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[Insomniac]

I'm aiming to start this on Feb 4 and can have 9 or more players, sign up below if interested. It will use a modified version of my setup from ZM11

1. Jimmmmm
2. Mcmcsalot - Died Night 2 - Fool
3. Shraeye
4. Eevee - Lynched Day 1 - Villager
5. EFHW - Lynched Day 3 - Villager
6. Robz888 - Lynched Day 2 - Witch
7. Spiritbears
8. Mail-Mi - Killed Night 3 - Fool
9. yuma - Killed Night 1 - Villager
10+?

Blitz Mafia Ruleset Changes in RED BECAUSE RED GOES FASTER
Game Rules:

General Gameplay and Etiquette:
1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind.  Paraphrasing (for role claims, etc.) is acceptable.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings unless your role PM specifically allows it.  Mafia members may communicate at night and during the confirmation stage.
3. If you have a role with a Night action your choices are due to me by the posted deadline (generally 12 HOUR DEADLINES from Night start).  If I do not receive your choice via PM by the posted deadline you will forfeit your actions.  In case of multiple submissions, the last valid one before the deadline will be used.
4. Roles with Night actions will not be able to submit an action on Night 0 (i.e. during the confirmation stage).
5. Any player with a Night action may instead submit a “No Action” PM to let the Mod know that you do not want to perform your expected action that Night phase.

Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:
1.Whomever has the most votes currently on them at lynch deadline is lynched
2. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate.  Further votes will also be ignored.
3. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until I post a death scene; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
4. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName.  Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax!  Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
5. Please submit vote revocations as either Unvote: PlayerName or Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
6. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
7. This game will have 24 HOUR deadlines.  If a player or No Lynch does not have a simple majority at deadline, the player with most votes currently on them will be lynched, and the game will go into night.
8. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent.
9. Do not edit or delete posts.  We don't want some players having more information than others.  If you want to clarify posts, feel free to double post.

Miscellaneous/Mechanics:
1. Bold, blue text is reserved for the Mod.  No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please PM the Mod privately.  Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mod may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently.  Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed.  These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mod so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players will be issued automatically after 72 hours of no activity or upon request after 48 hours of no activity.  A prodded player has 48 hours to respond or risks replacement.  A player who has been prodded 3 times is subject to replacement without further notice. - Rule Cut
6. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, up to and including a Modkill.
7. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread.  Treat this game as a commitment.  Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.[/s] - RULE CUT

The Golden Rule:

Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun! Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game.

Helpful Links:

• Main Wiki Page
  
  
• Newbie Guide
  
  
• Frequently Asked Questions
  
  
• Commonly Used Abbreviations
  
  
• Mafia Theory

Game Setup

TO CLARIFY, I AM NOT A MODERATOR OF F.DS IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM.  IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS GAME, I AM MODERATING THAT THE RULES ARE FOLLOWED AND HIDDEN ACTIONS ARE COMPLETED PROPERLY.

[Insomniac]

• Nightless
• Witches have Daychat
• There are 2 Witches
• There are also 2 fools
• Witches CAN discuss pregame what ability each of them takes
• In the event that 2 players are tied for the most votes at deadline, hidden democracy will be used.

You are a Witch!
Damned those cursed villagers! Each and every night they'd hold a party, and they bit their damn village above your lair. It was so hard to get a moments rest with the villagers partying. You and your witch friends needed a plan to silence them, to demand their respect. You were so tired you had started to feel ill all the time and your complexion had turned green! You remember a time when you had won a beauty pageant with nothing but compliments on your complexion. Now when ever someone saw you they shrieked and called you a Witch. Well this was to happen no more, you would regain your complexion and the village would pay. You abducted the children of the village to make a point but if they didn't treat you better well you just might eat the children.

Partner(s):
Team QT:

Powers:Before the game you may choose one of the following powers. (Note you and your partner CAN choose the same ability)
A) Suicidal - If someone shoots you, you will blow up, taking them with you.
B) Investigate Proof - Any attempt to investigate you will return village aligned.

Additionally during the day you and your teammate may make a bold command to "Nightkill" a player, at the day end the last noted nightkill is used and that player killed. If no nightkill has been stated during the day or "Nightkill: None" has been stated, no one will die.

Win Condition: You win when the Witches make up half the town or nothing can stop that from happening

Note please confirm receipt of this role along with your choice in your QT

You are a Fool!
When you were younger you happened into some money when your parents died and you've never had to work. Every morning you come up to the same hill because at the top is the only place near by that you can away from the incessant noise of the village, not to mention you can THINK. You like to contemplate life, love and the infinite you would call yourself a forward thinker while everyone else thinks you're a fool. On a good day if you close your eyes you feel as though you can see the world spinning round. Today the village came to you and asked you to help them, supposedly the hags that live below the village had abducted the children. Well you are nothing if not flexible and you would be damned if you were going to sit idly by.

Powers:Before the game you may choose one of the following powers
A) 1-Shot Day 2 Day-Cop - Once during day 2 you may pm the mod the name of a player to investigate, the mod will tell you if they are village or scum
B) 1-Shot Day 2 Vigilante - Once during day 2 you may pm the mod the name of a player to kill, that player will die.
C) 1-Shot Neighbourizer - You get daychat but will not be told the alignment of the person you neighbourize. Note: You may use this on any day.

Win Condition: You win when all threats to the village have been eliminated and at least one person aligned with the village is alive

Note please confirm receipt of this role along with your choice by PM

You are a Villager!
Every morning there are two fools from your village that go up to the top of a hill. You've never figured out why they do this but you've also never needed them more. Last night the Witches came into your town and abducted all of the children. It had been a long time since they attacked the village but you won't stand idly by as they steal your children.

Powers: None your weapon is your vote, use it wisely

Win Condition: You win when all threats to the village have been eliminated and at least one person aligned with the village is alive

Note please confirm receipt of this role by PM

[Eevee]

In

[Eevee]

In

Uhm need the exact starting time before I can commit actually, I'm flying to the U, S and A on the 5th.

[Insomniac]

In

Uhm need the exact starting time before I can commit actually, I'm flying to the U, S and A on the 5th.

8am PST (11am forum time)

[yuma]

/follow

[shraeye]

tag.  maybe.

[Insomniac]

Where are the everygamers! Robz/Eevee/Galz, and the lots of gamers Jimmm/mcmcsalot/joth/Munch/Ashersky!

[Dsell]

I might be up for ZM13. Unfortunately this next week is when a ton of stuff is happening, so no way I can commit to this one. But I need to do another Blitz game, I think it is becoming my preferred style.

[Jimmmmm]

I'm finding it really hard to be a solid contributor in Blitz games. I'll have to see how busy I am during the time that it's on.

[Dsell]

I'm finding it really hard to be a solid contributor in Blitz games.

I am finding just the opposite! Of course it also depends on how busy I am at the time.

[ashersky]

In depending of timing

[ashersky]

I might be up for ZM13. Unfortunately this next week is when a ton of stuff is happening, so no way I can commit to this one. But I need to do another Blitz game, I think it is becoming my preferred style.

I'm claiming ZMXV. 

[Jimmmmm]

I might be up for ZM13. Unfortunately this next week is when a ton of stuff is happening, so no way I can commit to this one. But I need to do another Blitz game, I think it is becoming my preferred style.

I'm claiming ZMXV.

You're talking about modding right? I think Dsell was just talking about playing.

[ashersky]

I might be up for ZM13. Unfortunately this next week is when a ton of stuff is happening, so no way I can commit to this one. But I need to do another Blitz game, I think it is becoming my preferred style.

I'm claiming ZMXV.

You're talking about modding right? I think Dsell was just talking about playing.

Right.  Just throwing it out there.  13 is for anyone.  I am working on fixing my set up for ZMXV.

[mcmcsalot]

Aww I'm not an every gamer, I'm only staying out of bastard games. I've been in every normal/blitz/rolemadness since I started.

That being said, /in

[Insomniac]

Bump

[Eevee]

Out, just won't have access when this would happen.

[Insomniac]

Out, just won't have access when this would happen.

As you can see it's not happening today it probably won't happen for a week or so tbh

[Jimmmmm]

I guess this isn't starting on Feb 4.

I'm currently at my game limit and will reassess whether I will play when the game is closer to being full.

[Eevee]

Oh, right. Well, I'll re-evaluate once I see what city I'll be in, etc. 

[ashersky]

Sorry, need to out for this due to upcoming V/LA.

[mcmcsalot]

And then there was one...

[Insomniac]

I don't get how Robz hasn't inned yet but I might cancel this unless we get a spur of interest.

[liopoil]

I might in if it ends up starting at a very convenient time, otherwise I won't ever have the time for blitz games.

[Jimmmmm]

Weird how little interest this game has gotten. /in

[Eevee]

I'd absolutely play if I knew I had consistent access.

[Archetype]

This set up is cool, but I just don't have the time to play it again.

[EFHW]

I'd like to /in - will depend on when it is.  Weekends are better.

[liopoil]

I might in if it ends up starting at a very convenient time, otherwise I won't ever have the time for blitz games.

what am I talking about, I can't keep up with 24 hour deadlines! /out

[shraeye]

resurrection!

also \in

[mcmcsalot]

resurrection!

also \in

Yayyyyy

[Insomniac]

I'd like to /in - will depend on when it is.  Weekends are better.

Normally starts on a Monday/Tuesday ie early week as the forums are more active during the week.

[Eevee]

I'd play, I guess I have enough access.

[sudgy]

I might be able to play this one if it starts spring break...  I don't usually like committing  to one of these because I basically have to promise I'll be on a lot every day (I can't always promise this), but I shouldn't have anything going on during spring break and might be able to...

[EFHW]

I'd like to /in - will depend on when it is.  Weekends are better.

Normally starts on a Monday/Tuesday ie early week as the forums are more active during the week.

I'll still /in, should be ok during the week too.

[Insomniac]

I might be able to play this one if it starts spring break...  I don't usually like committing  to one of these because I basically have to promise I'll be on a lot every day (I can't always promise this), but I shouldn't have anything going on during spring break and might be able to...

When is your spring break.


Currently without sudgy we are at 5 players, only need 4 more!

[Robz888]

/in

[sudgy]

I might be able to play this one if it starts spring break...  I don't usually like committing  to one of these because I basically have to promise I'll be on a lot every day (I can't always promise this), but I shouldn't have anything going on during spring break and might be able to...

When is your spring break.

It's from the 25th-29th.  Of course the weekends are already fine.

[Archetype]

I'd /in if this started around Spring Break (same as sudgy's).

[Insomniac]

bump.

If this starts next week we have 8 so I need at least one more for that to happen.

[ashersky]

I could play next week.

[sudgy]

Sorry, I am still going to be busy next week, so /out...

[Insomniac]

Sorry, I am still going to be busy next week, so /out...

This means we need one more, so bumpity bump bump

[Eevee]

Sorry, I am still going to be busy next week, so /out...

This means we need one more, so bumpity bump bump

[Eevee]

I wonder if the setup we all already know better would gather interest faster?

I dont mean that this isnt a good, but that one was more simple/straightforward and I liked it how it focused solely on player interactions.

[sudgy]

I'm not sure anymore what one would qualify as a "Newbie" as I have been in one game, or should I have to attend in more..?

If I am not longer considered to be so, then I would be willing to join in, if this game is no longer inactive and stopped dead in it's tracks..

Therefore, a hesitant
/in
I will check back to see if I cannot join in, for whatever reason it may be.

You don't need to have played a game to in to another game.

[sudgy]

I'm not sure anymore what one would qualify as a "Newbie" as I have been in one game, or should I have to attend in more..?

If I am not longer considered to be so, then I would be willing to join in, if this game is no longer inactive and stopped dead in it's tracks..

Therefore, a hesitant
/in
I will check back to see if I cannot join in, for whatever reason it may be.

You don't need to have played a game to in to another game.

BoxOfDOG decided to delete his post...  I'll keep this here though.  He didn't notice that this game is a blitz game.

[spiritbears]

If this game is still on, I'd join.
/in

[mail-mi]

Ya know what, to get this started, /in! I hope to have enough access!

[mcmcsalot]

Yaaay blitz!

[Insomniac]

Yaaay blitz!

sorry that puts us back to 8

[yuma]

I might be able to play. Can you provide details on when this would start?

This upcoming week is my last before I start a new job.

[Insomniac]

I might be able to play. Can you provide details on when this would start?

This upcoming week is my last before I start a new job.

Assuming everyone who's in'd is still in, we could start on Monday. Thus finishing before the next week is up.

[yuma]

sounds good to me. I can't guarantee I will always be online... when I am at work, I can't access this site unless I go to a very specific area that I am not supposed to be very often that has wifi so I can use my itouch...

[Eevee]

I'm going to be in Berlin then. I can't guarantee I'll have reliable internet access there, but I would assume I will.

[shraeye]

Next time you're in Berlin on the first Saturday of a month, check out a party called Wild Wedding.

[Eevee]

Next time you're in Berlin on the first Saturday of a month, check out a party called Wild Wedding.

Okay, thanks. Might even happen, my dad lives there at the moment.

[yuma]

So what is the status of this game?

[Insomniac]

Im starting this now, had an unexpectedly busy morning. PM's going out, once all confirmed will start.

[Eevee]

confirm

[mail-mi]

HAHA so excited for my first blitz game!

[mcmcsalot]

Confirmed but tomorrow is my 21st birthday and I have a job interview so don't expect too much. I mean my v/la is always pretty silly, I love this game waay to much and am sure I will at least follow via mobile.

[Insomniac]

Seeing my brother jump off of the cliff had made me lose my mind. In the months that followed I destroyed my house on the hill. I had longed for the village to feel the same suffering that I had felt that dreadful day, so I searched high and low for 2 more witches. When I had found them I brought them back to the town I had originally sought to protect, only this time I gave them bombs.

There are once more 2 of my type out there but these ones are not related to me so I long to see them suffer like I had months ago

Day 1 Start

Vote Count 1-0
Not Voting (9) - Jimmmm, mcmcsalot, shraeye, Eevee, EFHW, Robz888, spiritbears, mail-mi, yuma

Deadline: April 24 8:00am PDT, 11AM forum time (EDT)

[Jimmmmm]

Hey look we've started!

[Jimmmmm]

yuma hasn't been scummy so Vote: yuma.

[EFHW]

I don't want to RVS, but if I was RVS'ing I'd vote for mcmc because that's what I always do.  I hope we're on the same team this time, for once!

[Jimmmmm]

Any suggestions for getting us out of RVS?

[EFHW]

Well, I figured talking anyway even if I'm not voting would help.  I don't like RVS because it seems like even if your vote was a joke, down the line someone will say "You voted for yuma, and he was the IC so you are scum". 

[shraeye]

Well, I figured talking anyway even if I'm not voting would help.  I don't like RVS because it seems like even if your vote was a joke, down the line someone will say "You voted for yuma, and he was the IC so you are scum".

Are you saying that that line of reasoning is ineffectual?  Have you ever seen it in action?

[EFHW]

Well, I figured talking anyway even if I'm not voting would help.  I don't like RVS because it seems like even if your vote was a joke, down the line someone will say "You voted for yuma, and he was the IC so you are scum".

Are you saying that that line of reasoning is ineffectual?  Have you ever seen it in action?

It seemed to happen a lot in my first game.  It was a newbie game, so maybe that's why.  But, yeah it is an effective means of misleading people, and I don't want people misled about me.

[Jimmmmm]

But that's the whole point of RVS. If yuma's Town and someone comes along arguing that I must be scum because I voted for a Townie, then maybe we can deduce something from that. Okay, so there's obviously not a lot to go on so far, but how RVS seems to work is one minute you're RVSing and the next someone has a real case, or someone thinks someone else is making a real case, and they make a real counter-argument and suddenly the game is underway.

For example, I think trying to avoid RVS and not giving anything to talk about instead is scummy, so Vote: EFHW.

[shraeye]

Well, I figured talking anyway even if I'm not voting would help.  I don't like RVS because it seems like even if your vote was a joke, down the line someone will say "You voted for yuma, and he was the IC so you are scum".

Are you saying that that line of reasoning is ineffectual?  Have you ever seen it in action?

It seemed to happen a lot in my first game.  It was a newbie game, so maybe that's why.  But, yeah it is an effective means of misleading people, and I don't want people misled about me.

Let's keep going down this rabbit hole; which players accused whom?  Did the accusers turn out to be town or scum?  Did the accused turn out to be town or scum?

[mcmcsalot]

Well, I figured talking anyway even if I'm not voting would help.  I don't like RVS because it seems like even if your vote was a joke, down the line someone will say "You voted for yuma, and he was the IC so you are scum".

Are you saying that that line of reasoning is ineffectual?  Have you ever seen it in action?

It seemed to happen a lot in my first game.  It was a newbie game, so maybe that's why.  But, yeah it is an effective means of misleading people, and I don't want people misled about me.

Poe: I agree with Jimm.

I have never seen paranoid efhw before, nor have I seen scum!efhw
vote:efhw

[spiritbears]

Well, I figured talking anyway even if I'm not voting would help.  I don't like RVS because it seems like even if your vote was a joke, down the line someone will say "You voted for yuma, and he was the IC so you are scum".

Are you saying that that line of reasoning is ineffectual?  Have you ever seen it in action?

It seemed to happen a lot in my first game.  It was a newbie game, so maybe that's why.  But, yeah it is an effective means of misleading people, and I don't want people misled about me.

Poe: I agree with Jimm.

I have never seen paranoid efhw before, nor have I seen scum!efhw
vote:efhw

I don't know jimm or efhw or anything about thier meta, but this seems like a reasonable deduction and I'm inclined to go along MC on this:
vote:efhw

[shraeye]

I don't know jimm or efhw or anything about thier meta, but this seems like a reasonable deduction and I'm inclined to go along MC on this:
vote:efhw

I would like to know why you said "go along with MC on this."  When jimmm was the one who made the argument initially.  So, what gives?

[spiritbears]

Well I was referring to this line from MC:

I have never seen paranoid efhw before, nor have I seen scum!efhw
vote:efhw"

[yuma]

Well, I figured talking anyway even if I'm not voting would help.  I don't like RVS because it seems like even if your vote was a joke, down the line someone will say "You voted for yuma, and he was the IC so you are scum".

Are you saying that that line of reasoning is ineffectual?  Have you ever seen it in action?

It seemed to happen a lot in my first game.  It was a newbie game, so maybe that's why.  But, yeah it is an effective means of misleading people, and I don't want people misled about me.

Poe: I agree with Jimm.

I have never seen paranoid efhw before, nor have I seen scum!efhw
vote:efhw

You have too seen EFHW as scum. We were partners in M&M. EFHW was not paranoid in that game as scum... so I think your point here is null.

[mcmcsalot]

Jimm's reasoning was efhw was trying to avoid rvs content and fly under the radar. He believes this to be scummy behavior.
My reasoning was efhw seems paranoid and doesn't want to be suspected as scum, I have never seen her this way and I think it is because she is scum.

Spirit agreed with my reasoning, spirit do you agree with Jimm's reasoning as well?(respond to his post directly please)

[mcmcsalot]

Well, I figured talking anyway even if I'm not voting would help.  I don't like RVS because it seems like even if your vote was a joke, down the line someone will say "You voted for yuma, and he was the IC so you are scum".

Are you saying that that line of reasoning is ineffectual?  Have you ever seen it in action?

It seemed to happen a lot in my first game.  It was a newbie game, so maybe that's why.  But, yeah it is an effective means of misleading people, and I don't want people misled about me.

Poe: I agree with Jimm.

I have never seen paranoid efhw before, nor have I seen scum!efhw
vote:efhw

You have too seen EFHW as scum. We were partners in M&M. EFHW was not paranoid in that game as scum... so I think your point here is null.

I shall review and respond momentarily

[yuma]

What I do find suspicious is this:

This'll be my only post of the day. Techno-free Tuesday!

When mail-mi in the last couple of weeks has been very willing to post on Tuesdays.

Ya know what, to get this started, /in! I hope to have enough access!

Although there was nothing there on the 9th

I think this will be my last RMM game, way too swingy, and hidden things like the symmetry of this game don't seem to be taken into consideration, it made setup speculation hugely way too advantageous for my liking and the fakeclaims actually detrimental.

Don't complain cuz ur team lost, Axxle! This was fun!

I'll try 

So, where's kooshie Yuma and drab?

I mean, sure techno-free Tuesday. That is cool and maybe it is a valid reason for why he won't be posting today. But it seems kinda convenient excuse for lurking throughout day1 of a blitz game and is unlikely to be lynched for it since it has been posted in the VLA thread. I won't vote on it now, but it certainly made me raise my eyebrows.

[mcmcsalot]

Okay well your right on efhw she handled rvs very well in that game. If you were not her scum partner(in m&m) I would find you suspicious for defending her. Though that taken into account with the fact that witches have day chat I would make the guess that the two of you are not a scum team.

That being said the fact that she did not defend herself reads scummy to me so my vote will stay(shes still scummiest for now) but I agree the case is much weaker than before.

[mcmcsalot]

Yuma do you think mail-mi is the type of person that would attempt to dodge d1 that way?
I know regardless of my alignment I'm going to be dying once I have to stop posting.

However I would think if he hasn't done techno-free Tuesday in the past today is a strange day to start.

[Robz888]

Okay, one of these games.

Vote: mail-mi

Obvious scum play is obvious.

[mcmcsalot]

I don't want to RVS, but if I was RVS'ing I'd vote for mcmc because that's what I always do.  I hope we're on the same team this time, for once!

Hey robz what do you think of this post?

[shraeye]

That being said the fact that she did not defend herself reads scummy to me

What? As in, the fact that EFHW didn't defend herself sometime between 11:50 when the accusation was made, and 1250 when you made this post.

that is ridiculous.

[Robz888]

I don't want to RVS, but if I was RVS'ing I'd vote for mcmc because that's what I always do.  I hope we're on the same team this time, for once!

Hey robz what do you think of this post?

I think its fine. Doesn't mean much to me.

The kind of schedule lurking that mail-mi is doing, though, is exactly the sort of thing scum is willing to do in these games. Especially since we started using the Online Users button to pinpoint scum who were following the thread but not posting.

[mcmcsalot]

I don't want to RVS, but if I was RVS'ing I'd vote for mcmc because that's what I always do.  I hope we're on the same team this time, for once!

Also aside from my incorrect paranoid!efhw = scum!efhw
And Jimm's avoiding rvs is scummy.

Analyzing that a bit more I'm not sure efhw "always rvs votes me"
In MXIX She rvs voted mail-mi and then omgused Jimm. All 3 were town
In MXX She rvs votes nobody, she was scum
In BMX She replaced in so no rvs.

Based on this avoiding rvs voting is scummy behavior of efhw also she has never rvs voted me, making up a reason to vote for someone(even without voting) is very scummy.

[mcmcsalot]

That being said the fact that she did not defend herself reads scummy to me

What? As in, the fact that EFHW didn't defend herself sometime between 11:50 when the accusation was made, and 1250 when you made this post.

that is ridiculous.

I don't find it that ridiculous it's blitz mafia and she has 3 votes on her, it only takes 5 to lynch.

[mcmcsalot]

I don't want to RVS, but if I was RVS'ing I'd vote for mcmc because that's what I always do.  I hope we're on the same team this time, for once!

Hey robz what do you think of this post?

I think its fine. Doesn't mean much to me.

The kind of schedule lurking that mail-mi is doing, though, is exactly the sort of thing scum is willing to do in these games. Especially since we started using the Online Users button to pinpoint scum who were following the thread but not posting.

I'm inclined to agree with your mail-mi comments. The fact that he explained nothing about it is scummy. However this is the same person who self hammered as town, mail-mi's carelessness should be taken into account.

[Eevee]

Hi guys!

Town read on mcmc for sure.

[Eevee]

i don't think the thing about mail-mi is scummy at allll.

before reading further and seeing the plethora of votes on EHFW, I was about to point about how being worried about how you are perceived is a scum trait.

[mcmcsalot]

Okay well I'm out here for awhile, I know you disagree Yuma but I'm leaving my vote on my scum read.

Scum: efhw
Slight scum: shraeye
Null: eevee, mail-mi
Slight town: robz
Town: Yuma, Jimm

Shraeye and robz are hit reads off minimal contributions very likely to change the others are developed from some decent interactions and research.

[shraeye]

Shraeye and robz are hit reads off minimal contributions

Seems as how you're already engaging with me and answering my posts elsewhere, this is silliness.

Additionally, your analysis that EFHW "lied" about always RVSing you is pointless.  If it is unusual and therefore a scum-trait, what does that say about you?  If EFHW really were trying to "make up a reason", why make it up in regards to mcmcsalot?

Analyzing that a bit more I'm not sure efhw "always rvs votes me"
In MXIX She rvs voted mail-mi and then omgused Jimm. All 3 were town
In MXX She rvs votes nobody, she was scum
In BMX She replaced in so no rvs.

Based on this avoiding rvs voting is scummy behavior of efhw also she has never rvs voted me, making up a reason to vote for someone(even without voting) is very scummy.
[/quote]

This feels a whole lot like trying to pin somebody as scummy just because they said something unusual.  Nothing EFHW has done yet has stuck me as odd, but you seem to be trying awful hard to build theories to fit your suspicions instead of working the other way around.

[yuma]

Yuma do you think mail-mi is the type of person that would attempt to dodge d1 that way?
I know regardless of my alignment I'm going to be dying once I have to stop posting.

However I would think if he hasn't done techno-free Tuesday in the past today is a strange day to start.

I don't know. I think it is very possible.

I have used similar tactics in the past as scum before. If you want to look at a really bad example from me... I used my grandmother's funeral as an excuse to stay away from the thread as scum. That is pretty low. (I didn't lie about my grandmother's funeral, but over those few days I did have opportunities to get online, and would have if I were town, but because of my VLA I decided to stay out of sight/out of mind) And it worked!

[shraeye]

Repost to fix quoting issues.

Shraeye and robz are hit reads off minimal contributions

Seems as how you're already engaging with me and answering my posts elsewhere, this is silliness.

Additionally, your analysis that EFHW "lied" about always RVSing you is pointless.  If it is unusual and therefore a scum-trait, what does that say about you?  If EFHW really were trying to "make up a reason", why make it up in regards to mcmcsalot?

Analyzing that a bit more I'm not sure efhw "always rvs votes me"
In MXIX She rvs voted mail-mi and then omgused Jimm. All 3 were town
In MXX She rvs votes nobody, she was scum
In BMX She replaced in so no rvs.

Based on this avoiding rvs voting is scummy behavior of efhw also she has never rvs voted me, making up a reason to vote for someone(even without voting) is very scummy.

This feels a whole lot like trying to pin somebody as scummy just because they said something unusual.  Nothing EFHW has done yet has stuck me as odd, but you seem to be trying awful hard to build theories to fit your suspicions instead of working the other way around.

[yuma]

That being said the fact that she did not defend herself reads scummy to me

What? As in, the fact that EFHW didn't defend herself sometime between 11:50 when the accusation was made, and 1250 when you made this post.

that is ridiculous.

I agree this is ridiculous. This is blitz, but we aren't expected.. and certainly won't be glued to our computers for the whole of it. I know I won't be, and I know you won't be.

Hey guys, let's get three votes on mcmc now that he is leaving! We can wait an hour and once he doesn't respond to our case we can say "THAT IS SO SCUMMY!!!!"

vote: mcmc

[yuma]

i don't think the thing about mail-mi is scummy at allll.

before reading further and seeing the plethora of votes on EHFW, I was about to point about how being worried about how you are perceived is a scum trait.

I actually feel like this is false... or rather this is an argument that I use when I am scum trying to get someone mislynched. As town I am very, very aware of how I am perceived because I don't want to be a mislynch and cause harm to town. I am more likely to do crazier things, say what I think and be a little less careful. But I am worried about how others perceive me as town.

PS: Who is this in response to? I am not sure who is worried about how they look in the context of your post...

[yuma]

Scum: efhw
Slight scum: shraeye
Null: eevee, mail-mi
Slight town: robz
Town: Yuma, Jimm

no spiritbears.

[Eevee]

EHFW was, in my opinion, in his RVS-ponderings.

I guess we are different. For me it's certainly helluvalot more pressure to play scum, as town I feel I can just respond to whatever case is thrown at me ans hopefully make enough sense for smart people to see whats what.

[mcmcsalot]

Scum: efhw
Slight scum: shraeye
Null: eevee, mail-mi
Slight town: robz, spiritbears
Town: Yuma, Jimm

Repost to fix quoting issues.

Shraeye and robz are hit reads off minimal contributions

Seems as how you're already engaging with me and answering my posts elsewhere, this is silliness.

Additionally, your analysis that EFHW "lied" about always RVSing you is pointless.  If it is unusual and therefore a scum-trait, what does that say about you?  If EFHW really were trying to "make up a reason", why make it up in regards to mcmcsalot?

Analyzing that a bit more I'm not sure efhw "always rvs votes me"
In MXIX She rvs voted mail-mi and then omgused Jimm. All 3 were town
In MXX She rvs votes nobody, she was scum
In BMX She replaced in so no rvs.

Based on this avoiding rvs voting is scummy behavior of efhw also she has never rvs voted me, making up a reason to vote for someone(even without voting) is very scummy.

This feels a whole lot like trying to pin somebody as scummy just because they said something unusual.  Nothing EFHW has done yet has stuck me as odd, but you seem to be trying awful hard to build theories to fit your suspicions instead of working the other way around.

I'm just trying to analyze as much as I can before I am gone, is lots of it weak and flawed yes, will I push for an efhw lynch when I get back from v/la maybe, will my reads have changed completely possibly, I see how it looks like I am tunneling and trying to make efhw look crazy scummy, that is simply because we had very little to go off of and I was analyzing something I saw the ability to early on.

If you don't find it scummy that efhw hasn't responded to the case on her because its been such a short period of time, why do you think the person who is making a weak case hours into day 1 is scummy?

lastly your position is based on more than robz, its still weaker than others. Spirit is now in that category.

[Robz888]

i don't think the thing about mail-mi is scummy at allll.

Why not? Gotta bail out your scumbuddy?

[EFHW]

Well, I figured talking anyway even if I'm not voting would help.  I don't like RVS because it seems like even if your vote was a joke, down the line someone will say "You voted for yuma, and he was the IC so you are scum".

Are you saying that that line of reasoning is ineffectual?  Have you ever seen it in action?

It seemed to happen a lot in my first game.  It was a newbie game, so maybe that's why.  But, yeah it is an effective means of misleading people, and I don't want people misled about me.

Let's keep going down this rabbit hole; which players accused whom?  Did the accusers turn out to be town or scum?  Did the accused turn out to be town or scum?

The accused was town, the accuser was scum.  This was the Liopoil/mcmc scum team, and Liopoil distorting Kooshie.  I've seen other, more subtle things, too.  But really, guys it was a joke about mcmc.  So the irony is rich, it's come back to bite me anyway!  I'm not caught up, so this is only a response to Shraeye's question, I'll respond to the other comments as I read.

[Eevee]

i don't think the thing about mail-mi is scummy at allll.

Why not? Gotta bail out your scumbuddy?

I dont think inventing a VLA to bail out from posting is a likely scum strategy for mailmi or anyone really. Not a town tell either, just null.

[EFHW]

Well, I figured talking anyway even if I'm not voting would help.  I don't like RVS because it seems like even if your vote was a joke, down the line someone will say "You voted for yuma, and he was the IC so you are scum".

Are you saying that that line of reasoning is ineffectual?  Have you ever seen it in action?

It seemed to happen a lot in my first game.  It was a newbie game, so maybe that's why.  But, yeah it is an effective means of misleading people, and I don't want people misled about me.

Poe: I agree with Jimm.

I have never seen paranoid efhw before, nor have I seen scum!efhw
vote:efhw

you've seen scum!efhw in masons and monks.  you said I was being too "nice" if I remember.

[Robz888]

i don't think the thing about mail-mi is scummy at allll.

Why not? Gotta bail out your scumbuddy?

I dont think inventing a VLA to bail out from posting is a likely scum strategy for mailmi or anyone really. Not a town tell either, just null.

You're wrong. It is obviously a scum strategy, we've seen it in practice as a scum strategy, and more specifically it fits mail-mi, who is clumsy as scum. So you're just super wrong. But are you scum trying to buddy a townie, or are you sticking your neck out for scumpartner?

[shraeye]

The accused was town, the accuser was scum.  This was the Liopoil/mcmc scum team, and Liopoil distorting Kooshie.  I've seen other, more subtle things, too.  But really, guys it was a joke about mcmc.  So the irony is rich, it's come back to bite me anyway!  I'm not caught up, so this is only a response to Shraeye's question, I'll respond to the other comments as I read.

This is what I suspected; I just wanted to hear how you thought about it.  Thanks for the answer.

[EFHW]

The comment wasn't about RVS'ing mcmc, which I haven't done. It was about how mcmc and I always end up on opposite teams (in the 3 games I've been in so far).   I guess this is 4.  Eevee would be next on my scum suspicions list.  No particular read otherwise, except maybe Jimmmmm for starting this whole silly mess.

I'm going to vote mcmc, but before I do, what L is he at?

