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Author Topic: ZMX: Blitz Mafia X - The Veteran Games - Mafia Win Flawlessly!  (Read 89653 times)

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TheMunch

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Re: ZMX: Blitz Mafia X - The Veteran Games (Day 1)
« Reply #150 on: January 14, 2013, 09:22:53 pm »

For each correct lynch we still lose a town.  So no matter what each lynch a townie will die plus the nk.
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jotheonah

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Re: ZMX: Blitz Mafia X - The Veteran Games (Night 0)
« Reply #151 on: January 14, 2013, 09:32:54 pm »

So, conflicting. On the other hand I feel like trying to feel it out and being careful with my votes given it's a new setup. On the other hand, no games never get anywhere unless people actually commit to voting for the people they find scummy, so eh. But, the first half of day 1 should run pretty close to how it normally would, except no "lock" situation will ever be reached which never was an issue in blitz in the first place.

I would like EVERYONE to comment on this post and how it reflects on Eevee.

It gives me a slightly scummy vibe, outside of Eevee's meta. It has the stink of IIoA.

But it could so very easily be town Eevee, I don't place much store.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: ZMX: Blitz Mafia X - The Veteran Games (Day 1)
« Reply #152 on: January 14, 2013, 09:37:01 pm »

Well I think this is a blunder of meme-worthy proportions:

Creates a "complex and advanced" game which "offers... the largest strategic space we've ever had for both mafia and town as teams, and as individuals."

Is solved in half an hour.
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jotheonah

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Re: ZMX: Blitz Mafia X - The Veteran Games (Day 1)
« Reply #153 on: January 14, 2013, 09:38:15 pm »

Additionally I would like everyone to weigh in on how Robz/Mcmc/Galz all reacted to the theory that gave town a guaranteed win.

Slight town points all around, I guess.

But really, they reacted like Dominion players who just found a game breaking combo. Which is to say, with deviant glee. Damnit, that's a magic card, isn't it?

The only reason I give slight points there is that I imagine a certain sort of scum player might react by freaking out and trying to derail the idea/ keeping quiet for fear of helping town to a cheap win. But I don't really imagine any of the three of them would be that sort of shortsighted player as scum - I think they're all smart enough to go in for the free and easy towncred.

Well, I don't know mcmc as well and he is newer to the game. If anyone would have been spooked by that as town it ought to have been him, so I guess he does actually look pretty good.
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ashersky

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Re: ZMX: Blitz Mafia X - The Veteran Games (Day 1)
« Reply #154 on: January 14, 2013, 09:40:58 pm »

Well I think this is a blunder of meme-worthy proportions:

Creates a "complex and advanced" game which "offers... the largest strategic space we've ever had for both mafia and town as teams, and as individuals."

Is solved in half an hour.

Where's Voltgloss so he can Dsell you?

I'm just glad it was fixed so quickly.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: ZMX: Blitz Mafia X - The Veteran Games (Day 1)
« Reply #155 on: January 14, 2013, 09:42:38 pm »

I think it got to the point where it was obvious that the game needed a fix, and scum have a little more reason to want it fixed than Town do. So explicitly explaining how the game is broken and how Town can immediately win on day one could come from scum.  I mean, you could say that scum would say "Nah that wouldn't work let's not do that", but that wouldn't be very smart. So I'd say it's a pretty null read for all. Except, you know, Insom.
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Dsell

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Re: ZMX: Blitz Mafia X - The Veteran Games (Day 1)
« Reply #156 on: January 14, 2013, 09:44:12 pm »

Well I think this is a blunder of meme-worthy proportions:

Creates a "complex and advanced" game which "offers... the largest strategic space we've ever had for both mafia and town as teams, and as individuals."

Is solved in half an hour.

Where's Voltgloss so he can Dsell you?

I'm just glad it was fixed so quickly.


I am a verb now? Am I a verb that is synonymous with memeing?

