Dominion Strategy Forum

Archive => Archive => GokoDom => Topic started by: Kirian on June 18, 2012, 02:49:22 pm

Title: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: Kirian on June 18, 2012, 02:49:22 pm

Week 2 pairings are posted to their normal place at:

http://isodom.challonge.com

It took a little bit; Challonge bugged out when trying to remove a player from the last unplayed match... hopefully I won't have to reset the brackets again, but thankfully Challonge doesn't randomize...

Matches are best-of-five, but do not play a sixth if there is a draw (i.e. 2-2-1) at that point.

Match results are due by Monday 25 June at 06:00 EDT/10:00 GMT. Finish your matches by Sunday, in other words, unless you plan to get up early Monday morning. Note that due to the nature of a Swiss tournament, unplayed matches cannot be made up. Rules about dropouts are in the signup thread.

Good luck!

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: Young Nick on June 18, 2012, 05:09:17 pm

Young Nick defeats pops 3-1 in 4 close games!

In general, the match was lots of fun. We both took our time making decisions, and discussed which openings we thought were best, even before the current games had ended. The set was dominated by Caravan and Masquerade; they both appeared in three of the four games.

Game 1 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/18/game-20120618-123203-e080eaf9.html): Young Nick 30 - 28 pops. Key cards: Masquerade, Caravan, Jester. This game was a pretty typical Masquerade game. I opened with Caravan/Masquerade, compared to pops' Quarry/Masquerade. He never achieved his goal of hitting an early Forge, and for that I was grateful. Not too much was going on here, except for his Jester flipping a Gold and Estate. On the final turn, I passed him a dead Caravan and received a crucial Copper from him to allow me to buy a Province. It was a good example of not auto-piloting. If I had passed him a Copper instead, I would have been stuck at $7.

Game 2 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/18/game-20120618-125139-f59b7710.html): pops 41 - Young Nick 33. Key cards: Ambassador, Tournament, Caravan, Ironworks, Apprentice. I would like to think that this one was much closer than the score indicated. He opened Ambassador/Tournament. I thought long and hard before going Ambassador/Ironworks. There are enough desirable targets for Ironworks that I figured it warranted a purchase, but in retrospect, it should not have been my opener. Caravan (for the +Cards) or Tournament (for the +$) seem logical. Having said that Caravan seems better because it's not like one of us was particularly likely to spike an early Province in the middle of an Ambassador war. As it turns out, he gets 2 Provinces before I get 1, and as a result takes Followers with the first successful Tournament/Province pairing. I get Trusty Steed soon after and it becomes a full-blown battle. With two Provinces left, I struggle to have the stones to break PPR on several occasions. Had I done so earlier, I easily could have won, but alas. A few misplays, like taking Diadem for reasons that I still do not understand, put me even further behind. I was too slow to purchase Saboteurs, which were my only chance at coming back (I needed them to hit his Provinces). This game seriously gives he headaches (especially the opening), and was quite heated in the moment.

Game 3 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/18/game-20120618-130203-df231c4b.html): Young Nick 34 - 25 pops. Key cards: Masquerade, Ill-Gotten Gains, Jester. This was another board with plenty of options. Do I go for the IGG rush? Nah, Masquerade can fend it off too well. Do I go Courtyard + BM? But then those IGG can screw me over. Do I mess around with Jester or can Masquerade just shrug it off? I figured that Masquerade/Caravan was the way to go, and then I would have to react to pops. He opened Masquerade/Silver, which I didn't really know how to read. As the game progressed, he picked up a turn 3 Jester and transitioned into a belated IGG rush. I was never too scared, though. I just picked up an extra Masquerade, and later a 3rd and was smoothly sailing from there. I flipped one of pops' IGG's with my Jester and bought one of my own, but other than that, my Masquerades, and a lone Jester of my own, I sticked to money and that was that. My economy was too strong considering pops gave me a few turns to ramp up before he started rushing me.

Game 4 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/18/game-20120618-131219-d32d61b6.html): Young Nick 59 - 45 pops. Key cards: Masquerade, Colony, Jack of All Trades. This was a tough board to decide on the opening. Masquerade/Silver was the path I decided to follow. There were no worrisome attacks that necessitated my picking up Jack, and with Colonies out, Copper trashing seemed especially valuable. pops went for Jack/Silver and later told me that he wanted to do Jack/Masquerade but balked due to fear of collision. From there, he picked up a pair of Upgrades, which I figured was a very good decision, due to hand-size reduction and Copper trashing. Meanwhile, I intended on picking up a second Masquerade, but never really needed it. Some games you get super-duper lucky. Here are my buys, from turn 1: Silver, Masquerade, Silver, Gold, Gold, Gold, Platinum, Gold, Platinum, Platinum, Platinum, Colony, Colony, Colony, Colony, Province, Duchy, Colony. 18 turns, 5 Colonies, 59 Victory Points. It's sickening, how lucky I was. pops handled it like a champ, or at least better than I would have. What could he do? Not many strategies could compete with that.

These were four games that were lots of fun. The openings had me scratching my head each and every time. The last one looked like a blow out, but I suspect that game 3 was actually the most lopsided one (in terms of superior strategy) of the match. Comments and questions welcome, and thanks again pops!

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: Eevee on June 18, 2012, 06:06:43 pm

help im a bug beats MrEevee 3-2

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/18/game-20120618-140710-67256a11.html (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/18/game-20120618-140710-67256a11.html)
minions and governors. bug goes for (imo) questionable scheme open and prefers governors over minions. i buy minions, minions win games.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/18/game-20120618-141647-50b9da7e.html (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/18/game-20120618-141647-50b9da7e.html)
maybe the saddest game i've played in my life. if you like winning, dont try chancellor-stash in a colony game, especially if its going to take you until turn 9 to reach 5.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/18/game-20120618-142909-a75e8dc0.html
curse slog with witch, IGG, uppgrade and militia. idk what happened, i lose like i usually do. governor completely ignored by both players. his tactician was probably a smart buy, i didnt even notice it was on the kingdom.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/18/game-20120618-145015-6fc45b4c.html (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/18/game-20120618-145015-6fc45b4c.html)
didnt make me hate familiar any less than i did before (was a lot). oh well, back to playing 100% in veto mode and never seeing the card again (i guess i'll still leave it on when i'm almost sure its a trap).

apparently missed one log, dont remember the game so probably nothing too memorable.

props to bug for being a great opponent, super easy to arrange a time to play + nice and friendly games all the way through. didnt even laugh at me sucking all that much.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: cayvie on June 18, 2012, 06:34:21 pm

Oh the scheme open in game 1 was awful; I didn't think how it would interact with an opponent playing Minions.

Game 2, I was pretty happy with Talisman as an opener (and, yes, even happier when I saw you were going for Stash).

Game 3, I think the Smugglers was key to my victory.

Game 4 was some city thing with a bunch of curses where you got more banks and so had a better economy.

Game 5, it would have been a luck-based blowout except that you were able to sneak in a Forge to give yourself a chance.

Good match :)

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: popsofctown on June 18, 2012, 07:41:35 pm

My goal was not an IGG "rush" in game 3. I started hitting 5$ when my terminal and dead draw ratios made me feel like I needed to buy a treasure, so I bought IGGs as a "Silver+", sort of like Venture. I hit 5 a bunch, and since 6/3 splits would have fit my strategy better than 5/5's , I started hurting. The late courtyard should suggest big money was my ideology. Failing to get more underspent Courtyards was probably a bad thing, if I were to stick with big money, which might not be the best way of playing the set.

The games were really fun. I disagree and feel that game 4 was the biggest gap in play quality. You're draws were so good it might not have mattered too much what I did, but keeping Jack around for so long in a Colony game was a doomed failure. On the other hand, I feel like on paper my strategy for game 3 should work sometimes.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: Jorbles on June 18, 2012, 09:50:48 pm

Jorbles: 3 vs. zxcvbn2: 0

Game 1:
Jorbles 36 vs. zxcvbn2 -100
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/18/game-20120618-180909-c5172229.html
Key Cards: Tactician, Bank, Baron, Horn of Plenty, Talisman, Treasure Map
zxcvbn2 had a late game disconnect, which is unfortunate. He still had a chance, but I had a 9 point lead at that point. We both ignored Treasure Map here, which actually was decent on this board. I went Tactician/Bank (with Horn of Plenty support) and he went Tactician/Baron, the strategies seemed to compare well though I could never get my Horn of Plenty up to the $5 that makes it useful. The game was pretty close when zxcvbn2 disconnected. I don't think he was totally out of it. He said he had a $4 hand and I had a $2 hand so neither one of us was going to buy a Province or Duchy and put pressure on our opponent. Not sure what would have happened if we'd kept on, but zxcvbn2 graciously didn't contest the win.

Game 2:
zxcvbn2 28 vs. Jorbles 40
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/18/game-20120618-181949-ae6baeb6.html
Key Cards: Ill-Gotten Gains, Smugglers, Governor
I was lucky to get this board from second player where Smugglers is pretty strong. We both opened Silver/Smugglers, but I think being 2p this helped me more than him. I thought Governor was a trap on this board, but zxcvbn2 went for it. This let me pick up some Golds with my Smugglers, which I normally would never have acquired on this board. I focused on the IGG rush mostly, only diverting from it when I had less than $5 or could afford a Province. I think I had more money in the early game because I got lucky and spiked a couple Provinces which gave me a big lead, that I managed to maintain. I think I got a bit lucky with my draws on this board, but I also don't think this was a great board to be buying Governors on.

Game 3:
zxcvbn2 33 vs. Jorbles 33
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/18/game-20120618-182650-b0df0bef.html
Key Cards: Tactician, Smugglers, Tournament, Forge
A strong Tactician/Tournament board. I'm 2p again so I open Tournament/Smugglers; zxcvbn2 opens Tournament/Silver, which seems pretty solid. We both rush for Tacticians so we'll have an easier time lining up our first Provinces with a Tournament. My deck has a few more Tournaments in it, which gives me added cycling which lets me get to my reshuffle faster and I get to my Tactician to win the first Tournament a little quicker than him. zxcvbn2 has some terrible luck and doesn't line up his Tournament with a Province on his first Tactician opportunity having to settle for a Forge (which once the Followers are gone is actually probably superior to a Trusty Steed). My large amount of Tournaments was great in the early game, but in the midgame zxcvbn2 slows me down with Province reveals and he starts pulling ahead on Provinces. My Followers and using Tournaments for Duchies are keeping me in the game, but it's a very close tactical game at the end. In the end zxcvbn2 miscalculates and Forges a Gold and Estate into a Province thinking to end it on a tie, but forgetting that he was 1p. I win on the rare 2nd player advantage.

Best of luck in future games!

