Dominion Strategy Forum
Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: Joseph2302 on January 22, 2015, 06:46:42 am
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Welcome to Blitz Mafia 20: The Perfect Dominion Engine!
Mod: Joseph2302 Co-Mod: Ashersky
Setup Information (Less Pressure (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Less_Pressure))
3 Mafia Goons
3 Vanilla Townies
2 Innocent Children
Mechanics:
This game is Nightless.
This game uses a White Flag: town needs to lynch any two Mafia Goons to win.
Mafia have daytalk.
When the first Mafia Goon is lynched, they get a return kill ("vengekill") at a town player.
Innocent Children are announced at the start of the game.
Rest of setup information is on next post
Players:
1. SwitchedFromStarcraft
2. Jimmmmm
3. Teproc
4. Awaclus
5. Witherweaver
6. EgorK
7. Eevee
8. Hydrad
Spectators: liopoil, shraeye
Joseph2302's Blitz Mafia Ruleset, with changes in PINK
The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment; inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments. Read The Civility Pledge (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7695.0) before signing up for this game. If you have not /pledged there, you cannot play here.
The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads.
2. If the game thread or QT is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Town night actions must be submitted by PM to the mod within 24 hours of day's end. The most recent order will always be valid. There are no nights.
5. Scum night actions must be submitted in QT within 24 hours of day's end. Any team member may submit all night actions. The most recent order(s) will always be valid. There are no nights.
6. Players must post once every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible text, fonts size less than 8, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between a lynch being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the lynched player.
11. Dead players may not post in thread or QT. A lynched player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Similar syntaxes ARE accepted e.g Vote:Playername, Vote : Playername Unambigiuous nicknames are acceptable, including obvious spelling mistakes.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: unvote or Unvote: Playername.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may vote: no lynch if you prefer. No lynch is not an option. Most votes at deadline dies; ties are decided randomly, using random.org.
5. Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.
The Deadlines:
1. Days will last 1 consecutive 24-hour period.
2. Nights will last two consecutive 24-hour periods. There are no nights.
3. Adjustments may be made to ensure days do not start or end on a Friday or Saturday. At the discretion of the mod, D1 start time may be adjusted to a more convenient time.
The Rest:
1. Bold, pink and maroon text is reserved for the Mod(s). Players may not use them.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game. Be aware: this is my first game moderating.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Bold all in-thread Mod questions and requests so that they don’t get missed.
6. Prods of inactive players will be issued automatically after 48 hours. A prodded player has 12 hours to respond or risks replacement. No prods, no replacements.
7. Players may request a prod after 24 hours without a post.
8. A player who has been prodded 3 times is subject to replacement without further notice.
9. In reference to 6-8, "inactive" is defined as not having posted in the game thread AND not having provided notice in the VLA Thread (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3621.0).
10. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.
11. The game will start once all places have been filled, and we have a comod.
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Mechanics:
This game is Nightless.
This game uses a White Flag: town needs to lynch any two Mafia Goons to win.
Mafia have daytalk.
When the first Mafia Goon is lynched, they get a return kill ("vengekill") at a town player.
Innocent Children are announced at the start of the game.
Flavour:
Town players are on the "Engine" team and Mafia players are on the "Knights" team. Flavour names will be independent of alignment, as all "Knights" will be given an additional safeclaim name. All Flavour names will be Dominion cards. Kill flavour is also independent of actual events. No prior knowledge of Dominion is required to play.
Sample Role PMs:
Mafia Goon
Welcome to ZM20, Donald X. You are Dame Josephine, the Knights aligned Mafia Goon. You don't think engines are fun, so decided to trash their Village.
Factional communication: Throughout the day, you may talk to your partners here: [QuickTopic link].
Vengekill: Your team may kill someone after the first Mafia Goon is lynched.
Win condition: You win when all members of the town are dead and at least two members of the mafia is alive, or nothing can prevent the same.
Please confirm your role by posting in your QT.
Vanilla Townie
Welcome to ZM20, Donald X. You are Gold, the Engine aligned Vanilla Townie.
Your only power is the power of the vote, so use it wisely.
You win when 2 mafia goons have been lynched.
Please confirm via PM.
Innocent Child
Welcome to ZM20, Donald X. You are Silver, the Engine aligned Innocent Child! At the beginning of the game, your role and alignment will be revealed to all players by the mod.
You win when 2 mafia goons have been lynched.
Please confirm via PM.
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/in
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/confirmed in
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confirming /in
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+1 for flavor and /tag
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/in
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/in
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Hey, i could play this. When are we planning to start?
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Hey, i could play this. When are we planning to start?
As soon as we're full and I have a comod, then I'll send out PMs. As soon as everyone has confirmed their PMs, we can start D1.
I know that's very vague, but it does kind of depend on it filling up. If we fill up in the next 6-7 hours, I can send the PMs today, if not I'll probably expect to send PMs early tomorrow (early morning forum time). So D1 will probably start tomorrow, I guess.
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In. It's a great idea to run this again!
