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[ashersky]

Mom salon is town.  Robz's instant props for faust's scummy post is suspect.  Also don't like the VT claim.  There's a bunch of null going around.  I probably should read the full thread in earnest.

JosephJordanOxygenSquared is towny since I joined.

[Joseph2302]

Vote Count 1.6

JaketheBaseballGod22 (1): Joseph2302
Robz888 (2): gkrieg13, Awaclus
Awaclus (1): Robz888
EFHW (1): The_Wine_Merchant
gkrieg13 (3): EFHW, mcmcsalot, faust
mcmcsalot (1): JaketheBaseballGod22

Not Voting (3): Calamitas, ashersky, Roadrunner7671,

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

Oh yh, I meant to switch my vote.
Vote: Awaclus

PPE: 1

[gkrieg13]

Now let's take a look at gkrieg.

There is some fluff in the beginning. I forgot this:

While I agree with you, RVS isn't something super duper awful.  Like trying to get out of it too quickly can cause mislynches as well.

It's not alignment-indicative, but I really don't get it.

He townreads Joseph. Well someone (mcmc?) said defending Joseph there is kind of scummy and I agree.

I don't get why it is scummy that I townread and defended someone.  I had some pretty good evidence (meta) and I don't really whiteknight as scum.  I will point out that I was right in the end anyway, and my reads have been pretty good lately.

I would say RR voting for Jake is slightly scummy though.

Every game I've ever played with Jake, I think I've voted for him. And that must've been D1 or D2.

That's why it is scummy this game.

This is also a bit of a clichéd reasoning.

He's also interacting with Jake a fair bit, coaching and such, which is a cheap way of getting activity up.

I don't really believe that I lurk more as scum.  I feel like I have been as active in this game as I usually am anyway.  I feel like Jake could be a really good mafia player, but that he does need a little bit of coaching.  I think it would certainly boost his record if he took some of my advice.  I actually don't like this point at all.  The last time I was lynched D1 was when I was town, and it was for having too much fluff.  The posts that I have made haven't been acti-lurking posts, I have been making some good posts, expressing reads (strong reads, not ones that I can really back out of).  None of those things are really scummy.

vote: faust

Interesting. Don't remember if this was explained, but I guess I'll see.

Jumping on the Robz wagon is kind of scummy, but then I think scum!gkrieg might shy away from being like 4th or 5th on a wagon because that are dangerous places to be in. I don't recall how gkrieg plays scum right now, so I can't really tell.

Before people voted for Robz, I put a line in my QT saying that this confirms Robz to be scum.  I honestly think he is acting the same as he did when we lynched Jake as the vanilla cop.

This is so... I would be interested in why gkrieg felt the need to share that information. And thinking scum!Robz would repeat such an obvious pattern after only 2 or 3 games? I'm not sure I buy that gkrieg would think that. Plus it ignores the new information Robz shared. So all in all, pretty scummy post.

I stand by the fact that looking at the behavior Robz looked really scummy.  Why would town!Robz repeat a behavior that he did as scum anyway?  I get the new information that Robz shared, but I still think he is scummy for still wanting Joseph to be hammered.  I think everyone understood that a 1v1 D1 on the UB is definitely worth the counterclaim.  UB isn't super amazing awesome in this setup anyway, which is why in FanFiction mafia, we had the UB claim (I admit that this was scum driven, but enough people agreed on it that I think it is true).  Also I think when dealing with Robz, he is pretty good at explaining his way out of a scummy post.

Adding space -- vote: gkrieg.

Honestly I was just waiting for other games to go into night. Now I'll spend more time on this one.

I joked about this before, but I really think that the "honestly" can be a subconscious scumtell. Like scum!gkrieg thinking "now I can post something that is actually true!"

I post honestly as both alignments.  It's my speech pattern, and I use it IRL as well and it bugs my wife.

I think when I'm very involved in a game it is much easier to read me though.

I don't like this bit very much because it sounds like trying to get a D1 pass through the promise of more activity in the future.

I also don't agree with this point.  I stand by this, and lynching me D1 is a bad choice anyway.

Here is another post that I'd like to look at in more detail:

I rarely write in my personal QTs.  I was just making a note that Robz was acting the same way he did in M89 and that I thought he was scum.

Notably, gkrieg's language already softened down here; earlier he said this "confirmed" Robz as scum.

I don't think that Awaclus really looked like he was claiming to be UB, and I was surprised that Robz kept pushing Joseph after the claim.

