/in
/tag:'(
So let's see if I have this rightThat is right.
D1 is normal
N1 scum must NK somebody with ghoul shenanigans going on and choose a duel to happen
D2 There's a duel. If scum is lynched, the town dies. If town is lynched, scum dies, town subs for scum.
N2 only happens if town is lynched, and there's a compulsory NK with ghoul shenangans
Rinse, repeat
On balance: Every time I've tried to run numbers on a setup, it comes out scum-favored. And so my games are always made easier for town. And then everyone says my games are skewed towards town. So just a warning there...Do you run them with random lynches? I ran them with above random lynches and they're still scum favored. Without Ghouls.
Something interesting is that both players in the duel are guarranteed to die. It's just a matter of whether a townie is converted or not.That is right, too. I don't dislike that. You fought, you lost, then you rest (or you won).
Perhaps it would make sense to skip N2 no matter what? That way there are two people dying every cycle no matter what.What why? That would screw the balance and I don't see the advantage.
I guess it just feels more elegant. But if you think it's balanced, sure then.Something interesting is that both players in the duel are guarranteed to die. It's just a matter of whether a townie is converted or not.That is right, too. I don't dislike that. You fought, you lost, then you rest (or you won).Perhaps it would make sense to skip N2 no matter what? That way there are two people dying every cycle no matter what.What why? That would screw the balance and I don't see the advantage.
What's scum win con?Ah, thanks. It'll be controlling 50% of the player base, to avoid 1/1 shenanigans where town still has the Ghoul power. I'll add it to the setup.
If scum win the duel and night is skipped, do you then have a normal day for D2, normal night for N2, normal D3, normal N3, duel D4?Yeah. About half the ways it can play out only have two duels.
Seems like not a lot of duels if scum does well. That's a LYLO duel on D4.
Whatevs. /inwoo!
I need another game in which I can die N1.
If a townie converts to the mafia team, do they keep their Ghoul power?
If a townie converts to the mafia team, do they keep their Ghoul power?
I had not thought about that.
So... I guess it's up for debate. I'll think on it before I decide.
May I join? Thanks!
I'd support them losing the power. Otherwise people might not use it on purpose in case they switch sides.
If a townie converts to the mafia team, do they keep their Ghoul power?
I had not thought about that.
So... I guess it's up for debate. I'll think on it before I decide.
I'd support them losing the power. Otherwise people might not use it on purpose in case they switch sides.
A E S T H E T I C
A E S T H E T I C
ｎｏｔ ｗｉｄｅ ｅｎｏｕｇｈ
/out
I thought this would fill up, then it didn't.
Wait, guys, do you think scum can pull off a quick triple hammer here?
Wait, guys, do you think scum can pull off a quick triple hammer here?
That can't possibly happen because there are only three scum in this game and one of them is the mod.
I am SO bad at Mafia.
/in
Please forgive me if I have trouble again. I'll do my best. :-\
I am SO bad at Mafia.
/in
Please forgive me if I have trouble again. I'll do my best. :-\
Just be on the opposite faction from me and we'll be fine. ;)
Uh oh...
That's why I said 'uh oh'Uh oh...
you violated the thread lock! :'(
That's why I said 'uh oh'Uh oh...
you violated the thread lock! :'(
That's the point.That's why I said 'uh oh'Uh oh...
you violated the thread lock! :'(
That is an A <-> B relationship. If you don't say 'uh oh' you don't need it; and if you do then you do. You can't go wrong.
Of course I could still give you a penalty, such as not being allowed to post more than 500 times per minute. What do you think?Well it had the word penalty in it :(
great! I'll put this here/In
(http://t04.deviantart.net/zO1X6U4IZ9hEq7sgYXm24UN2OdI=/300x200/filters:fixed_height(100,100):origin()/pre01/0862/th/pre/f/2012/002/f/2/f2809fcbf933ad41acde2c9aaef31369-d4l2for.jpg)
maybe someone will need it.
:(I didn't hammer (RR /outed), so still one space?
:(I didn't hammer (RR /outed), so still one space?
whelp. Yes, still one spot then.
Someone will join long before then I'm surewhelp. Yes, still one spot then.
Well, I guess RR will re-in when his VLA ends on Friday.
/in
Yay! I get to play with ash again!
Also, I'm scum again.
Also, I'm scum again.
It makes me sad that I am still not scum with ash, now that I finally have the chance again.Except that isn't true, because you and ash are my scum buddies.
It makes me sad that I am still not scum with ash, now that I finally have the chance again.
It makes me sad that I am still not scum with ash, now that I finally have the chance again.Except that isn't true, because you and ash are my scum buddies.
Vote: faust
Hi. I would like to have a plan. Unfortunately, I don't think there is one to be had.
It makes me sad that I am still not scum with ash, now that I finally have the chance again.Except that isn't true, because you and ash are my scum buddies.
Vote: faust
Well, that was a fast game. hah!
Actually, though, I was all prepared to come here and be silly on D1, but I think there's already something to analyze. Last time Joseph claimed scum he was town. Do people think that means he'd be more likely to do it again as scum?
Also, vote: joseph.
Also, vote: gkrieg13p because he is scumy skcum.
Also, vote: gkrieg13p because he is scumy skcum.
Mom ash is picking on me again
It makes me sad that I am still not scum with ash, now that I finally have the chance again.Except that isn't true, because you and ash are my scum buddies.
Vote: faust
Well, that was a fast game. hah!
Actually, though, I was all prepared to come here and be silly on D1, but I think there's already something to analyze. Last time Joseph claimed scum he was town. Do people think that means he'd be more likely to do it again as scum?
Also, vote: joseph.
I think it's null and I think you're scummy for taking it seriously; in fact this whole post is scummy.
Vote: J Reggie
What if we just have everyone ghoul to the next person on the list? It should guarantee a mafia death.
What if we just have everyone ghoul to the next person on the list? It should guarantee a mafia death.
Good idea. Let me check it.
Let me lay out out for you, though.
NO ONE GIVE READS LISTS.
Ghoul is our strongest tool, guys. Like, scum should be super scared to kill anyone due to the redirection of the kill thing. We need to lynch three scum or Ghoul three scum or some mix of those two. NKs are our friends if the towniest players do a good jobo f redirectioning hte kills.
If schum knows who we think ar scum, that's a bad thing. So no reads lists in day 1. Capisce?
gah, there's already serious discussion and we're not even an hour in! I know ash likes to solve setups, and I think that advice is good advice. Ash, what do you propose instead of reads lists.
Also, jimmmmm thinks I'm scummy.
PPE: 8 no joke
Let me lay out out for you, though.
NO ONE GIVE READS LISTS.
Ghoul is our strongest tool, guys. Like, scum should be super scared to kill anyone due to the redirection of the kill thing. We need to lynch three scum or Ghoul three scum or some mix of those two. NKs are our friends if the towniest players do a good jobo f redirectioning hte kills.
If schum knows who we think ar scum, that's a bad thing. So no reads lists in day 1. Capisce?
This makes no sense. It's not read lists that indicate who we'll likely Ghoul, it's our top 1-2 scum reads. So to follow your plan of not letting scum know who we're likely to Ghoul, we need to not give our top scum reads. Which means no reads, no cases, no votes for anyone apart from whoever ends up being lynched. So you're basically suggesting the Town give up our strongest weapons against scum for what is pretty much a crapshoot.
Scum ought to be super angry in their QT right now. Can't we just do this every night and win?
Let me lay out out for you, though.
NO ONE GIVE READS LISTS.
Ghoul is our strongest tool, guys. Like, scum should be super scared to kill anyone due to the redirection of the kill thing. We need to lynch three scum or Ghoul three scum or some mix of those two. NKs are our friends if the towniest players do a good jobo f redirectioning hte kills.
If schum knows who we think ar scum, that's a bad thing. So no reads lists in day 1. Capisce?
This makes no sense. It's not read lists that indicate who we'll likely Ghoul, it's our top 1-2 scum reads. So to follow your plan of not letting scum know who we're likely to Ghoul, we need to not give our top scum reads. Which means no reads, no cases, no votes for anyone apart from whoever ends up being lynched. So you're basically suggesting the Town give up our strongest weapons against scum for what is pretty much a crapshoot.
Yes.
Scum ought to be super angry in their QT right now. Can't we just do this every night and win?
We are 1-shot Ghouls.
Scum ought to be super angry in their QT right now. Can't we just do this every night and win?
We are 1-shot Ghouls.
Wait what?
What if we just have everyone ghoul to the next person on the list? It should guarantee a mafia death.
Scum ought to be super angry in their QT right now. Can't we just do this every night and win?
We are 1-shot Ghouls.
Wait what?
That was not in my PM.
Let me lay out out for you, though.
NO ONE GIVE READS LISTS.
Ghoul is our strongest tool, guys. Like, scum should be super scared to kill anyone due to the redirection of the kill thing. We need to lynch three scum or Ghoul three scum or some mix of those two. NKs are our friends if the towniest players do a good jobo f redirectioning hte kills.
If schum knows who we think ar scum, that's a bad thing. So no reads lists in day 1. Capisce?
This makes no sense. It's not read lists that indicate who we'll likely Ghoul, it's our top 1-2 scum reads. So to follow your plan of not letting scum know who we're likely to Ghoul, we need to not give our top scum reads. Which means no reads, no cases, no votes for anyone apart from whoever ends up being lynched. So you're basically suggesting the Town give up our strongest weapons against scum for what is pretty much a crapshoot.
Yes.
That's idiotic. Good luck playing Russian roulette.
Scum ought to be super angry in their QT right now. Can't we just do this every night and win?
We are 1-shot Ghouls.
Wait what?
That was not in my PM.
Vote: ash lol
Scum ought to be super angry in their QT right now. Can't we just do this every night and win?
We are 1-shot Ghouls.
Scum ought to be super angry in their QT right now. Can't we just do this every night and win?
We are 1-shot Ghouls.
Wait what?
That was not in my PM.
Vote: ash lol
That's fine. Your QT says 1-shot and mine doesn't? Willing to die for that, no problem.
Vote: ashersky
Still, it guarantees a mafia death N1. That's really good. We could win the game D2 if we lynch correctly (which should be easier with the duel).
Scum ought to be super angry in their QT right now. Can't we just do this every night and win?
We are 1-shot Ghouls.
Wait what?
That was not in my PM.
Vote: ash lol
That's fine. Your QT says 1-shot and mine doesn't? Willing to die for that, no problem.
Vote: ashersky
what?
Scum ought to be super angry in their QT right now. Can't we just do this every night and win?
We are 1-shot Ghouls.
Wait what?
That was not in my PM.
Vote: ash lol
That's fine. Your QT says 1-shot and mine doesn't? Willing to die for that, no problem.
Vote: ashersky
Scum ought to be super angry in their QT right now. Can't we just do this every night and win?
We are 1-shot Ghouls.
Wait what?
That was not in my PM.
Vote: ash lol
That's fine. Your QT says 1-shot and mine doesn't? Willing to die for that, no problem.
Vote: ashersky
I mean ash is known for self-voting but this makes no sense
Scum ought to be super angry in their QT right now. Can't we just do this every night and win?
We are 1-shot Ghouls.
Wait what?
That was not in my PM.
Vote: ash lol
That's fine. Your QT says 1-shot and mine doesn't? Willing to die for that, no problem.
Vote: ashersky
Did you read the QT or not?
Jimmmmm claims his QT says 1-shot, I claims mine does not.
Scum ought to be super angry in their QT right now. Can't we just do this every night and win?
We are 1-shot Ghouls.
Wait what?
That was not in my PM.
Vote: ash lol
That's fine. Your QT says 1-shot and mine doesn't? Willing to die for that, no problem.
Vote: ashersky
Relax, that was a joke vote.
I hate situations like this.
NOTE TO ALL MODS: In open games, publish all Role PMs (Or at least Town ones).
Jimmmmm claims his QT says 1-shot, I claims mine does not.
I claimed no such thing.
Jimmmmm claims his QT says 1-shot, I claims mine does not.
I claimed no such thing.
You voted me based on the fact that I assumed it wasn't 1-shot, so I assumed you were sure it wasn't.
My QT says nothing about shots, just that I can use the Ghoul power.
This is my first time as town in an open setup, so I'm really enjoying all this setup-solvy stuff. I'm glad town didn't do that in Fruit Ninja.
PPE: I lost count
This is my first time as town in an open setup, so I'm really enjoying all this setup-solvy stuff. I'm glad town didn't do that in Fruit Ninja.
PPE: I lost count
Were you scum in Fruit Ninja?
This is my first time as town in an open setup, so I'm really enjoying all this setup-solvy stuff. I'm glad town didn't do that in Fruit Ninja.
PPE: I lost count
Were you scum in Fruit Ninja?
Yes. :)
I seriously believed it was a real vote. No joke. I had no idea it was a joke.
It says there are 10* 1-shot ghouls, where asterisks generally mean there is a caveat (footnote) but I can't find any footnotes.
There's a setup post here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15591.msg606116#msg606116
It says there are 10* 1-shot ghouls, where asterisks generally mean there is a caveat (footnote) but I can't find any footnotes.
My PM and QT both do NOT mention shots, so I should have the ability every night. Whether there are 1-shot ghouls out there or not I cannot confirm. I don't think someone claiming 1-shot ghoul means they are scum and I would not vote for them specifically for that.
I would also caution against voting a ghoul without the shot limitation for the same reason, but Jimmmm did, until he said it was a joke.
I don't know. At this point, it seems possible that some Ghouls are 1-shot and some aren't.
It says there are 10* 1-shot ghouls, where asterisks generally mean there is a caveat (footnote) but I can't find any footnotes.
I think the asterisk means "10×", as in there are ten of them. It's an open setup, so there shouldn't be anything that's not in the setup post.
It's early for a read, but I'd say ash is probably town. No idea who is scum, probably not jimmmmm either.
PPE: why am I the default vote?
I mean ash is known for self-voting but this makes no sense
It's guaranteed that one of me and Jimmmmm is scum. Vote one of us, no one else. Just pick one, even if you are wrong, the other is scum, right? This is literally a PM/QT wording argument. No reads, no opinion, nothing. It's based solely on fact. Jimmmmm claims his QT says 1-shot, I claims mine does not. Pick which one you think is correct.
Butr relaly, to be striaght up honest.
Town has 2 thing: ghoul and duels.
All towny should redirect to their secret scummiest read. Scum can't know who that is, in case you super suck at reading and choose town and they just shoot you to kill town, or in case you are aesome like me and choose scum and they don't shoot you.
Scum is super scared that awe will ghoul to them. That's bad news bears. So NO READS LISTS.
Unless they are fake reads lists. And then you should say "this is a fake reads list...or IS IT???" so they don't know.
That would be amazing.
I mean ash is known for self-voting but this makes no sense
It's guaranteed that one of me and Jimmmmm is scum. Vote one of us, no one else. Just pick one, even if you are wrong, the other is scum, right? This is literally a PM/QT wording argument. No reads, no opinion, nothing. It's based solely on fact. Jimmmmm claims his QT says 1-shot, I claims mine does not. Pick which one you think is correct.
Mine doesn't mention the words "1-shot" either...
Vote: Jimmmmm
I mean ash is known for self-voting but this makes no sense
It's guaranteed that one of me and Jimmmmm is scum. Vote one of us, no one else. Just pick one, even if you are wrong, the other is scum, right? This is literally a PM/QT wording argument. No reads, no opinion, nothing. It's based solely on fact. Jimmmmm claims his QT says 1-shot, I claims mine does not. Pick which one you think is correct.
Mine doesn't mention the words "1-shot" either...
Vote: Jimmmmm
Someone
I mean ash is known for self-voting but this makes no sense
It's guaranteed that one of me and Jimmmmm is scum. Vote one of us, no one else. Just pick one, even if you are wrong, the other is scum, right? This is literally a PM/QT wording argument. No reads, no opinion, nothing. It's based solely on fact. Jimmmmm claims his QT says 1-shot, I claims mine does not. Pick which one you think is correct.
Mine doesn't mention the words "1-shot" either...
Vote: Jimmmmm
It's in the setup though.
This counts as a derp clear to me.
I mean ash is known for self-voting but this makes no sense
It's guaranteed that one of me and Jimmmmm is scum. Vote one of us, no one else. Just pick one, even if you are wrong, the other is scum, right? This is literally a PM/QT wording argument. No reads, no opinion, nothing. It's based solely on fact. Jimmmmm claims his QT says 1-shot, I claims mine does not. Pick which one you think is correct.
Mine doesn't mention the words "1-shot" either...
Vote: Jimmmmm
It's in the setup though.
This counts as a derp clear to me.
Seriously though, my QT says nothing about me only being able to use the ability once (even though I know I can only use it once.) That's why I voted for Jimmmmm, he must've tried to make up what would be in a town QT.
I think in this setup, Ashersky is a serial killer, and the rest of us are town. I read it in the setup. It's posted in the setup.
Vote: Ashersky
This will be easy.
Anyway, sheeping Jimmmmm is a thing. Pretty sure he is a cop. (or is that just my nightmares from bygone games....)
Who's sheeping me?
No one is. Yet.
But I do like your current vote.
There's a setup post here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15591.msg606116#msg606116
It says there are 10* 1-shot ghouls, where asterisks generally mean there is a caveat (footnote) but I can't find any footnotes.
My PM and QT both do NOT mention shots, so I should have the ability every night. Whether there are 1-shot ghouls out there or not I cannot confirm. I don't think someone claiming 1-shot ghoul means they are scum and I would not vote for them specifically for that.
I would also caution against voting a ghoul without the shot limitation for the same reason, but Jimmmm did, until he said it was a joke.
I don't know. At this point, it seems possible that some Ghouls are 1-shot and some aren't.
It is still one guaranteed scum NK if we do the plan. It fails if anyone uses their power on a different night or outside the plan. I think we should do it N1.
It is still one guaranteed scum NK if we do the plan. It fails if anyone uses their power on a different night or outside the plan. I think we should do it N1.
I would assume that scum can no-kill.
The Mafia NK is compulsory. A town-player will be randomized if no choice was submitted.
I may have to retract that townread on ash sadly... something just doesn't add up. He claims to have thought about this setup for a bit, yet he didn't know there are only 1-shot ghouls. If scum!ash had the town PM available, I could see him going for this kind of fake.
Meh.
I will follow the Ghoul plan tonight, target the person on the list after me.
vote: EgorK
vote: EgorK
Egor is in this game?
vote: EgorK
Egor is in this game?
Supposedly. #5 on the player list.
Jimm clearly comes out worse on the 1-shot thing, to my mind. Reading the setup is not a scumtell, I know, but it definitely seemed to me (at least at first) that Jimm was trying to look like he'd seen a town QT when in fact they don't mention 1-shotness. Ash's overly careful reading of the setup afterwards is just ash being ash.
