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Messages - Holunder9

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51
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« on: December 09, 2018, 05:26:24 am »
And I just wanted to show a tigers power off by starting off powerful. I might raise the cost or make it +2 Cards instead. I’ll just wait and see what other people think of tiger before I change it.
Just compare Tiger to Nobles, Destry, Josephine and Giant (there is a reason Giant only hits every other time) to realize how crazily overpowered it is.

52
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Holunder's cards
« on: December 08, 2018, 07:12:19 am »
Hovel and Overgrown Estate seem to have switched the arrangement of the colours between 1st and 2nd edition.

53
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion Wild Lands
« on: December 08, 2018, 04:40:32 am »
Jungle Village is pretty good; I'd rather do +1 Action per differently revealed Action card.

Tiger is too good, it is better than Dame Josephine and Sir Destry combined and gets the Giant-like cursing on top of it.

I'd be very careful with unlimited handsize attacks like that of Langurs. Even though it is hard to set up, a deck with 5 Langurs is no fun for the opponents. Note that the only other unlimited handsize discard Attack, Torturer, has a second option for the attacked player.

54
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Interview with Donald X.
« on: December 07, 2018, 05:06:03 pm »
Well, you can do all kinds of Smithies or Villages with a cherry on top but after some time most good ideas are used up and then you have to add an extra mechanism like e.g. Boons with Blessed Village. That is clearly more complex than Mining Village from the first expansion. Same like e.g. Nomad Camp and Woodcutter. Woodcutter is as simple as it gets so every Woodcutter variant is automatically more complex.

You can try to stick to simple stuff with new mechanisms and while Renaissance is arguably simpler than Adventures, Empires and Nocturne it doesn't do hypersimple, there are on-gain and on-trash triggers, there are States Artifacts and there are permanent Events Projects. This is arguably more complex than the early expansions.

So Donald is right. You can try to keep it as simple as possible but the general trend is naturally towards more complexity.

55
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: December 07, 2018, 04:36:11 pm »
This indirect usage of Villagers is a very cool idea that avoids outright brokenness via endless token accumulation.

Outskirts doesn't really support your terminal-heavy engine as it will most of the time be a Ruined Village.  Sure, sometimes you can save superfluous Actions but this very slight increase of engine consistency comes at the significant cost of having to play a card.
This is why I think that it has to provide 2 Villagers to become a proper village that you can actually use. The fact that it doesn't draw will still hurt and the VP this provides are fewer than those of Vineyard so it shouldn't become too crazy.

56
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Holunder's cards
« on: December 07, 2018, 03:57:41 pm »
In my opinion a Silver-gaining Shelter would be too similar to Lucky Coin and also arguably too good.

One idea to nerf Acolyte's Abode is topdecking instead of discarding it. If you are extremely lucky you could thus use it twice in a 3P game but it is more likely that you just topdecked a dead card.

Another idea is to use Buy tokens aka Marketeers which are worth far less in the opening than Coffers:



As there is only one copy of this card in your deck there is no accountability problems, except during Masquerade games.

57
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Holunder's cards
« on: December 07, 2018, 02:19:32 am »
I like the idea, but Lodge is the only of these that works well as a shelter IMO. You already said what's wrong with Acolyte's Abode, and Swamp Cabin seems pretty strong for a shelter. I guess it could be an interesting decision whether to keep it or not, but I think it potentially makes too much difference for a shelter.
Good point, somebody with 4/3 being able to leech off somebody elses's 5/2 isn't a good idea.
Here is an alternative for the Reaction-Shelter which is also more similar to Hovel's self-trashing:



I don't agree though that Swamp Cabin is problematic. Sure, it has nothing to do with the trash theme of Dark Ages but it is hard to come up with some novel on-trash bonus. Like Pasture, Swamp Cabin is something that would be dubious as Kingdom card so why not stick the idea on a starting card? I don't see its craziness given that Pasture is an automatic Duchy, often leads to 8VPs when you won the split (or even more in non-mirrors) and has a Kingdom card that supports the alt-VP strategy.
I also think that you will stick with Pasture more often than with Swamp Cabin.

On a sidenote, I think that in a world in which Pasture did not exist, a Shelter which would be worth 1VP per Estate you have would be good idea. Totally narrow but perhaps a thing in a Gardens or Silk Road Kingdom.

I don't like Heirlooms like Goat which speed up the game too much so I don't want to do anything crazy with Shelters but being an alt-VP enabler isn't something that messes with the opening. Here the seemingly innocent Lodge is the far worse offender as it makes terminal draw a pretty good opening buy due to zero chance of collision after the first shuffle (this is not the case with Necropolis).

58
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dreidel Card Idea
« on: December 07, 2018, 02:02:34 am »
Well, the gentiles among us would have to use a D4 anyway.
Not necessarily. In a “set” (probably a promo set) this would probably come with a Dreidel.
That's not realistic by a long shot. Some of us do print fan cards but I never go so far as to make extra tokens (gotta print them, mount them on cardboard, cut them well) or whatever extra material the cards need but rather use what is available anyway.