If so, sweet. ;D
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jotheonah

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Re: ZMX: Blitz Mafia X - The Veteran Games (Day 1)
« Reply #157 on: January 14, 2013, 09:44:54 pm »

Strong scumread on Insom, clearly






 :P
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Insomniac

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Re: ZMX: Blitz Mafia X - The Veteran Games (Day 1)
« Reply #158 on: January 14, 2013, 11:42:09 pm »

FoS the low activity and people not answering my questions.
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Eevee

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Re: ZMX: Blitz Mafia X - The Veteran Games (Night 0)
« Reply #159 on: January 15, 2013, 12:32:18 am »

Catching up, I've spent all my phone access today in DS9.

So, conflicting. On the other hand I feel like trying to feel it out and being careful with my votes given it's a new setup. On the other hand, no games never get anywhere unless people actually commit to voting for the people they find scummy, so eh. But, the first half of day 1 should run pretty close to how it normally would, except no "lock" situation will ever be reached which never was an issue in blitz in the first place.

I would like EVERYONE to comment on this post and how it reflects on Eevee.
I don't know what you are looking for here. It's how I feel about this new setup: I'm confused as how to best tackle it. I honestly hoped someone would start posting mad theory and I'd get to think about different strategies through posts of others. I'm bad at figuring stuff out on my own. Or in the words of mom salon:
This seems like innocent eevee trying to figure out the setup, and being posotive about it, I got me some towny feels goin on over here.

Additionally I would like everyone to weigh in on how Robz/Mcmc/Galz all reacted to the theory that gave town a guaranteed win.
Meh, I mean I don't think how people react to stuff like that has got anything to do with alignments really. Didn't glean anything from it. Fwiw I would have suggested "lets not do this, at least not before ashersky gets a chance to give us a green light. Seems like a boring way to end a possibly awesome game."


I remember way back in blitz whatever, Eevee wanted to play "Sheep the IC", and even though almost every single person in the game disagreed with him, he absolutely would not back down over why it was a good idea. He was, of course, town.

Town!Eevee comes into new setups looking for the optimal play. If he thinks he's found it, he'll pursue it relentlessly. He has complete conviction in his ideas, regardless of what others think.

Here I get more of a sense that he was testing the waters, trying to see where people stand on how to use their votes. This slightly hedgy "maybe this way... But then maybe this way..." Eevee doesn't read as the same Eevee that takes his convictions and runs with them.

So I get a slight - SLIGHT - scum vibe from it. Because honestly at the end of the day this could just as easily be Town!Eevee just being uncomfortable with a new setup. In the end, it's not worth a vote over, but it does make me more aware of him.
I disagree with Galzria A LOT here. First of all, I did back down some from my stance, I went from "I'm think we should do this!" to "well, all of you can't be scum so it seems I'm wrong. I'm looking  forward to the end of the game so I can hear what people really really thought." I was surprised no one was even lying but you all actually thought the idea was THAT bad. I never quite understood why, although I did come around to thinking "meh, it's probably not good either". We are building up a sample size though, at least my idea would have guaranteed town >50% to win. .. not really, we'll never get enough games in to meaningfully analyze the winning probabilities of different factions. But, I digress!

I DO NOT think I'm the kind of guy who has complete conviction in my own ideas. On the contrary, as I explained above, I think I'm for the most part the kind of guy who does his best work through analyzing the work of others. I've pursued some town reads of mine relentlessly, but that's about the extent of relentlessness I've gone to in any of my 15 games, other than the IC thing which I think you mischaracterized. I don't know if you having a different view on my personality than I thought you would is really scummy, but everyone likes talking about themselves so I digress again. I guess it's slightly scummy, but I have the bias of always thinking "makes sense to me = town, doesn't make sense to me = scum" (which usually earns you a free town read), so I don't I'm wary. Seriously, do others think I'm the kind of guy who "takes his convictions and runs with them?" I thought I was always accused of being the exact opposite, too hedgy. And for what it's worth, I don't think being hedgy about "should we vote a lot or not in this new setup" is an alignment tell at all. I just typed out what I was mulling over in my head.

The only thing I gleam from robz an galz post is robz didn't suggest he stay alive, he suggested insom pick the person he trusted most. Seems like a really dumb scum slip but still get slight scum vibes because of that.
I think he just didn't think it through. Robz wouldn't be dumb enough to think no one would notice that, so he wouldn't have tried to force a bad plan like that through intentionally I don't think. I think it shows Robz was posting while distracted / not concentrating very hard, but I don't think that's an alignment tell in Robz's case.