Right but Jimm made the mistake first right?Jimm clearly comes out worse on the 1-shot thing, to my mind. Reading the setup is not a scumtell, I know, but it definitely seemed to me (at least at first) that Jimm was trying to look like he'd seen a town QT when in fact they don't mention 1-shotness. Ash's overly careful reading of the setup afterwards is just ash being ash.
If Jimmmm is scum, and ash town, wouldn't Jimmmmm trust ash if he's saying that the town PM did not mention the 1-shotness?
Right but Jimm made the mistake first right?
Right but Jimm made the mistake first right?Jimm clearly comes out worse on the 1-shot thing, to my mind. Reading the setup is not a scumtell, I know, but it definitely seemed to me (at least at first) that Jimm was trying to look like he'd seen a town QT when in fact they don't mention 1-shotness. Ash's overly careful reading of the setup afterwards is just ash being ash.
If Jimmmm is scum, and ash town, wouldn't Jimmmmm trust ash if he's saying that the town PM did not mention the 1-shotness?
In any case, I'm not saying either is scum necessarily. They could easily both be town. But if I had to pick...
Scum ought to be super angry in their QT right now. Can't we just do this every night and win?
We are 1-shot Ghouls.
I think in this setup, Ashersky is a serial killer, and the rest of us are town. I read it in the setup. It's posted in the setup.
Vote: Ashersky
This will be easy.
...Except you're completely and absolutely wrong. And no, I'm not giving you a townpass because you didn't read the set-up like you claimed you did.
I will follow the Ghoul plan tonight, target the person on the list after me.
Oh, Ash, how I have missed playing with you. Those opening posts with weird spellings and errors were interesting, but then you settled into your plan. Good stuff. Self-vote and everything.
Anyway, sheeping Jimmmmm is a thing. Pretty sure he is a cop. (or is that just my nightmares from bygone games....)
vote: iguanaiguana
I will follow the Ghoul plan tonight, target the person on the list after me.
I love your plan. I bow before its simple genius and vow to follow it unless I forget to submit a night action on time.
I will follow the Ghoul plan tonight, target the person on the list after me.
I love your plan. I bow before its simple genius and vow to follow it unless I forget to submit a night action on time.
Only it's chairs plan. Though it is good and I'll follow on it
In other news I finally read all you posted while I was sleeping. Jimmm's answers seems off, but he confronting ash do not make much sense otherwise. Joseph repeating his behavior from earlier town game seems much more interesting and I do not see why he had not been given much scrutiny for doing this (there were votes, but I think their motivation had much more to do with behavior itself, not associated meta)
I'd Vote: Joseph for now
I think IRL means not what you think it means (or you are pretty pessimistic)
I almost feel bad about the plan since it's one guaranteed mafia nk. It does limit us later in the game since we won't have any PR though, but I still think it's probably worth it.
If we can lynch properly today that puts us in a great spot.
I don't know why Jimmmm is getting off so easily.
I don't know why Jimmmm is getting off so easily.
Getting off what?
I don't know why Jimmmm is getting off so easily.
Getting off what?
The thing with ash. He tried to play it off like it was a joke, but I think it was a scumslip.
Scum ought to be super angry in their QT right now. Can't we just do this every night and win?
We are 1-shot Ghouls.
Wait what?
That was not in my PM.
Vote: ash lol
Scum ought to be super angry in their QT right now. Can't we just do this every night and win?
We are 1-shot Ghouls.
Wait what?
That was not in my PM.
Vote: ash lol
That's fine. Your QT says 1-shot and mine doesn't? Willing to die for that, no problem.
Vote: ashersky
Relax, that was a joke vote.
I hate situations like this.
NOTE TO ALL MODS: In open games, publish all Role PMs (Or at least Town ones).
I seriously believed it was a real vote. No joke. I had no idea it was a joke.
I believe you. I did literally say 'lol' in the same line as the vote though. My thought process was, with the mindset of early Day 1 jump-on-anything votes 'Ha that's because you have a scum PM' with no regard to whether you were actually right or not. I then went and checked the PM and the QT.
I also unfortunately believe you're probably Town because of this. I mean it's possible that ss published the Town PMs in the scum QT, but I don't know.
Also if I'm scum and a Townie says something about the Town PM (QT whatever), I'm not going to dispute that am I?
Happy to go back to Vote: J Reggie
I will follow the Ghoul plan tonight, target the person on the list after me.
I love your plan. I bow before its simple genius and vow to follow it unless I forget to submit a night action on time.
Only it's chairs plan. Though it is good and I'll follow on it
In other news I finally read all you posted while I was sleeping. Jimmm's answers seems off, but he confronting ash do not make much sense otherwise. Joseph repeating his behavior from earlier town game seems much more interesting and I do not see why he had not been given much scrutiny for doing this (there were votes, but I think their motivation had much more to do with behavior itself, not associated meta)
I'd Vote: Joseph for now
Agree, a sensible enough post to seem towny.
I will follow the Ghoul plan tonight, target the person on the list after me.
I love your plan. I bow before its simple genius and vow to follow it unless I forget to submit a night action on time.
Only it's chairs plan. Though it is good and I'll follow on it
In other news I finally read all you posted while I was sleeping. Jimmm's answers seems off, but he confronting ash do not make much sense otherwise. Joseph repeating his behavior from earlier town game seems much more interesting and I do not see why he had not been given much scrutiny for doing this (there were votes, but I think their motivation had much more to do with behavior itself, not associated meta)
I'd Vote: Joseph for now
I like this post by EgorK. Seems very townie and genuine.
Also, I'm a mason. My partner will confirm.
And just to clarify, this plan definitely 100% works, right?
So we'll definitely kill scum N1.
That seems really good for us.
PPE: 1
And just to clarify, this plan definitely 100% works, right?
So we'll definitely kill scum N1.
That seems really good for us.
PPE: 1
Yes.
What if scum decides not to kill anybody? What if there are two scum in a row on the list, conveniently or by accident? I don't like this plan, it feels like a trap. I think we should wait to do this until we're certain we are in a losing position and want a free kill.
What if scum decides not to kill anybody? What if there are two scum in a row on the list, conveniently or by accident? I don't like this plan, it feels like a trap. I think we should wait to do this until we're certain we are in a losing position and want a free kill.Scum is obliged to kill (see the setup)- if they don't nominate someone, then a random town player gets chosen.
To be clear, this plan does NOT tell us about anyone's alignment. It just guarantees one dead mafia.True, but it's 1 dead mafia.
To be clear, this plan does NOT tell us about anyone's alignment. It just guarantees one dead mafia.
Seprix does have a point that we may want to delay the usage of our nightkill (which it is, effectively). The main reason against it is that scum have more power to drive discussion in a direction of their choosing the longer all of them remain alive.
Ashersky is also totally the person to do a bold gambit. Well, I call that gambit.
vote: Ash
I have a serious theory here. I think Ashersky was trying to pull a fast one on us with the Mason claim. Like, what is he even talking about? There's no proof whatsoever that there are any factions but 1-shot Ghouls, and I don't think there are any other factions. It even says so in the set-up. There's nothing there.
Sorry, I can't let it go that Ashersky said there would be someone to verify his Mason claim. Ashersky is clearly lying and needs to die.
I have a serious theory here. I think Ashersky was trying to pull a fast one on us with the Mason claim. Like, what is he even talking about? There's no proof whatsoever that there are any factions but 1-shot Ghouls, and I don't think there are any other factions. It even says so in the set-up. There's nothing there.
Sorry, I can't let it go that Ashersky said there would be someone to verify his Mason claim. Ashersky is clearly lying and needs to die.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13859.msg530104#msg530104
I have a serious theory here. I think Ashersky was trying to pull a fast one on us with the Mason claim. Like, what is he even talking about? There's no proof whatsoever that there are any factions but 1-shot Ghouls, and I don't think there are any other factions. It even says so in the set-up. There's nothing there.
Sorry, I can't let it go that Ashersky said there would be someone to verify his Mason claim. Ashersky is clearly lying and needs to die.
I have a serious theory here. I think Ashersky was trying to pull a fast one on us with the Mason claim. Like, what is he even talking about? There's no proof whatsoever that there are any factions but 1-shot Ghouls, and I don't think there are any other factions. It even says so in the set-up. There's nothing there.
Sorry, I can't let it go that Ashersky said there would be someone to verify his Mason claim. Ashersky is clearly lying and needs to die.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13859.msg530104#msg530104
I love that game! Good job there BTW. So is the whole Mason thing just a joke in reference to that? That's what I initially thought.
His note to all mods sounds like he is mad that he got caught.
His last post looks like he doesn't know if town got QTs or PMs. He says both times PM then QT very awkwardly. Especially the bold part.
What this says about Seprix...I don't know. He was around back then, I think?
Thanks, this is much more helpful than "Jimmmmm claims his QT says 1-shot".QuoteHis note to all mods sounds like he is mad that he got caught.
I am nowhere near brave enough to do that as scum. As scum in Speed-Dating Mafia when faust deduced that there were no scum-scum partnerships, I was quite annoyed because it affected my winning chances, but there was no way I was going to say so in the game thread. In this case it's an integrity of the game thing.QuoteHis last post looks like he doesn't know if town got QTs or PMs. He says both times PM then QT very awkwardly. Especially the bold part.
Well yeah I write awkwardly sometimes. Sometimes you have to specify what you're talking about so that people can't pedantically correct you. The PM was simply a QT link with no mention of alignment. We don't really have an accepted term for Role Message in a QT.
Every time I think I find something, it doesn't work at all.
Every time I think I find something, it doesn't work at all.
I'm pretty sure the plan should work. I couldn't find anything except for someone forgetting to make the action
Thanks, this is much more helpful than "Jimmmmm claims his QT says 1-shot".QuoteHis note to all mods sounds like he is mad that he got caught.
I am nowhere near brave enough to do that as scum. As scum in Speed-Dating Mafia when faust deduced that there were no scum-scum partnerships, I was quite annoyed because it affected my winning chances, but there was no way I was going to say so in the game thread. In this case it's an integrity of the game thing.QuoteHis last post looks like he doesn't know if town got QTs or PMs. He says both times PM then QT very awkwardly. Especially the bold part.
Well yeah I write awkwardly sometimes. Sometimes you have to specify what you're talking about so that people can't pedantically correct you. The PM was simply a QT link with no mention of alignment. We don't really have an accepted term for Role Message in a QT.
This actually is a pretty townie defense. I feel like you fall apart when you get pressure for something as scum.
unvote
Ugh, I have no idea who is scum now. I think teamlyle is still the best bet.
Ugh, I have no idea who is scum now. I think teamlyle is still the best bet.
What's the case?
Ugh, I have no idea who is scum now. I think teamlyle is still the best bet.
What's the case?
The way he jumped on Jimmmmm and subsequently unvoted when he got pressure was scummy. But IDK man.
Ugh, I have no idea who is scum now. I think teamlyle is still the best bet.
What's the case?
The way he jumped on Jimmmmm and subsequently unvoted when he got pressure was scummy. But IDK man.
Dude I'm still pretty sure Jimmmmm is scum, I don't know what posts made him "clearly look like town." I just unvoted because I knew I'd be lynched otherwise.
I'm still pretty sure Jimmmmm is scum
I'm still pretty sure Jimmmmm is scum
Based on my actual posts or ash's assessments of them?
I'm still pretty sure Jimmmmm is scum
Based on my actual posts or ash's assessments of them?
No just based on the '1-shot' phrasing of the QT.
I'm still pretty sure Jimmmmm is scum
Based on my actual posts or ash's assessments of them?
No just based on the '1-shot' phrasing of the QT.
Elaborate.
I'm still pretty sure Jimmmmm is scum
Based on my actual posts or ash's assessments of them?
No just based on the '1-shot' phrasing of the QT.
Elaborate.
I don't see how it's unclear, you said that your QT said "1-shot." My QT did not. At least I'm pretty sure you said that.
That's fine. Your QT says 1-shot and mine doesn't? Willing to die for that, no problem.
Vote: ashersky
Could you guys please tell me what I could've done better besides messing this up though? I'd appreciate it, thanks.
vote: teamlyle
Man there are 5 of you viewing the thread. Just lynch me already
Man there are 5 of you viewing the thread. Just lynch me already
If you're town, why are you pining to be lynched?
Man there are 5 of you viewing the thread. Just lynch me already
If you're town, why are you pining to be lynched?
I dunno. I just get judged for every one of my posts. I'm sick of this.
Player List:
- gkrieg13
- Joseph2302
- Haddock
- e
- Egork
- J Reggie
- faust
- teamlyle
- Seprix
- iguanaiguana
- chairs
- Jimmmmm
- ashersky
Then don't play Mafia. It's what people do. We have to find scum. It's the objective of the game. Being a defeatist does not help town.
Then don't play Mafia. It's what people do. We have to find scum. It's the objective of the game. Being a defeatist does not help town.
I just don't know your guys' cues and stuff for f.ds mafia, nor do I know what the heck I did to get myself in this position.
You know, can't really say since we aren't doing readslists this game. I seriously have no clue what I am going to do. Not doing readslists is fun and exciting and different. But tough.
You know, can't really say since we aren't doing readslists this game. I seriously have no clue what I am going to do. Not doing readslists is fun and exciting and different. But tough.
We're co-ordinating the Ghoul powers, so the reason to not do reads lists is null and void anyway.
I think it will be pretty easy for scum to know who to challenge anyway
You know, can't really say since we aren't doing readslists this game. I seriously have no clue what I am going to do. Not doing readslists is fun and exciting and different. But tough.
We're co-ordinating the Ghoul powers, so the reason to not do reads lists is null and void anyway.
At this point I don't really care who we lynch.
I think it will be pretty easy for scum to know who to challenge anyway
thats not an ambiguously confident statement at all
I think it will be pretty easy for scum to know who to challenge anyway
thats not an ambiguously confident statement at all
I don't think we should be talking about this at all. I already have a game plan that will be unveiled after tonight. No more talking about this, please. The less information, the better.
I say lynch someone and move on. Anyone, really. It doesn't matter too much, since there are no reads. Those will be formed after tonight.
This might be a game where I'd rather lynch someone saying a bunch of safe things, so as to not stand out.
This might be a game where I'd rather lynch someone saying a bunch of safe things, so as to not stand out.
Do you mean NK? Because this looks like a line out of your mafia qt tonight when you are conversing with your buddies.
PS: Just do the list thing in order of the signups, where Joseph targets Haddock, Haddock targets e, and so on, and ash targets Joseph. Skip over me.
Player List:
- gkrieg13
- Joseph2302
- Haddock
- e
- Egork
- J Reggie
- faust
- teamlyle
- Seprix
- iguanaiguana
- chairs
- Jimmmmm
- ashersky
He'd done other crazy stuff between me saying that and just now: hence my earlier post saying I didn't want to vote him. ;) seriously, weird-shit!Seprix is town!Seprix. He's like RR in that sense, but a different kind of weird.I think it will be pretty easy for scum to know who to challenge anyway
thats not an ambiguously confident statement at all
I don't think we should be talking about this at all. I already have a game plan that will be unveiled after tonight. No more talking about this, please. The less information, the better.
I say lynch someone and move on. Anyone, really. It doesn't matter too much, since there are no reads. Those will be formed after tonight.
Well... anyone said something about "Seprix hasn't done anything batshit crazy yet"? There you go.
Also Seprix is more likely town with this. I can vote: e instead.
And yeah, gkrieg, lyle's comment was totally obvious and not remotely antitown. Your misunderstanding of it feels intentional. vote: gkrieg
At this point I don't really care who we lynch.Why not?
That's like the good ole days. I'm almost double the nearest poster, who is surprisingly JIMMMMM.
That's like the good ole days. I'm almost double the nearest poster, who is surprisingly JIMMMMM.
Townpoints for Jimmmmmm for being so active.
Scumponts for Jimmmmmm for earning townpoints.
faust is strangely absent. He's usually the top in post numbers. Iguana/Haddock/Joseph are in the sweet acti-lurking scum slots.
vote: joseph
I am a mason with Ashersky and Gkrieg13.
That's like the good ole days. I'm almost double the nearest poster, who is surprisingly JIMMMMM.
Jesus, it's like you're me!
That's like the good ole days. I'm almost double the nearest poster, who is surprisingly JIMMMMM.I'm always in the slightly lurky
Townpoints for Jimmmmmm for being so active.
Scumponts for Jimmmmmm for earning townpoints.
faust is strangely absent. He's usually the top in post numbers. Iguana/Haddock/Joseph are in the sweet acti-lurking scum slots.
vote: joseph
I don't know. This game is weird. Do people seriously believe that it's good to not give reads? Because that is bullshit.But it makes the D2 dual harder for scum, which is good.
I don't know. This game is weird. Do people seriously believe that it's good to not give reads? Because that is bullshit.But it makes the D2 dual harder for scum, which is good.
I seriously doubt that giving reads lists actually helps scum at all, but they could definitely help mafia decide who to duel, so in that sense yes.It's a contradiction of course, and somehow the usage of scum/mafia seems off. Like scummy off.
And honestly I don't see how it makes the duel harder.If scum know who people find scummy, they're more likely to nominate them for the duel, and therefore we're more likely to lose that duel.
That's like the good ole days. I'm almost double the nearest poster, who is surprisingly JIMMMMM.
Townpoints for Jimmmmmm for being so active.
Scumponts for Jimmmmmm for earning townpoints.
faust is strangely absent. He's usually the top in post numbers. Iguana/Haddock/Joseph are in the sweet acti-lurking scum slots.
vote: joseph
Why does my expending very little effort on this game make me scummy?
Questioon to nod. Can mafia kill one of their own at night?
Reads are interesting here because of someone is consensus town (like me) then scum are more likely to NK then. But a consensus scum individual (like seprix or iguana or j reggie) then it seems more likely that scum will duel that person.
But then wifom hits and we have a duel between "consensus town" and "consensus scum." Now what.
I mean, would scum really pick egork to duel if he was one of them? I mean, egork is the fallback lynch in every single game he is in. But everyone knows that.
Then we have town people switching sides, which is cool, but it is D1 all over again. (To some extent)
I am not sure where this past was supposed to go, but let it end here: it's all wifom and we shouldn't worry about it until we know what the duel is.
Townpoints for Jimmmmmm for being so active.
Scumponts for Jimmmmmm for earning townpoints.
Why does my expending very little effort on this game make me scummy?
Who said that? Wasn't me. I thought your posts were scummy.
Reads are interesting here because of someone is consensus town (like me) then scum are more likely to NK then. But a consensus scum individual (like seprix or iguana or j reggie) then it seems more likely that scum will duel that person.
But then wifom hits and we have a duel between "consensus town" and "consensus scum." Now what.
