrieg is maybe scum, although I don't know if we could possibly get a wagon going on him in the next 2 hours.
Gkrieg has gotten almost no votes and very little suspicion, despite being extremely active and pursuing cases on others, and getting into disagreements. He's playing extremely savvy.
Do I think this strongly? Eh, I'm not sure. Honestly, those last pages were rough. I was changing my mind about Joseph and Jake from post to post. On one hand I do see the case against Jake, but then I also see a little bit of the old town Jake in there. With Joseph, I liked the scum slip argument, but on the other hand those almost ever hold water.
I don't want to lynch SA anymore, at all.
I would lynch Andrew, I guess. No real reason. Who's here? We have two hours, right?
Is that really it? I'm active and being town read by a lot of people? I would also argue that I have gotten plenty of suspicion. Certainly not "very little" as you state.
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I'm here on and off until deadline. No promises though.
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Caught up! So, I actually think gkrieg is maybe scum, although I don't know if we could possibly get a wagon going on him in the next 2 hours.
Gkrieg has gotten almost no votes and very little suspicion, despite being extremely active and pursuing cases on others, and getting into disagreements. He's playing extremely savvy.
Do I think this strongly? Eh, I'm not sure. Honestly, those last pages were rough. I was changing my mind about Joseph and Jake from post to post. On one hand I do see the case against Jake, but then I also see a little bit of the old town Jake in there. With Joseph, I liked the scum slip argument, but on the other hand those almost ever hold water.
I don't want to lynch SA anymore, at all.
I would lynch Andrew, I guess. No real reason. Who's here? We have two hours, right?
Hey someone else sees that gkrieg is scummy.
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I'm here on and off until deadline. No promises though.
I'll be here till the deadline
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Caught up! So, I actually think gkrieg is maybe scum, although I don't know if we could possibly get a wagon going on him in the next 2 hours.
Gkrieg has gotten almost no votes and very little suspicion, despite being extremely active and pursuing cases on others, and getting into disagreements. He's playing extremely savvy.
Do I think this strongly? Eh, I'm not sure. Honestly, those last pages were rough. I was changing my mind about Joseph and Jake from post to post. On one hand I do see the case against Jake, but then I also see a little bit of the old town Jake in there. With Joseph, I liked the scum slip argument, but on the other hand those almost ever hold water.
I don't want to lynch SA anymore, at all.
I would lynch Andrew, I guess. No real reason. Who's here? We have two hours, right?
Is that really it? I'm active and being town read by a lot of people? I would also argue that I have gotten plenty of suspicion. Certainly not "very little" as you state.
Very little relative to everyone else. Almost no one has voted for you. Just Jake on Day 1, and then Jake on Day 2 after you started pushing him.
Am I wrong? very possibly! I don't know what else to tell you. I can't commit to strong opinions at this point, since nothing that's happened so far would justify them.
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Caught up! So, I actually think gkrieg is maybe scum, although I don't know if we could possibly get a wagon going on him in the next 2 hours.
Gkrieg has gotten almost no votes and very little suspicion, despite being extremely active and pursuing cases on others, and getting into disagreements. He's playing extremely savvy.
Do I think this strongly? Eh, I'm not sure. Honestly, those last pages were rough. I was changing my mind about Joseph and Jake from post to post. On one hand I do see the case against Jake, but then I also see a little bit of the old town Jake in there. With Joseph, I liked the scum slip argument, but on the other hand those almost ever hold water.
I don't want to lynch SA anymore, at all.
I would lynch Andrew, I guess. No real reason. Who's here? We have two hours, right?
Is that really it? I'm active and being town read by a lot of people? I would also argue that I have gotten plenty of suspicion. Certainly not "very little" as you state.
Very little relative to everyone else. Almost no one has voted for you. Just Jake on Day 1, and then Jake on Day 2 after you started pushing him.
Am I wrong? very possibly! I don't know what else to tell you. I can't commit to strong opinions at this point, since nothing that's happened so far would justify them.
hey everyone can we get a gkrieg wagon going?????
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I will be on for roughly the next half hour, then I will be mostly off but will be able to check in and move my vote close to the deadline if need be.
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I'm voting for gkrieg in part to move my vote from SA, who doesn't read like scum to me anymore. But I would attach myself to a more serious wagon, if I knew how the votes stand. I guess I can go do a count myself...
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I'm voting for gkrieg in part to move my vote from SA, who doesn't read like scum to me anymore. But I would attach myself to a more serious wagon, if I knew how the votes stand. I guess I can go do a count myself...
OK here's one Vote: Gkrieg13
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Vote Count 2.4
SpaceAnemone (1): AndrewisFTTW
JaketheBaseballGod22 (2): Dylan32, SpaceAnemone
Dylan32 (1): Joseph2302
AndrewisFTTW (1): gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (2): Robz888, JaketheBaseballGod22
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 2 ends Saturday, April 1st at 6pm forum time. this is in an hour and a half
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Caught up! So, I actually think gkrieg is maybe scum, although I don't know if we could possibly get a wagon going on him in the next 2 hours.
Gkrieg has gotten almost no votes and very little suspicion, despite being extremely active and pursuing cases on others, and getting into disagreements. He's playing extremely savvy.
Do I think this strongly? Eh, I'm not sure. Honestly, those last pages were rough. I was changing my mind about Joseph and Jake from post to post. On one hand I do see the case against Jake, but then I also see a little bit of the old town Jake in there. With Joseph, I liked the scum slip argument, but on the other hand those almost ever hold water.
I don't want to lynch SA anymore, at all.
I would lynch Andrew, I guess. No real reason. Who's here? We have two hours, right?
Is that really it? I'm active and being town read by a lot of people? I would also argue that I have gotten plenty of suspicion. Certainly not "very little" as you state.
Very little relative to everyone else. Almost no one has voted for you. Just Jake on Day 1, and then Jake on Day 2 after you started pushing him.
Am I wrong? very possibly! I don't know what else to tell you. I can't commit to strong opinions at this point, since nothing that's happened so far would justify them.
Once again, how am I scum from that?
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I don't want to lynch SA or Joseph or Jake. Would lynch anyone out of self preservation though.
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I don't want to lynch SA or Joseph or Jake. Would lynch anyone out of self preservation though.
How about Dylan?
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Would not lynch: Joseph, Andrew
May Lynch: Robz
Would lynch: Dylan Gkrieg, SA
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Caught up! So, I actually think gkrieg is maybe scum, although I don't know if we could possibly get a wagon going on him in the next 2 hours.
Gkrieg has gotten almost no votes and very little suspicion, despite being extremely active and pursuing cases on others, and getting into disagreements. He's playing extremely savvy.
Do I think this strongly? Eh, I'm not sure. Honestly, those last pages were rough. I was changing my mind about Joseph and Jake from post to post. On one hand I do see the case against Jake, but then I also see a little bit of the old town Jake in there. With Joseph, I liked the scum slip argument, but on the other hand those almost ever hold water.
I don't want to lynch SA anymore, at all.
I would lynch Andrew, I guess. No real reason. Who's here? We have two hours, right?
Is that really it? I'm active and being town read by a lot of people? I would also argue that I have gotten plenty of suspicion. Certainly not "very little" as you state.
Very little relative to everyone else. Almost no one has voted for you. Just Jake on Day 1, and then Jake on Day 2 after you started pushing him.
Am I wrong? very possibly! I don't know what else to tell you. I can't commit to strong opinions at this point, since nothing that's happened so far would justify them.
Once again, how am I scum from that?
I don't know, because scum are better at avoiding engaging in suspicious behavior than town. Though this holds less water for you.
I mean, you're right, my case is thin. I'll move to an even thinner case, then:
Vote: Andrew
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Would also lynch Dylan for similarly thin reasons.
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Gah, I'm simultaneously suspecting and sheeping gkrieg.
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Robz and Gkrieg would you be open to lynching dylan? Also anyone else on same thing?
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Robz and Gkrieg would you be open to lynching dylan? Also anyone else on same thing?
Yes.
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Honestly we just need a lynch.
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Robz, how did you end up on Joseph? You said you went back and forth every post on Jake and him, but you only said what you actually thought about Jake.
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Vote: Jake this is L-1
Seems a better lynch option than gkrieg
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Vote: Jake this is L-1
Seems a better lynch option than gkrieg
What about dylan?
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Dylan, I said this:
With Joseph, I liked the scum slip argument, but on the other hand those almost ever hold water.
Add I meant *never
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Intent to hammer Jake
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Intent to hammer Jake
that would be a VERY UNHEALTHY IDEA!!!!!
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Well since gkrieg is now not gonna happen i guess i'll Vote: Dylan
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Dylan, I said this:
With Joseph, I liked the scum slip argument, but on the other hand those almost ever hold water.
Add I meant *never
PPE 2
Ah. Ok. Not sure how I missed that.
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Real quick before the hammer can anyone (like the 9th time I've asked now) make the case against me? PLEASE TRY AT LEAST!!! Also I guarantee that both scum are on my wagon.
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Mehhh I really don't like the Jake lynch. What else can we do?
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Vote: Dylan
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Mehhh I really don't like the Jake lynch. What else can we do?
dylan
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Vote: Jake this is L-1
Seems a better lynch option than gkrieg
Why not Dylan? You should vote Dylan.
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Vote: Robz
Stating intent to hammer and then pulling off for seemingly no reason. Trying to avoid the lynch of his partner maybe?
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Also I thought Jake was town but Robz pulling that move is scummy as hell. I think lynching either one would be good at this point.
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Vote: Robz
Stating intent to hammer and then pulling off for seemingly no reason. Trying to avoid the lynch of his partner maybe?
Yeah, I wavered we have more time than I thought. But there's no wagon on me, voting for me is bad and unhelpful.
You should vote for Dylan.
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Vote: Robz
Stating intent to hammer and then pulling off for seemingly no reason. Trying to avoid the lynch of his partner maybe?
Yeah, I wavered we have more time than I thought. But there's no wagon on me, voting for me is bad and unhelpful.
You should vote for Dylan.
A.K.A. you shouldn't lynch my scum partner? Like you said, we have some time. We could get a wagon on one of you in the next 45 minutes.
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Vote Count 2.5
JaketheBaseballGod22 (3): Dylan32, SpaceAnemone, Joseph2302
Dylan32 (2): JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888
AndrewisFTTW (1): gkrieg13
Robz888 (1): AndrewisFTTW
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 2 ends Saturday, April 1st at 6pm forum time. this is in 45 min
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Oh right Jake is at L-1.
Intent to hammer.
Jake do you want to claim?
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Oh right Jake is at L-1.
Intent to hammer.
Jake do you want to claim?
I'm at L-2 and I maybe did or didn't or did or didn't.
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Oh right Jake is at L-1.
Intent to hammer.
Jake do you want to claim?
I'm at L-2 and I maybe did or didn't or did or didn't.
which might be a reason why robz switched
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Oh right Jake is at L-1.
Intent to hammer.
Jake do you want to claim?
Okay, well you missed something big. Jake essentially claimed Doctor, so we probably shouldn't lynch him.
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Oh right Jake is at L-1.
Intent to hammer.
Jake do you want to claim?
Okay, well you missed something big. Jake essentially claimed Doctor, so we probably shouldn't lynch him.
Thanks for getting me killed tonight robz/andrew
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So can we lynch Andrew yet?
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Oh right Jake is at L-1.
Intent to hammer.
Jake do you want to claim?
I'm at L-2 and I maybe did or didn't or did or didn't.
which might be a reason why robz switched
I think it's too late now to play coy, Jake. Mafia will have noticed your softclaim.
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Oh right Jake is at L-1.
Intent to hammer.
Jake do you want to claim?
Okay, well you missed something big. Jake essentially claimed Doctor, so we probably shouldn't lynch him.
Really? I guess I missed that.
unvote
Let me go back and read again.
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So can we lynch Andrew yet?
Certainly. Vote: Andrew
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Intent to hammer Jake
that would be a VERY UNHEALTHY IDEA!!!!!
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I would also go Dylan now.
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I wanna lynch dylan before i'll lynch andrew. He has seemed towny all game to me.
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vote: Dylan
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vote: Dylan
There's two. Dylan is on L-2 btw
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Intent to hammer Jake
that would be a VERY UNHEALTHY IDEA!!!!!
Wow. I suck at this game.
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I actually thought Dylan was a PR, but now know that is impossible.
I'm the Rolecop.
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Space is vanilla.
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Archive.. here for ~10 mins. I'm willing to follow the claimed PRs of they agree on a lynch.. is Dylan a go?
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I actually thought Dylan was a PR, but now know that is impossible.
I'm the Rolecop.
That would mean that this is setup 5 (probably i doubt there's a JK) That means scum is a tracker and goon.
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Archive.. here for ~10 mins. I'm willing to follow the claimed PRs of they agree on a lynch.. is Dylan a go?
yeah dylan wanna claim?
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Anyone wanna counterclaim gkrieg?
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Anyone wanna counterclaim gkrieg?
I'm a VT so it checks out for me. Though vanilla is also the safest claim for someone who doesn't know things anyway, so that evidence is only weak.
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I actually thought Dylan was a PR, but now know that is impossible.
I'm the Rolecop.
That would mean that this is setup 5 (probably i doubt there's a JK) That means scum is a tracker and goon.
I totally did not see the setup with the JK...
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Ok cool, this is actually good I think that you guys claimed. I was leaning scum on Dylan earlier for the way he was pressing Jake.
We sure he's on L-2? I don't wanna derphammer.
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I'm fine with Dylan or Andrew. It's close but I probably narrowly prefer Dylan.
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I think my "archive" = "argh" correction may just have been eaten by my signal trouble :-(
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Ok cool, this is actually good I think that you guys claimed. I was leaning scum on Dylan earlier for the way he was pressing Jake.
We sure he's on L-2? I don't wanna derphammer.
yeah robz unvoted him for you
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Can someone tell me who is voting Dylan?
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Can someone tell me who is voting Dylan?
me and gkrieg
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Anyone wanna counterclaim gkrieg?
I'm a VT so it checks out for me. Though vanilla is also the safest claim for someone who doesn't know things anyway, so that evidence is only weak.
Goons give a vanilla result I think, so that doesn't clear you.
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vote: Andrew
I commonly mislynch Dylan.
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Dylan wanna claim also meanaswhile just claim your role now since most of the roles are out there now anyways.
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Vote: Dylan I guess trust the PR
PPE: 2
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vote: Andrew
I commonly mislynch Dylan.
That's not a defense for why he's not scum.
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Intent to hammer
About 30 mins to deadline.
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vote: Andrew
I commonly mislynch Dylan.
That's not a defense for why he's not scum.
Well I also think he has been townier than Andrew
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Intent to hammer
About 30 mins to deadline.
I think he is L-2? Unless Robz voted for him.
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Intent to hammer
About 30 mins to deadline.
I think he is L-2? Unless Robz voted for him.
he is and you or robz should vote for him.
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20 MINUTE WARNING!!!
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Oh I saw Joseph's vote but didn't account for Gkrieg moving his vote.
Vote: Dylan
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Intent to hammer
About 30 mins to deadline.
I think he is L-2? Unless Robz voted for him.
he is and you or robz should vote for him.
Why Dylan over Andrew?
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Intent to hammer
About 30 mins to deadline.
I think he is L-2? Unless Robz voted for him.
he is and you or robz should vote for him.
Why Dylan over Andrew?
because to me andrew has been much townier this game rather then dylan
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Vote: Dylan
Thinking about it a bit longer, I think Andrew missing the Jake thing is probably townier, rather than scummier.
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Vote: Dylan
Thinking about it a bit longer, I think Andrew missing the Jake thing is probably townier, rather than scummier.
Thats the hammer
Dylan role?
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Team must be Robz/Andrew.
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Team must be Robz/Andrew.
It's not!
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Team must be Robz/Andrew.
I'd Rolecop Andrew or robz tonight.
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Team must be Robz/Andrew.
Because your reads are always correct?
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Team must be Robz/Andrew.
Also, we haven't even seen a flip yet. You know for sure Dylan is town?
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Team must be Robz/Andrew.
I'd Rolecop Andrew or robz tonight.
Gkrieg already knows this, but yes, he should do this. This is a good plan.
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Team must be Robz/Andrew.
Also, we haven't even seen a flip yet. You know for sure Dylan is town?
Don't know for sure, just know that POE means it is probably true if Dylan flips town
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Was that hammer? And no I'm a VT...
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Was that hammer? And no I'm a VT...
Town or scum VT?
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If that wasn't hammer, Vote: Andrew seems like the only alternative. PPE 1
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Was that hammer? And no I'm a VT...
Town or scum VT?
There's only 1 kind of VT
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thread locked
D2 Final Vote Count
JaketheBaseballGod22 (2): Dylan32, SpaceAnemone
Dylan32 (4): JaketheBaseballGod22, Joseph2302, AndrewisFTTW, Robz888
AndrewisFTTW (1): gkrieg13
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 2 ends Saturday, April 1st at 6pm forum time.
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okay, the last couple times you guys tried to rip someone's mask off scooby-doo style you ended up revealing grody face muscles, so, uh, that was really bad. try not to do that again.
..
okay, you guys found another person? did you at least, like, do some tests for latex or whatever? wh- dealine? what the hell were you guys doing this whole time? okay, well, if we have to, then let's get the ripotron 3000...
Dylan32 has been lynched! he was a lightly masqueraded eagloid, a mafia tracker!
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Night 2 Starts.
(https://wiki.mafiascum.net/images/1/1a/PhaseIcon(Night).png)
Please submit all night actions by Monday, April 3rd at 6pm forum time.
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okay so we have run something like 10,000 background checks on this guy also and, like, half of them have seemed super incriminating for some sort of suspicious activity or other but half of them have made it look like he's totally clean. i honestly have no idea. somebody said that he was medically certified but we have, uh, a boatload of files of background checks that just don't make any sense with that. i'm pretty sure that he has claimed to be, like, a babysitter or something
JaketheBaseballGod22 has been killed in the night! He was an oogron with 2 granola bars, a town 2-shot doctor.
Day 3 Starts.
(http://wiki.mafiascum.net/images/d/d6/PhaseIcon%28Day%29.png)
Vote Count 3.0
not voting (5): Joseph2302, Robz888, gkrieg13, SpaceAnemone, AndrewisFTTW
With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day 3 ends Monday, April 10th at 6pm forum time.
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thread unlocked
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Well I think we are in a pretty good situation actually.
Me being wrong about Dylan, but being the IC means that scum probably bussed, which I would guess they did late in the day.
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I plan on reading Space, Robz, and Andrew later. I may throw Joseph in for good measure, but I really doubt he is scum.
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Really sorry that my data cut out before I could help with the lynch! I have to say, Dylan was playing a really good scum game up to the point you guys started to suspect him.. I really thought he was towny.
I'm home in Oxford now, so no more data problems :-)
I'm willing to play the sheep-the-IC game, but I'll get to my own re-reads as soon as I have time. I feel like there's been far too little of Robz in this game to form any decent opinions (other than my early scum-read) or look at interactions, though, which is going to make PoE harder than usual.
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So I just reread Joseph and Robz, and there isn't a whole lot from either. Robz came off slightly scummier, but he is VLA, so unless more people think he would actually be a good lynch right now, unvote. I would vote for Joseph, but I am comfortable waiting for his promised post tonight to give him a chance, since it was mostly just a lack of content. Andrew's last post is slightly scummy. I don't know why town would be comfortable with a slow pace most of the time. Gkrieg's case on Jake makes sense too. Jake, post more.
This is exactly what I would expect Dylan to do with Robz as his partner.
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Oh, and in case anyone else has a panic and gets super-paranoid like I just did, I think we really can trust gkrieg to be 100% IC. We've had flips from a scum tracker and a town two-shot doctor, so we're firmly in setup 5 territory, and the only other thing in there is the rolecop, which he's claimed without counterclaim.
Interestingly, it looks like Dylan claimed his true tracker result for N1 in that claiming exercise, even though there's no game in which a rolecop overlaps with a town tracker, and Dylan already knew there had to be a rolecop in the game, with a 50% chance it was the person he'd tracked. (Jake's role could have appeared alongside a town tracker in 1/3 game setups, though). It looks like a risk that I'm glad we forced scum into taking, even if gkrieg didn't make more of it, and I still feel that Robz's refusal to play with that is scummy.
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Oh, and in case anyone else has a panic and gets super-paranoid like I just did, I think we really can trust gkrieg to be 100% IC. We've had flips from a scum tracker and a town two-shot doctor, so we're firmly in setup 5 territory, and the only other thing in there is the rolecop, which he's claimed without counterclaim.
Interestingly, it looks like Dylan claimed his true tracker result for N1 in that claiming exercise, even though there's no game in which a rolecop overlaps with a town tracker, and Dylan already knew there had to be a rolecop in the game, with a 50% chance it was the person he'd tracked. (Jake's role could have appeared alongside a town tracker in 1/3 game setups, though). It looks like a risk that I'm glad we forced scum into taking, even if gkrieg didn't make more of it, and I still feel that Robz's refusal to play with that is scummy.
You have to accept me as IC because if someone were to counterclaim me at this point, it would just be a lynch both and win scenario.
So everyone sheep me now!!! JK, I'll probably try to not show opinions as much today, and be asking the questions instead.
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I would like everyone to reread if possible and give their thoughts. I already have my top two suspects after doing a couple of rereads.
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Oh, and in case anyone else has a panic and gets super-paranoid like I just did, I think we really can trust gkrieg to be 100% IC. We've had flips from a scum tracker and a town two-shot doctor, so we're firmly in setup 5 territory, and the only other thing in there is the rolecop, which he's claimed without counterclaim.
Interestingly, it looks like Dylan claimed his true tracker result for N1 in that claiming exercise, even though there's no game in which a rolecop overlaps with a town tracker, and Dylan already knew there had to be a rolecop in the game, with a 50% chance it was the person he'd tracked. (Jake's role could have appeared alongside a town tracker in 1/3 game setups, though). It looks like a risk that I'm glad we forced scum into taking, even if gkrieg didn't make more of it, and I still feel that Robz's refusal to play with that is scummy.
Space, you're probably town I think, so you should come to your senses and stop pushing me. Really.
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Yes, gkrieg is obviously an IC, this doesn't even have to be questioned.
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And it's also good that gkrieg called Andrew/Dylan wrong, because we lynched DYlan without the IC. Which, I should put out, is something I called and pushed correctly.
Of course Andrew could still be scum...
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I plan on reading Space, Robz, and Andrew later. I may throw Joseph in for good measure, but I really doubt he is scum.
Why do you doubt Joseph is scum? He seems like a POE top contender to me.
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Well I think we are in a pretty good situation actually.
Me being wrong about Dylan, but being the IC means that scum probably bussed, which I would guess they did late in the day.
Word. What do you mean "being the IC means that scum probably bussed"? I agree I think scum would probably bus but I think it would also depend on the person. Like I think Robz would, and I would. I don't know about Space or Joseph though just by virtue of not having played with them much.
I plan on reading Space, Robz, and Andrew later. I may throw Joseph in for good measure, but I really doubt he is scum.
Why the doubt about Joseph?
Really sorry that my data cut out before I could help with the lynch! I have to say, Dylan was playing a really good scum game up to the point you guys started to suspect him.. I really thought he was towny.
I'm home in Oxford now, so no more data problems :-)
I'm willing to play the sheep-the-IC game, but I'll get to my own re-reads as soon as I have time. I feel like there's been far too little of Robz in this game to form any decent opinions (other than my early scum-read) or look at interactions, though, which is going to make PoE harder than usual.
I'll quote Axxle from about 2 years ago and say "the IC is not a god", or something to that effect. He's town, yes, but his reads aren't better or worse than anyone else's. We do know, however, that he has town's best intentions in mind.
So I just reread Joseph and Robz, and there isn't a whole lot from either. Robz came off slightly scummier, but he is VLA, so unless more people think he would actually be a good lynch right now, unvote. I would vote for Joseph, but I am comfortable waiting for his promised post tonight to give him a chance, since it was mostly just a lack of content. Andrew's last post is slightly scummy. I don't know why town would be comfortable with a slow pace most of the time. Gkrieg's case on Jake makes sense too. Jake, post more.
This is exactly what I would expect Dylan to do with Robz as his partner.
Are you referring specifically to his unvote? Because yeah I can see that. But the whole "I would vote for Joseph, but..." is just as bad in my opinion. This post just confuses me the more times I read it. Hopefully some of his other posts will be more revealing.
Rereading now.
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D1, Dylan votes Joseph to get some sort of reaction:
Vote: Joseph
PPE 1
Why?
Why are you not letting him react to it himself before you try to get a reason out of me?
A very weak excuse to place a vote on Joseph:
Is this your master scumhunting plan? Vote people with no substance and arbitrarily decide whether or not it's scummy?
Nope. It was to vote with little (or none in this case) disclosed substance to gauge reactions that can be recalled later when there is more evidence to combine it with, whichever way the evidence points.
And Joseph, I would have liked a bit more than just copying Jake there. Want to try again for me, please?
Jake, this is why you don't answer for other people immediately, because then you give them an easy way out of pressure, which makes sense if you are trying to diffuse potential pressure on a partner or you have a night result which ICs them, which you don't.
There's this post-hammer for what it's worth:
I believe my vote should be on Joseph in the most recent vote count.
History of the pps wagon.
- Starts with a Space rvs vote on pps, who then claims scum and self votes.
- It is basically ignored by everyone else for roughly 140ish posts of setup talk.
- Joseph quotes Space's request that more people vote pps and says in effect, "sure I can do that." (paraphrased)
- A bit later Robz joins the wagon with no explanation and without realizing it is L-1.
- Jake points out the L-1 and says he doesn't really want to hammer.
- LL would hammer but not this early in the day.
- There are a few posts that boil down to Andrew asking Jake why he didn't want to hammer, and Jake flips with the explanation that he dislikes D1 so he is now willing to hammer at 12:00 forum time.
