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[Eevee]

vote: Hydrad

thank you for reminding me, silverspawn.

I think silverspawn is playing a very towny game here.

No, this is very bad. Hydrad is the IC who is not actually an IC but really is person in this game. There's no way the way his claim went down it's not true. At least no way that we should seriously consider today. I think this is a very bad place to vote.

I agree. And feel lazy and like an idiot. Sorry guys.

unvote

Still need to do that reread to find a more intelligent place for my vote.

[Robz888]

Unvote

Robz you have to realize the "I'm town, I wouldn't play this poorly as scum" defense is not a very convincing one.  And that you make that defense as town means you would make it as scum, too.

Well, the point is, though, that I wouldn't play like that as scum, because it's reckless and dangerous. I would just post more on Day 2 and avoid getting lurker lynched, if I were scum. Sure, I could make that argument as scum, but I wouldn't actually have played like that at scum, because it's unnecessarily risky.

[Witherweaver]

Unvote

Robz you have to realize the "I'm town, I wouldn't play this poorly as scum" defense is not a very convincing one.  And that you make that defense as town means you would make it as scum, too.

Well, the point is, though, that I wouldn't play like that as scum, because it's reckless and dangerous. I would just post more on Day 2 and avoid getting lurker lynched, if I were scum. Sure, I could make that argument as scum, but I wouldn't actually have played like that at scum, because it's unnecessarily risky.

So who is scum here?

[Eevee]

Unvote

Robz you have to realize the "I'm town, I wouldn't play this poorly as scum" defense is not a very convincing one.  And that you make that defense as town means you would make it as scum, too.

Well, the point is, though, that I wouldn't play like that as scum, because it's reckless and dangerous. I would just post more on Day 2 and avoid getting lurker lynched, if I were scum. Sure, I could make that argument as scum, but I wouldn't actually have played like that at scum, because it's unnecessarily risky.

Except you have done that exact thing as scum earlier, used the same argument and gotten away with it. It's very unfortunate I don't remember what game it was, it was a long time ago.

I'm not saying Robz is scum, or even that it's likely that he is scum. I am saying that this particular argument doesn't hold any water for me, not in Robz's case anyways.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote Count 2.5

silverspawn (1): Kingzog3
liopoil (1): Robz888
Robz888 (2): XerxesPraelor, SK
jotheonah (1): Voltaire

Not Voting (6): Hydrad, jotheonah, liopoil, silverspawn, Witherweaver, Eevee


With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 2 ends Sept. 14 at 5pm FT.

[Robz888]

Unvote

Robz you have to realize the "I'm town, I wouldn't play this poorly as scum" defense is not a very convincing one.  And that you make that defense as town means you would make it as scum, too.

Well, the point is, though, that I wouldn't play like that as scum, because it's reckless and dangerous. I would just post more on Day 2 and avoid getting lurker lynched, if I were scum. Sure, I could make that argument as scum, but I wouldn't actually have played like that at scum, because it's unnecessarily risky.

Except you have done that exact thing as scum earlier, used the same argument and gotten away with it. It's very unfortunate I don't remember what game it was, it was a long time ago.

I'm not saying Robz is scum, or even that it's likely that he is scum. I am saying that this particular argument doesn't hold any water for me, not in Robz's case anyways.

Okay, that's fine. I don't remember which game that was (we're going on 50 here buddy, woo!).

[Eevee]

I remember it vividly. Totally shattered my illusion of having scumrobz figured out.

Oh how I miss those times of innocense.

[jotheonah]

I want back on the Robz wagon.

Unvote

Robz you have to realize the "I'm town, I wouldn't play this poorly as scum" defense is not a very convincing one.  And that you make that defense as town means you would make it as scum, too.

Well, the point is, though, that I wouldn't play like that as scum, because it's reckless and dangerous. I would just post more on Day 2 and avoid getting lurker lynched, if I were scum. Sure, I could make that argument as scum, but I wouldn't actually have played like that at scum, because it's unnecessarily risky.

Wasn't everybody getting on my case earlier for saying "if I were scum"?

Also, I think the play does make sense for you as scum. Scum more or less knows XP is a doctor, if he is. Getting him lynched to save them a nightkill, especially when there's another IC to use the nightkill on, is smart. And given how yesterday shook out you had every reason to believe that an early vote on XP would coalesce into a wagon pretty quickly. It wasn't a risky play.

vote: Robz

I like this better than Voltaire because it's an actual case I can back up. My Voltaire vote was more of a knee-jerk emotional vote.

