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[O]

Now, did O swoop in to dramatically rescue his scumbuddy? Sure looks like that to me.

I can create a convincing argument on why it's not O/Morgrim:

1) If there was an O/Morgrim scumteam, there are two possibilities for an ending:
a) we instawin
b) we asplode in a giant ball of fire and bus ourselves to oblivion.

neither of these actually involve any effort from the town. It's more strategic to make choices assuming me/morgrim aren't scum, then.

(but NO, I am not scum and Morgrim probably isn't either. But you know that already).

[Eevee]

ITT, Robz seeing scumpairs on day 1.

I know you are frustrated, but "i am not scum because those two are" is not a very good defense.

[Robz888]

ITT, Robz seeing scumpairs on day 1.

I know you are frustrated, but "i am not scum because those two are" is not a very good defense.

I'm not defending myself; the case against me is absurd.

I have explained, repeatedly, why Morgrim's insanity is scummy in this game, whereas it wasn't in other games.

One plausible explanation for O's behavior is that he is a scumbuddy. Of course it would surprise me if he actually was. You think I've forgotten how unlikely it is to actually find mafia, let alone two?

If we lynch Morgrim, and he is scum, we'll look at O next.

[O]

ITT, Robz seeing scumpairs on day 1.

I know you are frustrated, but "i am not scum because those two are" is not a very good defense.

I'm not defending myself; the case against me is absurd.

I have explained, repeatedly, why Morgrim's insanity is scummy in this game, whereas it wasn't in other games.

One plausible explanation for O's behavior is that he is a scumbuddy. Of course it would surprise me if he actually was. You think I've forgotten how unlikely it is to actually find mafia, let alone two?

If we lynch Morgrim, and he is scum, we'll look at O next.

OK, we'll consider that iff you flip town.

[ashersky]

Anyone else got some reads they'd like to share? Jorbles, whom do you think is scum? Cuzz, what about you?

I don't have super original opinions right now, but that's because we don't really have a lot to go on, at this point. Robz's rush for a Morgrim lynch does strike me as scummy, but not without merit. (Morgrim's rush into the game made a lynch on him seem like a great idea.) His call for lynching a noob, get's my hackles up, but that might just be because I am one. His early game strat does seem to imply that he's trying to throw a bunch of lynch possibilities out there and see if any of them stick.

I still don't like O's early game lurking, but his analysis of Robz's play does seem to be the best thing we have to go on at this point in the game. And the points he makes are good ones. I don't fault him for his current read on Robz. 

Morgrim's play seemed crazy when he showed up, but he has since calmed down. I don't know, I could support a policy lynch on him if we get close to deadline if we get deadlocked, but at this point I'd like to observe him for a longer portion of the game. Robz's most recent point of the preplanned Morgrim Insanity Defense could be plausible, but seems speculative at this point. I agree that his playstyle could just be a meta game thing to mask his scumminess, but I have no reason to think so yet.

Geolib seems to be playing pretty cautiously, which I like. Slight town vibe here, but I guess it could be a good mask.

Ditto for Eevee.

Captain_Frisk hasn't been around as much as I'd like a player to be, but this isn't inherently scummy. He is playing multiple games, and admits he is behind on all of them. This could be a great meta strategy if he were scum in all of them, but the odds of that are small. Basically I've got no read on him at this point.

ashersky has been willing to leap onto numerous wagons, which could be scummy or could just be how ash plays. Very slight scum read here, but I'm not even close to willing to vote for ash.

Cuzz has also been willing to leap onto wagons, but expressed regret and unvoted when a call for more thought was made. This strikes me as more inexperience than scum play.

So that's what I think of everyone at this point in the game.

I can get on board with most of these reads.  I'll mention where I differ, based on what little we have to go on so far.

Robz888: Still get the slightly scummy vibe, for previously mentioned issues.  Then again, reading some of his non-game posts on d.fs make me think maybe it's just his writing style.  Also, unvote.

I don't see an O/Morgrim duo at the moment, and Robz toss there could be indicative.  O reads slightly scummy, though, just based on forcefulness.  Morgrim is just crazy, so I think it's just too difficult to nail down his true intent.

Agree on Frisk, Geolib, and Cuzz for now, all strike me as good folk.  Jorbles reads non-scum for now. 

I think Eevee is the one flying under the radar, which is always suspect.  What does pointing the FOS do?  Anything?

[O]

for the record Robz reaction to the case has made me so convinced that I will not be voting for any non-robz candidate for lynch for, idk, the rest of the game?

until
a) Robz dies
b) Robz is cleared by a cop/other scum is found by a cop
c) I die.