- SA wants to wait for Robz to answer a question about whether or not he realized it was L-1, so Jake agrees to wait until Robz comments to hammer.
- Joseph wouldn't mind a hammer, but thinks it might be a tad early for it.
- pps unvotes
- Andrew calls the unvote scummy, does not vote.
- gkrieg says "Scum partner didn't save you?"
- Space: "Or he's trying to save his partner from talking about why he'd put him at L-1?"
- Jake thinks the unvote is scummy and votes. (L-1)
- LL and Joseph both declare intent to hammer, but wait, Joseph is already on wagon.
- Andrew asks if they are sure they want to hammer right now as the game has only been going on 2--actually 3--days.
- Not sure how to describe this:
You guys really want to hammer right this second? This game has been going for like 2 days.
we should just get D1 out of the way asap and if PPS wants to volunteer to end it then he can go ahead and do it.
- Robz did not realize it was L-1 and does support a hammer.
- Andrew votes Robz.
- Robz pushes for someone to hammer.
- Joseph votes and fakes out the mod.
- LL won't hammer until claim.
- Jake says he already claimed scum.
- PPS says that smart people wouldn't actually believe he was scum.
- I posted this.
Consistently supports wagon: Robz, Joseph.
Supports wagon but not this early or prior to some condition: LaLight
Against wagon but eventually strongly supports wagon: Jake.
Hedgy (leans against wagon): Andrew
Hedgy (leans towards wagon): Space
No real stance at all: gkrieg
Probably regrets decisions (a little bit at least): pps
If you disagree with your placement, say so; but this is how I would evaluate people based off how I read it.
So to the vets in this game, both on and off wagon, my question is this: how likely is pps to actually try a gambit like this as scum?
I guess what this big post does is essentially puts the blame for the pps lynch on Robz and Joseph, but he doesn't actually have any reads here so maybe it's not that valuable.
Dylan then ends D1 with a vote on Joseph.
Again votes Joseph for something weak:
Joseph said the same thing about Space saying the cop should claim in #291, and Space replied to that same thing the same way in #296. Plus, Space's original post that Joseph is referring to isn't even that hard to understand.
vote: Joseph
Dylan's "case" on Joseph. He cites the "scumslip" that gkrieg pointed out, a theory of his that scum is less likely to read the setup and that Joseph didn't carefully read the setup, and Joseph's vote on the pps wagon.
Did not realize the deadline was that close... 2 days in and we aren't even that close to the 20 page mark. gkrieg, as the only person not currently voting, what are you thinking and where would you consider putting your vote.
So hopefully my vote speaks for itself, but I actually feel pretty good about leaving it on Joseph. The combination of the possible scum slip that gkrieg called, the fact scum seems more likely to make setup assumptions without actually reading the setup at all despite all the early game setup discussion, and the fact that his post to get on PPS's wagon was:
Also, a few more people should vote PPS just in case he's bluffing about his conviction that PPS is scum this game.
Sure. Vote: PPS
Wagon
makes him my preferred lynch for today.
For a small (and therefore I think typically shorter game), we seem like we have made very substantially less progress than we should have by this point. Of course I guess the way D1 went down has turned this into essentially an extended version of D1 rather than a D2 with good information to use. The only good thing is that by process of elimination alone, I know there is at least 1 scum on wagon, and I feel like gkrieg and Space have been fairly towny, so between VLA Robz, Jake, and Joseph, the odds of hitting scum there feel pretty good to me. So if need be, I would put a vote anywhere on any of those three today. I would rather not lynch Robz--strictly because he has had a stated VLA--so I would be down for either Joseph or Jake. I haven't necessarily seen anything about Jake that seemed scummy except for being quieter like his recent scum games. However, if this is just his new play-style, I don't want to lynch him solely because he is playing (arguably) better. I do still disagree with several of his arguments, but they haven't looked like scum arguments. So whether you like my case (if you can call it that) or not, the addition of the POE is pretty solid.
Reads me as null and tried to OMGUS bait Jake for some reason:
@Space I didn't forget about Andrew. I hate that this is going to sound like I'm just mimicing gkrieg, but From my perspective, Andrew has been pretty null, so the odds of hitting scum by lynching him are roughly the same as the random chance of him drawing scum. If my town reads on you and gkrieg are correct, the odds of hitting scum in my list of 3 that I said are much higher than the random chance. So leaving Andrew out is more a numbers thing than a I-don't-think-he's-scum thing.
I'm curious if I were to vote for Jake just how much his confidence that I'm scum would increase. In fact, let's try it. Vote: Jake
He finally says something about SA, but just asks a question instead of providing a read:
Jake, why do you think SA has been scummy? I just reread trying to find your reasons, and one mention of it was that you disagreed with one of their posts about Robz and the other you just quoted a post and said this is scummy but didn't explain why you thought so.
Still not committing to anything about SA:
Right after it seems like he's distanced himself enough his scum buddy gkrieg hammer's PPS while SA is still on wagon
That is why I think he is scum
Disagreeing about a read isn't really enough to justify a scum read.
I think gkrieg would actually be less likely to agree with a partner on most things, so I would be more likely to assume at most one of gkrieg and Space are scum, in the case that I'm wrong about both being town.
If town doesn't think Space is the most likely person to be scum, I agree that carelessly being put and left at L-1 really early in D2 after the crappy D1 that we had is kind of bad play for town, so whether Space is scum or not, they had a point there. If you do think Space is the most likely person to be scum, then there wouldn't really be anything wrong with your play there.
Space has already discussed their positioning and stuff on the wagon, so go back and read it and see what you think.
More "by the way" FoS on Joseph:
I actually think I was the one to diffuse both the SA and the Joseph wagons IIRC.
I don't remember about SA, but you definitely were the one that stopped the Joseph wagon, which I still am not sure was a good thing.
A small argument with Joseph about Dylan's case on him:
I actually think I was the one to diffuse both the SA and the Joseph wagons IIRC.
I don't remember about SA, but you definitely were the one that stopped the Joseph wagon, which I still am not sure was a good thing.
So you want to mislynch me? Seems scummy.
No actual reasons given
First, you trying to act like I haven't given reasons for wanting to lynch you is scummy.
Second, if gkrieg had convinced me that you were actually town, I would not still support lynching you. However, he did not. He just made enough people seem to think you weren't the best lynch that I decided to consider other people since lynching you seemed unlikely to happen right now. Despite this, I still see you as scummy.
Saying he would vote for Robz, Jake, or Joseph but Robz isn't a good choice because "no one apparently wants to lynch Robz... because of his complete absence":
your entire scum read against me is based on opinions. If not then please say what it is based on because honestly I've asked everybody multiple times and no one can give me a response.
Literally every read in this game is based on opinions. Excluding PR gained info, literally everything everyone does in this game is based on opinions and interpretations of what has been said. My opinion is that you have seemed somewhat scummy. But personally, I am more motivated by the POE I laid out earlier that narrowed it down to Robz, Joseph, and you for today, because I think lynching one of the 3 of you is our best chance for hitting scum. And since no one apparently wants to lynch Robz--who just showed up--because of his complete absence, you or Joseph seem like the best bets to me.
PPE 1
Here are D2 Dylan reads:
Reads:
Scum - Joseph, Jake
null-slight scum/would lynch: Andrew, Robz
Town - gkrieg, Space
PPE 1
And that's it. Also, here is Joseph's vote on Dylan:
Vote: Dylan I guess trust the PR
PPE: 2
So I see where gkrieg is coming from thinking Joseph is town. Dylan pushed hard for his lynch both days and didn't talk about much else. However, come deadline Dylan posted that he would like to lynch Robz but nobody else wants to, so he wants to lynch Joseph. Except that he didn't push Joseph's lynch at all after that. Part of that is he quickly got a wagon on him and he said he wasn't going to be around, so I guess he never really had a chance to push Joseph's lynch. It still seems like he backpedaled a little bit though. Also, their arguments never got too intense and Dylan's case on Joseph was pretty weak in my opinion. This could mean:
a) He's lightly bussing his partner, not trying to go all out and actually get him lynched, but trying to make it look like it's SvT if one of them gets lynched.
or
b) He's legitimately trying to get Joseph mislynched but not wanting to draw too much attention to himself.
And then we have his "reads". He lists Joseph as scum. In this setup with only two scum, would one them put the other in the scum category like that? Would Dylan do that? I don't know the answer to the latter but I think if Joseph is scum this whole Dylan vs Joseph thing really pays off in dividends. Also it's worth noting that since scum knew there was a rolecop, it would be much more important to keep the goon alive and not the tracker, as a single rolecop investigation outs the tracker. Since Dylan was the tracker I don't think it's that much of a stretch that he would be trying to clear his partner for the rest of the game.
On the other side of the coin, Dylan listed SA as town, practically ignored them, and SA was the only one other than Gkrieg off wagon last night. I know SA had IRL stuff, but they were around at the very end of the night and did not put a vote down. This doesn't really say much in itself, but combined with Dylan "townreading" SA, there could be some WIFOM there. I'll do a SA reread tomorrow. In the meantime, I'm inclined to think Joseph is the goon.
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SA reread:
D1
SA half joking about scumreading anyone who suspects Jake for meta reasons:
11 pages into M88. I can't wait to see Jake in action in this game.
He's very young, and actively improving. I'm going to scumread anyone who goes out of the way to rile him up based on his early games. Set a good example rather than digging for old dirt :-)
A small back and forth with pps. pps puts forth the idea that SA could be scum trying to "nix my town vibe". Not exactly sure what he means by this.
In all seriousness, I think you voting yourself is a pretty null PPS-ish thing to do, so I'm not going to get my logic in a twist over it.
Maybe, because you are relatively new. Or maybe you're scum trying to nix my town vibe because the truth is that scum!PPS would never claim to be scum on D1.
I don't see town narrative for intentionally attenuating anther's attempts at generating a town signal. It's really all town can do at this stage of the game.
It's really all town can do at this stage of the game.
You mean other than scum-hunting, discussing how to make the setups work to our advantage, seeing how people react to each other's opinions and all that sort of stuff? I also don't see why anyone should interpret you voting for yourself as such a grand townie gesture in the first place.
You still haven't said what you think of the setup, incidentally!
Is somewhat skeptical about lynching pps at that moment, or maybe just asking questions to see what Jake says:
You guys really want to hammer right this second? This game has been going for like 2 days.
we should just get D1 out of the way asap and if PPS wants to volunteer to end it then he can go ahead and do it.
How much information do you think PPS's flip will give us now, compared to letting D1 run its course more completely and generating a bunch more interactions between players who may or may not then get flipped later?
How likely do you think it is that he'll flip scum if someone hammers now?
Says it's "attractive" for scum to be on wagon and that's why they're asking questions rather than pushing the wagon hard at that moment:
Why are people characterising me as not supporting the wagon and being hedgey? I know I've been asking questions of others on the wagon, but that's because I think it's probably attractive for scum to want to be on-wagon by now, and I want to probe people's motives.
Asks if we're doing Gkrieg's idea or not, but doesn't actually state an opinion one way or another:
RIP, PPS & LL :-(
Is the plan for everyone to claim rolecop results as gkreig had suggested? And if so, are there merits to extending it to the other possible role results too?
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Sorry I posted that by accident, I'm still in the middle of my SA reread.
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SA reread:
D1
SA half joking about scumreading anyone who suspects Jake for meta reasons:
11 pages into M88. I can't wait to see Jake in action in this game.
He's very young, and actively improving. I'm going to scumread anyone who goes out of the way to rile him up based on his early games. Set a good example rather than digging for old dirt :-)
A small back and forth with pps. pps puts forth the idea that SA could be scum trying to "nix my town vibe". Not exactly sure what he means by this.
In all seriousness, I think you voting yourself is a pretty null PPS-ish thing to do, so I'm not going to get my logic in a twist over it.
Maybe, because you are relatively new. Or maybe you're scum trying to nix my town vibe because the truth is that scum!PPS would never claim to be scum on D1.
I don't see town narrative for intentionally attenuating anther's attempts at generating a town signal. It's really all town can do at this stage of the game.
It's really all town can do at this stage of the game.
You mean other than scum-hunting, discussing how to make the setups work to our advantage, seeing how people react to each other's opinions and all that sort of stuff? I also don't see why anyone should interpret you voting for yourself as such a grand townie gesture in the first place.
You still haven't said what you think of the setup, incidentally!
Is somewhat skeptical about lynching pps at that moment, or maybe just asking questions to see what Jake says:
You guys really want to hammer right this second? This game has been going for like 2 days.
we should just get D1 out of the way asap and if PPS wants to volunteer to end it then he can go ahead and do it.
How much information do you think PPS's flip will give us now, compared to letting D1 run its course more completely and generating a bunch more interactions between players who may or may not then get flipped later?
How likely do you think it is that he'll flip scum if someone hammers now?
Says it's "attractive" for scum to be on wagon and that's why they're asking questions rather than pushing the wagon hard at that moment:
Why are people characterising me as not supporting the wagon and being hedgey? I know I've been asking questions of others on the wagon, but that's because I think it's probably attractive for scum to want to be on-wagon by now, and I want to probe people's motives.
D2
Asks if we're doing Gkrieg's idea or not, but doesn't actually state an opinion one way or another:
RIP, PPS & LL :-(
Is the plan for everyone to claim rolecop results as gkreig had suggested? And if so, are there merits to extending it to the other possible role results too?
Quibbles about why Joseph is or isn't scummy and then goes on to question Joseph's scumread as if that's a reason to find Joseph scummy.
In fact,
Vote: Joseph
for not paying attention to the setup discussion early D1. Scum knows the setup already, they have no interest in setup discussion.
I feel like Joseph is scummy more because he was so terribly fluffy all through D1, rather than just for ignoring the set-up discussion. I think the only serious thing he did at all was vote for PPS.
Well, he did say that I'm his second-top scumread after PPS, but even that fails to hold together: if he thought PPS and I were scum, why on earth would I be sitting on PPS's wagon right to the end? That would have been some really ultra-serious early-game bussing, if he really thought we could be a scum team.
Says it's "funny" how Joseph finds them scummy for seeing the pps wagon through and Robz was "hinting" that they were being hesitant about the wagon:
Because scum do do that.
Vote for their scum partner early, just stay on the wagon and hope to get some town cred for it.
Okay, it's funny because you're accusing me of being scummy for seeing the wagon through, and Robz has been hinting that he thinks I was too hesitant, though nobody is backing up exactly why that's the case. It's a bit of a no-win scenario. I mean, fair enough, it's a non-win because we lynched a VT, but honestly, I thought thought there was a good chance he was scum.
Finds Robz scummy for not participating the in "claims":
I feel like Robz is being really scummy for being so uncooperative and not acting according to the consensus of the town, which is clearly to go through with the claiming exercise. I'm not sure whether that's just frustration at the fact he's going against what most of us agreed, or just that he's being a bit rude about it by describing the plan as "silly", but it makes me feel very bad about him!
Since 5/7 of us had already posted results before he raised any objection to the plan, even though it was first proposed early in D1, I think he's at best unhelpfully disengaged from the game, and at worst he's scum trying to play us to get extra information without saying anything he might possibly be caught out in a lie with, since obviously this makes it really hard for scum to fake-claim later on.
A quick jab at Joseph:
Jake is in this game?
Yeah, and he's made more posts and been more involved in actual game-play than you have!
SA arguing with Dylan about how to "claim" results and Robz's assertion that it's a silly exercise. SA disagrees with Dylan about intentionally creating "interesting" results and disagrees with Robz about it being pointless.
In the interest of actually protecting PR identities, other people need to actually post results that are more than "vanilla" "saw nothing/no result" so in the event someone actually gets a non-vanilla/saw-nothing result, they aren't the only ones sticking out and basically revealing themselves. If everyone does the same thing except the actual PR, this is a self-defeating exercise. I know the plain results are the most likely outcomes, but we do need variety in our claims I would think.
If I were a rolecop, I would have targeted Joseph and gotten jailkeeper.
If I were a tracker, I would have targeted gkrieg and seen him target SA.
If I were a watcher, I would have targeted Robz and seen Jake target him.
Which is why this is a silly exercise and I'm not participating in it.
So I read my post to try to figure out what part of what I said could be used as a justification for not participating period rather than just going along with it, but I don't see it.
My take on it is that he's agreeing with you that it's risky to town if all the players don't actively play along, because we risk outing our PRs. This is true to a small degree, but I think the chance of preserving PR information and the fact that this makes brazen fake-claiming hard for scum to manufacture in the late game are both arguments in favour of going ahead with the exercise in general.
I've also thought of a new argument in favour of your point, actually. Scum has a slight incentive to try to kill off PRs with "interesting" results that don't incriminate them, because flipping those people could give them actual information about other non-scum players. I think it's worth mentioning because several of our possible game scenarios have a doctor present, and I'd like to know that they're potentially aware of this.
SA responds to why I found them scummy for their pps vote, saying they get scumread for being cautious, so they're being cautious about being cautious so as not to seem like they're being cautious:
Out of all of these I find SA's and Joseph's votes to be the scummiest. SA's vote was RVS and they never even commented on pps's "claim" besides joking about it as a reason to join his wagon. So SA pretty much voted randomly, encouraged more random votes, and then just went along with the wagon because hey, as long as they're town it's totally cool if they get lynched right?
What was actually on my mind during the long period in which I didn't unvote was that I get scum-read all the time for being cautious. Take a look at the opening of Stranger Things (RMM 40), where I got scum-read particularly for unvoting on an early-game PPS wagon!
I think PPS is a very strong scum player. He was my buddy in the first of my scum games, so he's kind of the uberscum to me. And while my RVS vote on him was random in the sense of me having no in-game info to base the vote on, my choice of person was based on the fact that I see him as dangerous. When it looked like he was WIFOMing at us in a way I found hard to read, and definitely not conf!towny, seeing the wagon through seemed like totally reasonable play from my point of view.
So in this instance, he flipped town, which is disappointing. I agree that it's even possible it was a wagon comprised mostly of town. However, I feel like Joseph's vote on it was pretty scummy, and I really don't feel good about Robz's play at all.
SA's case on Robz in which they say they find Robz scummy because he finds SA scummy and SA thinks his case isn't based on anything. Looks to me like OMGUS:
So here's a bit more on why I find Robz scummy. He's clearly not been reading the game very much, which is sort of fine, given that he's got a sort-of-VLA in force. But he's still pushing the idea that I'm scummy, based off of pretty much nothing at all, and that is not good.
Robz at #249:
So Space is simultaneously voting for PPS but also scared about PPS actually getting lynched. Scummy.
No context was given for his statement, but I think he's referring to my questioning of Jake here:
You guys really want to hammer right this second? This game has been going for like 2 days.
we should just get D1 out of the way asap and if PPS wants to volunteer to end it then he can go ahead and do it.
How much information do you think PPS's flip will give us now, compared to letting D1 run its course more completely and generating a bunch more interactions between players who may or may not then get flipped later?
-- is Robz misundertanding the purpose of the questions I'd set out for Jake? Jake was putting forward some clearly-questionable reasoning. Scum!Jake could think that asserting a wish to be out of D1 would be generally supported by town players who find game openings difficult (I'm one of them), but town players should agree that getting further information from player interactions was valuable, to give us some context in which to analyse the flip.
The only other post of mine I can see Robz having meant was this one:
I will hammer at 12:00 forum time. If anyone has any objections please state before then.
I'd usually prefer for more discussion but i dislike D1 so I will hammer.
I'd like to hear what answer Robz gives to the question you asked about whether he was aware it was L-1 already, so I'd prefer you didn't hammer before he responds. No need to let him off the hook too easily.
Again, it's an interaction between me and Jake where I'm just working to curb Jake's overenthusiasm for a premature end of D1 without letting us hear from all the people involved. In this case, Robz had come in and put PPS at an unannounced L-1, and it's far from scummy of me to want to make sure he's forced to explain himself!
Then there's me at #274, near the end of D1:
Why are people characterising me as not supporting the wagon and being hedgey? I know I've been asking questions of others on the wagon, but that's because I think it's probably attractive for scum to want to be on-wagon by now, and I want to probe people's motives.
I mean, the fact I was trying to ask questions to extract useful responses from players should be obvious for anyone reading my posts! However, I can absolutely see scum!Robz, who's used to me being more selfconsciously hedgey in other games, trying to use my previous play style to score quick points.
This was followed early D2 by Robz at #290, still scum-reading me, now for "naysaying":
I'm still not a huge fan of SA's naysaying. Vote: Space
I quoted my #274 post again at #297 because Robz totally ignored it. He's still ignoring it, or refusing to engage.
Vote: Robz
SA responding to my vote on them by saying Joseph didn't actually scumread LL later in D1 and so it wouldn't be surprising if he NKed LL.
Vote: LaLight
She's a bit scummy
This was before his pps vote obviously. Would Joseph NK LL after supposedly scumreading him?
Vote: SA
The post you're quoting is #155, which is early. Joseph later said at #254 (which is like twice as far into the game, given that the first game post was #53) that PPS and I were his top scumreads. I already explained my issue with how much logic-twisting Joseph must've had to do for that to make sense back at #301, but that's not relevant just here.
Anyway, combine that with the fact that LL had been townslipping to various degrees, and that several people had declared a town read on him (gkrieg@#131, Robz@#145), I think he's not that weird an NK even for a scum-team containing Joseph. After all, there are presumably two scums directing things in their QT, so the NK decision wouldn't be made by Josef in isolation anyway.
A kind of reads list from SA. Says Joseph isn't engaged, has questions for Robz when he comes back, and says Dylan is "making the most sense out of any of you lot". They also make a big deal (bold!) about me putting him to L-1 and leaving my vote there:
People, this game is sloooooow!
Let's take a look at the player list:
pingpongsam -- lynched. He has excuses for being quiet. Or for ranting at us all in the speccy.
Joseph2302 -- Is now missing long enough to be prodable, and was barely engaged earlier anyway.
JaketheBaseballGod22 -- Uncharacteristically quiet, which didn't actually imply good things in ZM23 (though I'd welcome it if this is a turn of events in which town!Jake is equally able to play maturely now).
Robz888 -- Appears to be genuinely VLA, but certainly has issues to account for when he's back.
Dylan32 -- Seems to be talking the most sense out of any of you lot.
gkrieg13 -- has promised some extra explaining later.
LaLight -- NKd. Several people did the "wow, weird kill" dance, but our vets were townreading him D1, so how weird is it really?
SpaceAnemone -- Spaaaaaaace :-)
AndrewisFTTW -- His posting history shows he's active elsewhere, but is choosing not to respond to me and to leave his unannounced L-1 vote on me.
Joseph and SA agree that there must be one scum on pps's wagon. Since Jake and Gkrieg are cleared that means it's down to one of them, I'm curious how they feel about this now.
So the mislynchers were Space, me, Robz, Jake & gkrieg
There's 2 scum in the game, I assume at least 1 of the scum is in that list
PPE: 5?
So you are just saying that you don't think the team is Andrew/Dylan.
Heh.. that's exactly what I was thinking. LL being off-wagon and town is possibly another reason he made a good night target, actually -- if we actually have two scums on-wagon, they'll need to be careful about allowing PoE on there.
SA gets defensive. Clearly they don't like being at L-1 and specifically targets me for putting them to L-1 and not unvoting:
ummmm just because your not "the biggest scum threat in this game right now" (not sure about this) doesn't mean your not scum.
I'm the person who's one vote away from being lynched right now, thanks specifically to Andrew. He can just about get away with putting me to an unannounced L-1 by claiming this is his careless laid-back game-play and he didn't realise. However leaving me there now that he's admitted he's fully aware that it's L-1, is not good play for town at all unless he actually thinks I'm really a threat. OTOH, if he's scum waiting for a derphammer, it makes much more sense.
Also, I think gkreig's point about your retort not coming from a very towny-seeming place is also accurate.
SA tries to discredit their wagon, saying it's "nonsense" and "unfounded":
Oh please, don't be so dramatic. Just because you're at L-1 doesn't guarantee you're going to be lynched although maybe you're regretting the way you guys stumbled into pps's lynch yesterday now, huh? Me leaving my vote on you is neither scummy nor anti-town and it's pretty revealing how defensive you are and how worried you are that you might be lynched.
Nope, this is me behaving how I think town should behave when there's a nonsense unfounded wagon on them: pointing out errors in bad reasoning coming from scummy people!
Announces VLA until after deadline. Finally puts a vote down on Joseph. Interesting that Dylan said the same thing about voting for Robz: that voting for him isn't useful because he's VLA.
I'm about to be VLA till after the deadline.
My vote on Robz isn't useful because he's still VLA himself. I'll vote: Joseph now. I hope to be on at least by phone from the place I'm going, but I'm really not sure how the data coverage will be...
SA using the "I'm an easy mislynch" defense:
If you were to say "this is usually how I react to wagons regardless of alignment" I would be more inclined to believe you, especially if someone backed you up.
Well, gkrieg could probably tell you about how I make for an easy mislynch target :- P
PPE several because my signal is already getting patchy and we're still not there yet...
SA puts FoS on me all of a sudden:
Where did Andrew go in all this Robz-or-Jake reasoning?
@Dylan and gkrieg, are you both towreading Andrew?
SA telling Gkrieg and Dylan that they would be down to lynch Jake or Robz, no mention of Joseph.
@Jake: I am not a he!!!
Also @Jake: my early case on Robz had a lot more to it than just not being happy about him refusing to involve himself in the claiming exercise. For instance, he kept accusing me of being against/hesitant on the PPS wagon (!), and ignored at least two requests by me to back up his position with examples -- and that was before he disappeared entirely from the game.
@Andrew: I did say several things about set-up earlier in the game, and nobody joined in a conversation. I can't throw setup ideas back and forth all by myself (well, not with much success or any rapid successions of new insights), though.
@gkrieg & @Dylan: if you two both feel like Jake and Robz are the lynch pool for today, I'm willing to vote either one, though I'd readout like to see Robz back in the game first!!