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It was Jimmmmm's idea, but it seems popular. :)
One space to go.
Also, I've PMed SwitchedFromStarcraft to check he definitely still wants to play (he said /in on the game queue thread yesterday).
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Oh, SfS is playing? Yippee! Count me in twice.
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Confirming in for this game. Confirming that I read the setup (be careful using my meta on that topic - best go look at the blitz games I modded).
Confirming that I read and accepted the Civility Pledge, at post #163 (page 7) of that thread.
Vote: Eevee for buddying up to me before roles are even assigned.
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Vote: SfS for reading the setup.
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Did you read my warning?
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I sent a PM to Shraeye, hoping to entice him back.
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Great, so just one space left + a comod and then we can start N0.
Also, if people have preferences for game start time, feel free to post them.
Another thing: if we're full but waiting for a comod, the thread will stay unlocked until just before I send PMs. So people can continue to make RVs if they want.
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pink text is going to be really hard to read if you don't boldface it. You may want to rethink your choice of mod-reserved color.
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Yeah, the pink your were using above was fine, but the one in #17 is a little too pale.
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I'm just not going to read any mod posts.
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I'm just not going to read any mod posts.
So you're saying you know everyone's alignement anyway. SCUMSLIP !
vote : Witherweaver
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Yeah, the pink your were using above was fine, but the one in #17 is a little too pale.
Sorry, I accidentally changed from using HotPink to pink. Better now? I'll also bold things too.
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Unvote
Vote: WW (the one in this game, not the one we all are) for antitown behavior
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Vote: SfS for not actually /pledge ing
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Vote: SfS for not actually /pledge ing
How you figure? I gave the post number, for crying out loud.
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Syntax! I mean, the last guy that only stated...
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Vote: SfS for not actually /pledge ing
How you figure? I gave the post number, for crying out loud.
You didn't actually /pledge, you just said "I do so pledge". You're clearly planning to pull off a reinoe.
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Do you guys really think reinoe purposefully did not say "/pledge" ? I mean, I'm not even sure I used that exact syntax myself, or that it was specifically requested in the pledge itself.
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Do you guys really think reinoe purposefully did not say "/pledge" ? I mean, I'm not even sure I used that exact syntax myself, or that it was specifically requested in the pledge itself.
No, but I think it's funny.
The Pledge thread does not actually state that you have to post anything there. The *rules* thread states that you have to /pledge in the Pledge thread.
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The Golden Rule does say you have to use /pledge, and it seems the majority of people have signed it with /pledge. So, SfS, please can you add a /pledge? I'm just being super careful after an incident with someone who "didn't officially pledge".
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Other people have not said "/pledge" before and were fine...
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Other people have not said "/pledge" before and were fine...
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I'll be happy to post whatever language in that thread that the mod needs, but TRUST ME, this is not a conversation you want to start with me. The incident that led to the creation of the "Civility Pledge" was the SECOND time an issue arose that was big/ugly enough to warrant it. I was deeply involved/victimized in the first, so you are barking up the wrong tree.
On a somewhat related note: my warning about reading setups was not meant lightly. I'll save you the research, but my modded threads will show that when I mod, you have to confirm in-thread that you have a)read the rules and b) read the setup. One of the reasons I required reading the rules was because The Golden Rule was featured as exactly that:
The Golden Rule:
Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun! Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game.
/rant
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I meant it all as a joke.
Also, not reading the setup (and "reading the setup is scummy") is kind of a running joke.
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I meant it all as a joke.
Me too.
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I have now entered the following characters in post #164 of the Civility Pledge thread:
/pledge
By so entering said characters, my intent is to signify that a) I have read the first post in that thread, b) agree with the thoughts in that post, and c) agree to conduct myself, during this game and all subsequent games, in a manner that will continuously and conspicuously exemplify that agreement. The forward slash is NOT intended to represent an "end" to a "pledge", as it would in the following syntax:
[q u o t e] sometext [/q u o t e]
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I'll have my legal team parse this all, but for now I'm okay with it.
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I meant it all as a joke.
I get that, and it's all good. I just NEVER EVER want a repeat of what I went through, and I'm truly sorry you guys had something else blow up in the intervening time. Plus now the Rienoe thing - I completely understand. (I wasn't even playing in that one, and was hugely disappointed, because the entire community missed out).
Rest assured, that after a 35-year career in quality assurance, I'm never against good documentation.
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I'll have my legal team parse this all, but for now I'm okay with it.
Don't double pay, my lawyer looked it over - it's good. 8)
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I don't actually know your story, by the way. It was before my time. I saw a couple of references in recent threads, but that's it.
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That's fine, Civility Pledge arguments over, hopefully we'll never actually have to refer to it. And sorry if I helped stir up unpleasant memories from past games, that wasn't my intention.
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No problem, it's long ago. Somebody did something that they thought was within the rules, but wasn't. So to obviate the problem, I started requiring that rules and setups be read.
A few people got apoplectic about games not starting until appropriate posts were made, and some players got shut out of games because they didn't follow directions on how to enter. But it eliminated a recurrence.
