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[Witherweaver]

And if you never use the tokens for any of the turns? Sure, you can wait to use them up for another play of Possession, but that just forces your opponent to use them up before that next play.

It was more of a joking reply anyway.

But seriously -- if your opponent was foolish enough to leave coin tokens available after you had purchased Possession, thn maybe you should leave those tokens alone for future Possession turns, especially if you can play Possession enough that you expect to use their deck more than your own.

Your opponent could have been carefully tracking your deck and was certain you couldn't play a Possession, and simply made an error in his tracking.  Or, your opponent was in a state where his only chance to win would be to spend his coin tokens next turn. (Say, one Province left, he only had $7 with tokens but new he would draw enough for $8 next turn), but he also knew that you didn't have enough economy to buy the Province on your own.  Thus his only chance of winning is to gamble on the chance that you don't have a Possession and he can end the game next turn.)

[markusin]

And if you never use the tokens for any of the turns? Sure, you can wait to use them up for another play of Possession, but that just forces your opponent to use them up before that next play.

It was more of a joking reply anyway.

But seriously -- if your opponent was foolish enough to leave coin tokens available after you had purchased Possession, thn maybe you should leave those tokens alone for future Possession turns, especially if you can play Possession enough that you expect to use their deck more than your own.

Hold it, I just realized that you could be playing KC-Possession, generating coin tokens for them on one of their turns, then using them on the last Possession turn or something. But yeah, perhaps the better meme would be:

[Watno]

I just got Stef'd

(Of course he won: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130828/log.50b20dc3e4b0c9ce0cf27eb3.1377722227297.txt)

[Aidan Millow]

[sudgy]

[eHalcyon]

Maybe Leo shouldn't have said anything.

[Stealth Tomato]

I just got Stef'd

(Of course he won: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130828/log.50b20dc3e4b0c9ce0cf27eb3.1377722227297.txt)

Man, your Jack deck ran awfully slow... seems like you should have been able to easily outpace that. Although the Upgrades are kind of

That said, that's kind of awesome.

[Witherweaver]

I just got Stef'd

(Of course he won: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130828/log.50b20dc3e4b0c9ce0cf27eb3.1377722227297.txt)

Man, your Jack deck ran awfully slow... seems like you should have been able to easily outpace that. Although the Upgrades are kind of

That said, that's kind of awesome.

The key play to making this strategy work is naming Coppersmith for Wishing Well on turn 4 when he didn't have any Coppersmiths:

Stef   plays Wishing Well
Stef   draws Copper
Stef   names Coppersmith
Stef   reveals Estate

Looks funny, but if you look at the full turn:

Stef: turn 4
Stef   plays Wishing Well
Stef   draws Copper
Stef   names Coppersmith
Stef   reveals Estate
Stef   plays JackOfAllTrades
Stef   gains Silver
Stef   places Estate on top of deck
Stef   trashes Estate
Stef   plays 3 Copper
Stef   buys Scheme
Stef   gains Scheme
Stef   shuffles deck
Stef   draws Wishing Well, Estate, Scheme, Wishing Well, Copper

He probably knew the last card was an Estate , but if he wished for the Estate, then Jack would have made him reshuffle when it looked at the top card of his deck.  Classic wishing for the impossible~

[eHalcyon]

That's just good Jack play. It doesn't explain Jack Upgrade Poor House at all. 

[clb]

I just got Stef'd

(Of course he won: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130828/log.50b20dc3e4b0c9ce0cf27eb3.1377722227297.txt)

Man, your Jack deck ran awfully slow... seems like you should have been able to easily outpace that. Although the Upgrades are kind of

That said, that's kind of awesome.

This was my thought - first Province on, what, turn 13? That seems pretty slow for a Jack deck.
Does anyone have a theory on why Watno hadn't gotten 4 Provinces by turn 13 or 14 (or am I misremembering the Jack baseline)?

[Witherweaver]

That's just good Jack play. It doesn't explain Jack Upgrade Poor House at all. 

I know, I was saying it jokingly. 

[ftl]

I just got Stef'd

(Of course he won: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130828/log.50b20dc3e4b0c9ce0cf27eb3.1377722227297.txt)

Man, your Jack deck ran awfully slow... seems like you should have been able to easily outpace that. Although the Upgrades are kind of

That said, that's kind of awesome.

This was my thought - first Province on, what, turn 13? That seems pretty slow for a Jack deck.
Does anyone have a theory on why Watno hadn't gotten 4 Provinces by turn 13 or 14 (or am I misremembering the Jack baseline)?

Shuffle luck. He hit $5 twice early, and then hit $7 on turns 7, 8, 9, 10.