Joseph votes for Dylan and SA says Dylan is off the table because of it. They're still hesitant to vote Robz because of VLA so they switch to Jake:
Ha, no way am I supporting a Dylan lynch just now.
vote: Jake to see whether there's traction there, since I'm still hesitant to push Robz in absentia.
Though with this little engagement in a game that's shaping up to be pretty shots so far, I do think replacement is an option Robz and schadd could maybe consider...
SA says they were scumreading me because I put them to L-1 and then "left" them there, a.k.a. didn't unvote.
And everyone goes silent.
Do you want to put forward a case on Andrew maybe? When I was scum-reading him earlier, neither you nor Dylan seemed that interested, which worries me slightly.
He was null to me earlier, and now I'm trying to avoid just giving in to OMGUS. Do you remember where your case was? I'll go back and read it.
Going back is more sensible... no way can I quote a bunch of useful things in one post from my phone just now.
He was mostly scum-reading me for behaving in what I believed was a totally justified townie way and being super careless about leaving me at L-1.
How long now till deadline? Am about to be offline for a while unless it's really soon, if signal is even cooperating...
SA disappears for a while and then comes back after the Dylan wagon gets going. These are their last posts before Dylan was lynched:
Archive.. here for ~10 mins. I'm willing to follow the claimed PRs of they agree on a lynch.. is Dylan a go?
Anyone wanna counterclaim gkrieg?
I'm a VT so it checks out for me. Though vanilla is also the safest claim for someone who doesn't know things anyway, so that evidence is only weak.
I think my "archive" = "argh" correction may just have been eaten by my signal trouble :-(
Can someone tell me who is voting Dylan?
So basically SA pushes Joseph for a while, Robz for a minute, unvotes Dylan once their "scumread" Joseph votes for Dylan, and then briefly shows up near deadline and doesn't put down a vote on Dylan despite saying they're ok with it and despite Dylan only being at L-2 I think. They later said their data cut out and they were really only around for about 5 minutes, but they could've put down a vote instead of asking if Dylan is a go or asking who is voting for Dylan. So Dylan and SA "townread" eachother for the first two days and SA didn't put a vote on his wagon and is the only person alive besides Gkrieg to be off wagon. Would scum partners really townread eachother for the whole game and would SA not immediately bus their partner when he was in trouble? There's obviously a good deal of WIFOM but personally I think if they were partners one townread is fine, but the other person would have a null or even slightly scummy read on their partner, right? I mean it just doesn't seem to me like partners townreading eachother the whole game would ever be viable. I found SA scummy D1 and early D2 for their vote on pps and the content they posted but this is more solid I think.
I'll check out Robz too but there's probably not much to go on. I'll do it later today.
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I would like everyone to reread if possible and give their thoughts. I already have my top two suspects after doing a couple of rereads.
Sorry for being quiet today -- work is hectic, so I can dip in to read updates, but I don't have a chance to compile a proper re-read on anyone just yet. I'll post something more substantial tomorrow, but I have a number of things I want to put down before I head out for the evening now!
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Space, you're probably town I think, so you should come to your senses and stop pushing me. Really.
You know, your tone seems kind of designed to annoy. It's not healthy town play to let people off the hook entirely, and it's not like you've been at all townie most of the game, because you weren't here at all for most of it!
However, I'll grant that if you are town, and can persuade gkrieg of your towniness, then we're in a good position. You're the only one who has a good shot at PoE, since you could count on your own hypothetical innocence as well as gkrieg's IC-ness. For the rest of us, we can't work nearly as effectively, because your lack of participation in such a big chunk of the game gives us a really big hole in our reads.
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I plan on reading Space, Robz, and Andrew later. I may throw Joseph in for good measure, but I really doubt he is scum.
Why do you doubt Joseph is scum? He seems like a POE top contender to me.
I know this is directed at gkrieg, but he said he's not giving many opinions, and it will also end up justifying why I'll probably leave my Joseph read till last.
Anyway, firstly there's the fact that gkrieg has played in a lot of Joseph games before, and has a good feel for his meta. Secondly, Joseph has barely said anything that's actually useful, and seemed to be claiming quite late that he hadn't read the setup, and was actually making incorrect assumptions based on not understanding the general flow of the conversation, like thinking I was talking about asking the RC to claim, instead of about whether everyone should claim an RC result after N1 -- he made that same mistake twice, which feels more like really sloppy play whilst attempting to say stuff than deliberate attempts to frame me as behaving scummily.
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Space, you're probably town I think, so you should come to your senses and stop pushing me. Really.
You know, your tone seems kind of designed to annoy. It's not healthy town play to let people off the hook entirely, and it's not like you've been at all townie most of the game, because you weren't here at all for most of it!
However, I'll grant that if you are town, and can persuade gkrieg of your towniness, then we're in a good position. You're the only one who has a good shot at PoE, since you could count on your own hypothetical innocence as well as gkrieg's IC-ness. For the rest of us, we can't work nearly as effectively, because your lack of participation in such a big chunk of the game gives us a really big hole in our reads.
I was townie and around when it counted: lynching scum Dylan. You ended the day voting for the Doctor, if I remember correctly...
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I plan on reading Space, Robz, and Andrew later. I may throw Joseph in for good measure, but I really doubt he is scum.
Why do you doubt Joseph is scum? He seems like a POE top contender to me.
I know this is directed at gkrieg, but he said he's not giving many opinions, and it will also end up justifying why I'll probably leave my Joseph read till last.
Anyway, firstly there's the fact that gkrieg has played in a lot of Joseph games before, and has a good feel for his meta. Secondly, Joseph has barely said anything that's actually useful, and seemed to be claiming quite late that he hadn't read the setup, and was actually making incorrect assumptions based on not understanding the general flow of the conversation, like thinking I was talking about asking the RC to claim, instead of about whether everyone should claim an RC result after N1 -- he made that same mistake twice, which feels more like really sloppy play whilst attempting to say stuff than deliberate attempts to frame me as behaving scummily.
This is accurate. I plan to be asking the questions instead of answering them :)
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A couple of quick responses to Andrew's read -- mostly to correct errors rather than to refute specific points. I don't have much time just now!
Is somewhat skeptical about lynching pps at that moment, or maybe just asking questions to see what Jake says:
You guys really want to hammer right this second? This game has been going for like 2 days.
we should just get D1 out of the way asap and if PPS wants to volunteer to end it then he can go ahead and do it.
How much information do you think PPS's flip will give us now, compared to letting D1 run its course more completely and generating a bunch more interactions between players who may or may not then get flipped later?
How likely do you think it is that he'll flip scum if someone hammers now?
-- Yeah, on this one I was definitely asking questions to see whether I though Jake's behaviour was scum-driven. I actually explained as much when I was trying to point out how mistaken/deliberately twisted Robz's case on me was earlier.
Joseph and SA agree that there must be one scum on pps's wagon. Since Jake and Gkrieg are cleared that means it's down to one of them, I'm curious how they feel about this now.
So the mislynchers were Space, me, Robz, Jake & gkrieg
There's 2 scum in the game, I assume at least 1 of the scum is in that list
PPE: 5?
So you are just saying that you don't think the team is Andrew/Dylan.
Heh.. that's exactly what I was thinking. LL being off-wagon and town is possibly another reason he made a good night target, actually -- if we actually have two scums on-wagon, they'll need to be careful about allowing PoE on there.
-- you totally misunderstand me here. I was agreeing with gkrieg's interpretation of what Joseph was saying, i.e. that all his post boiled down to was that he didn't think it was an Andrew-Dylan scumteam. I wasn't making any assumption at all about the number of scums I thought were on or off the wagon.
SA disappears for a while and then comes back after the Dylan wagon gets going. These are their last posts before Dylan was lynched:
Archive.. here for ~10 mins. I'm willing to follow the claimed PRs of they agree on a lynch.. is Dylan a go?
Anyone wanna counterclaim gkrieg?
I'm a VT so it checks out for me. Though vanilla is also the safest claim for someone who doesn't know things anyway, so that evidence is only weak.
I think my "archive" = "argh" correction may just have been eaten by my signal trouble :-(
Can someone tell me who is voting Dylan?
I was outside a cinema waiting for the 22.30 screening, but then the queue moved inside more quickly than I'd expected, given that it was all running late. (This was part of a sci-fi weekender I was at in rural Wales with a bunch of friends). I didn't want to put a vote on a person I townread if there was a risk that I was jumping on a scum-driven wagon, so I wanted to know who was on it... but having only a small phone screen and a data connection that vanished without warning and only served me about 20% of the page requests I made (with a very long delay) made keeping up properly too difficult.
Argh.. typing takes longer than I think it does! Now I have 2 minutes to pack up and cycle across town! :-P
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I was townie and around when it counted: lynching scum Dylan. You ended the day voting for the Doctor, if I remember correctly...
One townie act in the game, that would be super-easy for a bussing scum player to perform for town-cred... you can see why I'm sceptical, right?
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I was townie and around when it counted: lynching scum Dylan. You ended the day voting for the Doctor, if I remember correctly...
One townie act in the game, that would be super-easy for a bussing scum player to perform for town-cred... you can see why I'm sceptical, right?
I think it should be fairly straightforward to deduce that I am likely town at this point.
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I was townie and around when it counted: lynching scum Dylan. You ended the day voting for the Doctor, if I remember correctly...
One townie act in the game, that would be super-easy for a bussing scum player to perform for town-cred... you can see why I'm sceptical, right?
I think it should be fairly straightforward to deduce that I am likely town at this point.
Why? What townie things have you done?
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I was townie and around when it counted: lynching scum Dylan. You ended the day voting for the Doctor, if I remember correctly...
One townie act in the game, that would be super-easy for a bussing scum player to perform for town-cred... you can see why I'm sceptical, right?
I think it should be fairly straightforward to deduce that I am likely town at this point.
Why? What townie things have you done?
Besides being a pivotal vote for Dylan instead of Andrew? I think you'll find my play here mirrors almost exactly my play from Mafia 96, which is now over, in which I was also a Vanilla Townie.
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I was townie and around when it counted: lynching scum Dylan. You ended the day voting for the Doctor, if I remember correctly...
One townie act in the game, that would be super-easy for a bussing scum player to perform for town-cred... you can see why I'm sceptical, right?
I think it should be fairly straightforward to deduce that I am likely town at this point.
Why? What townie things have you done?
Besides being a pivotal vote for Dylan instead of Andrew? I think you'll find my play here mirrors almost exactly my play from Mafia 96, which is now over, in which I was also a Vanilla Townie.
Voooootee:Robz
Trying the town cred too much
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Robz reread.
D1
Says the claiming results idea is not a good one:
Says LL's "scumsip" wasn't a scumslip:
Not a scumslip in my book. I default of the singular masculine pronoun in a variety of situations.
Also the Rolecop claiming sounds fun and exciting but is probably not a good idea. I just looked at the setups and and it doesn't seem to have much benefit in any of them.
Also, I don't understand setup 6. Town gets a Watcher and a Rolecop, but there's nothing for the Rolecop to rolecop except the Watcher? These seems like a real bad one for town.
Ranks the setups and gets voted for it by LL. I agree with LL about the weak contribution but I guess Robz felt like there was nothing else for him to say at this point in the game.
Setups, ranked best-for-town to best-for-scum
3. rolecop, 2-shot doctor, jailkeeper, 4 VTs ; roleblocker, roleblocker
4. 2-shot doctor, tracker, 5 VTs ; compulsive visitor, goon
5. 2-shot doctor, rolecop, 5 VTs ; tracker, goon
7. watcher, tracker, 5 VTs ; 1-shot ninja, goon
1. jailkeeper, dayvig, 5 VTs ; JOAT (1-shot strongman/roleblocker), goon
2. rolecop, jailkeeper, 5 VTs ; roleblocker, goon
6. rolecop, watcher, 5 VTs ; goon, goon
Vote: Robz888
I am serious
?
False contribution which is easy to make and is quite useful not only for town
Yeah, it's not a great contribution, but I felt like doing it anyway.
I did make a good contribution, though. I said your scumslip wasn't a scumslip.
Which was obvious. Not like I was at L-1 or something
Townreads LL:
Or are you trying to buddy me? *looks suspicious*
PPE
I do actually think you're not scum for once!
Votes pps for seemingly no reason, putting him to L-1 without announcing it:
Vote: PPS
Says he supports hammering and then provides reasons after the fact:
I did not realize it was L-1 when I voted for PPS.
I support hammering him.
What? But for how why though?
vote: Robz
He is, by his own admission, scum.
Also, this feels like a spontaneous wagon that scum would go "ugh, seriously?" over, rather than a wagon meticulously guided by scum.
I think here he is saying the longer D1 takes the more likely we are to lynch town instead of scum? I don't really get this.
You guys really want to hammer right this second? This game has been going for like 2 days.
we should just get D1 out of the way asap and if PPS wants to volunteer to end it then he can go ahead and do it.
How much information do you think PPS's flip will give us now, compared to letting D1 run its course more completely and generating a bunch more interactions between players who may or may not then get flipped later?
How likely do you think it is that he'll flip scum if someone hammers now?
I think it's more likely we lynch town if this day continues. The flip will be informational as is, sure.
Calls SA hedgy and scummy:
So Space is simultaneously voting for PPS but also scared about PPS actually getting lynched. Scummy.
Eggs on LL:
intent to hammer
Send us home, LL!
D2
Votes SA for supposedly "naysaying" against pps's wagon:
Will SA lynch SA?
Anyway, I'll catch up on this later today. I hammered because I thought there was a high likelihood of PPS actually being scum but I guess was wrong. LaLight seems like a strange kill.
I also thought there was a high likelihood. I think hammering in that situation is pretty townie, actually.
I'm still not a huge fan of SA's naysaying. Vote: Space
There's a long absence and then he reappears before deadline.
Suspects Gkrieg... kinda. Joseph is null. Jake is null. He doesn't want to lynch SA anymore. Wants to lynch me... but not really. Then he tries for Gkrieg.
Caught up! So, I actually think gkrieg is maybe scum, although I don't know if we could possibly get a wagon going on him in the next 2 hours.
Gkrieg has gotten almost no votes and very little suspicion, despite being extremely active and pursuing cases on others, and getting into disagreements. He's playing extremely savvy.
Do I think this strongly? Eh, I'm not sure. Honestly, those last pages were rough. I was changing my mind about Joseph and Jake from post to post. On one hand I do see the case against Jake, but then I also see a little bit of the old town Jake in there. With Joseph, I liked the scum slip argument, but on the other hand those almost ever hold water.
I don't want to lynch SA anymore, at all.
I would lynch Andrew, I guess. No real reason. Who's here? We have two hours, right?
almost never* hold water
Vote: Gkrieg
Still unsure about his vote:
Caught up! So, I actually think gkrieg is maybe scum, although I don't know if we could possibly get a wagon going on him in the next 2 hours.
Gkrieg has gotten almost no votes and very little suspicion, despite being extremely active and pursuing cases on others, and getting into disagreements. He's playing extremely savvy.
Do I think this strongly? Eh, I'm not sure. Honestly, those last pages were rough. I was changing my mind about Joseph and Jake from post to post. On one hand I do see the case against Jake, but then I also see a little bit of the old town Jake in there. With Joseph, I liked the scum slip argument, but on the other hand those almost ever hold water.
I don't want to lynch SA anymore, at all.
I would lynch Andrew, I guess. No real reason. Who's here? We have two hours, right?
Is that really it? I'm active and being town read by a lot of people? I would also argue that I have gotten plenty of suspicion. Certainly not "very little" as you state.
Very little relative to everyone else. Almost no one has voted for you. Just Jake on Day 1, and then Jake on Day 2 after you started pushing him.
Am I wrong? very possibly! I don't know what else to tell you. I can't commit to strong opinions at this point, since nothing that's happened so far would justify them.
Strongly townreads SA:
I'm voting for gkrieg in part to move my vote from SA, who doesn't read like scum to me anymore. But I would attach myself to a more serious wagon, if I knew how the votes stand. I guess I can go do a count myself...
Gkrieg pushes back again and Robz moves his vote to me, says he would also vote Dylan, and realizes he's suspecting and sheeping Gkrieg at the same time:
Caught up! So, I actually think gkrieg is maybe scum, although I don't know if we could possibly get a wagon going on him in the next 2 hours.
Gkrieg has gotten almost no votes and very little suspicion, despite being extremely active and pursuing cases on others, and getting into disagreements. He's playing extremely savvy.
Do I think this strongly? Eh, I'm not sure. Honestly, those last pages were rough. I was changing my mind about Joseph and Jake from post to post. On one hand I do see the case against Jake, but then I also see a little bit of the old town Jake in there. With Joseph, I liked the scum slip argument, but on the other hand those almost ever hold water.
I don't want to lynch SA anymore, at all.
I would lynch Andrew, I guess. No real reason. Who's here? We have two hours, right?
Is that really it? I'm active and being town read by a lot of people? I would also argue that I have gotten plenty of suspicion. Certainly not "very little" as you state.
Very little relative to everyone else. Almost no one has voted for you. Just Jake on Day 1, and then Jake on Day 2 after you started pushing him.
Am I wrong? very possibly! I don't know what else to tell you. I can't commit to strong opinions at this point, since nothing that's happened so far would justify them.
Once again, how am I scum from that?
I don't know, because scum are better at avoiding engaging in suspicious behavior than town. Though this holds less water for you.
I mean, you're right, my case is thin. I'll move to an even thinner case, then:
Vote: Andrew
Would also lynch Dylan for similarly thin reasons.
Gah, I'm simultaneously suspecting and sheeping gkrieg.
Isn't picky at all about who we should lynch:
Honestly we just need a lynch.
Almost hammers Jake:
Intent to hammer Jake
Switches to Dylan after Jake pretty much claims:
Vote: Dylan
Prefers Dylan or me, doesn't say why:
I'm fine with Dylan or Andrew. It's close but I probably narrowly prefer Dylan.
Votes me, sheeping Gkrieg again:
So can we lynch Andrew yet?
Certainly. Vote: Andrew
And then finally hammers Dylan:
Vote: Dylan
Thinking about it a bit longer, I think Andrew missing the Jake thing is probably townier, rather than scummier.
So he townreads LL D1, is all in for the pps lynch and scum reads SA for supposedly "naysaying" the wagon. To me it looks like SA was just asking Jake a couple question and was curious as to what he would say, and not so much that they were against the wagon. Robz votes for SA at the beginning of D2 but is pretty much absent for the rest of the day. He comes back before deadline saying he completely changed his mind about SA, votes Gkrieg, then votes for me, then Jake, then Dylan, then me, then finally hammers Dylan.
This could be taken a couple of ways:
If he's scum, he would've been testing the waters on a mislynch of Gkrieg and me. Gkrieg and me didn't work out, so he was about to hammer Jake until he claimed. He then votes his partner but switches back to me even after he says he narrowly prefers Dylan. So I guess he would be doing this so he could say he was one of the original people to push Dylan's lynch in case he gets lynched (which he did say today already), but he still wants to try someone else, hence the sheeping of Gkrieg and the vote on me. He only hammers Dylan when it's clear nobody else is getting lynched.
Town!Robz doesn't have any solid reads by deadline. He has changed his mind about SA, had a slight scum read on Gkrieg but no real case on him, and so it doesn't really matter to him who is lynched. He votes for Gkrieg but sees there's no support for a Gkrieg lynch, so he tries a wagon on me since Gkrieg is pushing it, etc. etc.
I think Robz is capable of either of these scenarios, but I think the town one makes a little more sense, especially since he wasn't around for most of the day and thus it would've been harder to create reads. And scum!Robz would still have to back up his reads with something. Scum doesn't just randomly pick a member of town and completely fabricate a case, there's usually some truth as to whether they think something is scummy or not and they go off of that. Instead, Robz just laid it out on the table and said he didn't really have any solid reads and the couple reads he did have weren't based on much. I believe him. I also think the way he acted towards Dylan at the end of yesterday doesn't really make sense if they were partners. I think he would either have a solid townread on him or a solid scumread. He would either be completely against the lynch or all for it. Instead he's kind of all over the place. So I don't see the scum narrative for it.
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I'll try and make some contributions/rereads this evening
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I think Robz is capable of either of these scenarios, but I think the town one makes a little more sense, especially since he wasn't around for most of the day and thus it would've been harder to create reads. And scum!Robz would still have to back up his reads with something. Scum doesn't just randomly pick a member of town and completely fabricate a case, there's usually some truth as to whether they think something is scummy or not and they go off of that. Instead, Robz just laid it out on the table and said he didn't really have any solid reads and the couple reads he did have weren't based on much. I believe him. I also think the way he acted towards Dylan at the end of yesterday doesn't really make sense if they were partners. I think he would either have a solid townread on him or a solid scumread. He would either be completely against the lynch or all for it. Instead he's kind of all over the place. So I don't see the scum narrative for it.
Last game, schadd read me really well and was town, though I didn't believe him. So in the spirit of making up for that, I'm going to town read Andrew for reading me well here.
Vote: Joseph
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Vote Count 3.1
Robz888 (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (1): Robz888
not voting (3): gkrieg13, SpaceAnemone, AndrewisFTTW
With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day 3 ends Monday, April 10th at 6pm forum time.
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Last game, schadd read me really well and was town, though I didn't believe him. So in the spirit of making up for that, I'm going to town read Andrew for reading me well here.
Vote: Joseph
If gkrieg's quite sure it's not Joseph, and decides to vote Andrew, would you sheep the IC?
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Last game, schadd read me really well and was town, though I didn't believe him. So in the spirit of making up for that, I'm going to town read Andrew for reading me well here.
Vote: Joseph
If gkrieg's quite sure it's not Joseph, and decides to vote Andrew, would you sheep the IC?
Uh, I don't know. Maybe?
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Last game, schadd read me really well and was town, though I didn't believe him. So in the spirit of making up for that, I'm going to town read Andrew for reading me well here.
Vote: Joseph
If gkrieg's quite sure it's not Joseph, and decides to vote Andrew, would you sheep the IC?
Scum read: increasing.
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Last game, schadd read me really well and was town, though I didn't believe him. So in the spirit of making up for that, I'm going to town read Andrew for reading me well here.
Vote: Joseph
If gkrieg's quite sure it's not Joseph, and decides to vote Andrew, would you sheep the IC?
Scum read: increasing.
On me or Robz? I assume it's on me, but I think my question is valid, since gkrieg has played more games with Joseph than the rest of us, so I'd trust his read quite highly, and so my question is a good gauge both for how confident Robz is that you're town, and of how confident we should be that he'll play along with the IC, meaning that if he tries to swing things towards another lynch later (one that might better suit a scum agenda, for instance), he can't do so without looking at least a bit more scummy if he's forced to have said he'll go along with gkrieg. The latter was my main reason for framing the question, really.
Oh, and if the thing you seem to dislike is that I'm posting little bits and piecs but not a re-read, that's just that I can't do a re-read from work because I'm switching back and forth between laptop and research server too much, but I should have a good hour or two of peace and quiet for reading later, assuming our call for arranging the f.ds Germany meet-up doesn't end up taking too long tonight!
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I really don't think Space is scum, by the way. Which means the only options are Andrew or Joseph.
I'll actually lynch either one of them, I guess, as long as we commit to lynching both of them in some order. We have enough days left to do that.
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Last game, schadd read me really well and was town, though I didn't believe him. So in the spirit of making up for that, I'm going to town read Andrew for reading me well here.
Vote: Joseph
If gkrieg's quite sure it's not Joseph, and decides to vote Andrew, would you sheep the IC?
Scum read: increasing.
On me or Robz? I assume it's on me, but I think my question is valid, since gkrieg has played more games with Joseph than the rest of us, so I'd trust his read quite highly, and so my question is a good gauge both for how confident Robz is that you're town, and of how confident we should be that he'll play along with the IC, meaning that if he tries to swing things towards another lynch later (one that might better suit a scum agenda, for instance), he can't do so without looking at least a bit more scummy if he's forced to have said he'll go along with gkrieg. The latter was my main reason for framing the question, really.
Oh, and if the thing you seem to dislike is that I'm posting little bits and piecs but not a re-read, that's just that I can't do a re-read from work because I'm switching back and forth between laptop and research server too much, but I should have a good hour or two of peace and quiet for reading later, assuming our call for arranging the f.ds Germany meet-up doesn't end up taking too long tonight!
I just don't think buddying the IC is a good substitute for reads and arguments, that's all. Oh and it's scummy.
I really don't think Space is scum, by the way. Which means the only options are Andrew or Joseph.
I'll actually lynch either one of them, I guess, as long as we commit to lynching both of them in some order. We have enough days left to do that.
That's not really what you implied earlier when you pointed out he was conveniently off wagon. Anyway, I'd like to lynch Joseph first, then SA. I'm pretty confident you're town.
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I don't care what I implied.
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I don't care what I implied.
Ok well I'm just trying to understand why you would cast suspicion on your townread.
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I don't care what I implied.
Ok well I'm just trying to understand why you would cast suspicion on your townread.
Fair.
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Vote Count 3.0
not voting (5): Joseph2302, Robz888, gkrieg13, SpaceAnemone, AndrewisFTTW
With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day 3 ends Monday, April 10th at 6pm forum time.
So my reads at the moment are:
ICs: Joseph, gkrieg
Leaning town: Space
Scum is probably one of: Robz, Andrew
I will post some more substantial, meaningful content at some point.
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It looks like we are ending up with 2 universal town reads which is good.
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It looks like we are ending up with 2 universal town reads which is good.
HUH? I think Joseph is the scum, I think someone else does too, maybe Robz? And no Joseph, you are most definitely not an IC.
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It looks like we are ending up with 2 universal town reads which is good.
HUH? I think Joseph is the scum, I think someone else does too, maybe Robz? And no Joseph, you are most definitely not an IC.
I meant Space
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It looks like we are ending up with 2 universal town reads which is good.
HUH? I think Joseph is the scum, I think someone else does too, maybe Robz? And no Joseph, you are most definitely not an IC.