59
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Holunder's cards
« on: December 06, 2018, 06:03:10 pm »


Here are some quick ideas for an alternative set of Shelters. I guess you could also mix them with the original Shelters and randomly choose one from each of the three sub-categories.

Lodge is a small house so only one dude villager is living there! While the card is superficially similar to Necropolis it will play differently. For example in games without villages it degenerates into a Ruined Village whereas Necropolis can be used as non-drawing village (this being the only situation in which you want to keep Necro). So I guess you will only use Lodge 1-3 times and then try to get rid of it.
Not much to say about Acolyte's Abode, it is my least favourite of the 3. Like Lodge it is also not something you really want to keep around but it can change the opening if somebody opens with 2-5/5-2. This is why it is perhaps too luck-dependent.
Swamp Cabin is remotely inspired by Pasture (a singular non-Supply card changing the worth of basic green). First it had 3VPs per set but got buffed to 4VPs to make it a real alt-VP kick-off card more often.

60
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dreidel Card Idea
« on: December 06, 2018, 05:33:44 pm »
Well, the gentiles among us would have to use a D4 anyway.

A quick analysis with 2 Coin tokens on this as benchmark would imply an average yield of 0.5 Coffers (+2, +1, -1, 0) which seems roughly balanced at $2. Of course it is more complex and there is some interaction around Coffers with this so it is a cool idea.

61
The current wording is imprecise as it implies that you are forced to buy Kingswood if you have 5 or more Coffers.

While it is arguably slightly artifical, the most failsafe way to create "ungainability" that comes to mind is via making Kingswoods non-Supply cards and an Event:

Event
$0
You may spent 5 Coffers to gain a Kingswood from its pile.

62
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: December 06, 2018, 02:47:59 pm »
In my opinion a simple benchmark to understand the card is: use this to trash your 3 Estates, don't spend the Villagers, then these are Duchies.
You can gain Estates and later trash them to make this worth more, but you can also spend the Villagers to run your engine which makes this worth less.

I like it a lot and as you said, being strong with Recruiter doesn't break the card (as you have to gain cards to feed Recruiter there is also no loop potential unless Fortress is also in the Kingdom; and 3-card-loops isn't something one should lose any sleep over).  Otherwise you'd also have to argue that e.g. University breaks Vineyard.
Also, Recruiter is already pretty crazy in and of itself so Recruiter being crazier with another card has probably more to do with Recruiter than with Subversives which is a wild shot in Kingdoms with decent trashers.

63
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: December 05, 2018, 07:45:15 am »
I like this except for its lack of flexibility. In Kingdoms without a decent sources of virtual Coins you need Silver and Golds and this forces you to discard all of them. This is why I'd rather try: Discard any number of cards, revealed.

64
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: December 04, 2018, 04:23:26 pm »

Just a silly idea I've had kicking around for a while. Gamble on not all the Duchies getting bought, or some extra incentive to force a three-pile ending. (Or, even sillier, make last minute adjustments for Keep/Fairgrounds/etc.)
This is innovative, simple and plain brilliant.
There could be balance issues with the price (how often are Duchies really empty?) and, as faust has pointed out, gainers, but I'd nonetheless first try this at $4.

65
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: December 03, 2018, 07:45:33 pm »

Quote
Paper Mill
Types: Victory
Cost: $3
Worth 1VP for every 2 tokens on your Villager mat more than the player who has the fewest tokens on their Villager mat (rounded down), but at least 1VP.
Setup: Each player gets +5 Villagers.
Note that the first 3 Villagers are free, assuming you can't produce more.
This is extremly Kingdom-dependent: nice with Villager-yielding Renaissance cards, otherwise strictly worse than Tunnel.

66
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: December 03, 2018, 07:41:41 pm »

Bonkers with overdraw and the on-gain bonus is arguably too good relative to Acting Troupe.

67
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Asper's Cards
« on: December 03, 2018, 12:38:29 pm »
Well, I can say that not once in my life have I bought Copper to get out of a bad situation.
It is not something which occurs often in practice (Curser, Looter, no trasher is a situation which can become dire), but, well, there is a reason Coppers costs $0. As I said, it depends on whether you care about principles that only matter in very rare circumstances or not (I am nearly always leaning towards ignoring principles, rare edge cases and so on).

I did not think about all these funky interactions with $3 Coppers so I think that the card is definitely fun to try out.

68
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Asper's Cards
« on: December 03, 2018, 10:31:09 am »
I don't like the new Inflation. The old one was a nice global effect (that arguably shifts the Kingdom more towards engine play) whereas the new version makes all those $2 cantrips expensive and could run into issues in heavy slogs when you want to buy Copper. This occurs extremely rarely, so you could be pragmatic and simply ignore it. But if you care about principles then Copper always costing $0 as a way out of a bad situation is not something you want to mess with.