This is a nice little rhethoric trick. I also did not think Awaclus looked like claiming UB. But that doesn't really matter, does it? The question is, is it conceivable that Robz thought so? And that is very much the case I believe.

I said that "confirmed" is what I posted in my QT, because it was half a joke, and something that I hadn't planned on sharing.  I only shared it because I picked up on something that other people did.  I think it does matter if I think Awaclus looked like he was claiming UB.  That is the only measure I have for seeing if I believed that Robz honestly thought that.

It also comes from a scum mindset to have someone not be counterclaimed, and still push them toward a lynch.  Especially when it is the universal backup, which isn't super useful in this game.

This is also a sort of cliché read.

I don't really get what you mean here

I do however think that this top 3 stuff is not really all that helpful.  It gives scum a lot of information, and it is also easy for them to hide their partners.  I think more than anything, it just wasn't thoroughly thought through.

I don't really get why people would think Jake's proposal is so problematic. It gets people to state some reads, which is generally a good thing. BUt I guess this is not alignment-indicative.

So there is lots of stuff I don't like. The only thing that worries me a bit is that I did not find a towny-sounding post. That's usually a sign of confirmation bias. So I'd like other people to weigh in on this.

Well you really did choose to view everything I have done in a scum-centered light.  I have been giving solid reads on people as I have been reading the game.  I haven't been lurking, and I still think that Robz is our best shot at lynching scum today.  I think it was Axxle that said that his correct lynch rate was high because he looks at individual posts to find someone scummy, and I think that can be a very good technique.

responses in bold.

[gkrieg13]

Faust, that's a good case on gkrieg. It's also tempered with enough reasonable doubt that I'm getting a really strong town read on you, so good job. That's almost of more value than the case itself.

I should probably look back at gkrieg. I don't think it's that scummy of him to suspect/vote me before I laid out the reasoning for my Joseph skepticism. And I have noticed that gkrieg tends to always read me as scum.

I think I have correctly read you as scum twice.

[gkrieg13]

I like the gkrieg case from Faust, it was me who said he was defending Joseph before Joseph's claim which I thought was scummy as well as the whole pretending to be disinterested theory EFHW mentioned.

vote: gkrieg

I think I already addressed this.  So from a town mindset, if I think that Joseph is townie, what am I supposed to do in that situation?  Why is defending Joseph (who I have played many games with) scummy?

Also I wasn't pretending to be disinterested.  This is just how I play D1 usually.  Trust me, I come alive D2.

[schadd]

Vote Count 1.fast

Robz888 (2): gkrieg13, Awaclus
Awaclus (2): Robz888, Joseph2302
EFHW (1): The_Wine_Merchant
gkrieg13 (3): EFHW, mcmcsalot, faust
mcmcsalot (1): JaketheBaseballGod22
faust (1): ashersky

Not Voting (2): Calamitas, Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I like the gkrieg case from Faust, it was me who said he was defending Joseph before Joseph's claim which I thought was scummy as well as the whole pretending to be disinterested theory EFHW mentioned.

vote: gkrieg

I think I already addressed this.  So from a town mindset, if I think that Joseph is townie, what am I supposed to do in that situation?  Why is defending Joseph (who I have played many games with) scummy?

Also I wasn't pretending to be disinterested.  This is just how I play D1 usually.  Trust me, I come alive D2.

Very true

[Robz888]

Gkrieg is a strong enough town asset that I am highly resistance to lynching him Day 1, even if he's suspicious.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Vote Count 1.fast

Robz888 (2): gkrieg13, Awaclus
Awaclus (2): Robz888, Joseph2302
EFHW (1): The_Wine_Merchant
gkrieg13 (3): EFHW, mcmcsalot, faust
mcmcsalot (1): JaketheBaseballGod22
faust (1): ashersky

Not Voting (2): Calamitas, Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

This is why I tried to narrow the lynch pool because there is no one person who were debating over now and every one is just throwing out different people. If we had narrowed it even if it helped scum we may have been able to have a consensus lynch not a rushed deadline vote. If we had three people that we could debate over then everybody could have made cases for or against said player. It would not have been chaos(Which btw helps scum a lot) like it is now.

[gkrieg13]

Gkrieg is a strong enough town asset that I am highly resistance to lynching him Day 1, even if he's suspicious.

Maybe this way I will survive the night.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I also don't feel very confident about lynching anyone today.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

It would not have been chaos(Which btw helps scum a lot) like it is now.

I don't feel like it is chaos.

[Roadrunner7671]

I also don't feel very confident about lynching anyone today.