I would like EVERYONE to comment on this post and how it reflects on Eevee.

It gives me a slightly scummy vibe, outside of Eevee's meta. It has the stink of IIoA.

But it could so very easily be town Eevee, I don't place much store.
I don't understand this post. Joth, can you explain how that was the scummy kind of IIoA?



Okay, that was everything. Going to sleeps now, waking up in seven hours. It's an international tournament week thing in Helsinki now, I'm not playing anything myself but all my friends are in town, so I'm don't know how much online time I'll be getting on any given day. For sure at the very minimum some posting when I wake up in 8 hours from this or so (then I'll also know more about my plans for the rest of the day, most plans should allow pretty stable mobile access at least), and this game will obviously be top priority for tomorrow. (Oh and I'll be around for like 30min-1h before falling asleep now, in case someone has follow up questions.) Side note, announcing your exact schedule like this is funny and weird. Feels like I do this in every Blitz game.
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ashersky

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Re: ZMX: Blitz Mafia X - The Veteran Games (Day 1)
« Reply #160 on: January 15, 2013, 12:36:52 am »

Vote Count 1.4:

Robz888 (0) -
Eevee (0) -
Galzria (0) -
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (0) -
Jimmmmm (0) -
TheMunch (0) -
Cuzz (0) -
mcmcsalot (0) -


With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 8:30 p.m. forum time.

Well, I was right about no RVS...

Remember, 28 hours total for D1.  8 hours are gone.
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Insomniac

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Re: ZMX: Blitz Mafia X - The Veteran Games (Day 1)
« Reply #161 on: January 15, 2013, 12:44:37 am »

Well, I was right about no RVS...

I'm not happy about it
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Robz888

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Re: ZMX: Blitz Mafia X - The Veteran Games (Day 1)
« Reply #162 on: January 15, 2013, 12:46:28 am »

The only thing I gleam from robz an galz post is robz didn't suggest he stay alive, he suggested insom pick the person he trusted most. Seems like a really dumb scum slip but still get slight scum vibes because of that.

Why would I suggest that Insomniac pick me? Insomniac would never trust that. He has no reason to. If I were scum, that plan would result in a scum win. I'm not scum, but Insomniac doesn't know that. And I don't expect him to have a townread on me after 5 freaking seconds of game play.

What I was suggesting that instead of trying to find 2 scum, Insomniac only needed to find 1 townie. Finding 1 townie is infinitely easier than finding 2 scum. And after he found his townie, he could have had that townie lynch everyone, get vengekilled, and Insomniac and town win.

Of course I would hope to demonstrate to Insomniac that I am town, but it doesn't really matter if he chooses me or one of the other like 5 or so town people. And the important thing is he had no reason to pick me at the time I suggested the plan, so it would have sounded ridiculous for me to propose myself.
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Eevee

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Re: ZMX: Blitz Mafia X - The Veteran Games (Day 1)
« Reply #163 on: January 15, 2013, 12:47:06 am »

The only thing I gleam from robz an galz post is robz didn't suggest he stay alive, he suggested insom pick the person he trusted most. Seems like a really dumb scum slip but still get slight scum vibes because of that.

Why would I suggest that Insomniac pick me? Insomniac would never trust that. He has no reason to. If I were scum, that plan would result in a scum win. I'm not scum, but Insomniac doesn't know that. And I don't expect him to have a townread on me after 5 freaking seconds of game play.

What I was suggesting that instead of trying to find 2 scum, Insomniac only needed to find 1 townie. Finding 1 townie is infinitely easier than finding 2 scum. And after he found his townie, he could have had that townie lynch everyone, get vengekilled, and Insomniac and town win.

Of course I would hope to demonstrate to Insomniac that I am town, but it doesn't really matter if he chooses me or one of the other like 5 or so town people. And the important thing is he had no reason to pick me at the time I suggested the plan, so it would have sounded ridiculous for me to propose myself.
Unless I'm mistaken, mcmc means you should have proposed Insomniac is the one to stay alive.
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Robz888

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Re: ZMX: Blitz Mafia X - The Veteran Games (Day 1)
« Reply #164 on: January 15, 2013, 12:48:38 am »

Er, yeah, I got confused, sorry. The initial plan I proposed was for the townie Insomniac picks to not do the killing. Obviously, that's strictly inferior to the version where the possible townie does the killing; if the possible townie does the killing, it doesn't matter if he is town or not.