[Eevee]

FoS does nothing. Just a way to show you suspect someone without actually casting a vote. I personally dont think it's very effective, votes build pressure which is good, fos is just too mild.

[GeoLib]

As I've said before, I agree with Robz that this seems like Morgrim playing Morgrim, but then again I don't have any direct experience with Morgrim in the past, so I'd be interested to hear other veteran's take. Is this Morgrim-as-usual or something else? Frisk?

Looks like Eevee already gave his opinion:

Everyone, I don't think Morgrim is scum. Too inconsistent for that, he is just having fun with us (just like O was with his "force myself to L-1"-plan).

Robz's defense does seem scummy, but O's declaration that he won't vote for anyone else seems a little ridiculous. How on earth can you be so sure? I'd buy a Robz scum, but I'd also buy a frustrated Robz VT. The scum-pair hunting was pretty ridiculous though... What's the probability of finding that. 1 in 36? At this point I wouldn't be adverse to a Robz lynch, but I'm not sold.

I was going to agree with Ashersky on Eevee "flying under the radar," but then I actually reread some of his posts and I think he's been contributing well though staying back a bit. Maybe this is scummy or maybe he's just letting newbies have a chance (if it's the latter, thanks!)

As for Fos, I think I'm the only one who's used it so far (other than the Fos on Galzria... ). I think it can be useful just to indicate you suspect someone when people are skimming. So me putting FoS makes it easier for someone to go "Aha! This is where GeoLib say Morgrim seems suspicious." Probably not that useful, but acronyms are fun!

[O]

seriously do you guys expect a better case to magically appear D1.

[GeoLib]

seriously do you guys expect a better case to magically appear D1.

Not really, but I expect that everyone will change their reads after D1 and not make a game-long vote on someone. I also think that we have plenty of time to mull things over and want to hear Frisk's take

[Robz888]

I hope I do get lynched. The expression on your faces will be well worth it.

[Cuzz]

I hope I do get lynched. The expression on your faces will be well worth it.

Arite, this is some anti-town stuff right here.

[Eevee]

seriously do you guys expect a better case to magically appear D1.

Not really, but I expect that everyone will change their reads after D1 and not make a game-long vote on someone. I also think that we have plenty of time to mull things over and want to hear Frisk's take

+1, well said.

Geo and ashersky, what exactly do you mean by me "staying back"?

[GeoLib]

seriously do you guys expect a better case to magically appear D1.

Not really, but I expect that everyone will change their reads after D1 and not make a game-long vote on someone. I also think that we have plenty of time to mull things over and want to hear Frisk's take

+1, well said.

Geo and ashersky, what exactly do you mean by me "staying back"?

Meh. As I said, I think that after reading your posts that it wasn't really true. It just seemed like you hadn't come out with any really forceful opinions, which actually seems more protown than some of the wagon joining we've seen. Come to think of it, that seems very similar to how I've been playing...

Oh, and thanks 

[O]

being hesitant won't look protown after Robz flips scum, FYI.

[Jorbles]

seriously do you guys expect a better case to magically appear D1.

Not really, but I expect that everyone will change their reads after D1 and not make a game-long vote on someone. I also think that we have plenty of time to mull things over and want to hear Frisk's take

+1, well said.

Geo and ashersky, what exactly do you mean by me "staying back"?

I agree that we probably won't get a better candidate, but I also want everyone to weigh in before we go ahead with the lynch.

I'm also curious as to what ashersky means by Eevee flying under the radar. I haven't noticed it, but maybe I'm just missing something/maybe it's working?

[GeoLib]

I hope I do get lynched. The expression on your faces will be well worth it.

And what would that expression be...? You've claimed VT, so assuming you're telling the truth we'd go "Damn! Another non-scum lynch D1, but at least we didn't lynch a PR." Then we'd analyze the wagon. I understand you're frustrated (honestly, O is starting to frustrate me too), but hoping for your own lynch if you're town is anti-town. That's a Morgrim move.

being hesitant won't look protown after Robz flips scum, FYI.

But we don't know he's scum! Being cautious (or hesitant, as you put it) is pro-town. It would be anti-town to rush into a wagon. Now if we were a few days from deadline, things would be different, but you came out accusing Robz in your first post 28 hours after game start and are acting surprised that we didn't insta-lynch him.

[Robz888]

I hope I do get lynched. The expression on your faces will be well worth it.

And what would that expression be...? You've claimed VT, so assuming you're telling the truth we'd go "Damn! Another non-scum lynch D1, but at least we didn't lynch a PR." Then we'd analyze the wagon. I understand you're frustrated (honestly, O is starting to frustrate me too), but hoping for your own lynch if you're town is anti-town. That's a Morgrim move.

being hesitant won't look protown after Robz flips scum, FYI.