I mean, would scum really pick egork to duel if he was one of them? I mean, egork is the fallback lynch in every single game he is in. But everyone knows that.
Then we have town people switching sides, which is cool, but it is D1 all over again. (To some extent)
I am not sure where this past was supposed to go, but let it end here: it's all wifom and we shouldn't worry about it until we know what the duel is.
This is exactly what I told everyone to think about but not talk about. Let's not talk about this anymore until tomorrow.
Well, I have to agree with faust. We do need to discuss reads, otherwise it is crapshoot
Questioon to nod. Can mafia kill one of their own at night?
Agree. Scum would ask this in their scumchat.Well, I have to agree with faust. We do need to discuss reads, otherwise it is crapshoot
Questioon to nod. Can mafia kill one of their own at night?
This is towny for EgorK. This is probably a question that scum would have asked in their cutie rather than in thread. Of course, EgorK could have done it on purpose, but I'm still leaving town on this.
Questioon to nod. Can mafia kill one of their own at night?
yes
I need to think about this, but unless there are two Mafia in a row on the list, the person immediately before the dead Mafia is an IC. So someone do the math on the absolute probability of that happening.
However, the player before or after a mafia player has the exact same likelihood to be scum as any other player.Given that we know the alignment of the dead player, yes true, of course. Forget that then.
Actually would mafia be forbidden to kill themselves person right before killed mafia after N1 would be IC. Now, suppose we can flip a coin and get all he same result. This way we can force scum into either give us an IC or kill their own with a chance they are doing it "for free" for us. Some kind of football match that happens during first half of night phase could be such a coin, but alas this is too hard to coordinate I think
1. I accuse three players of acti-lurking.
2. I vote for one of those three.
3. The two I did not vote for get defensive.
Bonus scumpoints for those two!
Actually would mafia be forbidden to kill themselves person right before killed mafia after N1 would be IC. Now, suppose we can flip a coin and get all he same result. This way we can force scum into either give us an IC or kill their own with a chance they are doing it "for free" for us. Some kind of football match that happens during first half of night phase could be such a coin, but alas this is too hard to coordinate I think
It's an interesting thought, but we would need to make sure that the mafia doesn't know the result of the coin flip, and that seems impossible.
Ya I'm liking this from egork. Seems townie. Also slightly more active than normal from him. I still think we should go with teamlyle. Especially with his disappearance.
Ya I don't like that plan at all.Seems good to me.
Definitely think we should lynch teamlyle and then all use our ghoul on the next person in the player order.
Has 24 hours passed?Yes, his last post was on 21/7 at 04:23 UTC + 1- so 41 and a bit hours ago.
vote: teamlyleEarly L-1.
L-1
I request prod on lyle
Has anybody seen Iguana even posting? I'd be fine with lynching him. He's doing nothing but hopping on wagons.
Sorry for my absence! Anyway unvote if I have any chance at allWait, what?
Sorry for my absence! Anyway unvote if I have any chance at allWait, what?
You were voting for yourself?
Sorry for my absence! Anyway unvote if I have any chance at allWait, what?
You were voting for yourself?
Yeah, I really don't understand the self votes. Could ash or teamlyle explain why they were necessary?
We might want to wait to go into the night until the weekend is over so no one forgets to submit their night action.Agree.
Oh and I'm away most of today (Saturday), so consider this a V/LA notification I.e. Don't prod me.
Oh and I'm away most of today (Saturday), so consider this a V/LA notification I.e. Don't prod me.
Today is still Friday. Well, I guess not for some of you (including the mod I believe).
Either way, Joseph is not the correct lynch today. Seprix is
Or wait, we're not even doing that, are we?
Or wait, we're not even doing that, are we?
No, no. We can do cases. Just no reads
Vote: Seprix
Vote: Seprix
Vote: Seprix
I so want you dead.
It was 00:17 when I posted, and would have been 01;17 i believe for the mod.Oh and I'm away most of today (Saturday), so consider this a V/LA notification I.e. Don't prod me.
Today is still Friday. Well, I guess not for some of you (including the mod I believe).
Either way, Joseph is not the correct lynch today. Seprix is
Vote: Seprix
I so want you dead.
That was uncalled for.
Vote: Seprix
I so want you dead.
That was uncalled for.
Vote: Seprix
This as well. Should I hammer you?
You'll have to wait until I'm less tired and less drunk.
We're back? We're back!Ditto
OK. Will get on this soon.
Yeah, tried to post yesterday but the forum was being weird.
Also, vote people for this game. Using meta is cool, but going outside the Mafia universe is not
Vote: Seprix
This as well. Should I hammer you?
You'll have to wait until I'm less tired and less drunk.
+1. Though as he unvoted himself he is at L-2 now
Vote: Seprix
I so want you dead.
That was uncalled for.
It's a forum survivor thing. He basically destroyed my game. We've been playing since last year in October.
Seems like he's probably scum though since people are having trouble lynching him. That's often a thing.I swing the other way on it.
Seems like he's probably scum though since people are having trouble lynching him. That's often a thing.I swing the other way on it.
People are mostly going "oh there's tons of time", which is not a defence. I genuinely think people are happy to lynch him. What does scum benefit from stalling here rather than just bussing and be done with it?
I think this is actually a case where a shorter day benefits town more. More interactions between players (which is usually why town wants long days) means more of a chance for scum to pick a duel that they can win. The nights are short, so hopefully we can get mafia to make a rash decision on the duel if someone hammers soon.
That settles it, then. I'll end the day if there are no objections.
That settles it, then. I'll end the day if there are no objections.
Pretty sure there have already been objections.
That settles it, then. I'll end the day if there are no objections.
Pretty sure there have already been objections.
...And there's an objection.
and giving you a free correct lynch
Okay, it's official now. Sorry guys I was town
Okay, it's official now. Sorry guys I was town
I was just trolling on my way out :) Good luck guys!
I was just trolling on my way out :) Good luck guys!
Ugh, you might have died anyways, but that is just too bad...
I was just trolling on my way out :) Good luck guys!
Ugh, you might have died anyways, but that is just too bad...
I would've definitely died anyway.
Okay, who screwed up!?
Okay, who screwed up!?
Obviously chairs, right? Which is too bad because he was on the track to being MVP. I'm tempted to say ash is town because of the way he pushed the ghoul plan.
Okay, who screwed up!?
Obviously chairs, right? Which is too bad because he was on the track to being MVP. I'm tempted to say ash is town because of the way he pushed the ghoul plan.
Ashersky is too clever to not push the Ghoul plan. He's a solid scum player, and a huge risk taker. Don't assume he is town for only that reason.
Okay, who screwed up!?
Obviously chairs, right? Which is too bad because he was on the track to being MVP. I'm tempted to say ash is town because of the way he pushed the ghoul plan.
Ashersky is too clever to not push the Ghoul plan. He's a solid scum player, and a huge risk taker. Don't assume he is town for only that reason.
Yeah, that's a good point. I'd like to wait to hear from both of them before I vote. If anyone else failed to use their ghoul power, please don't say anything about it.
It does matter though, as it means they still have the power for another night.Okay, who screwed up!?
Obviously chairs, right? Which is too bad because he was on the track to being MVP. I'm tempted to say ash is town because of the way he pushed the ghoul plan.
Ashersky is too clever to not push the Ghoul plan. He's a solid scum player, and a huge risk taker. Don't assume he is town for only that reason.
Yeah, that's a good point. I'd like to wait to hear from both of them before I vote. If anyone else failed to use their ghoul power, please don't say anything about it.
If anyone else failed to use it, it would not matter. Only the person who died failed irresponsibly.
If the players which mafia chooses die before the start of the next day, then another player from the required alignment is randomized. However, mafia is allowed (and encouraged) to choose a backup player for each side, who will then be chosen if the first choice dies.Scum could have chosen a backup, therefore faust could have been the sacrifice target.
If the players which mafia chooses die before the start of the next day, then another player from the required alignment is randomized. However, mafia is allowed (and encouraged) to choose a backup player for each side, who will then be chosen if the first choice dies.Scum could have chosen a backup, therefore faust could have been the sacrifice target.
So that is terrible. Shame on chairs.
Here's what we learned. There is at least one scum in {1-6}. There could be one scum in {9, 10, 12}.
Why? The duel. All of my calculations assume I am town because I know I am town.
The scum team chose Faust and ashersky. They knew our plan and had to factor that into their decision. Hence, they knew that the scum who would die was not Faust. The kill target would have been a player between Faust and chairs (my guess is Seprix). Seprix and igu are highly likely to be town, but not guaranteed.
Regardless, they could only have targeted Sep, igu, or chairs. They knew I would survive the NK because of the plan, so they either planned for Jimmmmm to die, or both scum are in the first set of six.
I think Jimmmm was the sacrifice. That would mean the third partner is seen as townier than him.
vote: faust
So I fear that there is no way to conclude that Jimmmmm is town here. Too bad.
But why choose a backup? The absolute most sensible thing to do as scum is to assume town plays well enough to follow the simplest plan on the planet and just work around it.
There are no absolute guarantees here, but I'm basing my analysis on known information and most likely decisions. Scum plans for the plan and does what they need to to get what they think is most beneficial to them.
Okay, who screwed up!?
Obviously chairs, right? Which is too bad because he was on the track to being MVP. I'm tempted to say ash is town because of the way he pushed the ghoul plan.
Ashersky is too clever to not push the Ghoul plan. He's a solid scum player, and a huge risk taker. Don't assume he is town for only that reason.
The most interesting thing is that chairs died; that means that if scum did not want to kill ash, then Jimmmmm must be scum. Or it's all a setup to frame Jimmmmm? That would mean that ash was willing to risk being the nightkill. Does that make sense?
I mean, no matter what, we both die after today, so anything ash says right now is full of WIFOM.
Thi is an interesting post though. ash implies that scum would have always assumed the plan works. Is that what he really thinks? Because then Jimmmmm looks bad again. I may just be misdirection though, hoping to frame Jimmmmm even after his death.
The most interesting thing is that chairs died; that means that if scum did not want to kill ash, then Jimmmmm must be scum. Or it's all a setup to frame Jimmmmm? That would mean that ash was willing to risk being the nightkill. Does that make sense?
No, that doesn't make sense. I used ghoul, I pass the kill on. Why would any of what you are mentioning there matter?
The most interesting thing is that chairs died; that means that if scum did not want to kill ash, then Jimmmmm must be scum. Or it's all a setup to frame Jimmmmm? That would mean that ash was willing to risk being the nightkill. Does that make sense?
No, that doesn't make sense. I used ghoul, I pass the kill on. Why would any of what you are mentioning there matter?
Because you're scum and have no ghoul power.
They had to have planned for one of them (not Faust) to be dead.
They had to have planned for one of them (not Faust) to be dead.
...How do you know this?
I legitimately feel we can figure out this lynch. We have time, let town discuss it. The fact that Ash is pushing for everyone to just vote instead of discussing it is very very scummy on its own.
They had to have planned for one of them (not Faust) to be dead.
...How do you know this?
How do you not?
Unless you think they knew somehow that one town would not follow the plan, they had to have planned to lose one of their own.
The NK was compulsory, the Ghouls would redirect it until it hit someone who couldn't, and that someone was supposed to be scum.
Ensuring it wasn't Faust was easy -- the first domino needed to be after Faust and before another scum on the player list.
I legitimately feel we can figure out this lynch. We have time, let town discuss it. The fact that Ash is pushing for everyone to just vote instead of discussing it is very very scummy on its own.
I legitimately think you are delusional if you think there is a sure fire way to determine which of the two of us are scum.
Although one point I would make -- no scum team with me on it would ever, ever, ever duel Faust. That's crazy sauce.
Okay, that makes sense. Except it is wrong, and will be proven wrong either way. I actually think we should just lynch. Everyone can vote in their next post -- you and I unvote each other so as not to effect wagon makeup. One extra slot on the lynch for a player to have to make a stand benefits town every time.
unvote
Well all I can say is to confirm that I did ghoul to chairs : (
Submitted my Ghoul on ash. Everyone else should do likewise (not on ash though).
Submitted on joseph
Submitted on IGG Rush.
If ash is town, then Faust would be conf!scum to him, and the best thing you can do is vote for conf!scum.
Hi. I would like to have a plan. Unfortunately, I don't think there is one to be had.
There is, in fact, a huge plan to be had. And I have it.
Also, as is amazingly awesome, DAMA.
gah, there's already serious discussion and we're not even an hour in! I know ash likes to solve setups, and I think that advice is good advice. Ash, what do you propose instead of reads lists.
Also, jimmmmm thinks I'm scummy.
PPE: 8 no joke
I propose nothing in place of reads lists. Just vote. If scum wants to work hard to create reads lists for each town player base don our voting patterns and posts, good on them.
Just no popsquizes or readslists. Trust me on this.
Also, someone chekc the math on the chairs plan. I think it works. Ghoul the next in line, NK just gets passed down the list until it hits scum who can't Ghoul. Or scum doesn't NK, but they cna't NK buecause I think it is compuslory. So we win.
If that's truly true, setup is broken.
Also, super town on Jimmmmmm.
Scum ought to be super angry in their QT right now. Can't we just do this every night and win?
We are 1-shot Ghouls.
Wait what?
That was not in my PM.
2) the mod changed the setup without telling anyone
It has to be 1, because 2 would be an unforgivable sin.
2) the mod changed the setup without telling anyone
It has to be 1, because 2 would be an unforgivable sin.
I did not change the setup.
I mean ash is known for self-voting but this makes no sense
It's guaranteed that one of me and Jimmmmm is scum. Vote one of us, no one else. Just pick one, even if you are wrong, the other is scum, right? This is literally a PM/QT wording argument. No reads, no opinion, nothing. It's based solely on fact. Jimmmmm claims his QT says 1-shot, I claims mine does not. Pick which one you think is correct.
I thought about this setup a bit, since I signed up for my first game in months.
Iguana, the case on Ash is strong. But is there a case on Faust? Can you look into it? You're the most likely town player here, so your input is the most valuable.
unvote
Not liking the Lyle vote on Jimmmm.
Also, if anyone says they want to be chosen for the duel, it's probably scum playing the long con.
That said, I want to be chosen for the duel.
Iguana, the case on Ash is strong. But is there a case on Faust? Can you look into it? You're the most likely town player here, so your input is the most valuable.
The whole argument of ash being town because he would have died in the night as scum if the plan had gone correctly seems like exactly the type of thing ash would plan as scum. Also, I really don't understand the unvoting thing. If ash is town, then Faust would be conf!scum to him, and the best thing you can do is vote for conf!scum. So I think I'll vote: ashersky.
Okay, who screwed up!?
Obviously chairs, right? Which is too bad because he was on the track to being MVP. I'm tempted to say ash is town because of the way he pushed the ghoul plan.
Ashersky is too clever to not push the Ghoul plan. He's a solid scum player, and a huge risk taker. Don't assume he is town for only that reason.
Plus, it was not him that came up with the plan, but chairs. Of course after the plan was out, everyone realized that we had to do it.
faust: once the lynch is confirmed, would you do me a favor and go ahead and thank chairs for screwing up his own plan on behalf of your partners?
Also, no need to troll after the lynch is confirmed, you can just own up to being scum.
If ash is town, then Faust would be conf!scum to him, and the best thing you can do is vote for conf!scum.
When he said that, that basically sealed my vote. It's pretty obvious Ashersky blew it at this point.
faust: once the lynch is confirmed, would you do me a favor and go ahead and thank chairs for screwing up his own plan on behalf of your partners?
Also, no need to troll after the lynch is confirmed, you can just own up to being scum.
You're being ridiculous and petty. I haven't even voted yet. I'm just doing a reread. Of course I'm going to find you scummy, from my perspective you have 50% odds of being scum.
I may have to retract that townread on ash sadly... something just doesn't add up. He claims to have thought about this setup for a bit, yet he didn't know there are only 1-shot ghouls. If scum!ash had the town PM available, I could see him going for this kind of fake.
Meh.
It is more that I didn't realize there were only 1-shot ghouls in the setup. Like, my QT clearly does NOT specify that my power is 1-shot, and that's my go to for all role information. Open setup or not, role pm/qt needs to specify.
Scum team will complain but the Ghoul plan is basically gold. Chairs gets huge town points for pointing it out -- I don't see him doing that as scum in the way he did.
Everyone should post something acknowledging the plan.
I will follow the Ghoul plan tonight, target the person on the list after me.
The whole argument of ash being town because he would have died in the night as scum if the plan had gone correctly seems like exactly the type of thing ash would plan as scum. Also, I really don't understand the unvoting thing. If ash is town, then Faust would be conf!scum to him, and the best thing you can do is vote for conf!scum. So I think I'll vote: ashersky.
Who argued that I would have died at night? What kind of argument is that, even? I literally don't understand it.
If the players which mafia chooses die before the start of the next day, then another player from the required alignment is randomized. However, mafia is allowed (and encouraged) to choose a backup player for each side, who will then be chosen if the first choice dies.Scum could have chosen a backup, therefore faust could have been the sacrifice target.
But why choose a backup? The absolute most sensible thing to do as scum is to assume town plays well enough to follow the simplest plan on the planet and just work around it.
There are no absolute guarantees here, but I'm basing my analysis on known information and most likely decisions. Scum plans for the plan and does what they need to to get what they think is most beneficial to them.
I don't think the unvoting thing tells us anything. Faust has a good point that that slot would be taken up by the other player anyway because if Faust was at L-1, and you were town or scum and knew the other player was the opposite alignment, you would definitely hammer. But you would most certainly hammer as scum anyway.
Also, apropos of nothing -- I think Faust is playing like scum!faust. This is mostly of faust's own notes, given no one seems to see it. This is the blessing and danger of playing many, many, many games and modding even more. There are tics and things that give a player away. It's like poker, I think.
The whole argument of ash being town because he would have died in the night as scum if the plan had gone correctly seems like exactly the type of thing ash would plan as scum. Also, I really don't understand the unvoting thing. If ash is town, then Faust would be conf!scum to him, and the best thing you can do is vote for conf!scum. So I think I'll vote: ashersky.
Who argued that I would have died at night? What kind of argument is that, even? I literally don't understand it.If the players which mafia chooses die before the start of the next day, then another player from the required alignment is randomized. However, mafia is allowed (and encouraged) to choose a backup player for each side, who will then be chosen if the first choice dies.Scum could have chosen a backup, therefore faust could have been the sacrifice target.
But why choose a backup? The absolute most sensible thing to do as scum is to assume town plays well enough to follow the simplest plan on the planet and just work around it.
There are no absolute guarantees here, but I'm basing my analysis on known information and most likely decisions. Scum plans for the plan and does what they need to to get what they think is most beneficial to them.
This is what made me think that. Maybe I'm understanding it wrong.