[Edit: put in scores.]

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: ednever on June 19, 2012, 12:34:04 am

ednever over Turkman 3-2

Here are the logs:

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/18/game-20120618-201812-1bdbdf9e.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/18/game-20120618-203354-d422bd70.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/18/game-20120618-204655-be5db922.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/18/game-20120618-205513-aea59efc.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/18/game-20120618-211042-e965bd49.html

Quick commentary:

Game 1: Turkman
Masq, Spice Merchant, City, Expand, Colonies

Both of us trashed our decks down using Marchants and Masqs to tiny little things. Maybe too small. I passed Turk some good stuff on his Masq turns. I think T picking up a second Masq and going into Cities are what won him this game.

Game 2: ednever
Festival, Library, Possession, Colony (with Navigator and Trade Route)
Possession can be brutal on Colony kingdoms. I saw the Festival/Library Engine that I thought would let me play multiple Possessions per turn. I started with Navigator to speed up the cycling (thinking I would have lots of excess actions)
Turns out I didn't have as many actions as I thought, and I never did a double possession turn, but the navigator was great for getting me to possessions quickly. If I saw a Possession or a Festival/Library engine I didn't discard, otherwise I did. Turk tried to green early as soon as I got the first Possession, but it stopped him from getting his own Possession engine going. I ended up being able to buy from my deck and his.

Game 3: ednever
Fun Gardens game with lots of helpers. I would highly recommend this kingdom if you are looking for something interesting.
Horse Traders and Margraves gave extra buys. Horse Traders defended against the Margraves, Best use I've had for Secret Chambers (use them to draw Horse Traders, and then guarantee hands where you don't mind discarding stuff. There was a Young Witch here too that we both ignored.

Game 4: Turkman
Wharf+Worker's Village+(It doesn't matter)
There was Masquerade here too, but basically this was a rush to get the engine going. I thought I had a shot, but Turk saw the opening and emptied the Estate pile. Very well played on his part (me, not so much for providing that opening by picking up the last two Worker's Villages...)

Game 5: ednever
My favorite game. The initial Kingdom was a little perplexing - lots of potential interaction. I think I saw the risks better than Turk which helped me off the start. Then a second, well timed, Potion purchase took me over the top.

P Vineyards
$2 Chapel, Native Village
$2p Apothecary
$4 Island, Treasure Map, Sea Hag
$5 Festival, Ghost ship, Outpost

Sea Hag is powerful, but weaker with Chapel. Ghost Ship chains are brutal combined with Festival, but weakened considerably with Apothecary and Native Village.
But if you go Apothecary, you don't need Chapel.
Islands are a great mix with Vineyards, but there are no cheap actions other than Native Village and Chapel.
Both Apothecary and Vineyards need the extra buys - but the only option is Festival.

So lot's going on.

Like last week, I would love commentary from the super-stars out there on how they would play this one.

I ended up playing what I consider a pretty complicated pattern (open Potion-Chapel. Use Chapel to dissuade the Hag and kill the Estates. Use Apothecary to get Festivals, then load up on Festivals, Islands, Apothecary and Native Villages. At the same time when Turk didn't get a Chapel I picked up a Hag and used the fast cycling of the Apothecaries to hit him a ton). Then, when the +buys are flying, pick up a second potion and start diving into the Vineyards.

Seemed to work, but I would love thoughts on other ways to play it.

Thanks Turkman for the games and being accommodating to my Pacific Time schedule. Fun set!

Ed

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: glengarry on June 19, 2012, 08:44:53 am

Glengarry defeats MAD Mergus 3-2, game 1 at bottom is only really interesting set.

#5: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120618-220933-fbf46d74.html
glengarry: 31 points - opening: Lookout / Jack of All Trades
Mergus: 28 points - opening: Silver / Masquerade

unexceptional Jack set, i think we both drew fairly well to end it on round 14 (provis, of course), with my one apprentice powering out the winning province.

#4: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120618-220217-29da1577.html
Mergus: 37 points (5 Vineyards, opening: Talisman / Silver
glengarry: 17 points (3 Vineyards, opening: Talisman / Silver

thoroughly outplayed in goons / haven / pearldiver / talisman / youngwitch set (haven the bane card, and i got outbaned badly. i bought talismans twice with my first two 4-buys and was able to grab triple youngwitch subsequently only down 2 curses, but Mergus was rushing the havens with his talisman by then, wound up well on top.

#3: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120618-214844-51640afd.html
Mergus: 45 points opening: Silver / Silver
glengarry: 8 points opening: Potion / Shanty Town

brutalized by big money in a golem / possession / shantytown / throne room set, he had mint on 5 and gold on 3 while i was twaddling with remodels and shanties. i hit 5c, potion multiple times and never once got possession running.

#2 http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120618-214016-2bccb8f5.html
glengarry: 49 points opening: Jack of All Trades / Silver
Mergus: 39 points opening Jack of All Trades / Silver
i province on 9, 10 and 11 with just-what-i-needed-each-time Tribute draws and ride the advantage out through many rounds where Mergus had to duchy with province money and i was able to respond with hands of 5 and 6.

#1: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120618-202557-5a156d98.html
glengarry: 47 points (6 Duchies, 3 Gardens [47 cards], 9 Estates, a Duke, and a Harem); 24 turns
opening: Contraband / Copper
[47 cards] 6 Workshops, 3 Gardens, 2 Contrabands, 1 Duke, 1 Harem, 19 Coppers, 9 Estates, 6 Duchies
Mergus: 38 points (5 Gardens [47 cards], 4 Harems, 5 Estates, a Duchy, and 2 Dukes); 23 turns
opening: Contraband / nothing
[47 cards] 5 Gardens, 4 Harems, 4 Workshops, 3 Scouts, 2 Contrabands, 2 Dukes, 13 Coppers, 8 Silvers, 5 Estates, 1 Duchy

very proud of this one. never played a set where contraband and opponent blocks workshops was clearly the right play, but Mergus did that to me in round 4 or so. I was hammering coppers from the beginning and got rewarded in round 10 with 4c, workshop draw with only 2 gardens remaining. after gardens were gone, i piled estates quickly with contraband multi-buy and was already up on duchies... Mergus had to buy harems instead of duchies to avoid piling and contraband decisions remained very interesting all game long. He grabbed one of those scouts early and it really let him down, even with Harems to hit... i had 1 workshop most of the game and piled the remaining 5 to end it finally with my deck incapable of grabbing the remaining duchies and his deck incapable of catching me without buying duchies and piling it to end the game.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: nightdance on June 19, 2012, 11:21:02 am

nightdance wins over Smithe 3-0

Game 1: forgot to grab game log

Game 2:http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/19/game-20120619-073327-785963d5.html
Colony + Platinum Game
Grand Markets, Throne Rooms, Envoy, Shanty Town
Smithe took an early lead in money (Platinums) with 2 hits of throne room+envoy. He eventually goes too money heavy, greens too late, and loses to my golds, grand markets, and provinces. He could have easily won this one if he went for more provinces instead of platinums and more colonies instead of two other cards.
At the end:
me: 4 Grand Markets, 2 Throne Rooms, 1 Envoy, 1 Shanty Town, 10 Coppers, 1 Silver, 5 Golds, 4 Estates, 5 Provinces, 1 Colony
him: 3 Grand Markets, 2 Envoys, 1 Throne Room, 7 Coppers, 1 Silver, 3 Golds, 6 Platinums, 3 Estates, 3 Provinces, 1 Colony

Game 3:http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/19/game-20120619-074123-ed047424.html
At the end:
me: 2 Menageries, 1 Feast, 1 Haggler, 1 Ironworks, 7 Coppers, 3 Silvers, 5 Golds, 4 Estates, 5 Duchies, 5 Provinces
him: 2 Mints, 1 Library, 1 Smithy, 2 Coppers, 2 Silvers, 6 Golds, 3 Estates, 3 Duchies, 3 Provinces

Menagerie was good for me. Library was good for him. Just played big money better and greened earlier for the win. Ironworks into Feast into Duchy gave me the Duchy lead.

Basically Big Money games, and Smithe's mistake was greening too late.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: cayvie on June 19, 2012, 02:49:54 pm

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120618-143756-2ee54ce6.html

Here's game 4 between Eevee and me.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: Fabian on June 19, 2012, 03:03:23 pm

Stef 3 - 0 Fabian

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/19/game-20120619-113312-fe827e7c.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/19/game-20120619-114456-18a959a9.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/19/game-20120619-115831-c3cecb39.html

Some of the worst playing ever witnessed by man. Well early/mid game 1 is fine and game 3 is kinda fine I guess. But just, ugh. Super tilt.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: -Stef- on June 19, 2012, 04:13:56 pm

Quote from: Fabian on June 19, 2012, 03:03:23 pm

Stef 3 - 0 Fabian

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/19/game-20120619-113312-fe827e7c.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/19/game-20120619-114456-18a959a9.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/19/game-20120619-115831-c3cecb39.html

Some of the worst playing ever witnessed by man. Well early/mid game 1 is fine and game 3 is kinda fine I guess. But just, ugh. Super tilt.

Round 2 I got paired with Fabian. I still remember Fabian as 'the guy to beat' from before I quit isotropic for a few months. In february I was around level 46 and most of the time second to this annoying guy 2 levels above me. Well, the guy was ok but the 'two levels above' did all the annoyance. So even though I'm now 7 levels ahead of him, I still expected a rather difficult matchup.

We started the match and before me was one of the most complex random kingdoms I've yet encountered. It was obviously engine walhalla, but with so many different combinations that it just hurts. Tournament with all the prizes, cities to power up by witch running out curses, caravan for draw and warehouse for cycling, goons for some megapoints and add grand market for extra fun. A bishop for some trashing and if you still can't find anything you like there's always the black market to try something sneaky.

There wasn't too much power in the black market, mainly because it was all on the board already. OK, I wanted to have the trashing-cards (masquerade, lookout), because bishop is just too much mutual-benefit in a game where these small amounts of points are not that relevant. Oh and lighthouse was in there, which would be dreamy-good on this board.

I decided I wanted a reliable deck at the start rather then a risky one, and opened tournament/warehouse. Fabian decided exactly the other way around with black market/tournament. I got lucky with 5 on turn 3 (playing both tournament and warehouse) where Fabian got quite the opposite (4 on both t3 and t4).

The next round of our decks we swapped luck rather dramaticly. I had to skip my warehouse to prevent all my cards from missing the shuffle, and he picked lighthouse right out of his first black market. It was his first turn >4, and he had to think a while before skipping witch for it. But despite of all my praying he got the lighthouse and a caravan.