[EFHW]

i don't think the thing about mail-mi is scummy at allll.

Why not? Gotta bail out your scumbuddy?

I dont think inventing a VLA to bail out from posting is a likely scum strategy for mailmi or anyone really. Not a town tell either, just null.

You're wrong. It is obviously a scum strategy, we've seen it in practice as a scum strategy, and more specifically it fits mail-mi, who is clumsy as scum. So you're just super wrong. But are you scum trying to buddy a townie, or are you sticking your neck out for scumpartner?

It does seem a bit glib on his part.  But mail-mi can be clumsy as town, too.  And what's the fun of missing a whole day of a blitz game, even as scum? 

[Eevee]

Have seen people faking "tech free tuesdays" to avoid entire day 1s?

Idk, to me winning like that would feel like I cheated. Its possible mailmi's tech free day overlapped with him drawing scum, obviously. I don't think he decided to pull off something like that just to survive day 1, no.

[Eevee]

Why me?

[shraeye]

I say mail-mi gets a tech-free Tuesday pass.  If he's as clumsy as you claim he is, Robz, then we should be able to catch him easily on subsequent days.

[Robz888]

Have seen people faking "tech free tuesdays" to avoid entire day 1s?

Idk, to me winning like that would feel like I cheated. Its possible mailmi's tech free day overlapped with him drawing scum, obviously. I don't think he decided to pull off something like that just to survive day 1, no.

To me, winning like that would feel like I won. This would just be an expansion of scum play we have seen a dozen times already.

[Robz888]

I say mail-mi gets a tech-free Tuesday pass.  If he's as clumsy as you claim he is, Robz, then we should be able to catch him easily on subsequent days.

K, next time I am scum, I will tell my partner to preemptively vanish for Day 1, and then I will say "he gets a free pass!" and no one better stop me.

[shraeye]

But if your partner next time is somebody like yuma who is very sneaky, I would not be giving the same pass.  You gotta consider context.

[EFHW]

Why me?

I was just getting to that.

before reading further and seeing the plethora of votes on EHFW, I was about to point about how being worried about how you are perceived is a scum trait.

Hi guys!

Town read on mcmc for sure.

Now I predict you will say that defensiveness is a scum trait, and it can be.  Your emphasis of your point as coming to you even before you saw the votes and your town read of mcmc are what stand out to me.  Mcmc has been much more towny than this and been scum! 

[Eevee]

So Robz is sure mail-mi is scum?

Not sure what else would explain the tone.

[EFHW]

Vote Count Please

[Robz888]

But if your partner next time is somebody like yuma who is very sneaky, I would not be giving the same pass.  You gotta consider context.

Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong I think yuma is LESS likely to try that, because yuma can play a good scum game from the driver's seat. Mail-mi, maybe he can't, or doesn't think he can.

[Robz888]

So Robz is sure mail-mi is scum?

Not sure what else would explain the tone.

I'm more sure you are scum, covering and apologizing for scum or scummy play.

[shraeye]

So Robz is sure mail-mi is scum?

Not sure what else would explain the tone.

I'm more sure you are scum, covering and apologizing for scum or scummy play.

but you're upset that people are trying to give mail-mi a pass.

So if you think just eevee is scummy because of it, then there shouldn't be a problem with giving mail-mi a pass.  Eevee being scummy for defending mail-mi is a different argument than "mail-mi doesn't deserve a pass because it's silly to let scum fake their way through zero contribution"

You're making one argument and drawing a different conclusion.  Or possibly doing them both at the same time and I'm just confused.

[yuma]

I say mail-mi gets a tech-free Tuesday pass.  If he's as clumsy as you claim he is, Robz, then we should be able to catch him easily on subsequent days.

K, next time I am scum, I will tell my partner to preemptively vanish for Day 1, and then I will say "he gets a free pass!" and no one better stop me.

haven't you already tried a version of that when you were scum with Galz and he disappeared and you ran a buss on him?

[Robz888]

I say mail-mi gets a tech-free Tuesday pass.  If he's as clumsy as you claim he is, Robz, then we should be able to catch him easily on subsequent days.

K, next time I am scum, I will tell my partner to preemptively vanish for Day 1, and then I will say "he gets a free pass!" and no one better stop me.

haven't you already tried a version of that when you were scum with Galz and he disappeared and you ran a buss on him?

Yeah, except we were reversed. He told me to disappear, and then that got noticed, and he had to bus me, and we lost.

[Eevee]

So Robz is sure mail-mi is scum?

Not sure what else would explain the tone.

I'm more sure you are scum, covering and apologizing for scum or scummy play.

I don't really believe in faking irl stuff to do well in this game.

Mostly wouldnt want people questioning me or someone else posting "my baby daughter raped and murdered, VLA" as a "scummy action".

I don't think anyone here fakes irl emergencies to avoid posting, benefit of the doubt.

i wouldn't expect mailmi to cancel his previously planned thing just because he drew scum though.2

[Robz888]

So Robz is sure mail-mi is scum?

Not sure what else would explain the tone.

I'm more sure you are scum, covering and apologizing for scum or scummy play.

but you're upset that people are trying to give mail-mi a pass.

So if you think just eevee is scummy because of it, then there shouldn't be a problem with giving mail-mi a pass.  Eevee being scummy for defending mail-mi is a different argument than "mail-mi doesn't deserve a pass because it's silly to let scum fake their way through zero contribution"

You're making one argument and drawing a different conclusion.  Or possibly doing them both at the same time and I'm just confused.

I don't get what you're saying at all but what Im saying is not complicated and if you don't understand it that's weird.

[yuma]

I say mail-mi gets a tech-free Tuesday pass.  If he's as clumsy as you claim he is, Robz, then we should be able to catch him easily on subsequent days.

K, next time I am scum, I will tell my partner to preemptively vanish for Day 1, and then I will say "he gets a free pass!" and no one better stop me.

haven't you already tried a version of that when you were scum with Galz and he disappeared and you ran a buss on him?

Yeah, except we were reversed. He told me to disappear, and then that got noticed, and he had to bus me, and we lost.

bummer...

[yuma]

So Robz is sure mail-mi is scum?

Not sure what else would explain the tone.

I'm more sure you are scum, covering and apologizing for scum or scummy play.

I don't really believe in faking irl stuff to do well in this game.

Mostly wouldnt want people questioning me or someone else posting "my baby daughter raped and murdered, VLA" as a "scummy action".

I don't think anyone here fakes irl emergencies to avoid posting, benefit of the doubt.

i wouldn't expect mailmi to cancel his previously planned thing just because he drew scum though.2

I agree, which is why I didn't put a vote on him. I think a benefit of doubt needs to be given, but it did raise a red flag and as such mail-mi will be under heavy scrutiny from me when he returns, but this conversation has been good, it has given us a lot to analyze thus far.

[EFHW]

@Eevee, that was a really disturbing image, can we keep it lighter please? 

@everyone, mail-mi wouldn't even have been sure the game was starting today.  We were waiting for confirms, which were done by PM.  He posted at 9:30 and the game didn't start until almost 11.

[Insomniac]

Vote Count 1-1
EFHW (3) - Jimmmm, mcmcsalot, spiritbears
mail-mi (1) - Robz888
mcmcsalot (1) - yuma
Not Voting (9) - shraeye, Eevee, EFHW, mail-mi

Deadline: April 24 8:00am PDT, 11AM forum time (EDT)

[yuma]

@everyone, mail-mi wouldn't even have been sure the game was starting today.  We were waiting for confirms, which were done by PM.  He posted at 9:30 and the game didn't start until almost 11.

this is a good point, but not a full point. I feel like often scum have a better grasp of when the game/day is going to start because of their quicktopic. I know many mods will post in the quicktopic and say, "you have X hours until I open the game, finish up your discussion before then."

[shraeye]

I don't get what you're saying at all but what Im saying is not complicated and if you don't understand it that's weird.

I am saying that you seem to be irked that I am willing to give mail-mi a complete pass for his tech-free tuesday.  That is my interpretation of your sarcastic "plan for next scumgame" response.

Eevee also implied that mail-mi wasn't scum for his situation.  You have directly called eevee scummy for his stance.

Suppose for a moment that you're spot-on about Eevee.  Is mail-mi his partner?  Only if you think this is true, should you be upset at giving mail-mi a pass.  After all, if mail-mi is town, then whether it was reasonable or not, anything that gets us to not consider him helps town win.  And as you said, all one should care about is winning. (and feelings)

So it seems to me like your arguments are only cohesive when Eevee/mailmi is the scumteam.  Yet you haven't said that.


Also,
vote: Robz

[Eevee]

I thibk it's weird you seem to want to antagonize me over a simple disagreement in reading someone like this.

[Robz888]

I don't get what you're saying at all but what Im saying is not complicated and if you don't understand it that's weird.

I am saying that you seem to be irked that I am willing to give mail-mi a complete pass for his tech-free tuesday.  That is my interpretation of your sarcastic "plan for next scumgame" response.

Eevee also implied that mail-mi wasn't scum for his situation.  You have directly called eevee scummy for his stance.

Suppose for a moment that you're spot-on about Eevee.  Is mail-mi his partner?  Only if you think this is true, should you be upset at giving mail-mi a pass.  After all, if mail-mi is town, then whether it was reasonable or not, anything that gets us to not consider him helps town win.  And as you said, all one should care about is winning. (and feelings)

So it seems to me like your arguments are only cohesive when Eevee/mailmi is the scumteam.  Yet you haven't said that.


Also,
vote: Robz

I have said that:

So Robz is sure mail-mi is scum?

Not sure what else would explain the tone.

I'm more sure you are scum, covering and apologizing for scum or scummy play.

[Robz888]

Shraeye, my original claim was that Eevee was covering for her scumbuddy. Are you not reading?

[Robz888]

Shraeye, my original claim was that Eevee was covering for her scumbuddy. Are you not reading?

his*

[Eevee]

If me being scum is dependant on mail-mi being scum, shouldnt you be more sure of him being scum then?

[Robz888]

If me being scum is dependant on mail-mi being scum, shouldnt you be more sure of him being scum then?

Is no one actually reading my posts?

So Robz is sure mail-mi is scum?

Not sure what else would explain the tone.

I'm more sure you are scum, covering and apologizing for scum or scummy play.

[Robz888]

Mailmi: Scum or at the very least super scummy

Shraeye and Eevee: Legitimately wrong on point of fact, covering for scummy player, militantly covering for scummy player. Why?

So now I think moreso one of you two are scum.

[Robz888]

Mailmi: Scum or at the very least super scummy

Shraeye and Eevee: Legitimately wrong on point of fact, covering for scummy player, militantly covering for scummy player. Why?

So now I think moreso one of you two are scum.

But this was 100% crystal clear based on what I had already said. Your confusion makes no sense. I think you're trying to trip me up because you know I'm right.

[shraeye]

But are you scum trying to buddy a townie, or are you sticking your neck out for scumpartner?

This is what I read when I was thinking of your uncertainty on mail-mi, compared to what seemed like certainty regarding Eevee.

Do you really think I'm being militant?

[Eevee]

I guess we have to agree to disagree about scumminess of going to VLA.

Robz being this gung-ho is confusing. Its weird my read on him is still pretty null.

[Robz888]

But are you scum trying to buddy a townie, or are you sticking your neck out for scumpartner?

This is what I read when I was thinking of your uncertainty on mail-mi, compared to what seemed like certainty regarding Eevee.

Do you really think I'm being militant?

Yes.

Again, what I said was both objectively correct and crystal clear. That it gave you and Eevee so much grief is hugely scummy to me.

[Robz888]

I guess we have to agree to disagree about scumminess of going to VLA.

Okay, but you're just so obviously wrong.

Robz being this gung-ho is confusing. Its weird my read on him is still pretty null.

Null read on me = you are scum and you are thrown off and you are unsure how to spin this.

Vote: Eevee

[Eevee]

Robz has found all three scum!

[Robz888]

Robz has found all three scum!

Yes, trying mocking me, see if that works.

[Eevee]

At the beginning of blitz, it was another Insomniac-run game. Due to the nature of the format, I was worried people might start faking irl reasons as scum or that awkward situations might arise if people start questioning legitimitate irl claims. Ins responded "I don't think that's going to be an issue, we have a pretty cool group of people here."

Robz, I'm not saying I'm definitely right, it's just my impression and I'm by no means any more of an expert on mailmi than you are. But I don't think I'm so obviously mistaken as you make it seem either. Shraeye and yuma, both of whom I value quite highly, seem to agree with me.

[shraeye]

Again, what I said was both objectively correct and crystal clear. That it gave you and Eevee so much grief is hugely scummy to me.

Robz, you'll have to admit that it's not 100% crystal clear.  Your end conclusion is that mailmi is scummy, and that me/eevee are both being odd.

But along the way, you said that eevee was scummy and wondered aloud if mailmi was his partner, or innocent towny; this feeling conflicts with your conclusion.

You also made a post stating that you were more certain that eevee was scum.

So Robz is sure mail-mi is scum?

Not sure what else would explain the tone.

I'm more sure you are scum, covering and apologizing for scum or scummy play.

It's reasonable to say that you were going through a thought-process and posting along the way, but that is the reason for my confusion.  And my rejection of your statement that your ideas were 100% crystal clear.

[yuma]

I think I see it a bit more scummy than you do. You initially said that you don't find it scummy at all.

Whereas I find it scummy. I do. It was very convenient timing and had no precedent before it.

HOWEVER: I do think we need to give mail-mi the benefit of a doubt... if nothing else if we lynch him w/o giving him the chance to claim we could easily screw the pooch... But once he is back he will start out at a scummier level than someone else who had announced VLA 2-3 days ago for a vacation or busy work schedule or something like that...

See the difference? So I understand where Robz is coming from, but am not necessarily sure it correlates with you or shraeye being scum.

[Robz888]

My thought process was clear, simple and easy to follow. Each thing stemmed naturally from the thing before it. Mailmi was scummy, Eevee defended him, I concluded he was protecting his partner or buddying town which made Eevee scum, the you did the same thing, now I am where I am at.

Maybe what colors this is that I have done those things as scummy? I have gone all out to defend my buddy early, and I have also buddied town uncontrollably. Ive done it in Blitz. So I'm on the lookout for that.

[Eevee]

I think shraeye put it pretty well. Its pretty confusing I'm scummy for defending mailmi and then suddenly you are more sure of me being scum despite the fact that the scumread on me originally hinged on mailmi being scum.

Not everyone who disagrees with you is scum and finding scum teams three hours into day 1 is pretty hard.

[Eevee]

mailmi being VLA certainly doesn't make him more towny. I would say it raises his scum score ever so slightly.

Robz thinking it's a lynchworthy abuse is something I disagree with.

[Robz888]

Now Eevee is reason to me like he is scum and mail mi isn't, and he's incredulous that I found him this way.

[spiritbears]

I think I see it a bit more scummy than you do. You initially said that you don't find it scummy at all.

Whereas I find it scummy. I do. It was very convenient timing and had no precedent before it.

HOWEVER: I do think we need to give mail-mi the benefit of a doubt... if nothing else if we lynch him w/o giving him the chance to claim we could easily screw the pooch... But once he is back he will start out at a scummier level than someone else who had announced VLA 2-3 days ago for a vacation or busy work schedule or something like that...

See the difference? So I understand where Robz is coming from, but am not necessarily sure it correlates with you or shraeye being scum.

I think is closest to bein correct.  I do have suspicion about Mai's timing, but really without a response from him it's just that.  The robz v shy/evee just seems like town intra-blitz trying hard to make it blitz.  I don't feel anyof the three has really said anything to warrant a hard scum read. 
As for my early following of Mc--I think ehtf (sorry I know I've misspelled your name--just can't go back to get it right) handled the (weak and very early) case just fine and I'm withdrawing my vote.  Really, I just don't see a clear scum read anywhere yet--/so I'm left goin with a gut feeling (which has served me well so far)---Mc works hard to appear townish when he's scum.  Too hard. I feel like he's right on that edge now. So, without a clear place to go, I'll just rest my vote there for a bit.
unvote;vote Mc

[Robz888]

Now Eevee reads to me like*

Sorry on phone now

[shraeye]

I think I see it a bit more scummy than you do. You initially said that you don't find it scummy at all.

Whereas I find it scummy. I do. It was very convenient timing and had no precedent before it.

HOWEVER: I do think we need to give mail-mi the benefit of a doubt... if nothing else if we lynch him w/o giving him the chance to claim we could easily screw the pooch... But once he is back he will start out at a scummier level than someone else who had announced VLA 2-3 days ago for a vacation or busy work schedule or something like that...

See the difference? So I understand where Robz is coming from, but am not necessarily sure it correlates with you or shraeye being scum.

I think is closest to bein correct.  I do have suspicion about Mai's timing, but really without a response from him it's just that.  The robz v shy/evee just seems like town intra-blitz trying hard to make it blitz.  I don't feel anyof the three has really said anything to warrant a hard scum read. 
As for my early following of Mc--I think ehtf (sorry I know I've misspelled your name--just can't go back to get it right) handled the (weak and very early) case just fine and I'm withdrawing my vote.  Really, I just don't see a clear scum read anywhere yet--/so I'm left goin with a gut feeling (which has served me well so far)---Mc works hard to appear townish when he's scum.  Too hard. I feel like he's right on that edge now. So, without a clear place to go, I'll just rest my vote there for a bit.
unvote;vote Mc

You mention that there is no clear scumread.  Are there any players that stick out to you as towny?

[spiritbears]

I think I see it a bit more scummy than you do. You initially said that you don't find it scummy at all.

Whereas I find it scummy. I do. It was very convenient timing and had no precedent before it.

HOWEVER: I do think we need to give mail-mi the benefit of a doubt... if nothing else if we lynch him w/o giving him the chance to claim we could easily screw the pooch... But once he is back he will start out at a scummier level than someone else who had announced VLA 2-3 days ago for a vacation or busy work schedule or something like that...

See the difference? So I understand where Robz is coming from, but am not necessarily sure it correlates with you or shraeye being scum.

I think is closest to bein correct.  I do have suspicion about Mai's timing, but really without a response from him it's just that.  The robz v shy/evee just seems like town intra-blitz trying hard to make it blitz.  I don't feel anyof the three has really said anything to warrant a hard scum read. 
As for my early following of Mc--I think ehtf (sorry I know I've misspelled your name--just can't go back to get it right) handled the (weak and very early) case just fine and I'm withdrawing my vote.  Really, I just don't see a clear scum read anywhere yet--/so I'm left goin with a gut feeling (which has served me well so far)---Mc works hard to appear townish when he's scum.  Too hard. I feel like he's right on that edge now. So, without a clear place to go, I'll just rest my vote there for a bit.
unvote;vote Mc

You mention that there is no clear scumread.  Are there any players that stick out to you as towny?

Yeah.  I mentioned efhw---I think fairly towny. And I think Yuma is coming across very towny...but not forced. 

[Insomniac]

Vote Count 1-2

EFHW (2) - Jimmmm, mcmcsalot
Eevee (1) - Robz888
mcmcsalot (2) - yuma, spiritbears
Robz888 (1) - shraeye

Not Voting (3) - Eevee, EFHW, mail-mi

Deadline: April 24 8:00am PDT, 11AM forum time (EDT)

[EFHW]

@everyone, mail-mi wouldn't even have been sure the game was starting today.  We were waiting for confirms, which were done by PM.  He posted at 9:30 and the game didn't start until almost 11.

this is a good point, but not a full point. I feel like often scum have a better grasp of when the game/day is going to start because of their quicktopic. I know many mods will post in the quicktopic and say, "you have X hours until I open the game, finish up your discussion before then."

So obliviousness to the game starting would suggest he was not scum.

[shraeye]

@everyone, mail-mi wouldn't even have been sure the game was starting today.  We were waiting for confirms, which were done by PM.  He posted at 9:30 and the game didn't start until almost 11.

this is a good point, but not a full point. I feel like often scum have a better grasp of when the game/day is going to start because of their quicktopic. I know many mods will post in the quicktopic and say, "you have X hours until I open the game, finish up your discussion before then."

So obliviousness to the game starting would suggest he was not scum.

Obliviousness can be feigned too easily.  It's very dangerous to assume somebody is not scum based off that alone.

[yuma]

yay! This includes pregame stuff cause I am lazy...

post count:
1. Jimmmmm - 8
2. Mcmcsalot - 16
3. Shraeye - 18
4. Eevee - 26
5. EFHW - 13
6. Robz888 - 23
7. Spiritbears - 5
8. Mail-Mi - 2
9. yuma - 15

[spiritbears]

Hmm. Didn't think I was that far off!  But the again I've mostly been in the sidelines of the robz/evee/Shyrae fight

[Robz888]

yay! This includes pregame stuff cause I am lazy...

post count:
1. Jimmmmm - 8
2. Mcmcsalot - 16
3. Shraeye - 18
4. Eevee - 26
5. EFHW - 13
6. Robz888 - 23
7. Spiritbears - 5
8. Mail-Mi - 2
9. yuma - 15

Sure, but half of Jimms posts are pre-game, and all of mail-mis.

[EFHW]

vote: mcmc  When is he coming back?  I'll go look it up.

[mcmcsalot]

Read along to catch up quick some things.

Spiritbears: I do do that, my mindset when I am scum is pretend to be town but I end up being too towny because I know the set up. I think the difference here was just a lot of analysis and posts so early looked forced because it was, I knew I would be Vla soon and wanted to get a lot down.

Robz/eevee/shraeye: so first off robz logic was easy to follow, he found mail-mi obviously scummy then eevee defended which was even more scummy because if mail-mi is scum eevee is bussing if mail-mi is town(though unlikely) eevee is trying to gain towncred. I think shraeye's entrance to this debate was neutral.

Ppe: what only 4?

[mcmcsalot]

Oh and vote: eevee he is playing just like I remember(he hasn't for a few games) my guess he drew scum and decided to try to mimic his old play style which everyone found towny.
Also I agree with robz reasonings.

[spiritbears]

Read along to catch up quick some things.

Spiritbears: I do do that, my mindset when I am scum is pretend to be town but I end up being too towny because I know the set up. I think the difference here was just a lot of analysis and posts so early looked forced because it was, I knew I would be Vla soon and wanted to get a lot down.

Robz/eevee/shraeye: so first off robz logic was easy to follow, he found mail-mi obviously scummy then eevee defended which was even more scummy because if mail-mi is scum eevee is bussing if mail-mi is town(though unlikely) eevee is trying to gain towncred. I think shraeye's entrance to this debate was neutral.

Ppe: what only 4?

That's totally fair and not unreasonable.  I'm just not quite with you and robzz  on Eevee yet.

[Eevee]

In this post I refute mcmc's case on me. It reads "Eevee plays just like he did before as town, that probably means he is scum and decided to mimic that, lets lynch him."


Hmmm.. Oomm.. nope, I just drew a town role.

[Eevee]

It's a sad world we live in, I get heavily suspected for thinking mailmi wouldn't fake a VLA to avoid having to play day 1.

You actually think me thinking that must mean I'm being dishonest. It's a sad world.

[EFHW]

It's a sad world we live in, I get heavily suspected for thinking mailmi wouldn't fake a VLA to avoid having to play day 1.

You actually think me thinking that must mean I'm being dishonest. It's a sad world.

This really strikes me as scummy.

[EFHW]

FYI: I won't be around at deadline tomorrow.  I'll check in a couple times in the morning and be back around 1 or so, I hope.

[spiritbears]

It's a sad world we live in, I get heavily suspected for thinking mailmi wouldn't fake a VLA to avoid having to play day 1.

You actually think me thinking that must mean I'm being dishonest. It's a sad world.

This really strikes me as scummy.

Well, defensive certainly.  But I'm not sure it's more def town or def scummy.  Wifom

[mail-mi]

Guys, techno free Tuesday is something my parents are making me do. I'm not technically supposed to be posting this or even be on this iPad.

[EFHW]

Guys, techno free Tuesday is something my parents are making me do. I'm not technically supposed to be posting this or even be on this iPad.

Well if they catch you, tell them that this post may have saved your life, so to speak. 

[shraeye]

Read along to catch up quick some things.

Spiritbears: I do do that, my mindset when I am scum is pretend to be town but I end up being too towny because I know the set up. I think the difference here was just a lot of analysis and posts so early looked forced because it was, I knew I would be Vla soon and wanted to get a lot down.

Robz/eevee/shraeye: so first off robz logic was easy to follow, he found mail-mi obviously scummy then eevee defended which was even more scummy because if mail-mi is scum eevee is bussing if mail-mi is town(though unlikely) eevee is trying to gain towncred. I think shraeye's entrance to this debate was neutral.

Ppe: what only 4?

That's totally fair and not unreasonable.  I'm just not quite with you and robzz  on Eevee yet.

Now this feels very hedgy.  spirit gives credit to an argument, yet says he doesn't agree with it , at least "not quite yet".

[shraeye]

I'm still feeling great with my vote on Robz.

Mail-mi has a pass for now

EFHW is a solid townread
eevee is townish, I don't find his "This is a sad world that I get suspected for giving mailmi a pass" to be a scummy bit.
mcmcsalot is sitting neutral, I keep searching deep to see which way I lean on him and I'm uncertain
yuma i'm leaning slight scum, no clear idea why.
spiritbears has hit my list for people to be wary of.  He is a scumread
jimmmm I'd love to hear a bit more from him, my read is unformed so far (which is different than the neutral read on mcmcsalot)

That's pretty much where I sit right now.

[EFHW]

Robz/eevee/shraeye: so first off robz logic was easy to follow, he found mail-mi obviously scummy then eevee defended which was even more scummy because if mail-mi is scum eevee is bussing if mail-mi is town(though unlikely) eevee is trying to gain towncred. I think shraeye's entrance to this debate was neutral.

I don't get the underlined part.  If Eevee is defending him then how is he bussing? 

[yuma]

Guys, techno free Tuesday is something my parents are making me do. I'm not technically supposed to be posting this or even be on this iPad.

Well if they catch you, tell them that this post may have saved your life, so to speak.

HA!

[mcmcsalot]

Robz/eevee/shraeye: so first off robz logic was easy to follow, he found mail-mi obviously scummy then eevee defended which was even more scummy because if mail-mi is scum eevee is bussing if mail-mi is town(though unlikely) eevee is trying to gain towncred. I think shraeye's entrance to this debate was neutral.

I don't get the underlined part.  If Eevee is defending him then how is he bussing?

So the idea is that if mail-mi and eevee are scum eevee is bussing by defending his partner, if mail-mi is town and eevee is scum eevee is defending him in an attempt to gain towncred. This is a more likely scenario than town eevee defending town mail-mi because then eevee does not know mail-mi's alignment and has little reason to defend him the way he did, same thing with scum mail-mi and town eevee.

So while mail-mi was found scummy by robz for the whole v/la thing, eevee is actually the much scummier one because of his defense. Especially at the time eevee came in mail-mi was not in real need of a townie to stick his neck out like that.

[EFHW]

Robz/eevee/shraeye: so first off robz logic was easy to follow, he found mail-mi obviously scummy then eevee defended which was even more scummy because if mail-mi is scum eevee is bussing if mail-mi is town(though unlikely) eevee is trying to gain towncred. I think shraeye's entrance to this debate was neutral.

I don't get the underlined part.  If Eevee is defending him then how is he bussing?

So the idea is that if mail-mi and eevee are scum eevee is bussing by defending his partner,

I thought bussing was accusing your partner of being scummy, not arguing that he's not scummy.  I'm not saying Eevee's been acting towny, I'm just confused about this bussing thing. 

[EFHW]

I'm going now.  Don't burn the house down overnight!

[yuma]

Robz/eevee/shraeye: so first off robz logic was easy to follow, he found mail-mi obviously scummy then eevee defended which was even more scummy because if mail-mi is scum eevee is bussing if mail-mi is town(though unlikely) eevee is trying to gain towncred. I think shraeye's entrance to this debate was neutral.

I don't get the underlined part.  If Eevee is defending him then how is he bussing?

So the idea is that if mail-mi and eevee are scum eevee is bussing by defending his partner, if mail-mi is town and eevee is scum eevee is defending him in an attempt to gain towncred. This is a more likely scenario than town eevee defending town mail-mi because then eevee does not know mail-mi's alignment and has little reason to defend him the way he did, same thing with scum mail-mi and town eevee.

So while mail-mi was found scummy by robz for the whole v/la thing, eevee is actually the much scummier one because of his defense. Especially at the time eevee came in mail-mi was not in real need of a townie to stick his neck out like that.

yes. If mail-mi and eevee are both scum (not saying they are, just a hypothetical) I would not say that what eevee is doing is bussing. Defending and bussing are on very opposite sides of the spectrum.

[spiritbears]

Read along to catch up quick some things.

Spiritbears: I do do that, my mindset when I am scum is pretend to be town but I end up being too towny because I know the set up. I think the difference here was just a lot of analysis and posts so early looked forced because it was, I knew I would be Vla soon and wanted to get a lot down.

Robz/eevee/shraeye: so first off robz logic was easy to follow, he found mail-mi obviously scummy then eevee defended which was even more scummy because if mail-mi is scum eevee is bussing if mail-mi is town(though unlikely) eevee is trying to gain towncred. I think shraeye's entrance to this debate was neutral.

Ppe: what only 4?

That's totally fair and not unreasonable.  I'm just not quite with you and robzz  on Eevee yet.

Now this feels very hedgy.  spirit gives credit to an argument, yet says he doesn't agree with it , at least "not quite yet".

Absolutely I'm hedging.  I don't quite agree with their case on Eevee.  I think he's being defensive town.  But I'm willing to watch and see if there's anything to it.

[yuma]

well everything up to this point has made me want to continue voting for mcmc. I am going to bed, I will be on for a little bit in the morning to reevaluate and cast my final vote for the day and then will not have access at the deadline due to being at work. I will probably be back around 2 forum time or so...

[Robz888]

I still wanna lynch Eevee.

[mcmcsalot]

Robz/eevee/shraeye: so first off robz logic was easy to follow, he found mail-mi obviously scummy then eevee defended which was even more scummy because if mail-mi is scum eevee is bussing if mail-mi is town(though unlikely) eevee is trying to gain towncred. I think shraeye's entrance to this debate was neutral.

I don't get the underlined part.  If Eevee is defending him then how is he bussing?

So the idea is that if mail-mi and eevee are scum eevee is bussing by defending his partner,

I thought bussing was accusing your partner of being scummy, not arguing that he's not scummy.  I'm not saying Eevee's been acting towny, I'm just confused about this bussing thing.

Yep I was using the term completely wrong sorry.

[shraeye]

Now this feels very hedgy.  spirit gives credit to an argument, yet says he doesn't agree with it , at least "not quite yet".

Absolutely I'm hedging.  I don't quite agree with their case on Eevee.  I think he's being defensive town.  But I'm willing to watch and see if there's anything to it.

Keep us posted on your thoughts as they develop.

[shraeye]

So while mail-mi was found scummy by robz for the whole v/la thing, eevee is actually the much scummier one because of his defense. Especially at the time eevee came in mail-mi was not in real need of a townie to stick his neck out like that.

Are you saying that eevee was "really sticking his neck out" by saying this?

i don't think the thing about mail-mi is scummy at allll.

Because that just looks like regular observation to me.

[Insomniac]

Vote Count 1-3

EFHW (1) - Jimmmm
Eevee (2) - Robz888, mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (3) - yuma, spiritbears, EFHW
Robz888 (1) - shraeye

Not Voting (2) - Eevee, mail-mi

Deadline: April 24 8:00am PDT, 11AM forum time (EDT)

[Jimmmmm]

The comment wasn't about RVS'ing mcmc, which I haven't done. It was about how mcmc and I always end up on opposite teams (in the 3 games I've been in so far).   I guess this is 4.  Eevee would be next on my scum suspicions list.  No particular read otherwise, except maybe Jimmmmm for starting this whole silly mess.

I'm going to vote mcmc, but before I do, what L is he at?

You don't understand - this isn't a silly mess at all. You said you don't like RVS, and that was a semi-RVS vote which caused people to make serious cases on you. I'm very pleased with it because it brought us out of RVS nicely. And you should be too.

[Jimmmmm]

Hate to come in and leave straight away but I'm going to have to. I haven't fully caught up yet but I will when I get the chance.

[EFHW]

Eevee is lurking.

How do we decide this?  If mcmc is not going to fly tonight/this a.m. I'm willing to switch to Eevee, but only if he's going thru.

[EFHW]

Robz/eevee/shraeye: so first off robz logic was easy to follow, he found mail-mi obviously scummy then eevee defended which was even more scummy because if mail-mi is scum eevee is bussing if mail-mi is town(though unlikely) eevee is trying to gain towncred. I think shraeye's entrance to this debate was neutral.

I don't get the underlined part.  If Eevee is defending him then how is he bussing?

So the idea is that if mail-mi and eevee are scum eevee is bussing by defending his partner,

I thought bussing was accusing your partner of being scummy, not arguing that he's not scummy.  I'm not saying Eevee's been acting towny, I'm just confused about this bussing thing.

Yep I was using the term completely wrong sorry
[/
I am noticing that Spirit thought it made sense.  Or said he did, rather.