Also, apropos of nothing -- I think Faust is playing like scum!faust. This is mostly of faust's own notes, given no one seems to see it. This is the blessing and danger of playing many, many, many games and modding even more. There are tics and things that give a player away. It's like poker, I think.
Ya but you seem like you are playing one of your scum games as well. You would also love a Faust/you matchup. You live for that kind of thing.
Obviously scum want to take Faust out early too. Although the counter argument to that is that Faust seems scummier the longer he lives so he would volunteer himself to be the duke person.
You would also totally do the QT wording gambit at the beginning of the game as scum.
Honestly it seems like you have been grabbing for town points and it seems weird to me that you don't really try to build a case on Faust with real reasons, you instead choose to go based on setup things like where the person who died came from in the lineup and that Faust won't unvote.
faust: once the lynch is confirmed, would you do me a favor and go ahead and thank chairs for screwing up his own plan on behalf of your partners?
Also, no need to troll after the lynch is confirmed, you can just own up to being scum.
You're being ridiculous and petty. I haven't even voted yet. I'm just doing a reread. Of course I'm going to find you scummy, from my perspective you have 50% odds of being scum.
What did that post have to do with you?
You know that if I have a 50% chance of being scum, there's another player who also have a 50% chance of being scum?
I suck at math, so someone check that for me.
Town on ash and Jimmmmm. Need to look again for scum reads.
I don't know. This game is weird. Do people seriously believe that it's good to not give reads? Because that is bullshit.
I'm going to reread Jimmmmm. Because his post count stands out.
The whole argument of ash being town because he would have died in the night as scum if the plan had gone correctly seems like exactly the type of thing ash would plan as scum. Also, I really don't understand the unvoting thing. If ash is town, then Faust would be conf!scum to him, and the best thing you can do is vote for conf!scum. So I think I'll vote: ashersky.
Who argued that I would have died at night? What kind of argument is that, even? I literally don't understand it.If the players which mafia chooses die before the start of the next day, then another player from the required alignment is randomized. However, mafia is allowed (and encouraged) to choose a backup player for each side, who will then be chosen if the first choice dies.Scum could have chosen a backup, therefore faust could have been the sacrifice target.
But why choose a backup? The absolute most sensible thing to do as scum is to assume town plays well enough to follow the simplest plan on the planet and just work around it.
There are no absolute guarantees here, but I'm basing my analysis on known information and most likely decisions. Scum plans for the plan and does what they need to to get what they think is most beneficial to them.
This is what made me think that. Maybe I'm understanding it wrong.
My argument is:
1) Scum knew the town plan.
2) Scum assumed it would be followed successfully.
3) Scum chose their duel targets with that in mind and chose duel targets that would absolutely NOT die.
4) Scum chose their NK target to ensure that the ghoul plan would result in scum other than Faust dying.
If you think I'm the scum, just switch the names. Faust points out that if I'm scum and wanted to ensure an ashersky v. Faust duel -- Jimmmm has to be scum, otherwise I'd have died if both chairs and Jimmmm used ghoul correctly.
I'd say that makes me more likely to be town, unless you think Jimmmm is in fact scum. Because with Faust as scum, the actually scum who would die could be anyone from chairs all the way around the list until you get back to Faust.
This also had me read the teamlyle stuff more carefully. Ugh. Hur dur. It is weird. I don't get it. I didn't get it at the time and chose to ignore it. But there is something in there too valuable to ignore. My gut says scum.
Ok, I guess you didn't understand what I was saying. Since there is a possibility of having a backup duel, it makes sense that scum would try this unlikely gamble because if it pays off, they have this argument that ash is making now. The fact that he was so quick to make that argument proves that point further.
Ok, I guess you didn't understand what I was saying. Since there is a possibility of having a backup duel, it makes sense that scum would try this unlikely gamble because if it pays off, they have this argument that ash is making now. The fact that he was so quick to make that argument proves that point further.
I still don't understand what you are saying. Are you saying that scum would purposefully choose a backup duel and let the first person they choose die?
That makes no sense, because we, as town, wouldn't know that happened. For all we know, chairs was the chosen duel and I was the backup.
What gamble are you referencing? What did they do?
Ok, I guess you didn't understand what I was saying. Since there is a possibility of having a backup duel, it makes sense that scum would try this unlikely gamble because if it pays off, they have this argument that ash is making now. The fact that he was so quick to make that argument proves that point further.
I still don't understand what you are saying. Are you saying that scum would purposefully choose a backup duel and let the first person they choose die?
That makes no sense, because we, as town, wouldn't know that happened. For all we know, chairs was the chosen duel and I was the backup.
What gamble are you referencing? What did they do?
In saying that you as scum would choose yourself for the duel, choose a backup duel in case you died, and then NK someone in the player list with no other scum between them and you. That way, if town does everything perfectly, you die and the game goes on, but if someone forgets to submit their ghoul action, you have this argument you can use to convince town you're not scum. That's such a scum!you thing to do.
You making me explain my case is just solidifying my scum read on you.
This is really reminding me of fanfic mafia. Let's not fall for ash's tactics this time.
That you think asking someone to explain their case is scummy is...mystifying.
This is really reminding me of fanfic mafia. Let's not fall for ash's tactics this time.
Remind me again what your role was in that game?
This is really reminding me of fanfic mafia. Let's not fall for ash's tactics this time.
Remind me again what your role was in that game?
My role was it was the second mafia game I ever read, and it made an impression on me.
unvote
Why though?
If ash is town, then Faust would be conf!scum to him, and the best thing you can do is vote for conf!scum.
When he said that, that basically sealed my vote. It's pretty obvious Ashersky blew it at this point.
Have you such a low opinion of me as a player? I have the equivalent of decades of experience on you as a Mafia player.
Ok, I guess you didn't understand what I was saying. Since there is a possibility of having a backup duel, it makes sense that scum would try this unlikely gamble because if it pays off, they have this argument that ash is making now. The fact that he was so quick to make that argument proves that point further.
I still don't understand what you are saying. Are you saying that scum would purposefully choose a backup duel and let the first person they choose die?
That makes no sense, because we, as town, wouldn't know that happened. For all we know, chairs was the chosen duel and I was the backup.
What gamble are you referencing? What did they do?
In saying that you as scum would choose yourself for the duel, choose a backup duel in case you died, and then NK someone in the player list with no other scum between them and you. That way, if town does everything perfectly, you die and the game goes on, but if someone forgets to submit their ghoul action, you have this argument you can use to convince town you're not scum. That's such a scum!you thing to do.
You making me explain my case is just solidifying my scum read on you.
That you think asking someone to explain their case is scummy is...mystifying.
That's quite the convoluted plan you have there. So let me figure out the steps you think I took, choosing the simplest possible road:
--chairs comes up with a plan that kills one scum for sure.
--I decide I need to make a plan of some sort...
--I decide that I can use the combination of the back-up selection plus chairs's plan to somehow get towncred
--I make a post about wanting to be the choice for the duel
--I choose myself for the duel, along with Faust
--I choose a backup scum partner in case the ghoul plan results in me dying
--I choose an NK that will definitely hit me if everyone between me and the NK is town and follows the plan
--I hope someone messes up so that I am actually in the duel and then can say that I must be town because I am in the duel?
Man, why didn't I just choose an NK target that would hit some other scum so I could be in the duel for sure and get whatever towncred you think I was planning to get?
Full reads lists are useless if you mislynch me. The scum team changes, remember?
I think most likely scum are Jreggie and one of Sep/igu.
I think most likely town is gkrieg until he gets flipped to scum. Also Jimmmmm.
I think chairs was the NK and jreggie was supposed to die from the Ghoul plan. That leaves me at everyone town from 1 to 5.
Full reads lists are useless if you mislynch me. The scum team changes, remember?
I think most likely scum are Jreggie and one of Sep/igu.
I think most likely town is gkrieg until he gets flipped to scum. Also Jimmmmm.
I think chairs was the NK and jreggie was supposed to die from the Ghoul plan. That leaves me at everyone town from 1 to 5.
Full reads lists are useless if you mislynch me. The scum team changes, remember?
I think most likely scum are Jreggie and one of Sep/igu.
I think most likely town is gkrieg until he gets flipped to scum. Also Jimmmmm.
I think chairs was the NK and jreggie was supposed to die from the Ghoul plan. That leaves me at everyone town from 1 to 5.
So you think that they targeted chairs with the NK, and that everyone after him until J Reggie is town? That seems like a huge gap. Why does it look like they were going to sacrifice J Reggie?
Full reads lists are useless if you mislynch me. The scum team changes, remember?
I think most likely scum are Jreggie and one of Sep/igu.
I think most likely town is gkrieg until he gets flipped to scum. Also Jimmmmm.
I think chairs was the NK and jreggie was supposed to die from the Ghoul plan. That leaves me at everyone town from 1 to 5.
True that the scum team changes, but two of their members will stay the same and one of them will have to be in the duel the next time around.
Full reads lists are useless if you mislynch me. The scum team changes, remember?
I think most likely scum are Jreggie and one of Sep/igu.
I think most likely town is gkrieg until he gets flipped to scum. Also Jimmmmm.
I think chairs was the NK and jreggie was supposed to die from the Ghoul plan. That leaves me at everyone town from 1 to 5.
So you think that they targeted chairs with the NK, and that everyone after him until J Reggie is town? That seems like a huge gap. Why does it look like they were going to sacrifice J Reggie?
Might seem like a huge gap, but remember that in the world of random assignments, anyone could be scum, in any order. Could be three in a row. So location in and of itself isn't an alignment tell.
If the team I made up of the players I think it is, JReggie is the weakest, and therefore the one you sacrifice. He has a hard time looking townie ever, and he definitely loses most duels.
Full reads lists are useless if you mislynch me. The scum team changes, remember?
I think most likely scum are Jreggie and one of Sep/igu.
I think most likely town is gkrieg until he gets flipped to scum. Also Jimmmmm.
I think chairs was the NK and jreggie was supposed to die from the Ghoul plan. That leaves me at everyone town from 1 to 5.
If the team I made up of the players I think it is, JReggie is the weakest, and therefore the one you sacrifice. He has a hard time looking townie ever, and he definitely loses most duels.
Word. Dunno where you're getting this from ash, since reggies one completed scum game so far was solid gold.If the team I made up of the players I think it is, JReggie is the weakest, and therefore the one you sacrifice. He has a hard time looking townie ever, and he definitely loses most duels.
Hey, I can look townie if I need to!
My favorite thing about being mislynched is all the I told you so posts I can make.Self-voting, really?
vote: ashersky
My favorite thing about being mislynched is all the I told you so posts I can make.Self-voting, really?
vote: ashersky
Ash, are you just saying I'm scum because I'm pushing your lynch?
Full reads lists are useless if you mislynch me. The scum team changes, remember?
I think most likely scum are Jreggie and one of Sep/igu.
I think most likely town is gkrieg until he gets flipped to scum. Also Jimmmmm.
I think chairs was the NK and jreggie was supposed to die from the Ghoul plan. That leaves me at everyone town from 1 to 5.
So you think that they targeted chairs with the NK, and that everyone after him until J Reggie is town? That seems like a huge gap. Why does it look like they were going to sacrifice J Reggie?
Might seem like a huge gap, but remember that in the world of random assignments, anyone could be scum, in any order. Could be three in a row. So location in and of itself isn't an alignment tell.
If the team I made up of the players I think it is, JReggie is the weakest, and therefore the one you sacrifice. He has a hard time looking townie ever, and he definitely loses most duels.
So don't you think that they would nominate him for the duel and have faust as a backup plan?
Ash, are you just saying I'm scum because I'm pushing your lynch?
The whole teamlyle thing is also regrettableRegrettable, but he brought it on himself.
Guys. Enough of the knee jerk voting.The only way you could know for sure is if you're scum.....
The wagon will be telling, but seriously. 0% chance ash is scum
But seriously. Haven't had the chance to read all of d2, but what is the case on ashersky?
But seriously. Haven't had the chance to read all of d2, but what is the case on ashersky?
He's being crazy just like crazy Ash in Soap Opera who had us both convinced he was town there too.
Also keep in mind that scum has daychat, so they might be distributing who presents which cases and such.
Guys. Enough of the knee jerk voting.
The wagon will be telling, but seriously. 0% chance ash is scum
Not convinced Ash is scum. Faust is super scummy too.
It's a good duel.
Lots of stuff happened. I travelled all day and don't really feel like going into detail right now. Really this duel is coming at the most inconvenient time for me, which should already convince you that I did not choose the duel.
Expect more detailed responses tomorrow.
Also his point about faust unvoting is spot-on. We need majority lynches without those dueling each other. Wagons are much more informative that way.
Submitted my Ghoul on ash. Everyone else should do likewise (not on ash though).Submitted on josephSubmitted on IGG Rush.
The people who talked about Ghouling. I submitted my action, and IG didn't die, so it's very likely both of us are town. Jimmmmm and gkreig could both be bluffing and just saying it (as could I honestly).
Hi. I would like to have a plan. Unfortunately, I don't think there is one to be had.
There is, in fact, a huge plan to be had. And I have it.
Also, as is amazingly awesome, DAMA.
Faust said Ash didn't have the plan, chairs did, but Ashersky's first post is about having a plan.
For the record, I never claimed the ghoul plan was my own. I'd like to see someone back up that lie.
Also the fact that he refused to unvote is 100% proof that I was right. You'll see that and I'll ask that you quote this post once either of us are lynched.
Have you such a low opinion of me as a player? I have the equivalent of decades of experience on you as a Mafia player.
There are many examples of times when voting for conf!scum may not be the best course of action. Sometimes you pull a Jimmmm and try to root out partners, for example.
The duel mechanic forces players to vote for town or scum. Only scum know with certainty which they are voting for. We only care about the two scum not in the duel. You need to leave as many slots available for the not duel players to vote.
There's also the fact that the setup actual rewards mislynches by giving all remaining town a chance to be converted to the scum team and win. So it may seem to some of the town players that the best play is actually to mislynch every time and hope to get converted.
faust: once the lynch is confirmed, would you do me a favor and go ahead and thank chairs for screwing up his own plan on behalf of your partners?
Also, no need to troll after the lynch is confirmed, you can just own up to being scum.
You're being ridiculous and petty. I haven't even voted yet. I'm just doing a reread. Of course I'm going to find you scummy, from my perspective you have 50% odds of being scum.
What did that post have to do with you?
You know that if I have a 50% chance of being scum, there's another player who also have a 50% chance of being scum?
I suck at math, so someone check that for me.
Would town!me be tempted to break the promise to hammer scum? Sure. But I wouldn't -- because why would anyone trust me after that?
But it's more the dismissive tone Faust used to completely skirt the idea -- that's a scum!faust trait every single time. Town!faust is helpful and thoughtful. Scum!faust is haughty and bossy.
1) He was fairly inactive and mostly useless on D1 (from a leadership / theory / scum hunting perspective).
2) He has his scum persona turned on.
3) He's sitting back here on D2 letting everyone else do the work for him.
Also, this duel auto-death thing messes with stats -- how do I count the auto-kill when you win the duel?
Either way before either of you are lynched, could you give us a full reads list? Like thoughts on every person?
1) He was fairly inactive and mostly useless on D1 (from a leadership / theory / scum hunting perspective).
2) He has his scum persona turned on.
3) He's sitting back here on D2 letting everyone else do the work for him.
1. Yeah, sorry, I was too much preoccupied with the other game.
2. Not true. But if it were, man, that's a pretty good case.
3. I'm not taking that shit. Here I am, spending time I could also spend on finishing my Master's thesis or writing applications to deal with this. I haven't been around yesterday because I was sitting in a bus for 9.5 hours with little to no internet access (I don't own a smartphone). I thought it was agreed that questioning this kind of stuff is bad form.
Also, this duel auto-death thing messes with stats -- how do I count the auto-kill when you win the duel?
Well, according to the setup, the auto-kill is a substitute for scum's nightkill.
Guys. Enough of the knee jerk voting.
The wagon will be telling, but seriously. 0% chance ash is scum
But he is not being crazy! He is making very good, well reasoned points. Even like ash is saying, there is no case on faust. The perfect player for scum to pick to duel.
1) He was fairly inactive and mostly useless on D1 (from a leadership / theory / scum hunting perspective).
2) He has his scum persona turned on.
3) He's sitting back here on D2 letting everyone else do the work for him.
1. Yeah, sorry, I was too much preoccupied with the other game.
2. Not true. But if it were, man, that's a pretty good case.
3. I'm not taking that shit. Here I am, spending time I could also spend on finishing my Master's thesis or writing applications to deal with this. I haven't been around yesterday because I was sitting in a bus for 9.5 hours with little to no internet access (I don't own a smartphone). I thought it was agreed that questioning this kind of stuff is bad form.
Your anger at #3 is misplaced. When I posted that, you were in fact doing what I said. You are NOW taking action, which is a good refutation of #3, but it was valid when I posted it. No need to take offense.
I don't think calling out inactivity is poor form. You might say that about me calling out your other post as AtE poor form, but not this one.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.I still can't decide these two. But this phrase is one I have never used as town and several times as scum. It smacks of "wrong reasons" scum.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.I still can't decide these two. But this phrase is one I have never used as town and several times as scum. It smacks of "wrong reasons" scum.
One thing is for sure though, ash cannot find me scummy for the wrong reasons.
I agree in general. If I had the time to read you properly I would. And I will get there. Meanwhile I give what I can. And that comment did stand out as scummy.You can't have your cake and eat it too.I still can't decide these two. But this phrase is one I have never used as town and several times as scum. It smacks of "wrong reasons" scum.
It's a pet peeve of mine if people say "A is scummy" and "not-A is scummy" because it shows they only want to find reasons to find someone scummy rather than looking at posts to figure out if the person really is scummy.
Also his point about faust unvoting is spot-on. We need majority lynches without those dueling each other. Wagons are much more informative that way.
So you say town participant of the duel should go in basically hated for some information in the future that would be rendered at least somewhat useless if town is lynched and conversion take place? Also suppose town player do this, scum player at L-1 and then town player posts. Even most dense of his scum buddies would see this as chance to hammer, as by this point who is scum is obvious. So only "benefits" is mesed up vote count. Can someone rebuff this?
I rate atgument about player sequncing as applied to ash as WIFOM.
That still leaves me in slight favor of lynchinh ash, but not enogh to vote just yet
Also his point about faust unvoting is spot-on. We need majority lynches without those dueling each other. Wagons are much more informative that way.
So you say town participant of the duel should go in basically hated for some information in the future that would be rendered at least somewhat useless if town is lynched and conversion take place? Also suppose town player do this, scum player at L-1 and then town player posts. Even most dense of his scum buddies would see this as chance to hammer, as by this point who is scum is obvious. So only "benefits" is mesed up vote count. Can someone rebuff this?