From this point on things went downhill for me. I lost the curse split despite my early witch (grmbl lighthouse) and since I reached 8 way later then Fabian, he also got the first 3 prizes. He picked pricess first, which seemed like a good move to me. He also got the better half of the cities, which he then turned up to level 3.

I was losing this game slowly but steadily as Fabian got some of the trashers in his deck. Due to masquerade I no longer lost the curse split 6-4, it was now 7-3. The only surprising thing was that he waited a bit long before adding goons to his deck. And then he waited a bit longer. Not a real problem, because he was still quite seriously ahead on points (2 provs and those curses) but hey.

In the endgame, something must have just snapped on his side. I can't explain it any other way. On his turn 20, Fabian bought 4 estates out of the blue, but his lead was nowhere near big enough to justify that. On my turn 20 I said thank you and bought the other 4 (after playing 2 goons).

Game 2 contained Ill Gotten Gains, but it very clearly wasn't an IGG board (another strong curser, no +buy, good trashing). Fabian was still a bit dazzled by the previous endgame I think, and encouraged by his 5/2 opening went for it anyway. I just stayed away from IGG, duchy or any other remote possebility of 3-piling, and even before I bought my first province he resigned realizing his mistake.

Game 3 was a much more interesting game, involving fishing village, oracle, jester and perhaps tunnel. Menagerie could become powerfull later on, but with expand as only trashing that's not very easy. Haven and celler could support menagerie, which would make tunnel a lot better. I would definately have gone for the cheap cards if only there was a source of +buy, but alack, there was none.

I decided to try and get an expand in quickly, because I really like the potential of this set. So no early tunnels, no cellars, but fishing, oracle and jester asap. Fabian found himself back and seemed to come to the same conclusion, or at least he bought the same cards.

It was a fun game to play, and I think we both played it well. Except he made a small but important mistake on turn 5, where he let me keep 2 coppers. It probably was a lot more easy to see for me then it was for him, but that made me real happy and got me a second jester in stead of a reshuffle I didn't want.

After that I just held on to my small but increasing lead and steered to a clear 3-0. I know Fabian can do much better then this, so I guess I was a bit lucky to find him on such an off-day.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: Obi Wan Bonogi on June 19, 2012, 11:08:32 pm

Obi Wan Bonogi defeats Robz888 (3-1-1)

Game 1: (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/19/game-20120619-181918-fcf952d5.html) Draw
I could play this board all day, a lot of fun. I take an agressive engine line by skipping over a silver on turn 3. I'm not confident trading post was the best choice early here. Looking back I think I would double up on ironworks and hammer more HP. I should have aimed at 4 highway(where I took 6) while contesting hunting party and hope to get 5 or 6 of those. My intention wasnt to skip militia/bazaar but neither were a priority and it just worked out that I never picked them up. I sucked it up and took the draw which was debatable, looking at Robz's final hand it seems I should have went for the win. I am confident the ironworks line is superior(not sure about talisman) and that I just had a few missteps in execution. I think aiming for a 3 prov turn is the way to go.
Game 2: (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/19/game-20120619-182854-e33f5a7b.html) Obi
I was debating between island/farming vlg/remodel and opt for the remodel. Robz follows me with Monument. Robz never sees the counting house potential. I lose curses 6-4 but he sputters after that.
Game 3: (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/19/game-20120619-183808-1a565dbb.html) Obi
Swindler/swindler is goofy. I think rushing the prov is the way to go even though the risk of getting them turned into peddlers really sucks.
Game 4: (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/19/game-20120619-184659-ba28b4ac.html) Robz
I thought the pawn open would help me win the peddler race here but that didn't flush out as we split 5/5. I was also greedy in skipping HP which proved to be very strong for Robz.
Game 5: (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/19/game-20120619-190238-8489acbf.html) Obi
A dream board. Felt confident early as I managed not to hit $3. I would have skipped silver if I hit $3 though. Using Baron/Moneylender for the first Grand Market and ramping up from there keeps it nice and clean.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: Robz888 on June 19, 2012, 11:44:48 pm

Quote from: Obi Wan Bonogi on June 19, 2012, 11:08:32 pm

Obi Wan Bonogi defeats Robz888 (3-1-1)

Game 1: (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/19/game-20120619-181918-fcf952d5.html) Draw
I could play this board all day, a lot of fun. I take an agressive engine line by skipping over a silver on turn 3. I'm not confident trading post was the best choice early here. Looking back I think I would double up on ironworks and hammer more HP. I should have aimed at 4 highway(where I took 6) while contesting hunting party and hope to get 5 or 6 of those. My intention wasnt to skip militia/bazaar but neither were a priority and it just worked out that I never picked them up. I sucked it up and took the draw which was debatable, looking at Robz's final hand it seems I should have went for the win. I am confident the ironworks line is superior(not sure about talisman) and that I just had a few missteps in execution. I think aiming for a 3 prov turn is the way to go.

This was certainly the game that merits the most discussion, and it also shows the limits of a player like me when compared to someone like Bonogi. I honestly had no idea what he was doing going Ironworks/Talisman on a Hunting Party board with no extra buys available. I kept thinking to myself, "Is there like an invisible Gardens pile somewhere?" And then I realize what he's doing--with the Highways, of course--and I must have cursed aloud. That said, he must have misplayed it somewhat--possibly with that Trading Post--for it to be close. And I got a fairly bad draw on my last turn to not be able to buy at least a Duchy. Really, with 6 HPs, I'm surprised I couldn't get that last Province, but I might have erred in getting Militia AND Jester. In fact, I almost certainly did.

Quote from: Obi Wan Bonogi on June 19, 2012, 11:08:32 pm

Game 2: (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/19/game-20120619-182854-e33f5a7b.html) Obi
I was debating between island/farming vlg/remodel and opt for the remodel. Robz follows me with Monument. Robz never sees the counting house potential. I lose curses 6-4 but he sputters after that.

Definitely outplayed here. I simply overlooked Counting House. Should have gotten one instead of a third Mountebank.

Quote from: Obi Wan Bonogi on June 19, 2012, 11:08:32 pm

Game 3: (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/19/game-20120619-183808-1a565dbb.html) Obi
Swindler/swindler is goofy. I think rushing the prov is the way to go even though the risk of getting them turned into peddlers really sucks.

He got a bit luckier with Swindler at the beginning and my deck was way slowed down. I didn't hit $5 for a long time.

Quote from: Obi Wan Bonogi on June 19, 2012, 11:08:32 pm

Game 4: (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/19/game-20120619-184659-ba28b4ac.html) Robz
I thought the pawn open would help me win the peddler race here but that didn't flush out as we split 5/5. I was also greedy in skipping HP which proved to be very strong for Robz.

I'm happy with my play here, though we didn't diverge TOO wildly, and first player advantage may have been the main decider.

Quote from: Obi Wan Bonogi on June 19, 2012, 11:08:32 pm

Game 5: (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/19/game-20120619-190238-8489acbf.html) Obi
A dream board. Felt confident early as I managed not to hit $3. I would have skipped silver if I hit $3 though. Using Baron/Moneylender for the first Grand Market and ramping up from there keeps it nice and clean.

Really, I had the exact same plan, but it seems like I drew worse, and he was able to slow me down by flipping my Actions.

All in all, some fun sets. I know Obi Wan likes Prosperity and engines, so I was hoping for more boards that would favor my type of play, but... that's not how we improve, is it?

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: ArjanB on June 20, 2012, 04:41:41 am

ArjanB - JVB 2-3

1-0 Game 1: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120619-080901-c06df0f6.html
1-1 Game 2: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120619-081517-6456fbbe.html
1-2 Game 3: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120619-082651-5b19f969.html
2-2 Game 4: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120619-083642-7178fc95.html
2-3 Game 5: http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120619-084217-490691b4.html

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: WanderingWinder on June 20, 2012, 10:16:36 am

Eevee:
Game 2: Chancellor/stash can still be pretty good in colony games, in a power vacuum. Is there enough of a power vacuum here? Hard to say. But you probably want to open chancellor/silver. That extra little bit of tempo isn't really that much on the reshuffle, and collision is huge, because you really need to get to 5 fast and lots. I'm actually sort of impressed by bug's play though. The talisman, not so much the chancellor, and who knew that such an engine was so good? I did not. But maybe it isn't? One game sample size... Hmm...

ednever:
Game 1: I find that masq is really really good against trashing, so this isn't SO surprising.
Game 2: I find that people can often get too scared of opposing possessions, and self-clog way too much. To be fair, he's behind there, but without the ability to get oodles of possessions himself, he just gives you a free hand. You've got to play a bit more normally, I think.
Game 3: Wow! I think Young Witch is sitting there, ripe for your taking. Probably one of those, and run. Also, I'd expect Jack to be strong enough here, and come back and steal some gardens when need be. I don't see really any strong enablers of gardens. HT does okay, but it's by no means stellar.
Game 4: I would think you'd just play Wharf/BM, maybe with a masq? You both way over-villaged, even for the engines though. I hate the village opening - you do want silver, as you need it for your economy, and the village does nothing for you right away, whereas silver does. Of course, the last 2 WVs has to be a pretty big mistake....
Game 5: The one you ask for comments on is the one I'd probably otherwise just leave be! Dunno that I'm a superstar, but... You have to go chapel. If you try to skip it for apothecary, the other player will hag you to death. I'd probably get a sea hag with it, though you can make a case for going treasure map. Probably I want a GS engine, which is a weak engine of course, but I want to try to get maps to go off at some point, probably. Early on, you have to be cognizant of running out of money. Obviously, you have to react to what your opponent does as well. Of course, you have decent GS mitigation here, but the thing I'm really worried about is the vineyards. How strong can they be? Well, it seems pretty strong. So maybe you have to go for that at some point, or at least try to block it some? You should be fine doing some kind of mix, with your engine, though.

-Stef- v Fabian:
Game 2: It sucks to get 5/2 here, but I think you've got to suck it up and open with your Hag anyway. Even though you only want one. But I think Fabian's bigger problem maybe even is going for duchies. Well, he's just going to stall too much, and he should actually have some chance of getting some provinces. Well, he's probably already pretty badly off....
Game 3 actually looks like a boring engine game to me. Strategy is more-or-less straightforward. But the thing I want to touch on is -Stef-'s comment about Fabian's turn 5 'mistake'. Thing is, I'm not sure it's a mistake. Sure, with what you see, it's better for you to have the coppers put back. But from what he sees, is that knowable? I'm much less sure. It might actually be a mistake here, but lots of times I see people label this stuff as a mistake when it actually isn't. You have to judge based on the knowledge known to the player making the decision, not on the knowledge known by anyone else.