I meant Space
Oh, for some reason I thought you were responding directly to Joseph though that doesn't make much sense. Nevermind!
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Right, so the first thing I did was to look at Dylan's play, and patterns of voting behaviour around him and the three unknowns (Andrew, Joseph, Robz).
In D1, Dylan voted Joseph at #189, and then didn't move his vote for the rest of the day. If he didn't take the opportunity to move onto the PPS wagon, I think it probably means that his partner was already on the wagon, since PPS sat at L-1 from #209 up to #279 (with a four-post break after PPS himself unvoted and before Jake joined)... if neither scum was on the wagon at that point, I think there's a strong chance one of them would have hammered. That kind of gives town points to Andrew, since Joseph and Robz were on the PPS wagon.
In D2, Robz voted for me right out of the box, and Andrew left me at L-1 from #321. I stayed there till Jake moved his vote at #379, and Dylan didn't hammer in that time. Now, Dylan, gkrieg and I had established a sort of mutual townread by then, so him hammering me might have been a bit too tricky to justify. I also think it's weak evidence for the other scum maybe also being on my tail at that point: that's either Robz or Andrew, so this time the possible-townpoints go to Joseph (who also didn't hammer me, which is also positive).
Dylan joined a Joseph wagon at #386, and I took Joseph to L-1 at #393. He didn't stop being on L-1 till gkrieg unvoted at #413, so I think that's also possibly a non-partner point for Joseph. The way Dylan moved to Jake at #439 also feels in hindsight very much like a scum looking for another mislynch opportunity now that the town wagon they're on is crumbling.
At #550, it's interesting, because Joseph puts Jake to L-1 on the wagon that Dylan started, and Jake doesn't get hammered by the other scum, so that's a bit of a scum-point for Joseph. OTOH, Robz does post intent in there at #553.
There's a lot going on after that, which is a deadline thing in general, but also a common thing Robz does to confuse town when he's scum. He's more noncommittal about the whole Andrew vs Dylan thing than he implies after the fact, really, because while he seems to say he's more open to lynching Dylan than lynching Andrew, his actions are kind of delay tactics, because he doesn't just pick Dylan and run with it, he comes in late and hammers.
Okay, so that ended up a bit more general than a pure Dylan voting re-read, but I feel pretty confident that my scumminess ordering goes Robz > Andrew > Joseph at this point.
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Right, so the first thing I did was to look at Dylan's play, and patterns of voting behaviour around him and the three unknowns (Andrew, Joseph, Robz).
In D1, Dylan voted Joseph at #189, and then didn't move his vote for the rest of the day. If he didn't take the opportunity to move onto the PPS wagon, I think it probably means that his partner was already on the wagon, since PPS sat at L-1 from #209 up to #279 (with a four-post break after PPS himself unvoted and before Jake joined)... if neither scum was on the wagon at that point, I think there's a strong chance one of them would have hammered. That kind of gives town points to Andrew, since Joseph and Robz were on the PPS wagon.
In D2, Robz voted for me right out of the box, and Andrew left me at L-1 from #321. I stayed there till Jake moved his vote at #379, and Dylan didn't hammer in that time. Now, Dylan, gkrieg and I had established a sort of mutual townread by then, so him hammering me might have been a bit too tricky to justify. I also think it's weak evidence for the other scum maybe also being on my tail at that point: that's either Robz or Andrew, so this time the possible-townpoints go to Joseph (who also didn't hammer me, which is also positive).
Dylan joined a Joseph wagon at #386, and I took Joseph to L-1 at #393. He didn't stop being on L-1 till gkrieg unvoted at #413, so I think that's also possibly a non-partner point for Joseph. The way Dylan moved to Jake at #439 also feels in hindsight very much like a scum looking for another mislynch opportunity now that the town wagon they're on is crumbling.
At #550, it's interesting, because Joseph puts Jake to L-1 on the wagon that Dylan started, and Jake doesn't get hammered by the other scum, so that's a bit of a scum-point for Joseph. OTOH, Robz does post intent in there at #553.
There's a lot going on after that, which is a deadline thing in general, but also a common thing Robz does to confuse town when he's scum. He's more noncommittal about the whole Andrew vs Dylan thing than he implies after the fact, really, because while he seems to say he's more open to lynching Dylan than lynching Andrew, his actions are kind of delay tactics, because he doesn't just pick Dylan and run with it, he comes in late and hammers.
Okay, so that ended up a bit more general than a pure Dylan voting re-read, but I feel pretty confident that my scumminess ordering goes Robz > Andrew > Joseph at this point.
I completely disagree. What you're essentially saying here is:
1) Andrew didn't hammer pps, which is towny
2) Andrew left me at L-1, which is scummy
3) Joseph had a town read on me, and didn't hammer, which is towny
4) Joseph was at L-1 for a while with Dylan on the wagon, which is towny (ok I can see this, but Dylan unvoting would probably have been a bad look)
5) Joseph put Jake at L-1, which is scummy
5) Robz stated intent to hammer Jake, which is scummy
6) Robz hammers Dylan, which is scummy
Putting someone to L-1 and hammering are not in and of themselves scummy. It's the way it's done, the case put forward or lack thereof, and the analysis in hindsight that makes them scummy or not. In this case a big part of that would be the narrative with scum!Dylan. Did you read my summaries on Joseph and Robz? If so, what do you think of my conclusions?
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Apparently I don't like the number 7.
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I completely disagree. What you're essentially saying here is:
1) Andrew didn't hammer pps, which is towny
2) Andrew left me at L-1, which is scummy
3) Joseph had a town read on me, and didn't hammer, which is towny
4) Joseph was at L-1 for a while with Dylan on the wagon, which is towny (ok I can see this, but Dylan unvoting would probably have been a bad look)
5) Joseph put Jake at L-1, which is scummy
5) Robz stated intent to hammer Jake, which is scummy
6) Robz hammers Dylan, which is scummy
Putting someone to L-1 and hammering are not in and of themselves scummy. It's the way it's done, the case put forward or lack thereof, and the analysis in hindsight that makes them scummy or not. In this case a big part of that would be the narrative with scum!Dylan.
Yeah, I think we just disagree on stuff :-) I think it was PPS who pointed out (a while ago now, but it's stuck with me!) that who you vote for and who you argue for don't have to be totally the same thing, and at the end of the day it's the votes that make stuff happen, so I think it's actually really telling to look at the votes. That should apply especially to games with people like Robz, who's famed for "robfuscation" as scum -- he's very talented at stupefying people with arguments and getting his way.
Did you read my summaries on Joseph and Robz? If so, what do you think of my conclusions?
Your conclusion in the Robz case was a very narrowly-run thing where I didn't feel like your argument for picking the town narrative over the scum narrative was all that strong. I liked the fact that you outlined both, though. I don't really see a Joseph re-read from you: there's a post that mentions both Dylan and Joseph, but ends up talking about Dylan's motives for things rather than Joseph's, then slides over to talking about me.. you certainly didn't treat Joseph to the same town/scum narrative thing as Robz. And really, Joseph's play is the thing I have a harder time understanding in this game, since a lot of the time he seems not to be fully paying attention, which is one possible explanation for why his play hasn't seemed more pro-town.
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At #550, it's interesting, because Joseph puts Jake to L-1 on the wagon that Dylan started, and Jake doesn't get hammered by the other scum, so that's a bit of a scum-point for Joseph.
It's more than a bit of a scum-point, no?
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I keep trying to find the remaining team of 2. For some reason it is hard to see that only one of you is scum. It looks like there are two possible teams honestly.
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At #550, it's interesting, because Joseph puts Jake to L-1 on the wagon that Dylan started, and Jake doesn't get hammered by the other scum, so that's a bit of a scum-point for Joseph.
It's more than a bit of a scum-point, no?
Not a lot more than a bit, with the amount that was going on around that time. Andrew could have hammered, but to a possible scum!Andrew, you probably looked like a higher-value target to scumread once you were actually doing things that could be legitimately read, and he clearly missed Jake's softclaim, which was the very next post after you'd stated your intent to hammer Jake.
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I will say that Space keeps pushing for me, which I think is an odd thing for scum!Space to do, since scum!Space doesn't actually need to lynch me to win, and lynching me is hard. Which suggests to me that Space's views are genuine, though wrong. This is ultimately comforting since we get two chances at this and I'm more than happy to do Joseph and then Andrew if Joseph fails.
But Joseph isn't say much, by the way. Resigned scum?
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Sorry getting to this tomorrow.
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So for me, I think it is likely that one of Andrew/Robz is the remaining scum. I think Space is pretty solidly town at this point. Their analysis of voting wagons was really good, and I think they have just played a townie game honestly.
Joseph just doesn't seem like scum to me. I keep thinking back to duel mafia, where he was completely different from here, which allowed him to get to the end, and he would've won it, had it not been for a scumslip.
I'm definitely leaning Andrew over Robz. I haven't looked too much into partner interactions with Dylan from Andrew, but I think he is scummy, and was scummy yesterday. His Dylan vote was pretty weak, because he was the alternative wagon, so he can't get much credit for it.
Robz is just a backup. I also think he is probably town, but I would put him as scum before Joseph.
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So for me, I think it is likely that one of Andrew/Robz is the remaining scum. I think Space is pretty solidly town at this point. Their analysis of voting wagons was really good, and I think they have just played a townie game honestly.
Joseph just doesn't seem like scum to me. I keep thinking back to duel mafia, where he was completely different from here, which allowed him to get to the end, and he would've won it, had it not been for a scumslip.
I'm definitely leaning Andrew over Robz. I haven't looked too much into partner interactions with Dylan from Andrew, but I think he is scummy, and was scummy yesterday. His Dylan vote was pretty weak, because he was the alternative wagon, so he can't get much credit for it.
Robz is just a backup. I also think he is probably town, but I would put him as scum before Joseph.
Space is town because of these reasons. Cool.
Joseph is town because of these reasons. Cool.
Andrew is scum because he was scummy... What?
It's been pretty frustrating for a while just being called scum with nothing to back it up. You're definitely leaning me over Robz even though you haven't looked at interactions at all. Look at the interactions, come up with a scum narrative, see if it holds any water, and THEN come back to me.
You say Joseph is town because his play is different from a scum game of his. Come on man, we all know that really doesn't mean anything and is super weak. But while you're comparing Joseph's games why not compare mine and tell me what you think?
You're the IC. Help us out here by doing some work.
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At #550, it's interesting, because Joseph puts Jake to L-1 on the wagon that Dylan started, and Jake doesn't get hammered by the other scum, so that's a bit of a scum-point for Joseph.
It's more than a bit of a scum-point, no?
Not a lot more than a bit, with the amount that was going on around that time. Andrew could have hammered, but to a possible scum!Andrew, you probably looked like a higher-value target to scumread once you were actually doing things that could be legitimately read, and he clearly missed Jake's softclaim, which was the very next post after you'd stated your intent to hammer Jake.
So you think scum!Me would go after Robz? Then why do I have a townread on Robz?
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And how is my Dylan vote any "weaker" than anyone else's? It seemed like it was me or him and lynching me would've been bad for town. We completely stumbled into it but we're lucky we ended up lynching scum.
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So for me, I think it is likely that one of Andrew/Robz is the remaining scum. I think Space is pretty solidly town at this point. Their analysis of voting wagons was really good, and I think they have just played a townie game honestly.
Joseph just doesn't seem like scum to me. I keep thinking back to duel mafia, where he was completely different from here, which allowed him to get to the end, and he would've won it, had it not been for a scumslip.
I'm definitely leaning Andrew over Robz. I haven't looked too much into partner interactions with Dylan from Andrew, but I think he is scummy, and was scummy yesterday. His Dylan vote was pretty weak, because he was the alternative wagon, so he can't get much credit for it.
Robz is just a backup. I also think he is probably town, but I would put him as scum before Joseph.
Space is town because of these reasons. Cool.
Joseph is town because of these reasons. Cool.
Andrew is scum because he was scummy... What?
It's been pretty frustrating for a while just being called scum with nothing to back it up. You're definitely leaning me over Robz even though you haven't looked at interactions at all. Look at the interactions, come up with a scum narrative, see if it holds any water, and THEN come back to me.
You say Joseph is town because his play is different from a scum game of his. Come on man, we all know that really doesn't mean anything and is super weak. But while you're comparing Joseph's games why not compare mine and tell me what you think?
You're the IC. Help us out here by doing some work.
I've looked a lot of the important interactions. Like the Dylan wagon. And I've also looked at Dylan's posts just not your side of the interactions.
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So for me, I think it is likely that one of Andrew/Robz is the remaining scum. I think Space is pretty solidly town at this point. Their analysis of voting wagons was really good, and I think they have just played a townie game honestly.
Joseph just doesn't seem like scum to me. I keep thinking back to duel mafia, where he was completely different from here, which allowed him to get to the end, and he would've won it, had it not been for a scumslip.
I'm definitely leaning Andrew over Robz. I haven't looked too much into partner interactions with Dylan from Andrew, but I think he is scummy, and was scummy yesterday. His Dylan vote was pretty weak, because he was the alternative wagon, so he can't get much credit for it.
Robz is just a backup. I also think he is probably town, but I would put him as scum before Joseph.
Space is town because of these reasons. Cool.
Joseph is town because of these reasons. Cool.
Andrew is scum because he was scummy... What?
It's been pretty frustrating for a while just being called scum with nothing to back it up. You're definitely leaning me over Robz even though you haven't looked at interactions at all. Look at the interactions, come up with a scum narrative, see if it holds any water, and THEN come back to me.
You say Joseph is town because his play is different from a scum game of his. Come on man, we all know that really doesn't mean anything and is super weak. But while you're comparing Joseph's games why not compare mine and tell me what you think?
You're the IC. Help us out here by doing some work.
I've looked a lot of the important interactions. Like the Dylan wagon. And I've also looked at Dylan's posts just not your side of the interactions.
Ok great. So why am I scum? What did you gather from those important interactions that made me scum? And the Dylan wagon?
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I will say that Space keeps pushing for me, which I think is an odd thing for scum!Space to do, since scum!Space doesn't actually need to lynch me to win, and lynching me is hard. Which suggests to me that Space's views are genuine, though wrong. This is ultimately comforting since we get two chances at this and I'm more than happy to do Joseph and then Andrew if Joseph fails.
But Joseph isn't say much, by the way. Resigned scum?
Not resigned scum.
Busy town player
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Vote Count 3.2
Robz888 (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (1): Robz888
not voting (3): gkrieg13, SpaceAnemone, AndrewisFTTW
With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day 3 ends Monday, April 10th at 6pm forum time.
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Okay, so this is going to be 10-min exercise in picking out things that make me uncomfortable about Andrew's play, since he's complaining there's no scum narrative for what he's done.
1) Ho opens with a load of nonsense stuff, like voting a non-existent player and voting his one stated townread. That kind of play is really just designed to signal that he's a player we might not get straight answers from, and to me it's a bad first impression.
2) There's also the "I'll be here making stupid comments in the meantime." thing at #83. Weirdly, he seemed to be talking some sense in between. Oh, and then #90: "And NOW I will resume the stupid comments." He's definitely working to establish himself as the type of person who won't let people take things too seriously, and as someone who prefers to take things seriously, he's really ringing my warning bells. None of this is directly scummy. Maybe it just explains some omgus on my part. I did deliberately say I'm looking for things that make me uncomfortable (rather than things that are definitely scum-indicative).
3) #127 -- talks about reading M88, which was covert affairs, and seems to be trying to bait Jake slightly. This is not pro-town.
4) He's making a few slight pushes at Jake. #219 is another one.
5) #252: backs Robz's entirely wrong interpretation of why I was trying to question Jake.
6) #294: still legitimizing Robz's lies about me!
7) #321: Makes up a whole narrative about why I was voting for PPS, which is utterly wrong. This was no case of "here's a scum narrative and here's a town narrative", it was a pure "SA did this set of things and look isn't it scummy" narrative. Votes for me, putting me up to an unannounced L-1.
8 ) #338: Tries to find a load of things to disagree with in what I've been saying. Seems to lose interest when I show that I'm making actual sense, but he doesn't move his vote.
9) #345: This is deliberate taunting! That post felt very annoying, because he's clearly flaunting the fact that he has the power to unvote, but has "chosen" not to pay any attention to my predicament. Then apologises about the L-1 without doing anything about the vote, which very much just rubs it in. The line a few posts later about "Speaking of slow, the line in this museum is ridiculous" (#351) seems designed for much the same effect of showing off about how much he's deliberately ignoring the fact I'm actually worried about being left at L-1. This is definitely not a pleasant or concerned townie way to play.
10) #371: Still deliberately voting.
11) #375: Now we add condescending to the list...
12) #400: partial case on gkrieg.
13) #427: Reacts with a snarky "sure, single me out" response when I ask why nobody was considering Andrew in the question of whether to lynch Robz or Jake. It genuinely seemed like both Dylan and gkrieg had just forgotten about Andrew's existence in their PoE. In Dylan's case, he's engineered his narrative so that he's only talking about the on-wagon set, so neatly gets to leave Andrew off. The fact that Andrew himself didn't see the clear fact that he was missing from any of this could actually be a bit of a scumslip, since in his mind as scum, he'd only be trying to frame people who're actually town.
14) #432: Urgh, why does he keep picking at me in a critical way. It's not like I don't justify every single thing he picks at. It just feels like he's trying to find something to frame me with, having realised that he can make me annoyed and defensive, since I already know I tend to get mislynched more often when I get defensive (but it's a hard habit to break).
15) #484: reads Jake's post as a townslip. This would be easier to do for a scum who knows for sure that Jake is town, since to town it actually doesn't look much like a townslip at all. Even Dylan picked up on that a few posts later.
Anyway, it's been way more than 10 mins, and I really have to go to bed now, so I'll finish this another time if more scumreadable things are required. I'm not going to be posting much tomorrow because I'll be in London restricted to phone posting while doing fun stuff for my birthday :-) Home on Sunday afternoon sometime.
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I'm not complaining that there's no scum narrative for me, I'm saying nobody has put one forward. Jeez. One sentence in and I already had to correct you. Ok, NOW I can read what you posted.
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I'll make a longer response when I get home but I just want to say this:
We are not playing "Lynch the Person Who Makes You the Most Uncomfortable". We're playing Mafia. Out goal is to lynch those we think are scum, assuming you're town, not just people you disagree with. I know we don't agree on much and you probably think I'm an asshole but that really doesn't mean anything. And I feel like you're not giving me the benefit of the doubt anyway. For example, I wasn't "baiting" Jake as you said I was. I legitimately like how he plays and I was excited to see him get in the game. He has a very honest, nothing-to-prove attitude and I respect that. I know you can't really tell because this is the internet but please, don't jump to conclusions like that when you don't have all the information.
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Okay, so this is going to be 10-min exercise in picking out things that make me uncomfortable about Andrew's play, since he's complaining there's no scum narrative for what he's done.
1) Ho opens with a load of nonsense stuff, like voting a non-existent player and voting his one stated townread. That kind of play is really just designed to signal that he's a player we might not get straight answers from, and to me it's a bad first impression.
No, this is a signal that I'm playing a game, and I'm trying to have a little fun with the game I'm playing. Aren't I allowed to have a little fun? I mean if my first posts were like "Alright guys time to get serious. I think SA is scummy because..." etc., right now you'd be saying it was a bad first impression because I'm signaling that I'm trying way too hard to act towny or whatever. There's nothing I could've done here that would've pleased you, and that's ok. I'm not here to please you or even try to leave a good impression, whatever that means. I'm here to lynch scum.
2) There's also the "I'll be here making stupid comments in the meantime." thing at #83. Weirdly, he seemed to be talking some sense in between. Oh, and then #90: "And NOW I will resume the stupid comments." He's definitely working to establish himself as the type of person who won't let people take things too seriously, and as someone who prefers to take things seriously, he's really ringing my warning bells. None of this is directly scummy. Maybe it just explains some omgus on my part. I did deliberately say I'm looking for things that make me uncomfortable (rather than things that are definitely scum-indicative).
Again, I'm trying to have a little fun. But to look at them and say they're DEFINITELY part of my evil master plan to not take what I say seriously? Why the hell would I want anyone to not take me seriously? What is the point of doing all these rereads, responding to all of you about your suspicions on me, making cases, etc. if I didn't want any of it taken seriously? I don't understand this.
3) #127 -- talks about reading M88, which was covert affairs, and seems to be trying to bait Jake slightly. This is not pro-town.
I addressed the Jake part already but what exactly isn't pro-town about me saying I'm excited that Jake is in this game?
4) He's making a few slight pushes at Jake. #219 is another one.
What do you mean by "push"? Here's #219:
Jake can you auto /in to every game I join please?
Another joke, in response to his "I will hammer at 12:00 forum time". I just liked how he put it all out there and didn't care what anybody else thought about it. It makes things more interesting/fun.
5) #252: backs Robz's entirely wrong interpretation of why I was trying to question Jake.
6) #294: still legitimizing Robz's lies about me!
Here is #294:
Will SA lynch SA?
Anyway, I'll catch up on this later today. I hammered because I thought there was a high likelihood of PPS actually being scum but I guess was wrong. LaLight seems like a strange kill.
I also thought there was a high likelihood. I think hammering in that situation is pretty townie, actually.
I'm still not a huge fan of SA's naysaying. Vote: Space
You mean naysaying the wagon yesterday? Because I was doing that too.
Just because you disagree with someone's assessment doesn't mean the other person is lying. And I like how you go after me when I was actually trying to pressure Robz here, and not you.
7) #321: Makes up a whole narrative about why I was voting for PPS, which is utterly wrong. This was no case of "here's a scum narrative and here's a town narrative", it was a pure "SA did this set of things and look isn't it scummy" narrative. Votes for me, putting me up to an unannounced L-1.
Uh... I found your vote scummy so I voted for you. How is this a problem? Just because it wasn't up to SA's voting standards (i.e. don't vote for SA) doesn't mean I'm not going to put a vote down anyway. And yes, I missed that it was L-1 and apologized for it.
8 ) #338: Tries to find a load of things to disagree with in what I've been saying. Seems to lose interest when I show that I'm making actual sense, but he doesn't move his vote.
I didn't respond within 10 minutes so I guess that means I lost interest and/or was intimidated by your sense-making. Yup. You got me. Also enough with this L-1 nonsense. I didn't feel like moving my vote so I didn't and I don't care how many times you tell me I should've or how many times you complain or call me scummy for it or whatever, I don't regret it and it's a complete and utter non-issue. I can't believe you are still bringing this up.
9) #345: This is deliberate taunting! That post felt very annoying, because he's clearly flaunting the fact that he has the power to unvote, but has "chosen" not to pay any attention to my predicament. Then apologises about the L-1 without doing anything about the vote, which very much just rubs it in. The line a few posts later about "Speaking of slow, the line in this museum is ridiculous" (#351) seems designed for much the same effect of showing off about how much he's deliberately ignoring the fact I'm actually worried about being left at L-1. This is definitely not a pleasant or concerned townie way to play.
Here is #345:
I'm not choosing to ignore you, I'm choosing not to obsessively check in on this game and read and respond to everything immediately like I have done before, and I'm enjoying this slower pace. Besides, I've been a little busy. I'm about to walk into a museum right now!
Oh and sorry for the unannounced L-1, I didn't notice. I keep forgetting there are only 7 of us in this game right now.
THIS is taunting!? THIS? This post right here^? That one? Are... are you.... this post!? The.... I.... buh.... whaaa?
Ok I think I am slightly less flabbergasted now. Ahem. I apologized for not realizing it was L-1. I DID NOT and WILL NOT apologize for putting you to L-1. I don't understand why you are completely obsessed with this. I'm also sorry to disappoint you by saying my comment about being in line at the museum was, alas, also not part of my evil master plan. I was just super bored of standing in line at the museum. And no, I didn't care about you being at L-1 because I had a scumread on you and wanted you to be lynched.
10) #371: Still deliberately voting.
Yes.
11) #375: Now we add condescending to the list...
Yup, I'm rude and mean and rude.
12) #400: partial case on gkrieg.
13) #427: Reacts with a snarky "sure, single me out" response when I ask why nobody was considering Andrew in the question of whether to lynch Robz or Jake. It genuinely seemed like both Dylan and gkrieg had just forgotten about Andrew's existence in their PoE. In Dylan's case, he's engineered his narrative so that he's only talking about the on-wagon set, so neatly gets to leave Andrew off. The fact that Andrew himself didn't see the clear fact that he was missing from any of this could actually be a bit of a scumslip, since in his mind as scum, he'd only be trying to frame people who're actually town.
I thought you meant "why hasn't Andrew responded to this discussion yet?", so that's where the "sure, single me out" comment came from. Clearly I misunderstood what you were saying.
14) #432: Urgh, why does he keep picking at me in a critical way. It's not like I don't justify every single thing he picks at. It just feels like he's trying to find something to frame me with, having realised that he can make me annoyed and defensive, since I already know I tend to get mislynched more often when I get defensive (but it's a hard habit to break).
All I did was ask you a question! Here it is:
What haven't we talked about? D1 we just went around in circles until we realized we were accomplishing nothing. By all means if you think we need to discuss something else about the setup that we haven't touched upon, go for it!
Sorry.. just found this post half-written in another phone tab.
Things I think we should have thought through a bit more include the possible implications of putting so many fake and possibly-real night results out the there, and what this means for being able to catch scum out by forcing them to manufacture fake claims so early (this is one reason I expect scum!Robz would be dead against it), and what happened to gkrieg's follow-the-cop idea that didn't get fully talked about in D1. There's tons of theory stuff, really. I guess I'm too used to having Calamitas or silver or those sorts of people around, since they're usually also quite interested in that sort of speculation.
I think if a town PR was confident he caught scum he would say so. I don't think a scum fakeclaim would get them very far. But anyway, if you're so concerned with all of this how come you didn't bring it up D1 instead of now?
And besides, like I said I had a scumread on you and I wanted to ask you questions and get some more responses from you.