I rate atgument about player sequncing as applied to ash as WIFOM.
That still leaves me in slight favor of lynchinh ash, but not enogh to vote just yet
Ash, care to answer this?
Also his point about faust unvoting is spot-on. We need majority lynches without those dueling each other. Wagons are much more informative that way.
So you say town participant of the duel should go in basically hated for some information in the future that would be rendered at least somewhat useless if town is lynched and conversion take place? Also suppose town player do this, scum player at L-1 and then town player posts. Even most dense of his scum buddies would see this as chance to hammer, as by this point who is scum is obvious. So only "benefits" is mesed up vote count. Can someone rebuff this?
I rate atgument about player sequncing as applied to ash as WIFOM.
That still leaves me in slight favor of lynchinh ash, but not enogh to vote just yet
Ash, care to answer this?
I guess I disagree with your premise. The idea that the town player in a duel is hated seems off. If anything, they are both "hated" since you can assume that the opposition in the duel is clearly voting for them.
I think it is better to think of it as making both players Loved. They each take one more player to lynch than usual. So if it's 6 to lynch, one vote is already in place (duel opponent), so it only takes 5, which is Hated. By saying that auto-vote from the opponent isn't cast, we are making 7 players vote for a player.
You are right in the sense that if town is at L-1, the scum just hammers, so the plan is somewhat negated. But I do think there is value in seeing scum get to L-1 and the town duel opponent NOT hammering right away. If scum quick hammers their partner at that point, well, that's pointing out who scum is. That is helpful to town.
So I guess I disagree or don't understand your point here. I want scum other than Faust to have to vote for me to get me lynched. At the very least, I want scum to have to vote. By reducing the number of votes required to lynch by one, that becomes less likely. So, duelists shouldn't vote.
faust: once the lynch is confirmed, would you do me a favor and go ahead and thank chairs for screwing up his own plan on behalf of your partners?
Also, no need to troll after the lynch is confirmed, you can just own up to being scum.
You're being ridiculous and petty. I haven't even voted yet. I'm just doing a reread. Of course I'm going to find you scummy, from my perspective you have 50% odds of being scum.
What did that post have to do with you?
You know that if I have a 50% chance of being scum, there's another player who also have a 50% chance of being scum?
I suck at math, so someone check that for me.
Gotta agree that ii's post there did not make a ton of sense.
Vote: Faust
Time to make the hard choice
Vote: Faust
Time to make the hard choice
How towny is that? (Okay, not very.)It is still one guaranteed scum NK if we do the plan. It fails if anyone uses their power on a different night or outside the plan. I think we should do it N1.
I would assume that scum can no-kill.
Except they cannot:The Mafia NK is compulsory. A town-player will be randomized if no choice was submitted.
Well, then let's do it. Looks super-broken, but I guess them's the rules.
You just seemed scummier in your defense.
You just seemed scummier in your defense.
You're not giving me a whole lot to work with :(
So I don't really know what to think here. My gut still tells me ash is scum, but I see him finding me scummy as more likely to come from town. But I honestly can't see Faust as scum here.
Also this was L-2, which is really L-1 because ash is not voting. Just be careful what you do from here on.
Hi. I would like to have a plan. Unfortunately, I don't think there is one to be had.Really? There wasn't a plan to be found? With hindsight this seems scummy, since there was a clever plan to be had.
It makes me sad that I am still not scum with ash, now that I finally have the chance again.True enough.
Interesting that faust thought there was a no kill option available, town probably look at the setup a bit less, so minor town points.It is still one guaranteed scum NK if we do the plan. It fails if anyone uses their power on a different night or outside the plan. I think we should do it N1.
I would assume that scum can no-kill.
Except they cannot:The Mafia NK is compulsory. A town-player will be randomized if no choice was submitted.
Well, then let's do it. Looks super-broken, but I guess them's the rules.
I may have to retract that townread on ash sadly... something just doesn't add up. He claims to have thought about this setup for a bit, yet he didn't know there are only 1-shot ghouls. If scum!ash had the town PM available, I could see him going for this kind of fake.So neither ash or faust has read the setup properly. Guess that nulls the minor town read above.
Meh.
Ash wanted to do the N1 plan before faust did, so ash seems townier from this.I will follow the Ghoul plan tonight, target the person on the list after me.
Seprix does have a point that we may want to delay the usage of our nightkill (which it is, effectively). The main reason against it is that scum have more power to drive discussion in a direction of their choosing the longer all of them remain alive.No, just no.
I don't know. This game is weird. Do people seriously believe that it's good to not give reads? Because that is bullshit.We had this discussion in thread (#313-319), and I disagree.
Late onto the mislynch, but the vote helps it happen.Vote: Seprix
This as well. Should I hammer you?
You'll have to wait until I'm less tired and less drunk.
+1. Though as he unvoted himself he is at L-2 now
You're right. Vote: teamlyle
First post, and a towny post- would be townier if he'd actually given reasons though.Hi. I would like to have a plan. Unfortunately, I don't think there is one to be had.
There is, in fact, a huge plan to be had. And I have it.
Also, as is amazingly awesome, DAMA.
Let me lay out out for you, though.Agree with this- both the no reads and the plan.
NO ONE GIVE READS LISTS.
Ghoul is our strongest tool, guys. Like, scum should be super scared to kill anyone due to the redirection of the kill thing. We need to lynch three scum or Ghoul three scum or some mix of those two. NKs are our friends if the towniest players do a good jobo f redirectioning hte kills.
If schum knows who we think ar scum, that's a bad thing. So no reads lists in day 1. Capisce?
Someone should check it to be sure. But I think that's right.
Scum ought to be super angry in their QT right now. Can't we just do this every night and win?
Not read the setup properly- null since faust also didn't read setup properly at another point.
Also, I'm a mason. My partner will confirm.Non-serious post. Minorly towny, since scum tend to be more serious.
Agree with most of this. We found a loophole, and should have been able to exploit it.I almost feel bad about the plan since it's one guaranteed mafia nk. It does limit us later in the game since we won't have any PR though, but I still think it's probably worth it.
If we can lynch properly today that puts us in a great spot.
Don't feel bad -- it's no worse than your perfect vigging in that game with the Chinese warriors in it.
Also, our PR kind of sucks horribly, so using it to guarantee a mafia dies is pretty awesome.
Again, non-serious post.You know, can't really say since we aren't doing readslists this game. I seriously have no clue what I am going to do. Not doing readslists is fun and exciting and different. But tough.
We're co-ordinating the Ghoul powers, so the reason to not do reads lists is null and void anyway.
This is right.
Reads list!
1. Dune
2. 1Q84
3. Age of Myth
4. Othello
That's like the good ole days. I'm almost double the nearest poster, who is surprisingly JIMMMMM.Encouraging posting is good.
Townpoints for Jimmmmmm for being so active.
Scumponts for Jimmmmmm for earning townpoints.
faust is strangely absent. He's usually the top in post numbers. Iguana/Haddock/Joseph are in the sweet acti-lurking scum slots.
vote: joseph
vote: teamlyleEarlier vote on the mislynch than faust. I'm leaning towards town for that, as teamlyle was anti-town for not wanting to follow plan.
L-1
You made the right call. I'm town.Vote: faust for what it's worth.
vote: faust
Joseph's post-hammer switch is...odd.Which post-hammer switch? I had an intent to vote on faust:
The D2 content hasn't given me much- a serious of long arguments.
Nothing much here says faust is towny.
And not a lot says ash is scummy.
Therefore, Intent to effectively hammer (if I vote, it's L-1 on faust, and ash could then just hammer).
By the way, I love how there is no rest period between Dueling nights.
Final Vote Count Day 2
ashersky (3): faust, J Reggie, Egorkfaust (7): Jimmmmm, gkrieg13, iguanaiguana, Haddock, Seprix, ashersky, Joseph2302
Not Voting (1): e
With 11 alive, it taok 7 to lynch.
Really Joseph shouldn't be on this wagon though... It only took 6 to lynch
Yeah, Ashersky was just such an easy target, and there was nothing inherently wrong with Faust that I could see. I got over my initial revulsion and gave it a second look. It made total sense to pit town!Ash against towny Faust.
I do agree with e that Seprix looks pretty scummy from the whole thing as well. Especially because scum has daychat, and faust probably told him to just bus at that point.
I do agree with e that Seprix looks pretty scummy from the whole thing as well. Especially because scum has daychat, and faust probably told him to just bus at that point.
Wrong. You're not thinking this through.
Wow I look bad :(. Guess I can't trust my gut reads anymore.
I do agree with e that Seprix looks pretty scummy from the whole thing as well. Especially because scum has daychat, and faust probably told him to just bus at that point.
Wrong. You're not thinking this through.
How so?
Not to mention, nobody was going to finish off Faust until I moved to vote for him.
Not to mention, nobody was going to finish off Faust until I moved to vote for him.
False
I do agree with e that Seprix looks pretty scummy from the whole thing as well. Especially because scum has daychat, and faust probably told him to just bus at that point.
Wrong. You're not thinking this through.
How so?
Think of it this way. Why conspicuously jump off and just magically change my mind through some gut read? Why not build some pseudo-case? There were plenty of those done. I'm not a lazy scum player. In addition, what did bussing Faust give me if I was scum? Nothing. It only gets people looking in my direction. If I stuck with my Ashersky read, nobody would have batted an eye.
Not to mention, nobody was going to finish off Faust until I moved to vote for him.
False
True.
Final Vote Count Day 1
Seprix (2): e, teamlyle
J Reggie (1): Jimmmmm
gkrieg13 (1): Haddock
Joseph2302 (1): Egorkteamlyle (7): J Reggie, gkrieg13, iguanaiguana, Joseph2302, ashersky, faust, Seprix
iguanaiguana (1): chairs
With 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch.
Reading end of the duel. Egork comes across scummy and Joseph very townie
Gkrieg also comes across slightly scummy for his progression from ash to faust.
Wouldn't be surprised by gkrieg/seprix remaining scum
Not to mention, nobody was going to finish off Faust until I moved to vote for him.Yes I was.
vote: e
If you don't get lynched today, I hope you choose to duel me
Ash, you should really unvote yourself.
Reading end of the duel. Egork comes across scummy and Joseph very townie
Gkrieg also comes across slightly scummy for his progression from ash to faust.
Wouldn't be surprised by gkrieg/seprix remaining scum
How does that come off as scummy at all?
Reading end of the duel. Egork comes across scummy and Joseph very townie
Gkrieg also comes across slightly scummy for his progression from ash to faust.
Wouldn't be surprised by gkrieg/seprix remaining scum
How does that come off as scummy at all?
Coming out gung-ho against ashersky without explaining, adding explanation later. Then ash posts some stuff defending him. I come out strong for ash. People start shifting over. Scum needed a short duel with a quick death to win there, and you realized (along with your scum buddy seprix) that faust was going to lose. So you shift over to the winning duel
He'd done other crazy stuff between me saying that and just now: hence my earlier post saying I didn't want to vote him. ;) seriously, weird-shit!Seprix is town!Seprix. He's like RR in that sense, but a different kind of weird.I think it will be pretty easy for scum to know who to challenge anyway
thats not an ambiguously confident statement at all
I don't think we should be talking about this at all. I already have a game plan that will be unveiled after tonight. No more talking about this, please. The less information, the better.
I say lynch someone and move on. Anyone, really. It doesn't matter too much, since there are no reads. Those will be formed after tonight.
Well... anyone said something about "Seprix hasn't done anything batshit crazy yet"? There you go.
Also Seprix is more likely town with this. I can vote: e instead.
And yeah, gkrieg, lyle's comment was totally obvious and not remotely antitown. Your misunderstanding of it feels intentional. vote: gkrieg
And yeah, gkrieg, lyle's comment was totally obvious and not remotely antitown. Your misunderstanding of it feels intentional. vote: gkrieg
I guess I understand it now looking back over it. When he was so down-trodden, it really did seem like he had just given up.
I'm not sure I understand how a misunderstanding of that post warrants a vote. Like even if it was deliberate, how would that be scummy?
I still think he is scum that felt like he was caught after he was under some pressure.
Why was my switch from ash to Faust scummy? And how was being on the teamlyle mislynch scummy? He basically claimed scum so I voted for him
Oh man you're right. Sorry I just got confused by this post
v
That's fine. Your QT says 1-shot and mine doesn't? Willing to die for that, no problem.
Vote: ashersky
Okay, there's no way I'm not getting lynched now. vote: teamlyle
Could you guys please tell me what I could've done better besides messing this up though? I'd appreciate it, thanks.
On first read teamlyle also felt pretty scummy, but reading back through, he just seems like newish town.
I do agree with e that Seprix looks pretty scummy from the whole thing as well. Especially because scum has daychat, and faust probably told him to just bus at that point.
Wrong. You're not thinking this through.
How so?
Think of it this way. Why conspicuously jump off and just magically change my mind through some gut read? Why not build some pseudo-case? There were plenty of those done. I'm not a lazy scum player. In addition, what did bussing Faust give me if I was scum? Nothing. It only gets people looking in my direction. If I stuck with my Ashersky read, nobody would have batted an eye.
Because you guys talked about it in your daychat and decided that ash was going to win the duel. So you loudly and hesitantly switch to ash despite your gut read against him
I do agree with e that Seprix looks pretty scummy from the whole thing as well. Especially because scum has daychat, and faust probably told him to just bus at that point.
Wrong. You're not thinking this through.
How so?
Think of it this way. Why conspicuously jump off and just magically change my mind through some gut read? Why not build some pseudo-case? There were plenty of those done. I'm not a lazy scum player. In addition, what did bussing Faust give me if I was scum? Nothing. It only gets people looking in my direction. If I stuck with my Ashersky read, nobody would have batted an eye.
Because you guys talked about it in your daychat and decided that ash was going to win the duel. So you loudly and hesitantly switch to ash despite your gut read against him
So your argument is *because daychat!* Well, I claim you said that because of the daychat!
Why on earth would I assume Ash was going to win? Why not just sit tight where I was? Nobody would 'suspect' me as scum if I stayed put. My switch was way too open and flashy. I mean, I'm getting shit for lynching scum. Ludicrous.
Final Vote Count Day 2
ashersky (3): faust, J Reggie, Egorkfaust (6): Jimmmmm, gkrieg13, iguanaiguana, Haddock, Seprix, ashersky
Not Voting (2): e, Joseph2302
With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.
Why on earth would I assume Ash was going to win? Why not just sit tight where I was? Nobody would 'suspect' me as scum if I stayed put. My switch was way too open and flashy. I mean, I'm getting shit for lynching scum. Ludicrous.
No, lynching scum is good. Being open and flashy is what I think is scummy.
The thing is, I know scum bussed.Final Vote Count Day 2
ashersky (3): faust, J Reggie, Egorkfaust (6): Jimmmmm, gkrieg13, iguanaiguana, Haddock, Seprix, ashersky
Not Voting (2): e, Joseph2302
With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.
I know I am town. I have very strong feelings Joseph is town. So unless j Reggie and egork are both scum (I dont think they both are, maybe one) then scum bussed. I think it was a relatively early bus, and I think that scum is you, seprix
Why on earth would I assume Ash was going to win? Why not just sit tight where I was? Nobody would 'suspect' me as scum if I stayed put. My switch was way too open and flashy. I mean, I'm getting shit for lynching scum. Ludicrous.
No, lynching scum is good. Being open and flashy is what I think is scummy.
The thing is, I know scum bussed.Final Vote Count Day 2
ashersky (3): faust, J Reggie, Egorkfaust (6): Jimmmmm, gkrieg13, iguanaiguana, Haddock, Seprix, ashersky
Not Voting (2): e, Joseph2302
With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.
I know I am town. I have very strong feelings Joseph is town. So unless j Reggie and egork are both scum (I dont think they both are, maybe one) then scum bussed. I think it was a relatively early bus, and I think that scum is you, seprix
Wait but you're voting for me. So you think that Seprix and me both bussed faust, and that J Reggie and EgorK are both town? Really?
Like if me and Seprix stay on the ashersky wagon, we make the wagons 5-4 in ash's favor. Why would we ever switch off that wagon?
Why on earth would I assume Ash was going to win? Why not just sit tight where I was? Nobody would 'suspect' me as scum if I stayed put. My switch was way too open and flashy. I mean, I'm getting shit for lynching scum. Ludicrous.
No, lynching scum is good. Being open and flashy is what I think is scummy.
The thing is, I know scum bussed.Final Vote Count Day 2
ashersky (3): faust, J Reggie, Egorkfaust (6): Jimmmmm, gkrieg13, iguanaiguana, Haddock, Seprix, ashersky
Not Voting (2): e, Joseph2302
With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.
I know I am town. I have very strong feelings Joseph is town. So unless j Reggie and egork are both scum (I dont think they both are, maybe one) then scum bussed. I think it was a relatively early bus, and I think that scum is you, seprix
Wait but you're voting for me. So you think that Seprix and me both bussed faust, and that J Reggie and EgorK are both town? Really?
Like if me and Seprix stay on the ashersky wagon, we make the wagons 5-4 in ash's favor. Why would we ever switch off that wagon?
I am voting seprix
And yeah, gkrieg, lyle's comment was totally obvious and not remotely antitown. Your misunderstanding of it feels intentional. vote: gkrieg
I guess I understand it now looking back over it. When he was so down-trodden, it really did seem like he had just given up.
I'm not sure I understand how a misunderstanding of that post warrants a vote. Like even if it was deliberate, how would that be scummy?
I still think he is scum that felt like he was caught after he was under some pressure.
Still forced. Tunnels teamlyle from here to the lynch.Why was my switch from ash to Faust scummy? And how was being on the teamlyle mislynch scummy? He basically claimed scum so I voted for him
Trying to rewrite how the whole lynch went down is scummy. Gkrieg voted teamlyle for this:Oh man you're right. Sorry I just got confused by this post
v
That's fine. Your QT says 1-shot and mine doesn't? Willing to die for that, no problem.
Vote: ashersky
Okay, there's no way I'm not getting lynched now. vote: teamlyle
Could you guys please tell me what I could've done better besides messing this up though? I'd appreciate it, thanks.
Then tunnels him. Teamlyle didn't claim scum until the very end. And this fits exactly in with gkrieg's previous read:On first read teamlyle also felt pretty scummy, but reading back through, he just seems like newish town.
But then a self-vote provides gkrieg enough to vote and tunnel until newplayer!lyle implodes and claims scum.
I almost like voting gkrieg more than seprix right now.
Please, a case.
Seprix is voting me because ashersky grew suspicious of me and scum!seprix wants an easy way to justify his mislynching me.
Gkrieg is voting me because OMGUS
Not sure why jimmmmm is voting me other than wagons are cool.