[Voltaire]

So a joth re-read uncovers this. A lot of his posts are those content-less posts scum loves to have. Except

I'm not sure there was ever a consensus that RVS was over. But I'll unvote anyway since my vote on Eevee was mostly RVS.

Saying "hey, I didn't know if it was still RVS or not!" is scummy.

There's the whole thing about how he went after Hydrad instead of silver for the mason reaction, which still confuses me.

There was a D1 wagon on joth that peaked at four votes (I think) that started with this:

sounds like someone's getting a little hot under the collar at the prospect of two ICs.

Vote: jotheonah

I don't really remember jotheonah's playstyle, so this could be irrelevant, but this is a classic scum move.  Implicating someone as scum, but not voting for them, so that they don't have to take responsibility for their actions.

joth's "maybe Volt" stuff started on D1.

I don't much like the Robz vote here from Voltaire. It's too easy just to vote for the person who isn't around. And I'm inclined to give Robz the benefit of the doubt because once he starts playing he'll be handy to have around.

Just looking over my post again, I admit I say "over and over again" about something that only happened twice. But twice in very few posts, so I think it's still relevant.

Worried about how your own posts sound, eh? Well GUESS WHAT - this classic scumtell isn't actually scummy.

Then joth drives XP, which is townie in my book. Actually the entire end of D1 seems reasonable. Meh. And I forgot he was one of the first to go against Robz...so...I guess I don't see Robz and joth on the same team, which is actually pretty useful.

What this boils down to is that joth does way less scummy stuff than I thought, and actually has a strong town narrative. And I'm hyper-sensitive to the "joth is here, Robz isn't" bias.

back to vote: Robz And I'm just realizing how much Robz is posting now that he's drawing votes.

Cool cool. Cool.

PPE: joth votes Robz again. So...cool?

[Robz888]

Yeah, I'm posting now. I should have been posting all along, that way I wouldn't have votes. Have to post now that I don't have votes, don't want to be lynched, obviously. Will probably be lynched anyway. Obviously would never have done this as scum, I don't get caught as scum this easily.

Seems to me like there is an awful lot of funny business between Joth and Voltaire. I'd like to say one of them is scum, but I guess it was all fairly genuine, so maybe not. Eevee is reading townier to me as well. I think XP and silverspawn are town.

I'm still fine with my chairs (now liopoil) vote.

[Voltaire]

Seems to me like there is an awful lot of funny business between Joth and Voltaire. I'd like to say one of them is scum, but I guess it was all fairly genuine, so maybe not. Eevee is reading townier to me as well. I think XP and silverspawn are town.

I'm still fine with my chairs (now liopoil) vote.

Your reads actually most match mine, I'll give you that.

[Voltaire]

What do you think of chairs outing thought?

[Robz888]

What do you think of chairs outing thought?

I don't get much from it, chairs is sometimes just too busy for games. It definitely doesn't make me reconsider him though. I mean it definitely came at a point where he was getting heat, seems just a tad more likely that he didn't want to disappoint scum buddies and outed. Just a tad.

[jotheonah]

I don't like Liopoil's coming back in and immediately voting for XP much, either. As I've said, post-claim XP wagon is a scum wagon and it doesn't bode well for liopoil that all he's done is jumped in and tried to start that fire.

[Voltaire]

I mean, I think there's a decent chance XP is scum, but I guess we're going by least likely to hit a PR than most likely to hit town, so oh well.

If XP is alive tomorrow, I'm sure he'll be back on the table.

What about this though?

[jotheonah]

I was sure. I never said it was a good idea, just that it was likely to happen.

But in my mind, the more I think about it, his weird claim to have protected silverspawn is a pretty clear towntell. Scum!XP would have spent all night thinking about how to best re-inforce his fake claim the next day, and he would have come up with something better than that.

[Robz888]

I agree.

[jotheonah]

Whereas town!XP had less time to think about who to protect, and may well have been thinking less critically about it. After all, town!XP had to make the decision quickly at night, whereas scum!XP had partners to talk it over with.

[Voltaire]

I was sure. I never said it was a good idea, just that it was likely to happen.

It was more this I was asking about. That makes sense.

[liopoil]

All of my posts including this one have been from my phone, I'll be home soon. I was subbed in while I was asleep and those posts were all I had time for in the morning. And I didn't even vote for XP yet. So that one post by joth is pretty absurd. I'll answer all the questions that have been asked of me and read the rest of the thread very soon.