[EFHW]

On phone. My reply is in the quote.

[EFHW]

If I die tonight, you all know my reads. 

[Eevee]

Eevee is lurking.

How do we decide this?  If mcmc is not going to fly tonight/this a.m. I'm willing to switch to Eevee, but only if he's going thru.

Oh wow. When the most recent post count was made, I had THE most posts. Then I went to sleep, you managed one more page, during which I was accused of being a lurker. I probably STILL lead the post count but oh by all means add lurking to my list of offenses.

I feel like suspecting the guys who try to get me lynched as all I see is mischaracterizations and logic I don't agree with.

Mcmc saying that me "defending" mailmi is scummy regardless of his alignment is very incorrect. Observations like that are what I do. I cant for the life of me comprehend why that would be scummy, and I guess we are already far enough for me to need to be voting, so vote: mcmc despite the early town read.

[shraeye]

Eevee is lurking.

How do we decide this?  If mcmc is not going to fly tonight/this a.m. I'm willing to switch to Eevee, but only if he's going thru.

Why are you intent on seeing Eevee die?

[yuma]

not enough happened in the night for me to change my vote. I think it will stay on mcmc.

[shraeye]

I want to revote Robz, and encourage people to join me.

He has nothing of substance since I've explained how his statements had me confused and voted him. (except to say he wants eevee lynched, and that mailmi/jimmm's post counts are inflated) Robz, the originator of the "if you are under heat, disappear and so will suspicion" tactic.

Vote: Robz

[shraeye]

I'd like people to take a stance on Robz, if they're around and have time to set out a few reads, actually.

[yuma]

to me robz has been an arms swinging, guns flying style of robz. I think that is more of a town robz than anything else. I do think he is capable of faking that style of play as mafia... but as I have said before in other games, doing something crazy as scum is very very risky. Because robz's style of play will make people want to lynch him and the only thing holding them back is remembering that town!robz often kinda acts a bit crazy. But all it takes is a few people to not think that and tada!, he is lynched.

So I don't think I will vote for him today.

[shraeye]

I too think Robz has been very "arms swinging" as you put it, but I'm not sure if that aggressiveness has actually been channeled into "aggressive scumhunting".  That's my take.

[EFHW]

I actually agree that Robz's attack on Eevee (and mail-mi) seemed excessive.  I never had a problem with Eevee defending mail-mi.  Robz calls people scum emphatically to see what happens, though, so I'm not sure if it's a scumtell or not.  All the times I've seen him do that, he was town.  He's not being active, but I've never played a game where he was.  So, I guess he takes Jimmmmm's place on my list, but I don't think I would vote yet.

Eevee is lurking.

How do we decide this?  If mcmc is not going to fly tonight/this a.m. I'm willing to switch to Eevee, but only if he's going thru.

Why are you intent on seeing Eevee die?

I'm not.  I'm worried about no lynch.

[yuma]

I actually agree that Robz's attack on Eevee (and mail-mi) seemed excessive.  I never had a problem with Eevee defending mail-mi.  Robz calls people scum emphatically to see what happens, though, so I'm not sure if it's a scumtell or not.  All the times I've seen him do that, he was town.  He's not being active, but I've never played a game where he was.  So, I guess he takes Jimmmmm's place on my list, but I don't think I would vote yet.

Eevee is lurking.

How do we decide this?  If mcmc is not going to fly tonight/this a.m. I'm willing to switch to Eevee, but only if he's going thru.

Why are you intent on seeing Eevee die?

I'm not.  I'm worried about no lynch.

this game has a hidden democracy vote, yes?

In the event that 2 players are tied for the most votes at deadline, hidden democracy will be used.

so a no lynch is less likely to happen.

[EFHW]

Oh, I thought that meant Insom chose randomly!  How does hidden democracy work?

[EFHW]

Guess that bastard game really had it's effect on me!

[shraeye]

I think deadline is in 105 minutes, unless I'm counting wrong.  I'll be on again at 10:30 after I teach.

[yuma]

Oh, I thought that meant Insom chose randomly!  How does hidden democracy work?

I have never done it before... but basically if there is a tie between two players, we will all PM insomniac our choice of who to lynch (everyone has to vote I believe) and the person with the most will be lynched and our choices will become public knowledge at the time of the flip. Since there are 9 alive one will get a majority if everyone votes.

[EFHW]

Oh, I thought that meant Insom chose randomly!  How does hidden democracy work?

I have never done it before... but basically if there is a tie between two players, we will all PM insomniac our choice of who to lynch (everyone has to vote I believe) and the person with the most will be lynched and our choices will become public knowledge at the time of the flip. Since there are 9 alive one will get a majority if everyone votes.

Ok, and I see now if no one has 5 the one with most is lynched.  That changes things.  What I meant before was that I didn't want to change my vote, but would to prevent no lynch. 

Vote count please

[shraeye]

I'm not.  I'm worried about no lynch.

So in a blitz game, a lynch will always happen.  Right now mcmcsalot is on the line because he's got the most votes.

I'd still love to see Robz get that spot instead.  I'm still suspicious of spiritbears as well.  yuma always makes me uneasy, but i definitely prefer the mcmcsalot lynch over a sudden switch to him, as I have no evidence backing up that unease. 

[shraeye]

Vote Count 1-3

EFHW (1) - Jimmmm
Eevee (2) - Robz888, mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (3) - yuma, spiritbears, EFHW
Robz888 (1) - shraeye

Not Voting (2) - Eevee, mail-mi

Deadline: April 24 8:00am PDT, 11AM forum time (EDT)

Nobody has changed their vote since this.

[shraeye]

I'm out to teach for an hour.

[mcmcsalot]

I am definitely leaning town on robz play style, when I said eevee was sticking his head out I didn't mean just I that post, robz had been guns out already and eevee stepped into the ring with him in mail-mi's defense. Also when I said eevee is scummy ether way I was explaining robz statement. I am voting for eevee because he is coming across as attempting to copy old eevee playstyle by buddying and making blanket town reads on people. I will do a revised post count when I get back from class.

In blitz games your required to post a lot and fast. So I think meta reads work a lot better here.

Depending on post count and reread I could vote for eevee, efhw, spirit. At least that's what I am thinking now.

[Jimmmmm]

Hey guys, sorry for my absence, I've been a lot busier today than I thought I'd be. I'm on night shift tonight and while I can't contribute that much at the moment since I have actual work to do, I will be able to post a lot in a couple of hours when there's nothing to do here.

[EFHW]

i don't think the thing about mail-mi is scummy at allll.

Why not? Gotta bail out your scumbuddy?

I dont think inventing a VLA to bail out from posting is a likely scum strategy for mailmi or anyone really. Not a town tell either, just null.

You're wrong. It is obviously a scum strategy, we've seen it in practice as a scum strategy, and more specifically it fits mail-mi, who is clumsy as scum. So you're just super wrong. But are you scum trying to buddy a townie, or are you sticking your neck out for scumpartner?

This is Robz's aggressive post, which also turned out to be inaccurate.  In MXX, he called Sudgy "caught flailing scum", and Sudgy was town, and so was Robz.  His insistence on being right and his claiming that he was being logical is scummy, because of course it's possible that mail-mi was legitimately vla. 

So Eevee got provoked by this, which was the point.  Would town!Eevee let it get to him is the question.

mcmc and Robz have both been energetic in making weak cases.  Eevee has been less friendly and level-headed than usual.

[EFHW]

MXXI - the newbie game.

[mcmcsalot]

Okay doing a list a bit backwards.

Town(will not vote): Jimm, shraeye, Yuma
Swing spot(could vote pending more info): robz, spirit, mail-mi, efhw
Scum(would vote): eevee

Breakdown

Jimm/shraeye/Yuma: I have reviewed previous games with these guys they are playin exactly like I except them to play as town they are ordered strongest to weakest based on how likely I think it is they could fake this as scum. Either way they are also helpful and not a good lynch D1

Robz: I'm leaning town because coming out the way he did was pro town. This is blitz we are approaching deadline the interaction robz created because he came on so strong is one of the few things we have to analyze and forced people to make stances also making is strong and short it was likely to evoke quick reactions from people which are better for revealing alignment.

Spirit: sheeped me early, then voted me for a meta read on me, then hedged me/robz case. Hasn't contributed as much as I would like and has flown under the radar a bit. Some concrete stances could away me toward a town read. Or at least make me more comfortable with you around.

Mail-mi: has been given a pass, I would also like to assume the v/la thread is separate for this game and therefor not to be used for a scum cover. I think these two events(v/la and scum draw) could have overlapped. I also think mail-mi should work a bit harder to help us out when he can get back here to do so.

Efhw: I was suspicious early due to your paranoia and false statement toward me. I was wrong about my meta statement for how scum!efhw has handled rvs in the past. You also explained your post about rvs'ing in a strange way let me grab those.

I don't want to RVS, but if I was RVS'ing I'd vote for mcmc because that's what I always do.  I hope we're on the same team this time, for once!

The comment wasn't about RVS'ing mcmc, which I haven't done. It was about how mcmc and I always end up on opposite teams (in the 3 games I've been in so far).   I guess this is 4.

I'm going to vote mcmc, but before I do, what L is he at?

Okay so just to clarify your original post meant what? If you were rvs'ing you would vote for me because we are always on different teams? Because that is not what you said you said you always vote for me. Then I the second post you vote for me, could I have some reasons please.(if I missed them just point it out)
Anyway, I can believe the opening confusion and if your voting me for why I think you are I can see it as a town!efhw vote. I also think you did handle the case on you well and think I am leaning more town as I continually review.

Eevee: I have given reasons before, many of his posts pull at emotions and he has stated a few town reads without a whole lot of definable backing which is typical eevee buddying. I think this is fake. I also so his extended go with robz scummy especially how he ended it with a this is sad post. It's a way to drop out of that spotlight put on the two of them without changing stances. Also he reacted defensively to getting called a lurker, I believe many of the things he has done point to caught scum.

[EFHW]

Vote Count 1-3

EFHW (1) - Jimmmm
Eevee (2) - Robz888, mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (3) - yuma, spiritbears, EFHW
Robz888 (1) - shraeye

Not Voting (2) - Eevee, mail-mi

Deadline: April 24 8:00am PDT, 11AM forum time (EDT)

Nobody has changed their vote since this.

Eevee voted for mcmc

[EFHW]

I have to go, be back in a few hours.

[Insomniac]

Vote Count 1-4

EFHW (1) - Jimmmm
Eevee (2) - Robz888, mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (4) - yuma, spiritbears, EFHW, Eevee {L-1}
Robz888 (1) - shraeye

Not Voting (1) - mail-mi

Deadline: April 24 8:00am PDT, 11AM forum time (EDT), ~35 mins

[mcmcsalot]

I have to go, be back in a few hours.

Deadline is in 30 min?

[mcmcsalot]

Shraeye/Jimm/mail-mi willing to lynch eevee over me because that's what it's getting to. Unless we can get here and get something else going quock

[shraeye]

At this point, I'm not willing to Eevee.

[spiritbears]

At this point, I'm not willing to Eevee.

Me either.  At this juncture.

[shraeye]

Spirit: sheeped me early, then voted me for a meta read on me, then hedged me/robz case. Hasn't contributed as much as I would like and has flown under the radar a bit. Some concrete stances could away me toward a town read. Or at least make me more comfortable with you around.

This is something that I agree with.  spirit has done a lot of fly under the radar.  I would switch to him.

[shraeye]

In fact, make it so

vote: spiritbears

[mcmcsalot]

vote: spiritbears better lynch than me and not someone I wouldn't vote for.

[spiritbears]

In fact, make it so

vote: spiritbears

That would be a mistake.  And besides I haven't flown under any radar. 

[shraeye]

And besides I haven't flown under any radar.

What makes you say that?

[mcmcsalot]

efhw i see you on get in here, i would still like your reason for voting me so I can dispute it if possible an I want your thought on the next person you would vote for.

[spiritbears]

And besides I haven't flown under any radar.

What makes you say that?

I've been completely out in the open and willing to engage in every lynch proposal in this game.  I've been completely honest.  MC I think is omagus...but you, I don't know why you are doing this except to give you're buddy MC an opening.  Definitely goin to be keeping an eye on you.

[mcmcsalot]

And besides I haven't flown under any radar.

What makes you say that?

I've been completely out in the open and willing to engage in every lynch proposal in this game.  I've been completely honest.  MC I think is omagus...but you, I don't know why you are doing this except to give you're buddy MC an opening.  Definitely goin to be keeping an eye on you.

spirit I am not omgussing, I wish there was more time but from my perspective you are a better lynch than me. So I am willing to bounce around and get someone not me lynched with the votes we have that are actually here before deadline. If we don't have enough to even get a lynch at this time town has failed miserably

[Insomniac]

Vote Count 1-5

EFHW (1) - Jimmmm
Eevee (2) - Robz888
mcmcsalot (4) - yuma, spiritbears, EFHW, Eevee {L-1}
spiritbears (2) - shraeye, mcmcsalot

Not Voting (1) - mail-mi

Deadline: April 24 8:00am PDT, 11AM forum time (EDT), ~18 mins

[mcmcsalot]

spirit promise me you stick around for these 18 min andwe can work out the best option for town.

[mcmcsalot]

wow even with me shraeye and spirit here we couldn't get a majority.

does day end the before or after secret democracy

[spiritbears]

spirit promise me you stick around for these 18 min andwe can work out the best option for town.

I'm here and willin to work.  I don't think you are the best lunch either.  But I'm not sure who would be better.

[mcmcsalot]

jimm's vote is left on efhw, robz vote is left on eevee. These are what the three of us need to use to get a lynch if its not going to be me. You guys don't want eevee hows efhw sound?

[spiritbears]

MC-  who do think makes a better candidate?  Eevee?  I'm still not comfortable with that.  Pitch me your case.

[spiritbears]

jimm's vote is left on efhw, robz vote is left on eevee. These are what the three of us need to use to get a lynch if its not going to be me. You guys don't want eevee hows efhw sound?

That was my first vote....I thought he responded well to the case

[mcmcsalot]

I think eevee is better because he has been trying to play like old eevee. To me he used to be really nice friednly and noone ever voted him(he was also always town) but recently I think he has grown as a player the past few town games he was less buddy and more impactfull. I think he drew scum this game and decided to try to mimick old eevee as an attempt to look townie.

I think robz noticed this and put a position for eevee to buddy someone(mail-mi) I think eevee took the bait and got caught defending someone he didnt need to be for very little reason. He then played the this is sad card and hoped out of the spotlight and then threw his vote on the biggest wagon.

[mcmcsalot]

But efhw is not crazy towny to me and she is uch better than me. Shraeye you here I need you to help coordinate some stuff!

[mcmcsalot]

also eevee is online but not here. I think we need to do some stuff quick and hope witches arent around shraeye spirit you both say your here in a post then we can do something.

[spiritbears]

I think eevee is better because he has been trying to play like old eevee. To me he used to be really nice friednly and noone ever voted him(he was also always town) but recently I think he has grown as a player the past few town games he was less buddy and more impactfull. I think he drew scum this game and decided to try to mimick old eevee as an attempt to look townie.

I think robz noticed this and put a position for eevee to buddy someone(mail-mi) I think eevee took the bait and got caught defending someone he didnt need to be for very little reason. He then played the this is sad card and hoped out of the spotlight and then threw his vote on the biggest wagon.

It's true...he had been extra defensive this game.  But believing that case requires knowledge of his play on a deep meta level which I just don't know
Anyway, in not going to let this happen with not everyone here, as I'm still not convinced you're scum MC. unvote

[shraeye]

I don't think you are the best lunch either.

Why are you voting for him if you feel this way???

[mcmcsalot]

okay your here can we vote: efhw spirit gets town points for being here

[mcmcsalot]

plese say if you will vote or not now so i can say one more thing if you wont

[spiritbears]

I want to hear Shyrae on ehfw

[shraeye]

No, not EFHW.

spiritbears is scum here with his position on mcmcsalot relative to his voting record and the recent unvote.   he is also hestant about voting Eevee.

I suspect that pair right now.

[mcmcsalot]

WE CANT LYNCH SPIRIT NOW

[mcmcsalot]

I am a fool it is confirmable by my dayvig power tomorrow. We should all vote: efhw or eevee. And hope the witches don't change there nk.

[mcmcsalot]

GOGOGO OR EEVEE 2 MIN

[shraeye]

Eevee.

Vote: Eevee.


shoot at spiritbears.

[mcmcsalot]

VOTE: EEVEE

[mcmcsalot]

its a dayvig we will decide tomorow who i shoot

[spiritbears]

That's just crazy Shyrae.  I have consistently said I don't don't think we have a great candidate.  I'm tryin to help us get to consensus.  How is that scummy???

[mcmcsalot]

spirit i am not shooting you now, vote eevee and save your town power role

[Eevee]

vote: ehfw

[mcmcsalot]

We get to talk all day tomorow about who I shoot right now we need to keep me alive so i can do it

[spiritbears]

Eevee.

Vote: Eevee.


shoot at spiritbears.

Vvote Shyrae.  Weak cases, trying to direct kills he doesn't have.  Scum behavior.

[shraeye]

it's tied with eevee/mcmc at 3.

I expect vote to fall towards eevee and not mcmc, clearly.  Only scum would want to lynch the PR.

[Insomniac]

THREAD LOCKED

[spiritbears]

We get to talk all day tomorow about who I shoot right now we need to keep me alive so i can do it

I already kept you alive wen I unvoted

[Insomniac]

FINAL Vote Count 1-6

EFHW (1) - Jimmmm, Eevee
Eevee (3) - Robz888, shraeye, mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (2) - yuma, EFHW
Shraeye (1) - spiritbears

Not Voting (1) - mail-mi

[Insomniac]

The town slowly ganged up around Eevee, it was decisive by no means, but Robz, shraeye and mcmcsalot decided that Eevee was going to leave, they quickly tied a noose and forced Eevee into a house where they lifted him onto a chair and fastened the rope to a beam in the house. with haste mcmcsalot kicked out the chair and the three watched as Eevee eventually grew limp and lifeless. They searched his belongings and found nothing that would indicate much of anything.

Eevee has been lynched, he was a Vanilla Townie

Thread still locked.

[Insomniac]

An explosion went off on the other side of the town blowing up a house, the town ran over not knowing what they would find. Quickly scouring the burning wreckage they only found one dead body, it was that of yuma. A quick search of his corpse turned up nothing out of the ordinary.

Yuma the Vanilla Townie has been killed

[Insomniac]

Day 2 Start

Vote Count 2-0

Not Voting (7) - Jimmmmm, Mcmcsalot, Shraeye, EFHW, Robz888, Spiritbears, Mail-Mi

[mcmcsalot]

Typing during thread lock will post as soon as open

I LOVE YOU SPIRITBEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SO CLUTCH, thank you for bieng around to help really cannot see him bieng scum if i'm not nk'd.
So if eevee flips scum I am dead but at least we got scum. If eevee flips town shraeye/spirit are confirmed town. so if we have another pr out there we have this solved

That means I am hoping.

Oh and for reference yuma is scum noway he leaves his vote through deadline like that yuma is careful.
I think efhw is the other scum. She was watching so I am probably dead.

WOOOOOO this is better than hitting one scum and me dying. now if I still die we are in biig trouble.
Come on insom tell me i'm alive. tell me!!!!!

YESSSSS though yuma isn't scum.

Town: mcmc, shraeye, spirit, eevee, yuma
Scum: robz, mail-me, efhw, jimm

This is where we are at and can have hopefully another ic from that scum pool. Then we are really in good shape.

[mcmcsalot]

shraeye do you agree there is no way spiritbears is scum with me still alive. Same with spiritbears about shraeye.

Eevee being town and not posting more around deadline makes me really sad. wish we could have got efhw instead because I think she is scum but its okay we are still in really good shape.

[shraeye]

I LOVE YOU SPIRITBEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SO CLUTCH, thank you for bieng around to help really cannot see him bieng scum if i'm not nk'd.

I don't understand how you living clears him in particular.  Wouldn't any scum pair have rationally tried to NK you, unless they were bulletproof?

I think you living either is dangerous scum-play, or because they aren't afraid of you.

[mcmcsalot]

Oh i am very saddened by the town in robz/jimm/ehw/mai-mi pay attention to the deadline jimm was around but obviously busy but clearly he had no idea the deadline was so soon(or is scum) same with efhw. Just careless to say yea i'll be back in a couple hours cuz i'm busy but in the meantime before I'm busy I'm not going to give any helpful thoughts toward the final lynch.

[shraeye]

mail-mi, your pass is up.  please give a report on day 1 thoughts and posts.

[spiritbears]

I LOVE YOU SPIRITBEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SO CLUTCH, thank you for bieng around to help really cannot see him bieng scum if i'm not nk'd.

I don't understand how you living clears him in particular.  Wouldn't any scum pair have rationally tried to NK you, unless they were bulletproof?

I think you living either is dangerous scum-play, or because they aren't afraid of you.

I guess I'm a little confused at MC's optimism.  Eevee gets mislunch and Yuma---a very helpful townie is gone.  Also, can someone explain to why we lost Eevee when he only had 3 votes? 

[mcmcsalot]

I LOVE YOU SPIRITBEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SO CLUTCH, thank you for bieng around to help really cannot see him bieng scum if i'm not nk'd.

I don't understand how you living clears him in particular.  Wouldn't any scum pair have rationally tried to NK you, unless they were bulletproof?

I think you living either is dangerous scum-play, or because they aren't afraid of you.

yea me living clears both of you, the witch nk is cast anytime during the day and can be changed up untill day end. So if you or spiritbears was scum you would have changed your nk to me. So the scum team consists of people who are not around during deadline. If one of you is scum that means we had 2 town players around at deadline and the scum was smart enough to save the PR and then not nk the PR for town cred, I'll give that scum team a win anyday.

[shraeye]

ooh, I guess I didn't know insom's method for NKs.

[shraeye]

But mafia have a choice to be either investigation-proof or bullet-proof, right?

[mcmcsalot]

I LOVE YOU SPIRITBEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SO CLUTCH, thank you for bieng around to help really cannot see him bieng scum if i'm not nk'd.

I don't understand how you living clears him in particular.  Wouldn't any scum pair have rationally tried to NK you, unless they were bulletproof?

I think you living either is dangerous scum-play, or because they aren't afraid of you.

I guess I'm a little confused at MC's optimism.  Eevee gets mislunch and Yuma---a very helpful townie is gone.  Also, can someone explain to why we lost Eevee when he only had 3 votes?

We lynch the person with the most votes.

I am optimistic not that we lost 2 townies but that I am alive.

I am clearing you and shraeye due to the working to save me.

So that means confirmed town for me is: mcmc, shraeye, spirit, eevee, yuma
So our only possible scum is in: robz, jimm, efhw, mail-mi.

Neither of you have claimed fool so one of them is. That means we have 3 possible scum. If the other fool picked dayvig as well, thats game over we win bang bang lynch.

[mcmcsalot]

But mafia have a choice to be either investigation-proof or bullet-proof, right?

nope, they have choice of investigation-proof or suicidal, they die and I go with them.

[shraeye]

oooh, neato!  That's real strong for town then, as dayviggers can't have their kills blocked.

[shraeye]

and it helpfully alleviates all suspicions I have of you, because dayviggers are 100% confirmable.

[mcmcsalot]

So lets pretend jimm is the other fool with dayvig.
even if both witches chose suicidal(the anti vig power)

Town: mcmc, jimm, spirit, shraeye
Scum: robz, efhw, mail-mi

I shoot efhw, if she is town then we know both scum players and win, if she is scum I blow up.

Town: jimm, spirit, shraeye
Scum: robz, mail-mi

Jimm shoots either one and you win or lynch the other.

Obviously jimm may not be the power role but one of them is.

[mcmcsalot]

and it helpfully alleviates all suspicions I have of you, because dayviggers are 100% confirmable.

oh yea I thought that out, wouldn't have said anything if it was an investigation or the neighborizor.

I was a fool last time, I still think vig is by far the best. Investigation is only useful on a scum result due to investigation proof possibility. That means you are either doing nothing or catching scum. The vig either clears a townie(killing them) or catches scum. Still much better.

[spiritbears]

I LOVE YOU SPIRITBEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SO CLUTCH, thank you for bieng around to help really cannot see him bieng scum if i'm not nk'd.

I don't understand how you living clears him in particular.  Wouldn't any scum pair have rationally tried to NK you, unless they were bulletproof?

I think you living either is dangerous scum-play, or because they aren't afraid of you.

I guess I'm a little confused at MC's optimism.  Eevee gets mislunch and Yuma---a very helpful townie is gone.  Also, can someone explain to why we lost Eevee when he only had 3 votes?

We lynch the person with the most votes.

I am optimistic not that we lost 2 townies but that I am alive.

I am clearing you and shraeye due to the working to save me.

So that means confirmed town for me is: mcmc, shraeye, spirit, eevee, yuma
So our only possible scum is in: robz, jimm, efhw, mail-mi.

Neither of you have claimed fool so one of them is. That means we have 3 possible scum. If the other fool picked dayvig as well, thats game over we win bang bang lynch.

I'm not sure what Shyrae did to save you...other than he vocally disapproved of lunching Eevee, which I agreed with and I think gives him some decent town cred.

Well in to the our next play. I think Robzz has some answering to do for his tunneling Eevee z(MC you didn't disagree with hjs ultra-meta case). I'm less down to lynch Mai.  But that will depend on what he says and whether he joins this game in any real way.

[mcmcsalot]

But if shraeye was scum he would have nk'd me. Or not changed his vote from you spirit, then it would have only been 2 votes eevee and 2 votes on me so secret democracy would have came in.

Our next play is getting the other pr to claim and see what power they grabbed. Then we have our pool of three possible scum and fire away.

[spiritbears]

But if shraeye was scum he would have nk'd me. Or not changed his vote from you spirit, then it would have only been 2 votes eevee and 2 votes on me so secret democracy would have came in.

Our next play is getting the other pr to claim and see what power they grabbed. Then we have our pool of three possible scum and fire away.

That's true.
Are you suggesting mass claim or just pr claims?

[mcmcsalot]

But if shraeye was scum he would have nk'd me. Or not changed his vote from you spirit, then it would have only been 2 votes eevee and 2 votes on me so secret democracy would have came in.

Our next play is getting the other pr to claim and see what power they grabbed. Then we have our pool of three possible scum and fire away.

That's true.
Are you suggesting mass claim or just pr claims?

This game is an open set up, 2 fools(town power roles) 2 witches(scum) so assuming noone is going to claim witch yes I just want the other fool the claim. Oh I guess I want him to claim what power he picked as well. Unless its neighborize. Then I guess idk what we do probably he should stay quiet.

[Robz888]

So I guess techno-free tuesday is two days long? Vote: mail-mi, this is ridiculous.

Sorry about Eevee but not really because he was and is still wrong. Mail-mi has posted ONCE this entire game. Free pass!

[mcmcsalot]

So I guess techno-free tuesday is two days long? Vote: mail-mi, this is ridiculous.

Sorry about Eevee but not really because he was and is still wrong. Mail-mi has posted ONCE this entire game. Free pass!

Wanna comment on anything else I had to say...

[Robz888]

Yeah, your thinking on vigilante is totally wrong, and I doubt the other person should claim.

There are two reasons that scum would leave the vig alive, one general one and one specific one.

The general one: Vigs usually hit town! Seriously, vigs are murderers of town most of the time. Scum do not fear them. They are an asset.

Secondly, scum probably how has the suicidal vengeance thing!

[shraeye]

Sorry about Eevee but not really because he was and is still wrong. Mail-mi has posted ONCE this entire game. Free pass!

I will back up eevee to the end, everything was great, including the sac he made at the end.  day 1 free pass was given, which requires a more serious day 2 from mail-mi.  I am very much waiting for him to say things.

[Robz888]

Sorry about Eevee but not really because he was and is still wrong. Mail-mi has posted ONCE this entire game. Free pass!

I will back up eevee to the end, everything was great, including the sac he made at the end.  day 1 free pass was given, which requires a more serious day 2 from mail-mi.  I am very much waiting for him to say things.

Okay, well I will cash in a free pass now. See ya, maybe I will post on same later day. It's National Robz Can't Use The Internet Day!

In case anyone is confused--though how you could be is baffling to me--shraeye and mail-mi are the most obvious scum pair in scum history, and Eevee was their dupe. Don't let them win.

I would help, but it's National Robz Can't Use the Internet Day.

Carry on!

[shraeye]

In case anyone is confused--though how you could be is baffling to me--shraeye and mail-mi are the most obvious scum pair in scum history, and Eevee was their dupe. Don't let them win.

Yeah, exactly as "obvious" as that scum-eevee who first defended mail-mi.  i hope you see exactly how absurd this sounds, and I hope others do too.

[Robz888]

In case anyone is confused--though how you could be is baffling to me--shraeye and mail-mi are the most obvious scum pair in scum history, and Eevee was their dupe. Don't let them win.

Yeah, exactly as "obvious" as that scum-eevee who first defended mail-mi.  i hope you see exactly how absurd this sounds, and I hope others do too.

I would answer you but I have a convenient VLA for all of Day 2.

[shraeye]

f.DS mafia players, as a whole, have zero respect for V/LA.  I refuse to vote for a case on anyone due to V/LA circumstances.  Not available=not available, not a scum tactic.

[mcmcsalot]

Well hmm you would be without a town power role/ic if you it wasn't for shraeye. A position I would not have been in if some more townies were around at deadline. Like I said if shraeye is scum there were 2 townies on at deadline so screw it I'm giving the win to shraeye.

Why in the hell would the other fool not claim. Our power is one shot, claiming makes you an ic and then you can use you power and give us results. Also robz vig is not likely to hit town when with power roles alone we are at 3 unconfirmed town/2 scum. Also what rock are you living under they want to keep me because they have the suicide power? Because a 1 for 1 trade is always good for scum right. Also the dayvig is not a typical kill, we seethe flip before a lynch or a scum nk. Killing a townie with it isn't the worst thing in the world.

We have 7 alive. If we vigged 2 townies it's 3/2 and two of those town are Ic's whic means there is 1 town 2 scum. I'm guessing we can lynch scum that way leaving us with 2/1 again one town is ic so we have a 50% chance of hitting scum.

That's if both dayvigs hit town...you think that's good for scum.

If investigation gets 2 town results(these cannot be trusted)
It's 5/2 with two Ic's 3/2 then even if we hit scum 4/1 with one ic so 3/1 not a good chance to hit scum. So I don't see how vig is bad it speeds the game up at worst and kills scum at best.

Robz is pretty high up my list of people to vig now but still need to wait for the other power role to claim because oh yea I like narrowing our pool of potential scum.

[mcmcsalot]

In case anyone is confused--though how you could be is baffling to me--shraeye and mail-mi are the most obvious scum pair in scum history, and Eevee was their dupe. Don't let them win.

Yeah, exactly as "obvious" as that scum-eevee who first defended mail-mi.  i hope you see exactly how absurd this sounds, and I hope others do too.

I would answer you but I have a convenient VLA for all of Day 2.

Your super helpful. Robz is scum with suicide and wants me to dayvig we should most likely save out lynch for him and I wi vig the scummier of who's left out of efhw,Jimm,mail-mi after one of them claims pr. Even neighborize should claim, the ic is better than talking to someone who's alignment you don't know.

[shraeye]

Don't just wait for PR claim.  I want to hear more from Jimmm, who got very busy yesterday.  And definitely we need more from mail-mi.

[Robz888]

Well hmm you would be without a town power role/ic if you it wasn't for shraeye. A position I would not have been in if some more townies were around at deadline. Like I said if shraeye is scum there were 2 townies on at deadline so screw it I'm giving the win to shraeye.

Why in the hell would the other fool not claim. Our power is one shot, claiming makes you an ic and then you can use you power and give us results. Also robz vig is not likely to hit town when with power roles alone we are at 3 unconfirmed town/2 scum. Also what rock are you living under they want to keep me because they have the suicide power? Because a 1 for 1 trade is always good for scum right. Also the dayvig is not a typical kill, we seethe flip before a lynch or a scum nk. Killing a townie with it isn't the worst thing in the world.

We have 7 alive. If we vigged 2 townies it's 3/2 and two of those town are Ic's whic means there is 1 town 2 scum. I'm guessing we can lynch scum that way leaving us with 2/1 again one town is ic so we have a 50% chance of hitting scum.

That's if both dayvigs hit town...you think that's good for scum.

If investigation gets 2 town results(these cannot be trusted)
It's 5/2 with two Ic's 3/2 then even if we hit scum 4/1 with one ic so 3/1 not a good chance to hit scum. So I don't see how vig is bad it speeds the game up at worst and kills scum at best.

Robz is pretty high up my list of people to vig now but still need to wait for the other power role to claim because oh yea I like narrowing our pool of potential scum.

First of all, the other person might not be able to claim, it could be mail mi who isn't playing, or it could be Jimm who is on Australia time.

Why give the win to shraeye for playing textbook scum? And obviously he'd much rather have you alive, having won your trust, so that you can kill some townies. He would rather have you alive, on his side, shooting townies. He prefers that to lynching you, yes, absolutely.