OWB - Robz
Game 1, I think OWB pretty much nailed already. More ironworks, less trading post (which does pretty little for him), less talisman, only 4 highway. If the opportunity strikes, Militia and bazaar, but who knows if it will.
2: I don't get the remodel stuff here. Not that it's bad per se, but it always seems so weak in these early game situations to me. I'm surprised about missing CH, as this is THE classic situation where it shines. Probably OWB is a bit lucky to get this much of a blowout, but uh, yeah, the CH is good here.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: Wizard of Woz on June 20, 2012, 10:48:17 am

Hi all. First long post, and I expect some formatting SNAFUs. If so, let me know and I'll edit. Anyway, on to the results.

Wizard of Woz 3 - loes u 2

Game 1 - http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120619-144523-546b488e.html

Woz - 37 Loes u - 30
Witch, Jack, Familiar with some TFB (Forge and Salvager). Close game where I inch ahead at the end. I don't have much of an impression from this one, honestly.

Game 2

Loes u - 50 Woz - 37
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120619-143528-192c399f.html

She got started with the cursing early and my deck couldn't really get going. I am still not sure how to handle that, and this will be even more obvious in game 4.

Game 3

Woz- 13 Loes u - 12
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120619-142314-8a98fec5.html

IGG race. I open silver/HT, while she goes oracle/ht. I win the curse split 7/3 as loes abandons IGG for dutchies when we were pretty close. I am somehow able to consistently get Dutchies at the end, while she slows to estates. Three piles - Curse, IGG, and Estates. Pretty much, I win becasue I went first.

Game 4

Loes u -88 Woz 28
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120619-145804-9f6bf38a.html

At one point, I was behind something like 53-2. Started getting cursed early. Turns 5,6 and 8 I only had 2 copper, and was unable to do anything. Loes, on the other hand, pretty much dominated me. I started getting desperate and buying silly things. Also, due to my lack of focus, thought that the fairgrounds was a farmland, and started buying them with no support. I closed the gap by realizing this and buying estates and dutchies. Losing by only 60 here was a miracle. Around turn 8 I wanted to cry and hide under a rock. Anyway, this leads us to the 5th and final game.

Game 5

Woz 36 - Loes u 22
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120619-150320-50f66ce8.html

I see Vault, with Spice Merchant and Stables and I figure that its going to be a quick one. I got out a little faster, and ride the Vault to a victory. Had the starting order been switched, I am not sure I would still have won.

After a bit of a miscommunication about the starting time (becoming a theme for me), we finished in about 40 minutes. Loes u was a great competitor.

Any input would be appreciated, but I am not sure my strategies can be fixed or tweaked by a paragraph.

[edit - posted game logs]
[edit 2 - changed the gender on pronouns that referred to my opponent]

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: jmieden on June 20, 2012, 10:49:33 am

SpajderDzerusalem v. jmieden TIE (2-2-1)

Game 1 (SpajderDzerusalem 36, jmieden 20)
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120619-160353-a8036c05.html

He goes with an excellent Scrying Pool deck enabled by Trade Routes and Jesters; I made a Frankenstein deck with a bunch of random crap trying to do something cool with scry pool and big tactician hands. It actually ended up being ok, but SD had such a good deck by the time my deck started doing anything interesting that it wasn't even close.

Game 2 (SpajderDzerusalem 42, jmieden 42)
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120619-160924-c600eb3f.html

I went Big Money in this one with a Monument early, then adding a Rabble and another Monument later. SD goes for a deck with emphasis on cycling (I think) with Warehouse, Remake, Bazaar and some lighthouses to protect himself. Mostly just a BM game that ended square. I'm not sure if SD was planning to go for the tie, but it worked out that way. Close game all the way.

Game 3 (jmieden 42, SpajderDzerusalem 29)
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120619-162400-b0e9b772.html

He pulled Montebank and Margrave early from the Black Market deck and that subdued my deck for a little while, but I kept plugging away with a simple Vault BM strategy that provided enough stability to keep me consistently 5+. I got Sea Hag from the Black Market to mitigate the curses and a Tunnel from the Black Market (with Vault, Warehouse and Hamlet to discard) and Hoard to stabilize my cash flow and ended up winning this one rather handily.

Game 4 (SpajderDzerusalem 30, jmieden 20)
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120619-162828-19db21a0.html

This was an exceedingly close Witch BM game. He got the Witch first and often early and we split 7-3. The finish was particularly exciting as I was down 7 points and had 8 coins and 1 province left, but had to settle for duchy. That left him open to take the game. Good, strong play by SD had him winning this one.

Game 5 (jmieden 67, SpajderDzerusalem 20)
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120619-163953-5d47beab.html

Colony engine board. We both started 5/2, and I opened Rabble/Cellar while he opened Sea Hag/Cellar. I used the Rabble to get me to 5 often early and got the lion's share of the Cities and another Rabble as well as an Apprentice. I used Apprentice to get rid of my silvers, curses and lone sea hag and keep my good hands stable. Once City and Curse were out, the stage was set for a huge City Rabble Apprentice engine that got off the ground faster than SD's engine. I took 5 colonies and a province in the last two turns to win this.

Overall (SpajderDzerusalem 2, jmieden 2, tie 1)
Fantastic set of games- SD is a great opponent and would have probably beat me if it hadn't been so late in his time zone compared to mine. I was thankful to compete and would not be disappointed if the rest of my IsoDom games were this close. :)

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: WanderingWinder on June 20, 2012, 10:50:07 am

Wizard of Woz, one big big thing: You only put one log :)

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: Wizard of Woz on June 20, 2012, 11:11:50 am

Fixed that. Sorry

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: lespeutere on June 20, 2012, 11:22:19 am

and she's a she ;)

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: Wizard of Woz on June 20, 2012, 11:51:02 am

@ Lespeutere - Was that to me? I will fix the gender, but wasn't sure if you were talking to me.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: PerdHapley on June 20, 2012, 01:06:04 pm

perdhapley beats BadAssMutha 3 - 0.

Game 1: PH 43 - BAM 35 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/20/game-20120620-090701-e44990f7.html) Key Cards: Witch, Caravan, Hunting Party, Silk Road
This was entirely luck-decided - I opened 5/2 with Witch out. I make some mistakes (my 1st Caravan should be a Silver, hit Provinces too early) but not enough for BAM to recover from that lopsided start.
Game 2: BAM 35 - PH 41 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/20/game-20120620-091456-bbea86b2.html) Key Cards: Tunnel, Golem, Fool's Gold
He goes for FG, I go the Golem/Tunnel route and get my first Golem nice and early, on turn 3. I go overboard on Tunnels and slow down a bit towards the end, making this the most closely contested game of the set. I think Golem/Tunnel is the right move here, but 3-4 tunnels is probably plenty.
Game 3: BAM 19 - PH 36 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/20/game-20120620-092328-8f51d987.html) Key Cards: Remake, Lighthouse, Native Village, Militia, Nobles
Another one with much different openings - he goes for Ambassador and I opt for Lighthouse/Remake, with plans to grab a Militia quickly and fully shut his plan down. There are just too many cards that sink Ambassador here, and by the time BAM abandons it it's already a bit too late, and NV/Nobles with Salvager support works nicely for chewing through Provinces.
Thanks for the games, BadAssMutha, and I hope you have better luck in the next round!

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: lespeutere on June 20, 2012, 02:06:37 pm

Quote from: Wizard of Woz on June 20, 2012, 11:51:02 am

@ Lespeutere - Was that to me? I will fix the gender, but wasn't sure if you were talking to me.

Yes, it was. You couldn't really know, of course.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: Jorbles on June 20, 2012, 03:49:05 pm

Quote from: PerdHapley on June 20, 2012, 01:06:04 pm

Game 2: BAM 35 - PH 41 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/20/game-20120620-091456-bbea86b2.html) Key Cards: Tunnel, Golem, Fool's Gold
He goes for FG, I go the Golem/Tunnel route and get my first Golem nice and early, on turn 3. I go overboard on Tunnels and slow down a bit towards the end, making this the most closely contested game of the set. I think Golem/Tunnel is the right move here, but 3-4 tunnels is probably plenty.

You probably shouldn't have bought the Fishing Village in this game. I can see the benefit of buying Hamlet (+Buy, the possibility of discarding Tunnels from your hand, and if you happen to dead draw your Golems together +Actions), but Fishing Village only slows your Golems down causing them to hit less Tunnels. I can see why you would, it's hard to turn down that card, but your deck really didn't need lots of actions. Aside from that the only thing I would have done differently from you is try to get a Salvager. All those free Golds make trash for benefit really strong. I don't think having 7 Tunnels hurt you much, it slows you down a bit, but it helps in the tie breaker.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: qmech on June 20, 2012, 05:00:23 pm

Lekkit 2 - qmech 3

Lekkit 48 - qmech 37 (http://http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/20/game-20120620-130923-c59faba2.html)
Baron/Hunting Party. I get Hunting Party over Gold, and consequently never get a double Hunting Party turn.

qmech 30 - Lekkit 39 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/20/game-20120620-131734-e7b6a14b.html)
Masquerade loses to Mountebank. Cellar and Stables mean I get hit by far too much to cope with.

qmech 37 - Lekkit 24 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/20/game-20120620-132152-f31cc53c.html)
Lekkit's Watchtowers do sterling work, but my Margraves eke out a win.

Lekkit 47 - qmech 52 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/20/game-20120620-133050-4faacdcb.html)
Definitely the most interesting of the 5 games:

Quote

Cache, Counting House, Ill-Gotten Gains, Mint, Philosopher's Stone, Potion, Remake, Silk Road, Steward, Trade Route, and Vineyard

We both go IGG with fat Philosopher's Stones to grab Provinces. Behind on Provinces, I just try and keep up on the other VP. I find a Philosopher's Stone first, and am able to grab the last Province for a win.

Lekkit 26 - qmech 27 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/20/game-20120620-133835-6e8cab80.html)
Another IGG set. This one gets to the point where I'm 3 down and there's one copy each of Duchy, IGG and Curse remaining, with no Estates. I buy the Duchy with no better prospects: Lekkit doesn't manage to hit $5 next turn, and I do. These last two games could easily have gone the other way.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: Lekkit on June 20, 2012, 05:32:23 pm

My commentaries:

Game 1 - I go first, which is always good in a mirror match. My Baron hits on turn 4 while his doesn't, which gives me a Gold. We get a nice and even split of HPs which should work in my favour since I got a Gold and first player advantage. The game goes as expected under those circumstances and I manage to even nab the final Province while able to end the game on Estates as the third pile.

Game 2 - Even with Masq on the board a 5/2 split with Mountebank is hard to ignore. I get a Masq of my own as well as some dubious Schemes that I'm not too sure about. The light trashing of qmechs Masquerades doesn't help him and I can salvage away a victory.