Final Vote Count Day 1
Seprix (2): e, teamlyle
J Reggie (1): Jimmmmm
gkrieg13 (1): Haddock
Joseph2302 (1): Egorkteamlyle (7): J Reggie, gkrieg13, iguanaiguana, Joseph2302, ashersky, faust, Seprix
iguanaiguana (1): chairs
With 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch.
Final Vote Count Day 2
ashersky (3): faust, J Reggie, Egorkfaust (6): Jimmmmm, gkrieg13, iguanaiguana, Haddock, Seprix, ashersky
Not Voting (2): e, Joseph2302
With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.
Anymore thoughts from anyone? I would be willing to explore a J Reggie lynchSame.
e did not even vote. Come on, that's incredibly scummy! He doesn't want to stand out, and he didn't want to bus his partner.True, e didn't vote- neither did I technically, since you voted out of nowhere.
Still waiting for seprix to back up his vote with something. Anything.
Oh wait, I am scum because I didn't rush to end the duel 6 days before the deadline. Yep, got me. Guilty as charged. Well, guilty of not voting. Totally not scum. I will throw together an organized post compiling why seprix is scum soon I hope.
Agreed. I don't get a scum vibe from him in general though.Still waiting for seprix to back up his vote with something. Anything.Agreed.
Oh wait, I am scum because I didn't rush to end the duel 6 days before the deadline. Yep, got me. Guilty as charged. Well, guilty of not voting. Totally not scum. I will throw together an organized post compiling why seprix is scum soon I hope.
This sounds like scum e.
Seprix and gkrieg both look bad to me. gkrieg slightly worse maybe.
vote: gkrieg
I don't remember finding Reggie scummy this game, but he plays a great scum game so I'm willing to explore that option I guess.Agreed. I don't get a scum vibe from him in general though.Still waiting for seprix to back up his vote with something. Anything.Agreed.
Oh wait, I am scum because I didn't rush to end the duel 6 days before the deadline. Yep, got me. Guilty as charged. Well, guilty of not voting. Totally not scum. I will throw together an organized post compiling why seprix is scum soon I hope.
This sounds like scum e.
I think it will be pretty easy for scum to know who to challenge anyway
thats not an ambiguously confident statement at all
I don't think we should be talking about this at all. I already have a game plan that will be unveiled after tonight. No more talking about this, please. The less information, the better.
I say lynch someone and move on. Anyone, really. It doesn't matter too much, since there are no reads. Those will be formed after tonight.
Wait looking at the player order, doesn't Jimmmm like have to be scum? With chairs dying and ashersky being the dueler like Jimmmm has to be scumHuh.
The Duelling is compulsive. If the players which mafia chooses die before the start of the next day, then another player from the required alignment is randomized. However, mafia is allowed (and encouraged) to choose a backup player for each side, who will then be chosen if the first choice dies.
I guess this could have been planned in order to mess with our heads. You set up a backup duel (which is actually the duel you want) and then make your primary duel one that is likely to have a death.
Faust is more than capable of that. unvote
I guess this could have been planned in order to mess with our heads. You set up a backup duel (which is actually the duel you want) and then make your primary duel one that is likely to have a death.
Faust is more than capable of that. unvote
So their primary duel was chairs?
What if scum decides not to kill anybody? What if there are two scum in a row on the list, conveniently or by accident? I don't like this plan, it feels like a trap. I think we should wait to do this until we're certain we are in a losing position and want a free kill.
To be clear, this plan does NOT tell us about anyone's alignment. It just guarantees one dead mafia.
Hmm. I guess I was wrong. Maybe it is okay. It just feels too easy.
I have a serious theory here. I think Ashersky was trying to pull a fast one on us with the Mason claim. Like, what is he even talking about? There's no proof whatsoever that there are any factions but 1-shot Ghouls, and I don't think there are any other factions. It even says so in the set-up. There's nothing there.
Sorry, I can't let it go that Ashersky said there would be someone to verify his Mason claim. Ashersky is clearly lying and needs to die.
Every time I think I find something, it doesn't work at all.
I'm pretty sure the plan should work. I couldn't find anything except for someone forgetting to make the action
I wasn't talking about that. :P
Yeah, I guess we can take a guaranteed scum kill. It's free information.
In addition, before ANY LYNCHING HAPPENS, we need to set up that list thing.
This might be a game where I'd rather lynch someone saying a bunch of safe things, so as to not stand out.
Has anybody seen Iguana even posting? I'd be fine with lynching him. He's doing nothing but hopping on wagons.
I'm thinking about hammering.
Nah, there's no need. We have 5 days.
That settles it, then. I'll end the day if there are no objections.
vote: EgorK
Egor is in this game?
Supposedly. #5 on the player list.
Well, he should have confirmed at least, so at some point he might show up.
Vote: Seprix for now. Something feels wrong. I can't quite place it.
Seprix does have a point that we may want to delay the usage of our nightkill (which it is, effectively). The main reason against it is that scum have more power to drive discussion in a direction of their choosing the longer all of them remain alive.
I think it will be pretty easy for scum to know who to challenge anyway
thats not an ambiguously confident statement at all
I don't think we should be talking about this at all. I already have a game plan that will be unveiled after tonight. No more talking about this, please. The less information, the better.
I say lynch someone and move on. Anyone, really. It doesn't matter too much, since there are no reads. Those will be formed after tonight.
Well... anyone said something about "Seprix hasn't done anything batshit crazy yet"? There you go.
Also Seprix is more likely town with this. I can vote: e instead.
I guess this could have been planned in order to mess with our heads. You set up a backup duel (which is actually the duel you want) and then make your primary duel one that is likely to have a death.
Faust is more than capable of that. unvote
So their primary duel was chairs?
I think the primary duel was Ash, but they had a town backup in case they ended up shooting Ash. They shot as far away from Faust as possible because Faust wanted to be the duel and because there was a decently long space of town players between Faust and the next scum who could screw up.
Now that I think about it, not even Seprix is cleared. Seprix/Faust can both be scum together and they shot for me, and I ghouled to Chairs, who failed. In that case, shooting for me would be the obvious best choice, especially if the third scum isn't Jim.
That's all hypothetical, and I don't particularly think Seprix is scum, but we just can't use the player order to determine scum. We need to use reads.
Gkrieg is totally town, Seprix kinda likely town, I'm town, don't really want to lynch Haddock here.
Let's kill someone else. I like e the best.
- Lucky is he who is not bothered by the stupid things other people say -We don't need to rush into anything right now tgwn- still 5 days.
Vote Count 3.3
Seprix (1): e
e (3): Seprix, gkrieg13, iguanaiguana
Not Voting (5): Joseph2302, J Reggie, Egork, Haddock, Jimmmmm
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends at Aug 5, 17:00 forum time. That is in 5 days and 0+ hours.
Yeah, tried to post yesterday but the forum was being weird.
Also, vote people for this game. Using meta is cool, but going outside the Mafia universe is not
Off the top of my head:
gkrieg13-scummier. On the teamlyle mislynch and scummy movement off Faust and onto ashersky in the duel
Joseph2302-town. 98% certainty
Haddock- townie (ish). Doesn't seem to have a huge footprint in the game, but maybe because others are stealing the spotlight. He plays a good scum game, but leaning town for now
e-IC
Egork- always a bit difficult to tell. Votes ashersky fairly late in the day, had he done it earlier could very well have lynched ash. Off wagon D1, slight scum lean.
J Reggie - scummy. Self aware scummy type. Plus posts from d1 and such.
Seprix- scummy. I can compile a case in one post later, by for now you can read the d3 dialogue and make the educated decision and vote seprix
iguanaiguana- had iguana as scum d1, not as confident in that read. Lands him in the nullish category.
Jimmmmm- townie. his d1 leans strongly town in my opinion. Didn't do anything to change that d2
vote: e
If you don't get lynched today, I hope you choose to duel me
This is what you call an OMGUS read. Notice the general lack of content along with a strong-seeming read. Classic OMGUS.
Reading end of the duel. Egork comes across scummy and Joseph very townie
Gkrieg also comes across slightly scummy for his progression from ash to faust.
Wouldn't be surprised by gkrieg/seprix remaining scum
How does that come off as scummy at all?
Coming out gung-ho against ashersky without explaining, adding explanation later. Then ash posts some stuff defending him. I come out strong for ash. People start shifting over. Scum needed a short duel with a quick death to win there, and you realized (along with your scum buddy seprix) that faust was going to lose. So you shift over to the winning duel
Please, a case.
Seprix is voting me because ashersky grew suspicious of me and scum!seprix wants an easy way to justify his mislynching me.
Gkrieg is voting me because OMGUS
Not sure why jimmmmm is voting me other than wagons are cool.
Why on earth would I assume Ash was going to win? Why not just sit tight where I was? Nobody would 'suspect' me as scum if I stayed put. My switch was way too open and flashy. I mean, I'm getting shit for lynching scum. Ludicrous.
No, lynching scum is good. Being open and flashy is what I think is scummy.
The thing is, I know scum bussed.Final Vote Count Day 2
ashersky (3): faust, J Reggie, Egorkfaust (6): Jimmmmm, gkrieg13, iguanaiguana, Haddock, Seprix, ashersky
Not Voting (2): e, Joseph2302
With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.
I know I am town. I have very strong feelings Joseph is town. So unless j Reggie and egork are both scum (I dont think they both are, maybe one) then scum bussed. I think it was a relatively early bus, and I think that scum is you, seprix
This is my first time as town in an open setup, so I'm really enjoying all this setup-solvy stuff. I'm glad town didn't do that in Fruit Ninja.
PPE: I lost count
I will follow the Ghoul plan tonight, target the person on the list after me.
I love your plan. I bow before its simple genius and vow to follow it unless I forget to submit a night action on time.
Only it's chairs plan. Though it is good and I'll follow on it
In other news I finally read all you posted while I was sleeping. Jimmm's answers seems off, but he confronting ash do not make much sense otherwise. Joseph repeating his behavior from earlier town game seems much more interesting and I do not see why he had not been given much scrutiny for doing this (there were votes, but I think their motivation had much more to do with behavior itself, not associated meta)
I'd Vote: Joseph for now
I voted Joseph for the reason you said, but then Jimmmmm voted me for doing that. Maybe Jimmmmm and Joseph are partners ;)
I'll do the ghoul thing. Unless I die IRL or something.
Also, I've done a bit of thinking about who scum might want to choose for duels. I suggest other people do that but DON'T POST YOUR THOUGHTS UNTIL TOMORROW. We win this game by giving scum as little information as possible.
Seprix does have a point that we may want to delay the usage of our nightkill (which it is, effectively). The main reason against it is that scum have more power to drive discussion in a direction of their choosing the longer all of them remain alive.
No, we should go ahead and kill mafia as soon as possible. I want to get that D2 win!
Maybe you and Seprix are partners :P
I think this is actually a case where a shorter day benefits town more. More interactions between players (which is usually why town wants long days) means more of a chance for scum to pick a duel that they can win. The nights are short, so hopefully we can get mafia to make a rash decision on the duel if someone hammers soon.
The whole argument of ash being town because he would have died in the night as scum if the plan had gone correctly seems like exactly the type of thing ash would plan as scum. Also, I really don't understand the unvoting thing. If ash is town, then Faust would be conf!scum to him, and the best thing you can do is vote for conf!scum. So I think I'll vote: ashersky.
The whole argument of ash being town because he would have died in the night as scum if the plan had gone correctly seems like exactly the type of thing ash would plan as scum. Also, I really don't understand the unvoting thing. If ash is town, then Faust would be conf!scum to him, and the best thing you can do is vote for conf!scum. So I think I'll vote: ashersky.
Who argued that I would have died at night? What kind of argument is that, even? I literally don't understand it.If the players which mafia chooses die before the start of the next day, then another player from the required alignment is randomized. However, mafia is allowed (and encouraged) to choose a backup player for each side, who will then be chosen if the first choice dies.Scum could have chosen a backup, therefore faust could have been the sacrifice target.
But why choose a backup? The absolute most sensible thing to do as scum is to assume town plays well enough to follow the simplest plan on the planet and just work around it.
There are no absolute guarantees here, but I'm basing my analysis on known information and most likely decisions. Scum plans for the plan and does what they need to to get what they think is most beneficial to them.
This is what made me think that. Maybe I'm understanding it wrong.
My argument is:
1) Scum knew the town plan.
2) Scum assumed it would be followed successfully.
3) Scum chose their duel targets with that in mind and chose duel targets that would absolutely NOT die.
4) Scum chose their NK target to ensure that the ghoul plan would result in scum other than Faust dying.
If you think I'm the scum, just switch the names. Faust points out that if I'm scum and wanted to ensure an ashersky v. Faust duel -- Jimmmm has to be scum, otherwise I'd have died if both chairs and Jimmmm used ghoul correctly.
I'd say that makes me more likely to be town, unless you think Jimmmm is in fact scum. Because with Faust as scum, the actually scum who would die could be anyone from chairs all the way around the list until you get back to Faust.
Ok, I guess you didn't understand what I was saying. Since there is a possibility of having a backup duel, it makes sense that scum would try this unlikely gamble because if it pays off, they have this argument that ash is making now. The fact that he was so quick to make that argument proves that point further.
This is really reminding me of fanfic mafia. Let's not fall for ash's tactics this time.
So I don't really know what to think here. My gut still tells me ash is scum, but I see him finding me scummy as more likely to come from town. But I honestly can't see Faust as scum here.
Ftfm
- Lucky is he who is not bothered by the stupid things other people say -We don't need to rush into anything right now tgwn- still 5 days.
Vote Count 3.3
Seprix (1): e
e (3): Seprix, gkrieg13, iguanaiguana
Not Voting (5): Joseph2302, J Reggie, Egork, Haddock, Jimmmmm
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends at Aug 5, 17:00 forum time. That is in 5 days and 0+ hours.
Yeah, tried to post yesterday but the forum was being weird.
Also, vote people for this game. Using meta is cool, but going outside the Mafia universe is not
- I thought this post was really scummy. Telling people to throw meta away is just not good.
After some rereading, e is probably Town. I like my original Vote: J Reggie
Guys. Enough of the knee jerk voting.
The wagon will be telling, but seriously. 0% chance ash is scum
- However, I do like this case (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15591.msg623794#msg623794) on Seprix. I think it is well thought out, and seems like it's genuine. It would've been better if he hadn't been tunneling Seprix the whole game. Like if he had ever voted for anyone other than Seprix, which goes way against his meta.
It's cool, we've got 4 days.- Lucky is he who is not bothered by the stupid things other people say -We don't need to rush into anything right now tgwn- still 5 days.
Vote Count 3.3
Seprix (1): e
e (3): Seprix, gkrieg13, iguanaiguana
Not Voting (5): Joseph2302, J Reggie, Egork, Haddock, Jimmmmm
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends at Aug 5, 17:00 forum time. That is in 5 days and 0+ hours.
Dude, if everyone just occasionally popped in occasionally to say "We have plenty of time, guys" like you do, then nothing would ever get anywhere and scum would win every game.
There are way too many people that need prods, or haven't done anything today. I mean I know I haven't done much either, but I am trying to at least comment on what is going onI'm super guilty of this. I've become so disconnected from this game. I promise I'll contribute tonight.
Guys. Enough of the knee jerk voting.
The wagon will be telling, but seriously. 0% chance ash is scum
It takes a ballsy scum to say this when the ash lynch looks probable but far from certain. Otherwise I find him generally Townie.
I'm looking at JR and Egor at the moment, will reread them properly and post more on them when I get the chance.
Vote Count 2.1
ashersky (5): gkrieg13, Seprix, faust, J Reggie, ashersky {L-1}
faust (1): Jimmmmm
Not Voting (5): Haddock, e, Joseph2302, iguanaiguana, Egork
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends at Aug 3, 23:00 forum time. That is in 8 days and 12+ hours.
Looks like I miscalculated when I tried to count 9 days forward. Subsequent game days are one real life day shorter than the first, down to seven. Real ending is August 3, not 4.
Vote Count 2.1
ashersky (5): gkrieg13, Seprix, faust, J Reggie, ashersky {L-1}
faust (1): Jimmmmm
Not Voting (5): Haddock, e, Joseph2302, iguanaiguana, Egork
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends at Aug 3, 23:00 forum time. That is in 8 days and 12+ hours.
Looks like I miscalculated when I tried to count 9 days forward. Subsequent game days are one real life day shorter than the first, down to seven. Real ending is August 3, not 4.
When I am scum, I sit back and watch the mislynches happen whenever possible. That was not the case here. There is no motive whatsoever for me to defend ash strongly here if I were scum
Guys. Enough of the knee jerk voting.
The wagon will be telling, but seriously. 0% chance ash is scum
It takes a ballsy scum to say this when the ash lynch looks probable but far from certain. Otherwise I find him generally Townie.
I'm looking at JR and Egor at the moment, will reread them properly and post more on them when I get the chance.
Everyone can make that one sentence where they really look like town. I agree the one post looks towny, but the rest of his posts read scum to me.
And I mean to be completely honest, the only people who knew 0% chance that Ash was scum were scum. AND they know that soon everyone else would know one way or the other. Scum had a strong motivation to distance themselves from Faust.
- Dum dadalum dididum darumlum tidarum -
Vote Count 2.3
ashersky (4): Seprix, faust, J Reggie, Egork
faust (4): Jimmmmm, gkrieg13, iguanaiguana, Haddock
Not Voting (3): e, Joseph2302, ashersky
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends at Aug 3, 23:00 forum time. That is in 6 days and 7+ hours.
There is that whole metagame where Faust is towny versus Ash can be seen as an easy scum matchup. Hmmm... I'm going to take a big risk here, and question my gut read.
vote: Faust
So I'm kind of at a loss for what to do here. After leading the wagons on two town players, I don't blame people for seeing me as scum. Now I legitimately don't have any good reads. The two wagons seem to be e and me. I mean, e has a higher chance of being scum than I do, but I'm not really seeing it. I just want to say that it's a good idea for town to keep me alive for now.Really?
I'll reread J Reggie shortly.
I can't read Reggie. There's no tells, no traits, nothing. How on earth am I supposed to figure out if he's scum or not from what he says?
The perfect scum thing to do right now is sit back and lurk into my lynch. Which is exactly what is happening with, uh, I don't know. Everyone except iguana (ok, and a couple others)
If you guys do lynch me, I will fliip town, and iguana will look bad and bashfully apologize for having a wrong read, along with some sort of "well, he posted scummy stuff anyway."
I do feel bad that my read on Seprix is tainted due to the fact that I always find Seprix scummy. I need to work on that. But really. His hedgemaster switch to Ashersky was so scummy.