[Robz888]

Oh brother, you are scum shraeye's dupe right now.

[shraeye]

Oh brother, you are scum shraeye's dupe right now.

Appeal to Emotion.  make an argument that doesn't involve mail-mi being V/LA.

[Robz888]

Oh brother, you are scum shraeye's dupe right now.

Appeal to Emotion.  make an argument that doesn't involve mail-mi being V/LA.

Don't tell me what to do, scum.

[Robz888]

Shoot me, lynch me, do whatever you want. This is the stupidest game ever.

[mcmcsalot]

Oh brother, you are scum shraeye's dupe right now.

He had no idea I would have taken this stance post night actions.

When is the next deadline. You say Jimm won't be around why is that?

Mail-mi, Jimm, efhw need to get here soon and claim pr. In the meantime I suggest we continue deciding who is scum there.

I think robz/efhw/mail-mi are scummy Jimm did some typical town Jimm stuff early. I do think efhw is scummy due to how the end of day went down.

[mcmcsalot]

Shoot me, lynch me, do whatever you want. This is the stupidest game ever.

Don't play it then, not like you were around to help it at deadline.

Truly hoping you are scum attempting to make me snap vig you, so most definitely my lynch target.

You understand if you are town the best move is to continue to convince me of scum!shraeye's motives and not just give up. I've made quote a few posts to argue against your reasoning and you have yet to respond with anything that is believable to me.

[shraeye]

I think robz/efhw/mail-mi are scummy Jimm did some typical town Jimm stuff early. I do think efhw is scummy due to how the end of day went down.

EFHW's stance on RVS made me think town, and her response why she felt that way.  She seemed genuinely worried about giving scum an easy case to pin on her.  I don't see what you see regarding the end-of-day stuff.

I am unable to assess jimmmm/mail-mi until they come back.  could you explain jimmm's town stuff to me?

[Robz888]

And obviously he'd much rather have you alive, having won your trust, so that you can kill some townies. He would rather have you alive, on his side, shooting townies. He prefers that to lynching you, yes, absolutely.

[shraeye]

you are scum attempting to make me snap vig you

This is my current thought.  Don't snap-vig anyone, please.

[Robz888]

Oh brother, you are scum shraeye's dupe right now.

He had no idea I would have taken this stance post night actions.

He's played you like a fiddle, and you are being unbelievably gullible.

[Robz888]

you are scum attempting to make me snap vig you

This is my current thought.  Don't snap-vig anyone, please.

Your puppet master agrees!

[mcmcsalot]

I think robz/efhw/mail-mi are scummy Jimm did some typical town Jimm stuff early. I do think efhw is scummy due to how the end of day went down.

EFHW's stance on RVS made me think town, and her response why she felt that way.  She seemed genuinely worried about giving scum an easy case to pin on her.  I don't see what you see regarding the end-of-day stuff.

I am unable to assess jimmmm/mail-mi until they come back.  could you explain jimmm's town stuff to me?

If you read Jimm's rvs and the rvs he has been part of for the past few games he rapid votes multiple people trying to get out of rvs as town, like almost identical opening posts in his town games.

At the end efhw left her vote on me when she said she saw the case on eevee that it had merit. i also asked her directy why she voted for me because she didnt really give a reason and i wanted to try and convince her i was town(i still had time to talk my way out of the lynch) but then she just left with 30 min to deadline.

[mcmcsalot]

you are scum attempting to make me snap vig you

This is my current thought.  Don't snap-vig anyone, please.

Your puppet master agrees!

Because I was TOTALY GOING TO before he said that... oh wait I said you were trying to get me to snap vig, since when is agreeing with someone being a puppet master.

[mcmcsalot]

And obviously he'd much rather have you alive, having won your trust, so that you can kill some townies. He would rather have you alive, on his side, shooting townies. He prefers that to lynching you, yes, absolutely.

I said he had no way of knowing I would take this stance after the lynch went through. I didn't say if you guys save me you automatically town. I said if your town you need to help spare me but that doesn't mean I would make them Ic's post lynch.

Also you keep saying he wants me shooting townies as I showed in my post which you didn't acknowledge even hitting a townie with the vig improves our chance of lynching scum.

[shraeye]

I think robz/efhw/mail-mi are scummy Jimm did some typical town Jimm stuff early. I do think efhw is scummy due to how the end of day went down.

EFHW's stance on RVS made me think town, and her response why she felt that way.  She seemed genuinely worried about giving scum an easy case to pin on her.  I don't see what you see regarding the end-of-day stuff.

I am unable to assess jimmmm/mail-mi until they come back.  could you explain jimmm's town stuff to me?

If you read Jimm's rvs and the rvs he has been part of for the past few games he rapid votes multiple people trying to get out of rvs as town, like almost identical opening posts in his town games.

Hmm, do you have any examples of him not doing this when he was scum?  I can't remember any games where Jimmm was scum, recent or not.

[mcmcsalot]

Deadline is 11am on the 25th so everyone knows, this game has 24 hour deadljnes(I'm assuming insom is going of each deadline not the day start

[mcmcsalot]

@shraeye I thought I found one but I will double check.

[Robz888]

And obviously he'd much rather have you alive, having won your trust, so that you can kill some townies. He would rather have you alive, on his side, shooting townies. He prefers that to lynching you, yes, absolutely.

I said he had no way of knowing I would take this stance after the lynch went through. I didn't say if you guys save me you automatically town. I said if your town you need to help spare me but that doesn't mean I would make them Ic's post lynch.

Also you keep saying he wants me shooting townies as I showed in my post which you didn't acknowledge even hitting a townie with the vig improves our chance of lynching scum.

Yes, he could have reasonably assumed saving you would be such a pro-town thing to do he would get a free pass from you. God knows we are awarding enough free passes around here.

Hitting a townie with the vig improves our chance of lynching scum, but brings us precipitously closer to losing the game. Do you realize that if you don't shoot and we mislynch, we are in MYLO? We have 7 people left now. If you shoot wrong and we lynch wrong, we lose before we even see Day 3.

[mcmcsalot]

And obviously he'd much rather have you alive, having won your trust, so that you can kill some townies. He would rather have you alive, on his side, shooting townies. He prefers that to lynching you, yes, absolutely.

I said he had no way of knowing I would take this stance after the lynch went through. I didn't say if you guys save me you automatically town. I said if your town you need to help spare me but that doesn't mean I would make them Ic's post lynch.

Also you keep saying he wants me shooting townies as I showed in my post which you didn't acknowledge even hitting a townie with the vig improves our chance of lynching scum.

Yes, he could have reasonably assumed saving you would be such a pro-town thing to do he would get a free pass from you. God knows we are awarding enough free passes around here.

Hitting a townie with the vig improves our chance of lynching scum, but brings us precipitously closer to losing the game. Do you realize that if you don't shoot and we mislynch, we are in MYLO? We have 7 people left now. If you shoot wrong and we lynch wrong, we lose before we even see Day 3.

Yes if I shoot wrong and we lynch wrong we are at 3/2 tomorrow, which is mylo. If I don't shoot and we lynch wrong we are at 4/2 oh lookie also mylo....... Except we have worse chances of finding scum. So you see how no matter who I shoot shooting increases our chances.

[Robz888]

And obviously he'd much rather have you alive, having won your trust, so that you can kill some townies. He would rather have you alive, on his side, shooting townies. He prefers that to lynching you, yes, absolutely.

I said he had no way of knowing I would take this stance after the lynch went through. I didn't say if you guys save me you automatically town. I said if your town you need to help spare me but that doesn't mean I would make them Ic's post lynch.

Also you keep saying he wants me shooting townies as I showed in my post which you didn't acknowledge even hitting a townie with the vig improves our chance of lynching scum.

Yes, he could have reasonably assumed saving you would be such a pro-town thing to do he would get a free pass from you. God knows we are awarding enough free passes around here.

Hitting a townie with the vig improves our chance of lynching scum, but brings us precipitously closer to losing the game. Do you realize that if you don't shoot and we mislynch, we are in MYLO? We have 7 people left now. If you shoot wrong and we lynch wrong, we lose before we even see Day 3.

Yes if I shoot wrong and we lynch wrong we are at 3/2 tomorrow, which is mylo. If I don't shoot and we lynch wrong we are at 4/2 oh lookie also mylo....... Except we have worse chances of finding scum. So you see how no matter who I shoot shooting increases our chances.

False!!! False!!! If you shoot wrong and we lynch wrong WE ALREADY LOSE, no mylo tomorrow. You shoot wrong, 6 people left, we lynch wrong, 5 people left, scum shoot, 4 people left and half scum, game over.

[Robz888]

Well? Do you see that, bro? Do you see why shraeye wants to manipulate you into a misfire?

[Robz888]

Look, I am convinced beyond any reasonable doubt that it's mail-mi and shraeye. So here, go ahead, shoot one of them. If I'm wrong (I'm not), go ahead and lynch me.

[shraeye]

It looks like this to me (forgetting for a moment that there are two fools):

shoot wrong, lynch wrong = 2v2 on day 3.  at best we have 2 and 2 at lynches, hidden democracy also split.  I think that results in no lynch and a loss?

shoot wrong, lynch right = mylo on day 3, 3 town and 1 scum

shoot right, lynch wrong = lylo on day 3; 2 town and 1 scum.

shoot right, lynch right = win

But what if mcmcsalot holds back the shot (hence losing it forever)

lynch wrong day 2, wrong day3 = scum win

lynch right day 2, wrong day3 = 2 town, 1 scum lylo

lynch wrong day2 right day3 = 2 town, 1 scum lylo

lynch right day2, right day3 = win

Conclusion
if we think of mcmcs vig-shot as another lynch, these scenarios mirror eachotehr perfectly, so we don't win or lose anything on the mylo/lylo front.

[mcmcsalot]

Look, I am convinced beyond any reasonable doubt that it's mail-mi and shraeye. So here, go ahead, shoot one of them. If I'm wrong (I'm not), go ahead and lynch me.

You are correct,  I was wrong in my math. This does mean keeping me is a smart choice and makes it more likely shraeye is scum. There is a reason I am not snap vigging anyone. I can vig town and then we just need to lynch scum. So I still think we need to have the other or claim and get more people talking. Regardless of the v/la mail-mi is lurking too much for a blitz game so we will see how things go as the day moves on.

There is nothing left productive to be said from me/shraeye/robz but I'm glad you calmed down and explained things to me.

So why are you so sure shraeye/mail-mi are scum. I mean even if mail-mi used that as a ploy clearly eevee was fooled into protecting him who's to say shraeye isn't.

Also is mail-mi being Vla for a day obviously a scum tactic, or could he be telling the truth. I mean it certainly is not so certain.

[Robz888]

By the way, I am NOT saying that mcmc shouldn't shoot. I was just pushing back against the idea that there is nothing to lose from shooting, or that shooting is good even if it hits town.

[mcmcsalot]

Okay here we go.

Shooting(suicide)
5/2 shoot wrong 4/2 lynch wrong 2/2 we lose
5/2 shoot wrong 4/2 lynch right 3/1 mylo
5/2 shoot right 5/1(4/1) lynch wrong 3/1(2/1) mylo

Not shooting
5/2 lynch wrong 3/2 mylo
5/2 lynch right 4/1 lynch wrong 2/1 mylo

No matter what if we lynch wrong today we are at mylo. If I shoot wrong as well we lose.

The best cases are if we lynch right and lynch wrong.
If I shoot right and blow up and lynch wrong.

If I shoot right and don't blow up its actually bad for us.
Pretty sure shooting is a bad idea.

[mcmcsalot]

Yep if I shoot right and don't die we are at 5/1 and a wrong lynch is 3/1
If we just lynch that person we are at 4/2 and then a wrong lynch is 2/1 much better.

[Jimmmmm]

Okay, I'm here. Still at work, but it's 4am so there's not a lot happening. I knew deadline was coming up and I really wanted to have some sort of contribution, but that was during the busy part of the night and I just couldn't give this game priority over work that I had to do.

I'm always very uneasy about calling anyone "confirmed" Town when they haven't been. I believe mcmc is Town, and will continue to believe so unless we get two other Fool claims. But mcmc's claim came 3 minutes before the thread was locked. If scum was around at that point in time they had to make a snap decision. And I'm sure they would have wanted to kill mcmc. But only 2 possible scum posted after mcmc's claim, and if mcmc was killed overnight they would have received a heck of a lot of scrutiny. I mean yeah, scum might have killed mcmc in that situation. But that's certainly a long way from certain. So maybe they get Town points for that. But I'm certainly not treating them as confirmed Town, and if I think they're scum, that one thing isn't going to sway me from lynching them.

[mcmcsalot]

Shooting wrong is 4/2 mylo then 2/1 mylo
Lynching wrong is 3/2 mylo then 2/1 mylo

[mcmcsalot]

Okay, I'm here. Still at work, but it's 4am so there's not a lot happening. I knew deadline was coming up and I really wanted to have some sort of contribution, but that was during the busy part of the night and I just couldn't give this game priority over work that I had to do.

I'm always very uneasy about calling anyone "confirmed" Town when they haven't been. I believe mcmc is Town, and will continue to believe so unless we get two other Fool claims. But mcmc's claim came 3 minutes before the thread was locked. If scum was around at that point in time they had to make a snap decision. And I'm sure they would have wanted to kill mcmc. But only 2 possible scum posted after mcmc's claim, and if mcmc was killed overnight they would have received a heck of a lot of scrutiny. I mean yeah, scum might have killed mcmc in that situation. But that's certainly a long way from certain. So maybe they get Town points for that. But I'm certainly not treating them as confirmed Town, and if I think they're scum, that one thing isn't going to sway me from lynching them.

Yea I understand I was wrong I was razzled from that deadline rush.

[Jimmmmm]

Fair enough, looks like it was pretty hectic.

[Jimmmmm]

shoot wrong, lynch wrong = 2v2 on day 3.  at best we have 2 and 2 at lynches, hidden democracy also split.  I think that results in no lynch and a loss?

2v2 is a loss since the Witches only need to make up half the Town.

[shraeye]

I would prefer that you shoot, mcmc.  According to my calculations, shoot/lynch is the same as lynch/lynch.  Except one scenario where shooting gives 3/1 and lynching gives 2/1 (I consider those two the same, since no-lynches don't happen in blitz.)

I was thinking about why yuma died; I know that the longer he stays around the more suspicious I get of him, because I know him to be a very clever scumplayer.  However, he is also very dangerous as town.  I don't recall him fingering anybody with quite as much emphasis as others, so I could see him being killed solely because the scum team knows how dangerous he is as town.  This causes me to think that at least one vet is on the scumteam (robz or jimmm).  I don't think that the team is mail-mi/EFHW, for example.

Also, unless more claims/evidence can convince me otherwise, I'm thinking of mcmcsalot and spiritbears as town.

[Robz888]

I would prefer that you shoot, mcmc.  According to my calculations, shoot/lynch is the same as lynch/lynch.  Except one scenario where shooting gives 3/1 and lynching gives 2/1 (I consider those two the same, since no-lynches don't happen in blitz.)

I was thinking about why yuma died; I know that the longer he stays around the more suspicious I get of him, because I know him to be a very clever scumplayer.  However, he is also very dangerous as town.  I don't recall him fingering anybody with quite as much emphasis as others, so I could see him being killed solely because the scum team knows how dangerous he is as town.  This causes me to think that at least one vet is on the scumteam (robz or jimmm).  I don't think that the team is mail-mi/EFHW, for example.

Also, unless more claims/evidence can convince me otherwise, I'm thinking of mcmcsalot and spiritbears as town.

Don't want to talk about ongoing games, but mail-mi has had a chance to see awesome town yuma.

[mcmcsalot]

I would prefer that you shoot, mcmc.  According to my calculations, shoot/lynch is the same as lynch/lynch.  Except one scenario where shooting gives 3/1 and lynching gives 2/1 (I consider those two the same, since no-lynches don't happen in blitz.)

I was thinking about why yuma died; I know that the longer he stays around the more suspicious I get of him, because I know him to be a very clever scumplayer.  However, he is also very dangerous as town.  I don't recall him fingering anybody with quite as much emphasis as others, so I could see him being killed solely because the scum team knows how dangerous he is as town.  This causes me to think that at least one vet is on the scumteam (robz or jimmm).  I don't think that the team is mail-mi/EFHW, for example.

Also, unless more claims/evidence can convince me otherwise, I'm thinking of mcmcsalot and spiritbears as town.

2/1(33%) is much better odds than 3/1(25%)

So me shooting really only hurts us. Now if there is another fool with a vig it would be great.

Then we could both shoot:
Wrong: 5/2 - 4/2 - 3/2 mylo
Right: 5/2 - 5/1 - 4/1 lynch wrong 2/1
Right(suicide) 5/2- 4/1 - 3/1 mylo

The above scenario is what is worth it, if we correct shoot with suicide its just a lynch.
So again the other power role has to claim to see if we should shoot. Because two wrong shots is = to a mislynch but we pick the scummy people.
 

[shraeye]

mmm, ok.  I'm sorta checked out of other games, so I retract my previous statement.

[mcmcsalot]

If I am the only vig I am not shooting, if there are two we should both shoot end of story.

[Jimmmmm]

I agree that shooting is way better if both Fools do it.

[Jimmmmm]

Re-read Robz, getting some weird vibes off him. I mean, Robz plays weirdly as Town, so it could just be that. But, I don't know. All the certainty he's throwing around is weird. I guess if he's Town we have to respect his reads to some extent, so it would seem unlikely that all of {Robz, shraeye, mail-mi} are Town.

[shraeye]

What stuck out as weird-vibe-ish?

[EFHW]

@mcmc, congrats on your survival (that's not sarcastic).  I wasn't watching, I disconnected as soon as I said good-bye.  The "who's online" thingy says people are on for awhile after they aren't.  I won't say anything else now until I've caught up.

[Jimmmmm]

shraeye, what are your current thoughts on Robz? You were all over him for quite a while, and then you seemed to forget about him, saying you were worried about an Eevee/spirit scumteam, and today while you've engage with him you haven't mentioned him other than in relation to being a vet and you suspecting vets.

[Robz888]

@mcmc, congrats on your survival (that's not sarcastic).  I wasn't watching, I disconnected as soon as I said good-bye.  The "who's online" thingy says people are on for awhile after they aren't.  I won't say anything else now until I've caught up.

This is not true, and is something I have said as scum. I've said exactly that.

Hmm.

[EFHW]

Oh i am very saddened by the town in robz/jimm/ehw/mai-mi pay attention to the deadline jimm was around but obviously busy but clearly he had no idea the deadline was so soon(or is scum) same with efhw. Just careless to say yea i'll be back in a couple hours cuz i'm busy but in the meantime before I'm busy I'm not going to give any helpful thoughts toward the final lynch.

I had to go to a funeral, Ok?  I said well in advance that I wouldn't be available. 

Be glad you survived and show us your power.

[spiritbears]

I would prefer that you shoot, mcmc.  According to my calculations, shoot/lynch is the same as lynch/lynch.  Except one scenario where shooting gives 3/1 and lynching gives 2/1 (I consider those two the same, since no-lynches don't happen in blitz.)

I was thinking about why yuma died; I know that the longer he stays around the more suspicious I get of him, because I know him to be a very clever scumplayer.  However, he is also very dangerous as town.  I don't recall him fingering anybody with quite as much emphasis as others, so I could see him being killed solely because the scum team knows how dangerous he is as town.  This causes me to think that at least one vet is on the scumteam (robz or jimmm).  I don't think that the team is mail-mi/EFHW, for example.

Also, unless more claims/evidence can convince me otherwise, I'm thinking of mcmcsalot and spiritbears as town.

I generally agree with this statement.  I did find it problematic that you were (rather forcefully) directing Mc to shoot me, about the same time I saves him.  But you're plea for town Eevee did help convince me not to vote Eevee (unfortunately that wasn't enough to save him).  So I generally agree that that Shyrae and MC are likely town (not 100% sure but convincingly). 
I am getting concerned about Mai's absence extending into 2 days and Robz rather abrupt change of pace confuses me.  I think Efhw is more likely the town out of those three...and I don't follow MC's argument about his failure to remove the vote.  It was a frantic deadline and I'm wiing to cut him a little slack.

[Jimmmmm]

i don't think the thing about mail-mi is scummy at allll.

Why not? Gotta bail out your scumbuddy?

I dont think inventing a VLA to bail out from posting is a likely scum strategy for mailmi or anyone really. Not a town tell either, just null.

You're wrong. It is obviously a scum strategy, we've seen it in practice as a scum strategy, and more specifically it fits mail-mi, who is clumsy as scum. So you're just super wrong. But are you scum trying to buddy a townie, or are you sticking your neck out for scumpartner?

I say mail-mi gets a tech-free Tuesday pass.  If he's as clumsy as you claim he is, Robz, then we should be able to catch him easily on subsequent days.

K, next time I am scum, I will tell my partner to preemptively vanish for Day 1, and then I will say "he gets a free pass!" and no one better stop me.

But if your partner next time is somebody like yuma who is very sneaky, I would not be giving the same pass.  You gotta consider context.

Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong I think yuma is LESS likely to try that, because yuma can play a good scum game from the driver's seat. Mail-mi, maybe he can't, or doesn't think he can.

So Robz is sure mail-mi is scum?

Not sure what else would explain the tone.

I'm more sure you are scum, covering and apologizing for scum or scummy play.

Mailmi: Scum or at the very least super scummy

Shraeye and Eevee: Legitimately wrong on point of fact, covering for scummy player, militantly covering for scummy player. Why?

So now I think moreso one of you two are scum.

I guess just the mix of his seeming certain about people being scum and being what seems to be unnecessarily aggressive. I'm not sure aggressive is the right word though, just loud maybe? He was arguing that someone is using being V/LA to cover for being scum, and while that's possible there's no real evidence that it's true in this case. So jumping down people's throats for disagreeing with him on that seems strange.

[shraeye]

shraeye, what are your current thoughts on Robz? You were all over him for quite a while, and then you seemed to forget about him, saying you were worried about an Eevee/spirit scumteam, and today while you've engage with him you haven't mentioned him other than in relation to being a vet and you suspecting vets.

His heavy handed attack on me (for exactly the same reasons he suspected Eevee, which ended up being false) looks really suspicious.  I'm likely to vote for him but need to get a better feel for you and mailmi first.  spiritbears' actions at the end of the day yesterday caused me to really suspect him, and it looked like he was showing real hesitance to turn mcmc's lynch into an eevee-lynch.  I started seeing pairs, and felt really confident come lynchtime.

Robz is currently my leading suspect for the day, but I need to give many possibilities consideration, as I hate it when I inadvertantly tunnel in on people and end up ignoring important signs/tendencies of other players.

[mcmcsalot]

Okay so last thoughts now that everyone but mail-mi has talked.

The other fool must claim.

If you are a cop: you can use it on whoever you think is scum, if you get a scum result cool we lynch and are at 6/1(2 mislynch to 2/1), I will not shoot. If you get a town result we should all disregard it as it is not trustworthy.

If you are neighborizer: you can claim your neighbor or not either way claim so that we have a second IC, I will not shoot.

If you are vig: we will coordinate to shoot the town's first lynch target, if it is scum with suicide the other person does not shoot we are at 6/1(2 mislynch to 2/1), if it is scum with no suicide the other person shoots the second lynch target for a win or 6/1(2 mislynch to 2/1). Worst case scenario is the first shot hits town and the second shot hits a scum suicide, but it still leaves us at 5/1 one mislynch to 3/1.

Scum cannot counter claim because my claim is provable with a vig. If you claim cop and are counter claimed we lynch you both for 6/1 or 4/1. Both scenarios are good. If you claim neighborizor and are counter claimed even better, neighbors claim(scum partner) and we lynch 1 claim then the other then the partners for a win(town, scum, scum).

That being said noone should counter claim and we should have to IC's as soon as possible. We are the looking at a 5 man scum pool and take the above actions. I want this out now and if mail-mi is not here please have a prod

[EFHW]

• I agree with shraeye about there being a vet on the team. 
• I think Robz is fighting really hard against a small threat including getting personal about it ("puppet master").
• I think Spiritbears is either the other fool or scum.  He is new enough that he probably wouldn't have thought thru changing his vote that fast, especially if he is paired with a vet who wasn't on.  I agree with Jimmmmm about confirming people as town and think mcmc's POE is dangerous.  Spiritbears said we'd "regret" lynching him, which is why I say he might be the other fool. 
• mail-mi, I don't know.  He got lynched for lurking his first game.  It made him very skittish.  I don't think he'd make that mistake again.

[EFHW]

The other fool must claim.

It is also safe to claim because you will use your power before the next nightkill.

[EFHW]

I take that back.  It's safe to claim vig.  The neighborizer benefit would continue to future days.

[Jimmmmm]

I actually think changing the kill to mcmc is something a newbie scum is much more likely to be rash enough to do than a vet.

[EFHW]

I actually think changing the kill to mcmc is something a newbie scum is much more likely to be rash enough to do than a vet.

As a relative newbie still, I know I would hesitate if my vet partner had decided on someone else.

[EFHW]

Hypothetically, would someone (I mean Robz) provoke a vig kill if it took the vig with him?

[Jimmmmm]

I don't think so. 1-1 trades are generally fairly bad for scum. I think scum would much rather a Townie was shot.

[EFHW]

In that case, POE leads me to a Jimmmmm mail-mi team.  WIFOM leads me to a Robz - somebody team.  I've never played with Shraeye.  He seems towny to me, but I don't have anything to compare with.

[Jimmmmm]

How does PoE lead you to mail-mi/me? I don't mean to say a Newbie would necessarily change to killing mcmc of course, it's just a blunder they would be more likely to make than a vet, I think.

[Insomniac]

Prod Sent

(Vote Count Incoming)

[Insomniac]

Vote Count 2-1

mail-mi (1) - Robz

Not Voting (6) - Jimmmmm, Mcmcsalot, Shraeye, EFHW, Spiritbears, Mail-Mi

Deadline is 8:15am PDT April 25 (11:15am forum time EDT)

[EFHW]

How does PoE lead you to mail-mi/me? I don't mean to say a Newbie would necessarily change to killing mcmc of course, it's just a blunder they would be more likely to make than a vet, I think.

If Robz is just bring provocative, spirit is fool and shraeye is town.  But if Robz is doing wifom then he cld be scum.  Also, no one had suspected you much, would be gd to sees everyone's thoughts on the matter.

[mail-mi]

Sorry guys I should really get into this game more. However, this will probably be my one and only blitz game because I just don't have the access. Tried to get one post in right before school for day 1, but slept in.

[shraeye]

Sorry guys I should really get into this game more. However, this will probably be my one and only blitz game because I just don't have the access. Tried to get one post in right before school for day 1, but slept in.

Well now's your chance.  I'll wait for you to make a report.  Read up, comment as much as possible.  It's now your responsibility to insert yourself into the conversations/arguments we've been having for the last day.  Of course, you could just avoid everything, post nothing, and you WILL be lynched for that.

[mail-mi]

Okay my reads so far (just got to the end of D1):

Yuma and Eevee are pretty towny (duh)
mcmc claimed fool (why would he do that if he isn't fool?)
SB could go either way, same with Jimmmmmm
Robz is acting pretty scummy
Shraeye sorta scummy

Did I miss anyone? So, in conclusion, Robz is my prefered lynch.

[mail-mi]

Oh yeah, missed EFHW. She's right under robz in scumminess

[mail-mi]

Okay so last thoughts now that everyone but mail-mi has talked.

The other fool must claim.

If you are a cop: you can use it on whoever you think is scum, if you get a scum result cool we lynch and are at 6/1(2 mislynch to 2/1), I will not shoot. If you get a town result we should all disregard it as it is not trustworthy.

If you are neighborizer: you can claim your neighbor or not either way claim so that we have a second IC, I will not shoot.

If you are vig: we will coordinate to shoot the town's first lynch target, if it is scum with suicide the other person does not shoot we are at 6/1(2 mislynch to 2/1), if it is scum with no suicide the other person shoots the second lynch target for a win or 6/1(2 mislynch to 2/1). Worst case scenario is the first shot hits town and the second shot hits a scum suicide, but it still leaves us at 5/1 one mislynch to 3/1.

Scum cannot counter claim because my claim is provable with a vig. If you claim cop and are counter claimed we lynch you both for 6/1 or 4/1. Both scenarios are good. If you claim neighborizor and are counter claimed even better, neighbors claim(scum partner) and we lynch 1 claim then the other then the partners for a win(town, scum, scum).

That being said noone should counter claim and we should have to IC's as soon as possible. We are the looking at a 5 man scum pool and take the above actions. I want this out now and if mail-mi is not here please have a prod

I am the other fool. I chose neighborizer.

[Jimmmmm]

Well that's certainly verifiable. Why Neighbouriser? Are you going to say any more about whether you've used it or who you plan to use it on?

[mail-mi]

Well that's certainly verifiable. Why Neighbouriser? Are you going to say any more about whether you've used it or who you plan to use it on?

I thought having a neighbor to chat with throughout the game would be helpful to town. Didn't plan on being absent the whole first day. I haven't used it yet. I'm not sure if I should share who I plan to use it on.

[mail-mi]

I finally get on and no one else is on? That makes me sad. 

[mcmcsalot]

Okay so mcmc, mail-mi town. Jimm, robz, shraeye, spirit, efhw is our scum pool. 3/2 in there if I had to say now I would say efhw, robz.

[mail-mi]

Okay so mcmc, mail-mi town. Jimm, robz, shraeye, spirit, efhw is our scum pool. 3/2 in there if I had to say now I would say efhw, robz.

Agree totally with this.

[shraeye]

I'm very interested in Robz's opinion.  I'd like to know where you think we should go next, if you do indeed believe mail-mi's claim.

[Robz888]

I believe it. No one counterclaimed him. Why would I not believe it?

[shraeye]

I believe it. No one counterclaimed him. Why would I not believe it?

I asked about what we should do next, not if you believe mail-mi.

[mail-mi]

I believe it. No one counterclaimed him. Why would I not believe it?

If you believe me, can you please take your vote off me?

[shraeye]

vote: Robz

[mail-mi]

May not beable to get on again before deadline (blitz games are definitely not for me), so I think I'll leave my vote on vote: robz

[Insomniac]

Vote Count 2-2

mail-mi (1) - Robz
Robz888 (2) - Shraeye, Mail-Mi

Not Voting (4) - Jimmmmm, Mcmcsalot, EFHW, Spiritbears

Deadline is 8:15am PDT April 25 (11:15am forum time EDT)

[mcmcsalot]

So first off if anyone it actually the other town fool claim now it is the last time you will ever be believed.

[mcmcsalot]

Secondly robz has been under the spot light quite a bit how do people feel about Jimm and spirit?

[shraeye]

I'm not a fool.


I could see spiritbears as mafia, but of the two mentioned, I see JImmm as more suspicious.  Spiritbears reacted rather loudly when I suspected him close to the last deadline.

[shraeye]

Buuut, spiritbears does have the merit of having not killed mcmcsalot.  I do think that counts for something.

[mcmcsalot]

Need some more content from efhw/Jimm/spirit about scum hunting now that were past rheories

[spiritbears]

I'm inclined to believe Mai's claim. Not sure I'm on the robz wagon...someone care to sell me the case?

[shraeye]

I'm inclined to believe Mai's claim. Not sure I'm on the robz wagon...someone care to sell me the case?

his insane aggressiveness towards eevee, presumably because eevee was mail-mi's scum partner covering for mailmi's "ridiculous" VLA claim.  But then I also agreed with it, and attracted less suspicion for it.  Once eevee died, Robz switched to the exact same case on me, that I was being "textbook scum" in my interactions with mailmi, and that it was silly for everyone to not see it.  Except that literally is the exact same case that had recently failed to turn up scum with regard to eevee.

Then mail-mi comes online and claims fool, which is obviously true.  I was really interested to see Robz's followup to this, since his entire case on me rests on me defending mail-mi for VLA, and covering for my "partner".  Robz has not reassessed his reads on me, nor shown any change since the mail-mi claim.

When I asked him about this, his only response is to say that "of course he believes mail-mi's claim".  But that's not the interesting part, I'm curious about how his reads are now evolving in light of new evidence.  And apparently the amount that they are evolving is 'not at all'.

This is completely unhelpful as town, but reasonable as scum.  He gets put in a difficult situation when mail-mi makes the PR claim, and his response is not to work on better scumhunting in light of evidence, it's just to clam up and say nothing.

[Robz888]

EFHW and spirit and Jimm are way too quiet. I wasn't even aware spirit was in this game, really.

[Robz888]

I'm inclined to believe Mai's claim. Not sure I'm on the robz wagon...someone care to sell me the case?

his insane aggressiveness towards eevee, presumably because eevee was mail-mi's scum partner covering for mailmi's "ridiculous" VLA claim.  But then I also agreed with it, and attracted less suspicion for it.  Once eevee died, Robz switched to the exact same case on me, that I was being "textbook scum" in my interactions with mailmi, and that it was silly for everyone to not see it.  Except that literally is the exact same case that had recently failed to turn up scum with regard to eevee.