Game 3 - The first times I'm hit by his Margraves I have Watchtower in hand. I don't hit 5's, though and end up buying a lot of other things, when I probably shoul've gotten Margraves (as was my plan), and qmechs Margraves does their thing.

Game 4 - I love this board. I was thinking about going for Counting House, but I like Philosopher's Stone better and I think it's a bit more reliable. qmech goes for the same strat, but gets his Potion later. In the end I hope I can get to my second Stone before he does. But I don't.

Game 5 - I get a lot of curses early and my early $5 hands get hit by Militias. In the end, it's pretty close but qmech is on the offensive and is able to end the game while being ahead.

Thanks, qmech for a fun series of games, and good luck in the rest of the tournament!

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: Mic Qsenoch on June 20, 2012, 05:55:01 pm

Mic Qsenoch wins 3 - 1 against ddubois

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120620-142917-98517da1.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/20/game-20120620-143723-d0d303c4.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/20/game-20120620-144439-0d159ea2.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/20/game-20120620-145131-1f85ec77.html

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: blueblimp on June 20, 2012, 09:49:55 pm

blueblimp 3 - Kirian 1

Game 1: (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/20/game-20120620-180418-cbb87303.html) Kirian 40 - blueblimp 21
Game 2: (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/20/game-20120620-182151-05358b99.html) blueblimp 90 - Kirian 48
Game 3: (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/20/game-20120620-183217-2b1bdea4.html) Kirian 35 - blueblimp 37
Game 4: (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/20/game-20120620-184555-4287b07f.html) Kirian -100 - blueblimp 16

Interesting boards. Comments to follow.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: Kirian on June 20, 2012, 09:51:53 pm

Quote from: blueblimp on June 20, 2012, 09:49:55 pm

blueblimp 3 - Kirian 1

Game 1: (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/20/game-20120620-180418-cbb87303.html) Kirian 40 - blueblimp 21
Game 2: (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/20/game-20120620-182151-05358b99.html) blueblimp 90 - Kirian 48
Game 3: (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/20/game-20120620-183217-2b1bdea4.html) Kirian 35 - blueblimp 37
Game 4: (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/20/game-20120620-184555-4287b07f.html) Kirian -100 - blueblimp 16

Interesting boards. Comments to follow.

Note to self: Do not let opponent play mind games with you at the start of a game, when you're already on tilt. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: blueblimp on June 20, 2012, 10:03:30 pm

Game 1: It looks like there might be some kind of Highway+Trade Route combo available here, but it's not clear. Anyway, I use Inn to enable Treasure Map, while Kirian goes Chapel to enable Treasure Map. Although my Inn plan works out, it turns out to be too slow, and Kirian takes it.

Game 2: I am happy I lost the previous match (and so get first player advantage here), as this board features Ambassador, two types of village (Village and Bazaar), and Hunting Party. We both open double Amb. Kirian gets an early Bishop, which I feel is a mistake, while I get a Village then a Silver, with my eye on getting HPs ASAP. (Unlike some Amb boards, copper return priority is a bit lower because getting to $5 is so vital for HP.) Some decent early draws put me pretty far ahead, and I awkwardly transition into a Hoard/Bishop follow-up. HP is pretty good in the face of copper spam, though, and Kirian doesn't fall too far behind in points until pretty late.

Game 3: Young Witch with Lighthouse bane. Maybe the best bane there is, since its protection is almost as good as Scheme early on, plus it gives you money. I go for Alchemists here, which is maybe a bit unwise since it hurts my ability to grab Duchies (for Duke). Kirian makes a nice Salvager play on a Province on turn 14 to get a 5-3 Duchy split. I unwisely salvage my Duchies, which makes it really narrow to get the VP I need to not lose. Still I barely pull it out. There was a lot of stuff going on in this kingdom.

Game 4: Goons paradise. Here, Young Witch has a Masquerade bane. Kirian opts to open YW/Masq anyway, which in some situations I think is fine, but here the urgency to hit $6 is so great that I much prefer Masq/Silver. Although I don't hit $6 on T3/T4, the Library I pick up gets me a Goons on T5, and then I luck into playing it on T6. On turn 12, I play a Goons followed by a Masquerade, and Kirian (presumably) discards a Copper and a Farming Village to leave Farming Village, Goons, and Library in hand. After passing me his Library, I am very very far ahead, and eventually he resigns. (I was planning on transitioning into University, since the Farming Villages had run out.)

Edit: A little more comment: Games 2-4 featured pretty intricate kingdoms. My play in Game 2 was not too bad, but probably not optimal since there were so many options. My play in Game 3 was pretty awful, and we were both confused at how I won anyway. I'm happy with how I played Game 4, though.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: Stringer Bell on June 20, 2012, 11:43:03 pm

Farb 3-2 Stringer Bell

Major attack cards were in play for all five games, which I always have trouble dealing with, for some reason.

Game 1 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/20/game-20120620-200553-ab23e29d.html)
I ran out the Lighthouses before he could mount a comeback, though I was pretty far clear anyway.

Game 2 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/20/game-20120620-201506-31480ec4.html)
My attacks almost never got through his Lighthouses, and I just got cursed to death.

Game 3 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/20/game-20120620-202201-aa86bddb.html)
Went big on the Laboratories and it worked out nicely, especially on the last turn.

Game 4 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/20/game-20120620-202915-48631d8b.html)
His Level 3 Cities worked wonders on the last few hands and I got too far behind early on.

Game 5 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/20/game-20120620-203510-1d5c4d4d.html)
Very strange ending, he KC'd a Swindler and got two of my Provinces, which ran out the Province pile for his win. I got to my KC twice but each time didn't get an action to play with it.

All in all, a really interesting set of games that had tons of attacks and crappy, curse-filled decks.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: Kirian on June 21, 2012, 02:51:23 am

Quote from: blueblimp on June 20, 2012, 10:03:30 pm

Game 1: It looks like there might be some kind of Highway+Trade Route combo available here, but it's not clear. Anyway, I use Inn to enable Treasure Map, while Kirian goes Chapel to enable Treasure Map. Although my Inn plan works out, it turns out to be too slow, and Kirian takes it.

Game 2: I am happy I lost the previous match (and so get first player advantage here), as this board features Ambassador, two types of village (Village and Bazaar), and Hunting Party. We both open double Amb. Kirian gets an early Bishop, which I feel is a mistake, while I get a Village then a Silver, with my eye on getting HPs ASAP. (Unlike some Amb boards, copper return priority is a bit lower because getting to $5 is so vital for HP.) Some decent early draws put me pretty far ahead, and I awkwardly transition into a Hoard/Bishop follow-up. HP is pretty good in the face of copper spam, though, and Kirian doesn't fall too far behind in points until pretty late.

Game 3: Young Witch with Lighthouse bane. Maybe the best bane there is, since its protection is almost as good as Scheme early on, plus it gives you money. I go for Alchemists here, which is maybe a bit unwise since it hurts my ability to grab Duchies (for Duke). Kirian makes a nice Salvager play on a Province on turn 14 to get a 5-3 Duchy split. I unwisely salvage my Duchies, which makes it really narrow to get the VP I need to not lose. Still I barely pull it out. There was a lot of stuff going on in this kingdom.

Game 4: Goons paradise. Here, Young Witch has a Masquerade bane. Kirian opts to open YW/Masq anyway, which in some situations I think is fine, but here the urgency to hit $6 is so great that I much prefer Masq/Silver. Although I don't hit $6 on T3/T4, the Library I pick up gets me a Goons on T5, and then I luck into playing it on T6. On turn 12, I play a Goons followed by a Masquerade, and Kirian (presumably) discards a Copper and a Farming Village to leave Farming Village, Goons, and Library in hand. After passing me his Library, I am very very far ahead, and eventually he resigns. (I was planning on transitioning into University, since the Farming Villages had run out.)

Edit: A little more comment: Games 2-4 featured pretty intricate kingdoms. My play in Game 2 was not too bad, but probably not optimal since there were so many options. My play in Game 3 was pretty awful, and we were both confused at how I won anyway. I'm happy with how I played Game 4, though.

Game 2, I think Village instead of Bishop might have given me a slightly better shot, but Ambassador tennis sucks in the second seat, especially when P1 draws Ambs on 3/4... and P2 gets 'em on 4/5. I think we both played poorly in Game 3, which is the only thing that made it a race rather than a blowout. :) Game 4... guh. When I had to pass that Library, it was pretty much game over.

Good match... my apologies for ragequitting. That Library pass killed me.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: blueblimp on June 21, 2012, 03:38:32 am

No worries. My thinking on the bishop is that, in this game, it's vital to trash quickly and buy expensive cards. Bishop doesn't help with either. Later on, it's relevant because it can keep an engine from becoming clogged, which is how I try to use it though my play is far from optimal.

In general, I tend to see players overbuy bishops early. If we both want engines, I'll happily take advantage of the free trashing while using my superior buying power to buy expensive components--after all, my opponent chooses from 4 cards to trash, while I choose from 5, and all they get for it is a little vp and $1. I can buy a bishop later once I'm generating expensive cards to trash.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: jsh357 on June 21, 2012, 02:36:18 pm

jsh357 / Watno
jsh wins 3-1-1

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/21/game-20120621-105925-a912a273.html
I opt for Jester and Watno pursues the far superior Council Room/Bank strategy. I start following him in to it just in time to tie the game due to the luckiest Jester hits ever.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/21/game-20120621-111044-9604d21b.html
Scrying Pool is usually my bane card, but here I managed to get a nice Scry/baron engine running that eventually won the day. I really think the Barons were key for the +Buy, and the only reason I managed to came through. I could hold the Estates Watno passed me with Masquerades and use them for money.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/21/game-20120621-111647-064626e2.html
Governor game. I bought the Walled Village specifically for the purpose of using it in the last turn (ensured it would be in my hand with Scheme). I'm glad I did, as it paid off elegantly.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/21/game-20120621-112823-afb4407e.html
Tournament game; he got Followers. I had a nice Minion/Monument/City engine going, but I dove for the penultimate Province to my folly. In hindsight that was a horrible mistake. Not totally sure about my Talisman opening, which didn't pay off all that much. Monument would have been way better; I just anticipated getting a lot of those power $4s and never did, partially because of the Loan.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/21/game-20120621-113332-124c552f.html
Fun set for some Throne Room/Monument good times. I am 50% confident first person advantage helped me here.

We played a couple of really interesting and mostly close games in this set. I was very fortunate to tie the first game, even though it didn't matter in the end.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: Watno on June 21, 2012, 02:42:39 pm

Game 1 was kinda crazy jester, still managed to tie there.
Game 2 what i did couldnt really work, baron was the key card there.
Dont really see why i lost game 3.
Game 4 was a really intersting board. In the end i won by not revealing my province to tournament.
Game 5 monument with villages and throne rooms seem to be better than monuments with throne rooms and money. Actually not that surprising.