So I had to laugh at "I just won't read moderator posts". Ahhhh, the memories.... I love the smell of napalm in the morning.
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taggy
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one space left + a comod and then we can start N0. c'mon people, let's hammer!!!
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Would this get more visibility under "Mafia Games", or can it only be moved once the game actually starts?
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Joseph, you may want to edit the thread title to make it clear that we only need 1 more player.
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Joseph, you may want to edit the thread title to make it clear that we only need 1 more player.
Done
Would this get more visibility under "Mafia Games", or can it only be moved once the game actually starts?
I could do, but this is the standard place to look for games. I've also posted about in in the Mafia Queue thread and the Talk at Night threads. I'll leave it for now, but might move it later.
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I can help mod.
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I can help mod.
Thanks :) Just one more player needed, then we can start.
The PMs will be sent out tomorrow (assuming another person /in s).
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I can help mod.
Send me the mod QT.
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Sure I can /in
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I can help mod.
Send me the mod QT.
Better do as he says...
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And we are full, PMs will be sent soon.
THREAD LOCKED!!
Players may not post, but spectators may still /tag.
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Role PMs have been sent. Day 1 will commence when everyone has confirmed.
Thread is still LOCKED to players.
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I'm rooting for the good guys.
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Still waiting for some confirmations before Day 1 can begin.
EDIT: All confirmations received!
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The people of F.DS had a great idea one day. "How about we build the best Dominion Engine possible", they said. So they got out the key engine components, King's Court, Grand Market, Quarry. But suddenly one of them discovered a problem. "There's knights in this kingdom".
It was clear that their plan was being sabotaged, by fiends who wanted to trash all these wonderful engine components, and bring the world of Dominion into disrepute, chaos, hatred and slogging.
And so it was agreed that the only way to build this perfect engine was to find and remove these knights, so that the rest of the fun-loving engine components could be in peace, in the greatest Dominion engine ever made. Let the quest begin.......
But the Knights could not be Jimmmmm or Hydrad, for they detest Knights so much that they burned the Knights in their Dominion:Dark Ages copies. And so it must be some of the other 6........
(for clarification, Jimmmmm and Hydrad are the Innocent children)
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Thread Unlocked
Vote Count 1.00
Not Voting ( 8 ): SwitchedFromStarcraft, Jimmmmm, Teproc, Awaclus, Witherweaver, EgorK, Eevee, Hydrad
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day One ends at 10:30 am forum time (1530 UTC), Saturday January 24th.
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So, so happy that Hydrad is an IC.
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Speaking of which, ICs were chosen randomly here, correct ?
I remember one version of this setup where scum chose them, in which case we could discuss these choices, but I don't think that's the one we used the last time.
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So, so happy that Hydrad is an IC.
Happier that Jimmmmm is.
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Speaking of which, ICs were chosen randomly here, correct ?
I remember one version of this setup where scum chose them, in which case we could discuss these choices, but I don't think that's the one we used the last time.
Vote: Teproc
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So, so happy that Hydrad is an IC.
Happier that Jimmmmm is.
I was going to say Jimmmm wasn't that hard to read, and then I rememberd LEgend of Zelda. Ugh.
PPE : What for ?
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Scratch that, I don't need you to say it : yes there's WIFOM because I could be scum trying to act as if I didn't know, but what am I supposed to do, not ask the question ?
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"I must be town because if I was scum then I'd know whether or not we chose the ICs."
i.e., constructed townslip.
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Scratch that, I don't need you to say it : yes there's WIFOM because I could be scum trying to act as if I didn't know, but what am I supposed to do, not ask the question ?
Would the question occur to you as town? It didn't to me.
In the previous iteration of this setup, didn't we all vote on the IC ahead of time, not just scum?
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First!
I claim VT!
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Scratch that, I don't need you to say it : yes there's WIFOM because I could be scum trying to act as if I didn't know, but what am I supposed to do, not ask the question ?
Would the question occur to you as town? It didn't to me.
In the previous iteration of this setup, didn't we all vote on the IC ahead of time, not just scum?
Did we ? Wasn't that Death Note Mafia ?
See, this is why I asked the question, I'm not quite surehow it works anymore, and it's not 100% clear from the setup.
PPE : One of our ICs is already fakeclaiming, great.
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Yes, the ICs were chosen randomly, using random.org.
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No, Death Note Mafia was where scum chose the Notebearer.
Last time we ran this blitz, we all submitted PMs to the mod (Ash) to vote for IC. I ended up getting voted for. (It was funny because I had been scum 24 times before that.)
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Scratch that, I don't need you to say it : yes there's WIFOM because I could be scum trying to act as if I didn't know, but what am I supposed to do, not ask the question ?
Would the question occur to you as town? It didn't to me.
In the previous iteration of this setup, didn't we all vote on the IC ahead of time, not just scum?
Did we ? Wasn't that Death Note Mafia ?
See, this is why I asked the question, I'm not quite surehow it works anymore, and it's not 100% clear from the setup.