Then why do you keep trying to narrow the lynch pool and direct everyone if you don't really care?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

It would not have been chaos(Which btw helps scum a lot) like it is now.

I don't feel like it is chaos.

Who have we all been talking over recently? There have been 3 different people voted for in the last 2 pages when we should be narrowing down our choices as we approach the deadline. Scum wants a rushed deadline lynch because it creates chaos and is hard to read. That is what is going to happen and that is what we don't want. 

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.fast

Robz888 (2): gkrieg13, Awaclus
Awaclus (2): Robz888, Joseph2302
EFHW (1): The_Wine_Merchant
gkrieg13 (3): EFHW, mcmcsalot, faust
mcmcsalot (1): JaketheBaseballGod22
faust (1): ashersky

Not Voting (2): Calamitas, Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.

This is why I tried to narrow the lynch pool because there is no one person who were debating over now and every one is just throwing out different people. If we had narrowed it even if it helped scum we may have been able to have a consensus lynch not a rushed deadline vote. If we had three people that we could debate over then everybody could have made cases for or against said player. It would not have been chaos(Which btw helps scum a lot) like it is now.

Why narrow it to three, specifically?  Why let everyone help narrow, instead of having Joseph (for example) do it?  Why is a rushed deadline lynch so bad?  They've worked out before and those rushed posts are good scumhunting tools.

I can think of scummy reasons for you to push this narrowing idea, you know.  More than towny reasons, too. 

Still, seems like rookie town to me.

[ashersky]

It would not have been chaos(Which btw helps scum a lot) like it is now.

I don't feel like it is chaos.

Who have we all been talking over recently? There have been 3 different people voted for in the last 2 pages when we should be narrowing down our choices as we approach the deadline. Scum wants a rushed deadline lynch because it creates chaos and is hard to read. That is what is going to happen and that is what we don't want.

Wrong.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I also don't feel very confident about lynching anyone today.

Then why do you keep trying to narrow the lynch pool and direct everyone if you don't really care?

Because I don't feel confidently about lynching anyone but i still want a decent lynch that most people agree on not a rushed deadline one.

[ashersky]

Also, I sort of built in a no lynch into this setup, but it's never been used.  Wouldn't be opposed to seeing how that played out.

[ashersky]

I also don't feel very confident about lynching anyone today.

Then why do you keep trying to narrow the lynch pool and direct everyone if you don't really care?

Because I don't feel confidently about lynching anyone but i still want a decent lynch that most people agree on not a rushed deadline one.

Translation: I want to be able to safely hide behind a forced consensus when we mislynch.

[Roadrunner7671]

Also, I sort of built in a no lynch into this setup, but it's never been used.  Wouldn't be opposed to seeing how that played out.

Tell us more!

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I'll be on towards the deadline to vote the rushed lynch. Will wait for the D-2 to give my theory and reads.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I also don't feel very confident about lynching anyone today.

Then why do you keep trying to narrow the lynch pool and direct everyone if you don't really care?

Because I don't feel confidently about lynching anyone but i still want a decent lynch that most people agree on not a rushed deadline one.

Translation: I want to be able to safely hide behind a forced consensus when we mislynch.

Translation: I'm gonna see how the flip turns before I start laying out cases on my reads.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I also don't feel very confident about lynching anyone today.

Then why do you keep trying to narrow the lynch pool and direct everyone if you don't really care?

Because I don't feel confidently about lynching anyone but i still want a decent lynch that most people agree on not a rushed deadline one.

Translation: I want to be able to safely hide behind a forced consensus when we mislynch.

Man this day is frustrating

[ashersky]

I also don't feel very confident about lynching anyone today.

Then why do you keep trying to narrow the lynch pool and direct everyone if you don't really care?

Because I don't feel confidently about lynching anyone but i still want a decent lynch that most people agree on not a rushed deadline one.

Translation: I want to be able to safely hide behind a forced consensus when we mislynch.

Translation: I'm gonna see how the flip turns before I start laying out cases on my reads.

Your translation is scummier than mine.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

It would not have been chaos(Which btw helps scum a lot) like it is now.

I don't feel like it is chaos.

Who have we all been talking over recently? There have been 3 different people voted for in the last 2 pages when we should be narrowing down our choices as we approach the deadline. Scum wants a rushed deadline lynch because it creates chaos and is hard to read. That is what is going to happen and that is what we don't want.

You sure seem to know a lot about what scum wants. You know what triggered people voting all over the place. Your suggestion to list three different people. That is what caused this so-called chaos.