So I'm kind of at a loss for what to do here. After leading the wagons on two town players, I don't blame people for seeing me as scum. Now I legitimately don't have any good reads. The two wagons seem to be e and me. I mean, e has a higher chance of being scum than I do, but I'm not really seeing it. I just want to say that it's a good idea for town to keep me alive for now.Really?
"It's a good idea to keep me alive" seems like a pretty bad argument to me.
Vote: JReggie
Being on 2 town wagons cannot be a coincidence.
So I'm kind of at a loss for what to do here. After leading the wagons on two town players, I don't blame people for seeing me as scum. Now I legitimately don't have any good reads. The two wagons seem to be e and me. I mean, e has a higher chance of being scum than I do, but I'm not really seeing it. I just want to say that it's a good idea for town to keep me alive for now.Really?
"It's a good idea to keep me alive" seems like a pretty bad argument to me.
Vote: JReggie
Being on 2 town wagons cannot be a coincidence.
You say this as if you've never been on two town wagons before when everyone has...
Seems like a scumtell to me. He talks about Seprix being scum while simultaneously acknowledging the existence of Seprix's gut read. I get what he means, but the wording is off. He wants "despite your claimed gut read". This is pretty weak.I do agree with e that Seprix looks pretty scummy from the whole thing as well. Especially because scum has daychat, and faust probably told him to just bus at that point.
Wrong. You're not thinking this through.
How so?
Think of it this way. Why conspicuously jump off and just magically change my mind through some gut read? Why not build some pseudo-case? There were plenty of those done. I'm not a lazy scum player. In addition, what did bussing Faust give me if I was scum? Nothing. It only gets people looking in my direction. If I stuck with my Ashersky read, nobody would have batted an eye.
Because you guys talked about it in your daychat and decided that ash was going to win the duel. So you loudly and hesitantly switch to ash despite your gut read against him
Overkill on the frustration. Townies are over that by now (at least I am), but scum might think that townies would still be annoyed by that.Final Vote Count Day 1
Seprix (2): e, teamlyle
J Reggie (1): Jimmmmm
gkrieg13 (1): Haddock
Joseph2302 (1): Egorkteamlyle (7): J Reggie, gkrieg13, iguanaiguana, Joseph2302, ashersky, faust, Seprix
iguanaiguana (1): chairs
With 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch.
Seprix and gkrieg also on the teamlyle mislynch. Still frustrated that teamlyle threw in the towel. Oh well.
Off the top of my head:This is towny - lots of scumreads, few townreads. Was gonna call him out for hedging on me but I think that's actually towny.
gkrieg13-scummier. On the teamlyle mislynch and scummy movement off Faust and onto ashersky in the duel
Joseph2302-town. 98% certainty
Haddock- townie (ish). Doesn't seem to have a huge footprint in the game, but maybe because others are stealing the spotlight. He plays a good scum game, but leaning town for now
e-IC
Egork- always a bit difficult to tell. Votes ashersky fairly late in the day, had he done it earlier could very well have lynched ash. Off wagon D1, slight scum lean.
J Reggie - scummy. Self aware scummy type. Plus posts from d1 and such.
Seprix- scummy. I can compile a case in one post later, by for now you can read the d3 dialogue and make the educated decision and vote seprix
iguanaiguana- had iguana as scum d1, not as confident in that read. Lands him in the nullish category.
Jimmmmm- townie. his d1 leans strongly town in my opinion. Didn't do anything to change that d2
Ok, good thing we won, bad thing my read was offBleh. Egor is ridiculous. He does stuff like this as every alignment. Sure he could be scum here. Who the hell knows?
I'll be V/LA until Saturday afternoon, sorry
Well done Town, I was in the ash Town camp so sorry I didn't help that happen more.Meh. I mean, sure. I can't read Jimm. Probably this is towny.
I'll jump on Vote: e, but I'm also looking at Egor and also still J Reggie.
I don't trust Jim. Let's not trust Jim.TOOOOOWWWWWWNNNNNN.
I'm leanier townier on gkrieg for this among other posts.Please, a case.
Seprix is voting me because ashersky grew suspicious of me and scum!seprix wants an easy way to justify his mislynching me.
Gkrieg is voting me because OMGUS
Not sure why jimmmmm is voting me other than wagons are cool.
Partially I'm voting for you because of the way you came out against me today. You also haven't been as present as you normally are, you spend a lot of time saying that we shouldn't do reads lists, and you claim multiple times that ash is town, but don't vote for faust. That looks like you pushing for ash to win the duel without actually voting to help him win the duel.
- Hen syndrorro, oños. Hen ñuqir, perzys. Hen morghot, glaeson. -Apparently my vote was L-1, my bad for not noticing.
Vote Count 3.4
e (2): Seprix, iguanaiguana
J Reggie (4): gkrieg13, Jimmmmm, e, Joseph2302
Not Voting (3): J Reggie, Egork, Haddock
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends at Aug 5, 17:00 forum time. That is in 3 days and 1+ hours.
I guess I'll vote: e because it's our best chance at lynching scum. Although I'm not the worst mislynch I guess. I'll try to get some kind of reads list together before the end of the day.I disagree.
Ok, good thing we won, bad thing my read was off
I'll be V/LA until Saturday afternoon, sorry
The lack of questioning and scrambling makes me weary of both wagons
The lack of questioning and scrambling makes me weary of both wagonsThis worries me too.
Please don't hammer me. I realized I'm probably one of the worst mislynches.
Please don't hammer me. I realized I'm probably one of the worst mislynches.
I'm really sorry guys. I've been reading over and there's nothing telling I can find in the way of scum reads. Scum has been playing this very well. I'll just say now that I totally missed the first night and didn't use my ghoul power. That won't really matter since I doubt scum would have NK'd me anyway. If you lynch me now, I think the numbers will work so that we can still win. And you guys can analyze my wagon and stuff.
It doesn't make sense to tell people if you used ghoul power or not.I'm really sorry guys. I've been reading over and there's nothing telling I can find in the way of scum reads. Scum has been playing this very well. I'll just say now that I totally missed the first night and didn't use my ghoul power. That won't really matter since I doubt scum would have NK'd me anyway. If you lynch me now, I think the numbers will work so that we can still win. And you guys can analyze my wagon and stuff.
Weren't we all not allowed to say if we didn't use the ghoul power?
Not to mention, there's plenty to look at! There's e, for example. You're just not trying. Man, I think I'd lynch you if you kept this up.
Ok, good thing we won, bad thing my read was off
I'll be V/LA until Saturday afternoon, sorry
Ok, good thing we won, bad thing my read was off
I'll be V/LA until Saturday afternoon, sorry
his last post.
request prod on EgorK
I should be around for deadline.
I currently strongly prefer JReggie to e, and can't see another good wagon at the moment.
Nobody is lynching him, so let's see if my gamble pays off.
Nobody is lynching him, so let's see if my gamble pays off.
Kind of like the faust gamble?
vote: J Reggie out of self-preservation.
I fully expect to be on the dueling list tomorrow.
I fully expect to be on the dueling list tomorrow.
You should duel me. That would be a fun duel
Excited for the haddock/egork duel that no one saw coming.
Excited for the haddock/egork duel that no one saw coming.
Excited for the haddock/egork duel that no one saw coming.
Now that would be a difficult duel.
Excited for the haddock/egork duel that no one saw coming.
Now that would be a difficult duel.
Come on, don't give scum ideas!
It would be funny if e and J Reggie were both the last two scum.
It would be funny if e and J Reggie were both the last two scum.
You're killing me right now. Like I feel like it is just so obvious that you are the last scum. It hurts.
Although e wouldn't surprise me if he were scum.
Also, mess this up and we are back to D1 with 5 alive. One scum. Basically throw everything we have had out the window. So let's lynch correctlyAgreed.
Iguana was such an interesting kill.Remind me why? Were we scumreading him? I've totally lost track. If iguana was a contentious character, killing him for WIFOM confusion seems like ideal scum play when setting up for what could be the game-deciding duel.
Huh.
That is an interesting duel. I lean towards voting Joseph on instinct because he hasn't contributed much, whereas I feel Seprix has contributed a lot and never done anything more scummy than his usual.
Then again I've never seen scum!Seprix. Joseph, Seprix, can both of you link a scum game or two of yours for us to read?
Loving being temporarily ICd. Weird situation.
I will do that when I get a chance.Huh.
That is an interesting duel. I lean towards voting Joseph on instinct because he hasn't contributed much, whereas I feel Seprix has contributed a lot and never done anything more scummy than his usual.
Then again I've never seen scum!Seprix. Joseph, Seprix, can both of you link a scum game or two of yours for us to read?
Loving being temporarily ICd. Weird situation.
Look at how he interacted with Faust and J Reggie. He is clearly scum here.
Iguana was someone who wasn't doing that much analysis. So you want the people that aren't doing too much still alive for this day.
vote: Seprix
For me to be scum after the stunts I pulled would be Ashersky levels of balls.
Looking for most recent ones (I've been scum 3 times ever, and town like 12). 2 of them were ages ago.
Then again I've never seen scum!Seprix. Joseph, Seprix, can both of you link a scum game or two of yours for us to read?
Why would scum!Seprix want to kill e?For me to be scum after the stunts I pulled would be Ashersky levels of balls.
I think seprix is playing this up with the iguana kill and everything. "If I were scum wouldn't I have killed e"
That type of thing
M56 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12327.0)According to this (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14311.0), I've been scum 3 times ever.
M55 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12157.0)
Still looking for 1 more.
None of them are recent by the way.
M56 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12327.0)According to this (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14311.0), I've been scum 3 times ever.
M55 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12157.0)
Still looking for 1 more.
None of them are recent by the way.
Can't find the third scum game on there though.
Seprix does have a point that we may want to delay the usage of our nightkill (which it is, effectively). The main reason against it is that scum have more power to drive discussion in a direction of their choosing the longer all of them remain alive.
No, we should go ahead and kill mafia as soon as possible. I want to get that D2 win!
Maybe you and Seprix are partners :P
I think it will be pretty easy for scum to know who to challenge anyway
thats not an ambiguously confident statement at all
I don't think we should be talking about this at all. I already have a game plan that will be unveiled after tonight. No more talking about this, please. The less information, the better.
I say lynch someone and move on. Anyone, really. It doesn't matter too much, since there are no reads. Those will be formed after tonight.
Point. Last time someone refused to answer a question I asked them repeatedly during a game, that person turned out to be scum. (Now who was that? :P)I think it will be pretty easy for scum to know who to challenge anyway
thats not an ambiguously confident statement at all
I don't think we should be talking about this at all. I already have a game plan that will be unveiled after tonight. No more talking about this, please. The less information, the better.
I say lynch someone and move on. Anyone, really. It doesn't matter too much, since there are no reads. Those will be formed after tonight.
Still haven't answered this.
and giving you a free correct lynch
Correct lynch?
vote: Teamyle
Let's see. I mean, he did just confess to be scum.
Point. Last time someone refused to answer a question I asked them repeatedly during a game, that person turned out to be scum. (Now who was that? :P)I think it will be pretty easy for scum to know who to challenge anyway
thats not an ambiguously confident statement at all
I don't think we should be talking about this at all. I already have a game plan that will be unveiled after tonight. No more talking about this, please. The less information, the better.
I say lynch someone and move on. Anyone, really. It doesn't matter too much, since there are no reads. Those will be formed after tonight.
Still haven't answered this.
and giving you a free correct lynch
Correct lynch?
vote: Teamyle
Let's see. I mean, he did just confess to be scum.
I mean you have this too. Plus this vote caused the day to end on a weekend, which was the most antitown thing someone could do D1
If someone forgets to submit, I am going to be one very sad Overlord.
It was. Doesn't matter. :PPoint. Last time someone refused to answer a question I asked them repeatedly during a game, that person turned out to be scum. (Now who was that? :P)I think it will be pretty easy for scum to know who to challenge anyway
thats not an ambiguously confident statement at all
I don't think we should be talking about this at all. I already have a game plan that will be unveiled after tonight. No more talking about this, please. The less information, the better.
I say lynch someone and move on. Anyone, really. It doesn't matter too much, since there are no reads. Those will be formed after tonight.
Still haven't answered this.
The face makes me think it was me, but I do t remember what you are r getting to
They had to have planned for one of them (not Faust) to be dead.
...How do you know this?
With Ashersky's logic, he could have easily have been the one who wanted to die if it didn't work out, for Faust's reason: The set-up too heavily favored town and was swingy.
Another thing to consider: Scum could have picked someone who was as far away from scum as possible, in the hopes that it would hit a town player who supposedly missed. Chairs missed. So there's that.
Submitted my Ghoul on ash. Everyone else should do likewise (not on ash though).Submitted on josephSubmitted on IGG Rush.
The people who talked about Ghouling. I submitted my action, and IG didn't die, so it's very likely both of us are town. Jimmmmm and gkreig could both be bluffing and just saying it (as could I honestly).
Also, I'm scum again.
I do agree with e that Seprix looks pretty scummy from the whole thing as well. Especially because scum has daychat, and faust probably told him to just bus at that point.
Wrong. You're not thinking this through.
e did not even vote. Come on, that's incredibly scummy! He doesn't want to stand out, and he didn't want to bus his partner.
Not to mention, there's plenty to look at! There's e, for example. You're just not trying. Man, I think I'd lynch you if you kept this up.
For me to be scum after the stunts I pulled would be Ashersky levels of balls.
but guys:Also, I'm scum again.
But yes, interesting Joseph is the last scum. Very interesting. I think I will do a reread after all, but obviously take everything I say with a grain of salt.
But yeah, gkrieg pulled some of the very convicting quotes from seprix, I could probably pull some more, but there is a convincing enough sample with what gkrieg quoted
But really. Do a reread of Joseph and tell me he is scum. Please. Just try.
This argument doesn't actually work. Whether Joseph or Seprix is the scum, killing the person furthest from the next scum on the list would have resulted in the same kill (ie. chairs).With Ashersky's logic, he could have easily have been the one who wanted to die if it didn't work out, for Faust's reason: The set-up too heavily favored town and was swingy.
Another thing to consider: Scum could have picked someone who was as far away from scum as possible, in the hopes that it would hit a town player who supposedly missed. Chairs missed. So there's that.
This too. Just look at the list. They did pick someone as far away as possible
I think it will be pretty easy for scum to know who to challenge anyway
thats not an ambiguously confident statement at all
I don't think we should be talking about this at all. I already have a game plan that will be unveiled after tonight. No more talking about this, please. The less information, the better.
I say lynch someone and move on. Anyone, really. It doesn't matter too much, since there are no reads. Those will be formed after tonight.
Also, I'm scum again.
It makes me sad that I am still not scum with ash, now that I finally have the chance again.Except that isn't true, because you and ash are my scum buddies.
Vote: faust
And just to clarify, this plan definitely 100% works, right?
So we'll definitely kill scum N1.
That seems really good for us.
PPE: 1
What if scum decides not to kill anybody? What if there are two scum in a row on the list, conveniently or by accident? I don't like this plan, it feels like a trap. I think we should wait to do this until we're certain we are in a losing position and want a free kill.Scum is obliged to kill (see the setup)- if they don't nominate someone, then a random town player gets chosen.
If 2 or more scum are consecutive numbers then it doesn't matter, as one scum will definitely die.
This is 100% guaranteed.
PPE: 2
Ya I don't like that plan at all.Seems good to me.
Definitely think we should lynch teamlyle and then all use our ghoul on the next person in the player order.
Guarantees a scum lynch after all.
Vote: teamlyle
vote: teamlyleEarly L-1.
L-1
Although he's clearly been the most anti-town player, by not wanting to do our cool, scum-killing plan.
So on a quick reread I've noticed this:
ash seems to be calm & collecting in his posting
faust seems to be very defensive & self-conscious
That's leaning me towards faust being scum.
Will reread properly this evening.
The D2 content hasn't given me much- a serious of long arguments.
Nothing much here says faust is towny.
And not a lot says ash is scummy.
Therefore, Intent to effectively hammer (if I vote, it's L-1 on faust, and ash could then just hammer).
So I'm kind of at a loss for what to do here. After leading the wagons on two town players, I don't blame people for seeing me as scum. Now I legitimately don't have any good reads. The two wagons seem to be e and me. I mean, e has a higher chance of being scum than I do, but I'm not really seeing it. I just want to say that it's a good idea for town to keep me alive for now.Really?
"It's a good idea to keep me alive" seems like a pretty bad argument to me.
Vote: JReggie
Being on 2 town wagons cannot be a coincidence.
Also, I'm scum again.
Nothing but null. Anybody who claims otherwise is biased. This is Joseph's niche thing now, and while I could see going hard for it now, it's not worth going for it now. Bunch of WIFOM to even look at this as a convincing case.It makes me sad that I am still not scum with ash, now that I finally have the chance again.Except that isn't true, because you and ash are my scum buddies.
Vote: faust
This is a bit more alarming, though hilariously enough, this ended up being the first duel. Again, bunch of WIFOM, but if Joseph is scum, then naturally this is an interesting 'gambit' for Joseph to take.And just to clarify, this plan definitely 100% works, right?
So we'll definitely kill scum N1.
That seems really good for us.
PPE: 1
Referring to the Ghoul plan. Anyways, this seems really really forced, almost excessively so. However, we are talking about Joseph here, so it's all WIFOM.What if scum decides not to kill anybody? What if there are two scum in a row on the list, conveniently or by accident? I don't like this plan, it feels like a trap. I think we should wait to do this until we're certain we are in a losing position and want a free kill.Scum is obliged to kill (see the setup)- if they don't nominate someone, then a random town player gets chosen.
If 2 or more scum are consecutive numbers then it doesn't matter, as one scum will definitely die.
This is 100% guaranteed.
PPE: 2
Joseph replies to my initial concerns with the Ghoul plan. Reasonable enough in hindsight.Ya I don't like that plan at all.Seems good to me.
Definitely think we should lynch teamlyle and then all use our ghoul on the next person in the player order.
Guarantees a scum lynch after all.
Vote: teamlyle
Joseph as scum would have known this is a mislynch.vote: teamlyleEarly L-1.
L-1
Although he's clearly been the most anti-town player, by not wanting to do our cool, scum-killing plan.
Okay, this is really really cringy. No town player would ever say this, ever. Not even Joseph. "Look at me, I am a walking talking conspicuous Town player!" I don't care if it's Joseph, this is immensely scummy to say.So on a quick reread I've noticed this:
ash seems to be calm & collecting in his posting
faust seems to be very defensive & self-conscious
That's leaning me towards faust being scum.
Will reread properly this evening.
...and then he says this. Dammit, I'm going to be the one to die today, aren't I?The D2 content hasn't given me much- a serious of long arguments.
Nothing much here says faust is towny.
And not a lot says ash is scummy.