PPE : One of our ICs is already fakeclaiming, great.
Obviously, you could only know it's not 100% clear form the setup if you read the setup. Therefore scum. QED.
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I suggest a massclaim in seniority order!
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I suggest a massclaim in seniority order!
So... Eevee>SFS>Jimmmm>Teproc>WW>Egork>Hydrad>Awaclus right ?
We already know Jimmmm is claiming VT and WW is claiming lame joke voter, so we've got that settled.
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Sidenote : what does QED stand for ? I understand what it means based on context I think, but still.
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Sidenote : what does QED stand for ? I understand what it means based on context I think, but still.
It stands for the Latin phrase quod erat demonstrandum, which translates to "which had to be proven". It would be used at the end of a proof when you arrive at and exactly restate the original statement. Though when it's used now, it's often just to denote the end of the proof.
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I suggest a massclaim in seniority order!
So... Eevee>SFS>Jimmmm>Teproc>WW>Egork>Hydrad>Awaclus right ?
What specific seniority criteria were used to draw up this list?
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Vote: WW
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I think I've only played one game that had confirmed ICs, and in that game the ICs (particularly Shraeye, IIRC) sort of led the way. Is that a valid strategy in IC games? Jim, Hydrad: any thoughts on that?
Also, with days this short, the difference in time zones may become an issue, so I'll just ask. Where is everyone? I'm on eastern time in the US.
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I suggest a massclaim in seniority order!
So... Eevee>SFS>Jimmmm>Teproc>WW>Egork>Hydrad>Awaclus right ?
What specific seniority criteria were used to draw up this list?
First game played here. Pretty sure Eevee started with MIII and you started with MIV right ?
@WW : Huh, usually we're the ones keeping latin locutions around, but we have our own for that one (CQFD => Ce Qu'il Fallait Démontrer => "what you had to demonstrate).
Anyway, back to the game.
SFS, I do not think ICs should be leading town at all here. In fact, I think they should mostly be silent. Well, not silent exactly, they should be active, but they should hide their reads.
Basically VTs have better odds than ICs at finding scum. This is always true, but it's particularly important in this setup, where the game is basically decided on day 1 (we've run this setup a few times and I think every time whichever faction lost someone on D1 lost the game).
Here, if you're a VT, you're looking at 3 scum out of 5 players. Those are some amazing odds, so really the main thing is for VTs to convince ICs they're town, and then lynching scum is pretty easy... so it all depends on how good you are at making yourself obvtown.
This is also a setup where team dynamics are really important. Scum has daychat, and they are half of the lynchpool, so thinking in terms of scumteam is actually very valuable for once, though obviously scum is aware of that.
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Oh, and I'm on whatever the name of Greenwich +1 is. Central European Time I think ?
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Oh, I forgot about the daychat.
Vote: Awaclus
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And it's nightless.
And I don't think this is the same as the blitz one we did last time. That had three scum, right?
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Last time bussing, and some seemingly staged fights, was kind of big for scum. I wouldn't expect it as much here with only two.
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Last time bussing, and some seemingly staged fights, was kind of big for scum. I wouldn't expect it as much here with only two.
Cant' tell if you're trolling.
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Vote Count 1.01
Witherweaver ( 1 ): Awaclus
Awaclus ( 1 ): Witherweaver
Not Voting ( 6 ): SwitchedFromStarcraft, Jimmmmm, EgorK, Eevee, Hydrad, Teproc
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day One ends at 10:30 am forum time (1530 UTC), Saturday January 24th.
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constructed townslip.
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Last time bussing, and some seemingly staged fights, was kind of big for scum. I wouldn't expect it as much here with only two.
Cant' tell if you're trolling.
What do you mean?
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Did you play the last one? ADK came out against one of his partner's (e?) in the beginning kind of aggressively.
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constructed townslip.
har har
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Oh, I forgot about the daychat.
Vote: Awaclus
This post feels like it's thematically linked to this one:
"I must be town because if I was scum then I'd know whether or not we chose the ICs."
i.e., constructed townslip.
It feels like you are maneuvering/"working it" a little too hard.
Vote: WW
PPE: And while I'm writing this, you make two references to "point out" that you haven't read the setup.
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I can't read, sorry.
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I think WW and Teproc are both scum.
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I think WW and Teproc are both scum.
You're wrong.
I think Teproc is more town now in his reaction to my voting for him.
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It really really sucks, and I hate, hate the notion that people are townie for not reading the setup, but this reads genuine to me. It's too over-the-top. The daychat thing, yes, scum would definitely go "derp-a-derp there is daychat ?", but going so far as to say there are only two scum ? I don't know, this feels like WW is just out of it and read "2 ICs" and thought "2 scum" because he hates ICs or something.
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Also because scum didn't choose the IC last time and didn't choose them here. If he was constructing a townslip, he likely would have thought to look up the last game to see what actually happened there.
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I think WW and Teproc are both scum.
Do you disagree with my assessment about ICs keeping their reads to themselves (note : you don't really have to answer this) ?