15) #484: reads Jake's post as a townslip. This would be easier to do for a scum who knows for sure that Jake is town, since to town it actually doesn't look much like a townslip at all. Even Dylan picked up on that a few posts later.
I don't think you can fairly say that "town would do this, scum would do that" in any situation. I really don't buy into that at all.
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Andrew what has made you townie? What proves you are town?
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Andrew what has made you townie? What proves you are town?
To start with I was trying to not to have us stumble into the pps mislynch. I've been asking people questions trying to figure out what their motivations are, making cases and scumhunting, trying to find scum narratives and doing POE to try and make sure we don't mislynch again. And I'm trying to give people the benefit of the doubt and not OMGUS. For example, I posted that I think SA is town based on their interactions and reads with Dylan. My gut says they're scum and I feel like they've intentionally twisted my words and stretched the truth many times but I think Dylan and SA townreading eachother all game is a huge risk for partners, so SA is not my preferred lynch for today.
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vote: Andrew
Part of it is gut, part of it is how he reacted to the Dylan wagon, part of it is gut
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Vote: Dylan is safe for now. I'd consider a Jake lynch, Space not such a good lynch IMO
Vote Count 2.Joseph
SpaceAnemone (3): Robz888, AndrewisFTTW, JaketheBaseballGod22
Dylan32 (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (2): Dylan32, SpaceAnemone
not voting (1): gkrieg13
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 2 ends Saturday, April 1st at 6pm forum time.
So 12 hours to go, Space is on L-1
These posts from Joseph, along with his general towniness are what make me sure he is town.
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Also I'm glad no one could counterclaim me, because I come off the scummiest from yesterday's wagon.
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So here is Robz as the Jake wagon is falling apart (Joseph had voted for Jake at this time, and away from Dylan). So he is the first person on the wagon and actively tries to get others on the wagon.
Mehhh I really don't like the Jake lynch. What else can we do?
Vote: Dylan
Vote: Jake this is L-1
Seems a better lynch option than gkrieg
Why not Dylan? You should vote Dylan.
And this is Andrew right after (Like literally the post after the last quote).
Vote: Robz
Stating intent to hammer and then pulling off for seemingly no reason. Trying to avoid the lynch of his partner maybe?
So Robz chooses scum to go after when a wagon 55 minutes to lynch falls apart. Andrew goes after Robz.
Also I thought Jake was town but Robz pulling that move is scummy as hell. I think lynching either one would be good at this point.
Then Andrew tries to get the lynch to go back to being between Robz and Jake, because he hasn't seen the Jake claim.
Oh right Jake is at L-1.
Intent to hammer.
Jake do you want to claim?
Okay, well you missed something big. Jake essentially claimed Doctor, so we probably shouldn't lynch him.
Really? I guess I missed that.
unvote
Let me go back and read again.
Andrew gets the claim after Jake actually claims.
Ok cool, this is actually good I think that you guys claimed. I was leaning scum on Dylan earlier for the way he was pressing Jake.
We sure he's on L-2? I don't wanna derphammer.
And finally goes for Dylan.
I'm fine with Dylan or Andrew. It's close but I probably narrowly prefer Dylan.
And this is how Robz responds. I think with the momentum going either way (between Dylan and Andrew) Robz doesn't choose to bus his partner here.
Vote: Dylan I guess trust the PR
PPE: 2
And Joseph comes in and gets on the wagon with crappy reasoning. Not something scum does. Something busy town!Joseph definitely does.
Oh I saw Joseph's vote but didn't account for Gkrieg moving his vote.
Vote: Dylan
Andrew's vote would be super townie, if he weren't the other viable wagon really.
Vote: Dylan
Thinking about it a bit longer, I think Andrew missing the Jake thing is probably townier, rather than scummier.
Once again Robz kind of had the choice to pivot back to Andrew, but didn't.
So from this, I really just don't think Joseph can possibly be scum. SA actually came out the conf!town bucket, and goes into the possibles bucket.
I think I would say my order right now is Andrew>Space>Robz>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Joseph
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vote: Andrew
Part of it is gut, part of it is how he reacted to the Dylan wagon, part of it is gut
Cool. Glad I could waste all of my time answering your questions. There's literally nothing I could say that would convince you I'm town.
Andrew's vote would be super townie, if he weren't the other viable wagon really.
I disagree. It would be super scummy if I wasn't the other viable wagon. I mostly voted Dylan because mislynching me would've been bad for town. And besides, I was starting to find Dylan scummy for how he was going after Jake earlier in the day.
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Vote: Dylan I guess trust the PR
PPE: 2
And Joseph comes in and gets on the wagon with crappy reasoning. Not something scum does. Something busy town!Joseph definitely does.
This is seriously why you think Joseph is town? Ok I think I've discovered the key to mafia success: act as scummy and anti-town as I possibly can all the time, and I'll always have a solid townread on me. Clearly this whole thing of actually trying to lynch scum is pointless.
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Also I'm glad no one could counterclaim me, because I come off the scummiest from yesterday's wagon.
And yet you're town. See how that works? What's with the double standard?
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vote: Andrew
Part of it is gut, part of it is how he reacted to the Dylan wagon, part of it is gut
Cool. Glad I could waste all of my time answering your questions. There's literally nothing I could say that would convince you I'm town.
Andrew's vote would be super townie, if he weren't the other viable wagon really.
I disagree. It would be super scummy if I wasn't the other viable wagon. I mostly voted Dylan because mislynching me would've been bad for town. And besides, I was starting to find Dylan scummy for how he was going after Jake earlier in the day.
This attitude is also similar to your play in M96.
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vote: Andrew
Part of it is gut, part of it is how he reacted to the Dylan wagon, part of it is gut
Cool. Glad I could waste all of my time answering your questions. There's literally nothing I could say that would convince you I'm town.
Andrew's vote would be super townie, if he weren't the other viable wagon really.
I disagree. It would be super scummy if I wasn't the other viable wagon. I mostly voted Dylan because mislynching me would've been bad for town. And besides, I was starting to find Dylan scummy for how he was going after Jake earlier in the day.
This attitude is also similar to your play in M96.
And if I was town, like I am now, I would've played it exactly the same way. It's been a while but go back to any of my older games and you'll see an even more defensive and confrontational me as town.
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Here are a couple examples:
Wheel of Time Mafia (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9962.0)
Stack the Deck Rerun (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11240.0)
And... another that I don't want to post. It's not exactly glamorous.
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Space's case on Andrew is not convincing me. Gkrieg's is better. I'm not at all convinced of Joseph towniness though.
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Vote Count 3.3
Robz888 (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (1): Robz888
AndrewisFTTW (1): gkrieg13
not voting (2): SpaceAnemone, AndrewisFTTW
With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day 3 ends Monday, April 10th at 6pm forum time. this is in just under 2 days
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With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day 3 ends Monday, April 10th at 6pm forum time. this is in just under 2 days
Oh wow under 2 days. I seriously need to actually commit more time to this game......
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Space's case on Andrew is not convincing me. Gkrieg's is better. I'm not at all convinced of Joseph towniness though.
Yeah, it wasn't much of a case.. I mostly wanted to work out what things it was that he'd been doing that made me want to lynch him so strongly. I possibly should just have kept those in a text buffer rather than posting late at night, since it's become clear that a lot of the stuff that makes me react to Andrew is general attitude rather than alignment-indicative play, but I didn't want to leave the game too long. And I didn't even get to the present day in terms of the reread :-( I'll be back at a computer tomorrow again, though maybe it's not an exercise I really need to complete.
For now, I actually still think I trust me-from-the-other-day who scum-read Robz over Andrew, but I'll vote with gkrieg if it comes down to it.
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So gkrieg wants to lynch Andrew, Andrew wants to lynch Joseph, Joseph wants to lynch me, I want to lynch Joseph... and Space wants to lynch me.
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So gkrieg wants to lynch Andrew, Andrew wants to lynch Joseph, Joseph wants to lynch me, I want to lynch Joseph... and Space wants to lynch me.
Joseph wants to lynch Robz or Andrew, I'm not 100% sure which one
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So gkrieg wants to lynch Andrew, Andrew wants to lynch Joseph, Joseph wants to lynch me, I want to lynch Joseph... and Space wants to lynch me.
Joseph wants to lynch Robz or Andrew, I'm not 100% sure which one
I have a lot of sympathy for the "busy town player" angle, but not when it risks losing us the game if you really are town. You're not saying anything about why/when you're going to be unavailable and so disengaged, so it's getting harder and harder to give you the benefit of the doubt.
I suggest that if you don't want my scumread on you to grow very quickly over the next 24 hours (bearing in mind that 2/5 players are already saying they support your lynch), you post a reasoned case on Andrew. I'm being prescriptive there because I don't want you to be hiding behind a layer of indecision on who to pick, and because your vote appears to be on Robz even though you say you don't know who to go for, so clearly your scumread on Andrew must have grown more recently if your current statement of indecision genuine.
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Just under one day.
Can we please lynch Andrew? I would also be fine with Space or Robz if a really good case were presented.
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Alright I guess me and Robz are the only ones who want to lynch Joseph. So SA is my next choice.
SA and Dylan "townread" eachother the first couple days, which to me seems weird but it could totally be a scum tactic planned out ahead of time to make us not see them as partners. SA was also overreacting like crazy when they were at L-1, and still complains about me putting them to L-1 and leaving my vote there. SA has also said multiple times that they wouldn't have a problem sheeping gkrieg, which I REALLY don't like. Not because of gkrieg, but rather the whole idea of blindly sheeping the IC seems designed to garner towncred and is kind of a cop out for not following through on reads by placing a vote down. So there it is. That's what I've been observing from SA for a while.
Vote: SA
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Alright I guess me and Robz are the only ones who want to lynch Joseph. So SA is my next choice.
SA and Dylan "townread" eachother the first couple days, which to me seems weird but it could totally be a scum tactic planned out ahead of time to make us not see them as partners. SA was also overreacting like crazy when they were at L-1, and still complains about me putting them to L-1 and leaving my vote there. SA has also said multiple times that they wouldn't have a problem sheeping gkrieg, which I REALLY don't like. Not because of gkrieg, but rather the whole idea of blindly sheeping the IC seems designed to garner towncred and is kind of a cop out for not following through on reads by placing a vote down. So there it is. That's what I've been observing from SA for a while.
Vote: SA
Gkrieg, don't you think if Andrew was scum he would be voting for Joseph here, instead of Space? I do.
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Everybody is behaving pretty townie, actually. No one is really getting on board another lynch for self-preservation. I guess Space is in the safest position and can best afford to do that, if scum.
I'm more stumped than I was earlier, I think.
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Vote Count 3.3
Robz888 (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (1): Robz888
AndrewisFTTW (1): gkrieg13
not voting (2): SpaceAnemone, AndrewisFTTW
With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day 3 ends Monday, April 10th at 6pm forum time. this is in just under 2 days
Then again, the fact that Space isn't on any wagon might be townie. I feel like scum would feel drawn to get a vote down quickly--one step closer to lynching someone that isn't you--and that's what Joseph did.
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Alright I guess me and Robz are the only ones who want to lynch Joseph. So SA is my next choice.
SA and Dylan "townread" eachother the first couple days, which to me seems weird but it could totally be a scum tactic planned out ahead of time to make us not see them as partners. SA was also overreacting like crazy when they were at L-1, and still complains about me putting them to L-1 and leaving my vote there. SA has also said multiple times that they wouldn't have a problem sheeping gkrieg, which I REALLY don't like. Not because of gkrieg, but rather the whole idea of blindly sheeping the IC seems designed to garner towncred and is kind of a cop out for not following through on reads by placing a vote down. So there it is. That's what I've been observing from SA for a while.
Vote: SA
Gkrieg, don't you think if Andrew was scum he would be voting for Joseph here, instead of Space? I do.
Except that I've said I won't lynch Joseph
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You won't lynch Joseph, full stop. Okay, fine, here you go. Vote: Andrew
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You won't lynch Joseph, full stop. Okay, fine, here you go. Vote: Andrew
Why not Space?
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You won't lynch Joseph, full stop. Okay, fine, here you go. Vote: Andrew
Why not Space?
I think Space is townier than you. I think.
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Well if you're decided, lynch Joseph tomorrow. I'm still not completely convinced by Robz though. I just can't read the dude.
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And if SA and Robz are town, just sheeping the IC is really bad for town, in general.
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And if SA and Robz are town, just sheeping the IC is really bad for town, in general.
I mean, I agree with that, but when the IC says he will NOT, under any circumstances, lynch your top scum suspect, than you move on to your secondary suspect.
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And if SA and Robz are town, just sheeping the IC is really bad for town, in general.
I mean, I agree with that, but when the IC says he will NOT, under any circumstances, lynch your top scum suspect, than you move on to your secondary suspect.
Fair enough.
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I do think scum!Joseph is basically lurking his way to a scarily likely win. But I guess I'll get the chance to make that case tomorrow if you're not scum, after you and gkrieg are dead.
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Or we could just try Joseph anyway.
Vote: Joseph
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And if SA and Robz are town, just sheeping the IC is really bad for town, in general.
I mean, I agree with that, but when the IC says he will NOT, under any circumstances, lynch your top scum suspect, than you move on to your secondary suspect.
I just really don't see a compelling case for Joseph. Make me believe he is scum.
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And if SA and Robz are town, just sheeping the IC is really bad for town, in general.
I mean, I agree with that, but when the IC says he will NOT, under any circumstances, lynch your top scum suspect, than you move on to your secondary suspect.
I just really don't see a compelling case for Joseph. Make me believe he is scum.
I totally would but you apparently weren't convinced by anything I've put out there, so maybe Robz should try.
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I'll do a good reread of everyone tomorrow. Space is looking scummier by the minute, so keep trying if you are town Andrew. If you aren't, just scumslip real hard or something.
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So gkrieg wants to lynch Andrew, Andrew wants to lynch Joseph, Joseph wants to lynch me, I want to lynch Joseph... and Space wants to lynch me.
Joseph wants to lynch Robz or Andrew, I'm not 100% sure which one
I have a lot of sympathy for the "busy town player" angle, but not when it risks losing us the game if you really are town. You're not saying anything about why/when you're going to be unavailable and so disengaged, so it's getting harder and harder to give you the benefit of the doubt.
I suggest that if you don't want my scumread on you to grow very quickly over the next 24 hours (bearing in mind that 2/5 players are already saying they support your lynch), you post a reasoned case on Andrew. I'm being prescriptive there because I don't want you to be hiding behind a layer of indecision on who to pick, and because your vote appears to be on Robz even though you say you don't know who to go for, so clearly your scumread on Andrew must have grown more recently if your current statement of indecision genuine.
Was this aimed at Robz or me?
Because I feel like we're both very inactive in this game.
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So gkrieg wants to lynch Andrew, Andrew wants to lynch Joseph, Joseph wants to lynch me, I want to lynch Joseph... and Space wants to lynch me.
Joseph wants to lynch Robz or Andrew, I'm not 100% sure which one
I have a lot of sympathy for the "busy town player" angle, but not when it risks losing us the game if you really are town. You're not saying anything about why/when you're going to be unavailable and so disengaged, so it's getting harder and harder to give you the benefit of the doubt.
I suggest that if you don't want my scumread on you to grow very quickly over the next 24 hours (bearing in mind that 2/5 players are already saying they support your lynch), you post a reasoned case on Andrew. I'm being prescriptive there because I don't want you to be hiding behind a layer of indecision on who to pick, and because your vote appears to be on Robz even though you say you don't know who to go for, so clearly your scumread on Andrew must have grown more recently if your current statement of indecision genuine.
Was this aimed at Robz or me?
Because I feel like we're both very inactive in this game.
You, totally!
You said you don't know which person to go for between Robz and Andrew, but you don't seem to be making any effort, either now or earlier, and that worries me. You've engaged far less with everything all the way through than I have, even though I've been quite explicit about intended VLAs and connection issues I was having. From my point of view, if I'm going to believe gkreig that lynching you is a bad idea, you need to start saying more things to show that you're actually considering the different ways in which the two of them come across as scum, and not just waiting for gkrieg to lead us into a lynch on one or other while keeping quiet because you know that building a decent case on anyone might reveal that you already know who the scum is and it isn't any of the rest of us.
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You said you don't know which person to go for between Robz and Andrew, but you don't seem to be making any effort, either now or earlier, and that worries me. You've engaged far less with everything all the way through than I have, even though I've been quite explicit about intended VLAs and connection issues I was having. From my point of view, if I'm going to believe gkreig that lynching you is a bad idea, you need to start saying more things to show that you're actually considering the different ways in which the two of them come across as scum, and not just waiting for gkrieg to lead us into a lynch on one or other while keeping quiet because you know that building a decent case on anyone might reveal that you already know who the scum is and it isn't any of the rest of us.
The bolded part is pretty much exactly what I said about SA earlier, and now they're changing their tune:
SA and Dylan "townread" eachother the first couple days, which to me seems weird but it could totally be a scum tactic planned out ahead of time to make us not see them as partners. SA was also overreacting like crazy when they were at L-1, and still complains about me putting them to L-1 and leaving my vote there. SA has also said multiple times that they wouldn't have a problem sheeping gkrieg, which I REALLY don't like. Not because of gkrieg, but rather the whole idea of blindly sheeping the IC seems designed to garner towncred and is kind of a cop out for not following through on reads by placing a vote down. So there it is. That's what I've been observing from SA for a while.
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So gkrieg wants to lynch Andrew, Andrew wants to lynch Joseph, Joseph wants to lynch me, I want to lynch Joseph... and Space wants to lynch me.
Joseph wants to lynch Robz or Andrew, I'm not 100% sure which one
I have a lot of sympathy for the "busy town player" angle, but not when it risks losing us the game if you really are town. You're not saying anything about why/when you're going to be unavailable and so disengaged, so it's getting harder and harder to give you the benefit of the doubt.
I suggest that if you don't want my scumread on you to grow very quickly over the next 24 hours (bearing in mind that 2/5 players are already saying they support your lynch), you post a reasoned case on Andrew. I'm being prescriptive there because I don't want you to be hiding behind a layer of indecision on who to pick, and because your vote appears to be on Robz even though you say you don't know who to go for, so clearly your scumread on Andrew must have grown more recently if your current statement of indecision genuine.
Was this aimed at Robz or me?
Because I feel like we're both very inactive in this game.
You, totally!
You said you don't know which person to go for between Robz and Andrew, but you don't seem to be making any effort, either now or earlier, and that worries me. You've engaged far less with everything all the way through than I have, even though I've been quite explicit about intended VLAs and connection issues I was having. From my point of view, if I'm going to believe gkreig that lynching you is a bad idea, you need to start saying more things to show that you're actually considering the different ways in which the two of them come across as scum, and not just waiting for gkrieg to lead us into a lynch on one or other while keeping quiet because you know that building a decent case on anyone might reveal that you already know who the scum is and it isn't any of the rest of us.
I'm genuinely planning to post some stuff this evening (UK time). Which isn't ideal, but will be before the deadline
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Ya so i will most likely be around for deadline.
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You said you don't know which person to go for between Robz and Andrew, but you don't seem to be making any effort, either now or earlier, and that worries me. You've engaged far less with everything all the way through than I have, even though I've been quite explicit about intended VLAs and connection issues I was having. From my point of view, if I'm going to believe gkreig that lynching you is a bad idea, you need to start saying more things to show that you're actually considering the different ways in which the two of them come across as scum, and not just waiting for gkrieg to lead us into a lynch on one or other while keeping quiet because you know that building a decent case on anyone might reveal that you already know who the scum is and it isn't any of the rest of us.
The bolded part is pretty much exactly what I said about SA earlier, and now they're changing their tune:
SA and Dylan "townread" eachother the first couple days, which to me seems weird but it could totally be a scum tactic planned out ahead of time to make us not see them as partners. SA was also overreacting like crazy when they were at L-1, and still complains about me putting them to L-1 and leaving my vote there. SA has also said multiple times that they wouldn't have a problem sheeping gkrieg, which I REALLY don't like. Not because of gkrieg, but rather the whole idea of blindly sheeping the IC seems designed to garner towncred and is kind of a cop out for not following through on reads by placing a vote down. So there it is. That's what I've been observing from SA for a while.
Look, I'm just not going to be goaded into putting votes out there at random when there are two people I scumread and only one scum: that's got a high chance of ending badly when it's so clear that there are also other townies who're in a similarly uncertain position. I'm also still happy to sheep gkrieg and lynch you. I'm most definitely not playing a blind game of follow-the-IC! By all means consider this my intent to hammer, though.
My concern at the moment is that I want to be prepared for the chance you're not the scum, at which point the most likely scenario is me being at lylo with Robz and Joseph, so it's most definitely worthwhile to push Joseph now, since I'd rather have his evidence considered while we still have our IC here to help process it.
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I was just saying it looks like you've changed your gameplan here and it's very similar to what I posted earlier. So wait, you just posted intent to hammer, and yet you had just spent a couple posts pressuring Joseph? I'm sorry I just don't buy the "gathering evidence for tomorrow" thing, which is almost a scumslip, especially when you say you want to do it while we have the IC here. More appealing to the IC. More hedginess. If you're scum mislynching me is a great move. You've already started suspecting Joseph and you know Robz wants to lynch Joseph so you wouldn't need to put so much effort into convincing him. Thus you would see a clear path to a win tomorrow by mislynching Joseph.
Vote: SA
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On timings, the 6pm forum-time deadline is 11pm for me, and I'm pretty booked up between now and then. I leave work at 18.45ish to grab a quick dinner with friends before our choir rehearsal 19.30-21.30, and those are intense enough activities that I won't even be following along on my phone. If I skip the choir social, I should be able to get home around 22.00, and definitely online again by 22.30. In the meantime, before I leave work, I'm more likely to be dipping into the forum while I wait for batch processing jobs to finish, though work is actually pretty full-on just now.
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I'm so stumped. I guess probably we should just lynch Andrew.
I mean, the big thing is I should probably re-read, which maybe I will have time to do before deadline...
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Vote Count 3.4
Robz888 (1): Joseph2302
AndrewisFTTW (2): gkrieg13, Robz888
SpaceAnemone (1): AndrewisFTTW
not voting (1): SpaceAnemone
With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day 3 ends Monday, April 10th at 6pm forum time. this is in 6hr
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unvote
rereading everyone now.
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Unvote and doing a reread now.
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Although I think scum is in {Robz, Andrew}
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D1 Final Vote Count
pingpongsam (5): SpaceAnemone, Joseph2302, Robz888, JaketheBaseballGod22, gkrieg13
Robz888 (2): LaLight, AndrewisFTTW
Joseph2302 (1): Dylan32
not voting (1): pingpongsam
With 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch.
Interesting that if Andrew really is scum, then both scum were off wagon, as was the IC. Which means that town really sucked D1.
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D1 Final Vote Count
pingpongsam (5): SpaceAnemone, Joseph2302, Robz888, JaketheBaseballGod22, gkrieg13
Robz888 (2): LaLight, AndrewisFTTW
Joseph2302 (1): Dylan32
not voting (1): pingpongsam
With 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch.
Interesting that if Andrew really is scum, then both scum were off wagon, as was the IC. Which means that town really sucked D1.
Not impossible. Day 1 was a very weird lynch.
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Well, I re-read Joseph. He's posted very little, and almost nothing of substance, so it's a tough re-read. This is the only thing that sticks out. Here Joseph is voting for Dylan, which is putting his scum partner in a lot of jeopardy.
Vote: Dylan I guess trust the PR
PPE: 2
Of course, one of those PPEs is gkrieg, the IC, moving his vote to Andrew, which makes a vote for Dylan safer... if the IC is voting for Andrew, Andrew has a good chance of being lynched and voting for partner is safer. Of course, that's not how it went down.
Overall, Joseph has tried to pay like he's busy and barely paying attention, at one point he claimed that he hadn't really read the setup and assumed that every permutation had a rolecop.
I guess I just don't buy this level of detachment. Maybe it's genuine? But I hate watching scum play like this and win.
So that's my Joseph case. It's a sucky case because Joseph has barely played this game and so there's nothing to base anything on.
I'm fine to lynch Andrew today, but I'm gonna be pretty lazer focused on Joseph tomorrow if you're wrong, gkrieg.
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A case on Joseph is not a case on me. Why are you so willing to lynch me instead of Space, if Joseph doesn't happen today?
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A case on Joseph is not a case on me. Why are you so willing to lynch me instead of Space, if Joseph doesn't happen today?
I've seen town Space and I've seen scum Space and this feels like town Space. You on the other hand, I don't know, you feel pretty similar to your scum self from Mafia 96. Gkrieg has been building an okay case against you, and he's the IC. Bottom line, I have to bet on one person being town, and I'm most comfortable making this about Space.
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Alright then, next time I'm town I'll make sure to not put any effort into the game whatsoever. Maybe everyone will townread me then!
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Everyone is referencing the one game that I've played recently and I happened to be scum. But that's your ONLY reference so it's very easy to point to that and say I'm acting similar. I linked to a couple older games where I'm town defending myself from being mislynchI but it's a little late to read over them now.
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Ya I think LaLight is town now. unvote
I'm inclined to feel townier on you for this exchange, but tell me, were you deliberately putting pressure on LL given how he can get flustered, or did you genuinely think he'd slipped?
I wanted to put pressure on him to see if he really figured out that he couldn't slip that way. I figured if he was town, he would try to defend himself before realizing it couldn't possibly be a slip, where if he were scum, he would instantly realize that it was impossible for it to be a scum slip.
I would conclude the opposite I think.
Okay, I maybe have read your thoughts not really carefully, but claiming is good only if we at 5th setup. If we are at 6th it is better to claim later so rc will have some result till then
But to kill the rolecop in 6, scum has to give up a person to the watcher.