Then mail-mi comes online and claims fool, which is obviously true.  I was really interested to see Robz's followup to this, since his entire case on me rests on me defending mail-mi for VLA, and covering for my "partner".  Robz has not reassessed his reads on me, nor shown any change since the mail-mi claim.

When I asked him about this, his only response is to say that "of course he believes mail-mi's claim".  But that's not the interesting part, I'm curious about how his reads are now evolving in light of new evidence.  And apparently the amount that they are evolving is 'not at all'.

This is completely unhelpful as town, but reasonable as scum.  He gets put in a difficult situation when mail-mi makes the PR claim, and his response is not to work on better scumhunting in light of evidence, it's just to clam up and say nothing.

I'm just sick of you getting away with your scummy behavior, it sickens me.

[shraeye]

I'm just sick of you getting away with your scummy behavior, it sickens me.

you literally have never given any reason why i might be scum that didn't hinge on mail-mi being my partner.

[Robz888]

Again, I'm still waiting for mcmc to take me up on my offer. I'm convinced enough that you are scum, if he shoots you and you're not scum, we can lynch me.

[Robz888]

I'm just sick of you getting away with your scummy behavior, it sickens me.

you literally have never given any reason why i might be scum that didn't hinge on mail-mi being my partner.

LIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES

[Robz888]

Oh that's such a ridiculous lie.

[shraeye]

Oh that's such a ridiculous lie.

How about prove this statement, instead of just capslock-yelling?

[Robz888]

Yours and Eevee's defense of mail-mi was scummy, independent of mail-mi being scum. What mail-mi did was bad and wrong and it was right to suspect me, and you and Eevee both had this totally ridiculous reaction to it, you even propogated the wholly insane "free pass" nonsense. I pegged you--correctly--as a scum trying to make a friend in mail-mi (if mail-mi wasn't your scumpartner). And I was right.

Whatever, but when this game is over, don't you dare for one second gloat that you fooled everyone.

[Robz888]

Shraeye is a liar.

[mcmcsalot]

Again, I'm still waiting for mcmc to take me up on my offer. I'm convinced enough that you are scum, if he shoots you and you're not scum, we can lynch me.

mail-mi is not a vig, I am not shooting anyone. If I would take your offer and end up 2/1 rather than 3/1.
But I agree I want jimm and efhw contributing, I willbe up at 7:30 and will be able to participate through deadline to mae sure we know what were doing. I expect as many that can be on then do it, if you can't inform us with enough time to decide what best to do with your vote.

[Robz888]

Here's where I explain my position on you, mail-mi, and Eevee. Eevee and mail-mi are playing the world's worst town game. There's no way you are, too.

My thought process was clear, simple and easy to follow. Each thing stemmed naturally from the thing before it. Mailmi was scummy, Eevee defended him, I concluded he was protecting his partner or buddying town which made Eevee scum, the you did the same thing, now I am where I am at.

Maybe what colors this is that I have done those things as scummy? I have gone all out to defend my buddy early, and I have also buddied town uncontrollably. Ive done it in Blitz. So I'm on the lookout for that.

[shraeye]

Yours and Eevee's defense of mail-mi was scummy, independent of mail-mi being scum. What mail-mi did was bad and wrong and it was right to suspect me, and you and Eevee both had this totally ridiculous reaction to it, you even propogated the wholly insane "free pass" nonsense.

My stance on post-counts/availability/vacation/limited access is known.  I think people reaching for post-counts to make a case or to decide who is scummy is absurd and just poor, lazy scumhunting.  People attacking others for "lurking" when limited access is an issue crosses a line that should never have been crossed.  f.DS has a terrible meta for exactly this reason, that you seem to legitimately believe that giving mail-mi a free pass was wrong, when he had a 100% valid reason for not being available yesterday.

[Robz888]

Again, I'm still waiting for mcmc to take me up on my offer. I'm convinced enough that you are scum, if he shoots you and you're not scum, we can lynch me.

mail-mi is not a vig, I am not shooting anyone. If I would take your offer and end up 2/1 rather than 3/1.
But I agree I want jimm and efhw contributing, I willbe up at 7:30 and will be able to participate through deadline to mae sure we know what were doing. I expect as many that can be on then do it, if you can't inform us with enough time to decide what best to do with your vote.

I will not be online in the morning before deadline. I never post on the forums before noon.

Free pass, please.

[mcmcsalot]

Shraeye is a liar.

Yours and Eevee's defense of mail-mi was scummy, independent of mail-mi being scum. What mail-mi did was bad and wrong and it was right to suspect me, and you and Eevee both had this totally ridiculous reaction to it, you even propogated the wholly insane "free pass" nonsense. I pegged you--correctly--as a scum trying to make a friend in mail-mi (if mail-mi wasn't your scumpartner). And I was right.

Whatever, but when this game is over, don't you dare for one second gloat that you fooled everyone.

chill, make your arguments at why hes scum not personal, go read your pledge.

[mcmcsalot]

Again, I'm still waiting for mcmc to take me up on my offer. I'm convinced enough that you are scum, if he shoots you and you're not scum, we can lynch me.

mail-mi is not a vig, I am not shooting anyone. If I would take your offer and end up 2/1 rather than 3/1.
But I agree I want jimm and efhw contributing, I willbe up at 7:30 and will be able to participate through deadline to mae sure we know what were doing. I expect as many that can be on then do it, if you can't inform us with enough time to decide what best to do with your vote.

I will not be online in the morning before deadline. I never post on the forums before noon.

Free pass, please.

Yes its understandable you never are on then, and I don't think its mandatory you do so. Do you plan on voting shraeye no matter what?

[Robz888]

Yours and Eevee's defense of mail-mi was scummy, independent of mail-mi being scum. What mail-mi did was bad and wrong and it was right to suspect me, and you and Eevee both had this totally ridiculous reaction to it, you even propogated the wholly insane "free pass" nonsense.

My stance on post-counts/availability/vacation/limited access is known.  I think people reaching for post-counts to make a case or to decide who is scummy is absurd and just poor, lazy scumhunting.  People attacking others for "lurking" when limited access is an issue crosses a line that should never have been crossed.  f.DS has a terrible meta for exactly this reason, that you seem to legitimately believe that giving mail-mi a free pass was wrong, when he had a 100% valid reason for not being available yesterday.

But town players find ways to get around their VLAs. Look at my brother. It was his birthday yesterday, he was still all over the forums. I go somewhere, I' on my phone checking stuff. Ask Eevee.

As scum in a Blitz game with a free pass, though, you don't break that VLA because it makes easier for you. And I have--in Blitz games at least--claimed I had to go somewhere when really I didn't have to. Frisk caught me doing that, once.

[Robz888]

Shraeye is a liar.

Yours and Eevee's defense of mail-mi was scummy, independent of mail-mi being scum. What mail-mi did was bad and wrong and it was right to suspect me, and you and Eevee both had this totally ridiculous reaction to it, you even propogated the wholly insane "free pass" nonsense. I pegged you--correctly--as a scum trying to make a friend in mail-mi (if mail-mi wasn't your scumpartner). And I was right.

Whatever, but when this game is over, don't you dare for one second gloat that you fooled everyone.

chill, make your arguments at why hes scum not personal, go read your pledge.

Don't wave the pledge at me, I haven't broken anything. The pledge does not immunize people from having to answer for their obvious scum play.

[Robz888]

Again, I'm still waiting for mcmc to take me up on my offer. I'm convinced enough that you are scum, if he shoots you and you're not scum, we can lynch me.

mail-mi is not a vig, I am not shooting anyone. If I would take your offer and end up 2/1 rather than 3/1.
But I agree I want jimm and efhw contributing, I willbe up at 7:30 and will be able to participate through deadline to mae sure we know what were doing. I expect as many that can be on then do it, if you can't inform us with enough time to decide what best to do with your vote.

I will not be online in the morning before deadline. I never post on the forums before noon.

Free pass, please.

Yes its understandable you never are on then, and I don't think its mandatory you do so. Do you plan on voting shraeye no matter what?

But do you see how if I were mafia I would just absolutely be taking advantage of that? That's how it works in a Blitz game.

[shraeye]

But town players find ways to get around their VLAs. Look at my brother. It was his birthday yesterday, he was still all over the forums. I go somewhere, I' on my phone checking stuff. Ask Eevee.

Not all players are the same in this regard.  I have no phone; when I go dark because I need to focus on work, I GO DARK.  This unwritten expectation that to be town one cannot be away is an anathema to keeping mafia games enjoyable.

[Robz888]

And the clincher is that shraeye used the terminology FREE PASS. Like seriously. Free pass? It's one thing to not find mail-mi scummy for it, I guess (which is what Eevee said). It's another to absolve the person entirely of criticism for it.

[Robz888]

But town players find ways to get around their VLAs. Look at my brother. It was his birthday yesterday, he was still all over the forums. I go somewhere, I' on my phone checking stuff. Ask Eevee.

Not all players are the same in this regard.  I have no phone; when I go dark because I need to focus on work, I GO DARK.  This unwritten expectation that to be town one cannot be away is an anathema to keeping mafia games enjoyable.

I'm not saying you have to always be here. I'm saying having an excuse to disappear for long amounts of times IS and HAS BEEN a tactic utilized by scum. And you said it deserves a free pass.

[shraeye]

And you said it deserves a free pass.

A valid reason for being away from the forums will always get zero suspicion from me; and it is my clear opinion that it should receive no suspicion from others.

[Robz888]

And you said it deserves a free pass.

A valid reason for being away from the forums will always get zero suspicion from me; and it is my clear opinion that it should receive no suspicion from others.

Okay, and this will cause you to lose games more often, so that's frustrating. Which makes me think you're scum.

[Robz888]

In Blitz mafia, people's VLA excuses need to be scrutinized, not waved away and chaked up to "free pass!"

In regular mafia maybe. But even then, I guarantee you that scum come up with more VLA excuses than town.

[shraeye]

In Blitz mafia, people's VLA excuses need to be scrutinized, not waved away and chaked up to "free pass!"

In regular mafia maybe. But even then, I guarantee you that scum come up with more VLA excuses than town.

So you disbelieve techno-free Tuesday?  I do not.

[Robz888]

In Blitz mafia, people's VLA excuses need to be scrutinized, not waved away and chaked up to "free pass!"

In regular mafia maybe. But even then, I guarantee you that scum come up with more VLA excuses than town.

So you disbelieve techno-free Tuesday?  I do not.

I believe it; we know mail-mi isn't scum now. He's a Neighborizer. But previously, it was ridiculous to give him a free pass for the entire first day and a half of a three day game. And it's not that I thought he was lying completely, he was just stretching his VLA to get himself as much safe time as possible.

[Robz888]

Oh, I mean to be voting for you, btw

Vote: shraeye

[spiritbears]

I don't know how you could have missed my play....oh ya, you werent around at that critical deadline

[Robz888]

I don't know how you could have missed my play....oh ya, you werent around at that critical deadline

But that's not scummy! Just ask shraeye.

[mail-mi]

These are traits of scum Robz that I have seen before.

[shraeye]

mail-mi, who are your top suspects for Robz's partner?

[mail-mi]

He's been pushing away from you so much that I'm beginning to suspect he's ur partner

And efhw. You two.

[shraeye]

He's been pushing away from you so much that I'm beginning to suspect he's ur partner

And efhw. You two.

What's your scumread on EFHW coming from?

[spiritbears]

Can we please get a vote count in here???  I'm losing track

[mail-mi]

From my quick read through, she was just acting generally scummy (no time to point out specifics)

And mcmc (conftown) and my mostly-towny reads have a scummy read on her.

[shraeye]

Vote Count 2-2

mail-mi (1) - Robz
Robz888 (2) - Shraeye, Mail-Mi

Not Voting (4) - Jimmmmm, Mcmcsalot, EFHW, Spiritbears

Deadline is 8:15am PDT April 25 (11:15am forum time EDT)

This should be accurate, with the exception that Robz moved to me.

[spiritbears]

Thanks. I feel like our choices are really thin here, I don't have a clear scum read to fall back on.

[mail-mi]

My top three lynches, in order:

1.Robz
2.EFHW
3.Shraeye

[Insomniac]

Vote Count 2-3

shraeye (1) - Robz
Robz888 (2) - Shraeye, Mail-Mi

Not Voting (4) - Jimmmmm, Mcmcsalot, EFHW, Spiritbears

Deadline is 8:15am PDT April 25 (11:15am forum time EDT)

[Robz888]

I'm voting for shraeye, not mail-mi.

[mail-mi]

Signing off for today, hope Robz is scum! (prob scum)

[Robz888]

Im not. I have a free pass.

[EFHW]

Vote: Robz

What's happening with mcmc's vig?  I wouldn't use it on Robz, and I was wrong on mcmc and Eevee, so I hesitate to recommend.  But if I had to pick, I'd say .... Ugh.  Spiritbears. 

Jimmmmm has also been very quiet, though.  Just asked me why I mentioned him as a possibility, hasn't said much else.  He hasn't done anything scummy, just not done much in general.

[EFHW]

Regarding vla, this is the internet.  We can't confirm or refute what people do.  You are free to believe or disbelieve, but I really don't think it can ever be obvious that someone is lying, unless you see them actually post somewhere else on the forum.

[EFHW]

Regarding Robz's argument about "free pass" and "good town play", I am of two minds.  I think he is right to question mail-mi's absence, and when it extended into Day 2 I was also getting suspicious.  But regarding town play, he hasn't done anything positive for town besides these arguments and insulting people.  There is more to talk about besides mail-mi's vla.  Why isn't Jimmmmm getting the same amount of heat?  Also weird, I defended mail-mi several times, never got a peep of disagreement from Robz even though he says he thinks I'm scummy.  Is he paying attn to the game?

[Jimmmmm]

I agree that I haven't done much this game. I'm reminded why I almost swore off blitz games last time; they just never seem to suit me timewise.

Anyway. When I was asking shraeye before about what he thought of Robz I was considering the possibility of a shraeye/Robz team. shraeye continually going at Robz, and just sort of suggesting him in a bunch of different posts reminded me of yuma's bussing of Glooble in DS9. Off the top of my head, yuma didn't make a particularly solid case on Glooble, he just seemed to say, "What about Glooble? Why don't we lynch Glooble? Why has everyone forgotten about Glooble?" And of course they were scumbuddies. Could this be a similar situation? I don't know. What do others think, particularly mcmc and mail-mi? If we lynch Robz or shraeye, what if anything would their flip tell you about the other?

[spiritbears]

I'm not in favor of a shyrae lynch. He was right about fever ans deserves credit for trying to derail that lynch.  I'm less enthusiastic about robZ. In fact I think that's where I'll park my vote for now.
vote:robz

[Jimmmmm]

Fever?

[spiritbears]

Omg that was a horrible autocorrect. I mean Eevee not "fever"

[mcmcsalot]

Okay well I think we can open this up now. Mail-mi neighborized me. We have been working things out there and posting here to gauge reactions. Mail-mi is fairly confident in robz scummyness, I am fairly confident in efhw's scummyness. So we are planning on those as the next two lynch targets, if one of them flips town shraeye is our third guess. We both believe Jimm and spiritbears are town, yes they have been posting lower content, and robz/efhw/shraeye have been in the spotlight but this is robz created spotlight, with efhw staying just on the edge of it. Her most recent post which seemed to cast suspicion on robz(supporting his lynch) but made no vote and left open the option to look at other people has made me more confident they are the scum team.

Oh good mail-mi informed y'all of the plan.

[mcmcsalot]

Oh also pretty sure spirit just hammered robz, 4 votes is a lynch right?

[Jimmmmm]

I'm not sure on EFHW yet, but I would be surprised if there wasn't scum in Robz/shraeye. Their more recent interactions have me talking myself around to exactly one scum, but I'm not sure.

[mail-mi]

I'm really sorry guys, but I'm not gonna be able to get on until later tonight. Blitz games are definitely not for me.

[Jimmmmm]

Wait what? Derphammer or quickhammer?

[Jimmmmm]

If Robz is Town then spiritbears had better be scum.

[mcmcsalot]

Pretty sure a derphammer, I mean it's not like it matter both your Ic's wanted to vote for him. This is sorta how this setup goes d1 town has to be super active and interact like crazy, d2 the town is small and you have 2 Ic's that sorta pick the lynches and then we go. So after robz flips I think if he flips town we hit shraeye, if he flips scum we lynch efhw, and then lynch the other.

[mcmcsalot]

If Robz is Town then spiritbears had better be scum.

No way, I'm not believing robz is town and shraeye/spirit is the scum team. They deserve to win then for being the only players on at deadline other than me.

I will believe shraeye/efhw or robz/shraeye. That is it.

[Jimmmmm]

Yeah I guess. I will be looking very closely at spirit if Robz flips Town though, assuming I'm still around.

[Jimmmmm]

BTW, the "yeah I guess" was in response to #435.

[Jimmmmm]

Where is that mod?

[shraeye]

Okay well I think we can open this up now. Mail-mi neighborized me. We have been working things out there and posting here to gauge reactions. Mail-mi is fairly confident in robz scummyness, I am fairly confident in efhw's scummyness. So we are planning on those as the next two lynch targets, if one of them flips town shraeye is our third guess. We both believe Jimm and spiritbears are town, yes they have been posting lower content, and robz/efhw/shraeye have been in the spotlight but this is robz created spotlight, with efhw staying just on the edge of it. Her most recent post which seemed to cast suspicion on robz(supporting his lynch) but made no vote and left open the option to look at other people has made me more confident they are the scum team.

Oh good mail-mi informed y'all of the plan.

I'm beginning to see EFHW more in relation to Robz, which has raised her scumminess a bit in my mind.  But I'm still more sold on jimmmm being Robz's partner.

[spiritbears]

Deep! Sorry I had no idea it was that close! 

[Jimmmmm]

Come on give me this flip so I can go to bed.

[mcmcsalot]

Deep! Sorry I had no idea it was that close!

It's okay, deadline is in an hour anyway and we've already stated who were lynching, now we hope were right.

@shraeye, robz/Jimm is equally likely as shraeye/Jimm and efhw/Jimm. This is why I am not lynching him, blitz goes quick and he hasn't looked scummy. You three interacted enough that scum's gotta be there for us to win. Oh and Jimm, if robz flips town. Shraeye is probably scum and efhw his partner because looking at how yesterday went down he said he wouldn't vote for eevee but at the last second he didn't vote efhw, no he voted eevee. Which was strange. So it's very likely shraeye/efhw is the scum team.

This is why I want to solidify robz/efhw/shraeye as our lynches, it has the best combo's of potential teams.

[EFHW]

Oh also pretty sure spirit just hammered robz, 4 votes is a lynch right?

You see there are 4 votes and don't notice I am one of them?  You said I criticized him without voting, but I had already voted for him. 

[EFHW]

Oh also pretty sure spirit just hammered robz, 4 votes is a lynch right?

You see there are 4 votes and don't notice I am one of them?  You said I criticized him without voting, but I had already voted for him.

I would understand you tunneling me if you were scum.  What's this about?  I did get you mislynched once, because I was scum, but all the other times I voted and argued against you, you were actually scum!  You're wasting energy on town:town here.  We need to look at Jimmmmm and Spirit, in my mind.  Shraeye might be one hell of a player and be scum, but I don't have any sense of it myself.  If Robz is town, then like Eevee he really let us down in how's he's played.

[EFHW]

I'm beginning to see EFHW more in relation to Robz, which has raised her scumminess a bit in my mind.  But I'm still more sold on jimmmm being Robz's partner.

Actually, this is scummy-ish.  What does "in relation to Robz" mean? 

[spiritbears]

I really hope we guessed right on robz! I'm afraid it will get very tricky for us if that was a mislynch.
Alsoi haven't forgotten the way shyrae agressuvely ride a weak case on me, and perhaps I'm giving too much credit for his corect call on Eevee.  But I don't have much else to go on. I guess I should reread how vigorous his evee defense was.  But it seemed genuine at the time. I'm also willing to give him credit fir trying to work with Mc and I at deadline when everyone else was absent.

[Insomniac]

Thread Locked briefly for flip

[Insomniac]

Final Vote Count Day 2

shraeye (1) - Robz
Robz888 (4) - Shraeye, Mail-Mi, EFHW, spiritbears

Not Voting (2) - Jimmmmm, Mcmcsalot

Deadline is 8:15am PDT April 25 (11:15am forum time EDT)

[Insomniac]

Shraeye rounded up mail-mi, EFHW, and spiritbears. Robz would die tonight. Surely he would be a witch wreaking this havoc on them for no reason. They held him down in win upright position. Spiritbears quickly spun Robz head around as a loud crack echoed. As they were searching his body another explosion was heard across the way. After another moment they found a bromstick in robz possession (where was he keeping that?) Seems robz was a witch. Looks like be was a witch. They ran across town to where the explosion had gone off. Hoping to find another witch but knowing deep down that wouldn't be the case. They found the body of mcmcsalot. As they looked over the corpse they found a potato in his possession. What was he hoping to do with that?

Robz has been lynched he was a witch
Mcmcsalot had been killed he was a fool

[Insomniac]

Day 3 Start!

Thread Unlocked

Vote Count 3-0

Not Voting (5) - Jimmmmm, Shraeye, EFHW, Spiritbears, Mail-Mi

Deadline: April 26 8:00am PDT (11:00am forum time)

[Jimmmmm]

Oh excellent! We're looking good. We have 4 possible candidates in Jimmmmm, shraeye, EFHW and spiritbears, and two chances to hit the one scum. I think mail-mi needs to take some degree of charge.

[EFHW]

mcmc -- What's with the potato??  We'll never know!

Jimmmmm, how about you give us some detailed reads.

[Jimmmmm]

What potato?

[EFHW]

in the flavor.

[spiritbears]

We need a list of who was on which wagons when they went down. I think given what happened st the last deadline we should know Me,Mai and Shyrae are in the clear. (Mai because of uncontested fool claim).that lesves jimm and efhw.  Efhw sas on robz.  So i think jimmm is out best bet
vote:jimmmm

[Jimmmmm]

A full analysis will have to wait until morning. As it stands, I'm looking at you and shraeye. I find it pretty unlikely that spirit would quickhammer his partner like that. I mean, it's possible but I can't really see it coming from a newbie. I'm wary of shraeye. Like I said before, his interactions with Robz read similar to yuma's with Glooble in DS9 when they were scumbuddies and yuma was on Glooble's case for ages. My opinion on EFHW is not fully formed at this stage, I'll need to do a re-read tomorrow.

[shraeye]

This is a great time to run back and do some analysis of various wagons (both those that were successful and those that started, but then stopped).  Now that we know Robz was a witch, this will give us a bit more of a headstart in finding the final scum out of (jimmm, efhw, spiritbears, shraeye).

[EFHW]

Day 2:

shraeye (1) - Robz
Robz888 (4) - Shraeye, Mail-Mi, EFHW, spiritbears

Not Voting (2) - Jimmmmm, Mcmcsalot


Day 1:

EFHW (1) - Jimmmm, Eevee
Eevee (3) - Robz888, shraeye, mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (2) - yuma, EFHW
Shraeye (1) - spiritbears

Not Voting (1) - mail-mi

[Jimmmmm]

Oh wow. Maybe I was wrong about spirit. He jumps on to the wagon prematurely before others who were still discussing it, and then the first thing he says the next day is "Who was on the wagon?"

[shraeye]

I find it pretty unlikely that spirit would quickhammer his partner like that. I mean, it's possible but I can't really see it coming from a newbie.

I'm a bit wary of this, though with spiritbears help on day1 combined with this, I feel like he definitely is standing townier.

The problem is that since the witches have daychat Robz could have posted to his partner and demanded that his partner vote for him.  If this were a non-blitz game and spirit had done that without any possible communication, I would clear him straight away.  But since the possibility exists that Robz told spirit exactly when to hammer, I'm wary to clear him entirely.

[spiritbears]

Efwh. Thats not how fat one ended.....

[spiritbears]

Efwh. Thats not how fat one ended.....

Ong.  dAY not fat

[Jimmmmm]

I find it pretty unlikely that spirit would quickhammer his partner like that. I mean, it's possible but I can't really see it coming from a newbie.

I'm a bit wary of this, though with spiritbears help on day1 combined with this, I feel like he definitely is standing townier.

The problem is that since the witches have daychat Robz could have posted to his partner and demanded that his partner vote for him.  If this were a non-blitz game and spirit had done that without any possible communication, I would clear him straight away.  But since the possibility exists that Robz told spirit exactly when to hammer, I'm wary to clear him entirely.

I'm retracting that statement based on spirit's first post today.

[shraeye]

I'm beginning to see EFHW more in relation to Robz, which has raised her scumminess a bit in my mind.  But I'm still more sold on jimmmm being Robz's partner.

Actually, this is scummy-ish.  What does "in relation to Robz" mean?

I'll explain what I meant.  I got the same vibe as mcmcsalot did here

and robz/efhw/shraeye have been in the spotlight but this is robz created spotlight, with efhw staying just on the edge of it. Her most recent post which seemed to cast suspicion on robz(supporting his lynch) but made no vote and left open the option to look at other people has made me more confident they are the scum team.

I know that he was wrong about where your vote was, but it did look like you were leaving other lynch options open, which might have been honest preparation, or scummy setup.  I'm having a hard time feeling confident in saying either one.  It seemed like Robz had me fully in his spotlight, and I was considering where Robz's partner might stand in that case.  Would they be absolutely quiet about things related to that argument?  I'm fairly sure they wouldn't take Robz's side in it.  Would they openly support me?  Would they try to reconciliate?

It felt to me like this

Regarding Robz's argument about "free pass" and "good town play", I am of two minds.  I think he is right to question mail-mi's absence, and when it extended into Day 2 I was also getting suspicious.  But regarding town play, he hasn't done anything positive for town besides these arguments and insulting people.  There is more to talk about besides mail-mi's vla.  Why isn't Jimmmmm getting the same amount of heat?  Also weird, I defended mail-mi several times, never got a peep of disagreement from Robz even though he says he thinks I'm scummy.  Is he paying attn to the game?

was a very smooth things over response.  But still, in my mind I weigh that against the townread i got on you at the start of day1 where you seemed genuinely worried that RVS votes would help scum out by setting up lots of easy fake-cases. 

[shraeye]

just like EFHW, I'm torn about spiritbears.  He definitely helped out day1 and did hammer our first scumlynch, but the timing of his hammer, his non-knowledge of who was on the wagon, and the reaction he gave when I began to suspect him late in day1 keep weighing on my mind.

[spiritbears]

I find it pretty unlikely that spirit would quickhammer his partner like that. I mean, it's possible but I can't really see it coming from a newbie.

I'm a bit wary of this, though with spiritbears help on day1 combined with this, I feel like he definitely is standing townier.

The problem is that since the witches have daychat Robz could have posted to his partner and demanded that his partner vote for him.  If this were a non-blitz game and spirit had done that without any possible communicationtu, I would clear him straight away.  But since the possibility exists that Robz told spirit exactly when to hammer, I'm wary to clear him entirely.

I sas referring to day one! I wanted some help with how the votes went down that day to put together with those on robz wagon. Isn't that the logical step...?also, I don't see why scum* would want to lynch their partner with only one left seems illogical to me. way top easy to pick off the last scum

[shraeye]

Oh also pretty sure spirit just hammered robz, 4 votes is a lynch right?

You see there are 4 votes and don't notice I am one of them?  You said I criticized him without voting, but I had already voted for him.

I would understand you tunneling me if you were scum.  What's this about?  I did get you mislynched once, because I was scum, but all the other times I voted and argued against you, you were actually scum!  You're wasting energy on town:town here.  We need to look at Jimmmmm and Spirit, in my mind.  Shraeye might be one hell of a player and be scum, but I don't have any sense of it myself.  If Robz is town, then like Eevee he really let us down in how's he's played.

This post looks lends credit to EFHW being town.  She seems to genuinely be frustrated that we weren't marshaling our efforts finding scum (the wasting energy on town:town bit), and i don't feel much falseness in the "if Robz is town" speculation.

[Jimmmmm]

I just think it's very rich to jump on the hammer before everyone was done talking about it, and then immediately start talking about who was on and off the wagon.

[shraeye]

I find it pretty unlikely that spirit would quickhammer his partner like that. I mean, it's possible but I can't really see it coming from a newbie.

I'm a bit wary of this, though with spiritbears help on day1 combined with this, I feel like he definitely is standing townier.

The problem is that since the witches have daychat Robz could have posted to his partner and demanded that his partner vote for him.  If this were a non-blitz game and spirit had done that without any possible communicationtu, I would clear him straight away.  But since the possibility exists that Robz told spirit exactly when to hammer, I'm wary to clear him entirely.

I sas referring to day one! I wanted some help with how the votes went down that day to put together with those on robz wagon. Isn't that the logical step...?also, I don't see why scum* would want to lynch their partner with only one left seems illogical to me. way top easy to pick off the last scum

Ah, I didn't see that you were talking about day1. My mistake. 

There are, however, reasons for lynching a partner.  At that point, Robz's death seemed like a done deal.  It can often be good for a partner to hammer trying to gain town-credit rather than protest Robz's lynch, which happens anyway, and then it immediately casts suspicions on the person who tried to defend Robz down to the final moment.

[spiritbears]

I just think it's very rich to jump on the hammer before everyone was done talking about it, and then immediately start talking about who was on and off the wagon.

what are you talking about??? we had plenty of time talking in fact, we had more time to talk about this then we did the first day where we ended up running against the deadline with none of the rest of you around to help

[Jimmmmm]

Your vote was not openly a hammer vote. You didn't give intent to hammer, and mcmc might have had some valuable information to give before night, seeing as he was clearly the most likely to die. Given that for a while no one seemed to realise that your vote was the hammer, it's obvious that we generally weren't ready for it. It was fairly obvious that Robz was most likely going to be lynched, especially since both ICs had given Robz as a lynch. But it was obvious that we were not ready to lynch yet. But you jump on the wagon from nowhere and then FoS everyone else who was giving us time to sort everything out before we ended the day.

[spiritbears]

I find it pretty unlikely that spirit would quickhammer his partner like that. I mean, it's possible but I can't really see it coming from a newbie.

I'm a bit wary of this, though with spiritbears help on day1 combined with this, I feel like he definitely is standing townier.

The problem is that since the witches have daychat Robz could have posted to his partner and demanded that his partner vote for him.  If this were a non-blitz game and spirit had done that without any possible communicationtu, I would clear him straight away.  But since the possibility exists that Robz told spirit exactly when to hammer, I'm wary to clear him entirely.

I sas referring to day one! I wanted some help with how the votes went down that day to put together with those on robz wagon. Isn't that the logical step...?also, I don't see why scum* would want to lynch their partner with only one left seems illogical to me. way top easy to pick off the last scum

Ah, I didn't see that you were talking about day1. My mistake. 

There are, however, reasons for lynching a partner.  At that point, Robz's death seemed like a done deal.  It can often be good for a partner to hammer trying to gain town-credit rather than protest Robz's lynch, which happens anyway, and then it immediately casts suspicions on the person who tried to defend Robz down to the final moment.

If Robz was a done deal, that completely undercuts efhw's claim that we needed more time to talk about it. Look, I saved Mc. And I hammered scumrob. And evidently getting very little credit....exactly what help has jimmm been?  And Efhw. Complaining about a supposed "quick hammer" reads to me like he's upset he couldnt get his vote off robzz in time?

[spiritbears]

Your vote was not openly a hammer vote. You didn't give intent to hammer, and mcmc might have had some valuable information to give before night, seeing as he was clearly the most likely to die. Given that for a while no one seemed to realise that your vote was the hammer, it's obvious that we generally weren't ready for it. It was fairly obvious that Robz was most likely going to be lynched, especially since both ICs had given Robz as a lynch. But it was obvious that we were not ready to lynch yet. But you jump on the wagon from nowhere and then FoS everyone else who was giving us time to sort everything out before we ended the day.

It's obvious I made a mistake in derohsmmering robz.  But not the kind of mistake you're trying to turn it into.   Of course you weren't ready to lunch....he was your partner.  And it's really rich you calling for more time when you coukdnt be bothered to even join the game until you had to.....

[Jimmmmm]

We're really back to painting IRL busyness as scummy?

[shraeye]

Trust me spiritbears, whoever Robz's partner is, knew full well that Robz was getting lynched.  So EFHW most definitely isn't complaining that he didn't have time to move his vote.

You aren't getting "very little credit" for your actions, I have explicitly given you credit.  But I gave it with a caveat that I explained.  I'm not prepared to give you so much credit that I will clear your name completely.  But right now, I need to do much more reading before I can sort out my top scumreads.

You do tend to react VERY strongly to suspicion; yes, I've cast some at you in addition to giving some small amount of towncredit (hence my conflicted read), but your reaction seems like you feel that everybody is out to get you.  We're all trying to sort things out right now, and if you're town, the best thing you can do is to try to keep a level head and push forward in finding scum.

[spiritbears]

I agree that I haven't done much this game. I'm reminded why I almost swore off blitz games last time; they just never seem to suit me timewise.