$5 and $7 are pretty bad spots for a BM deck.

[Witherweaver]

I just got Stef'd

(Of course he won: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130828/log.50b20dc3e4b0c9ce0cf27eb3.1377722227297.txt)

Man, your Jack deck ran awfully slow... seems like you should have been able to easily outpace that. Although the Upgrades are kind of

That said, that's kind of awesome.

This was my thought - first Province on, what, turn 13? That seems pretty slow for a Jack deck.
Does anyone have a theory on why Watno hadn't gotten 4 Provinces by turn 13 or 14 (or am I misremembering the Jack baseline)?

Would Upgrades slow down the Jack?  Is it better to just buy Jacks and money?

Plus, Turn 7:

Watno: turn 7
Watno   plays JackOfAllTrades
Watno   gains Silver
Watno   discards Estate
Watno   plays 3 Copper, 2 Silver
Watno   buys Gold
Watno   gains Gold
Watno   draws Copper, JackOfAllTrades, Copper, Silver, Silver

He discarded instead of drew to trash the Estate, and he already had $6 in hand to buy a Gold. (Maybe he was hoping to draw a Silver to get a Province here.)  That could possibly make a difference between a Province buy later.    Actually he drew Silver, Estate, Copper, Copper, Gold for Turn 10 and could only buy a Gold.

He seemed to draw a lot of $5 hands.. there was a Duchy purchase on Turn 12, and that was the first victory card purchase. There were $5 hands before that.  Maybe just unlucky?

[eHalcyon]

Would Upgrades slow down the Jack?  Is it better to just buy Jacks and money?

That's just good Jack play. It doesn't explain Jack Upgrade Poor House at all. 

I know, I was saying it jokingly.

Ah, I was thinking that might be it.

Would Upgrades slow down the Jack?  Is it better to just buy Jacks and money?

I think Upgrade helps Jack in general, but Poor House hurts it in this case.

...so I don't understand Stef's strategy at all.  But I guess that is status quo.

On this board I think I would open JoaT/Silver, taking Province > Gold > Mystic > second Jack.  Maybe Scheme.  5/2 Open I'd probably still go Jack/nothing.

[Witherweaver]

I think Upgrade helps Jack in general, but Poor House hurts it in this case.

...so I don't understand Stef's strategy at all.  But I guess that is status quo.

Upgrade Copper -> Poor House, trash Poor House with Jack = synergy!

But yeah I find Stef's turns kind of amazing here too.  He even gets Thief!  And plays it, in the same turn.

[eHalcyon]

I think Upgrade helps Jack in general, but Poor House hurts it in this case.

...so I don't understand Stef's strategy at all.  But I guess that is status quo.

Upgrade Copper -> Poor House, trash Poor House with Jack = synergy!

But yeah I find Stef's turns kind of amazing here too.  He even gets Thief!  And plays it, in the same turn.

That's a joke too, right?  I mean, yeah you can remove Copper that way, but it should be really slow.  Unless you are Stef, I guess.

[Witherweaver]

I think Upgrade helps Jack in general, but Poor House hurts it in this case.

...so I don't understand Stef's strategy at all.  But I guess that is status quo.

Upgrade Copper -> Poor House, trash Poor House with Jack = synergy!

But yeah I find Stef's turns kind of amazing here too.  He even gets Thief!  And plays it, in the same turn.

That's a joke too, right?  I mean, yeah you can remove Copper that way, but it should be really slow.  Unless you are Stef, I guess.

It's a joke, yes.  Or it would be, except that he ended the game with one Poor House and no Coppers at turn 17.

[Watno]

We both didn't think about poor house messing up upgrade, until Stef trashed his first copper.

[-Stef-]

confession time... I had no clue what I was doing here.

[GeoLib]

Would you add this to the wiki under combos? Jack/Poor House/Upgrade? I'd like a more detailed explanation of how I can pull it off in my games.

[jonts26]

Would you add this to the wiki under combos? Jack/Poor House/Upgrade? I'd like a more detailed explanation of how I can pull it off in my games.

Step 1: Be Stef
Step 2: Don't not be Stef

[eHalcyon]

Would you add this to the wiki under combos? Jack/Poor House/Upgrade? I'd like a more detailed explanation of how I can pull it off in my games.

My humour meter is just completely broken today.  Still can't tell if this is a joke or not. 

[GwinnR]

To join the   glorification of Stef:

[Stealth Tomato]

confession time... I had no clue what I was doing here.

That's awesome.

[soulnet]

confession time... I had no clue what I was doing here.

Is nice to know I can play like Stef from time to time.