That's true. But they won't have a choice, really, it's better to give up a person than to keep rc alive. So they will kill rc anyway although we can make rc even more useful by waiting for D2 to claim. Or even if we lynch scum D1 that would be just awesome
I disagree about scum killing the RC in 6. I think they both want to stay alive for as long as possible. Also, this just occurred to me: in 6 both scum are goons and will give the RC vanilla results which renders the RC's night action practically useless. Claiming would make him an IC I guess, but we wouldn't know for sure we were in 6. [insert more useless speculation]
Again, I don't know if it's worth taking the chance even if we knew there was a RC in this game. Ultimately it's up to the RC if there is one.
Honestly to me all of these votes are scummy. As scummy as I find Robz's vote, he is the ONLY ONE TO PROVIDE A REASON FOR VOTING PPS. Obviously not everyone on the wagon is scum. So I just want those who are town on the wagon to know that there is nothing about this wagon that was pro-town. It makes it more difficult for us to analyze the wagon and scumhunt and thus could very well lead to more mislynches. But enough berating, although I do hope you all feel bad now.
Out of all of these I find SA's and Joseph's votes to be the scummiest. SA's vote was RVS and they never even commented on pps's "claim" besides joking about it as a reason to join his wagon. So SA pretty much voted randomly, encouraged more random votes, and then just went along with the wagon because hey, as long as they're town it's totally cool if they get lynched right?
Joseph's vote.... uhhhh.... well there's nothing to go off of besides a vote. Also while rereading I found this:
Vote: LaLight
She's a bit scummy
This was before his pps vote obviously. Would Joseph NK LL after supposedly scumreading him?
Vote: SA
This is slightly scummy from Andrew. Just saying that everyone on the PPS wagon was scummy because he can conveniently cast doubt on everyone on the wagon while keeping doubt off of Dylan.
I'm about to be VLA till after the deadline.
My vote on Robz isn't useful because he's still VLA himself. I'll vote: Joseph now. I hope to be on at least by phone from the place I'm going, but I'm really not sure how the data coverage will be...
Isn't this also unannounced L-1?
I posted my vote count immediately beforehand, so it's not like anyone should be super-surprised at the voting distribution. Not announcing it was am oversight on my part, though.. I was rushing to make sure I wasn't leaving a wasted vote when leaving for my holiday. (Hi from Wales!)
And yet YOU'RE LEAVING YOUR VOTE ON HIM! SCUM!
Ok, this is pretty townie from Andrew.
Ok, I'm stopping here and posting what I got. I'm at the beginning of D3.
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In all seriousness, I think you voting yourself is a pretty null PPS-ish thing to do, so I'm not going to get my logic in a twist over it.
Maybe, because you are relatively new. Or maybe you're scum trying to nix my town vibe because the truth is that scum!PPS would never claim to be scum on D1.
I don't see town narrative for intentionally attenuating anther's attempts at generating a town signal. It's really all town can do at this stage of the game.
This would have been a much townier thing if your sig wasn't what it is. ;)
I think given his involvement with creating the setup, gkrieg would have probably started with the rc talk early as either alignment, especially since someone else in the game already knew some of his thoughts and would recognize it if he were to try to hide some info/insight he had. However, the way he has done it suggests town to me.
Vote: Joseph
PPE 1
In all seriousness, I think you voting yourself is a pretty null PPS-ish thing to do, so I'm not going to get my logic in a twist over it.
Maybe, because you are relatively new. Or maybe you're scum trying to nix my town vibe because the truth is that scum!PPS would never claim to be scum on D1.
I don't see town narrative for intentionally attenuating anther's attempts at generating a town signal. It's really all town can do at this stage of the game.
This would have been a much townier thing if your sig wasn't what it is. ;)
I think given his involvement with creating the setup, gkrieg would have probably started with the rc talk early as either alignment, especially since someone else in the game already knew some of his thoughts and would recognize it if he were to try to hide some info/insight he had. However, the way he has done it suggests town to me.
Vote: Joseph
PPE 1
Why?
Why are you not letting him react to it himself before you try to get a reason out of me?
Is this your master scumhunting plan? Vote people with no substance and arbitrarily decide whether or not it's scummy?
Nope. It was to vote with little (or none in this case) disclosed substance to gauge reactions that can be recalled later when there is more evidence to combine it with, whichever way the evidence points.
And Joseph, I would have liked a bit more than just copying Jake there. Want to try again for me, please?
Jake, this is why you don't answer for other people immediately, because then you give them an easy way out of pressure, which makes sense if you are trying to diffuse potential pressure on a partner or you have a night result which ICs them, which you don't.
In the interest of actually protecting PR identities, other people need to actually post results that are more than "vanilla" "saw nothing/no result" so in the event someone actually gets a non-vanilla/saw-nothing result, they aren't the only ones sticking out and basically revealing themselves. If everyone does the same thing except the actual PR, this is a self-defeating exercise. I know the plain results are the most likely outcomes, but we do need variety in our claims I would think.
If I were a rolecop, I would have targeted Joseph and gotten jailkeeper.
If I were a tracker, I would have targeted gkrieg and seen him target SA.
If I were a watcher, I would have targeted Robz and seen Jake target him.
In the interest of actually protecting PR identities, other people need to actually post results that are more than "vanilla" "saw nothing/no result" so in the event someone actually gets a non-vanilla/saw-nothing result, they aren't the only ones sticking out and basically revealing themselves. If everyone does the same thing except the actual PR, this is a self-defeating exercise. I know the plain results are the most likely outcomes, but we do need variety in our claims I would think.
I disagree with your analysis here. I think there are pros and cons with claiming non-null results for the PRs you have to fabricate. On the pro side, it makes the game more confusing the puzzle through if there's a lot of claimed activity. On the minus side, you go the other way and make the true results stand out because they're null in a forest of true-result noise! I think we actually want to move along something like the actual expectation of the PR results, maybe upping the hit-rate only slightly to account for people's reads... I mean, how often are anyone's reads really good as a PR on N1 anyway?
Accounting for the fact we lost a VT before going into N1, here's a breakdown for each scenario:
Game 1) No claiming PRs at all.
Game 2) RC has a 2/7 chance of hitting a non-null result, and a 1/6 chance of being RBd.
Game 3) RC has a 4/7 chance of hitting a non-null result, and a 1/3 chance of being RBd.
Game 4) Tracker has a 2/7 chance of hitting a non-null result. No RBing.
Game 5) RC has a 2/7 chance of hitting a non-null result. No RBing.
Game 6) RC has a 1/7 chance of hitting a non-null result (which is the Tracker). No RBing.
Game 6) Watcher has a 2/7 chance of hitting a non-null result. No RBing.
Game 7) Watcher has a 1/7-2/7 chance of hitting a non-null result (depending on ninja).
Game 7) Tracker has a 1/7-2/7 chance of hitting a non-null result (depending on ninja).
I see where you are coming from, but if you pay attention to the game state at the time I posted, 3 people had posted and essentially all results were vanilla/null to that point. I said what I said with the hopes that a couple of the remaining people including myself would give more creative results, which in turn would result in roughly an even split of boring vs exciting results (for lack of a better short description). This result would still lean slightly heavy on non-null results, but if one person after my comment went ahead and posted null results, then the proportion would be pretty close to what you are saying.
This is not something I see Dylan talking about with his partner in the thread. Townpoints to Space.
vote: Robz. Space for president.
Vote Count 2.2
SpaceAnemone (3): Robz888, JaketheBaseballGod22, AndrewisFTTW
Robz888 (2): SpaceAnemone, Dylan32
JaketheBaseballGod22 (1): gkrieg13
not voting (1): Joseph2302
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 2 ends Saturday, April 1st at 6pm forum time.
But then he also has this vote which brings us to this vote count. This seems pretty incriminating against Space. Once again, if Space is town, then this looks good for Joseph, because that would mean that both scum are off-wagon if he is town.
So I just reread Joseph and Robz, and there isn't a whole lot from either. Robz came off slightly scummier, but he is VLA, so unless more people think he would actually be a good lynch right now, unvote. I would vote for Joseph, but I am comfortable waiting for his promised post tonight to give him a chance, since it was mostly just a lack of content. Andrew's last post is slightly scummy. I don't know why town would be comfortable with a slow pace most of the time. Gkrieg's case on Jake makes sense too. Jake, post more.
I'm not sure what to make of this from Dylan.
Joseph said the same thing about Space saying the cop should claim in #291, and Space replied to that same thing the same way in #296. Plus, Space's original post that Joseph is referring to isn't even that hard to understand.
vote: Joseph
Interesting that Dylan jumps on the Joseph scumslip thing. Still not sure what to make of it.
For me, it is because of the scum slip.
Honestly I hadn't even read the setup, I assumed there was a rolecop since every discussion seemed to be about a rolecop
It would be easier for scum to go without reading the setup here I think, because depending on how descriptive the flavor names that schadd provided are, they might not have needed to even look at the setup post to know what exactly was in the setup, which could lead a busy scum to assume that everyone knew a rolecop was in the setup.
The fact that Dylan keeps pushing for Joseph just makes me think Joseph is town.
I disagree with you about Joseph. When you know it is this kind of setup you read it as scum and Joseph is more like this as town than scum.
I would vote Robz or Jake I think.
So which of the VLA-Robz or the not-all-that-scummy-Jake would you prefer? And do you have a better case on Jake than just he was like this is recent scum games?
And the fact that he defends Robz makes Robz scummier in my eyes.
Jake, why do you think SA has been scummy? I just reread trying to find your reasons, and one mention of it was that you disagreed with one of their posts about Robz and the other you just quoted a post and said this is scummy but didn't explain why you thought so.
The post about robz was SA saying that he is scum because he disagreed with the everyone claiming results thing and whereas I thought that showed robz as more towny. Another thing was when the space wagon was going space's main defense was that he was towny because he was "not the biggest scum threat" and then when i replied with this
So I just reread Joseph and Robz, and there isn't a whole lot from either. Robz came off slightly scummier, but he is VLA, so unless more people think he would actually be a good lynch right now, unvote. I would vote for Joseph, but I am comfortable waiting for his promised post tonight to give him a chance, since it was mostly just a lack of content. Andrew's last post is slightly scummy. I don't know why town would be comfortable with a slow pace most of the time. Gkrieg's case on Jake makes sense too. Jake, post more.
It is also strange that Jake hasn't posted since I explained my vote on him, when he has been online.
Well I just jumped online although my computer is always on which might explain why but just because I'm trying to play a more slower game so that I'm not lynched D-1. Oh and sorry for the unannounced L-1, I didn't notice. I keep forgetting there are only 7 of us in this game right now.
... so you're celebrating the nice slow pace of the game as an excuse not to engage, and just to leave your vote at L-1? Like you genuinely believe I'm the biggest scum threat here right now?
And since there are only 7 of us in the game, it means people have to talk more, not less!
ummmm just because your not "the biggest scum threat in this game right now" (not sure about this) doesn't mean your not scum. Also gkrieg your case is true but just because I've been scum the last two games since i changed my play style doesn't mean I'm scum this game so really the case is invalid.
he then says that any town players who are voting for him are playing bad
ummmm just because your not "the biggest scum threat in this game right now" (not sure about this) doesn't mean your not scum.
I'm the person who's one vote away from being lynched right now, thanks specifically to Andrew. He can just about get away with putting me to an unannounced L-1 by claiming this is his careless laid-back game-play and he didn't realise. However leaving me there now that he's admitted he's fully aware that it's L-1, is not good play for town at all unless he actually thinks I'm really a threat. OTOH, if he's scum waiting for a derphammer, it makes much more sense.
Also, I think gkreig's point about your retort not coming from a very towny-seeming place is also accurate.
Also he and gkrieg (my main scum read) have agreed on almost every issue or topic of conversation in the game. Seems like the main possible gkrieg scum partner to me.
Also when you go back to D1 SA at the start was one of the main pushers toward the PPS wagon but toward the end he tryed to distance himself from the wagon
You guys really want to hammer right this second? This game has been going for like 2 days.
we should just get D1 out of the way asap and if PPS wants to volunteer to end it then he can go ahead and do it.
How much information do you think PPS's flip will give us now, compared to letting D1 run its course more completely and generating a bunch more interactions between players who may or may not then get flipped later?
How likely do you think it is that he'll flip scum if someone hammers now?
Right after it seems like he's distanced himself enough his scum buddy gkrieg hammer's PPS while SA is still on wagon
That is why I think he is scum
Disagreeing about a read isn't really enough to justify a scum read.
I think gkrieg would actually be less likely to agree with a partner on most things, so I would be more likely to assume at most one of gkrieg and Space are scum, in the case that I'm wrong about both being town.
If town doesn't think Space is the most likely person to be scum, I agree that carelessly being put and left at L-1 really early in D2 after the crappy D1 that we had is kind of bad play for town, so whether Space is scum or not, they had a point there. If you do think Space is the most likely person to be scum, then there wouldn't really be anything wrong with your play there.
Space has already discussed their positioning and stuff on the wagon, so go back and read it and see what you think.
Dylan once again defends Space.
Furthermore, @Andrew, how on earth were you reading Jake's explanation of L-1 as a townslip?
This does not seem like partner interaction.
And everyone goes silent.
Do you want to put forward a case on Andrew maybe? When I was scum-reading him earlier, neither you nor Dylan seemed that interested, which worries me slightly.
He was null to me earlier, and now I'm trying to avoid just giving in to OMGUS. Do you remember where your case was? I'll go back and read it.
Going back is more sensible... no way can I quote a bunch of useful things in one post from my phone just now.
He was mostly scum-reading me for behaving in what I believed was a totally justified townie way and being super careless about leaving me at L-1.
How long now till deadline? Am about to be offline for a while unless it's really soon, if signal is even cooperating...
Ok, I just went back and read 5ish pages and didn't really see a case on him except for you defending yourself. I try not to base reads just on differences of opinions, and that seems to be the biggest thing I see with Andrew.
D2 ends 6 pm forum time this evening.
your entire scum read against me is based on opinions. If not then please say what it is based on because honestly I've asked everybody multiple times and no one can give me a response.
Literally every read in this game is based on opinions. Excluding PR gained info, literally everything everyone does in this game is based on opinions and interpretations of what has been said. My opinion is that you have seemed somewhat scummy. But personally, I am more motivated by the POE I laid out earlier that narrowed it down to Robz, Joseph, and you for today, because I think lynching one of the 3 of you is our best chance for hitting scum. And since no one apparently wants to lynch Robz--who just showed up--because of his complete absence, you or Joseph seem like the best bets to me.
PPE 1
This once again looks townie for Joseph, scummy for Robz.
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Wow straight into the setup talk.
That's unusual.
I'll try and contribute today, although my time management skills are poor.
Also, a few more people should vote PPS just in case he's bluffing about his conviction that PPS is scum this game.
Sure. Vote: PPS
Wagon
Ping?
Where is everyone?
Did schadd kill you all off and forget to tell me? :-(
I've been V/LA.
And well that hammer was confusing lol.
And why is LL the NK?
Will SA lynch SA?
Anyway, I'll catch up on this later today. I hammered because I thought there was a high likelihood of PPS actually being scum but I guess was wrong. LaLight seems like a strange kill.
I also thought there was a high likelihood. I think hammering in that situation is pretty townie, actually.
I'm still not a huge fan of SA's naysaying. Vote: Space
Yh I'm not convinced that outing all our PRs is a good idea.
Space, why do you like this idea?
Both Robz and Joseph are against my claiming plan, which at this point is clear that it is a bad situation for scum if we do claim rolecop, and the fact that Dylan posted the way he did was probably pointing to his partner that I was the rolecop. So I think people who were against the claiming plan are probably scummier.
So, D2:
#286- Space suggested rolecop claim, as people had suggested D2 was a good time for it. Possibly just scum trying to fish for info though.
Gkrieg & I both thought LL was an odd kill- although I posted more thought out thoughts about that now
#299 - scum do know the setup, but they don't know who the rolecop is. It'd be nice not to give scum an easy lynch
Some people then pseudo-claimed some results for last night. Robz didn't want to do it, which I think is possibly a tad scummy. I would have done it had I been paying proper attention at the time.
#320- Andrew notices that the D1 wagon was crap. Yes it was crap, but are you just trying to make yourself look good for not being on it?
#321- No I probably wouldn't NK LL after finding him scummy. Although I can't remember the last time I NKed anyone, so....
So the Space wagon is Robz, Jake, Andrew. Assuming Space is good, there's at least 1 scum there. And I'm kind of tentatively leaning towards Space being good right now.
I like my vote on Andrew for now.
PPE: 2-4
So if Joseph is scum, then this really was a scumslip.
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Also the Rolecop claiming sounds fun and exciting but is probably not a good idea. I just looked at the setups and and it doesn't seem to have much benefit in any of them.
Also, I don't understand setup 6. Town gets a Watcher and a Rolecop, but there's nothing for the Rolecop to rolecop except the Watcher? These seems like a real bad one for town.
Vote: PPS
I did not realize it was L-1 when I voted for PPS.
I support hammering him.
In the interest of actually protecting PR identities, other people need to actually post results that are more than "vanilla" "saw nothing/no result" so in the event someone actually gets a non-vanilla/saw-nothing result, they aren't the only ones sticking out and basically revealing themselves. If everyone does the same thing except the actual PR, this is a self-defeating exercise. I know the plain results are the most likely outcomes, but we do need variety in our claims I would think.
If I were a rolecop, I would have targeted Joseph and gotten jailkeeper.
If I were a tracker, I would have targeted gkrieg and seen him target SA.
If I were a watcher, I would have targeted Robz and seen Jake target him.
Which is why this is a silly exercise and I'm not participating in it.
Intent to hammer Jake
And then Robz puts intent to hammer on Jake. I think this is hard to read. Robz's whole end of D2 reads townie to me.
Mehhh I really don't like the Jake lynch. What else can we do?
And then he does this and votes for Dylan. Not something I see a partner doing honestly.
I'm fine with Dylan or Andrew. It's close but I probably narrowly prefer Dylan.
This is also not what I expect Robz to do to their partner.
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Ok, so I stopped voting for WW every RVS because someone says it's boring and apparently I'm self-conscious.
You know what's even more boring? Voting for me, ever! You've done it so many times, and gotten me mislynched so many times that there's just no novelty value in it any more... :-P
Also, a few more people should vote PPS just in case he's bluffing about his conviction that PPS is scum this game.
Vote: LaLight
She's a bit scummy
This was before his pps vote obviously. Would Joseph NK LL after supposedly scumreading him?
Vote: SA
The post you're quoting is #155, which is early. Joseph later said at #254 (which is like twice as far into the game, given that the first game post was #53) that PPS and I were his top scumreads. I already explained my issue with how much logic-twisting Joseph must've had to do for that to make sense back at #301, but that's not relevant just here.
Anyway, combine that with the fact that LL had been townslipping to various degrees, and that several people had declared a town read on him (gkrieg@#131, Robz@#145), I think he's not that weird an NK even for a scum-team containing Joseph. After all, there are presumably two scums directing things in their QT, so the NK decision wouldn't be made by Josef in isolation anyway.
Space trying to take away from what I call a townslip from Joseph.
People, this game is sloooooow!
Let's take a look at the player list:
pingpongsam -- lynched. He has excuses for being quiet. Or for ranting at us all in the speccy.
Joseph2302 -- Is now missing long enough to be prodable, and was barely engaged earlier anyway.
JaketheBaseballGod22 -- Uncharacteristically quiet, which didn't actually imply good things in ZM23 (though I'd welcome it if this is a turn of events in which town!Jake is equally able to play maturely now).
Robz888 -- Appears to be genuinely VLA, but certainly has issues to account for when he's back.
Dylan32 -- Seems to be talking the most sense out of any of you lot.
gkrieg13 -- has promised some extra explaining later.
LaLight -- NKd. Several people did the "wow, weird kill" dance, but our vets were townreading him D1, so how weird is it really?
SpaceAnemone -- Spaaaaaaace :-)
AndrewisFTTW -- His posting history shows he's active elsewhere, but is choosing not to respond to me and to leave his unannounced L-1 vote on me.
Dylan is townie in their reads list...
ummmm just because your not "the biggest scum threat in this game right now" (not sure about this) doesn't mean your not scum.
I'm the person who's one vote away from being lynched right now, thanks specifically to Andrew. He can just about get away with putting me to an unannounced L-1 by claiming this is his careless laid-back game-play and he didn't realise. However leaving me there now that he's admitted he's fully aware that it's L-1, is not good play for town at all unless he actually thinks I'm really a threat. OTOH, if he's scum waiting for a derphammer, it makes much more sense.
Also, I think gkreig's point about your retort not coming from a very towny-seeming place is also accurate.
I don't really like Space's obsession with this unannounced L-1 thing. I mean the same thing happened to PPS, where he was at L-1 a couple of times.
Ha, no way am I supporting a Dylan lynch just now.
vote: Jake to see whether there's traction there, since I'm still hesitant to push Robz in absentia.
Though with this little engagement in a game that's shaping up to be pretty shots so far, I do think replacement is an option Robz and schadd could maybe consider...
This is their reaction to Dylan quickly becoming a viable vote.
And everyone goes silent.
Do you want to put forward a case on Andrew maybe? When I was scum-reading him earlier, neither you nor Dylan seemed that interested, which worries me slightly.
This is scummy from Space.
Archive.. here for ~10 mins. I'm willing to follow the claimed PRs of they agree on a lynch.. is Dylan a go?
Their response to the Dylan wagon.
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First of all, I apologise. 64 posts in 3 game days is appalling from me. I think Space is town. Town that's annoyed because nobody has contributed that much this game. Which is a totally legit assessment of the game.
thread locked
D2 Final Vote Count
JaketheBaseballGod22 (2): Dylan32, SpaceAnemone
Dylan32 (4): JaketheBaseballGod22, Joseph2302, AndrewisFTTW, Robz888
AndrewisFTTW (1): gkrieg13
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 2 ends Saturday, April 1st at 6pm forum time.
So Space was off-wagon yesterday, Andrew was 3rd on it, and Robz hammered it. There's probably a bus there, which leans me towards Andrew, as he voted earlier, which scum tend to do.
I'm not sure how this long post seemed to go through Dylan not liking me into me being the goon. Logic seems severely flawed to me.
I was townie and around when it counted: lynching scum Dylan. You ended the day voting for the Doctor, if I remember correctly...
One townie act in the game, that would be super-easy for a bussing scum player to perform for town-cred... you can see why I'm sceptical, right?
I think it should be fairly straightforward to deduce that I am likely town at this point.
Why? What townie things have you done?
Besides being a pivotal vote for Dylan instead of Andrew? I think you'll find my play here mirrors almost exactly my play from Mafia 96, which is now over, in which I was also a Vanilla Townie.
True but if you are good, you chose one scum over another. Or you could be scum choosing scum over town for the cred. Like I already suggested.
This could be taken a couple of ways:
If he's scum, he would've been testing the waters on a mislynch of Gkrieg and me. Gkrieg and me didn't work out, so he was about to hammer Jake until he claimed. He then votes his partner but switches back to me even after he says he narrowly prefers Dylan. So I guess he would be doing this so he could say he was one of the original people to push Dylan's lynch in case he gets lynched (which he did say today already), but he still wants to try someone else, hence the sheeping of Gkrieg and the vote on me. He only hammers Dylan when it's clear nobody else is getting lynched.
Town!Robz doesn't have any solid reads by deadline. He has changed his mind about SA, had a slight scum read on Gkrieg but no real case on him, and so it doesn't really matter to him who is lynched. He votes for Gkrieg but sees there's no support for a Gkrieg lynch, so he tries a wagon on me since Gkrieg is pushing it, etc. etc.
I think Robz is capable of either of these scenarios, but I think the town one makes a little more sense, especially since he wasn't around for most of the day and thus it would've been harder to create reads. And scum!Robz would still have to back up his reads with something. Scum doesn't just randomly pick a member of town and completely fabricate a case, there's usually some truth as to whether they think something is scummy or not and they go off of that. Instead, Robz just laid it out on the table and said he didn't really have any solid reads and the couple reads he did have weren't based on much. I believe him. I also think the way he acted towards Dylan at the end of yesterday doesn't really make sense if they were partners. I think he would either have a solid townread on him or a solid scumread. He would either be completely against the lynch or all for it. Instead he's kind of all over the place. So I don't see the scum narrative for it.
So Andrew think Robz is town? That's confusing, since I'm reasonably sure they aren't both town.
Last game, schadd read me really well and was town, though I didn't believe him. So in the spirit of making up for that, I'm going to town read Andrew for reading me well here.
Vote: Joseph
If gkrieg's quite sure it's not Joseph, and decides to vote Andrew, would you sheep the IC?
Scum read: increasing.
An interesting question, and a decent enough response from Robz. Slight town read, as scum!Robz probably cares less about who is lynched (so long as it isn't him)
I really don't think Space is scum, by the way. Which means the only options are Andrew or Joseph.
I'll actually lynch either one of them, I guess, as long as we commit to lynching both of them in some order. We have enough days left to do that.
Ditto the same logic from my perspective. gkrieg & I are town, I'm reasonably sure Space is, so we lynch one of {Andrew, Robz} now, and lynch the other one tomorrow.
Right, so the first thing I did was to look at Dylan's play, and patterns of voting behaviour around him and the three unknowns (Andrew, Joseph, Robz).
In D1, Dylan voted Joseph at #189, and then didn't move his vote for the rest of the day. If he didn't take the opportunity to move onto the PPS wagon, I think it probably means that his partner was already on the wagon, since PPS sat at L-1 from #209 up to #279 (with a four-post break after PPS himself unvoted and before Jake joined)... if neither scum was on the wagon at that point, I think there's a strong chance one of them would have hammered. That kind of gives town points to Andrew, since Joseph and Robz were on the PPS wagon.
In D2, Robz voted for me right out of the box, and Andrew left me at L-1 from #321. I stayed there till Jake moved his vote at #379, and Dylan didn't hammer in that time. Now, Dylan, gkrieg and I had established a sort of mutual townread by then, so him hammering me might have been a bit too tricky to justify. I also think it's weak evidence for the other scum maybe also being on my tail at that point: that's either Robz or Andrew, so this time the possible-townpoints go to Joseph (who also didn't hammer me, which is also positive).
