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[Archetype]

Im still questioning why Galz decided to kill Insom.

I mean, I thought he was Town. And he was a MA! Galz, could you please explain?

[Galzria]

Actually, hermit does sound like a SK role - he is alone and goes around silting people's necks.

Galz - why didn't you stangle EEVEE? You are stronman, it goes through everything, and you 100% knew he was SCUM?

Read everything Robz wrote as he died. He was 100% right. My PM to Cayvie was basically this:

"If Ins is lying, and I kill Eevee, I've likely just killed the BP-Townie, while leaving scum Arcana alive (it's clear Ins isn't lying about being Arcana). What's worse, is people will instantly lynch me next, giving Insomniac and the other scum a free night to reign over us.

If Ins is lying and I kill him - great!

If Ins is telling the truth, then Eevee is MA Scum. This is a scary proposition. BUT, if I kill Insomniac now, there's a good chance he'll be Doctored. This will prove my towniness (well, that and the strangling), AND I'll likely inherit a power to help town. This path would (hopefully) lead to Eevee being revealed and not living to see another night."

---

Yes, it was a risky move, but being wrong (which I was) was less bad going this route, then being wrong going the other route.

[Galzria]

Actually gonna bold this;

Galz - why didn't you stangle EEVEE? You are stronman, it goes through everything, and you 100% knew he was SCUM?

Okay let me try to reason this out. We know Insomniac is town. Therefore he was telling the truth. One QT now among Eevee and Galzria. If Eevee is telling the truth, he has no QT. Then Galz could be a Mason, having access to a QT. One problem with that; he claimed Strongman Vig. Galz is lying here. This is what I'm seeing.

Is there a scenario where Galz IS a strongman vig and Eevee is a bulletproof scum?? Well then Galz knew Eevee was scum pretty much, on the account that Insom was telling the truth. Insom provided a lot of evidence I felt, I would have shot Eevee over Insom in Galz' situation personally.

Eevee is being kinda hedgy here, he's acting weird.

You are fighting this really hard. Quite simply: I didn't honestly believe Eevee was the only other MA in the game, and while Insomniac gave enough evidence to more or less prove he's MA, nothing he provided proved he was town - as was discussed to death yesterday.

At the end of the day, letting Scum!Insomniac live and shooting Town!Eevee was a worse proposition than letting Scum!Eevee live and shooting Town!Insomniac.

I AM the Strongman, and Insomniac WAS town. So was Robz. Now do the math.

[Galzria]

Robz wanting to Vig me is ridiculous. YES my claim makes me more like death, I promise I'm town and this isn't a gambit.

Pros to lynching Robz: He wants to vig me, didn't note a role in the list he keeps toting everyone to know, and tried to dayvig eevee when there was no consensus

Pros to lynching Galz: The wording above was used TWICE. Because there is only one QT between the 3 players it is IMPOSSIBLE for Robz to be scum and also vig scum, although I still think Robz would have dayvigged as scum.

I know I am town, and I know eevee is town, so if Galzria is actually town, he should shoot you. Is Galzria actually town? Probably not, but it's possible. I think it's less possible now that you've explained fully.

Volt, if Eevee is a bulletproof scum major arcana... I mean I'm just not weighing that option all too seriously.

If I flip town, do you all agree (other than galz), that Eevee should not die? I think that's like obvious.

But most importantly of all, THIS:

Galz, why wouldn't scum-MA-Eevee have a QT?  O was a scum Major Arcana in the first game, and he had a QT.

So... You think that not only did Insomniac find the only other MA in the game, but that MA is part of a scum team, and is bullet-proof? AND Insomniac found the Dayvig, who just happened to shoot the second MA to no effect?

Or, you know, Occam's Razor:

He found 1 scum!team player, and 2 notscum!team players. If I'm scum (which you'll know I'm not upon my lynch), then he found both the 1-shot Dayvig, and the bullet-proof VT, AND they happened to collide to no effect.

Except that goes out the window after my flip. What he found, was Scum!Robz (King of Swords). He found me (5 of Pentacles, as claimed in my 5th game post), and he found Eevee, who could be either Nine of Wands (BPVT), OR Ace of Wands (Mafia Immune SK).

Even without knowing for a fact yet that I'm town, Occam's razor says that option 3 is the most likely, since it isn't a 1-in-the-entire-deck chance that Robz' dayvig fails. And even if you're considering me scum now, options 2 & 3 are still far, far more likely than option 1.

Not to mention, my god, freaking READ Robz. This is the SAME ROBZ that gunned for my head as hard as could, throwing out bad case after bad case in the very latest blitz game, all the whole going "Scum Robz wouldn't play like this! He wouldn't make cases like this! He wouldn't paint himself into a Robz or Galz like this!".

Look, I don't MIND dying here. I'm town, and I'll take a 1-1 trade every single day of the week and twice on Sunday. But Robz IS scum. And there's a higher than average chance Eevee is too. If I'm not the only Vig in the game, Eevee should be shot tonight. If he's WW-Immune, he won't block regular kills. Robz should be lynched tomorrow.

