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[Witherweaver]

Remember back in Season 2 where everyone was complaining that the show made Stannis too likeable?

[Witherweaver]

But anyway, I just noticed tonight that in the opening sequence where they go city to city over the map and the scale models build up, I believe the map lists the name of every city.  However, when it gets to Sunspear (or, really, the Water Gardens), it just says "Dorne".  I guess they're not really mentioning the rest of Dorne so they don't feel the need to distinguish, or something.

[silverspawn]

Well... I would probably call this the best episode of the series. I think I haven't been this touched by a piece of film in over five years.

[Eevee]

Okay, it's back to horrible.

Well... I would probably call this the best episode of the series. I think I haven't been this touched by a piece of film in over five years.

Are we watching the same thing?


edit: To clarify I could take burning nice little girls and terrible fight scenes where the villains surround the hero and then attack one at the time for no reason whatsoever if there were any redeeming qualities. Of which there were none.

[silverspawn]

Okay, it's back to horrible.

Well... I would probably call this the best episode of the series. I think I haven't been this touched by a piece of film in over five years.

Are we watching the same thing?

dunno. can you explain what you found horrible about the episode without including anything from the book?

[Eevee]

Jorah having greyscale and touching people, including Dany, left and right. Why? Naturally he also survived being pinned to the ground without a weapon because why would you watch your back in a last man standing fight to death?


THE FIGHT SCENE AT THE END. Where were all their throwing spears once they surrounded Dany? Did they go to the same fighting school than James Bond villains that only allows attacking one at the time after you've surrounded your opponent? And for that matter, for such elite fighters, the Unsullied sure never seem to win any fights.

If I was only a show watcher, I'm pretty sure I'd be pulling for the white walkers at this point.

edit: Of course I'm exaggerating a little bit, I just watched the episode and I'm upset. A non hyperbole opinion: The quality has declined a saddening amount from seasons 1-3. My hopes for the future aren't very high, I can't think of a storyline I'm excited about right now.

edit2: While the Dorne stuff wasn't as bad this episode, some of the most powerful scenes/speeches are placed there in the books. The current show depiction is very bad (and Jaime's and Bronn's mission there of course makes no sense whatsoever). I am holding some hope for Dorne scenes in the finale episode though.

[silverspawn]

Jorah having greyscale and touching people, including Dany, left and right. Why?

It's never explained in the show exactly how the disease is transferred. Shireen has it too, and she's touching people all the time. I'm guessing that, in the novel, she can touch people because in her case the disease could be contained, whereas it is still 'running' on Jorah's body and the stonemen's. But that doesn't make it a logical inconsistency, just a small deviation from the books. It could easily be that touching other people isn't dangerous in early stages - in fact, that's what I had assumed instinctively. I never thought that Jorah couldn't touch people anymore.

Naturally he also survived being pinned to the ground without a weapon because why would you watch your back in a last man standing fight to death?

Dunno, being stabbed from behind in a tournament didn't break my suspension of disbelief, but I can see your point.

THE FIGHT SCENE AT THE END. Where were all their throwing spears once they surrounded Dany?

Okay, this is the only point where I think I agree with you, although I was too invested to notice it at the time.

Did they go to the same fighting school than James Bond villains that only allows attacking one at the time after you've surrounded your opponent?

Attacking at once would certainly have been the strategically superior decision - but whoever attacks first is probably dead, and they're not elite warriors, they're a bunch of fanatical rebels. I mean, I don't know enough about mass psychology in fight situations to make an informed judgement, but to me it made a ton of sense. I would've certainly listed it as one of the great things about the episode.

And for that matter, for such elite fighters, the Unsullied sure never seem to win any fights.

Well, I'm assuming this isn't a real complaint, they were largely outnumbered and it's made pretty clear during the last two relevant fight scenes that one unsullied is worth more than one son of the harpy in direct combat.

[Witherweaver]

I had trouble with the escape scene, in that I felt there was enough opening for one of them to get a projectile through to Dany.  I suppose, though, once Drogon came they were all distracted by the huge dragon.  I'm not certain how "unrealstic" the attacks were when they had the group surrounded.. in that the remaining fighters---Unsullied, Jorah, Darrio---are all strong enough fighters to take down the leads of any group that swarmed them.  However, the Sons of the Harpy have been depicted as particularly not afraid to die and attack recklessly in the past, so their caution here was a little odd. 