Dylan joined a Joseph wagon at #386, and I took Joseph to L-1 at #393. He didn't stop being on L-1 till gkrieg unvoted at #413, so I think that's also possibly a non-partner point for Joseph. The way Dylan moved to Jake at #439 also feels in hindsight very much like a scum looking for another mislynch opportunity now that the town wagon they're on is crumbling.
At #550, it's interesting, because Joseph puts Jake to L-1 on the wagon that Dylan started, and Jake doesn't get hammered by the other scum, so that's a bit of a scum-point for Joseph. OTOH, Robz does post intent in there at #553.
There's a lot going on after that, which is a deadline thing in general, but also a common thing Robz does to confuse town when he's scum. He's more noncommittal about the whole Andrew vs Dylan thing than he implies after the fact, really, because while he seems to say he's more open to lynching Dylan than lynching Andrew, his actions are kind of delay tactics, because he doesn't just pick Dylan and run with it, he comes in late and hammers.
Okay, so that ended up a bit more general than a pure Dylan voting re-read, but I feel pretty confident that my scumminess ordering goes Robz > Andrew > Joseph at this point.
So Dylan voted for me a lot, which makes me seem towny? Seems decent enough to me.
Okay, so this is going to be 10-min exercise in picking out things that make me uncomfortable about Andrew's play, since he's complaining there's no scum narrative for what he's done.
1) Ho opens with a load of nonsense stuff, like voting a non-existent player and voting his one stated townread. That kind of play is really just designed to signal that he's a player we might not get straight answers from, and to me it's a bad first impression.
2) There's also the "I'll be here making stupid comments in the meantime." thing at #83. Weirdly, he seemed to be talking some sense in between. Oh, and then #90: "And NOW I will resume the stupid comments." He's definitely working to establish himself as the type of person who won't let people take things too seriously, and as someone who prefers to take things seriously, he's really ringing my warning bells. None of this is directly scummy. Maybe it just explains some omgus on my part. I did deliberately say I'm looking for things that make me uncomfortable (rather than things that are definitely scum-indicative).
3) #127 -- talks about reading M88, which was covert affairs, and seems to be trying to bait Jake slightly. This is not pro-town.
4) He's making a few slight pushes at Jake. #219 is another one.
5) #252: backs Robz's entirely wrong interpretation of why I was trying to question Jake.
6) #294: still legitimizing Robz's lies about me!
7) #321: Makes up a whole narrative about why I was voting for PPS, which is utterly wrong. This was no case of "here's a scum narrative and here's a town narrative", it was a pure "SA did this set of things and look isn't it scummy" narrative. Votes for me, putting me up to an unannounced L-1.
8 ) #338: Tries to find a load of things to disagree with in what I've been saying. Seems to lose interest when I show that I'm making actual sense, but he doesn't move his vote.
9) #345: This is deliberate taunting! That post felt very annoying, because he's clearly flaunting the fact that he has the power to unvote, but has "chosen" not to pay any attention to my predicament. Then apologises about the L-1 without doing anything about the vote, which very much just rubs it in. The line a few posts later about "Speaking of slow, the line in this museum is ridiculous" (#351) seems designed for much the same effect of showing off about how much he's deliberately ignoring the fact I'm actually worried about being left at L-1. This is definitely not a pleasant or concerned townie way to play.
10) #371: Still deliberately voting.
11) #375: Now we add condescending to the list...
12) #400: partial case on gkrieg.
13) #427: Reacts with a snarky "sure, single me out" response when I ask why nobody was considering Andrew in the question of whether to lynch Robz or Jake. It genuinely seemed like both Dylan and gkrieg had just forgotten about Andrew's existence in their PoE. In Dylan's case, he's engineered his narrative so that he's only talking about the on-wagon set, so neatly gets to leave Andrew off. The fact that Andrew himself didn't see the clear fact that he was missing from any of this could actually be a bit of a scumslip, since in his mind as scum, he'd only be trying to frame people who're actually town.
14) #432: Urgh, why does he keep picking at me in a critical way. It's not like I don't justify every single thing he picks at. It just feels like he's trying to find something to frame me with, having realised that he can make me annoyed and defensive, since I already know I tend to get mislynched more often when I get defensive (but it's a hard habit to break).
15) #484: reads Jake's post as a townslip. This would be easier to do for a scum who knows for sure that Jake is town, since to town it actually doesn't look much like a townslip at all. Even Dylan picked up on that a few posts later.
Anyway, it's been way more than 10 mins, and I really have to go to bed now, so I'll finish this another time if more scumreadable things are required. I'm not going to be posting much tomorrow because I'll be in London restricted to phone posting while doing fun stuff for my birthday :-) Home on Sunday afternoon sometime.
Some pretty good arguments there. I kind of agree with a number of them. Andrew has been contributing a lot, but some of the posts have been leaning in the scummy direction.
And a lot of what Andrew has done in the last 2-3 days has been super-defensive.
PPE: 7? (all of gkriegs)
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Alright then, next time I'm town I'll make sure to not put any effort into the game whatsoever. Maybe everyone will townread me then!
That's not fair! Joseph is doing that and I'm scum reading him.
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That might be one of the worst (as in least in-depth), quickest rereads of a game I've done.
However, I think the only 2 possible scum candidates are Andrew & Robz.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I prefer Andrew lynch today.
If I'm wrong, then Robz lynch tomorrow would win it for us too.
Alright then, next time I'm town I'll make sure to not put any effort into the game whatsoever. Maybe everyone will townread me then!
That's not fair! Joseph is doing that and I'm scum reading him.
I'm not delibrately doing it.
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Vote: Andrew is my preference
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Vote: Joseph
The scumslip looks more like an actual scumslip in hindsight.
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Honestly to me all of these votes are scummy. As scummy as I find Robz's vote, he is the ONLY ONE TO PROVIDE A REASON FOR VOTING PPS. Obviously not everyone on the wagon is scum. So I just want those who are town on the wagon to know that there is nothing about this wagon that was pro-town. It makes it more difficult for us to analyze the wagon and scumhunt and thus could very well lead to more mislynches. But enough berating, although I do hope you all feel bad now.
Out of all of these I find SA's and Joseph's votes to be the scummiest. SA's vote was RVS and they never even commented on pps's "claim" besides joking about it as a reason to join his wagon. So SA pretty much voted randomly, encouraged more random votes, and then just went along with the wagon because hey, as long as they're town it's totally cool if they get lynched right?
Joseph's vote.... uhhhh.... well there's nothing to go off of besides a vote. Also while rereading I found this:
Vote: LaLight
She's a bit scummy
This was before his pps vote obviously. Would Joseph NK LL after supposedly scumreading him?
Vote: SA
This is slightly scummy from Andrew. Just saying that everyone on the PPS wagon was scummy because he can conveniently cast doubt on everyone on the wagon while keeping doubt off of Dylan.
I guess what I should've said is "anti-town" instead of "scummy". I didn't find everyone on the wagon scummy, I just thought the votes themselves didn't give us any information that could help us find scum later.
Alright then, next time I'm town I'll make sure to not put any effort into the game whatsoever. Maybe everyone will townread me then!
That's not fair! Joseph is doing that and I'm scum reading him.
No no no! This wasn't directed towards anyone else! I just meant for me personally.
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And yes Joseph I'm super defensive. I can't help it! I even tried to not be so defensive this game and it didn't work, it's just how I play. I even linked to a couple games earlier where I was very defensive as town.
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I don't think I want to lynch Andrew anymore.
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So Space was off-wagon yesterday, Andrew was 3rd on it, and Robz hammered it. There's probably a bus there, which leans me towards Andrew, as he voted earlier, which scum tend to do.
??
Vote: Joseph
The scumslip looks more like an actual scumslip in hindsight.
You mean the rolecop thing? Still not really buying it.
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So Space was off-wagon yesterday, Andrew was 3rd on it, and Robz hammered it. There's probably a bus there, which leans me towards Andrew, as he voted earlier, which scum tend to do.
??
Vote: Joseph
The scumslip looks more like an actual scumslip in hindsight.
You mean the rolecop thing? Still not really buying it.
Yes, the role cop thing. Also, looking again, Dylan's interactions with Joseph about the scumslip seem very scummy. Like, Dylan kind of obsesses over it, votes Joseph over it, argues that Joseph is scum, but Joseph doesn't really fight back against Dylan. That could just be because of how checked out Joseph was, I guess, but I'm betting not.
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Gkrieg, can I ask you to read Dylan and Joseph's posts from #386 thru #439 and see if you pick up on them being partners?
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Request: Vote Count
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Request: Vote Count
Robz is voting for Joseph.
Joseph is voting for Andrew.
Andrew is voting for Space.
gkrieg and Space are not voting.
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Time to get moving, people. Better to lynch wrong then not lynch at all. Not voting right now is not good.
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Gkrieg, can I ask you to read Dylan and Joseph's posts from #386 thru #439 and see if you pick up on them being partners?
Can you look at his townslip on the LaLight kill and tell me he faked it as scum?
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Vote Count 3.5
AndrewisFTTW (1): Joseph2302
SpaceAnemone (1): AndrewisFTTW
Joseph2302 (1): Robz888
not voting (2): SpaceAnemone, gkrieg13
With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day 3 ends Monday, April 10th at 6pm forum time. this is in 2hr
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Gkrieg, can I ask you to read Dylan and Joseph's posts from #386 thru #439 and see if you pick up on them being partners?
Can you look at his townslip on the LaLight kill and tell me he faked it as scum?
Where? What post?
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Gkrieg, I have no idea what you are referring to, this alleged Joseph "townslip" relating to LL. I see you reference it later, but I can't actually find it.
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I have looked and looked and I can't find a post where Joseph slips, in any way, regarding LL.
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I don't know how much longer I'm going to be around, people.
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Request: Vote Count
Robz is voting for Joseph.
Joseph is voting for Andrew.
Andrew is voting for Space.
gkrieg and Space are not voting.
So the 2 towniest people aren't voting. Please vote
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Request: Vote Count
Robz is voting for Joseph.
Joseph is voting for Andrew.
Andrew is voting for Space.
gkrieg and Space are not voting.
So the 2 towniest people aren't voting. Please vote
*Doesn't even include self among 2 towniest people*
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I guess Gkrieg still doesn't want to lynch Joseph. Robz would you be willing to switch to Space?
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Request: Vote Count
Robz is voting for Joseph.
Joseph is voting for Andrew.
Andrew is voting for Space.
gkrieg and Space are not voting.
So the 2 towniest people aren't voting. Please vote
*Doesn't even include self among 2 towniest people*
Everyone knows gkrieg is town, and basically everyone thinks Space is town.
I'm thinking for the table here
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I guess Gkrieg still doesn't want to lynch Joseph. Robz would you be willing to switch to Space?
I really don't want to. In fact, I would sooner join Joseph in lynching you.
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Request: Vote Count
Robz is voting for Joseph.
Joseph is voting for Andrew.
Andrew is voting for Space.
gkrieg and Space are not voting.
So the 2 towniest people aren't voting. Please vote
*Doesn't even include self among 2 towniest people*
Everyone knows gkrieg is town, and basically everyone thinks Space is town.
I'm thinking for the table here
It came out like you were thinking from the perspective of scum, which makes sense, because it's what you are.
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Cards on the table: I'm not moving. I'm voting Joseph. That's it.
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Vote: Joseph
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L-1
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Self-hammer for the town win, Joseph.
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I really think it is between Space and Robz in my head at this point.
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I really think it is between Space and Robz in my head at this point.
You did not answer my earlier question: what is this town slip I am supposed to be putting so much stock in?
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I really think it is between Space and Robz in my head at this point.
You did not answer my earlier question: what is this town slip I am supposed to be putting so much stock in?
His opening post to D2.
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Ping?
Where is everyone?
Did schadd kill you all off and forget to tell me? :-(
I've been V/LA.
And well that hammer was confusing lol.
And why is LL the NK?
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He asked why LL would be the night kill, which is something scum can only fake, or it is a town slip.
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He asked why LL would be the night kill, which is something scum can only fake, or it is a town slip.
That's your idea of a townslip???
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That's not a townslip at all. The most inexperienced, amateur scum can compose a six word sentence speculating about the nightkill in a wake that makes the scum look like town. It's not a slip. You're torturing the definition of the word "slip"!
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Space, ignore what the IC says and listen to me, one of your top suspects. Vote for Joseph!
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Yes, but I don't think it is something Joseph would actually do as scum. I just don't see it. I will of course hammer him if you or Space doesn't happen.
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I am not scum.
^Look everybody, I town slipped!
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I am not scum.
^Look everybody, I town slipped!
Oh come on, you know this is different from that.
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Yes, but I don't think it is something Joseph would actually do as scum. I just don't see it. I will of course hammer him if you or Space doesn't happen.
Why? It's the most basic thing that ANYONE would do as scum. It's like, what does scum do on Day 2: Step one, sign onto f.ds, step 2, check to see if anything funny happened other than the nightkill going through, step 3, make statements disassociating oneself from the nightkill.
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I don't think it's something Joseph wouldn't do as scum, and I don't think there is a single player for whom you could say, this player would not do that as scum, because it's such a basic, by the books thing.
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Yes, but I don't think it is something Joseph would actually do as scum. I just don't see it. I will of course hammer him if you or Space doesn't happen.
Why? It's the most basic thing that ANYONE would do as scum. It's like, what does scum do on Day 2: Step one, sign onto f.ds, step 2, check to see if anything funny happened other than the nightkill going through, step 3, make statements disassociating oneself from the nightkill.
Because that is just not how Joseph plays as scum.
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I guess Gkrieg still doesn't want to lynch Joseph. Robz would you be willing to switch to Space?
I really don't want to. In fact, I would sooner join Joseph in lynching you.
I don't really want to lynch Space either
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Why do people not think it's Space?
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Do people really think scum tries to bus instead of defend their partners when there are only 2 of them?
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Back now. Re-reading things, commenting more shortly.
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Do people really think scum tries to bus instead of defend their partners when there are only 2 of them?
I mean yeah, that makes sense. I guess I just like looking for edge cases or unlikely scenarios. Not sure we have the votes for SA though.
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vote: SA
Will switch to Joseph by deadline if necessary
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Fine, Vote: Space. Second guessing why I have any reason to think it's not Space.
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vote: SA
Will switch to Joseph by deadline if necessary
Vote: Robz
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vote: SA
Will switch to Joseph by deadline if necessary
Vote: Robz
Vote: Robz is better than voting Space IMO
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That was L-1 I think?
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I'm at L-1 and Space is at L-1.
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Vote Count 3.6
Joseph2302 (1): AndrewisFTTW
SpaceAnemone (2): gkrieg13, Robz888
Robz888 (2): SpaceAnemone, Joseph2302
With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day 3 ends Monday, April 10th at 6pm forum time. this is in 33min
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vote: SA
Will switch to Joseph by deadline if necessary
Where did your "Space or Robz" thing from a little while ago go? Have you just decided Robz is town now?
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vote: SA
Will switch to Joseph by deadline if necessary
Where did your "Space or Robz" thing from a little while ago go? Have you just decided Robz is town now?
SUCH a scummy post.
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Dylan voted Joseph almost until deadline. Space and Dylan townread eachother almost until deadline. Robz was pretty carefree about lynching Dylan, which makes him town I think. I just don't know which narrative fits better. I guess one is bussing hard (Joseph) and one is defending subtly (Space). Ultimately I think the latter makes more sense with two scum, as gkrieg said.
Intent to hammer Space
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Joseph why do you have such a strong townread on Space?
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Do people really think scum tries to bus instead of defend their partners when there are only 2 of them?
From over here, it's certain that they do! And I think if you're looking at that section of the game, then Robz's actions come off the worst. He goes from me, where he's sat while being awol for most of D2, tries you, then Andrew (i.e. two probably-higher-value targets than me in terms of game experience) before briefly settling on Dylan at #559 and flitting off again at #575, coming back only to hammer when the Dylan wagon's too big to stop.
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vote: SA
Will switch to Joseph by deadline if necessary
Where did your "Space or Robz" thing from a little while ago go? Have you just decided Robz is town now?
Robz seems townier because he was partially the tipping point for Dylan yesterday. He could've gone with Andrew and gotten him lynched, or gone Dylan, and he chose Dylan.
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Do people really think scum tries to bus instead of defend their partners when there are only 2 of them?
From over here, it's certain that they do! And I think if you're looking at that section of the game, then Robz's actions come off the worst. He goes from me, where he's sat while being awol for most of D2, tries you, then Andrew (i.e. two probably-higher-value targets than me in terms of game experience) before briefly settling on Dylan at #559 and flitting off again at #575, coming back only to hammer when the Dylan wagon's too big to stop.
He could've stayed on Andrew and I think he could've gotten the lynch to go through.
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Seriously people, I'm town! I'm trying to come up with more useful points for the Robz case here, but I need more time.
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Seriously people, I'm town! I'm trying to come up with more useful points for the Robz case here, but I need more time.
You have like 20 minutes
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Well I don't think it is Andrew, so I'm fine having him decide after Space makes their Robz case.
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I do think it is one of them two.
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Do people really think scum tries to bus instead of defend their partners when there are only 2 of them?
From over here, it's certain that they do! And I think if you're looking at that section of the game, then Robz's actions come off the worst. He goes from me, where he's sat while being awol for most of D2, tries you, then Andrew (i.e. two probably-higher-value targets than me in terms of game experience) before briefly settling on Dylan at #559 and flitting off again at #575, coming back only to hammer when the Dylan wagon's too big to stop.
He could've stayed on Andrew and I think he could've gotten the lynch to go through.
You and Robz are the only two people who were voting Andrew in the later parts of D2. Earlier on, Joseph had been the only person on his wagon. I quite possibly would have liked to vote for him, but I was totally signal-less by the end, so I certainly wasn't able to move.
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I mean he could've just not voted for him.
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I think what makes Robz town is after Jake softclaims. Robz was voting me previously but after Jake softclaims he moves to Dylan. There was absolutely no reason for him to switch to his partner there. Yeah he went back and voted me, but why even plant the seed of lynching his partner that late in the day when we almost lynched like three people?
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Especially how he was acting with not much time left.
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Thing 1: Unannounced L-1 on PPS.
Thing 2: Reason for wanting to hammer PPS is that PPS admitted to being scum, i.e. a really flimsy reason.
Thing 3: Total mischaracterization of my play in D1 multiple times (#249, #290) in order to get a scumread on me and vote.
Thing 4: Refusal to engage with the claiming thing gkrieg and I had been pushing. That's scummy because if he'd later wanted to come out as a PR, this sort of exercise really narrows his options and makes faking much more difficult. I think there's also some psychology at work showing himself as being more of a leader if he refuses to go along with pack consensus. Note that he calls it a "silly exercise", but said nothing against it earlier to imply he thought it was unwise for town to pursue.
Thing 5: He makes only one post from #312 and #522. At #522 he's keen not to be replaced, since gkrieg and I have been proposing replacement. My reason for that was that PoE was getting really hard when there's a completely unreadable player. He comes back into the game completely changing his mind (not necessarily scummy, because so much has happened), and guns instead for gkrieg and Andrew.
[Posting this half-list right now since I'm aware we're short on time.]
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The refusing replacement isn't scummy because he did that as town in Fibonacci mafia as well.
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The refusing replacement isn't scummy because he did that as town in Fibonacci mafia as well.
And the rest?
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Andrew you're still here right?
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Yes, reading Space's post.
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Thing 1: Unannounced L-1 on PPS.
This isn't scummy. Scum doesn't do this.
Thing 2: Reason for wanting to hammer PPS is that PPS admitted to being scum, i.e. a really flimsy reason.
So were all of the reasons on PPS.
Thing 3: Total mischaracterization of my play in D1 multiple times (#249, #290) in order to get a scumread on me and vote.
I don't know about this one. Doesn't seem like scum!Robz style.
Thing 4: Refusal to engage with the claiming thing gkrieg and I had been pushing. That's scummy because if he'd later wanted to come out as a PR, this sort of exercise really narrows his options and makes faking much more difficult. I think there's also some psychology at work showing himself as being more of a leader if he refuses to go along with pack consensus. Note that he calls it a "silly exercise", but said nothing against it earlier to imply he thought it was unwise for town to pursue.
I do agree that this is scummy. Still not sure why he was so against it.
Thing 5: He makes only one post from #312 and #522. At #522 he's keen not to be replaced, since gkrieg and I have been proposing replacement. My reason for that was that PoE was getting really hard when there's a completely unreadable player. He comes back into the game completely changing his mind (not necessarily scummy, because so much has happened), and guns instead for gkrieg and Andrew.
[Posting this half-list right now since I'm aware we're short on time.]
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Yes, reading Space's post.
Ok, you are just the one that can hammer, I could only hammer Robz and would do so if you weren't around.
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I agree the pps stuff is suspect, but all of the votes were flimsy.
The other points I disagree with. #3 is opinion. #4 I don't really find that scummy, I don't see the psychology thing either. #5, he was super busy and got caught up and reacted accordingly.
Vote: Space
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I would say my order of scummy now is Robz<<Joseph<<<Andrew
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@gkreig, if Andrew votes me, this will be the umpteenth time you mislynch me.
@Joseph, you still haven't made a decent case on anyone. I really think that if anyone doesn't deserve to win this as scum, it's you, even though I'm really not sure who's what just now. Vote: Joseph.
PPE 2: You all suck. I'm town!
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@gkreig, if Andrew votes me, this will be the umpteenth time you mislynch me.
@gkrieg, if Andrew votes me, this will be the umpteenth time you mislynch me.
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Sorry Space! You are just so lynchable. It is probably Robz then.
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And here I was thinking we had just won this thing. Awesome.
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Well at least I'll be dead for tomorrow.
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I promise it is nothing personal Space!
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Sorry Space! You are just so lynchable. It is probably Robz then.
Is this strictly POE? I mean I know why you think Joseph is town but I just don't see Robz watching his partner go out in that way.
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@gkreig, if Andrew votes me, this will be the umpteenth time you mislynch me.
@gkrieg, if Andrew votes me, this will be the umpteenth time you mislynch me.
Fuck sake. We had this game won
Trust gkrieg, Space + Joseph, lynch Robz/Andrew and lynch the other one tomorrow.
Now we're gonna be in shit trouble. I've never one a LYLO
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Sorry Space! You are just so lynchable. It is probably Robz then.
Is this strictly POE? I mean I know why you think Joseph is town but I just don't see Robz watching his partner go out in that way.
I guess it is POE.
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@gkreig, if Andrew votes me, this will be the umpteenth time you mislynch me.
@gkrieg, if Andrew votes me, this will be the umpteenth time you mislynch me.
Fuck sake. We had this game won
Trust gkrieg, Space + Joseph, lynch Robz/Andrew and lynch the other one tomorrow.
Now we're gonna be in shit trouble. I've never one a LYLO
Yes yes remember my earlier plan was to lynch you and Andrew in either order, which apparently would have worked.
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D3 Final Vote Count
SpaceAnemone (3): gkrieg13, Robz888, AndrewisFTTW
Robz888 (2): SpaceAnemone, Joseph2302
With 5 alive, it took 3 to lynch.
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team, i know things are difficult, and really, once there's really only the 5 of you left, you can't really do anything else than, like, poking each other with your detectoprods and whatnot. and lord knows how good those things' results are. but i somehow didn't think i would need to articulate this: stabbing up our pet anemone is just not gonna help anybody
now we have to wait for another meteor to bring us one again
gah
SpaceAnemone has been lynched! they were a bathroom hacker, a vanilla townie!
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Night 3 Starts.
(https://wiki.mafiascum.net/images/1/1a/PhaseIcon(Night).png)
!!!NOTICE!!! if all 4 remaining players say "agree" in their QTs, i will end the night early.
otherwise, please submit all night actions by Wednesday, April 12th at 6pm forum time.
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ah, this is one of the veterans. hell of a track record. legend has it that, in the great war between the nomes and the grefons, he correctly called the bad guys to be the whehelons. which was great, because it also served as a reminder that the whehelons existed. it should be pretty obvious why we gave him the fingerprinting enchantment a while back.
this one's gonna be tough to file away.
gkrieg13 has been killed in the night! he was a wizard of fingerprinting, a town rolecop!
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Welp, here we are. I blame myself. Myself and gkrieg. Mostly gkrieg. (Kidding!)
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Day 4 Starts.
(http://wiki.mafiascum.net/images/d/d6/PhaseIcon%28Day%29.png)
Vote Count 4.0
not voting (3): Joseph2302, Robz888, AndrewisFTTW
With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch. Day 4 ends Tuesday, April 18th at 8pm forum time.
thread had been officially unlocked after 848, just putting this here for formatting reasons
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Welp, here we are. I blame myself. Myself and gkrieg. Mostly gkrieg. (Kidding!)
Well maybe if we hadn't killed Space, this game would've been easier. She was definitely towny.
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D3 Final Vote Count
SpaceAnemone (3): gkrieg13, Robz888, AndrewisFTTW
Robz888 (2): SpaceAnemone, Joseph2302
With 5 alive, it took 3 to lynch.
Oh, so you were both on the lynch? Can't get that much info from it then :-(
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That lynch was so bad.....
I'll try to post more this evening (UK time)
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Well this is quieter than expected. Andrew? What's on your mind?
I have to admit I'm pretty inclined to follow through on my original plan, which was to just lynch Joseph. Though I should probably re-read Andrew first.
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Sorry, super busy all day and all night last night, just woke up.
I still think Robz is town based off the Dylan lynch. I just see now reason why scum would bus his partner like that so close to the deadline when he really didn't have to. There was no guarantee that Dylan would be lynched at that point and he could have just as easily pushed my lynch. It really doesn't add up. But at the very least I owe it to Space and gkrieg to reread Robz a little bit, so I'll do that now.