When I proposed my plan, i simply hadn't thought of the "Insomniac doesn't do the kill" version.
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Eevee

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Re: ZMX: Blitz Mafia X - The Veteran Games (Day 1)
« Reply #165 on: January 15, 2013, 12:50:27 am »

I think he just didn't think it through. Robz is not dumb enough to think no one would notice that, so he wouldn't have tried to force a bad plan like that through intentionally I don't think. I think it shows Robz was posting while distracted / not concentrating very hard, but I don't think that's an alignment tell in Robz's case.
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Robz888

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Re: ZMX: Blitz Mafia X - The Veteran Games (Day 1)
« Reply #166 on: January 15, 2013, 12:55:36 am »

But I don't like that answer. I wasn't distracted. I was concentrating. I came up with a plan that is much better than trying to find scum. It just wasn't the optimal plan. In another minute, the optimal plan would have occurred to me. It just hadn't yet.
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Eevee

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Re: ZMX: Blitz Mafia X - The Veteran Games (Day 1)
« Reply #167 on: January 15, 2013, 12:58:02 am »

But I don't like that answer. I wasn't distracted. I was concentrating. I came up with a plan that is much better than trying to find scum. It just wasn't the optimal plan. In another minute, the optimal plan would have occurred to me. It just hadn't yet.
So, had you concentrated a little harder and not been too eager to post, you wouldn't have posted the "mistake". Maybe I'm wording it badly, but I'm trying to argue it's only a tell in showing you were willing to post things you hadn't thought through completely.
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Robz888

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Re: ZMX: Blitz Mafia X - The Veteran Games (Day 1)
« Reply #168 on: January 15, 2013, 01:07:23 am »

But it wasn't "wrong" of me to post that.
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Eevee

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Re: ZMX: Blitz Mafia X - The Veteran Games (Day 1)
« Reply #169 on: January 15, 2013, 01:12:53 am »

This is pointless, I'm probably just too tired to make any sense. I'm trying to say it's just this:
When I proposed my plan, i simply hadn't thought of the "Insomniac doesn't do the kill" version.
that isn't telling of your alignment at all.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: ZMX: Blitz Mafia X - The Veteran Games (Day 1)
« Reply #170 on: January 15, 2013, 01:19:14 am »

So I was mainly looking for a response from Robz. I still believe it was slightly scummy(ever so slightly) only because he didn't think of the same plan as me and I'm town therefor I feel hes not town. The response was meh, this is why I don't support this method of scumhunting if you are scum your smart enough to talk your way out of it, if not theres a reasonable explanation. I guess you reacted a bit more antsy then I expected though I think its just the way I hear it play out in my head. I have seen many people mention your authoritarian tone on this forum, something I don't get in the least. So null read based on your response. Unless others find your reaction scummy as I have said I think my read is biased.
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Robz888

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Re: ZMX: Blitz Mafia X - The Veteran Games (Day 1)
« Reply #171 on: January 15, 2013, 01:20:44 am »

Okay, I honestly don't understand.
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jotheonah

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Re: ZMX: Blitz Mafia X - The Veteran Games (Day 1)
« Reply #172 on: January 15, 2013, 06:46:20 am »

@Eevee. It's not a post I would have chosen to comment on if our IC hadn't requested it. But if I had to give a read on, it would be slight scum, because it feels sort of like posting just to up your post count. But so early in the game, that's not much of a tell.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: ZMX: Blitz Mafia X - The Veteran Games (Day 1)
« Reply #173 on: January 15, 2013, 08:35:21 am »

Okay, I honestly don't understand.

What don't you understand, as I said it was a slight scum tell because you didn't think of the same plan as me and I'm town so I assume you are not town. But honestly I was just looking at your response. Your response is clear enough but your confusion and refutal of eevee's post reads scummy to me.
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Re: ZMX: Blitz Mafia X - The Veteran Games (Day 1)
« Reply #174 on: January 15, 2013, 08:45:40 am »

12 hours to go. What shall we talk about?
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