Dominion Strategy Forum
Archive => Archive => Innovation General Discussion => Topic started by: MainiacJoe on June 19, 2013, 05:06:27 pm
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It seems to me lately that whenever I try to use Metalworking as an early scorer, I wish I hadn't. If the scoring goes well and I get a lead in achievements, I still have a weak board and as often as not lose the mid-game. If the scoring goes poorly, then I have the bad board and nothing to show for it. Please help me out and discuss the best way to use this card.
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I'm also interested in hearing what the top players have to say about this. I personally don't use Metalworking much. On average, it's maybe slightly better than Pottery but comes with a few advantages:
1. If you're lucky, you can score a ton or even get Monument.
2. It increases hand size rather than just trading cards, which is useful if you want to have a big hand.
3. The icons can let you share Wheel or Domestication.
I think the best dogmas are clearly the green cards and Domestication. At 5th-best, Metalworking is a pretty average card. It's strictly better than drawing a card, but I think it's definitely preferable to do something more constructive.
tl;dr: IMO, it's not actually even that much better than Pottery. There's often better options.
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You need to take into account that it will only draw you cards without castles, and deny castles to your opponent.
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To expand on what HB said, drawing cards without castles means you are getting more leafs, crowns. This gives you a better board, since those icons are better in the transition to the midgame (ages 3-6). The early scoring can be great, but you also have to make the most of the cards that you draw, knowing that it will push you towards crown or leaf dominance. I feel like its not the best card, but I will use it pretty often if i don't have to share. Also, never share, they will always get Monument if you share (maybe it only feels that way :) ).
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Sharing Metalworking is a bit a jump-the-shark move, which can be ok if you are trailing. The other advantage is a more rapid consumption of decks. This is beneficial to you if you'd used an unshared Metalworking before and are likely trailing in castles.
Also, Pottery can be used to prepare a great Metalworking move. My opponent once performed this while I had already teched up and didn't care about low age cards.
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I don't like it personally, but I've seen it used to great effect against me. In the base game, I think it's definitely worthwhile, because castles become almost obsolete after age 4 (I've still used them effectively afterwards, but the age 2 / 3 cards pale in comparison power-wise to later cards).
It's most effective in age 1, since 9/15 cards are castles (including metalworking I believe). So if you have a non-castle in your hand, and your opponent melded a non-castle, then I say metalwork away! (There you got either an 8 / 12 or 7 / 12 chance of hitting a castle depending on the achievement).
In echoes, you need to achieve 1 more achievement, so my general power-building strategy starts to pay dividends later. There is an interesting dynamic with chopsticks (which allows you to create more achievements), where I've had five achievements by age 2 or something crazy like that.
Overall, it's not a bad card, and if you can get really lucky and nab monument + 1 / 2 / 3 i'd say you are well on your way to victory. Echoes I wouldn't recommend it personally, but it can also be effective!
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It's strictly better than drawing a card, ...
*Ahem* not if you desparately want to catch up in towers (to nip opponent's Construction in the bud, say).
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Using metalworking while behind in towers takes a special kind of chutzpah.
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It's usually a better play that standard draw action.
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Using metalworking while behind in towers takes a special kind of chutzpah.
It does have a kind of self-antisynergy in that regard: if you use it while you have the lead in towers, you don't draw any towers, so it can be hard for you to maintain that lead.
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Using metalworking while behind in towers takes a special kind of chutzpah.
You're guaranteed to draw two cards!!
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One of them might even have a castle!
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Edge case: you know that your opponent will not score any cards with Metalworking.
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Edge case: you know that your opponent will not score any cards with Metalworking.
That's not very edgy. The 1, 2, and 3 stacks are empty all the time.
Not up to f.ds edgecase snuff.
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Are you the edge case police?
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I wish
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I eliegel hereby nominate popsofctown as the first sheriff of edge cases.
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No, the edge case is like, you just returned Agriculture to Pottery when there were previously two 1s left. You draw and score one, then you draw another. Now you know the top 1 is Agriculture. You can safely share Metalworking!
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No, the edge case is like, you just returned Agriculture to Pottery when there were previously two 1s left. You draw and score one, then you draw another. Now you know the top 1 is Agriculture. You can safely share Metalworking!
I knew that was what dondon meant. Which is why I decided to de-edge his edge case
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Personally:
Extremely strong in base only game. Real. The most under-estimated part is that the strength of Metalworking in Age 2 is actually its prime say there are actually only ~8/14 chance that you can get an age 1 castle card for scoring but 5/10 in age 2. Think of the score gained in age 2 it is reasonably effective. Not only the scoring but think of what you can draw via Metalworking in age 2. Screening the scored cards out you would get {Currency, Calender, Math, Canal Building, Philosophy} where 2 of them are scorers which you can hinder your opponent from scoring, Math is generally strong, and Calender usually works well with Metalworking with an early score pile. The sharpness of Metalworking still stays in age 3 where you can nimbly take away Machinery which causes trouble to your large hand after Metalworking.
The greatness of Metalworking fades out a bit in base + echoes game but it is still a niche to play with especially with The Wheel and Mansory. The 12 castle style {Metalworking, The Wheel, Mansory, Mysticism} can instantly gives you both Monument and Supermacy and gives you a strong push for Construction(Empire) which is still extremely forceful.
Generally speaking, a 3 castle card in age1 is always a solid choice who can block out any Unchecked castle attempt at the beginning. With a solid effect which can turn some early achievement for you so why not. 8)