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It really really sucks, and I hate, hate the notion that people are townie for not reading the setup, but this reads genuine to me. It's too over-the-top. The daychat thing, yes, scum would definitely go "derp-a-derp there is daychat ?", but going so far as to say there are only two scum ? I don't know, this feels like WW is just out of it and read "2 ICs" and thought "2 scum" because he hates ICs or something.
I just thought that it said 2.
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Then he is clearly not reading the thread either - you posted about the scumhunting odds being good for us, as we are looking for 3 scum in a pool of 5.
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It really really sucks, and I hate, hate the notion that people are townie for not reading the setup, but this reads genuine to me. It's too over-the-top. The daychat thing, yes, scum would definitely go "derp-a-derp there is daychat ?", but going so far as to say there are only two scum ? I don't know, this feels like WW is just out of it and read "2 ICs" and thought "2 scum" because he hates ICs or something.
I just thought that it said 2.
Wow.
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Then he is clearly not reading the thread either - you posted about the scumhunting odds being good for us, as we are looking for 3 scum in a pool of 5.
I glanced over it. I saw something like "half the lynchpool" and assumed he was approximating. I knew what he was trying to say (the main point was that we have a better chance of finding scum than the ICs do, because we have more knowledge), so I didn't pay attention to the details.
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Then he is clearly not reading the thread either - you posted about the scumhunting odds being good for us, as we are looking for 3 scum in a pool of 5.
So, you think this is constructed and WW is scum ?
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Also, with days this short, the difference in time zones may become an issue, so I'll just ask. Where is everyone? I'm on eastern time in the US.
UTC+2.
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Also, with days this short, the difference in time zones may become an issue, so I'll just ask. Where is everyone? I'm on eastern time in the US.
UTC+2.
Whiel you're here, mind posting something relevant to the game ?
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Then he is clearly not reading the thread either - you posted about the scumhunting odds being good for us, as we are looking for 3 scum in a pool of 5.
So, you think this is constructed and WW is scum ?
The suggestion that you and WW are both scum doesn't sound that ridiculous to me.
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Also, with days this short, the difference in time zones may become an issue, so I'll just ask. Where is everyone? I'm on eastern time in the US.
UTC+2.
Whiel you're here, mind posting something relevant to the game ?
I guess I could have said that and relevant stuff in the same post, but it takes me a while to word things and I wanted to post it as soon as possible.
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SFS could be scum too. Eevee and EgorK have been mostly lurking so it's hard to say anything about them yet.
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Then he is clearly not reading the thread either - you posted about the scumhunting odds being good for us, as we are looking for 3 scum in a pool of 5.
So, you think this is constructed and WW is scum ?
I think he is scum because the two posts I quoted in my vote post felt forced enough they rang false to me; the posts since then signify anti-town behavior on the face of them. Anti-town behavior is not necessarily indicative of scum, but his nonchalance feels controlled/contrived.
I don't have many games under my belt, and I have no meta on anybody here (save Jim), so my scumhunting consists of looking at little things, and matching them up with other little things, and seeing where that leads.
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Then he is clearly not reading the thread either - you posted about the scumhunting odds being good for us, as we are looking for 3 scum in a pool of 5.
So, you think this is constructed and WW is scum ?
The suggestion that you and WW are both scum doesn't sound that ridiculous to me.
I can see that obviously, but I don't think it holds up all that well to scrutiny actually. Regardless of that, let's assume I'm town for a second : do you still think WW is scum ? Or is it mostly our interactions that make you suspicious ?
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SFS could be scum too. Eevee and EgorK have been mostly lurking so it's hard to say anything about them yet.
Mostly lurking? EgorK hasn't posted, and Eevee suggested claiming.
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Then he is clearly not reading the thread either - you posted about the scumhunting odds being good for us, as we are looking for 3 scum in a pool of 5.
So, you think this is constructed and WW is scum ?
I think he is scum because the two posts I quoted in my vote post felt forced enough they rang false to me; the posts since then signify anti-town behavior on the face of them. Anti-town behavior is not necessarily indicative of scum, but his nonchalance feels controlled/contrived.
I don't have many games under my belt, and I have no meta on anybody here (save Jim), so my scumhunting consists of looking at little things, and matching them up with other little things, and seeing where that leads.
Antitown behavior is generally indicative of not-scum.
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Then he is clearly not reading the thread either - you posted about the scumhunting odds being good for us, as we are looking for 3 scum in a pool of 5.
So, you think this is constructed and WW is scum ?
I think he is scum because the two posts I quoted in my vote post felt forced enough they rang false to me; the posts since then signify anti-town behavior on the face of them. Anti-town behavior is not necessarily indicative of scum, but his nonchalance feels controlled/contrived.
I don't have many games under my belt, and I have no meta on anybody here (save Jim), so my scumhunting consists of looking at little things, and matching them up with other little things, and seeing where that leads.
Antitown behavior is generally indicative of not-scum.
Not that easy. Lurking is anti-town and scum does it all the time. Also good scum players can be very anti-town and get away with it thanks to that argument (see : ash in Super Mario Mafia).