[jotheonah]

All of my posts including this one have been from my phone, I'll be home soon. I was subbed in while I was asleep and those posts were all I had time for in the morning. And I didn't even vote for XP yet. So that one post by joth is pretty absurd. I'll answer all the questions that have been asked of me and read the rest of the thread very soon.

You're right, pushing a case and not actually voting is much townier. 

[jotheonah]

Seriously though, thanks for replacing in!

[liopoil]

Going through, saying the main things I would have said if I were alive at the time. Will probably split among multiple posts.

sounds like someone's getting a little hot under the collar at the prospect of two ICs.

This is pretty scummy, because silverspawn was acting townie. And he didn't vote.

I see a few posts later that sudgy comes to the same conclusions. And wow, he got sheeped 3 times. Joth responds with this:

It really isn't a strong case. I would submit that a better case is the one I was too scared to make -- silverspawn's play, of "making sure no one's 100 percent cleared" is definitely something scum would do as early as they could in a discussion like the one we just had.

I'll vote: silverspawn in any case.

which I disagree with because scum doesn't actually do that.

I get a townread on silverspawn from the things that happened here.

sounds like someone's getting a little hot under the collar at the prospect of two ICs.

But that's Hydrad, not Silver.

True... but Hydrad is often hedgy, so I don't know what to make of it.

I agree with most of the things in this post.

...but then I agree with this one too (except for the vote on eevee). Hmmm, I'll come back to this one.

There are a bunch more posts about xerxes-joth-hydrad, but none of them say much of anything. I especially don't understand the Hydrad case, at least not yet.

[liopoil]

continued...

Checking in. I want to lynch Robz or TA or Hydrad. XP not so much.

Any reason you want to lynch me, other than my lurking?

oh, you're playing? (I knew he was playing, just when I read this could not remember a single one of his post prior to this).

So is there even a case that I can defend myself here? Because it feels like there is almost no reason why I'm getting voted. I guess I had my post about not being 100% sure if they were masons or not. Is that the reason we are voting for me?

I don't really see why if I was scum I would do that. If i'm scum I'm pretty sure I would see that it really looks like a mason slip and believe it. There wouldn't be any point in fighting for it because if they claim then I'm in a weird spot.

Now what I was trying to see was the chance that they were either a scum team and SK made a huge slip. Or even the chance that SK was just trusting sudgy since he was the mod in his first NM6 game. I guess I havn't played with enough mason games to have been as confident as everyone else.

Yeah, what's with the Hydrad votes? There was actually a reason to vote for XP or joth.

Hydrad makes a case on SS, SS makes a case on TA. Both look like townies making a bad case.

Man, that's actually a pretty elite day 1 case.

Even enough to make me want to Vote: TA

I'll have great availability until the deadline.

You're kidding right? It's all based on interpreting actions for every single post I make in the most negative light.

hindsight is 20-20, because I know he flips town, but ouch, if that's a pretty elite day 1 case... what isn't. The cases on XP or joth were pretty elite. Not sure what this makes me think of eevee.

I'll be around for deadline. Don't lynch me randomly.

scummy

Honest question, have we ever seen a scum wagon be the first wagon, have it sit for awhile, have other stuff build up around it and many players just kind of ignore that it still exists? Because that is what it would take for XP to be scum and it's not impossible but I don't see it.

That's silly, I bet it happens just as often (proportionally) as it happens to town.

but why though

Because I think we'll see not green text.  And I like that.

gosh this D1 was low on actual content.

I'm a doctorscum please lynch me.

FTFY. Seriously guys, he asked you to lynch him and confessed and you still didn't lynch him?

Agree that it's an easy fake claim, but we can't lynch a claimed doctor D1.

Yes you can. Claimed doctors are hardly better than VTs. They're also much more likely to be scum than claimed VTs.

joth in particular freaks out backing off of the XP lynch. I don't get it. Then he goes and hammers TA after doing what scum doesn't do there. Then this post:

I mean, I think there's a decent chance XP is scum, but I guess we're going by least likely to hit a PR than most likely to hit town, so oh well.

If XP is alive tomorrow, I'm sure he'll be back on the table.

very vaguely suggests to me that he knows TA will flip town. But I don't read much into that.

So that's the important stuff from D1, conclusions:

XP is the most scummy, followed by joth.
SS is townie, the Hydrad wagon was weird.

[Witherweaver]

Vote: Jotheonah