Therefore, Intent to effectively hammer (if I vote, it's L-1 on faust, and ash could then just hammer).
More of this. I have no idea how consistent Joseph is with reads, but he's been pretty spot on with this read.So I'm kind of at a loss for what to do here. After leading the wagons on two town players, I don't blame people for seeing me as scum. Now I legitimately don't have any good reads. The two wagons seem to be e and me. I mean, e has a higher chance of being scum than I do, but I'm not really seeing it. I just want to say that it's a good idea for town to keep me alive for now.Really?
"It's a good idea to keep me alive" seems like a pretty bad argument to me.
Vote: JReggie
Being on 2 town wagons cannot be a coincidence.
This is the perfect Joseph!scum game. He isn't making any mistakes besides that one robotic statement about town.
Well, almost perfect. I know something that I should have noticed before with Joseph, but that I didn't realize until now.
Joseph is playing WELL.
He is analytical, never making any jokes besides the 'I'm scum' bit he always does. He's always been right on the money and very very consistent. I propose that Joseph has played way too perfectly and that is why he must die today.
*seprix's case*
So your case on him is too townie to be town?
*seprix's case*
So your case on him is too townie to be town?
Sounds about right. Can we lynch seprix now?
So Haddock, what do you make of seprix's case?It's weaker than the one I was putting together in my head. At least I think it is.
Also jimmmmmm? Egork? Hello?
Interesting thought I just had.This will be a tomorrow job for me.
Let's give Seprix and Joseph 2 days to put together cases on each other. Like their best cases and then we discuss them.
Okay, so I've said I'm going to write the case on Joseph, but I'm scum, so it'll all be nonsense.FTFY
So Haddock, what do you make of seprix's case?It's weaker than the one I was putting together in my head. At least I think it is.
I was hoping Seprix would make the same points that I was considering as I reread everything.
Can everyone else have a read through Joseph keeping in mind the daychat and see if you get the same sense I did that the things Joseph was doing/saying made a lot of sense as a player coached by some strong scumbuddies (not that Joseph wouldn't be fine on his own, but faust is faust), via the daychat?
That's exactly the sense I got.
Hello. I'll have some re-reads and a vote before deadline.which is when, btw?
Vote Count 4.0
Joseph2302 (0):
Seprix (0):
Not Voting (7): e, Jimmmmm, Haddock, Egork, gkrieg13, iguanaiguana, Seprix, Joseph2302
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 4 ends at see next Vote Count.
Well if we're voting already I'm gonnaI'm happy to Unvote for now, to allow for more discussion.
vote: Joseph.
This is by no means a final decision.
Nyeh. Obviously you and Seprix are gonna vote for each other. I was just a bit surprised to see Seprix at L-1, is all. Someone probably announced it, but still.Well if we're voting already I'm gonnaI'm happy to Unvote for now, to allow for more discussion.
vote: Joseph.
This is by no means a final decision.
Well if we're voting already I'm gonna
vote: Joseph.
This is by no means a final decision.
And thus I prove once and for all that town!me hedges like a .... thing... that hedges a lot.Well if we're voting already I'm gonna
vote: Joseph.
This is by no means a final decision.
Typical scum hedging 8)
And thus I prove once and for all that town!me hedges like a .... thing... that hedges a lot.Well if we're voting already I'm gonna
vote: Joseph.
This is by no means a final decision.
Typical scum hedging 8)
Seprix wanting to give scum information, by getting reads lists off people.Let me lay out out for you, though.
NO ONE GIVE READS LISTS.
Ghoul is our strongest tool, guys. Like, scum should be super scared to kill anyone due to the redirection of the kill thing. We need to lynch three scum or Ghoul three scum or some mix of those two. NKs are our friends if the towniest players do a good jobo f redirectioning hte kills.
If schum knows who we think ar scum, that's a bad thing. So no reads lists in day 1. Capisce?
This makes no sense. It's not read lists that indicate who we'll likely Ghoul, it's our top 1-2 scum reads. So to follow your plan of not letting scum know who we're likely to Ghoul, we need to not give our top scum reads. Which means no reads, no cases, no votes for anyone apart from whoever ends up being lynched. So you're basically suggesting the Town give up our strongest weapons against scum for what is pretty much a crapshoot.
Yes.
That's idiotic. Good luck playing Russian roulette.
What if scum decides not to kill anybody? What if there are two scum in a row on the list, conveniently or by accident? I don't like this plan, it feels like a trap. I think we should wait to do this until we're certain we are in a losing position and want a free kill.Not read the setup properly, but that's not a scum or town tell.
Keen for the mislynch.I think it will be pretty easy for scum to know who to challenge anyway
thats not an ambiguously confident statement at all
I don't think we should be talking about this at all. I already have a game plan that will be unveiled after tonight. No more talking about this, please. The less information, the better.
I say lynch someone and move on. Anyone, really. It doesn't matter too much, since there are no reads. Those will be formed after tonight.
Okay, who screwed up!?Obvious who screwed up, as they were dead.
vote: AsherskyGetting straight on the town player
Reaffirming the vote on the town playerIf ash is town, then Faust would be conf!scum to him, and the best thing you can do is vote for conf!scum.
When he said that, that basically sealed my vote. It's pretty obvious Ashersky blew it at this point.
Have you such a low opinion of me as a player? I have the equivalent of decades of experience on you as a Mafia player.
I don't care. All that matters is here and now.
We get it. You want to kill the town playerVote: Faust
Time to make the hard choice
I'm still inclined to vote Ash.
There is that whole metagame where Faust is towny versus Ash can be seen as an easy scum matchup. Hmmm... I'm going to take a big risk here, and question my gut read.Wow, nice switch in an attempt to look towny.
vote: Faust
So, Seprix spent the whole of D2 asserting that ash is scum, and then mysteriously out of nowhere hammers faust? Seems like someone was encouraged to do that in their daychat.
Yeah, Ashersky was just such an easy target, and there was nothing inherently wrong with Faust that I could see. I got over my initial revulsion and gave it a second look. It made total sense to pit town!Ash against towny Faust.Really? Or maybe you scum bussed?
e did not even vote. Come on, that's incredibly scummy! He doesn't want to stand out, and he didn't want to bus his partner.Maybe he's have had a chance if you hadn't bussed so quickly?
vote: J Reggie out of self-preservation.Or bussing again?
Vote Count 3.7Another hammer?
e (2): iguanaiguana, J ReggieJ Reggie (5): gkrieg13, Jimmmmm, e, Joseph2302, Seprix
Not Voting (2): Egork, Haddock
With 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch.
BumpProbably Egor isn't coming back- how long has it been since he last posted?
We can probably assume egork has disappeared. The case on Joseph is that he played too well. Which is no case at all.
Also, I'm scum again.
This could come straight from daychat. "You've done this a bunch lately Joseph, do it again and people will think you're towny for it. Oh and in one of the times, tie together a scum and a towny."It makes me sad that I am still not scum with ash, now that I finally have the chance again.Except that isn't true, because you and ash are my scum buddies.
Vote: faust
Throwing shade for no reason. The word "seem" is totally unnecessary.Agree, a sensible enough post to seem towny.
I will follow the Ghoul plan tonight, target the person on the list after me.
I love your plan. I bow before its simple genius and vow to follow it unless I forget to submit a night action on time.
Only it's chairs plan. Though it is good and I'll follow on it
In other news I finally read all you posted while I was sleeping. Jimmm's answers seems off, but he confronting ash do not make much sense otherwise. Joseph repeating his behavior from earlier town game seems much more interesting and I do not see why he had not been given much scrutiny for doing this (there were votes, but I think their motivation had much more to do with behavior itself, not associated meta)
I'd Vote: Joseph for now
I like this post by EgorK. Seems very townie and genuine.
And just to clarify, this plan definitely 100% works, right?Look at me, liking a protown plan a bunch.
So we'll definitely kill scum N1.
That seems really good for us.
PPE: 1
WHAT A GREAT PLAN THIS IS AND I'M SUPPORTING IT, LOOK!What if scum decides not to kill anybody? What if there are two scum in a row on the list, conveniently or by accident? I don't like this plan, it feels like a trap. I think we should wait to do this until we're certain we are in a losing position and want a free kill.Scum is obliged to kill (see the setup)- if they don't nominate someone, then a random town player gets chosen.
If 2 or more scum are consecutive numbers then it doesn't matter, as one scum will definitely die.
This is 100% guaranteed.
PPE: 2
I LOVE THIS PLAN MORE THAN MY LIFE!To be clear, this plan does NOT tell us about anyone's alignment. It just guarantees one dead mafia.True, but it's 1 dead mafia.
That's pretty fricking good.
Also, annoying that the plan didn't work.
Unnecessarily defensive?That's like the good ole days. I'm almost double the nearest poster, who is surprisingly JIMMMMM.I'm always in the slightly lurky
Townpoints for Jimmmmmm for being so active.
Scumponts for Jimmmmmm for earning townpoints.
faust is strangely absent. He's usually the top in post numbers. Iguana/Haddock/Joseph are in the sweet acti-lurking scum slots.
vote: joseph
So on a quick reread I've noticed this:Daychat: "Joseph, bus me for these reasons."
ash seems to be calm & collecting in his posting
faust seems to be very defensive & self-conscious
That's leaning me towards faust being scum.
Will reread properly this evening.
I should be around for deadline.Nyeh. Maybe Joseph's reads are just suspiciously good.
I currently strongly prefer JReggie to e, and can't see another good wagon at the moment.
e, gkrieg, wanna respond to my "case" on Joseph at all?
The more I look at it the weaker it gets, so unless you guys see it and suddenly magically agree, I'll probably go ahead and finish Seprix off.
No need to apologise. I wasn't really nagging, just wanted to make sure I didn't forget about this game as much as anything else.e, gkrieg, wanna respond to my "case" on Joseph at all?
The more I look at it the weaker it gets, so unless you guys see it and suddenly magically agree, I'll probably go ahead and finish Seprix off.
Sorry, haven't had the chance between work and signing a rental agreement for a new house and stuff.
But yeah, I read it, not going to convince me.Fair. His bussing of faust and Reggie felt too perfect as well, but that does happen I guess.
The whole plan caught scum off guard. I think that scum would have more of a reaction like seprix- skeptical, then eventually gung-ho when they realized it was inevitable. Joseph just went for it.
Sorry I signed for a house yesterday and we get it today!
So I'm not gonna change my vote and hope this game is over! I think the case was well thought out, but unconvincing. If Joseph really was scum, MVP for sure
Sorry I signed for a house yesterday and we get it today!
So I'm not gonna change my vote and hope this game is over! I think the case was well thought out, but unconvincing. If Joseph really was scum, MVP for sure
No, Joseph was obviously coached by Faust, who should really get the MVP if scum wins somehow. It's the only explanation, really. Joseph just doesn't make reads like that!
Sorry I signed for a house yesterday and we get it today!
So I'm not gonna change my vote and hope this game is over! I think the case was well thought out, but unconvincing. If Joseph really was scum, MVP for sure
No, Joseph was obviously coached by Faust, who should really get the MVP if scum wins somehow. It's the only explanation, really. Joseph just doesn't make reads like that!
Man, you must have pretty good knowledge of the scum qt to say that. Because in my opinion faust did nothing on D1 and then was the obvious lynch D2. Not MVP worthy. If Joseph is scum then he would be mvp I think. But....I don't think that is the case
I'm not sure what else I can really do at this point. You guys won't believe me.Nyeh. I think you're about 55/45 to be town. No way that's enough to convince the rest.
Why did you wait to make this point until I'd already made it?Sorry I signed for a house yesterday and we get it today!
So I'm not gonna change my vote and hope this game is over! I think the case was well thought out, but unconvincing. If Joseph really was scum, MVP for sure
No, Joseph was obviously coached by Faust, who should really get the MVP if scum wins somehow. It's the only explanation, really. Joseph just doesn't make reads like that!
Man, you must have pretty good knowledge of the scum qt to say that. Because in my opinion faust did nothing on D1 and then was the obvious lynch D2. Not MVP worthy. If Joseph is scum then he would be mvp I think. But....I don't think that is the case
There's daychat, and there's no way Joseph could make all of those brilliant cases. It's the only explanation...
Why did you wait to make this point until I'd already made it?
I'm glad town is so inactive that we can't even get a hammer when we have come to a consensus
I'm glad town is so inactive that we can't even get a hammer when we have come to a consensus
I know, right? But I love the cases. Too towny to be town vs too scummy to be scum
A town player can play badly, but do you ever see scum play badly? No.
A town player can play badly, but do you ever see scum play badly? No.
Gonna carry on playing devil's advocate here.A town player can play badly, but do you ever see scum play badly? No.
Usually Joseph is scummy because of his reactions to things, not because of his reads. Like I would think that he gets mislynched so often because he is a little bit weird of a player. Not because he has bad distancing when scum. So I don't think the argument that his reads are too good is a very good excuse. I'll go look at his stats
I don't know... Seprix's scrambling seems Towny but maybe that's just me getting sucked in.
Oh, but he is. Well, sorry town, I let you down..Wasn't online at that time.
But I do think scum!Joseph would be paying more attention and would have hammered by now.Did I miss a forced win? :(
You can still just hammer!But I do think scum!Joseph would be paying more attention and would have hammered by now.Did I miss a forced win? :(
Didn't Gkrieg unvote?You can still just hammer!But I do think scum!Joseph would be paying more attention and would have hammered by now.Did I miss a forced win? :(
unvoteYep, I can go L-1 but not hammer anymore :(
Why a vote for Joseph?
I see no unvote. That should be the hammer.There's an unvote quoted 2 posts above your last post.
Just tell us already!
Reply #938Huh. I'm blind.
vote: Seprix
Joseph, I have a question for you.No idea.
How did you play so well?
Joseph was already voting for me! That's not a lynch!
Wow, Joseph blew it. Just incredible... I cannot believe my luck.
This entire game was just a huge luck fest. But man, it was a fun luck fest.
This entire game was just a huge luck fest. But man, it was a fun luck fest.Game's not over.
In case it isn't obvious enough, I'm bad.
Gg
This. All of this.Wow, Joseph blew it. Just incredible... I cannot believe my luck.
Our luck. We are a team as town. Haha.
But really. I need to realize when you seem super scum, you are probably town.
vote: josephAlso, yeah, hammer stats.
I was right! Damn me and my lack of conviction.
I guess we will find out.
ashersky is MVP!Uhhhh silver? Hate to break it to you, but two of those links are the same.
Mod QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/SnZ8u4UADCjs
Mafia QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/ZacRMNx57SJuQ
Speccy QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/ZacRMNx57SJuQ
Uhhhh silver? Hate to break it to you, but two of those links are the same.
Well I screwed up big time.
Soz guys.
I remain unconvinced that alignment changes are a good idea.Well it's not like we had any real evidence either way...
That's not a fault of the setup though, just the consequence of everyone being inactive.I remain unconvinced that alignment changes are a good idea.Well it's not like we had any real evidence either way...
Huh?That's not a fault of the setup though, just the consequence of everyone being inactive.I remain unconvinced that alignment changes are a good idea.Well it's not like we had any real evidence either way...
Also that's not the point. How can you comment about whether alignment changes are good on not based on this game?Well, the way for scum to win was to force a situation that is basically a new vanilla game with 5 players and 1 scum. That didn't seem fun.
Also that's not the point. How can you comment about whether alignment changes are good on not based on this game?Well, the way for scum to win was to force a situation that is basically a new vanilla game with 5 players and 1 scum. That didn't seem fun.
Also that's not the point. How can you comment about whether alignment changes are good on not based on this game?Well, the way for scum to win was to force a situation that is basically a new vanilla game with 5 players and 1 scum. That didn't seem fun.
I agree. Especially because the last scum to flip wouldn't win. If I had changed alignment I would've just outed myself because there was no possible way of winning at that point.
Thanks for the game silver. Really good.
I'm really happy with my reads this game. Maybe I should always pay that little attention.
Well, the way for scum to win was to force a situation that is basically a new vanilla game with 5 players and 1 scum.
I remain unconvinced that alignment changes are a good idea.
The last is the most likely.Thanks for the game silver. Really good.
I'm really happy with my reads this game. Maybe I should always pay that little attention.
there might actually be truth to that. It's possible that in paying more attention you lose yourself in details, and that getting broad-stroke impressions of style yields better results.
Of course, it's also possible that it was variance.
Well, the way for scum to win was to force a situation that is basically a new vanilla game with 5 players and 1 scum.
Players kept saying that, but it's actually not true. It would have been a 3-1, not a 4-1, because one town player dies (duellist), one gets converted, and one is NK'd, so it takes 3 away. That means it'd have been a no-lynch followed by a final duel. Basically the game resets to a situation where you have one day time to chat, and then a duel, and whichever side wins that also wins the game.
The last is the most likely.Thanks for the game silver. Really good.
I'm really happy with my reads this game. Maybe I should always pay that little attention.
there might actually be truth to that. It's possible that in paying more attention you lose yourself in details, and that getting broad-stroke impressions of style yields better results.
Of course, it's also possible that it was variance.
You do succeed in nailing down my biggest problem with my town play; I often find (possible confirmation bias alert) that my gut reads are not so very terrible but I don't want to articulate my gut reads too often. Why? Hard to say. Fear of being wrong? Knowing I won't be able to support them? Most likely it's because I know the expectation is to give proper rereads and deeper analysis so I attempt that, with varying success.
you mean in his first post?Well, the way for scum to win was to force a situation that is basically a new vanilla game with 5 players and 1 scum.
Players kept saying that, but it's actually not true. It would have been a 3-1, not a 4-1, because one town player dies (duellist), one gets converted, and one is NK'd, so it takes 3 away. That means it'd have been a no-lynch followed by a final duel. Basically the game resets to a situation where you have one day time to chat, and then a duel, and whichever side wins that also wins the game.
I guess I misunderstood the wording in the setup, because I thought the conversion was instead of a NK. Reading it again, I can see it either way, but it's still confusing.
I feel like scum played pretty badly here, myself included. Joseph was doing OK until he claimed scum.
you mean in his first post?Well, the way for scum to win was to force a situation that is basically a new vanilla game with 5 players and 1 scum.
Players kept saying that, but it's actually not true. It would have been a 3-1, not a 4-1, because one town player dies (duellist), one gets converted, and one is NK'd, so it takes 3 away. That means it'd have been a no-lynch followed by a final duel. Basically the game resets to a situation where you have one day time to chat, and then a duel, and whichever side wins that also wins the game.
I guess I misunderstood the wording in the setup, because I thought the conversion was instead of a NK. Reading it again, I can see it either way, but it's still confusing.
I feel like scum played pretty badly here, myself included. Joseph was doing OK until he claimed scum.
Hey ss, would you be willing to look over an idea I had for a setup?