[eHalcyon]

Shireen was cured of the disease, though she was left scarred.

I'm not watching the show yet, but I don't understand your point about "mass psychology".  If they are fanatical rebels, they should have no problem putting their lives in danger.  If the first to attack is sure to die, that's all the more reason for all to attack simultaneously!  Attacking one at a time means that the first to attack dies for no real benefit and the second to attack is in about the same position and sure to die, and so on until the target is worn out.

[silverspawn]

Shireen was cured of the disease, though she was left scarred.

I'm not watching the show yet, but I don't understand your point about "mass psychology".  If they are fanatical rebels, they should have no problem putting their lives in danger.  If the first to attack is sure to die, that's all the more reason for all to attack simultaneously!  Attacking one at a time means that the first to attack dies for no real benefit and the second to attack is in about the same position and sure to die, and so on until the target is worn out.

Isn't that a pretty naive generalization? You have no idea what kind of people are under the masks. Just because someone is fighting for a faction doesn't mean that he has no desire to live. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them are almost normal people who just believe in a strong tradition and consider danny to be evil.

But more importantly, it's less a question of daring so much as organization, which is what I really mean. The logical approach would be for someone to give the command and the rest of them to attack simultaneously, but they just weren't very well organized. Is that really hard to believe?

[Witherweaver]

Shireen was cured of the disease, though she was left scarred.

I'm not watching the show yet, but I don't understand your point about "mass psychology".  If they are fanatical rebels, they should have no problem putting their lives in danger.  If the first to attack is sure to die, that's all the more reason for all to attack simultaneously!  Attacking one at a time means that the first to attack dies for no real benefit and the second to attack is in about the same position and sure to die, and so on until the target is worn out.

Isn't that a pretty naive generalization? You have no idea what kind of people are under the masks. Just because someone is fighting for a faction doesn't mean that he has no desire to live. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them are almost normal people who just believe in a strong tradition and consider danny to be evil.

But more importantly, it's less a question of daring so much as organization, which is what I really mean. The logical approach would be for someone to give the command and the rest of them to attack simultaneously, but they just weren't very well organized. Is that really hard to believe?

Not in general, but based on the fighting style we've seen from them in the past, I found it a little odd.

[eHalcyon]

Shireen was cured of the disease, though she was left scarred.

I'm not watching the show yet, but I don't understand your point about "mass psychology".  If they are fanatical rebels, they should have no problem putting their lives in danger.  If the first to attack is sure to die, that's all the more reason for all to attack simultaneously!  Attacking one at a time means that the first to attack dies for no real benefit and the second to attack is in about the same position and sure to die, and so on until the target is worn out.

Isn't that a pretty naive generalization? You have no idea what kind of people are under the masks. Just because someone is fighting for a faction doesn't mean that he has no desire to live. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them are almost normal people who just believe in a strong tradition and consider danny to be evil.

But more importantly, it's less a question of daring so much as organization, which is what I really mean. The logical approach would be for someone to give the command and the rest of them to attack simultaneously, but they just weren't very well organized. Is that really hard to believe?

I can imagine initial hesitation.  But after one person builds up the courage to attack, I'd expect the rest of the mob to follow in a flood.  Safety in numbers, no better opportunity. Those who are less certain would be forced to move forward anyway due to the press from behind.

But again, I haven't watched the show.  Maybe it's staged to make more sense.  Comments from others don't make that likely though.

[Eevee]

This is as much a complaint to the books as it is to the show, but Dany is just an annoying character, period. Everyone else in the universe has a legit chance to get got at any turn, but she always has her dragon ex machinas saving her (because we've been introduced to this other half of the world only because she is there and because dragonnsssss, she just can't die). I guess I'm a little upset that the person I was most rooting for just burned his daughter. Who to root for next?

Fwiw, these last two episodes we've largely surpassed the books. Bookreaders for the most part don't know where the story is going next (with a few exceptions of course), or had no idea of the big twists in the past two episodes.