But we don't know he's scum! Being cautious (or hesitant, as you put it) is pro-town. It would be anti-town to rush into a wagon. Now if we were a few days from deadline, things would be different, but you came out accusing Robz in your first post 28 hours after game start and are acting surprised that we didn't insta-lynch him.

I mean, of course you're right. I don't actually hope I get lynched.

[Eevee]

My style of posting tends to be.. agreeing and nice (sort of like my avatar, I'm all fluffy guys). This has happened in the past, I've been called "scummy" for it numerous times come to think of it (in games where I've been town). If you read my posts in any other game, I'm sure you'll notice I'm not being any different here.

And the fact to the matter is, I've been active and vocal, said reasonable things (imo) and touched all the relevant issues. Definitely not flying under the radar on purpose!

[Jorbles]

being hesitant won't look protown after Robz flips scum, FYI.

But we don't know he's scum! Being cautious (or hesitant, as you put it) is pro-town. It would be anti-town to rush into a wagon. Now if we were a few days from deadline, things would be different, but you came out accusing Robz in your first post 28 hours after game start and are acting surprised that we didn't insta-lynch him.

And saying what O said only promotes survivalist tendencies amongst town, which can be confused with scum moves, and makes it more difficult to analyze town vs scum moves later on. We don't all need to make it to the end to win, but we should make careful  decisions. If Robz is going to flip scum, he'll still flip scum if we lynch him today or if we lynch him right before deadline. If he flips town than it'll be good for us to delay so we have more material to analyze on d2.

[Cuzz]

Talk is good, but eventually we do have to put some votes in. Right now I feel comfortable voting and I Vote: Robz again (votes => pressure => good, right Eevee?).

O has listed some good reasons. A few more:

Robz basically behaved almost exactly as Morgrim did with his "the looks on your faces" comment. Not a self-vote exactly, but still. Robz demanded a policy lynch on Morgrim for similar behavior.

He suggested lynching based on experience. I just have a hard time imagining a townie really supporting this idea.

Both his accusations and defensive statements seem way over the top to me. More subjective, sure, but still. I'm just getting a real scummy vibe.

Pile the votes on or don't, either way I just want to get some serious discussion going on this. Otherwise we'll be in the exact same place at the deadline.

[Robz888]

Robz basically behaved almost exactly as Morgrim did with his "the looks on your faces" comment. Not a self-vote exactly, but still. Robz demanded a policy lynch on Morgrim for similar behavior.

He suggested lynching based on experience. I just have a hard time imagining a townie really supporting this idea.

You misunderstand why I am voting for Morgrim. I am not voting him for policy reasons. Policy reasons are also valid against Morgrim, but I am voting him because he is trying to feign his usual townie craziness. He is in fact acting substantially MORE crazy than usual. So crazy, it's staged. He basically did the two most anti-town things he could do, and he did them immediately in his first vote. It's over the top crazy, because he's trying ACT crazy. He thought me, maybe Frisk, O and Eevee would overlook him for that reason. This is why I am voting for him. I believe he is scum. O's strange rescue of him has also made O suspicious to me.

As to lynching based on experience, in MVII, I feel like a big part of the problem was that the first 3 deaths (lynches and Nkills) were the 3 smartest and most experienced players. Didn't give the town much of a chance.

[ashersky]

On the topic of Eevee under the radar, I think it's just felt like you've been less vocal than others, but maybe it's just others being more vocal than you, if that makes any sense.  I think you've had some posts where you've reined in the voting, and maybe that was a guiding hand on a wayward ship, or it was a gentle push in a direction that helps scum...or none of the above.  I'm nowhere near voting for Eevee, though, just not completely convinced of his intentions.  Which I think is how we probably all should be about everyone, at the very least.

I can see reasons for voting for both Robz and Morgrim at this point, and they seem like the leading candidates for a D1 lynch.  Plenty of time for that to change though.  O seems to have drawn Robz ire, but no one else's; is that suspect?

@all on FOS explanation -- thanks.

[Eevee]

Strange, I would have guessed I have posted more than almost anyone here. Certainly 10 times more than Frisk or Morgrim. How do people do post counts? Just going through every person in print mode?

[Voltgloss]

Vote Count 1-6

Robz888 (2): O, Cuzz
Morgrim7 (1): Robz888

Not voting (6): Eevee, Jorbles, Morgrim7, GeoLib, Captain_Frisk, ashersky

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Lynch deadline: Monday, August 27, at noon forum time (EDT)