Anyway. When I was asking shraeye before about what he thought of Robz I was considering the possibility of a shraeye/Robz team. shraeye continually going at Robz, and just sort of suggesting him in a bunch of different posts reminded me of yuma's bussing of Glooble in DS9. Off the top of my head, yuma didn't make a particularly solid case on Glooble, he just seemed to say, "What about Glooble? Why don't we lynch Glooble? Why has everyone forgotten about Glooble?" And of course they were scumbuddies. Could this be a similar situation? I don't know. What do others think, particularly mcmc and mail-mi? If we lynch Robz or shraeye, what if anything would their flip tell you about the other?

Here's the real dirt:  jimmm trying to set up shyrae after the immenent robzlynch.....
And particularly by asking the two fools to point the fos at shy

[shraeye]

I agree that I haven't done much this game. I'm reminded why I almost swore off blitz games last time; they just never seem to suit me timewise.

Anyway. When I was asking shraeye before about what he thought of Robz I was considering the possibility of a shraeye/Robz team. shraeye continually going at Robz, and just sort of suggesting him in a bunch of different posts reminded me of yuma's bussing of Glooble in DS9. Off the top of my head, yuma didn't make a particularly solid case on Glooble, he just seemed to say, "What about Glooble? Why don't we lynch Glooble? Why has everyone forgotten about Glooble?" And of course they were scumbuddies. Could this be a similar situation? I don't know. What do others think, particularly mcmc and mail-mi? If we lynch Robz or shraeye, what if anything would their flip tell you about the other?

Here's the real dirt:  jimmm trying to set up shyrae after the immenent robzlynch.....
And particularly by asking the two fools to point the fos at shy

I also felt that to some degree when I read Jimmm's post.  Something about the way he pointed something out that was possible, didn't draw any definitive conclusions from it (Could this be a similar situation? I don't know.), then asked the ICs about it.

What was the votecount at the time of this post?  His statement about "if we lynch Robz or shraeye, what would a flip say about the other" might have been testing the waters to see if people would do a shraeye-lynch to gain info about Robz.  It depends on how imminent the Robz-lynch looked at that time.

[shraeye]

Ah, I see it's unclear upon reviewing my post above; but the part in parantheses is the specific quote I'm pulling from jimmm's post that contributed to my feeling.

[spiritbears]

Ah, I see it's unclear upon reviewing my post above; but the part in parantheses is the specific quote I'm pulling from jimmm's post that contributed to my feeling.

It was actually so eminent it had already happened!!!!! It was after my derphammer.  Reads to me like he's trying to set this up explicitly since he knows he was off wagon and probably caught

[shraeye]

hmmmm, I would ahve found it more suspicious if he had made this post when the lynch was an open question, instead of basically already decided.

[spiritbears]

We're really back to painting IRL busyness as scummy?

I wasnt aware you had made any vLa claims. (other thsn a small complaint about blitz games in general). You certainly didn't say "hey, I can't really show up for this game....let me know when I absolutely have to post." Which is how I see your okay this game. If I'm wrong I'll gladly appologize...

[Jimmmmm]

And it's really rich you calling for more time when you coukdnt be bothered to even join the game until you had to.....

I resent that actually. Before this post, I've posted in these forums 38 times since this game started. 35 of those have been in this game. The other 3 posts have amounted to 8 sentences. So either I'm avoiding the forums in general to justify posting less here, or I've actually been busy. When I got home from nightshift this morning I slept for a few hours and spent the rest of the day with my girlfriend, including going out for lunch and having dinner at her parents' place. And as soon as I got home I was right back on this thread, knowing that the deadline was coming up. And unlike others, I don't have internet access on my phone, so I can't check in wherever I am. Currently I'm still up out of bed even though it's past 2am and I have to get up for uni at about 7am, purely to keep trying to figure this game out. So don't tell me I couldn't be bothered joining the game when you don't know what the hell I've been doing.
If you're Town, you don't do what you did. You just don't. You give intent to hammer, you wait for others to weigh in, and then you follow through. I accept that if you're Town it was a mistake. Fine, mistakes happen. But if it was a mistake then you ended the Day when you didn't mean to, ie prematurely. So you can't argue both that it was a mistake and that you didn't hammer prematurely. Because really, you swooped in from nowhere, having barely mentioned Robz previously, and "parked" your hammer vote, and are now claiming Towncred for it. That's actually one of the scummiest things I've seen yet. So Vote: spiritbears and if you're Town you've done the rest of us a major disservice.

[spiritbears]

I'm not sure on EFHW yet, but I would be surprised if there wasn't scum in Robz/shraeye. Their more recent interactions have me talking myself around to exactly one scum, but I'm not sure.

Actually no one knew robzz had been lynched at that point.  But after we are made aware,he tries to push his non case on shy again without adding any information or any real case st all before the night fsll

[Jimmmmm]

I'm not sure on EFHW yet, but I would be surprised if there wasn't scum in Robz/shraeye. Their more recent interactions have me talking myself around to exactly one scum, but I'm not sure.

Actually no one knew robzz had been lynched at that point.  But after we are made aware,he tries to push his non case on shy again without adding any information or any real case st all before the night fsll

If I'm scum then I was actually doing the opposite of pushing a case on shraeye.

[shraeye]

I'm not sure on EFHW yet, but I would be surprised if there wasn't scum in Robz/shraeye. Their more recent interactions have me talking myself around to exactly one scum, but I'm not sure.

Actually no one knew robzz had been lynched at that point.  But after we are made aware,he tries to push his non case on shy again without adding any information or any real case st all before the night fsll

If I'm scum then I was actually doing the opposite of pushing a case on shraeye.

I agree with Jimmm's assessment here.  With that post (and given Robz's alignment), he was actually arguing against a shraeye lynch.

[spiritbears]

And it's really rich you calling for more time when you coukdnt be bothered to even join the game until you had to.....

I resent that actually. Before this post, I've posted in these forums 38 times since this game started. 35 of those have been in this game. The other 3 posts have amounted to 8 sentences. So either I'm avoiding the forums in general to justify posting less here, or I've actually been busy. When I got home from nightshift this morning I slept for a few hours and spent the rest of the day with my girlfriend, including going out for lunch and having dinner at her parents' place. And as soon as I got home I was right back on this thread, knowing that the deadline was coming up. And unlike others, I don't have internet access on my phone, so I can't check in wherever I am. Currently I'm still up out of bed even though it's past 2am and I have to get up for uni at about 7am, purely to keep trying to figure this game out. So don't tell me I couldn't be bothered joining the game when you don't know what the hell I've been doing.
If you're Town, you don't do what you did. You just don't. You give intent to hammer, you wait for others to weigh in, and then you follow through. I accept that if you're Town it was a mistake. Fine, mistakes happen. But if it was a mistake then you ended the Day when you didn't mean to, ie prematurely. So you can't argue both that it was a mistake and that you didn't hammer prematurely. Because really, you swooped in from nowhere, having barely mentioned Robz previously, and "parked" your hammer vote, and are now claiming Towncred for it. That's actually one of the scummiest things I've seen yet. So Vote: spiritbears and if you're Town you've done the rest of us a major disservice.

Wow. Super defensive, and really just absurd.  You seem very upset that that robz was lynched. This is honestly the first I've ever seen killing a scum as a "disservice" to town. Scumslip.

[spiritbears]

I'm not sure on EFHW yet, but I would be surprised if there wasn't scum in Robz/shraeye. Their more recent interactions have me talking myself around to exactly one scum, but I'm not sure.

Actually no one knew robzz had been lynched at that point.  But after we are made aware,he tries to push his non case on shy again without adding any information or any real case st all before the night fsll

If I'm scum then I was actually doing the opposite of pushing a case on shraeye.

I agree with Jimmm's assessment here.  With that post (and given Robz's alignment), he was actually arguing against a shraeye lynch.

You've got to be joking.  There never was any shyrae lynch.  He was simply throwing dirt against the wall to see what would stick.  Tying you to robz without having to openly question it. 

[Jimmmmm]

And it's really rich you calling for more time when you coukdnt be bothered to even join the game until you had to.....

I resent that actually. Before this post, I've posted in these forums 38 times since this game started. 35 of those have been in this game. The other 3 posts have amounted to 8 sentences. So either I'm avoiding the forums in general to justify posting less here, or I've actually been busy. When I got home from nightshift this morning I slept for a few hours and spent the rest of the day with my girlfriend, including going out for lunch and having dinner at her parents' place. And as soon as I got home I was right back on this thread, knowing that the deadline was coming up. And unlike others, I don't have internet access on my phone, so I can't check in wherever I am. Currently I'm still up out of bed even though it's past 2am and I have to get up for uni at about 7am, purely to keep trying to figure this game out. So don't tell me I couldn't be bothered joining the game when you don't know what the hell I've been doing.
If you're Town, you don't do what you did. You just don't. You give intent to hammer, you wait for others to weigh in, and then you follow through. I accept that if you're Town it was a mistake. Fine, mistakes happen. But if it was a mistake then you ended the Day when you didn't mean to, ie prematurely. So you can't argue both that it was a mistake and that you didn't hammer prematurely. Because really, you swooped in from nowhere, having barely mentioned Robz previously, and "parked" your hammer vote, and are now claiming Towncred for it. That's actually one of the scummiest things I've seen yet. So Vote: spiritbears and if you're Town you've done the rest of us a major disservice.

Wow. Super defensive, and really just absurd.  You seem very upset that that robz was lynched. This is honestly the first I've ever seen killing a scum as a "disservice" to town. Scumslip.

Oh please. You don't get any credit for lynching Robz. You didn't help it at all, you just cut the Day short. The Robz lynch was obviously happening anyway, whether you jumped on or not, and you clearly thought, and still think that it should gain you Towncred. And Towncred is everything that scum wants. If you're Town, the disservice you've done is by hammering prematurely and acting scummy about it. If we mislynch you because you can't follow basic Town protocol, then that's a disservice to Town. But I don't think it matters, since you're not Town.

[EFHW]

I think if Robz and spirit had set up the hammer, spirit would have been townier and more deliberate and obvious about it, responsibly announcing intent, asking for last words, etc.  Derphammering defeats the towncred goal. 

BUT he seems very attentive to people wanting to get on and off the wagon, and may have jumped on in fear of being left off it and got FOS for that.

[EFHW]

Spirit's emotional reaction also seems scummy.  We know he speaks his mind in general, so it's not damning, but definitely something I'm noticing.

[Jimmmmm]

BUT he seems very attentive to people wanting to get on and off the wagon, and may have jumped on in fear of being left off it and got FOS for that.

That's what set off alarm bells for me. His very first post today was to look at who was on the wagon and who was off. It just seems very planned, like the whole reason he was on the wagon was so that he could do this wagon analysis.

[Jimmmmm]

Okay, this is what I was thinking about the Robz/shraeye thing. They were going at each other a fair bit. The natural response to that is to think that they can't both be scum. But then as I said some of what shraeye was saying was reminding me of yuma bussing Glooble in DS9:

I don't get what you're saying at all but what Im saying is not complicated and if you don't understand it that's weird.

I am saying that you seem to be irked that I am willing to give mail-mi a complete pass for his tech-free tuesday.  That is my interpretation of your sarcastic "plan for next scumgame" response.

Eevee also implied that mail-mi wasn't scum for his situation.  You have directly called eevee scummy for his stance.

Suppose for a moment that you're spot-on about Eevee.  Is mail-mi his partner?  Only if you think this is true, should you be upset at giving mail-mi a pass.  After all, if mail-mi is town, then whether it was reasonable or not, anything that gets us to not consider him helps town win.  And as you said, all one should care about is winning. (and feelings)

So it seems to me like your arguments are only cohesive when Eevee/mailmi is the scumteam.  Yet you haven't said that.


Also,
vote: Robz

I'm still feeling great with my vote on Robz.

Mail-mi has a pass for now

EFHW is a solid townread
eevee is townish, I don't find his "This is a sad world that I get suspected for giving mailmi a pass" to be a scummy bit.
mcmcsalot is sitting neutral, I keep searching deep to see which way I lean on him and I'm uncertain
yuma i'm leaning slight scum, no clear idea why.
spiritbears has hit my list for people to be wary of.  He is a scumread
jimmmm I'd love to hear a bit more from him, my read is unformed so far (which is different than the neutral read on mcmcsalot)

That's pretty much where I sit right now.

I want to revote Robz, and encourage people to join me.

He has nothing of substance since I've explained how his statements had me confused and voted him. (except to say he wants eevee lynched, and that mailmi/jimmm's post counts are inflated) Robz, the originator of the "if you are under heat, disappear and so will suspicion" tactic.

Vote: Robz

I'd like people to take a stance on Robz, if they're around and have time to set out a few reads, actually.

I too think Robz has been very "arms swinging" as you put it, but I'm not sure if that aggressiveness has actually been channeled into "aggressive scumhunting".  That's my take.

I'm not.  I'm worried about no lynch.

So in a blitz game, a lynch will always happen.  Right now mcmcsalot is on the line because he's got the most votes.

I'd still love to see Robz get that spot instead.  I'm still suspicious of spiritbears as well.  yuma always makes me uneasy, but i definitely prefer the mcmcsalot lynch over a sudden switch to him, as I have no evidence backing up that unease.

A lot of this seems to be just reminding everyone that shraeye is voting for and wants to lynch Robz. And while I'm not sure that's scummy in itself, it's pretty much what yuma was doing in DS9. So I started to wonder if this whole thing was a plan.

But then I read some of the later interactions:

I'm inclined to believe Mai's claim. Not sure I'm on the robz wagon...someone care to sell me the case?

his insane aggressiveness towards eevee, presumably because eevee was mail-mi's scum partner covering for mailmi's "ridiculous" VLA claim.  But then I also agreed with it, and attracted less suspicion for it.  Once eevee died, Robz switched to the exact same case on me, that I was being "textbook scum" in my interactions with mailmi, and that it was silly for everyone to not see it.  Except that literally is the exact same case that had recently failed to turn up scum with regard to eevee.

Then mail-mi comes online and claims fool, which is obviously true.  I was really interested to see Robz's followup to this, since his entire case on me rests on me defending mail-mi for VLA, and covering for my "partner".  Robz has not reassessed his reads on me, nor shown any change since the mail-mi claim.

When I asked him about this, his only response is to say that "of course he believes mail-mi's claim".  But that's not the interesting part, I'm curious about how his reads are now evolving in light of new evidence.  And apparently the amount that they are evolving is 'not at all'.

This is completely unhelpful as town, but reasonable as scum.  He gets put in a difficult situation when mail-mi makes the PR claim, and his response is not to work on better scumhunting in light of evidence, it's just to clam up and say nothing.

I'm just sick of you getting away with your scummy behavior, it sickens me.

I'm just sick of you getting away with your scummy behavior, it sickens me.

you literally have never given any reason why i might be scum that didn't hinge on mail-mi being my partner.

Again, I'm still waiting for mcmc to take me up on my offer. I'm convinced enough that you are scum, if he shoots you and you're not scum, we can lynch me.

I'm just sick of you getting away with your scummy behavior, it sickens me.

you literally have never given any reason why i might be scum that didn't hinge on mail-mi being my partner.

LIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES

Oh that's such a ridiculous lie.

Oh that's such a ridiculous lie.

How about prove this statement, instead of just capslock-yelling?

Yours and Eevee's defense of mail-mi was scummy, independent of mail-mi being scum. What mail-mi did was bad and wrong and it was right to suspect me, and you and Eevee both had this totally ridiculous reaction to it, you even propogated the wholly insane "free pass" nonsense. I pegged you--correctly--as a scum trying to make a friend in mail-mi (if mail-mi wasn't your scumpartner). And I was right.

Whatever, but when this game is over, don't you dare for one second gloat that you fooled everyone.

Shraeye is a liar.

etc.

This seemed much more like a genuine fight to me, but I still wasn't ready to rule out it all being part of their plan. So I wanted to see what others thought about this, and I didn't want to give away my whole thought process before hearing what others had to say. So my question to the ICs and other Townies was basically, "Could these two have planned this, or do you think one of them being scum will mean that the other must be Town?"

[Jimmmmm]

Anyway, I'm going to bed. I've been lynched in my sleep in a Blitz game before, and I'd rather it didn't happen again. But if it does, whoever's left over, do me a favour and lynch spiritbears tomorrow?

Also, FYI I'll probably be in and out a fair bit tomorrow, so I'll help as much as I can. But I will end up being home and free around 2 hours before deadline.

[spiritbears]

I don't see anything in what you just posted that casts any suspicion on shyrae. He rode robz hard.  And was right to do so.  His case on robz is what helped me cone around to a robz lynch and his case against eevee kept me from switching to an eevee vote when I saved Mc. 
Shy is town. No dout.
And it makes perfect sense for jimm to want to lynch me and ignore what Mc wanted us to do after robz....fund the other scum, which I now have no doubts about that being jimm. Im so sure, you can lunch me and when I flip town immediately get rid of him. (2-1).
I'll even self hammer

[Jimmmmm]

Read what I actually wrote. I wasn't trying to cast suspicion on shraeye, I was trying to nut out whether it was possible that they could both be scum.

As for what mcmc wanted to do, here are his last 3 posts:

Pretty sure a derphammer, I mean it's not like it matter both your Ic's wanted to vote for him. This is sorta how this setup goes d1 town has to be super active and interact like crazy, d2 the town is small and you have 2 Ic's that sorta pick the lynches and then we go. So after robz flips I think if he flips town we hit shraeye, if he flips scum we lynch efhw, and then lynch the other.

If Robz is Town then spiritbears had better be scum.

No way, I'm not believing robz is town and shraeye/spirit is the scum team. They deserve to win then for being the only players on at deadline other than me.

I will believe shraeye/efhw or robz/shraeye. That is it.

Deep! Sorry I had no idea it was that close!

It's okay, deadline is in an hour anyway and we've already stated who were lynching, now we hope were right.

@shraeye, robz/Jimm is equally likely as shraeye/Jimm and efhw/Jimm. This is why I am not lynching him, blitz goes quick and he hasn't looked scummy. You three interacted enough that scum's gotta be there for us to win. Oh and Jimm, if robz flips town. Shraeye is probably scum and efhw his partner because looking at how yesterday went down he said he wouldn't vote for eevee but at the last second he didn't vote efhw, no he voted eevee. Which was strange. So it's very likely shraeye/efhw is the scum team.

This is why I want to solidify robz/efhw/shraeye as our lynches, it has the best combo's of potential teams.

(bolding mine)

So mcmc now wants us to lynch either shraeye or EFHW today, and if we mislynch the other tomorrow. If I was scum, how would it possibly benefit me to stray from that? Did you even look at what mcmc wanted to do before you posted that?

[EFHW]

I am really torn between Jimmmmm and Spiritbears.  I believe the fight between Shraeye and Robz was genuine.  I think it was towny of Jimmmmm to analyze it.  I think Spirit doesn't get that much credit for day one - he got Eevee lynched instead of mcmc.  With mcmc claiming fool, that's the best scum could hope for anyway.  I'm going to check the vote count and get back with my vote in a minute.

[EFHW]

Right now, we have Jimmmmm and Spirit voting for each other. 

I vote: Spiritbears, putting him at L-1.

[EFHW]

THREAD LOCKED

We get to talk all day tomorow about who I shoot right now we need to keep me alive so i can do it

I already kept you alive wen I unvoted

Does it bother anyone else that Spiritbears posted after the thread was locked?

[shraeye]

I think if Robz and spirit had set up the hammer, spirit would have been townier and more deliberate and obvious about it, responsibly announcing intent, asking for last words, etc.  Derphammering defeats the towncred goal. 

BUT he seems very attentive to people wanting to get on and off the wagon, and may have jumped on in fear of being left off it and got FOS for that.

I think you may be right that spirit might have been more obvious about the hammer, if he were scum.

Spirit's emotional reaction also seems scummy.  We know he speaks his mind in general, so it's not damning, but definitely something I'm noticing.

I played with spiritbears in his first game, in which spiritbears and yuma get into serious town/town arguments and spiritbears frequently gave very strong emotional reactions.  My opinion is that that is just how spiritbears plays.  It can be difficult to separate in one's mind the difference between a thin case that a town-player is earnestly hoping is true, or a thin case that a mafia-player is cleverly constructing; and I think spiritbears sometimes has a hard time not reacting to the two things similarly.

[shraeye]

I think spiritbears is town.  please don't self-hammer spiritbears.  I vow to find the right lynch today.

[shraeye]

THREAD LOCKED

We get to talk all day tomorow about who I shoot right now we need to keep me alive so i can do it

I already kept you alive wen I unvoted

Does it bother anyone else that Spiritbears posted after the thread was locked?

no

[shraeye]

I am very confident that the final scum is either Jimmmm or EFHW.  Don't do anything brash and end this day too soon please.  I need time to sort out where those two stand in my eyes.

[EFHW]

I think spiritbears is town.  please don't self-hammer spiritbears.  I vow to find the right lynch today.

What changed your mind?  I hope it's not because you think I'm scummy.

I'll Unvote to take off the pressure, and would love to hear more arguments about either Jimmmmm or Spirit. 

[spiritbears]

I did not mean to post after the lock. I checked, got red warning and posted.  I don't know why mine came out just after the thread lock. I immediately appologized to insom via pm and let him know what happened. Check the time stamps. I believe they are almost simultaneous. 

And ok shy. I won't self hammer.  But if it helps town I will sacrifice myslef if need be.

[spiritbears]

I did not mean to post after the lock. I checked, got red warning and posted.  I don't know why mine came out just after the thread lock. I immediately appologized to insom via pm and let him know what happened. Check the time stamps. I believe they are almost simultaneous. 

And ok shy. I won't self hammer.  But if it helps town I will sacrifice myslef if need be.

NO red warning.  (Sorry still having a hard time with my new phone)

[shraeye]

I dont' think a self-sacrifice will help town in this case.  For example, eevee's sacrifice to save mcmcsalot was a good one.  But now, our main goal is to focus all efforts on finding the last scum.

What are your thoughts on EFHW and Jimmmm.  I've seen you be critical of both of them.  Which is more worrisome?

[spiritbears]

I dont' think a self-sacrifice will help town in this case.  For example, eevee's sacrifice to save mcmcsalot was a good one.  But now, our main goal is to focus all efforts on finding the last scum.

What are your thoughts on EFHW and Jimmmm.  I've seen you be critical of both of them.  Which is more worrisome?

Yes.  I was on efhw early,but  he handled it very well and didn't seem to be deflection. Since that time I don't think Ivebseen any hard evidence ieither way
Jimm on the other hand,while helpful at times, it seems to me hid "help" is more often than not--not psrticularly helpful and seems more like distractions désignés to keep town chasing our tails. Im fairly confident in my jimm vote.  And not because of his defensive reaction to me, but more because I think he's the best candidate given his non action day one and wrong action day2

[shraeye]

I dont' think a self-sacrifice will help town in this case.  For example, eevee's sacrifice to save mcmcsalot was a good one.  But now, our main goal is to focus all efforts on finding the last scum.

What are your thoughts on EFHW and Jimmmm.  I've seen you be critical of both of them.  Which is more worrisome?

Yes.  I was on efhw early,but  he handled it very well and didn't seem to be deflection. Since that time I don't think Ivebseen any hard evidence ieither way

EFHW is still a she.

Jimm on the other hand,while helpful at times, it seems to me hid "help" is more often than not--not psrticularly helpful and seems more like distractions désignés to keep town chasing our tails. Im fairly confident in my jimm vote.  And not because of his defensive reaction to me, but more because I think he's the best candidate given his non action day one and wrong action day2

What wrong action are you talking about?

[spiritbears]

I dont' think a self-sacrifice will help town in this case.  For example, eevee's sacrifice to save mcmcsalot was a good one.  But now, our main goal is to focus all efforts on finding the last scum.

What are your thoughts on EFHW and Jimmmm.  I've seen you be critical of both of them.  Which is more worrisome?

Yes.  I was on efhw early,but  he handled it very well and didn't seem to be deflection. Since that time I don't think Ivebseen any hard evidence ieither way

EFHW is still a she.

Jimm on the other hand,while helpful at times, it seems to me hid "help" is more often than not--not psrticularly helpful and seems more like distractions désignés to keep town chasing our tails. Im fairly confident in my jimm vote.  And not because of his defensive reaction to me, but more because I think he's the best candidate given his non action day one and wrong action day2

What wrong action are you talking about?

I'm sorry e!..my appoligies

By wrong action I mean his failure to be on the robz bus.

[EFHW]

It felt to me like this

Regarding Robz's argument about "free pass" and "good town play", I am of two minds.  I think he is right to question mail-mi's absence, and when it extended into Day 2 I was also getting suspicious.  But regarding town play, he hasn't done anything positive for town besides these arguments and insulting people.  There is more to talk about besides mail-mi's vla.  Why isn't Jimmmmm getting the same amount of heat?  Also weird, I defended mail-mi several times, never got a peep of disagreement from Robz even though he says he thinks I'm scummy.  Is he paying attn to the game?

was a very smooth things over response.  But still, in my mind I weigh that against the townread i got on you at the start of day1 where you seemed genuinely worried that RVS votes would help scum out by setting up lots of easy fake-cases.

I think the bolded part of the above quote is not consistent with me being Robz' partner.

[shraeye]

It felt to me like this

Regarding Robz's argument about "free pass" and "good town play", I am of two minds.  I think he is right to question mail-mi's absence, and when it extended into Day 2 I was also getting suspicious.  But regarding town play, he hasn't done anything positive for town besides these arguments and insulting people.  There is more to talk about besides mail-mi's vla.  Why isn't Jimmmmm getting the same amount of heat?  Also weird, I defended mail-mi several times, never got a peep of disagreement from Robz even though he says he thinks I'm scummy.  Is he paying attn to the game?

was a very smooth things over response.  But still, in my mind I weigh that against the townread i got on you at the start of day1 where you seemed genuinely worried that RVS votes would help scum out by setting up lots of easy fake-cases.

I think the bolded part of the above quote is not consistent with me being Robz' partner.

True, though if I recall correctly, this post came when the Robz ship seemed to be sinking.  It's a great time to cut ties, if one were Robz's partner.

[spiritbears]

Does anyone know how ling we have until our deadline? My son has a baseball game but I want to make sure  am around near deadline in case things get out of hand again.

[shraeye]

should be until tomorrow at 11am eastern time.  If the pattern continues.

[spiritbears]

Thanks!

[Jimmmmm]

I dont' think a self-sacrifice will help town in this case.  For example, eevee's sacrifice to save mcmcsalot was a good one.  But now, our main goal is to focus all efforts on finding the last scum.

What are your thoughts on EFHW and Jimmmm.  I've seen you be critical of both of them.  Which is more worrisome?

Yes.  I was on efhw early,but  he handled it very well and didn't seem to be deflection. Since that time I don't think Ivebseen any hard evidence ieither way

EFHW is still a she.

Jimm on the other hand,while helpful at times, it seems to me hid "help" is more often than not--not psrticularly helpful and seems more like distractions désignés to keep town chasing our tails. Im fairly confident in my jimm vote.  And not because of his defensive reaction to me, but more because I think he's the best candidate given his non action day one and wrong action day2

What wrong action are you talking about?

I'm sorry e!..my appoligies

By wrong action I mean his failure to be on the robz bus.

It amazes me that you have no understanding that jumping on an already-decided lynch and then basically saying, "Haha! Too slow! FoS all of you for not being quick enough!" is not a Towny thing to do.

[Jimmmmm]

Here is the full extent of everything spirit said about Robz before he hammered him (I don't think I missed anything):

Well in to the our next play. I think Robzz has some answering to do for his tunneling Eevee z(MC you didn't disagree with hjs ultra-meta case). I'm less down to lynch Mai.  But that will depend on what he says and whether he joins this game in any real way.

I am getting concerned about Mai's absence extending into 2 days and Robz rather abrupt change of pace confuses me.

I'm inclined to believe Mai's claim. Not sure I'm on the robz wagon...someone care to sell me the case?

Okay, I'm not sure if we're supposed to interpret the second sentence as "Not sure I'm on the Robz wagon" or "I'm not sure on the Robz wagon". But either way this just reads to me like he's saying "Someone give me a reason to bus so that I can jump on the wagon and everyone will think I'm Town." The others, "Robz has some answering" and "Robz confuses me" are typical hedgy scum lines.

I'm not in favor of a shyrae lynch. He was right about fever ans deserves credit for trying to derail that lynch.  I'm less enthusiastic about robZ. In fact I think that's where I'll park my vote for now.
vote:robz

And then of course this weird hammer, and "I'm less enthusiastic about Robz" is all the reasoning he could come up with.

[spiritbears]

Here is the full extent of everything spirit said about Robz before he hammered him (I don't think I missed anything):

Well in to the our next play. I think Robzz has some answering to do for his tunneling Eevee z(MC you didn't disagree with hjs ultra-meta case). I'm less down to lynch Mai.  But that will depend on what he says and whether he joins this game in any real way.

I am getting concerned about Mai's absence extending into 2 days and Robz rather abrupt change of pace confuses me.

I'm inclined to believe Mai's claim. Not sure I'm on the robz wagon...someone care to sell me the case?

Okay, I'm not sure if we're supposed to interpret the second sentence as "Not sure I'm on the Robz wagon" or "I'm not sure on the Robz wagon". But either way this just reads to me like he's saying "Someone give me a reason to bus so that I can jump on the wagon and everyone will think I'm Town." The others, "Robz has some answering" and "Robz confuses me" are typical hedgy scum lines.

I'm not in favor of a shyrae lynch. He was right about fever ans deserves credit for trying to derail that lynch.  I'm less enthusiastic about robZ. In fact I think that's where I'll park my vote for now.
vote:robz

And then of course this weird hammer, and "I'm less enthusiastic about Robz" is all the reasoning he could come up with.

Nothing unreasonable there. I admitted derphammer so your continued tunneling of me looks with absolutely nothing to back it up is what looks scummy and desperate

[Jimmmmm]

So you admit to derphammering and then FoS everyone who had enough of a grasp on the game to not derphammer?

[spiritbears]

So you admit to derphammering and then FoS everyone who had enough of a grasp on the game to not derphammer?

That's not what happened and it's a total scum play for you to try to twist it that way.  I derphammered and then asked for help putting together who was off wagon day one (not day two as you keep dishonestly claiming).  It's pretty clear what's going on here: you disliked my analysis of who the logicsl scum parted was (you) and are trying to distract the rest of town from putting it together. The only FoS I raised was for you....completely deserving obviously scum.

[shraeye]

Jimmm, would you be interested in lynching EFHW instead?

Here's the reason I suspect her now.  When I came to the conclusion that spirit was town (which I still believe), EFHW responded by asking what changed my mind, and hoping that I wasn't about to target her.  Then the next post EFHW made was a defense to a piece that I had about her from a while ago, which I had brought up but hadn't thought about in a while.  It felt like she was doing two things.  Predefending the case that she was worried I'd lobby at her, and also simply waiting to see what my next move is. 

I compare this with you, who despite me stating that i think spirit is town, you continue to push the spirit lynch, and it genuinely seems like you think you're right, and are trying hardto convince others (like me) to join you in lynching spiritbears.

I would expect town to do exactly that, to continue to hunt regardless of other people's stances.  EFHW seems to be waiting in stasis for me to make my next move, and is waiting to respond to that, instead of actually working on doing some scumhunting herself.

[shraeye]

vote: EFHW

[EFHW]

I've actually spent this time doing a total reread of Jimmmm, (which I can post, if you want to see it).  I didn't find anything that struck me as scummy.  So that leaves me with Spirit and Shraeye.  There's a case to be made against Spirit, as we all know.  I don't have much to point to re: Shraeye, except that the case he is currently making on me is quite thin.  Town wanting to believe a thin case or scum trying to press one?

[shraeye]

I also just did a reread, and agree with you about Jimmmm.  He seems fine.

[EFHW]

Just in case you have doubt.  I stopped quoting at a certain point and just read, but here is a good sampling of his contributions up until about 11:30 this am.

Hey look we've started!

… For example, I think trying to avoid RVS and not giving anything to talk about instead is scummy, so Vote: EFHW.
 

The comment wasn't about RVS'ing mcmc, which I haven't done. It was about how mcmc and I always end up on opposite teams (in the 3 games I've been in so far).   I guess this is 4.  Eevee would be next on my scum suspicions list.  No particular read otherwise, except maybe Jimmmmm for starting this whole silly mess. I'm going to vote mcmc, but before I do, what L is he at?

You don't understand - this isn't a silly mess at all. You said you don't like RVS, and that was a semi-RVS vote which caused people to make serious cases on you. I'm very pleased with it because it brought us out of RVS nicely. And you should be too.

A little preachy, considering that my talking and not voting did get us out of RVS just fine. 

Next two quick comments about being too busy.

Hate to come in and leave straight away but I'm going to have to. I haven't fully caught up yet but I will when I get the chance.

Hey guys, sorry for my absence, I've been a lot busier today than I thought I'd be. I'm on night shift tonight and while I can't contribute that much at the moment since I have actual work to do, I will be able to post a lot in a couple of hours when there's nothing to do here.

Reasonable point about people not being “confirmed town”.  Works well as scum or town.