Thx for the games, gl in the next rounds.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: jsh357 on June 21, 2012, 02:51:42 pm

Quote from: Watno on June 21, 2012, 02:42:39 pm

Dont really see why i lost game 3.

It was close; I only won because I gained a Duchy during your turn. Sadly, I don't think that you could have swung it at that point anyway? Governor is tricky...

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: DG on June 21, 2012, 04:59:20 pm

DG 3 : 1 Kenuru

Kenuru 44 : 28 DG http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/21/game-20120621-124043-4ea6d2be.html (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/21/game-20120621-124043-4ea6d2be.html)
Kenuru 60 : 82 DG http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/21/game-20120621-125959-31bab654.html (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/21/game-20120621-125959-31bab654.html)
Kenuru 46 : 53 DG http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/21/game-20120621-130843-75caf660.html (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/21/game-20120621-130843-75caf660.html)
Kenuru 27 : 40 DG http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/21/game-20120621-131610-cc401cdc.html (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/21/game-20120621-131610-cc401cdc.html)

First game I completely misplayed fairgrounds as if I'd never seen them before. Kenuru played much more sensibly.
Second game was a good kingdom with all the cards coming into play. It is always hard to tell with minion games if there's a bit of luck in the draws or some advantage in deck composition but I managed to ease away and the big haggler turns proved decisive.
Third game looked to be a gardens game just because it was the only strategy that could survive the attack cards. I still can't honestly say how it should have been played.
Fourth game was straightforward. Kenuru tried to run fool's gold and treasure maps together and it wasn't going to work well.

Thanks for those fun and diverse games

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: Insomniac on June 21, 2012, 10:22:58 pm

Played my games against b33 today and I beat him 3-2 in 5 games.

Game logs:

Game 1: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/21/game-20120621-183738-ac65da5d.html

Game 2: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/21/game-20120621-184733-8d5b809a.html

Game 3: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/21/game-20120621-190619-34500ebe.html

Game 4: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/21/game-20120621-191508-97de8f97.html

Game 5: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/21/game-20120621-192228-5472157e.html

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: b33 on June 21, 2012, 10:25:47 pm

insomniacx 3 b33 2

1. http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/21/game-20120621-184733-8d5b809a.html

2. http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/21/game-20120621-183738-ac65da5d.html

3. http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/21/game-20120621-190619-34500ebe.html

4. http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/21/game-20120621-191508-97de8f97.html

5. http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/21/game-20120621-192228-5472157e.html

My opponent played very well and i felt I made some stupid mistakes. A good exciting match, thanks for the game Insomniac.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: clb on June 22, 2012, 01:09:41 am

Bedlam 3 clb 2
some of the games were pretty dirty (swindler + familiar in game 3 I believe) and some we tried to do interesting things when BM+X probably would have worked better. Game 5 I tried for a torturer chain, but always seemed to manage to draw the torturers without the +actions and then the +actions show up dead in the draw. I think I needed more $ and more +actions - inputs appreciated. Bedlam ran a nice Jester on me, getting 2-3 platina and a gold, I think it was. Enjoyable games, though maybe not a paragon of skill. :)

clb 38, bedlam 26
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/21/game-20120621-211658-59a3bcde.html

clb 54, bedlam 60
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/21/game-20120621-212718-36a7716f.html

clb 31, bedlam 19
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/21/game-20120621-213812-4260d28a.html

clb 25, bedlam 27
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/21/game-20120621-215047-2f716c42.html

clb 46, bedlam 71
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/21/game-20120621-220213-bc75d209.html

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: qmech on June 22, 2012, 02:03:39 am

Quote from: clb on June 22, 2012, 01:09:41 am

Game 5 I tried for a torturer chain, but always seemed to manage to draw the torturers without the +actions and then the +actions show up dead in the draw. I think I needed more $ and more +actions - inputs appreciated.

Moneylender/Shanty Town isn't a great opening: you get the collision on turn 4, which gives you $4 to spend rather than the $6 if you'd opened Silver. (Was it a deliberate decision to skip the Peddler? It's defensible, so I'm just checking if you spotted it.) Since the Moneylender is going to start causing a nuisance when you want to play Torturers I'd be tempted to skip it. It's also not entirely clear whether you want to trash your Copper, as you don't want to have to spend too many turns buying Silver, but if you do want to clear the Copper then Loan might be the better way to do it.

So I think I've now talked myself into opening Loan/Shanty Town, with the intention of hitting Torturers and Shanty Towns hard, and taking Peddlers if they're all I can get for $2. Extra Silver might be necessary early too. With Jester, Tactician and City, this set was complicated.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: HiveMindEmulator on June 22, 2012, 03:50:41 am

HiveMindEmulator 3 : 1 O

HME 41 : 31 O http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/22/game-20120622-000145-6196a27f.html (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/22/game-20120622-000145-6196a27f.html)
HME 70 : 57 O http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/22/game-20120622-001003-cdb92ada.html (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/22/game-20120622-001003-cdb92ada.html)
HME 21 : 36 O http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/22/game-20120622-001317-e0dd3202.html (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/22/game-20120622-001317-e0dd3202.html)
HME 41 : 31 O http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/22/game-20120622-002210-ba583186.html (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/22/game-20120622-002210-ba583186.html)

Game 1 was a Minion game. I opened 3 Fishing Villages, and he went FV/Shanty/FV. I don't think the Shanty town did him any favors, but I also got particularly lucky and ended up winning the Minion split 7-3.
Game 2 was a Colony game where he went for Familiar and I went for Counting House. The Curses didn't really hurt at all since I wasn't going for any sort of deck density, but it was still a close game.
Game 3 should have been a simple Jack/Witch affair, but I accidentally discarded a Copper I wanted to keep and then decided that I should try to make up for it buy buying a bunch of useless cards. Naturally, I got destroyed.
Game 4 was an interesting one. We both opened Ambassador, but it did not turn into an Ambassador game. He went for Embassy/Tunnel, with a few other random cards from his Ironworks, and I attempted to make a full-drawing deck with Throne Room/Embassy/Menagerie and a Governor for extra gains. I played it pretty poorly, even Ambassadoring away my last Copper, but he got pretty unlucky hitting $7 on turns 17 and 18 when he could have practically sealed the win with a Province, and I was able to scramble together 3 reasonably good turns at the end, picking up 3 Duchies and a Tunnel to go with the last 2 Provinces to come from behind. I think going Embassy/Tunnel from the get-go (probably with 1 Ambassador at the start) is probably the best way to play this board.

Overall, I didn't play too well but got enough luck to carry me through. Thanks to O for being a good sport about it!

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: dghunter79 on June 22, 2012, 05:36:50 am

dghunter79, 3; michaeljb, 0

michaeljb, resigned; dghunter79 --
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120621-223401-0cb40fdc.html (http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120621-223401-0cb40fdc.html)

Trading Post, Witch, Goons, Grand Market, Menagerie, Native Village, Bazaar. I get 5/2 and buy Trading Post. My turns after this are like the days of Hanukah: Goons, Witch, Menageries, Bazaars, victory chips. Michael opens 4/3 and he's just much less fortunate.

michaeljb, 27; dghunter79, 39
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120621-224053-bcdbf353.html (http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120621-224053-bcdbf353.html)

Fools Gold, Gardens, Woodcutter, Border Village, Hamlet, Embassy. Michael surprised me by opening Woodcutter/Woodcutter. Old school, that. He goes for a Gardens rush while I pile out Fool's Gold. It's close for a while, but I'm ahead when I hit a nice turn and buy his last two Gardens. This leaves him with few paths to a comeback.

michaeljb, 28; dghunter79, 37
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120621-224410-5c64d117.html (http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120621-224410-5c64d117.html)

Jack of All Trades, Lookout, Festival. They say Jack/Lookout fares worse than Jack/Silver. I don't know why they say this, and in fact, the last time I played Silver against Lookout I lost. But I do what they say: Jack/Silver. Michael opens Jack/Lookout. I get a second Jack on four, while he gets a Silver. My Jacks rarely collide, and that's the win.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: Rhombus on June 22, 2012, 01:30:52 pm

Rhombus wins, 3-2

Games:

Rhombus wins, 58-18
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/22/game-20120622-092221-4d0e15ab.html

Tournament game where I open Lookout / Sea Hag in 1p and methods opens Silver / Trader. Thought process here is to curse him up a little bit if possible and thin down my deck to win tournaments. I buy a gold on turn 6 and Province on turn 7. Methods goes for Sea Hag on turn 6 - my feeling is that if you're going to go for it at all on this board, you have to open with it. I win tournaments on turns 10, 12, 14, 16, 17, 23 and the rest is history. For some reason, methods also starts buying duchies on turn 14.

methods of rationality wins, 43-39
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/22/game-20120622-093106-fc22d06c.html

We both open Young Witch / Tunnel. I'm able to hit on turn 3 where he misses. I purchase a tunnel, he purchases a trade route (bane). I'm able to hit gold again on turn 7. I continue to purchase tunnels and he buys Minions and transitions into a KC engine. Close game.

methods of rationality wins, 55-41
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/22/game-20120622-093943-b26a530d.html

Not sure how I lost with Caravan / Ambassador, but I did. Methods uses a pure Embassy+Tunnel strategy. Any comments on this one?

Rhombus wins, 50-32
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/22/game-20120622-095357-0c22bd61.html

I open Pawn / Tactician and he opens Silver / Tournament. I sure do feel good with a 5/2 here - it'll help me win tournaments and Tactician is one of my best cards. We both end up with a tactician, tournament, and province by turn 6 with me one turn ahead. He purchases a Governor where I might have purchased an additional Tournament. We both win tournaments on turn 8 with me picking up Followers and methods grabbing Princess. The rest of the game goes as expected resulting in my second win, leading into the matchmaker.

Rhombus wins, 85-39
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/22/game-20120622-100446-4c73b526.html

When I saw this board I got a bit worried because I'm not so great at Alchemist. After taking a minute or so, I'm fairly certain that it's the way to go. Maybe Fool's Gold will play a part, maybe not. I open Warehouse / Potion and methods opens Island / Silver - I'm feeling pretty good. My alchemist stack continues to build as he buys money. Methods buys a Potion on turn 10, which I really don't understand except as a last ditch effort. I realize that I'll need Grand Markets for additional buys so start to go for those, as he does. I miss my potion on turn 15, so the stack breaks, but my deck is so dense that it doesn't even cause a bump. I win with 7 colonies.