Obviously, Robz not being scum was a blow... But I honestly DID NOT think that Insomniac happened to find both Vig's AND the other MA, who just HAPPENED to be Bullet-Proof (and if Insomniac was telling the truth, then after Robz' death I ALSO would've had to accept that the second MA was bullet-proof scum that he found).

It honestly just didn't seem very bloody likely. Not compared to the idea that Insomniac might be lying MA scum.

[Archetype]

Alright. It did seem like killing Insomniac was the best way to varify the QT thing. Thanks for the reply.

I'll Vote: Eevee. This vote is not definite, but Galz's explanation was good enough for me to vote for Eevee. Well that and Eevee's general scumminess and scrambling. I really do want him to prove he is Town, I don't really want us to lose another TownMA. But until then, this vote stays there.

[Cuzz]

shit shit shit this is like the fastest moving game of all time and I'm so behind already. Just popping in to remind folks that I'm in this game and alive and will try to be useful once I catch up.

[Eevee]

How have I been scrambling? I was and am phone posting, surely the formatting is a little wacky - I just type stuff and hit post.

Galzria, I feel you are dodging my questions. I dont know whats up! I dont particularly want to lynch you, the only explanations for for all this i csn imagine are a) Ins made a mistake / some redirecting power messed up his results or b) you gained some flavour manipulation powers from killing him.
I am town! And I claimed power role who can prove it!! I wish Robz was here to yell people you shouldn't lynch those..

I realize this seems unlikely to you, which is very frustrating to me. But really, isnt the alternative rather scummy as well?

[Grujah]

I am town! And I claimed power role who can prove it!! I wish Robz was here to yell people you shouldn't lynch those..

As I said, and I think robz would agree, you can prove power but not alligence.

[Eevee]

I am town! And I claimed power role who can prove it!! I wish Robz was here to yell people you shouldn't lynch those..

As I said, and I think robz would agree, you can prove power but not alligence.

I think my power is such that it doesnt make sense as a non-bastard scum role. It would be negative utility!

[Grujah]

If you want to make such remarks, and have them taken seriously, you do need to do a full claim. I am not leaving a MA alive on the basis of "My rule is supercool and supercrazy, and trust me, I'm town" when proof says that Galz is, in fact, town.

[Lekkit]

Vla for the day. New years and all that. I was s bitsuspicious of Eevee yesterday, and im more suspicious now. I would vote for him if I wasnt going vla. wil maybe pop in later.

[Eevee]

If you want to make such remarks, and have them taken seriously, you do need to do a full claim. I am not leaving a MA alive on the basis of "My rule is supercool and supercrazy, and trust me, I'm town" when proof says that Galz is, in fact, town.

I think Galz being town is more probable than him being scum (which was a tough pill for me to swallow knowing my own alignment). Clearly something weird has happened, but lynching a town major arcana is not going to help us much. Going into a 26 hour VLA now, happy new years!

[Lekkit]

and dont do anyrhing hasty...

[shraeye]

Some Eevee stuff

I'll lightning rod tonight. If my BP was one shot, I'll die..

Except...Doctors...

Yeahh, this is why I didnt want to claim and also why I think not claiming would have been the correct move if I was the bulletproof townie. I'm a major arcana, the hermit. I'm a bulletproof one-shot lightning rod. I'd rather not claim everything it means, because i think that could instruct scum on how to construct their night actions.

I DO NOT have a qt though. Everyone, does a bulletproof cult leader (or any other type of scum) just make any sense at all? This is not a bastard game. I can prove I'm a lightning rod next night.

Unless someone can explain galz strangling people, I'm really lost though. no one but the strongman vigilante should be able to do that, but I know I just don't have a qt.

Why didn't you just lighting tonight, that would pretty much prove it.

If you are bulletproof oneshot lightning rod, and town - you pretty much just need to activate rod once and than prove your towniness and than you cannot die.

That is even less logical.

Also I agree with this.  Oneshot lightning rod that is full bullet proof as Eevee was claiming?  This would be a breaking strategy, something about Eevee's claim isn't fully fleshed out.  And Eevee could be doing this to avoid giving the juicy details of his role for scum to mess with.  But ask ourselves this.  cayvie is randomly drawing cards and wants to make a fun, balanced game.  Does she give BOTH Major Arcana roles a town-alignment?  No.  Then town is overpowered.


On a semi-related note from ashersky/Grujah interaction:

BTW - Grujah shooting questions and posts in a rapidly fashing, like right now - town Grujah.
Take a note for further games.

Are you town? 

I believe his towniness, this is how I remember town-Grujah acting.

[shraeye]

Actually, hermit does sound like a SK role - he is alone and goes around silting people's necks.

Galz - why didn't you stangle EEVEE? You are stronman, it goes through everything, and you 100% knew he was SCUM?

Read everything Robz wrote as he died. He was 100% right. My PM to Cayvie was basically this:

"If Ins is lying, and I kill Eevee, I've likely just killed the BP-Townie, while leaving scum Arcana alive (it's clear Ins isn't lying about being Arcana). What's worse, is people will instantly lynch me next, giving Insomniac and the other scum a free night to reign over us.