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I can see that obviously, but I don't think it holds up all that well to scrutiny actually. Regardless of that, let's assume I'm town for a second : do you still think WW is scum ? Or is it mostly our interactions that make you suspicious ?
The fact that more than half of you non-ICs are scum make me suspicious of everyone by default, and your interactions aren't helping at all.
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Then he is clearly not reading the thread either - you posted about the scumhunting odds being good for us, as we are looking for 3 scum in a pool of 5.
So, you think this is constructed and WW is scum ?
I think he is scum because the two posts I quoted in my vote post felt forced enough they rang false to me; the posts since then signify anti-town behavior on the face of them. Anti-town behavior is not necessarily indicative of scum, but his nonchalance feels controlled/contrived.
I don't have many games under my belt, and I have no meta on anybody here (save Jim), so my scumhunting consists of looking at little things, and matching them up with other little things, and seeing where that leads.
Antitown behavior is generally indicative of not-scum.
Not that easy. Lurking is anti-town and scum does it all the time. Also good scum players can be very anti-town and get away with it thanks to that argument (see : ash in Super Mario Mafia).
That's why I said generally :P
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Then he is clearly not reading the thread either - you posted about the scumhunting odds being good for us, as we are looking for 3 scum in a pool of 5.
So, you think this is constructed and WW is scum ?
I think he is scum because the two posts I quoted in my vote post felt forced enough they rang false to me; the posts since then signify anti-town behavior on the face of them. Anti-town behavior is not necessarily indicative of scum, but his nonchalance feels controlled/contrived.
I don't have many games under my belt, and I have no meta on anybody here (save Jim), so my scumhunting consists of looking at little things, and matching them up with other little things, and seeing where that leads.
Antitown behavior is generally indicative of not-scum.
I don't generally disagree with that statement (unless the player is Jotheonah, then all bets are off). However, your anti-town behavior feels contrived enough to be a reverse tell. You calling it out is the next logical extension. My vote is my only weapon, I use it liberally.
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I can't really argue with how things feel for you. But I can tell you that you're wrong here.
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SFS could be scum too. Eevee and EgorK have been mostly lurking so it's hard to say anything about them yet.
Mostly lurking? EgorK hasn't posted, and Eevee suggested claiming.
So you do read some details? Interesting.
"Mostly" is the word I'd use for one post among two players, yet the difference between a 3 (mafia) in 5 (players) situation and a 2 (mafia) in 5 (players) situation is simply an approximation error, because you "didn't pay attention to the details" in the original post.
PPE: I could be wrong about your alignment, but I'm not wrong about the anti-town behavior, and the inconsistencies that are starting to show up
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Responding in order. I'm in forum time, but woke up before six in the morning.
I suggest a massclaim in seniority order!
So... Eevee>SFS>Jimmmm>Teproc>WW>Egork>Hydrad>Awaclus right ?
We already know Jimmmm is claiming VT and WW is claiming lame joke voter, so we've got that settled.
Oh I meant newer guys go first. Is that juniority order?
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SFS could be scum too. Eevee and EgorK have been mostly lurking so it's hard to say anything about them yet.
Mostly lurking? EgorK hasn't posted, and Eevee suggested claiming.
So you do read some details? Interesting.
"Mostly" is the word I'd use for one post among two players, yet the difference between a 3 (mafia) in 5 (players) situation and a 2 (mafia) in 5 (players) situation is simply an approximation error, because you "didn't pay attention to the details" in the original post.
PPE: I could be wrong about your alignment, but I'm not wrong about the anti-town behavior, and the inconsistencies that are starting to show up
I actually didn't think Eevee had posted, but I went back and checked.
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I'm not sure what the point of the inconsistencies comment is.
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And it's nightless.
And I don't think this is the same as the blitz one we did last time. That had three scum, right?
This is so weird it feels towny. WW top town read at this point.
I agree IC's might want to keep some things in the dark. Really keep in mind scum has daychat and is coordinating their efforts to lead you astray. Never trust words in this setup, but concrete actions. Town should aim for strong stances because scum likes a wishy washy environment where they can just conveniently flip or push others to flip the right way at the end. Showing you are yoen to other townies, especially the IC's is a priority, so we should try to do things scum doesn't want to do or wouldn't think of doing. I think stream of conscious posting works well in this setup.
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And it's nightless.
And I don't think this is the same as the blitz one we did last time. That had three scum, right?
This is so weird it feels towny. WW top town read at this point.
So you're the third scum!
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And it's nightless.
And I don't think this is the same as the blitz one we did last time. That had three scum, right?
This is so weird it feels towny. WW top town read at this point.
I agree IC's might want to keep some things in the dark. Really keep in mind scum has daychat and is coordinating their efforts to lead you astray. Never trust words in this setup, but concrete actions. Town should aim for strong stances because scum likes a wishy washy environment where they can just conveniently flip or push others to flip the right way at the end. Showing you are yoen to other townies, especially the IC's is a priority, so we should try to do things scum doesn't want to do or wouldn't think of doing. I think stream of conscious posting works well in this setup.