I guess Shireen will be burnt in the book as well? Maybe without the knowledge of Stannis though? If it goes even remotely the same way, I think it's safe to assume he'll be needing a new hand. Hizdah not being the Harpy also confirmed now.

edit: HIS daughter. Eh.

[silverspawn]

Eh, I think the fight between John and the White Walker in the last episode was way more unrealistic than anything here. He could have killed him several times if he hadn't hesitated. That broke my suspension immediately, even though I wanted John to survive. This honestly seems like searching for something to dislike to me. I could of course be biased because I don't care as much for John though.

[Witherweaver]

This is as much a complaint to the books as it is to the show, but Dany is just an annoying character, period. Everyone else in the universe has a legit chance to get got at any turn, but she always has her dragon ex machinas saving her (because we've been introduced to this other half of the world only because she is there and because dragonnsssss, she just can't die). I guess I'm a little upset that the person I was most rooting for just burned her daughter. Who to root for next?

Fwiw, these last two episodes we've largely surpassed the books. Bookreaders for the most part don't know where the story is going next (with a few exceptions of course), or had no idea of the big twists in the past two episodes.

I guess Shireen will be burnt in the book as well? Maybe without the knowledge of Stannis though? If it goes even remotely the same way, I think it's safe to assume he'll be needing a new hand. Hizdah not being the Harpy also confirmed now.

Davos is Azor Ahai!!

[Witherweaver]

Eh, I think the fight between John and the White Walker in the last episode was way more unrealistic than anything here. He could have killed him several times if he hadn't hesitated. That broke my suspension immediately, even though I wanted John to survive. This honestly seems like searching for something to dislike to me. I could of course be biased because I don't care as much for John though.

Well, the part where Jon was digging for the dragon glass, and the White Walker picked him up and threw him across the room instead of simply killing him.  That was the worst one.

[Eevee]

I don't really care for any action scenes in anything, ever. The battle of the wall was amazing though, probably my all time favorite in all of film.

This season the Sand Snake fighting scenes were undeniably the worst.

[Witherweaver]

I don't really care for any action scenes in anything, ever. The battle of the wall was amazing though, probably my all time favorite in all of film.

This season the Sand Snake fighting scenes were undeniably the worst.

Sorry, Mountain vs. Oberyn was awesome.

[pacovf]

I guess I'm a little upset that the person I was most rooting for just burned her daughter.

Oh hai book readers are not welcome in this thread anymore I see.

[Witherweaver]

I guess I'm a little upset that the person I was most rooting for just burned her daughter.

Oh hai book readers are not welcome in this thread anymore I see.

Plot twist, Lady Stoneheart suddenly appeared in this episode, made her way up to Winterfell, and burned Sansa alive.

[silverspawn]

I don't really care for any action scenes in anything, ever. The battle of the wall was amazing though, probably my all time favorite in all of film.

how does this make sense? 

I usually don't care about action, because usually there is no suspense. It's different in this show, which is why I enjoy fight scenes in GoT.

[Voltaire]

This season I have been largely okay with the large-scale, overarching beats of the story (Sansa/Boltons excepted, they've got one more episode to justify it), but incredibly disappointed by the execution. Jaime in Dorne? Sure, why not! My book-reader soul is not tarnished by this. But then...nonsense. Shireen burning? I can completely see Book Stannis doing this down the road. But less than one episode of buildup about how ****ed his army is? That wasn't enough. Sure, we got the "you'll betray everything you'll hold dear" and "OMG Shireen is so ded" foreshadowing, so I was expecting it, but why it happened now, at that moment, was incredibly poorly shown.

[Witherweaver]

Well, the attack from Ramsay was supposed to indicate that things had gone  from bad to hopeless, but I agree that the pacing made it feel too quick.

[pacovf]

I guess I'm a little upset that the person I was most rooting for just burned her daughter.

Oh hai book readers are not welcome in this thread anymore I see.

Plot twist, Lady Stoneheart suddenly appeared in this episode, made her way up to Winterfell, and burned Sansa alive.

I didn't even notice the mistake. I was just complaining about the huge Schrodinger spoiler I just read.

[Witherweaver]

Silicon Valley reference?  Score!