Good games, methods.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: clb on June 22, 2012, 01:48:40 pm

Quote from: qmech on June 22, 2012, 02:03:39 am

Quote from: clb on June 22, 2012, 01:09:41 am
Game 5 I tried for a torturer chain, but always seemed to manage to draw the torturers without the +actions and then the +actions show up dead in the draw. I think I needed more $ and more +actions - inputs appreciated.

Moneylender/Shanty Town isn't a great opening: you get the collision on turn 4, which gives you $4 to spend rather than the $6 if you'd opened Silver. (Was it a deliberate decision to skip the Peddler? It's defensible, so I'm just checking if you spotted it.) Since the Moneylender is going to start causing a nuisance when you want to play Torturers I'd be tempted to skip it. It's also not entirely clear whether you want to trash your Copper, as you don't want to have to spend too many turns buying Silver, but if you do want to clear the Copper then Loan might be the better way to do it.

So I think I've now talked myself into opening Loan/Shanty Town, with the intention of hitting Torturers and Shanty Towns hard, and taking Peddlers if they're all I can get for $2. Extra Silver might be necessary early too. With Jester, Tactician and City, this set was complicated.

Thanks, Qmech. In my mind, the moneylender and shanty town weren't going to collide (or, gloriously, the shanty town would draw the moneylender), but I can see how a silver would be a better idea. Loan is an interesting suggestion. I typically only buy loan when I am reasonably confident I won't need to quickly buy a lot of other coin. I didn't feel that way here, but maybe I am not justified.
As to the peddler - I think I am also overly conservative there. I tend to grab it only if I have spare $ or buy, but at $4 it would be a reasonable buy, especially with nothing else I was buying at $4.
Thanks for the advice!

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: methods of rationality on June 22, 2012, 02:03:48 pm

comments on my games with Rhombus
game 1: The first time I ever tried to go trader over a curser. Apparently I need some practice in how to do this better.
game 2: It feels weird to be pursuing 2 strategies at once (yw tunnel, and king's court engine) - you never know which to prioritize
game 3: It wasn't even embassy tunnel - I only bought tunnels in the end game (though I suppose I should have bought them earlier) - I went pure embassy bm.
game 4: On turn 14 I had an amazing tactician hand with plenty of buys and princes - I was so close to end being able to buy 2 provinces and 4 duchies for an amazing comeback - didn't happen though.
game 5: I guess the late potion was a bad move - my thought process was something like - I feel like I should be building an engine, so I don't want silver, nothing else thats good is on the board, so.... potion!

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: shark_bait on June 22, 2012, 02:11:05 pm

@methods and rhombus

Looking at Game 5, any thoughts on using SC to enable GM. Potentially Potion/SC opening, get Apothecaries/Alchemists and when opportunity arises, discard hand to gain grand market. With a $5 hand, Cache could be bought which wouldn't be all that bad with apothecaries picking up extra copper.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: methods of rationality on June 22, 2012, 02:19:16 pm

Interesting idea shark bait! you would need a 7 card had but with apothecaries and cache, I don't think that would be too hard.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: Jorbles on June 22, 2012, 02:21:45 pm

Quote from: Rhombus on June 22, 2012, 01:30:52 pm

methods of rationality wins, 55-41
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/22/game-20120622-093943-b26a530d.html

Not sure how I lost with Caravan / Ambassador, but I did. Methods uses a pure Embassy+Tunnel strategy. Any comments on this one?

Not sure if you can really call that a pure Embassy+Tunnel strategy, methods didn't buy a Tunnel until turn 14, well into the game. [Edit: ninja'd] However, I think Embassy is just really good at dealing with junk. Ambassador slows you down, without really slowing him down. You toss him some junk, and he can just sift past them. Embassy is such a strong sifter/drawer that it can ignore a single Ambassador worth of attacks pretty easily, especially when you're not trying to build anything resembling a fancy engine, just big hands with money in them.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: Rhombus on June 22, 2012, 02:41:37 pm

Quote from: shark_bait on June 22, 2012, 02:11:05 pm

@methods and rhombus

Looking at Game 5, any thoughts on using SC to enable GM. Potentially Potion/SC opening, get Apothecaries/Alchemists and when opportunity arises, discard hand to gain grand market. With a $5 hand, Cache could be bought which wouldn't be all that bad with apothecaries picking up extra copper.

I thought about this, but I wanted the card draw anyway, so there was no time to go for SC.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: andwilk on June 22, 2012, 04:30:07 pm

andwilk 3-1 kulap

Game 1: andwilk 38-31 kulap (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/22/game-20120622-124803-16f88364.html)
Straight BM+ (Cutpurse) for me. I drew $7 on turn 3 so I invested in a Forge but it wasn't very useful in cleaning out my deck since on the next few reshuffles I drew it with my better cards. Stash was fairly useful here... I managed to pick up four of them on turns 10, 11, and 12. kulap tried something with Develop/Ironworks but it seemed too complicated for this kingdom although it started to worry me down the stretch.

Game 2: kulap 45-27 andwilk (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/22/game-20120622-125554-a05fa202.html)
I shake my fist at Tournament. That is all.

Game 3: andwilk 24-10 kulap (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/22/game-20120622-130138-fb8fa79b.html)
We both open Envoy/Silver. I stick to a more traditional IGG strategy while he gets distracted by Pirates and Platinum. I win the curse war 6-4.

Game 4: kulap 30-34 andwilk (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/22/game-20120622-130900-b7e28a34.html)
This was the most interesting board we had. I decide to go Apothecary/Coppersmith and pick up Peddlers along the way with the extra buys from Wharf and Hamlet. I felt going for GMs were going to be too slow here. His more traditional Hamlet/Wharf/BM deck races out to a 4-1 Province lead but some mid-game level 2 Cities helped me put together two final big turns and I am able to outscore him 25-9 over our last 2 turns to eke out the victory.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: Rabid on June 23, 2012, 09:26:03 am

Rabid 3
Shark_bait 2

An excellent match, with a fun opponent.
We got several interesting boards:

Game 1
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/23/game-20120623-050523-0da9af19.html
Bazaar, Cache, Counting House, Duke, Fishing Village♦, Inn, Island, Mine, Rabble, Smugglers, and Young Witch
We both open YW / FV.
Adding lots of FV + Rabble, you want to rush duchies for the dukes, but then you get hit hard by rabble. I think we both added smugglers a bit to late. I took a few Islands earlier to clean out the estates and reduce the power of rabble attack, and think that made the difference.

Game 2
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/23/game-20120623-051823-ce05f908.html
Apprentice, Fool's Gold, Haven, Hunting Party, Library, Militia, Moneylender, Native Village, Oracle, and Scout
Militia / Silver into HP stack.
Moneylender / FG

I play this quite badly I think, should have added a few libraries.
Or just played the mirror match
Turn 9 I buy my first Prov, and Shark Bait gets to trash the only FG to gold.

Game 3
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/23/game-20120623-052639-4519ad12.html
Apprentice, Coppersmith, Duchess, Grand Market, Haggler, Harem, Library, Royal Seal, Tactician, and Wharf

S/S into tactician / wharf / haggler
Coppersmith / Silver into, 2 tac / 2 coppersmith.

I get the puzzlers dream hand of T3 $8, and it really slows me down I think.
Shark bait plays this one really well for the win.

Game 4
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/23/game-20120623-053456-ababdcf1.html
Chancellor, Chapel, Festival, Governor, Hoard, Mine, Mountebank, Pearl Diver, Royal Seal, and Talisman

Silver/ Chapel into governor
Silver / Chapel into MB + gov

Shark bait Chapel gets delayed until T5.
They needed to add a MB with either first or second $5 buy we think.
Possible even adding a second?
I think after the initial bad shuffle luck the best chance might be to drag the game out long as you can?

Game 5
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/23/game-20120623-055132-5d2d595b.html
Bazaar, Cache, Feast, Highway, Horn of Plenty, Minion, Rabble, Thief, Trading Post, and Village
Powerful HoP board.
We both open Feast village. (village opening for the win, I'm liking to open villages much more that I used to)
I use my first Feast on a Trading post, Shark bait on a Minion.
This lets me kill Estates to stop rabble, and at the end I only have 6 dead cards (3C, 3S vs 7C + 3E) not a huge difference but helps to line up rabble + village in 4 card minion hands.
Turn 13, I make a big mistake, I stop playing actions just before a reshuffle, with $5 + 2 HoP.
Then make my buy before playing the HoP's :(
But I draw well, and my mega turn fires on turn 17 for the win.

Thanks for the great match Shark bait, good luck with the rest of the event.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: Qvist on June 23, 2012, 09:46:21 am

Qvist 3 - chriskern 0

Qvist 26 - chriskern 19 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/23/game-20120623-061501-0c1c155b.html)

Not sure what to do here, so I opened Black Market / Salvager with no power $3s here. Maybe I can sneak a power card...
But then it was basically Big Money with Mining Village and Stables. I was really lucky with good draws and Salvager gave me the win.

chriskern 23 - Qvist 25 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/23/game-20120623-062406-6ce57cad.html)

Mountebank, Governor here and with Militia, Spy, Thief and Pirate Ship here an attack-heavy board. I got my first $5 in turn 9 as his Militia hit every time I had $5. But I picked up 2 Lookout so I can heavily trash and not fall back to far behind. After my Mountebank I buyed my Governors and with a luck draw in the end I could get 11 points in turn 20 and end the game. If he had a Militia in hand I would've lost.

chriskern 34 - Qvist 52 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/23/game-20120623-063158-9086be4a.html)

First time a really diverging strategy here. He went for Alchemists which was way too slow against a clear Duke board with Hoard, Bureaucrat and Feast as enablers. He hadn't seen that and that gave me the win.