When the shadow of the sash appeared in the curtains it was between seven and eight oclock and then I was in time again, hearing the watch. It was Grandfather’s and when Father gave it to me he said I give you the mausoleum of all hope and desire; it’s rather excrutiatingly apt that you will use it to gain the reducto absurdum of all human experience which can fit your individual needs no better than it fitted his or his father’s. I give it to you not that you may remember time, but that you might forget it now and then for a moment and not spend all your breath trying to conquer it. Because no battle is ever won he said. They are not even fought. The field only reveals to man his own folly and despair, and victory is an illusion of philosophers and fools.
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And it's nightless.
And I don't think this is the same as the blitz one we did last time. That had three scum, right?
This is so weird it feels towny. WW top town read at this point.
So you're the third scum!
Shall we call the game over?
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And it's nightless.
And I don't think this is the same as the blitz one we did last time. That had three scum, right?
This is so weird it feels towny. WW top town read at this point.......
In what way did it feel weird to you?
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And it's nightless.
And I don't think this is the same as the blitz one we did last time. That had three scum, right?
This is so weird it feels towny. WW top town read at this point.
So you're the third scum!
Shall we call the game over?
Well, at least one of them has to be scum. And since I know that for sure, it would make a lot of sense if more than one of them were scum.
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And it's nightless.
And I don't think this is the same as the blitz one we did last time. That had three scum, right?
This is so weird it feels towny. WW top town read at this point.
I agree IC's might want to keep some things in the dark. Really keep in mind scum has daychat and is coordinating their efforts to lead you astray. Never trust words in this setup, but concrete actions. Town should aim for strong stances because scum likes a wishy washy environment where they can just conveniently flip or push others to flip the right way at the end. Showing you are yoen to other townies, especially the IC's is a priority, so we should try to do things scum doesn't want to do or wouldn't think of doing. I think stream of conscious posting works well in this setup.
When the shadow of the sash appeared in the curtains it was between seven and eight oclock and then I was in time again, hearing the watch. It was Grandfather’s and when Father gave it to me he said I give you the mausoleum of all hope and desire; it’s rather excrutiatingly apt that you will use it to gain the reducto absurdum of all human experience which can fit your individual needs no better than it fitted his or his father’s. I give it to you not that you may remember time, but that you might forget it now and then for a moment and not spend all your breath trying to conquer it. Because no battle is ever won he said. They are not even fought. The field only reveals to man his own folly and despair, and victory is an illusion of philosophers and fools.
There is a time in every man's education when he arrives at the conviction that envy is ignorance; that imitation is suicide; that he must take himself for better, for worse, as his portion; that though the wide universe is full of good, no kernel of nourishing corn can come to him but through his toil bestowed on that plot of ground which is given to him to till. The power which resides in him is new in nature, and none but he knows what that is which he can do, nor does he know until he has tried.
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And it's nightless.
And I don't think this is the same as the blitz one we did last time. That had three scum, right?
This is so weird it feels towny. WW top town read at this point.
I agree IC's might want to keep some things in the dark. Really keep in mind scum has daychat and is coordinating their efforts to lead you astray. Never trust words in this setup, but concrete actions. Town should aim for strong stances because scum likes a wishy washy environment where they can just conveniently flip or push others to flip the right way at the end. Showing you are yoen to other townies, especially the IC's is a priority, so we should try to do things scum doesn't want to do or wouldn't think of doing. I think stream of conscious posting works well in this setup.
When the shadow of the sash appeared in the curtains it was between seven and eight oclock and then I was in time again, hearing the watch. It was Grandfather’s and when Father gave it to me he said I give you the mausoleum of all hope and desire; it’s rather excrutiatingly apt that you will use it to gain the reducto absurdum of all human experience which can fit your individual needs no better than it fitted his or his father’s. I give it to you not that you may remember time, but that you might forget it now and then for a moment and not spend all your breath trying to conquer it. Because no battle is ever won he said. They are not even fought. The field only reveals to man his own folly and despair, and victory is an illusion of philosophers and fools.
There is a time in every man's education when he arrives at the conviction that envy is ignorance; that imitation is suicide; that he must take himself for better, for worse, as his portion; that though the wide universe is full of good, no kernel of nourishing corn can come to him but through his toil bestowed on that plot of ground which is given to him to till. The power which resides in him is new in nature, and none but he knows what that is which he can do, nor does he know until he has tried.
That's, like, the opposite of stream of consciousness!
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Obviously we shouldn't be making hasty decisions before everyone has had a chance to post, though. If EgorK also defends WW, I'm going to be super confused though.
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That's, like, the opposite of stream of consciousness!
Yeah, but I didn't like Eevee's second suggestion any better than the first. Plus, I took The Sound and The Fury as an editorial comment.
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And it's nightless.
And I don't think this is the same as the blitz one we did last time. That had three scum, right?
This is so weird it feels towny. WW top town read at this point.......
In what way did it feel weird to you?