If Ins is lying and I kill him - great!

If Ins is telling the truth, then Eevee is MA Scum. This is a scary proposition. BUT, if I kill Insomniac now, there's a good chance he'll be Doctored. This will prove my towniness (well, that and the strangling), AND I'll likely inherit a power to help town. This path would (hopefully) lead to Eevee being revealed and not living to see another night."

---

Yes, it was a risky move, but being wrong (which I was) was less bad going this route, then being wrong going the other route.

This is a very reasonable explanation.  I buy Galzria's towniness.  Here's another weird thing related to this all.

i wasn't saying lynch galz. we have FOUR flips..

Why not lynch Galz? If you're town AND if Insom's information was correct (and it did come from a towny), then Galz must somehow be lying.

[shraeye]

Actually gonna bold this;

Galz - why didn't you stangle EEVEE? You are stronman, it goes through everything, and you 100% knew he was SCUM?

maybe cuz you knew you had strangler flavor as scum and wanted to prove your "towness" with it?

how though? how!


 i don't get any of the good stuff before I use the rod, but the more I wait the better the stuff is.

Bulletproof isn't 'good stuff'?

I think I want to lynch Galz today. I don't really want to lynch another MA (especially if he's town) and Galz is a named VT now while having a MA as scum would be powerful.

Again, highly unlikely that both MAs are town in my opinion.

Reason I'm asking is I am way more resistant to lynching you as part of a trade if you are upgraded.

I'd be happy to lynch upgraded scum.  Town actually did great last night, killing two mafias.  We don't need to bank on upgraded Eevee being town, and if he's not that will be an enormous thorn in our side.

Grujah, would you be satisfied with me vigged the following night?

I wouldn't be satisfied with this.  You already survived one vigging.

[Archetype]

I think its possible both MAs could be Town. Both MAs were scum last game.

I really think Eevee should fullclaim. I dont think I want to let him undber the basis of "I'm a MA so you should let me live!!"

I mean, it would suck if we lose him and he's Town, but it would suck even more if we let him live and he's Scum.

We could just No Lynch, or lynch someone else today. We see if Eevee Lightning Rods. If he does, that means he is most likely Town and then we lynch Galz. If he doesnt, then we lynch Eevee tommorow.

But then if Eevee's power really gets better as the game goes on, do we really want to keep him alive if he's Scum?

[sparky5856]

Already said, just because he Lightning Rod's doesn't mean the status of his alignment changes. ftl was a scum lightning rod in Robz's mega-game. With Eevee being Bulletproof, a Lightning-Rod power makes sense, so I wouldn't be surprised if he did possess that power.

[Eevee]

super skimmed, sheaye almost aggravates me. ithink I've explained this like 4 times, I csnt think of any other way for galz to be scum other than scum redirecting Ins,
galz gaining flavour-inventing powers from killing Ins or Ins just making a mistake.

also the major arcanas are randomized just like any other roles, two of them
being town aligned isnt weird at all

[Grujah]

Arch I am confortable lynching after Eevee. They we he hedged about eevee at start, and his big Galzria accusatory post at start of day scratched an itch, coupled with his super friendliness D1.

[Archetype]

Already said, just because he Lightning Rod's doesn't mean the status of his alignment changes. ftl was a scum lightning rod in Robz's mega-game. With Eevee being Bulletproof, a Lightning-Rod power makes sense, so I wouldn't be surprised if he did possess that power.

I know. That's why I said most likely Town. Not obvtown.

I think if Eevee were scum, he would be self aligned. I can't see someone with the name Hermit being part of a WW or Mafia team.

[Grujah]

Though, we might want to focus on these:
"Ashersky, Axxle, and yuma"

As there sure are werewolves, and them are likely to be some. Axxle is mia and yuma ain't as invisible with his D1 errors. Ash I don't know.

[Archetype]

If Eevee is self-aligned, if he gets lynched, I don't think it makes Galz obvtown.

[Galzria]

super skimmed, sheaye almost aggravates me. ithink I've explained this like 4 times, I csnt think of any other way for galz to be scum other than scum redirecting Ins,
galz gaining flavour-inventing powers from killing Ins or Ins just making a mistake.

also the major arcanas are randomized just like any other roles, two of them
being town aligned isnt weird at all

A) Insomniac couldn't be redirected. He choose the spell N0, and cast it on his choice of targets D1. Redirector is a night role, if it exists at all.

B) So the theory is that I claimed Strongman (yesterday), and claimed that I strangle (yesterday), but somehow had it all planned that I would kill Insomniac, gain "flavor manipulating powers", and use them to clear myself? Even though we had no clue to date what insomniac's MA did, and there was nothing to indicate "flavor manipulation" about him, and ADDITIONALLY, I got a 1-shot Detect Magic?

Uh-huh. Check. Got it.

[Galzria]

If Eevee is self-aligned, if he gets lynched, I don't think it makes Galz obvtown.

I would LOVE to hear an actual theory that has any, you know, logic to the contrary.