Thx for the games chriskern, feel free to propose games anytime you see me in the lobby.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: yudantaiteki on June 23, 2012, 10:09:55 am

Thanks for the games; that alchemist strategy was a big mistake but other than that I feel like I played to my level 14 skill. :)

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: ycz6 on June 23, 2012, 12:23:21 pm

ycz6 3-2 Marin

A very close set, with lots of crazy asymmetric games and big comebacks. I think this says it all:

11:45 Marin: lol
11:45 Marin: and again a boring set
11:45 Marin: no engine possible.... :(

---

ycz6 51 38 Marin
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/23/game-20120623-081730-d20e8e0e.html

A Tournament game to start out. I open Lookout/Potion for Scrying Pool, he opens Tournament/Silver; that makes the difference, as despite his turn 8 Province and Followers my deck was more solid going into the mid-late game. My horrendous misclick on turn 15, where I forget to play my Princess, turns out not to matter.

ycz6 34 36 Marin
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/23/game-20120623-082842-61db5907.html

A weird Witch game with Minion, Upgrade, and Mining Village support. Duchesses ended up being kind of a big deal, as they fueled a significant portion of his huge 30-point Vineyards comeback.

ycz6 32 -100 Marin
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/23/game-20120623-083558-595c4d14.html

Another Tournament game, this time with Vault as support. I played Wishing Well better than I ever have, but with turns like Turn 11 I think it mostly came down to luck.

ycz6 25 28 Marin
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/23/game-20120623-084329-5ff0a372.html

We were both stunned by how this game turned out. Honestly, I think we both played horrendously.

ycz6 38 31 Marin
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/23/game-20120623-090256-6bdfbc6d.html

Another Fool's Gold game and another crazy 30-point comeback on Marin's part, but this time he fell just short. With just a bit of luck on his last turn we would've tied. A few tactical errors, including some misclicks, cost him big time, while I hugely underestimated how long the game would go.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: WanderingWinder on June 23, 2012, 01:11:54 pm

Quote from: ycz6 on June 23, 2012, 12:23:21 pm

ycz6 3-2 Marin

A very close set, with lots of crazy asymmetric games and big comebacks. I think this says it all:

11:45 Marin: lol
11:45 Marin: and again a boring set
11:45 Marin: no engine possible.... :(

I'm confused. None of these sets look boring to me, and engines are possible (if not necessarily best) in all, except maybe game 3.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: rspeer on June 23, 2012, 02:07:23 pm

Hoping to hear from heron soon.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: Marin on June 23, 2012, 02:08:35 pm

I am agree with you for the 2 first games, engine was possible (I use it game 2, and game 1 I just screwed up, I try to rush province but with scrying pool engine was really the best to do...) but where do you see engine potential in game 4 or 5?
Game 4: Alchemist , throne room and goons ... It call me for engine and I try it (buy remodel first for trash and then buy potion...) but they are not real trasher in it and IGG is here, so he just go for mass IGG and engine was not possible at all... (I really thought that with mass IGG he could not loose the game but goons fool's gold is really nice...).
And game 5: They are again fool's gold and moreover with Horse trader (or Woodcutter) so engine was really not possible (moreover the only +action cards was Inn which is not the best card to give action and the only drawer was Stables which is bad alone because if you buy too much of Stables, you don't succeed to got them with money...)
Finally 2 games on the 5 got engine potential and it is not so bad but like the first game I didn't go for it, it was as if it was only one game on the 5 and that's why I said:
"11:45 Marin: and again a boring set
11:45 Marin: no engine possible.... :("

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: WanderingWinder on June 23, 2012, 02:14:16 pm

Actually it might well be possible anyway in game 4, just I really don't think alchemist is the way to go - totally outclassed by stables. Though you also need to contest IGGs a little.
Game 5 you have woodcutter/FG, which is strong, but I mean, you have steward, militia, stables, inn... lots of ice engine components. I don't think it's so outclassed.

Hey, I'm not saying they're BEST, just that there are engines possible. And even plausible. If you don't like the best strategy, that's a you problem IMO.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: Teproc on June 23, 2012, 03:11:14 pm

Teproc 3 - angrybirds 2

Game 1 : Teproc 30 - angrybirds -100 (http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120623-103911-241b5856.html)

A Sea Hag slog. I take a significant lead thanks to Warehouses that help the Sea Hags come back quicker, and eventually he resigns rather than going through a very long game.

Game 2 : Teproc 42 - angrybirds 71 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/23/game-20120623-112905-4478747c.html)

Another Sea Hag game. I open Sea Hag/Silver because I want to get a Remake next and don't want collision witch Watchtower... which I realize now is completely stupid. He correctly opens Sea Hag/Watchtower and proceeds to beat me easily.

Game 3 : Teproc 44 - angrybirds 31 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/23/game-20120623-113738-aff65aa9.html)

Goons game, with Bazaar, Mining Village, Caravan and Council Room. I open Caravan/Silver to his Mining Village/Silver, and hit double-Goons more often than him, notably thanks to a lone Council Room, which he didn't buy until the last turns of the game.

Game 4 : Teproc 14 - angrybirds 22 (http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120623-114240-f49bb6ec.html)

IGG game. He buys an Envoy way earlier than me, which I think helped him win this one.

Game 5 : Teproc 15 - angrybirds -100 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/23/game-20120623-114648-1ad6e304.html)

We both get 5/2 : I open Festival/Lighthouse even though there are no attacks in the kingdom because of Tournament/Followers and Conspirator, he opens Festival/nothing. We both ignore Cities, I hit an early Forge, then a Province, then I Forge into another one, then connect it with my Tournament, getting Followers. When I connect it again, he concedes.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: lespeutere on June 23, 2012, 05:07:23 pm

lespeutere - Jfrisch 3-1

1-0
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/23/game-20120623-134145-02d0c3b2.html
3/4 -> tunnel/oracle vs. 5/2 ->margrave/moat
Tunnel support from both my oracles and his margraves

2-0
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/23/game-20120623-135357-f2a5962e.html
minions game with border villages available. I've made this mistake (I think) before so I skip BV until the end to keep my deck tighter. We split 5/5 and I manage to gain a lead and defend it.

2-1
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/23/game-20120623-135713-0c2bb985.html
(at least in this case:) silver/remake as p1 > silver/masquerade as p2; quite close, though

3-1
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/23/game-20120623-140144-a7abf5da.html
another masquerade game. Jfrisch goes for black market and manages to pull cursers out (mountebank and sea hag) but with masquerade it's manageable, apprentice helps.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: ycz6 on June 24, 2012, 07:48:58 pm

ITT: WanderingWinder berates Marin for not seeing engine possibilities

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: Kirian on June 24, 2012, 07:54:54 pm

Quote from: ycz6 on June 24, 2012, 07:48:58 pm

ITT: WanderingWinder berates Marin for not seeing engine possibilities

Indeed, indeed.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: Grujah on June 25, 2012, 11:44:59 am

Quote from: ycz6 on June 24, 2012, 07:48:58 pm

ITT: WanderingWinder berates Marin for not seeing engine possibilities

;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: Qvist on June 25, 2012, 03:47:30 pm

Round 3
Qvist 3 - 1 nightdance

Qvist 69 - 45 nightdance (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/25/game-20120625-113424-d287f67b.html)
With Mountebank the clear dominating card in this Colony game we both opened Remake/Silver. I get a Mountebank on turn 5 and 6, he one in turn 6 too. As first player I can curse him much faster and he made the mistake to pick up Banks instead of Golds in this cursing game. In turn 10 I get my first early Platinum and in tun 14 my second one. Here it was basically game over. In turn 16 I started greening, having 3 Colonies in turn 20. I was a little afraid, after he remade two Banks into Provinces in turn 26, but in the end it made no difference.

nightdance 23 - 36 Qvist (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/25/game-20120625-114609-e9015a51.html)
Apprentice + Hoard was strongest combo here, but nothing really strong to open here. I opened Black Market/Silver to his Moneylender/Black Market. His Black Market in turn 4 found a Young Witch and a Mountebank, luckily he had only $4 for the Young Witch. My Black Market found Duchess, Great Hall and Cellar. Great :) I buy 2 Apprentices to heavily trash my deck and prepare for the Hoard combo, but then in turn I found in the Black Market deck the Sea Hag. I pick up two Courtyards (Bane) as defense to heavily curse him now. It was very balanced until turn 16 where the Apprentice + Hoard combo activated. From there on I could get a Province every turn and won.

nightdance 32 - -100 Qvist (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/25/game-20120625-120137-93601955.html)
Crazy crazy game, because of Sea Hag + Scheme. He got first player advantage and has drawn Scheme + Sea Hag in turn 3. He flipped my Scheme and then it was basically over. I got $6 the first time in turn 19! After I know that I couldn't catch up, I resigned.

Qvist 55 - 47 nightdance (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/25/game-20120625-121255-0569d024.html)
No obvious combo for me to see here. With 5/2 we both opened Upgrade/- and picked up Black Market afterwards. Then we picked up a few Smugglers and it was basically Big Money. I had a little bit more luck and could win. I still have no idea how to play this board optimally.

Thanks for the games nightdance, feel free to propose games if you see me in the lobby.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: Kirian on June 25, 2012, 04:11:24 pm

I'll post a Round 3 thread shortly!

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: rspeer on June 26, 2012, 12:31:08 pm

I suppose my game is holding up the end of the round. I messaged my opponent, heron, last Friday and have not received a response.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: greatexpectations on June 26, 2012, 12:45:35 pm

Quote from: rspeer on June 26, 2012, 12:31:08 pm

I suppose my game is holding up the end of the round. I messaged my opponent, heron, last Friday and have not received a response.

i'm part of the problem too. after having some scheduling troubles me and yuma are set to play tonight.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: Kirian on June 26, 2012, 12:46:59 pm

Yours and yuma vs. greatexpectations, rspeer. But I got a PM from GE about he and yuma having scheduling troubles, and since the other tourney was starting, I felt it was important to go ahead and allow the postponement at that time.

Edit: lol, sniped.

Edit 2: Also, I'll PM heron to see what's up.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: yuma on June 29, 2012, 11:47:43 am

yuma 2 - great expectations 1 - 2 ties

yuma 56 - great expectations 30 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/29/game-20120629-080047-ff097fde.html) Goons game with Mountebank. I started 5/2 and had a huge turn 21.

great expectations 26 - yuma 15 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/29/game-20120629-080408-c671e517.html) Horse Traders into IGG with Gardens

tied at 83 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/29/game-20120629-081928-483cded0.html) Colony game with Grand Markets and Secret Chambers. I go Alchemist into it, greatexpectations goes Treasury. I fee like I had the worst potion luck I had ever experienced--see turn 20--but buying another potion probably would have been smart. greatexpectations had a great last turn to tie it.

yuma 57 - greatexpectations 28 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/29/game-20120629-082925-4f2805e2.html) Another Colony game. greatexpectations went Native Village/Council Room into Forge, but I was able to stop him with an interesting Young Witch/Minion combo and then used Hoard to hit Provinces.

tied at 33 (http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/29/game-20120629-083407-f769a023.html) Tournament game with Witch and Swindler. I only needed a tie to win the series so was happy to take the last estate to tie the game at the end.

Thanks for the games, good luck in round 3.

Title: Re: IsoDom 5: Round 2 Results Thread
Post by: Kirian on June 29, 2012, 02:53:24 pm

With yuma and GE's game in, and no word from heron, I'll PM him once more. If he isn't there, I'll declare a forfeit in rspeer's favor, because he hasn't been active on the forums nor in the tournament so far as I know.

Edit: No, I retract that. Neither I nor rspeer has heard anything from him since the start of the round, unlike yuma and GE, from whom I heard quite early that there would be a delay. Therefore, forfeit in rspeer's favor, and let's get this show on the road.