Joseph's posts near deadline yesterday were pretty much all "I think Space is town" or "Space is a bad lynch". Today they're "We shouldnt've killed Space", and "That lynch was so bad". So he's trying to distance himself from the lynch but didn't really put in much effort to stop it. It looks like he's now trying to use the fact that he is the only one alive who was off the wagon to his advantage by insisting that we were wrong and that we should've listened to him.
I gotta say I'm inclined to lynch Joseph as well. But yeah, I'll reread Robz real quick.
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Well this is quieter than expected. Andrew? What's on your mind?
I have to admit I'm pretty inclined to follow through on my original plan, which was to just lynch Joseph. Though I should probably re-read Andrew first.
Please don't do that.
It would be a big mistake.
I've been useless, but I'm not scum
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Sorry, super busy all day and all night last night, just woke up.
I still think Robz is town based off the Dylan lynch. I just see now reason why scum would bus his partner like that so close to the deadline when he really didn't have to. There was no guarantee that Dylan would be lynched at that point and he could have just as easily pushed my lynch. It really doesn't add up. But at the very least I owe it to Space and gkrieg to reread Robz a little bit, so I'll do that now.
Joseph's posts near deadline yesterday were pretty much all "I think Space is town" or "Space is a bad lynch". Today they're "We shouldnt've killed Space", and "That lynch was so bad". So he's trying to distance himself from the lynch but didn't really put in much effort to stop it. It looks like he's now trying to use the fact that he is the only one alive who was off the wagon to his advantage by insisting that we were wrong and that we should've listened to him.
I gotta say I'm inclined to lynch Joseph as well. But yeah, I'll reread Robz real quick.
I thought Space was town, and in that case we should've lynched one of you two yesterday, and the other one today.
I'm still confused how I've gone from being towny (IC spent most of yesterday saying I was probably town) to being the prime scum target
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I know this is D2 but I just can't see why scum!Robz would ever do this:
I'm fine with Dylan or Andrew. It's close but I probably narrowly prefer Dylan.
I mean it's possible he would do it to distance himself from a Dylan lynch later, in which case bravo! But it's such a huge risk.
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Sorry, super busy all day and all night last night, just woke up.
I still think Robz is town based off the Dylan lynch. I just see now reason why scum would bus his partner like that so close to the deadline when he really didn't have to. There was no guarantee that Dylan would be lynched at that point and he could have just as easily pushed my lynch. It really doesn't add up. But at the very least I owe it to Space and gkrieg to reread Robz a little bit, so I'll do that now.
Joseph's posts near deadline yesterday were pretty much all "I think Space is town" or "Space is a bad lynch". Today they're "We shouldnt've killed Space", and "That lynch was so bad". So he's trying to distance himself from the lynch but didn't really put in much effort to stop it. It looks like he's now trying to use the fact that he is the only one alive who was off the wagon to his advantage by insisting that we were wrong and that we should've listened to him.
I gotta say I'm inclined to lynch Joseph as well. But yeah, I'll reread Robz real quick.
I thought Space was town, and in that case we should've lynched one of you two yesterday, and the other one today.
I'm still confused how I've gone from being towny (IC spent most of yesterday saying I was probably town) to being the prime scum target
I didn't think you were towny. And yes we know you thought Space was town. But you didn't fight their lynch that hard IIRC which makes me think you were fine with it.
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Sorry, super busy all day and all night last night, just woke up.
I still think Robz is town based off the Dylan lynch. I just see now reason why scum would bus his partner like that so close to the deadline when he really didn't have to. There was no guarantee that Dylan would be lynched at that point and he could have just as easily pushed my lynch. It really doesn't add up. But at the very least I owe it to Space and gkrieg to reread Robz a little bit, so I'll do that now.
Joseph's posts near deadline yesterday were pretty much all "I think Space is town" or "Space is a bad lynch". Today they're "We shouldnt've killed Space", and "That lynch was so bad". So he's trying to distance himself from the lynch but didn't really put in much effort to stop it. It looks like he's now trying to use the fact that he is the only one alive who was off the wagon to his advantage by insisting that we were wrong and that we should've listened to him.
I gotta say I'm inclined to lynch Joseph as well. But yeah, I'll reread Robz real quick.
I thought Space was town, and in that case we should've lynched one of you two yesterday, and the other one today.
I'm still confused how I've gone from being towny (IC spent most of yesterday saying I was probably town) to being the prime scum target
The IC was the only one who considered you towny.
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Alright I read through D3 Robz. Didn't find much that's quotable beside him saying he's not moving his vote from Joseph, and then saying he's doubting himself about Space and places a vote on Space. I think he just understood that we needed a lynch and gkrieg wasn't budging so something had to give.
Do people really think scum tries to bus instead of defend their partners when there are only 2 of them?
From over here, it's certain that they do! And I think if you're looking at that section of the game, then Robz's actions come off the worst. He goes from me, where he's sat while being awol for most of D2, tries you, then Andrew (i.e. two probably-higher-value targets than me in terms of game experience) before briefly settling on Dylan at #559 and flitting off again at #575, coming back only to hammer when the Dylan wagon's too big to stop.
He could've stayed on Andrew and I think he could've gotten the lynch to go through.
You and Robz are the only two people who were voting Andrew in the later parts of D2. Earlier on, Joseph had been the only person on his wagon. I quite possibly would have liked to vote for him, but I was totally signal-less by the end, so I certainly wasn't able to move.
I addressed this here and elsewhere:
I think what makes Robz town is after Jake softclaims. Robz was voting me previously but after Jake softclaims he moves to Dylan. There was absolutely no reason for him to switch to his partner there. Yeah he went back and voted me, but why even plant the seed of lynching his partner that late in the day when we almost lynched like three people?
And here's Space's case that I briefly responded too but it was like 2 minutes to deadline so I couldn't give it solid answers at the time.
Thing 1: Unannounced L-1 on PPS.
I don't think this is particularly scummy, as I think we both did this this game as well. But even so, it's not something scum!Robz would intentionally do D1 under any circumstance.
Thing 2: Reason for wanting to hammer PPS is that PPS admitted to being scum, i.e. a really flimsy reason.
All the votes were flimsy. This is why I've had trouble picking anything out from D1 every time I go back to reread it, I don't know what I can take seriously because there was no real case on pps.
Thing 3: Total mischaracterization of my play in D1 multiple times (#249, #290) in order to get a scumread on me and vote.
Well I think Robz just misread your tone. It could very easily be taken as you sarcastically arguing against the lynch but I think all you were doing was asking Jake a couple questions because you were curious of his answers. If you're suggesting he intentionally took your questions to mean you were against the wagon then yeah, I could see that. But I think it's much more likely he just misread. I think we all probably did.
Thing 4: Refusal to engage with the claiming thing gkrieg and I had been pushing. That's scummy because if he'd later wanted to come out as a PR, this sort of exercise really narrows his options and makes faking much more difficult. I think there's also some psychology at work showing himself as being more of a leader if he refuses to go along with pack consensus. Note that he calls it a "silly exercise", but said nothing against it earlier to imply he thought it was unwise for town to pursue.
Ok now that I have time to process this yes I can see where you're coming from. Robz only comments on this whole thing after the fact, and if he fakeclaimed there would be nothing for him to contradict. But if he did fakeclaim we would still ask him for results. This is a moot point anyway because we now know the setup and he didn't fakeclaim which means he didn't abstain from the exercise for the sole purpose of fakeclaiming. I don't buy the whole psychology thing you point out as well. Again I see where you're coming from but he didn't try to capitalize on it after that point, so again it's a moot point.
Thing 5: He makes only one post from #312 and #522. At #522 he's keen not to be replaced, since gkrieg and I have been proposing replacement. My reason for that was that PoE was getting really hard when there's a completely unreadable player. He comes back into the game completely changing his mind (not necessarily scummy, because so much has happened), and guns instead for gkrieg and Andrew.
I don't find anything particularly scummy about this play. As I said earlier I think he got caught up and posted his thoughts. I don't think there's much more to it than that.
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Yeah I'm still pretty sold on Joseph. What do you think Robz?
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Yeah I'm still pretty sold on Joseph. What do you think Robz?
I don't know if I'm sold at all, I'm getting some scum vibes from you... but I'm going to hate myself too much if scum!Joseph wins because I ignored my gut two days in a row.
Vote: Joseph
I will not be very surprised if this is the game losing move, by the way.
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Unvote
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Gosh am I nervous about this.
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Yeah I'm still pretty sold on Joseph. What do you think Robz?
I don't know if I'm sold at all, I'm getting some scum vibes from you... but I'm going to hate myself too much if scum!Joseph wins because I ignored my gut two days in a row.
Vote: Joseph
I will not be very surprised if this is the game losing move, by the way.
It's likely to be. But we'll see if Andrew hammers straight away or not
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So you think I'm scum Joseph? Or Robz?
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Joseph is putting in so little effort, I worry he's exactly what he appears: uninterested townie.
But scum can fake being uninterested townie. In a way, it's the easiest thing to do.
-
Vote: Joseph again
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Unvote
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Maybe we could do it this way... why don't you vote first, Andrew. You seem more sure of me being town than I am of you (no offense).
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Vote: Joseph
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Yeah I'm still pretty sold on Joseph. What do you think Robz?
I don't know if I'm sold at all, I'm getting some scum vibes from you... but I'm going to hate myself too much if scum!Joseph wins because I ignored my gut two days in a row.
Vote: Joseph
I will not be very surprised if this is the game losing move, by the way.
It's likely to be. But we'll see if Andrew hammers straight away or not
Why would I not immediately hammer if I was scum?
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I'm not hammering, consciously here, so you know I'm town.
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So yeah. Deal with that, speccy QT that is almost assuredly calling me obv!scum and demanding my lynch. Nope!
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Joseph, if you are town, it's time to get to work convincing me Andrew is scum. (Also, you should go ahead and vote for Andrew.)
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Yeah I'm still pretty sold on Joseph. What do you think Robz?
I don't know if I'm sold at all, I'm getting some scum vibes from you... but I'm going to hate myself too much if scum!Joseph wins because I ignored my gut two days in a row.
Vote: Joseph
I will not be very surprised if this is the game losing move, by the way.
It's likely to be. But we'll see if Andrew hammers straight away or not
Why would I not immediately hammer if I was scum?
At the time Joseph wrote this, if he's town, he doesn't know whether it's you or me who is scum. If I was the scum, you wouldn't necessarily hammer right away.
So this was actually a sensible thing for Joseph to say at the time he said it.
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Ah, I thought he was assuming I'm scum. But anyway, if I was scum I would've quickhammered for the win twice already.
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Ah, I thought he was assuming I'm scum. But anyway, if I was scum I would've quickhammered for the win twice already.
Did you really have the opportunity? I'm not sure you did.
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Joseph, if you are town, it's time to get to work convincing me Andrew is scum. (Also, you should go ahead and vote for Andrew.)
Only if I'm sure that Andrew is scum.
And why wouldn't he have hammered if he is scum? No need to prolong the game
PPE: 1
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Ah, I thought he was assuming I'm scum. But anyway, if I was scum I would've quickhammered for the win twice already.
Did you really have the opportunity? I'm not sure you did.
He had 11 minutes between your vote and unvote, during which time he posted & chose not to hammer
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Ah, I thought he was assuming I'm scum. But anyway, if I was scum I would've quickhammered for the win twice already.
Did you really have the opportunity? I'm not sure you did.
Hey, I got nothing going on today. If I was scum I'd be hitting that refresh button every 10 seconds or so trying to end the game.
Joseph, if you are town, it's time to get to work convincing me Andrew is scum. (Also, you should go ahead and vote for Andrew.)
Only if I'm sure that Andrew is scum.
And why wouldn't he have hammered if he is scum? No need to prolong the game
PPE: 1
He's clearly town, so that leaves you.
Ah, I thought he was assuming I'm scum. But anyway, if I was scum I would've quickhammered for the win twice already.
Did you really have the opportunity? I'm not sure you did.
He had 11 minutes between your vote and unvote, during which time he posted & chose not to hammer
No he voted and unvoted twice within 1 minute or so of eachother.
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He had 11 minutes between your vote and unvote, during which time he posted & chose not to hammer
No he voted and unvoted twice within 1 minute or so of eachother.
Ah okay. So nothing learnt from that then
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Joseph, if you are town, it's time to get to work convincing me Andrew is scum. (Also, you should go ahead and vote for Andrew.)
Only if I'm sure that Andrew is scum.
And why wouldn't he have hammered if he is scum? No need to prolong the game
PPE: 1
Joseph, if I was scum, I would hammer right now for the win, and could have, for the last half an hr. Please pay more attention.
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Furthermore if I was scum I wouldn't come into today with a town read on Robz. That doesn't really make sense at all.
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Furthermore if I was scum I wouldn't come into today with a town read on Robz. That doesn't really make sense at all.
Well, it makes some sense, because you would have known I was inclined to lynch Joseph anyway. Arguably easier than joining Joseph to lynch me... I think.
These are points Joseph should be raising, would be great if he would try.
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Furthermore if I was scum I wouldn't come into today with a town read on Robz. That doesn't really make sense at all.
Well, it makes some sense, because you would have known I was inclined to lynch Joseph anyway. Arguably easier than joining Joseph to lynch me... I think.
These are points Joseph should be raising, would be great if he would try.
That's true, but I would want to be able to pivot to either one of you. Especially after Space and gkrieg ended the day saying you must be scum and especially since Joseph never showed a preference for either one of us.
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Furthermore if I was scum I wouldn't come into today with a town read on Robz. That doesn't really make sense at all.
Well, it makes some sense, because you would have known I was inclined to lynch Joseph anyway. Arguably easier than joining Joseph to lynch me... I think.
These are points Joseph should be raising, would be great if he would try.
That's true, but I would want to be able to pivot to either one of you. Especially after Space and gkrieg ended the day saying you must be scum and especially since Joseph never showed a preference for either one of us.
Yes, that's true.
But... but... why is scum!Joseph not even trying to sway me?
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Furthermore if I was scum I wouldn't come into today with a town read on Robz. That doesn't really make sense at all.
Well, it makes some sense, because you would have known I was inclined to lynch Joseph anyway. Arguably easier than joining Joseph to lynch me... I think.
These are points Joseph should be raising, would be great if he would try.
That's true, but I would want to be able to pivot to either one of you. Especially after Space and gkrieg ended the day saying you must be scum and especially since Joseph never showed a preference for either one of us.
Yes, that's true.
But... but... why is scum!Joseph not even trying to sway me?
Beats me, he's been pretty non-committal the whole game though so it's not too surprising. Like yesterday he didn't say he would rather vote you over me or vice versa. He just said he didn't want to lynch Space. And today same thing, he was trying to hold onto the idea that you could still be scum. He's playing more like I would if I was scum, trying to keep his options open, not trying to be tied down to a specific read.
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Joseph was here, did not acknowledge things, and left. Ugh. I kinda think if Joseph is town, town maybe can't win this anyway. He should be auto-voting for Andrew at this point...
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I am clearly trying to shift the blame here in all directions, in anticipation of being wrong.
Okay, whatever, Vote: Joseph. Sorry about this guys. I just can't justify voting for Andrew...
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:D
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I'm wrong, aren't I? Let the recriminations begin!
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;D
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Yes, yes. GG. I should have known you were scum for trying too hard today.
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GG.
He had 11 minutes between your vote and unvote, during which time he posted & chose not to hammer
No he voted and unvoted twice within 1 minute or so of eachother.
Ah okay. So nothing learnt from that then
This^ was a townslip.
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GG.
He had 11 minutes between your vote and unvote, during which time he posted & chose not to hammer
No he voted and unvoted twice within 1 minute or so of eachother.
Ah okay. So nothing learnt from that then
This^ was a townslip.
Quote fail on the last one.
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I think that's still a quote fail but whatever, you get the point.
Mafia QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/38Re8Dr7niET
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Dude. gg
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Yet another scum victory, although this one was close.
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that kinda sucked
moddie: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/tPSKLMgNpAc
discussion thingo from way back when: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/inQFSqF3HVsX
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Dylan I think if I was lynched instead of you you would've had a much easier time with this game, unless you got rolecopped. You did great while you were alive, just unlucky that you got lynched I think.
that kinda sucked
moddie: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/tPSKLMgNpAc
discussion thingo from way back when: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/inQFSqF3HVsX
It sucked? You mean you weren't rooting for me?
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I mean, yes, okay, I definitely should have lynched Andrew. I was just so baffled and frustrated by Joseph's play that I didn't want him to win if he was scum. Andrew actually going along with my plan to vote for Joseph and let me clear myself, that should have been such a red flag. Argh I'm so bad at being town.
Hate hate hate hate that I went along with the Space lynch, too. Although I probably would have been mislynched here, if we had lynched Joseph the day before like I wanted.
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congratulations to the scum team, consisting of dylan32, the masqueraded eagloid and mafia tracker, and AndrewisFTTW, the guy with a briefcase full of espionage and mafia goon.
andrew is em vee pee.
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bussing d2/3 is loads better than it has any right to be
bussing d2/3 is loads better than it has any right to be
bussing d2/3 is loads better than it has any right to be
bussing d2/3 is loads better than it has any right to be
bussing d2/3 is loads better than it has any right to be
bussing d2/3 is loads better than it has any right to be
bussing d2/3 is loads better than it has any right to be
bussing d2/3 is loads better than it has any right to be
bussing d2/3 is loads better than it has any right to be
bussing d2/3 is loads better than it has any right to be
bussing d2/3 is loads better than it has any right to be
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Sorry gkrieg, Space, Jake.
Don't remember who else was even playing this game.
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i have a kind-of towntell for robz that i would like to auction off
starting bid is i get to make you vote someone d1 one time
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Sorry gkrieg, Space, Jake.
Don't remember who else was even playing this game.
There was me, who did the worst town job ever
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unfortunately this wasn't a very good field test for the setup
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Sorry gkrieg, Space, Jake.
Don't remember who else was even playing this game.
There was me, who did the worst town job ever
Well, that's true. When you didn't vote for Andrew even though he was 100% confirmed scum to you, it hurt the town.
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Sorry gkrieg, Space, Jake.
Don't remember who else was even playing this game.
There was me, who did the worst town job ever
Well, that's true. When you didn't vote for Andrew even though he was 100% confirmed scum to you, it hurt the town.
I wasn't around
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Well gg scum. I knew Andrew was scum, then I talked myself out of it...
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god i was sure Robz is scum (you can see it in speccy) very well played, Andrew!
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Andrew is on a roll. And Robz not.
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the last normal town game I won was M92. scum gets better. or town gets worse.
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I'm gonna steal your sig format LL. Because I'm bored.
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I'm gonna steal your sig format LL. Because I'm bored.
I have stolen it from Haddock :D
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god i was sure Robz is scum (you can see it in speccy) very well played, Andrew!
Where is the speccy?
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https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/T2UfkjZZcWi3V
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https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/T2UfkjZZcWi3V
Yesss yessss, be gloriously 99% sure I am scum, you are wrong, wrong I say.
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https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/T2UfkjZZcWi3V
Yesss yessss, be gloriously 99% sure I am scum, you are wrong, wrong I say.
I know that now. My reads remain shit
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https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/T2UfkjZZcWi3V
Yesss yessss, be gloriously 99% sure I am scum, you are wrong, wrong I say.
I know that now. My reads remain shit
Still better than mine!
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Very, very well played, Andrew, if I hadn't said that yet. You did a real great job on the second-to-last day.
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Very, very well played, Andrew, if I hadn't said that yet. You did a real great job on the second-to-last day.
Thank you sir.
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I'm gonna steal your sig format LL. Because I'm bored.
Did eevee get MVP in the last game? I thought you got it...
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I'm gonna steal your sig format LL. Because I'm bored.
Did eevee get MVP in the last game? I thought you got it...
M96? TWM got it. I was lynched D3 or so.
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Very, very well played, Andrew, if I hadn't said that yet. You did a real great job on the second-to-last day.
Thank you sir.
I thought you were scum.
I dunno how you got Space lynched on penultimate day.
If you hadn't done that, it would've been easy for me to know scum
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Very, very well played, Andrew, if I hadn't said that yet. You did a real great job on the second-to-last day.
Thank you sir.
I thought you were scum.
I dunno how you got Space lynched on penultimate day.
If you hadn't done that, it would've been easy for me to know scum
I guess I somehow convinced gkrieg to look elsewhere and you guys followed suit.
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Very, very well played, Andrew, if I hadn't said that yet. You did a real great job on the second-to-last day.
Thank you sir.
I thought you were scum.
I dunno how you got Space lynched on penultimate day.
If you hadn't done that, it would've been easy for me to know scum
I guess I somehow convinced gkrieg to look elsewhere and you guys followed suit.
I guess it was the activity level for me that helped you.
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Yeah, so I deleted the message and my bookmark to the speccy, so I just now was able to see LL's question there about why we killed him. I sort of thought as you could see in the scum QT that the way you reacted to the rolecop claim might resemble how a doctor would react. I was clearly wrong.
And I just want to point out, yes I claimed my actual tracker result in the thread. No I did not mean to. I made up what I thought was a bogus claim before I even remembered to check the result, and then realized I actually guessed what exactly happened. If you look in my personal QT, you can see my thinking after that realization. I've deleted the bookmark though so I can't post it.
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Also, thanks to Andrew for his performance in this game, I've never lost as scum and never won as town that I can remember...
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(Slowly crys as he reads and see how town squandered the game) :'( :'( :'( GG Andrew well played. Joseph man you gotta do something!! (Sadly realizes he probably the worst town player on the forum halfway through his post) Gkrieg you should have taken a more active role in D3 because there was no way you were surviving N3 if there was one. (There was) Anyway GG good job Andrew
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(Slowly crys as he reads and see how town squandered the game) :'( :'( :'( GG Andrew well played. Joseph man you gotta do something!! (Sadly realizes he probably the worst town player on the forum halfway through his post) Gkrieg you should have taken a more active role in D3 because there was no way you were surviving N3 if there was one. (There was) Anyway GG good job Andrew
I feel I took a very active role...
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Oh, and in case anyone else has a panic and gets super-paranoid like I just did, I think we really can trust gkrieg to be 100% IC. We've had flips from a scum tracker and a town two-shot doctor, so we're firmly in setup 5 territory, and the only other thing in there is the rolecop, which he's claimed without counterclaim.
Interestingly, it looks like Dylan claimed his true tracker result for N1 in that claiming exercise, even though there's no game in which a rolecop overlaps with a town tracker, and Dylan already knew there had to be a rolecop in the game, with a 50% chance it was the person he'd tracked. (Jake's role could have appeared alongside a town tracker in 1/3 game setups, though). It looks like a risk that I'm glad we forced scum into taking, even if gkrieg didn't make more of it, and I still feel that Robz's refusal to play with that is scummy.
You have to accept me as IC because if someone were to counterclaim me at this point, it would just be a lynch both and win scenario.
So everyone sheep me now!!! JK, I'll probably try to not show opinions as much today, and be asking the questions instead.
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Oh, and in case anyone else has a panic and gets super-paranoid like I just did, I think we really can trust gkrieg to be 100% IC. We've had flips from a scum tracker and a town two-shot doctor, so we're firmly in setup 5 territory, and the only other thing in there is the rolecop, which he's claimed without counterclaim.
Interestingly, it looks like Dylan claimed his true tracker result for N1 in that claiming exercise, even though there's no game in which a rolecop overlaps with a town tracker, and Dylan already knew there had to be a rolecop in the game, with a 50% chance it was the person he'd tracked. (Jake's role could have appeared alongside a town tracker in 1/3 game setups, though). It looks like a risk that I'm glad we forced scum into taking, even if gkrieg didn't make more of it, and I still feel that Robz's refusal to play with that is scummy.
You have to accept me as IC because if someone were to counterclaim me at this point, it would just be a lynch both and win scenario.
So everyone sheep me now!!! JK, I'll probably try to not show opinions as much today, and be asking the questions instead.
That is what an IC is supposed to do.
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(Slowly crys as he reads and see how town squandered the game) :'( :'( :'( GG Andrew well played. Joseph man you gotta do something!! (Sadly realizes he probably the worst town player on the forum halfway through his post) Gkrieg you should have taken a more active role in D3 because there was no way you were surviving N3 if there was one. (There was) Anyway GG good job Andrew
Jake, you know how critical I am of your play generally, but you did fine this game. In fact, you did well, even. Hats off to you!
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(Slowly crys as he reads and see how town squandered the game) :'( :'( :'( GG Andrew well played. Joseph man you gotta do something!! (Sadly realizes he probably the worst town player on the forum halfway through his post) Gkrieg you should have taken a more active role in D3 because there was no way you were surviving N3 if there was one. (There was) Anyway GG good job Andrew
Jake, you know how critical I am of your play generally, but you did fine this game. In fact, you did well, even. Hats off to you!
Apparently not because I've played the last two town games like this and lost both.
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(Slowly crys as he reads and see how town squandered the game) :'( :'( :'( GG Andrew well played. Joseph man you gotta do something!! (Sadly realizes he probably the worst town player on the forum halfway through his post) Gkrieg you should have taken a more active role in D3 because there was no way you were surviving N3 if there was one. (There was) Anyway GG good job Andrew
Jake, you know how critical I am of your play generally, but you did fine this game. In fact, you did well, even. Hats off to you!
Apparently not because I've played the last two town games like this and lost both.
You can't take how your team ultimately does completely on yourself. Your recent improvement makes it so that scum can't just stir up or hide behind your former wild interactions with others. It also forces them to work hard if they want to push a mislynch through on you rather than just relying on you to talk yourself into getting lynched like what happened your first several games. The fact your team lost does not mean you weren't playing well. You were one of if not the first person to actually call me out for being scum. Of course you were wrong on Andrew, but I think D2 no one really was reading both of us as scum up until maybe right at the deadline, so there's nothing wrong with that.
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i put "thread locked" after 255, then deleted it. for clarity & stuff
GG everybody good game Joseph wins MVP and the game ;) ;) ??? ??? ::) ::)
So I'm getting the MVP then? ;)