69
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: December 02, 2018, 05:23:38 pm »


Nothing from Renaissance, only stuff from Empires and Nocturne, but what can you do.
The purpose of the Debt cost is to make this ungainable except via buying it which is the only way to make the Buy restriction work. Gain restrictions would obviously run into issues.
An alternative wording, similar to Grand Market, would be: "You can’t buy this unless you spend an extra Buy."


70
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Card ideas from Jeebus
« on: December 01, 2018, 05:21:42 am »
Weaver is overpowered. The sifting for the opponents is nice but doesn't totally compensate as it decreases in value with several plays. I'd try it with 3 Cards and 2 Coins.
Midway could be phrased as "name a type.
Alderman is a giant Necropolis and far too weak.

71
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: November 30, 2018, 07:57:20 am »
I don't know, Timberland is as aweful for Copper trashing as Raze (yet Raze is cheaper and can trash other stuff) while the Stonemason tricks with Silver and Gold don't seem to make it shine that much.
So I fear that in any game with other trashers those Treants will never see the light of day. The interaction with Treant, i.e. conversion into Peddlers, is also not that huge.

Perhaps give Timberland 2VPs?

72
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: November 29, 2018, 04:17:05 pm »
Anyway, a lot of what I was trying to say is about having 5 of them potentially being broken in not-that-rare kingdoms. Broken when you have a solid engine = broken.
Yeah, I totally agree with that although I think that it has more to do with the pile control than the VPs.


Quote
The underdog player not having to lower piles was a thing I was meaning to talk about somewhere in there. And I do believe costing $1 is a form of synergy, as is being able to gain Lily by trashing Silver, as is being able to put Gilt back on top of the Lily remaining in the pile.
$4s are never hard to get. I agree though that blocking the Lilies via Gilts returning to the pile is a nice feature.
What you seem to underestimate though is that the very situation in which you wanna actually use Gilts as Lily fodder requires and engine with decent draw and lots of Buys and my naive question is: can such an engine not do much better?

So I fear that the Lilies will never see the sun in lots of games. If you ignore Lily, Gilt is just a Copper trasher so you want at most 1 or 2 of them. Perhaps 3 to pull of some Upgrade tricks but then Gilt returns to the pile and makes it less likely that Lilies will appear.

I hate to sound harsh but there are simply too many issues with this to work well. You need a stronger Treasure on top with either independent strength or far stronger synergies (I understand why you limited the amount of Lilies to 3 but this comes at the cost of looser ties between bottom and top card; why work card for Gilt as fodder if there are only 3 Lilies) to make this split pile thingy work.

73
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: November 29, 2018, 03:58:51 pm »
Fine but then there is nothing special about Gilt being fed to Lily except for being cheap which only matters if Buys are cheap to come by.
If there is a $2 Action in the kingdom and you spend $1 and 1 Buy getting a Gilt, you trash it twice before you have to buy another one, because you gain another card to trash. (And it used to be Estates, but I decided that was too nerfed with regard to the early game.)
I have no idea about what this is supposed to mean. Gilt trashes a card and (potentially) gains a card. It isn't, as you seem to imply, a net-gainer and thus doesn't contribute in this way as Lily fodder provider.
What I meant with cheap or spammable Buy is something like Market Square. Lots of Kingdoms have no extra Buys at all and lots of them have only terminal cards that provide the extra Buys. Terminal space is nearly always scarce so the Woddcutter variants compete with other engine components and it takes quite some effort to build your engine such that you always have several extra Buys per turn that allows you to regain Gilts.

So there isn't much interaction between the cards (as they are both slow trashers they are substitutes rather than, as it should be, complements). It seems far more likely that you will simply feed anything to Lily or use it to pile-drive Provinces.

74
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: November 29, 2018, 03:26:25 pm »
It's worded how I mean it to be worded
Fine but then there is nothing special about Gilt being fed to Lily except for being cheap which only matters if Buys are cheap to come by.

75
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: November 29, 2018, 02:50:23 pm »
Gilt feeds you other stuff when trashed,
If that is your intention, you have to word it differently. As it is currently worded it only trashes a Treasure at the end of the turn if it is in play, i.e. if you trash Gilt via another card like Lilies this Upgrade effect doesn't happen.


Note that there are only 3 Lillies, I think 5 is nuts. That's 5 VP a turn and, if you have an engine with some overdraw, milling 5 provinces off the supply if you've bought 1.
Sure, the Transmogrify / Salt of Earth like pile control is nice but in order to pull that off you'd need to draw 10 cards: 5 Lilies and 5 cards you don't want anymore. And this or next turn you'd have to regain 5 cards to feed Lilies.
I don't see any craziness.

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