Okay, I'm here. Still at work, but it's 4am so there's not a lot happening. I knew deadline was coming up and I really wanted to have some sort of contribution, but that was during the busy part of the night and I just couldn't give this game priority over work that I had to do.
I'm always very uneasy about calling anyone "confirmed" Town when they haven't been. I believe mcmc is Town, and will continue to believe so unless we get two other Fool claims. But mcmc's claim came 3 minutes before the thread was locked. If scum was around at that point in time they had to make a snap decision. And I'm sure they would have wanted to kill mcmc. But only 2 possible scum posted after mcmc's claim, and if mcmc was killed overnight they would have received a heck of a lot of scrutiny. I mean yeah, scum might have killed mcmc in that situation. But that's certainly a long way from certain. So maybe they get Town points for that. But I'm certainly not treating them as confirmed Town, and if I think they're scum, that one thing isn't going to sway me from lynching them.

Don’t know if this reads pro-town or pro-scum.

I agree that shooting is way better if both Fools do it.

Bringing attention back to Robz, doesn’t seem like what a partner would do:

shraeye, what are your current thoughts on Robz? You were all over him for quite a while, and then you seemed to forget about him, saying you were worried about an Eevee/spirit scumteam, and today while you've engage with him you haven't mentioned him other than in relation to being a vet and you suspecting vets.

4/24 3:45 pm Re Robz: I guess just the mix of his seeming certain about people being scum and being what seems to be unnecessarily aggressive. I'm not sure aggressive is the right word though, just loud maybe? He was arguing that someone is using being V/LA to cover for being scum, and while that's possible there's no real evidence that it's true in this case. So jumping down people's throats for disagreeing with him on that seems strange.

I actually think changing the kill to mcmc is something a newbie scum is much more likely to be rash enough to do than a vet.

I don't think so. 1-1 trades are generally fairly bad for scum. I think scum would much rather a Townie was shot.

How does PoE lead you to mail-mi/me? I don't mean to say a Newbie would necessarily change to killing mcmc of course, it's just a blunder they would be more likely to make than a vet, I think.

Well that's certainly verifiable. Why Neighbouriser? Are you going to say any more about whether you've used it or who you plan to use it on?

I agree that I haven't done much this game. I'm reminded why I almost swore off blitz games last time; they just never seem to suit me timewise.

Anyway. When I was asking shraeye before about what he thought of Robz I was considering the possibility of a shraeye/Robz team. shraeye continually going at Robz, and just sort of suggesting him in a bunch of different posts reminded me of yuma's bussing of Glooble in DS9. Off the top of my head, yuma didn't make a particularly solid case on Glooble, he just seemed to say, "What about Glooble? Why don't we lynch Glooble? Why has everyone forgotten about Glooble?" And of course they were scumbuddies. Could this be a similar situation? I don't know. What do others think, particularly mcmc and mail-mi? If we lynch Robz or shraeye, what if anything would their flip tell you about the other?

I'm not sure on EFHW yet, but I would be surprised if there wasn't scum in Robz/shraeye. Their more recent interactions have me talking myself around to exactly one scum, but I'm not sure.

Wait what? Derphammer or quickhammer?

If Robz is Town then spiritbears had better be scum.

4 quick chatty posts
Again starts the day very cheery:

Oh excellent! We're looking good. We have 4 possible candidates in Jimmmmm, shraeye, EFHW and spiritbears, and two chances to hit the one scum. I think mail-mi needs to take some degree of charge.

A full analysis will have to wait until morning. As it stands, I'm looking at you and shraeye. I find it pretty unlikely that spirit would quickhammer his partner like that. I mean, it's possible but I can't really see it coming from a newbie. I'm wary of shraeye. Like I said before, his interactions with Robz read similar to yuma's with Glooble in DS9 when they were scumbuddies and yuma was on Glooble's case for ages. My opinion on EFHW is not fully formed at this stage, I'll need to do a re-read tomorrow.

Oh wow. Maybe I was wrong about spirit. He jumps on to the wagon prematurely before others who were still discussing it, and then the first thing he says the next day is "Who was on the wagon?"

re: Spirit wouldn't quickhammer, 4/25, 11:25 am:  I'm retracting that statement based on spirit's first post today.

[Jimmmmm]

Jimmm, would you be interested in lynching EFHW instead?

I would hesitate, since if I'm right about spirit I absolutely want to make this a him v me thing. But I will do my due diligence and re-read EFHW to form an opinion on her independently of my opinion of spirit.

[spiritbears]

I've actually spent this time doing a total reread of Jimmmm, (which I can post, if you want to see it).  I didn't find anything that struck me as scummy.  So that leaves me with Spirit and Shraeye.  There's a case to be made against Spirit, as we all know.  I don't have much to point to re: Shraeye, except that the case he is currently making on me is quite thin.  Town wanting to believe a thin case or scum trying to press one?

"As we all know"? Or rather. As Jimmm has tunneled and you're hoping for traction.
Shy makes a good read of you and he has generally had a good bead on scum this game
I think jimm is certainly defensive and has made some really scummy arguments about me, but it's probably just s big distraction.
Going away for night,but going to get in shy's train first
unvote; vote efhw

[shraeye]

I am really torn between Jimmmmm and Spiritbears.  I believe the fight between Shraeye and Robz was genuine.  I think it was towny of Jimmmmm to analyze it.  I think Spirit doesn't get that much credit for day one - he got Eevee lynched instead of mcmc.  With mcmc claiming fool, that's the best scum could hope for anyway.  I'm going to check the vote count and get back with my vote in a minute.

I mean, this is EFHW's post before voting for spiritbears.  And this was the apparent state of EFHW's thought process when she said "There's a case to be made against Spirit, as we all know."

EFHW, direct question: what is the case on spiritbears in your words?

[mail-mi]

I'm here now, been reading, am gonna do a big long post when im done with homework (or not, I don't usually do that kind of stuff.

[EFHW]

1. He thought mcmc's reasoning re: bussing made sense.  Either buddying or wanting to misdirect.
2.  Overly emotional reaction to being challenged.
3.  Derp/quick hammer in combination with preoccupation with who is and isn't on wagons.
4.  Claiming credit for "saving" mcmc, when not to do so would have been a huge scumtell.

[shraeye]

1. He thought mcmc's reasoning re: bussing made sense.  Either buddying or wanting to misdirect.
2.  Overly emotional reaction to being challenged.
3.  Derp/quick hammer in combination with preoccupation with who is and isn't on wagons.
4.  Claiming credit for "saving" mcmc, when not to do so would have been a huge scumtell.

Regarding 2, you should take a read of the cancelled newbie game, where town-spiritbears was equally emotional in his reactions.

[Jimmmmm]

I mean, I get the argument against EFHW. #504 sounds a bit like she's trying to perpetuate me v spirit without really contributing to it herself, which is something I can see scum wanting to do. That way she can avoid the blame for mislynching and set up the other one of us at lylo tomorrow. But if she's Town and believes shraeye to be Town then planning to lynch me and spirit in either order is all she needs to do for Town to win. And then after being called out by shraeye for waiting rather than making a case, suddenly she has a Townread on me. But, I'm still more confident in my stance on spirit. His hammer combined with his first post today just reek of trying to get Towncred for himself.

It also bothers me how quickly spirit went from saying I was, "completely deserving obviously scum" to "it's probably just s big distraction" and voting for EFHW after both EFHW and shraeye expressed a Townread on me.

So I think shraeye is probably Town. I wouldn't say his arguments with Robz couldn't be scum-on-scum, but I'd be highly surprised if they were. So my lynch priority today would have to be spirit >> EFHW >> shraeye, at I guess about 60/30/10.

Super interested in hearing mail-mi's take.

[EFHW]

I know.  But he has also said that is not his usual way of interacting.

[EFHW]

And then after being called out by shraeye for waiting rather than making a case, suddenly she has a Townread on me.

Do you think I cooked up that list of quotes in the less than a minute between posts?  There was nothing sudden about it.  That took awhile.

[Jimmmmm]

1. He thought mcmc's reasoning re: bussing made sense.  Either buddying or wanting to misdirect.
2.  Overly emotional reaction to being challenged.
3.  Derp/quick hammer in combination with preoccupation with who is and isn't on wagons.
4.  Claiming credit for "saving" mcmc, when not to do so would have been a huge scumtell.

Regarding 2, you should take a read of the cancelled newbie game, where town-spiritbears was equally emotional in his reactions.

I think 2 is null given that as far as I know we've only seen Town spirit before this game. I can't remember the details of 1, but I agree with 3 and to some extent 4. If I was scum and online for that deadline, I would have done everything I could to save mcmc.

[EFHW]

Vote Count Please

[EFHW]

Shraeye could you perhaps unvote while you are making up your mind?  You can always revote for me later if you decide to.

[shraeye]

I'm liking my vote where it is for now.

[Jimmmmm]

And then after being called out by shraeye for waiting rather than making a case, suddenly she has a Townread on me.

Do you think I cooked up that list of quotes in the less than a minute between posts?  There was nothing sudden about it.  That took awhile.

That's fair. I was looking up to #523. Obviously #525 took more than 2-3 minutes to put together.

[EFHW]

I have to go to bed now.  If you lynch me, then lynch Spirit next, ok?  I'll be on again before deadline.

[EFHW]

I have to go to bed now.  If you lynch me, then lynch Spirit next, ok?  I'll be on again before deadline.

Vote: Spiritbears

[mail-mi]

OK done w/ homework.

I don't know about spiritbears, he's acting like his townie self in the Newbie game.

I mean, I get the argument against EFHW. #504 sounds a bit like she's trying to perpetuate me v spirit without really contributing to it herself, which is something I can see scum wanting to do. That way she can avoid the blame for mislynching and set up the other one of us at lylo tomorrow. But if she's Town and believes shraeye to be Town then planning to lynch me and spirit in either order is all she needs to do for Town to win. And then after being called out by shraeye for waiting rather than making a case, suddenly she has a Townread on me. But, I'm still more confident in my stance on spirit. His hammer combined with his first post today just reek of trying to get Towncred for himself.

It also bothers me how quickly spirit went from saying I was, "completely deserving obviously scum" to "it's probably just s big distraction" and voting for EFHW after both EFHW and shraeye expressed a Townread on me.

So I think shraeye is probably Town. I wouldn't say his arguments with Robz couldn't be scum-on-scum, but I'd be highly surprised if they were. So my lynch priority today would have to be spirit >> EFHW >> shraeye, at I guess about 60/30/10.

Super interested in hearing mail-mi's take.

However, Spiritbears is also changing around his reads alot. One really, really big thing that acts in his (and Shraeye's) favor, is that mcmc claimed fool at the end of D1, when only they were online. If they were scum, they prob. would have killed him instead of yuma (was it yuma? I forget). I think EFHW is scummier than Jimmmmm and will place a vote: EFHW

P.S. not bolding is on purpose, would like to see another vote count.

[shraeye]

OK done w/ homework.

I don't know about spiritbears, he's acting like his townie self in the Newbie game.

I mean, I get the argument against EFHW. #504 sounds a bit like she's trying to perpetuate me v spirit without really contributing to it herself, which is something I can see scum wanting to do. That way she can avoid the blame for mislynching and set up the other one of us at lylo tomorrow. But if she's Town and believes shraeye to be Town then planning to lynch me and spirit in either order is all she needs to do for Town to win. And then after being called out by shraeye for waiting rather than making a case, suddenly she has a Townread on me. But, I'm still more confident in my stance on spirit. His hammer combined with his first post today just reek of trying to get Towncred for himself.

It also bothers me how quickly spirit went from saying I was, "completely deserving obviously scum" to "it's probably just s big distraction" and voting for EFHW after both EFHW and shraeye expressed a Townread on me.

So I think shraeye is probably Town. I wouldn't say his arguments with Robz couldn't be scum-on-scum, but I'd be highly surprised if they were. So my lynch priority today would have to be spirit >> EFHW >> shraeye, at I guess about 60/30/10.

Super interested in hearing mail-mi's take.

However, Spiritbears is also changing around his reads alot. One really, really big thing that acts in his (and Shraeye's) favor, is that mcmc claimed fool at the end of D1, when only they were online. If they were scum, they prob. would have killed him instead of yuma (was it yuma? I forget). I think EFHW is scummier than Jimmmmm and will place a vote: EFHW

P.S. not bolding is on purpose, would like to see another vote count.

It was yuma who died night one.

[Jimmmmm]

Unofficial vote count.

spiritbears (2): Jimmmmm, EFHW
EFHW (2): shraeye, spiritbears

not voting (1): mail-mi

[mail-mi]

OK done w/ homework.

I don't know about spiritbears, he's acting like his townie self in the Newbie game.

I mean, I get the argument against EFHW. #504 sounds a bit like she's trying to perpetuate me v spirit without really contributing to it herself, which is something I can see scum wanting to do. That way she can avoid the blame for mislynching and set up the other one of us at lylo tomorrow. But if she's Town and believes shraeye to be Town then planning to lynch me and spirit in either order is all she needs to do for Town to win. And then after being called out by shraeye for waiting rather than making a case, suddenly she has a Townread on me. But, I'm still more confident in my stance on spirit. His hammer combined with his first post today just reek of trying to get Towncred for himself.

It also bothers me how quickly spirit went from saying I was, "completely deserving obviously scum" to "it's probably just s big distraction" and voting for EFHW after both EFHW and shraeye expressed a Townread on me.

So I think shraeye is probably Town. I wouldn't say his arguments with Robz couldn't be scum-on-scum, but I'd be highly surprised if they were. So my lynch priority today would have to be spirit >> EFHW >> shraeye, at I guess about 60/30/10.

Super interested in hearing mail-mi's take.

However, Spiritbears is also changing around his reads alot. One really, really big thing that acts in his (and Shraeye's) favor, is that mcmc claimed fool at the end of D1, when only they were online. If they were scum, they prob. would have killed him instead of yuma (was it yuma? I forget). I think EFHW is scummier than Jimmmmm and will place a vote: EFHW

P.S. not bolding is on purpose, would like to see another vote count.

It was yuma who died night one.

Night? What's that?







And thanks.

[mail-mi]

So I'm the hammer. Announcing intent to hammer EFHW.

[Jimmmmm]

One really, really big thing that acts in his (and Shraeye's) favor, is that mcmc claimed fool at the end of D1, when only they were online. If they were scum, they prob. would have killed him instead of yuma (was it yuma? I forget).

I still disagree with this fairly strongly. If mcmc had died Night 1, a huge focus on Day 2 would have been on shraeye and spirit as the only possible scum who were around for mcmc's claim.

[mail-mi]

Okay... I have a half hour. I will lynch EFHW by then unless someone strongly convinces me to vote for SB.

One really, really big thing that acts in his (and Shraeye's) favor, is that mcmc claimed fool at the end of D1, when only they were online. If they were scum, they prob. would have killed him instead of yuma (was it yuma? I forget).

I still disagree with this fairly strongly. If mcmc had died Night 1, a huge focus on Day 2 would have been on shraeye and spirit as the only possible scum who were around for mcmc's claim.

I can see shraeye doing this as a vet. SB, he'd probably go "Hey, mcmc is fool! WE should kill him!" w/o his partner being there.

[Jimmmmm]

Insom's not online so there's not a lot of point hammering now. You also really need to give as much of your thoughts as possible about me, spirit and shraeye in case you're wrong about EFHW.

[Jimmmmm]

One really, really big thing that acts in his (and Shraeye's) favor, is that mcmc claimed fool at the end of D1, when only they were online. If they were scum, they prob. would have killed him instead of yuma (was it yuma? I forget).

I still disagree with this fairly strongly. If mcmc had died Night 1, a huge focus on Day 2 would have been on shraeye and spirit as the only possible scum who were around for mcmc's claim.

I can see shraeye doing this as a vet. SB, he'd probably go "Hey, mcmc is fool! WE should kill him!" w/o his partner being there.

I agree it's more likely that a newbie scum would do this than a vet. But I don't think the chance of even newbie scum doing it is that high.

[mail-mi]

Insom's not online so there's not a lot of point hammering now. You also really need to give as much of your thoughts as possible about me, spirit and shraeye in case you're wrong about EFHW.

Im going to sleep in a half-hour. That's why

I will do this regarding NKs: If....

Shraeye dies, I don't know which of you two to suspect.

SB dies, I will suspect Shraeye a lot more because why would you kill SB if you thought you could push him to an easy mislynch?

Jimmmm dies, I will suspect shraeye more, but not as much as if SB dies.

I die, well that stinks, which is what probably will happen. So in that case, my prefered lynches for tomorrow in order are:

Shraeye>>>>> SB and Jimmm.

Which is pretty much to say that i think the jimmmm/SB argument is a town-town argument and that one of EFHW and shraeye is scum

[Jimmmmm]

You don't think spirit's jumping on the wagon and then doing "wagon analysis" could have been an attempt at Towncred?

[mail-mi]

You don't think spirit's jumping on the wagon and then doing "wagon analysis" could have been an attempt at Towncred?

True, true, didn't take that into account. He's more scummy than you, then. So now it's

Shraeye>>>>>SB>>>>>>You

[Jimmmmm]

Also, saying what you'll think if shraeye, spirit or I die tonight is unhelpful I think. Save that for tomorrow if you're still here. Now if that happens we're just stuck with WIFOM.

[mail-mi]

Also, saying what you'll think if shraeye, spirit or I die tonight is unhelpful I think. Save that for tomorrow if you're still here. Now if that happens we're just stuck with WIFOM.

WEll, let's hope i stay alive then.

Anybody else here to convince me to vote SB? Ya got about 12 minutes.

[mail-mi]

Alright, deadline is up! Good night to all, I hope to see you awake and alive in the morning. And a permanent good night to EFHW:











Building up suspense


















The suspense is killing you




















Will I suddenly switch my vote to SB?












Nope
Vote:EFHW

[Jimmmmm]

Let's hope you're right.

[Insomniac]

Thead Locked Momentarily

[Insomniac]

Final Vote Count Day 3

spiritbears (2) - Jimmmmm, EFHW,
EFHW (3) - shraeye, spiritbears, mail-mi

Not Voting (0)

[Insomniac]

shraeye, grabbed spiritbears and mail-mi its efhw he yelled! Together they made quick work of EFHW by tearing him apart with their bare hands. Once they'd done that they thought, "oh hey why didn't we check his belongings before...oh well lets do it now" so they checked his belongings among which they found nothing to denote witch or fool looks like he was just a normal villager.  That night when they were all asleep mail-mi's house blew up. When searching the wreckage they found his charred remains, and a seemingly unburnt uneaten corn husk, score! Don't know what mail-mi was gonna do with that.

efhw has been lynched he was a villager
mail-mi has been killed he was a fool

[Insomniac]

Day 4 Start

Thread Unlocked

Vote Count 4-0

Not Voting (3) - Jimmmmm, Shraeye, spiritbears

[Insomniac]

Deadline: 9:45pm PDT April 26 (12:45am April 27 forum time)

[Jimmmmm]

Okay. I'm about 80% sure it's spirit, but I'm not going to do anything rash just yet. I suggest we use as much of the time as we can so that I and the other Townie can make as informed a decision as possible.

[spiritbears]

Well I'm 100 certain it wasn't me. I went to bed thinking we had s good lunch,and woke up with this mess. Although, I'm almost sure it's jimm, I'm still putting a lot if stock into what happened with Mc. I think it clears shyrae. And if he's scum, he's a dsmn good one and deservves the win.

[spiritbears]

For what it's worth....Mai thought we were inter,,-town fighting and shy was scum. But, he did misread efhw. Also, I really depended on the case shy made against  efhw. So now not sure if I'm was being manipulated. One thing is certain, if the other town misvotes, scum will immediately jump on it and win. 
Jimm- I'm not sure why you are trying to manipulate everyone into misreading me after the the second night.  But I'm having s hard time getting past my emotions on this to see you as town....
Thinking back, shy was on my case until I saved Mc. Did he back off just so he could manipulate me later? Seems unlikely. 
This is a mess. I trust Shy a little mire than you I think.  But, I think your tunneling me is probably just misguided town.

[shraeye]

I'm very frustrated by that flip.  I'll deal with this stuff after I'm done teaching.

[Jimmmmm]

I'm still putting a lot if stock into what happened with Mc.

Remind me what happened with mc?

[shraeye]

jimmm, remind me of the case on spiritbears.

[Jimmmmm]

The crux of it is that he voted for Robz seemingly out of nowhere when it was already obvious Robz was going to be lynched, and then immediately after Robz' flip he started talking about wagon analysis as if he should get lots of Towncred for it.

[shraeye]

hmmmm. Spirit, what is your case on Jimmm?

[shraeye]

well, spirit was around, but seems to have no case on you jim.  I really don't have a case either.

What I DID notice was this post:

For what it's worth....Mai thought we were inter,,-town fighting and shy was scum. But, he did misread efhw. Also, I really depended on the case shy made against  efhw. So now not sure if I'm was being manipulated. One thing is certain, if the other town misvotes, scum will immediately jump on it and win. 
Jimm- I'm not sure why you are trying to manipulate everyone into misreading me after the the second night.  But I'm having s hard time getting past my emotions on this to see you as town....
Thinking back, shy was on my case until I saved Mc. Did he back off just so he could manipulate me later? Seems unlikely. 
This is a mess. I trust Shy a little mire than you I think.  But, I think your tunneling me is probably just misguided town.

The last sentence.  He's trusting me more than you, despite thinking that you're misguided town.  So he's saying we're both town.  And I think he's right about that.

It seems like he's now keeping his options open and hoping/waiting for one of us to vote for the other.  Well, I won't do it.;


Vote: spiritbears

[Jimmmmm]

Vote: spiritbears

[shraeye]

so jim, was I right or wrong?

[Jimmmmm]

Well that's a relief. I had a big case going and everything.

[Jimmmmm]

Man if I didn't know he was Town I really would think spirit was scum. gg everyone. I'm literally shaking right now.

[spiritbears]

Ok. Lets start with Mc. 
It eas very close to deadline. Mc had four votes, eevee had three.
The only ones online were MC,shy,me.  Mc asked that we stay online and try to work out some way to save him.  I said I thought the case eas too weak on Mc and pulled my vote off him (saving him) however, there eas still s question about eevee and with the three on him (I believe jimm eas one or not voting__need to Doublecheck). You ssaid you thought eevee was town so I didn't put my vote on eevee even though I was still a little Leary of your tunneling me.  Mc was saves but we lost eevee. UN my mind you were integral to making that happen. Next, whenwe ewere considering Robz, I wasn't quite on board with his lunch so I asked you for the case on him.  Since you knew his play s lit better then me, I trusted your case and joined that train. Shortly after, I asked for help putting together who was off train day one to see if there was correlation with anyone off train on day 2. This seemed lime the logical step: see who was not helpful both days. From what I put together it looked like to me there eas really only one good choice: jimmm (or not trusting you). I didn't plan on jimm finally showing up and tunneling me like mad, mostly by resorting to lying and distorting my request for help into: intentionally quickhammering robz (he still eveuidentky opposes the robz lynch, even after he flipped scum)
That's basically the case in him: off wagon/MIA st critical times,.and making really scummy cases on me. I bekeive both you and seversl others had good cas on him prior to the robz vote.  But I need to read back again.

[shraeye]

Well dang.

[Jimmmmm]

Okay, time for as much analysis as I have time for. The obvious place for me to start is spirit.

And besides I haven't flown under any radar.

What makes you say that?

I've been completely out in the open and willing to engage in every lynch proposal in this game.  I've been completely honest.  MC I think is omagus...but you, I don't know why you are doing this except to give you're buddy MC an opening.  Definitely goin to be keeping an eye on you.

Okay. Up until this point, spirit had sheeped mcmc and then voted for mcmc, which were both way too early to really conclude anything from. But he hadn't really said anything about shraeye. But then shraeye votes for him for "flying under the radar" and immediately spirit accuses shraeye of defending his buddy. I just think the pretty full-on acusation came really quickly.

Anyway, then we get to the end of Day 1. spirit unvotes mcmc shortly before the deadline, but it's worth noting that he did so before mcmc claimed. The reason he gave for doing so was "I'm still not convinced you're scum MC." But he didn't do anything to actually contribute to a lynch, he just unvoted. And what he'd done previously was ask mcmc to convince him about Eevee.

Eevee.

Vote: Eevee.


shoot at spiritbears.

Vvote Shyrae.  Weak cases, trying to direct kills he doesn't have.  Scum behavior.

FINAL Vote Count 1-6

EFHW (1) - Jimmmm, Eevee
Eevee (3) - Robz888, shraeye, mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (2) - yuma, EFHW
Shraeye (1) - spiritbears

Not Voting (1) - mail-mi

We get to talk all day tomorow about who I shoot right now we need to keep me alive so i can do it

I already kept you alive wen I unvoted

I LOVE YOU SPIRITBEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SO CLUTCH, thank you for bieng around to help really cannot see him bieng scum if i'm not nk'd.

I don't understand how you living clears him in particular.  Wouldn't any scum pair have rationally tried to NK you, unless they were bulletproof?

I think you living either is dangerous scum-play, or because they aren't afraid of you.

I guess I'm a little confused at MC's optimism.  Eevee gets mislunch and Yuma---a very helpful townie is gone.  Also, can someone explain to why we lost Eevee when he only had 3 votes?

We lynch the person with the most votes.

I am optimistic not that we lost 2 townies but that I am alive.

I am clearing you and shraeye due to the working to save me.

So that means confirmed town for me is: mcmc, shraeye, spirit, eevee, yuma
So our only possible scum is in: robz, jimm, efhw, mail-mi.

Neither of you have claimed fool so one of them is. That means we have 3 possible scum. If the other fool picked dayvig as well, thats game over we win bang bang lynch.

I'm not sure what Shyrae did to save you...other than he vocally disapproved of lunching Eevee, which I agreed with and I think gives him some decent town cred.

Well in to the our next play. I think Robzz has some answering to do for his tunneling Eevee z(MC you didn't disagree with hjs ultra-meta case). I'm less down to lynch Mai.  But that will depend on what he says and whether he joins this game in any real way.

I would prefer that you shoot, mcmc.  According to my calculations, shoot/lynch is the same as lynch/lynch.  Except one scenario where shooting gives 3/1 and lynching gives 2/1 (I consider those two the same, since no-lynches don't happen in blitz.)

I was thinking about why yuma died; I know that the longer he stays around the more suspicious I get of him, because I know him to be a very clever scumplayer.  However, he is also very dangerous as town.  I don't recall him fingering anybody with quite as much emphasis as others, so I could see him being killed solely because the scum team knows how dangerous he is as town.  This causes me to think that at least one vet is on the scumteam (robz or jimmm).  I don't think that the team is mail-mi/EFHW, for example.

Also, unless more claims/evidence can convince me otherwise, I'm thinking of mcmcsalot and spiritbears as town.

I generally agree with this statement.  I did find it problematic that you were (rather forcefully) directing Mc to shoot me, about the same time I saves him.  But you're plea for town Eevee did help convince me not to vote Eevee (unfortunately that wasn't enough to save him).  So I generally agree that that Shyrae and MC are likely town (not 100% sure but convincingly). 
I am getting concerned about Mai's absence extending into 2 days and Robz rather abrupt change of pace confuses me.  I think Efhw is more likely the town out of those three...and I don't follow MC's argument about his failure to remove the vote.  It was a frantic deadline and I'm wiing to cut him a little slack.

I'm inclined to believe Mai's claim. Not sure I'm on the robz wagon...someone care to sell me the case?

I don't know how you could have missed my play....oh ya, you werent around at that critical deadline

Thanks. I feel like our choices are really thin here, I don't have a clear scum read to fall back on.

That's just crazy Shyrae.  I have consistently said I don't don't think we have a great candidate.  I'm tryin to help us get to consensus.  How is that scummy???

I'm not in favor of a shyrae lynch. He was right about fever ans deserves credit for trying to derail that lynch.  I'm less enthusiastic about robZ. In fact I think that's where I'll park my vote for now.
vote:robz

I really hope we guessed right on robz! I'm afraid it will get very tricky for us if that was a mislynch.
Alsoi haven't forgotten the way shyrae agressuvely ride a weak case on me, and perhaps I'm giving too much credit for his corect call on Eevee.  But I don't have much else to go on. I guess I should reread how vigorous his evee defense was.  But it seemed genuine at the time. I'm also willing to give him credit fir trying to work with Mc and I at deadline when everyone else was absent.

We need a list of who was on which wagons when they went down. I think given what happened st the last deadline we should know Me,Mai and Shyrae are in the clear. (Mai because of uncontested fool claim).that lesves jimm and efhw.  Efhw sas on robz.  So i think jimmm is out best bet
vote:jimmmm

I find it pretty unlikely that spirit would quickhammer his partner like that. I mean, it's possible but I can't really see it coming from a newbie.

I'm a bit wary of this, though with spiritbears help on day1 combined with this, I feel like he definitely is standing townier.

The problem is that since the witches have daychat Robz could have posted to his partner and demanded that his partner vote for him.  If this were a non-blitz game and spirit had done that without any possible communicationtu, I would clear him straight away.  But since the possibility exists that Robz told spirit exactly when to hammer, I'm wary to clear him entirely.

I sas referring to day one! I wanted some help with how the votes went down that day to put together with those on robz wagon. Isn't that the logical step...?also, I don't see why scum* would want to lynch their partner with only one left seems illogical to me. way top easy to pick off the last scum

Ah, I didn't see that you were talking about day1. My mistake. 

There are, however, reasons for lynching a partner.  At that point, Robz's death seemed like a done deal.  It can often be good for a partner to hammer trying to gain town-credit rather than protest Robz's lynch, which happens anyway, and then it immediately casts suspicions on the person who tried to defend Robz down to the final moment.

If Robz was a done deal, that completely undercuts efhw's claim that we needed more time to talk about it. Look, I saved Mc. And I hammered scumrob. And evidently getting very little credit....exactly what help has jimmm been?  And Efhw. Complaining about a supposed "quick hammer" reads to me like he's upset he couldnt get his vote off robzz in time?

I agree that I haven't done much this game. I'm reminded why I almost swore off blitz games last time; they just never seem to suit me timewise.

Anyway. When I was asking shraeye before about what he thought of Robz I was considering the possibility of a shraeye/Robz team. shraeye continually going at Robz, and just sort of suggesting him in a bunch of different posts reminded me of yuma's bussing of Glooble in DS9. Off the top of my head, yuma didn't make a particularly solid case on Glooble, he just seemed to say, "What about Glooble? Why don't we lynch Glooble? Why has everyone forgotten about Glooble?" And of course they were scumbuddies. Could this be a similar situation? I don't know. What do others think, particularly mcmc and mail-mi? If we lynch Robz or shraeye, what if anything would their flip tell you about the other?

Here's the real dirt:  jimmm trying to set up shyrae after the immenent robzlynch.....
And particularly by asking the two fools to point the fos at shy

I'm not sure on EFHW yet, but I would be surprised if there wasn't scum in Robz/shraeye. Their more recent interactions have me talking myself around to exactly one scum, but I'm not sure.

Actually no one knew robzz had been lynched at that point.  But after we are made aware,he tries to push his non case on shy again without adding any information or any real case st all before the night fsll

I'm not sure on EFHW yet, but I would be surprised if there wasn't scum in Robz/shraeye. Their more recent interactions have me talking myself around to exactly one scum, but I'm not sure.

Actually no one knew robzz had been lynched at that point.  But after we are made aware,he tries to push his non case on shy again without adding any information or any real case st all before the night fsll

If I'm scum then I was actually doing the opposite of pushing a case on shraeye.

I agree with Jimmm's assessment here.  With that post (and given Robz's alignment), he was actually arguing against a shraeye lynch.

You've got to be joking.  There never was any shyrae lynch.  He was simply throwing dirt against the wall to see what would stick.  Tying you to robz without having to openly question it.

I don't see anything in what you just posted that casts any suspicion on shyrae. He rode robz hard.  And was right to do so.  His case on robz is what helped me cone around to a robz lynch and his case against eevee kept me from switching to an eevee vote when I saved Mc. 
Shy is town. No dout.
And it makes perfect sense for jimm to want to lynch me and ignore what Mc wanted us to do after robz....fund the other scum, which I now have no doubts about that being jimm. Im so sure, you can lunch me and when I flip town immediately get rid of him. (2-1).
I'll even self hammer

I dont' think a self-sacrifice will help town in this case.  For example, eevee's sacrifice to save mcmcsalot was a good one.  But now, our main goal is to focus all efforts on finding the last scum.

What are your thoughts on EFHW and Jimmmm.  I've seen you be critical of both of them.  Which is more worrisome?

Yes.  I was on efhw early,but  he handled it very well and didn't seem to be deflection. Since that time I don't think Ivebseen any hard evidence ieither way
Jimm on the other hand,while helpful at times, it seems to me hid "help" is more often than not--not psrticularly helpful and seems more like distractions désignés to keep town chasing our tails. Im fairly confident in my jimm vote.  And not because of his defensive reaction to me, but more because I think he's the best candidate given his non action day one and wrong action day2

I dont' think a self-sacrifice will help town in this case.  For example, eevee's sacrifice to save mcmcsalot was a good one.  But now, our main goal is to focus all efforts on finding the last scum.

What are your thoughts on EFHW and Jimmmm.  I've seen you be critical of both of them.  Which is more worrisome?

Yes.  I was on efhw early,but  he handled it very well and didn't seem to be deflection. Since that time I don't think Ivebseen any hard evidence ieither way

EFHW is still a she.

Jimm on the other hand,while helpful at times, it seems to me hid "help" is more often than not--not psrticularly helpful and seems more like distractions désignés to keep town chasing our tails. Im fairly confident in my jimm vote.  And not because of his defensive reaction to me, but more because I think he's the best candidate given his non action day one and wrong action day2

What wrong action are you talking about?

I'm sorry e!..my appoligies

By wrong action I mean his failure to be on the robz bus.

Here is the full extent of everything spirit said about Robz before he hammered him (I don't think I missed anything):

Well in to the our next play. I think Robzz has some answering to do for his tunneling Eevee z(MC you didn't disagree with hjs ultra-meta case). I'm less down to lynch Mai.  But that will depend on what he says and whether he joins this game in any real way.

I am getting concerned about Mai's absence extending into 2 days and Robz rather abrupt change of pace confuses me.

I'm inclined to believe Mai's claim. Not sure I'm on the robz wagon...someone care to sell me the case?

Okay, I'm not sure if we're supposed to interpret the second sentence as "Not sure I'm on the Robz wagon" or "I'm not sure on the Robz wagon". But either way this just reads to me like he's saying "Someone give me a reason to bus so that I can jump on the wagon and everyone will think I'm Town." The others, "Robz has some answering" and "Robz confuses me" are typical hedgy scum lines.

I'm not in favor of a shyrae lynch. He was right about fever ans deserves credit for trying to derail that lynch.  I'm less enthusiastic about robZ. In fact I think that's where I'll park my vote for now.
vote:robz

And then of course this weird hammer, and "I'm less enthusiastic about Robz" is all the reasoning he could come up with.

Nothing unreasonable there. I admitted derphammer so your continued tunneling of me looks with absolutely nothing to back it up is what looks scummy and desperate

So you admit to derphammering and then FoS everyone who had enough of a grasp on the game to not derphammer?

That's not what happened and it's a total scum play for you to try to twist it that way.  I derphammered and then asked for help putting together who was off wagon day one (not day two as you keep dishonestly claiming).  It's pretty clear what's going on here: you disliked my analysis of who the logicsl scum parted was (you) and are trying to distract the rest of town from putting it together. The only FoS I raised was for you....completely deserving obviously scum.

I've actually spent this time doing a total reread of Jimmmm, (which I can post, if you want to see it).  I didn't find anything that struck me as scummy.  So that leaves me with Spirit and Shraeye.  There's a case to be made against Spirit, as we all know.  I don't have much to point to re: Shraeye, except that the case he is currently making on me is quite thin.  Town wanting to believe a thin case or scum trying to press one?

"As we all know"? Or rather. As Jimmm has tunneled and you're hoping for traction.
Shy makes a good read of you and he has generally had a good bead on scum this game
I think jimm is certainly defensive and has made some really scummy arguments about me, but it's probably just s big distraction.
Going away for night,but going to get in shy's train first
unvote; vote efhw

For what it's worth....Mai thought we were inter,,-town fighting and shy was scum. But, he did misread efhw. Also, I really depended on the case shy made against  efhw. So now not sure if I'm was being manipulated. One thing is certain, if the other town misvotes, scum will immediately jump on it and win. 
Jimm- I'm not sure why you are trying to manipulate everyone into misreading me after the the second night.  But I'm having s hard time getting past my emotions on this to see you as town....
Thinking back, shy was on my case until I saved Mc. Did he back off just so he could manipulate me later? Seems unlikely. 
This is a mess. I trust Shy a little mire than you I think.  But, I think your tunneling me is probably just misguided town.

[shraeye]

The problem is, each of you had done subtle things that convinced me you were town.  And I saw a few things from each of you that at times convinced me you were scum.  Very very back and forth in my mind, that was.

[spiritbears]

Way to go

[yuma]

can i post now? RAGE!

[Jimmmmm]

^ That's what I was working on. I was then going to do as much as I could on shraeye to appear like I was really trying to nut it out. Then I was going to get as much as I could out of confirmed Towns. So many of them had Townreads on me.

[shraeye]

Sorry Spirit, I was really really confused/lost at the end there, and it looked like you were backing off of Jimmm slightly too quickly.  That's what finally pushed me to make that bad decision.

Man! I should have trusted my instincts on you!

[spiritbears]

The problem is, each of you had done subtle things that convinced me you were town.  And I saw a few things from each of you that at times convinced me you were scum.  Very very back and forth in my mind, that was.

Why didn't you give me a chance to respond?:?::::::
Ridiculous

[shraeye]

^ That's what I was working on. I was then going to do as much as I could on shraeye to appear like I was really trying to nut it out. Then I was going to get as much as I could out of confirmed Towns. So many of them had Townreads on me.

I put very little credit in what dead townsfolk say.

[yuma]

I had called the jimmm/robz scum team way back in the quicktopic. Good thing you guys killed me off night1!

Nice job robz/jimmm!

[Jimmmmm]

I think being Blitz and my actually being busy had me sort of playing catch up all game. In LoTR I really felt like I had some degree of control, but in this game I just couldn't play the "pro-Town" game I would have liked to. Believe me though. Lurking as scum is never ever ever my plan. When I'm scum, I want to say as much as I can, and I'm generally confident in my ability to appear Towny. If anything if I was Town in this game I probably would have posted less.

[shraeye]

You did a great game Jimmmm, and I made a series of bad decisions with EFHW, with spirit.  Man, I was on every lynch wagon there.

Anyway, what tipped you off to Robz/Jimmm, yuma?

[shraeye]

and spirit, next time you need me to make a snap decision in your favor, just say "hey man, you owe me one"

[Jimmmmm]

^ That's what I was working on. I was then going to do as much as I could on shraeye to appear like I was really trying to nut it out. Then I was going to get as much as I could out of confirmed Towns. So many of them had Townreads on me.

I put very little credit in what dead townsfolk say.

Yeah, I know. Around the EFHW lynch I was really tossing up whether I should change and keep mail-mi, my biggest supporter at the time alive. But I knew I had the most reason to keep him alive, and all I'd have to argue was WIFOM.

[yuma]

post count:

1. Jimmmmm  - 69
2. Mcmcsalot - 83
3. Shraeye - 110
4. Eevee - 30
5. EFHW - 66
6. Robz888 - 65
7. Spiritbears - 60
8. Mail-Mi - 27
9. yuma - 25

[Jimmmmm]

Also, spirit's derphammer annoyed me, because I was ready to do the pro-Town hammer.

[spiritbears]

and spirit, next time you need me to make a snap decision in your favor, just say "hey man, you owe me one"
[/quotel. Don't worry.  I'll definitely hang on to that marker

[shraeye]

post count:

1. Jimmmmm  - 69
2. Mcmcsalot - 83
3. Shraeye - 110
4. Eevee - 30
5. EFHW - 66
6. Robz888 - 65
7. Spiritbears - 60
8. Mail-Mi - 27
9. yuma - 25

I literally cannot believe how high my postcount is.  I guess it was inflated because I was alive for the whole time.  But maybe I just missed playing mafia, it had been a while.

[shraeye]

Also, spirit's derphammer annoyed me, because I was ready to do the pro-Town hammer.

Well clearly scum-hammers aren't protown enough to stop silly people from lynching you...

[yuma]

You did a great game Jimmmm, and I made a series of bad decisions with EFHW, with spirit.  Man, I was on every lynch wagon there.

Anyway, what tipped you off to Robz/Jimmm, yuma?

I had just typed this up in the quicktopic like one minute before you voted:

I think it is Jimmm. His assertion that shraeye was doing what I was doing to Glooble in MXIX is false. It isn't the same. And I don't think he would make that assertion if I were still in the game. It is especially not true because bussing in blitz doesn't work the same as bussing in a regular mafia game, and I am starting to believe that hardcore bussing rarely works in regular games as well.

Furthermore, I found it very suspicious that Robz was all over mail-mi for lurking but never mentioned Jimmm about it. Now the situations were a bit different in that mail-mi had a VLA that was a bit odd and Jimmmm posted a bit more, but still had a VLA excuse.

And I think Jimmm was trying to set up a spiritbears mislynch yesterday followed today by a mislynch of you. I think he is in a slightly tighter spot today, but he may be able to get away with it.

I would be very surprised if it were either spiritbears or shraeye.

and this a day or so ago:

I think shraeye is town. Jimmm did try and set up the shraeye-Robz bussing thing. Which to me is nothing like my bussing on Glooble and was in a completely different game where we had 3 on a scum team. That sort of bussing in a blitz game is what causes scum to lose. I think Jimmm tried a shraeye mislynch to start, saw an opportunity with spiritbears and will retry the shraeye thing tomorrow with efhw to tag along.

[shraeye]

aha, well I never bothered once to check up on the reference to glooble/yuma.  shame on me.

[spiritbears]

Also, spirit's derphammer annoyed me, because I was ready to do the pro-Town hammer.

Well clearly scum-hammers aren't protown enough to stop silly people from lynching you...

Yes I was really surprised my hammer of robz was so sucessfulky turned against me

[yuma]

Also sorry to everyone for bringing up the mail-mi VLA being scummy thing, although it was interesting to see how hard robz jumped on it!

We had a semi-discussion about it in the quicktopic a bit that was interesting as well.

[Jimmmmm]

That's basically the case in him: off wagon/MIA st critical times,.and making really scummy cases on me. I bekeive both you and seversl others had good cas on him prior to the robz vote.  But I need to read back again.

I actually genuinely disagree with this case. I was off the wagon because you jumped on before I had a chance to do it in a Towny fashion. I was offline at critical times because I was working and I had no way around that. And I do believe in my case on. I was quite ready to go for EFHW and shraeye, but your wagon analysis after derphammering actually seemed really scummy to me.

[spiritbears]

You did a great game Jimmmm, and I made a series of bad decisions with EFHW, with spirit.  Man, I was on every lynch wagon there.

Anyway, what tipped you off to Robz/Jimmm, yuma?

I had just typed this up in the quicktopic like one minute before you voted:

I think it is Jimmm. His assertion that shraeye was doing what I was doing to Glooble in MXIX is false. It isn't the same. And I don't think he would make that assertion if I were still in the game. It is especially not true because bussing in blitz doesn't work the same as bussing in a regular mafia game, and I am starting to believe that hardcore bussing rarely works in regular games as well.

Furthermore, I found it very suspicious that Robz was all over mail-mi for lurking but never mentioned Jimmm about it. Now the situations were a bit different in that mail-mi had a VLA that was a bit odd and Jimmmm posted a bit more, but still had a VLA excuse.

And I think Jimmm was trying to set up a spiritbears mislynch yesterday followed today by a mislynch of you. I think he is in a slightly tighter spot today, but he may be able to get away with it.

I would be very surprised if it were either spiritbears or shraeye.

and this a day or so ago:

I think shraeye is town. Jimmm did try and set up the shraeye-Robz bussing thing. Which to me is nothing like my bussing on Glooble and was in a completely different game where we had 3 on a scum team. That sort of bussing in a blitz game is what causes scum to lose. I think Jimmm tried a shraeye mislynch to start, saw an opportunity with spiritbears and will retry the shraeye thing tomorrow with efhw to tag along.

Very nice call. You nailed it!

[shraeye]

Yeah, I know taht Jimmm holds different hours than others, due the Australia and his working.  I guess it's one of the things that rushed me into making this bad decision, I wasn't sure when Jimmm would be online in the future, and had seen that both spirit/Jimmm were online now.

[mcmcsalot]

Yea good job guys. I guess I back to aiming for best scum win record, I think my overall ratio is shot.

[shraeye]

My overall win rate has been tanking for a while.

[Jimmmmm]

@yuma, shraeye really did remind me of you in DS9. You both seemed to be mentioning the other a lot possibly just to remind everyone you were voting for them. That was my take. I'm not sure if I would have made that argument with you still in the game; you not being around didn't factor into my thought process.

[Insomniac]

Shraeye said its spiritbears lets do this! Jimm without hesitation happily helped shraeye with this. Then once spiritbears was dead he placed a bomb in shraeyes back pocket and with a smile on his face walked away as shraeye was blown into a million pieces. A small chunk of shraeye hit jimmm in the back as he was walking away he quickly brushed it off of himself and continued walking as a grin creeped across his face.

GAME OVER, WITCHES WIN

[shraeye]

Glad my exploded pieces at least got jimmm's clothing dirty.

[EFHW]

gg guys.  Jimmmmm - I'm thinking of policy lynching you from now on.  There was nothing obviously scummy -- I guess I could have looked up the Glooble thing. 

What will happen to the children?  Is Jimmmmm going to eat them for dinner?

[Jimmmmm]

Also, spirit's derphammer annoyed me, because I was ready to do the pro-Town hammer.

Well clearly scum-hammers aren't protown enough to stop silly people from lynching you...

Yes I was really surprised my hammer of robz was so sucessfulky turned against me

Please understand. It wasn't the hammer. It was that you came right out afterwards wanting to do wagon analysis. I was really surprised how hard it was to convince people that that was a scum plan.

[yuma]

@yuma, shraeye really did remind me of you in DS9. You both seemed to be mentioning the other a lot possibly just to remind everyone you were voting for them. That was my take. I'm not sure if I would have made that argument with you still in the game; you not being around didn't factor into my thought process.

that is fair... But I think the big thing was that I would argue that that sort of heavy bussing all game long rarely results in a town win. I mean, it did nothing for me in MXIX when I even got glooble lynched for it!

I think that sort of heavy handed bussing will result in a scum loss most of the time and is something that scum won't do. So I saw your argument that it could be as such to be extremely forced and looking for something to make shraeye look scummier, who I thought played the best and towniest game out of everyone up until his vote for spiritbears

[Insomniac]

Quicktopics:
Mod (Notes for me): http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/JGEtCUEvD74y
Mail-Mi Neighbourhood: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/pbFfbSrZtNd
Scum QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/Efy99d2SPxLi
Spectator QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/kBP4LHhL43UB

[Jimmmmm]

Thanks for hosting Insom.

[EFHW]

Shraeye - How could I have persuaded you I was town?

[spiritbears]

That's basically the case in hiI pointed  it up your misread : off wagon/MIA st critical times,.and making really scummy cases on me. I bekeive both you and seversl others had good cas on him prior to the robz vote.  But I need to read back again.

I actually genuinely disagree with this case. I was off the wagon because you jumped on before I had a chance to do it in a Towny fashion. I was offline at critical times because I was working and I had no way around that. And I do believe in my case on. I was quite ready to go for EFHW and shraeye, but your wagon analysis after derphammering actually seemed really scummy to me.

That is only true if you actually think I was talking about day 2 but when I called you out on that, you never backed down and continued to use that as an argument against me even when I pointed out your misread .  Probably if shy would have reread that section he would have seen your false argument and how you bussed it even after I clarified.

[Jimmmmm]

@yuma, shraeye really did remind me of you in DS9. You both seemed to be mentioning the other a lot possibly just to remind everyone you were voting for them. That was my take. I'm not sure if I would have made that argument with you still in the game; you not being around didn't factor into my thought process.

that is fair... But I think the big thing was that I would argue that that sort of heavy bussing all game long rarely results in a town win. I mean, it did nothing for me in MXIX when I even got glooble lynched for it!

I think that sort of heavy handed bussing will result in a scum loss most of the time and is something that scum won't do. So I saw your argument that it could be as such to be extremely forced and looking for something to make shraeye look scummier, who I thought played the best and towniest game out of everyone up until his vote for spiritbears

I was happy to conclude that they probably weren't on a team. In fact, I said that just a few posts after. But no one answered my questions about it. The Townie in me just didn't want to ignore that possibility.

[Insomniac]

MVP: Jimmmm
he had most people convinced he was town even in the Speccy QT


Also this setup has been run twice, with a scum win and with a town win, with vig being chosen 3 times and neighbourizer once. If I were to run this setup again I might try to make the cop choice more appealing but as it stands im convinced the setup is fairly balanced.

Others thoughts?

[mcmcsalot]

Shraeye - How could I have persuaded you I was town?

Been around at deadline D1. Honestly that's the crunch time in blitz when town just goes crazy making sure pro town stuff happens and scum cannot keep up.

[EFHW]

Shraeye - How could I have persuaded you I was town?

Been around at deadline D1. Honestly that's the crunch time in blitz when town just goes crazy making sure pro town stuff happens and scum cannot keep up.

But I absolutely could not have been there, which I explained (and warned everyone of).  There must be some other way!

[shraeye]

Shraeye - How could I have persuaded you I was town?

I don't know.  The world would be a much more frightening place if anyone (including me) knew how my mind worked.

[spiritbears]

MVP: Jimmmm
he had most people convinced he was town even in the Speccy QT


Also this setup has been run twice, with a scum win and with a town win, with vig being chosen 3 times and neighbourizer once. If I were to run this setup again I might try to make the cop choice more appealing but as it stands im convinced the setup is fairly balanced.

Others thoughts?

Very balanced and well run.  Thank you for hosting and keeping it moving so quickly!!!!

[Galzria]

The biggest indication Jimmm was scum is that Robz was throwing a hissy over mail-mi's absence, but staying mute about Jimmm's lack of participation.

[spiritbears]

Shraeye - How could I have persuaded you I was town?

Been around at deadline D1. Honestly that's the crunch time in blitz when town just goes crazy making sure pro town stuff happens and scum cannot keep up.

But I absolutely could not have been there, which I explained (and warned everyone of).  There must be some other way!

I appokize for my part in that. I never had a good scum read on you but went with Shyrae because untrusted him most of who was left.  That was the only other time I felt let down by him

[Jimmmmm]

That's basically the case in hiI pointed  it up your misread : off wagon/MIA st critical times,.and making really scummy cases on me. I bekeive both you and seversl others had good cas on him prior to the robz vote.  But I need to read back again.

I actually genuinely disagree with this case. I was off the wagon because you jumped on before I had a chance to do it in a Towny fashion. I was offline at critical times because I was working and I had no way around that. And I do believe in my case on. I was quite ready to go for EFHW and shraeye, but your wagon analysis after derphammering actually seemed really scummy to me.

That is only true if you actually think I was talking about day 2 but when I called you out on that, you never backed down and continued to use that as an argument against me even when I pointed out your misread .  Probably if shy would have reread that section he would have seen your false argument and how you bussed it even after I clarified.

Okay, I'm pulling up the quote to work this out, because I still think you were talking about Day 2.

We need a list of who was on which wagons when they went down. I think given what happened st the last deadline we should know Me,Mai and Shyrae are in the clear. (Mai because of uncontested fool claim).that lesves jimm and efhw.  Efhw sas on robz.  So i think jimmm is out best bet
vote:jimmmm

Okay, so "We need a list of who was on which wagons when they went down." That's talking about both days. And the obvious one to talk about is the one that just happened at hit scum right?
"I think given what happened st the last deadline we should know Me,Mai and Shyrae are in the clear. (Mai because of uncontested fool claim)." Okay, I guess that's talking about Day 1.
"that lesves jimm and efhw.  Efhw sas on robz.  So i think jimmm is out best bet" Unless I'm mistaken you're separating EFHW and me by who was on the Robz lynch. You ended up voting for me because I wasn't on the Robz lynch, right? But you prevented me from being on the Robz lynch by jumping on before I could.

[Jimmmmm]

Shraeye - How could I have persuaded you I was town?

Been around at deadline D1. Honestly that's the crunch time in blitz when town just goes crazy making sure pro town stuff happens and scum cannot keep up.

Believe me, I HATED not being around for the deadline.

[shraeye]

would you ahve kept yuma as the kill, after mcmcsalots claim?

As scum, I would have killed mcmcsalot.  Then do my darned bestest to argue my way out of it.

[Jimmmmm]

Also, Robz' and my plan at the start of the game was for him to lurk and then appear and act really scummy and I'd have to conclude that unhelpful Robz is Town Robz. So now next time he does it we know that he's planned to do it as scum before.
You're welcome.

[EFHW]

The only suggestion I would make is getting some kind of input before setting a deadline that will be the same everyday, especially if it's going to be in the middle of the day when people have work and school.  I know time zones are an issue, too, so maybe some changing around would be more fair.  Just a thought.

[Jimmmmm]

would you ahve kept yuma as the kill, after mcmcsalots claim?

As scum, I would have killed mcmcsalot.  Then do my darned bestest to argue my way out of it.

Interesting. In hindsight I was wishing that I'd jumped on for a minute, seen the claim and killed mcmc without anyone noticing I was there.

[EFHW]

The biggest indication Jimmm was scum is that Robz was throwing a hissy over mail-mi's absence, but staying mute about Jimmm's lack of participation.

Good point.  I took that as evidence of Robz being scum, but I should have taken it the next step further.

[spiritbears]

[ author=Jimmmmm link=topic=6684.msg233206#msg233206 date=1366994448]

That's basically the case in hiI pointed  it up your misread : off wagon/MIA st critical times,.and making really scummy cases on me. I bekeive both you and seversl others had good cas on him prior to the robz vote.  But I need to read back again.

I actually genuinely disagree with this case. I was off the wagon because you jumped on before I had a chance to do it in a Towny fashion. I was offline at critical times because I was working and I had no way around that. And I do believe in my case on. I was quite ready to go for EFHW and shraeye, but your wagon analysis after derphammering actually seemed really scummy to me.

That is only true if you actually think I was talking about day 2 but when I called you out on that, you never backed down and continued to use that as an argument against me even when I pointed out your misread .  Probably if shy would have reread that section he would have seen your false argument and how you bussed it even after I clarified.

Okay, I'm pulling up the quote to work this out, because I still think you were talking about Day 2.

We need a list of who was on which wagons when they went down. I think given what happened st the last deadline we should know Me,Mai and Shyrae are in the clear. (Mai because of uncontested fool claim).that lesves jimm and efhw.  Efhw sas on robz.  So i think jimmm is out best bet
vote:jimmmm

Okay, so "We need a list of who was on which wagons when they went down." That's talking about both days. And the obvious one to talk about is the one that just happened at hit scum right?
"I think given what happened st the last deadline we should know Me,Mai and Shyrae are in the clear. (Mai because of uncontested fool claim)." Okay, I guess that's talking about Day 1.
"that lesves jimm and efhw.  Efhw sas on robz.  So i think jimmm is out best bet" Unless I'm mistaken you're separating EFHW and me by who was on the Robz lynch. You ended up voting for me because I wasn't on the Robz lynch, right? But you prevented me from being on the Robz lynch by jumping on before I could.
[/Quote]
That is not the argument you kept making in the game. And your repeatedly calling me scummy from this exchsnge had people doubting me.  It was s wonderfully scummy tactic. I just can't believe Shyrae didn't see through it. Since it was basically the crux of your case against me....disappointed really

[EFHW]

I like blitz, though.  I'm so impatient in the longer games.

[spiritbears]

Also, Robz' and my plan at the start of the game was for him to lurk and then appear and act really scummy and I'd have to conclude that unhelpful Robz is Town Robz. So now next time he does it we know that he's planned to do it as scum before.
You're welcome.

So the feingned outrage when I suggested you were lurking.....

[spiritbears]

I like blitz, though.  I'm so impatient in the longer games.

I agree. This is so much funner to play!!! I like the quick deadlines and quick night times!!

[Jimmmmm]

Also, Robz' and my plan at the start of the game was for him to lurk and then appear and act really scummy and I'd have to conclude that unhelpful Robz is Town Robz. So now next time he does it we know that he's planned to do it as scum before.
You're welcome.

So the feingned outrage when I suggested you were lurking.....

Not feigned. I didn't appreciate being told I couldn't be bothered turning up when I really was doing my best.

[Jimmmmm]

It was never the plan for me to lurk.

[EFHW]

So we were right about Robz trying to get vigged - he chose suicidal.

[Jimmmmm]

That's basically the case in hiI pointed  it up your misread : off wagon/MIA st critical times,.and making really scummy cases on me. I bekeive both you and seversl others had good cas on him prior to the robz vote.  But I need to read back again.

I actually genuinely disagree with this case. I was off the wagon because you jumped on before I had a chance to do it in a Towny fashion. I was offline at critical times because I was working and I had no way around that. And I do believe in my case on. I was quite ready to go for EFHW and shraeye, but your wagon analysis after derphammering actually seemed really scummy to me.

That is only true if you actually think I was talking about day 2 but when I called you out on that, you never backed down and continued to use that as an argument against me even when I pointed out your misread .  Probably if shy would have reread that section he would have seen your false argument and how you bussed it even after I clarified.

Okay, I'm pulling up the quote to work this out, because I still think you were talking about Day 2.

We need a list of who was on which wagons when they went down. I think given what happened st the last deadline we should know Me,Mai and Shyrae are in the clear. (Mai because of uncontested fool claim).that lesves jimm and efhw.  Efhw sas on robz.  So i think jimmm is out best bet
vote:jimmmm

Okay, so "We need a list of who was on which wagons when they went down." That's talking about both days. And the obvious one to talk about is the one that just happened at hit scum right?
"I think given what happened st the last deadline we should know Me,Mai and Shyrae are in the clear. (Mai because of uncontested fool claim)." Okay, I guess that's talking about Day 1.
"that lesves jimm and efhw.  Efhw sas on robz.  So i think jimmm is out best bet" Unless I'm mistaken you're separating EFHW and me by who was on the Robz lynch. You ended up voting for me because I wasn't on the Robz lynch, right? But you prevented me from being on the Robz lynch by jumping on before I could.

That is not the argument you kept making in the game. And your repeatedly calling me scummy from this exchsnge had people doubting me.  It was s wonderfully scummy tactic. I just can't believe Shyrae didn't see through it. Since it was basically the crux of your case against me....disappointed really

I think we're misunderstanding each other somehow. I thought and still think it was a solid case.

[Jimmmmm]

I think in order for me to play another Blitz game any time soon it'd have to be at a very convenient time and I'd have to know exactly when it was going to be before signing up.

[Jimmmmm]

Interesting that yuma named me as scum because he disagreed with my shraeye/Robz thing. But I wasn't actually trying to set up a shraeye lynch. I was trying to generate discussion and get people's thoughts on an interaction. I guess I didn't want people to assume that shraeye was Town after Robz' lynch, but I mostly just wanted to talk about it and see what people thought. Not sure how I could have done it differently.

[Jimmmmm]

So we were right about Robz trying to get vigged - he chose suicidal.

I could be wrong, but I don't think he was trying to be vigged. I think he was just trying to be Unhelpful Town Robz.

[Robz888]

Great job, Jimm! You really carried us.

I wasn't trying to get vigged, I just thought acting crazy was my best way to look town. It worked for a little bit, I think, but overall, failed.

I do think that in a Blitz game, scum will try to use VLA to their advantage in small ways--this does happen. But no, it didn't make him obvscum. That was just hyperbole that I hoped would make you think I was town.

I was also deliberately condescending and a tad mean. I didn't mean any of it and wasn't remotely upset! It was all for show.

[shraeye]

I think in order for me to play another Blitz game any time soon it'd have to be at a very convenient time and I'd have to know exactly when it was going to be before signing up.

I actually think your participation level was just great.  A blitz game should almost always be done somewhere areound 20 pages, and this one lasted the full time.

[Jimmmmm]

Hmm, thanks. I guess I just had fairly long unavoidable patches where I couldn't be around. And don't feel bad about lynching spirit. I'm pretty sure I would have lynched him if I was Town. Suddenly joining the EFHW lynch and then calling me probTown but trusting you more were pretty good grounds for a lynch.

spirit, can I suggest trying to make your posts clearer with less typos? It goes a long way towards helping people understand you.

[Jimmmmm]

Robz, did you agree with my decision to kill mcmc before mail-mi, or would you have stuck with mail-mi?

[Jimmmmm]

Shraeye said its spiritbears lets do this! Jimm without hesitation happily helped shraeye with this. Then once spiritbears was dead he placed a bomb in shraeyes back pocket and with a smile on his face walked away as shraeye was blown into a million pieces. A small chunk of shraeye hit jimmm in the back as he was walking away he quickly brushed it off of himself and continued walking as a grin creeped across his face.

GAME OVER, WITCHES WIN

[mail-mi]

gg jimmmmm I had my reads all wrong on you.

[Robz888]

Robz, did you agree with my decision to kill mcmc before mail-mi, or would you have stuck with mail-mi?

No, I think your decision was correct. Keeping mcmc alive was only important if I was still alive.

[mcmcsalot]

Robz, did you agree with my decision to kill mcmc before mail-mi, or would you have stuck with mail-mi?

No, I think your decision was correct. Keeping mcmc alive was only important if I was still alive.

Why is this?

[Robz888]

Robz, did you agree with my decision to kill mcmc before mail-mi, or would you have stuck with mail-mi?

No, I think your decision was correct. Keeping mcmc alive was only important if I was still alive.

Why is this?

I thought I could work you better than mail mi.

[mcmcsalot]

Robz, did you agree with my decision to kill mcmc before mail-mi, or would you have stuck with mail-mi?

No, I think your decision was correct. Keeping mcmc alive was only important if I was still alive.

Why is this?

I thought I could work you better than mail mi.

Reasonable, especially if you convinced me to not lynch you that day you could probably get through another one.

[mail-mi]

Haha i just realized I've been in exactly one completed game of each type--and lost exactly one completed game of each type. I have yet to win a mafia game  .

[shraeye]

Haha i just realized I've been in exactly one completed game of each type--and lost exactly one completed game of each type. I have yet to win a mafia game  .

Strategy: don't be on shraeye's team so he can't tank things for you.

[mail-mi]

Haha i just realized I've been in exactly one completed game of each type--and lost exactly one completed game of each type. I have yet to win a mafia game  .

Strategy: don't be on shraeye's team so he can't tank things for you.

Actually, I think this is the only game i've been in with you

[liopoil]

There was a speccy? oops... I was semi-following this. I remember thinking that spiritbears was town, but I had no idea if it was Jimmmmm or shraeye...


Should I open my blitz game? Shraeye and EFHW have looked at it... I think Shraeye still wants to look closer at it. I could just open it and let everyone help tweak it.

[Insomniac]

There was a speccy? oops... I was semi-following this. I remember thinking that spiritbears was town, but I had no idea if it was Jimmmmm or shraeye...


Should I open my blitz game? Shraeye and EFHW have looked at it... I think Shraeye still wants to look closer at it. I could just open it and let everyone help tweak it.

There wasn't at first, people kept wanting a speccy thread so I made one. I had actually decided to not make one for this game because they don't tend to be very popular games to spectate based on how fast everything moves.

[shraeye]

There was a speccy? oops... I was semi-following this. I remember thinking that spiritbears was town, but I had no idea if it was Jimmmmm or shraeye...


Should I open my blitz game? Shraeye and EFHW have looked at it... I think Shraeye still wants to look closer at it. I could just open it and let everyone help tweak it.

I'd still wait a bit.  Grujah's game is kicking off, and it's nice to have a pause of at least a week between blitz games.

[spiritbears]

Hmm, thanks. I guess I just had fairly long unavoidable patches where I couldn't be around. And don't feel bad about lynching spirit. I'm pretty sure I would have lynched him if I was Town. Suddenly joining the EFHW lynch and then calling me probTown but trusting you more were pretty good grounds for a lynch.

spirit, can I suggest trying to make your posts clearer with less typos? It goes a long way towards helping people understand you.

I think I made this clear, but in case you missed it, I am disabled. Typing is extremely difficult for me. I just got a new phone to help me, but it's very difficult to make corrections with it.  I am always amazed that people go out of thier way to avoid making gender mistakes but don't take the time to try with the same enthusiasm to avoid calling people out for disabilities that we also have no control over. I know my typing sucks. I do my best but sometimes it takes me forever to get s single sentences out.

[Jimmmmm]

Hmm, thanks. I guess I just had fairly long unavoidable patches where I couldn't be around. And don't feel bad about lynching spirit. I'm pretty sure I would have lynched him if I was Town. Suddenly joining the EFHW lynch and then calling me probTown but trusting you more were pretty good grounds for a lynch.

spirit, can I suggest trying to make your posts clearer with less typos? It goes a long way towards helping people understand you.

I think I made this clear, but in case you missed it, I am disabled. Typing is extremely difficult for me. I just got a new phone to help me, but it's very difficult to make corrections with it.  I am always amazed that people go out of thier way to avoid making gender mistakes but don't take the time to try with the same enthusiasm to avoid calling people out for disabilities that we also have no control over. I know my typing sucks. I do my best but sometimes it takes me forever to get s single sentences out.

Okay, I had no idea and I'm sorry if I offended you.

[spiritbears]

I probably should have done s better job explaining earlier. None taken.

[yuma]

I finally read the scum QT:

I should make Kill: yuma our default order.

I am going to be flattered by this, I think. Was there any other reasoning behind my night1 kill?

[Robz888]

I finally read the scum QT:

I should make Kill: yuma our default order.

I am going to be flattered by this, I think. Was there any other reasoning behind my night1 kill?

Nope! You've been playing really well.

Too well...