It's not a fake slip I'd expect WW to make. If it's genuine, he must be town.
My top scum read is SfS. I know careless setup mistakes irk him, but i find WW towny and SfS trying to paint him as scummy feels fake and contrived to me. I don't agree with the reasoning.
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And it's nightless.
And I don't think this is the same as the blitz one we did last time. That had three scum, right?
This is so weird it feels towny. WW top town read at this point.......
In what way did it feel weird to you?
It's not a fake slip I'd expect WW to make. If it's genuine, he must be town.
My top scum read is SfS. I know careless setup mistakes irk him, but i find WW towny and SfS trying to paint him as scummy feels fake and contrived to me. I don't agree with the reasoning.
It's also like he is building towards the read, first just wondering about the mistake, then starting to list reasons why he thinks it makes WW scum.
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And it's nightless.
And I don't think this is the same as the blitz one we did last time. That had three scum, right?
This is so weird it feels towny. WW top town read at this point.......
In what way did it feel weird to you?
It's not a fake slip I'd expect WW to make. If it's genuine, he must be town.
My top scum read is SfS. I know careless setup mistakes irk him, but i find WW towny and SfS trying to paint him as scummy feels fake and contrived to me. I don't agree with the reasoning.
It's also like he is building towards the read, first just wondering about the mistake, then starting to list reasons why he thinks it makes WW scum.
I like this point. This is a good point.
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And it's nightless.
And I don't think this is the same as the blitz one we did last time. That had three scum, right?
This is so weird it feels towny. WW top town read at this point.......
In what way did it feel weird to you?
It's not a fake slip I'd expect WW to make. If it's genuine, he must be town.
My top scum read is SfS. I know careless setup mistakes irk him, but i find WW towny and SfS trying to paint him as scummy feels fake and contrived to me. I don't agree with the reasoning.
That sort of didn't answer my question, and I'm not arguing that the post you quoted is a slip, nor is it why I'm voting for him. I agree that if that particular post is genuine, it seems towny. And your meta on what he would fake or not is useful to you. But I ask again, what was weird about it?
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That we ran this game 10 times and it was always with 3 scum. He was also around and active at the time, commenting all over. The executions seems more like a careless guy posting anything he thinks of rarher than a devious scum plot set into motion.
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I think its highly unlikely the mistake is genuine and he is scum.
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And it's nightless.
And I don't think this is the same as the blitz one we did last time. That had three scum, right?
This is so weird it feels towny. WW top town read at this point.......
In what way did it feel weird to you?
It's not a fake slip I'd expect WW to make. If it's genuine, he must be town.
My top scum read is SfS. I know careless setup mistakes irk him, but i find WW towny and SfS trying to paint him as scummy feels fake and contrived to me. I don't agree with the reasoning.
It's also like he is building towards the read, first just wondering about the mistake, then starting to list reasons why he thinks it makes WW scum.
Excellent deflection. You've now used the word "slip" regarding a post I've not called into question, and you reference "the mistake" (on WW's part?). I've used neither term, nor have I made any assertion regarding a slip or mistake of any kind. I just pointed out that the construction of two posts seemed like artifice.
Everything else I've commented on I would label "discrepancies" or "inconsistencies", where WW says one thing and then disproves himself. Those aren't necessarily mistakes, just inconsistencies. I like putting pressure on people, to see how they react. Read MIV.
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I think its highly unlikely the mistake is genuine and he is scum.
I'll agree with this entirely.
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It was my understanding you thought WW was scummy for his inadequasies with understanding the setup. Is that wrong?
What am I deflecting from?
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Hey, I've read MIV ! I don't really remember what you describe from you, but to be fair that was more than a year ago (that I read it).
Eevee is making sense. So it's either a clean 3v3 where Awaclus, SFS and Egork are scum and the people who agree with me are town, but that's probably too clean. Also last time we played this, there was a somewhat similar situation where scum!Eevee was in the "obvtown group", so he's very willing to bus in this setup. Didn't work out too wel for him though.
The problem is that Awaclus feels kinda townie, somewhat. He's certainly getting the townie aproach to this setup right, which I'm not getting from SFS as much.
So... let's lynch Egork ? I'd actually be fine with that, but I feel more confident on SFS right now.
vote : SFS
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It was my understanding you thought WW was scummy for his inadequasies with understanding the setup. Is that wrong?
Yes, that is wrong, as I've explained already. Reread my posts, particularly where I voted.
What am I deflecting from?
A teammate perhaps?
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Actually let's think about what I'll call the mcmc scenario, which is the one where WW is scum.
In that case, Eevee is his partner along with Egork ? Maybe Egork is the right lynch then...
Yeah, actually I like that. vote: Egork
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Actually let's think about what I'll call the mcmc scenario, which is the one where WW is scum.
In that case, Eevee is his partner along with Egork ? Maybe Egork is the right lynch then...
Yeah, actually I like that. vote: Egork
Huh? Is the idea here that EgorK is a teammate in either scenario (me scum or me not scum), and therefore the best vote?
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Actually let's think about what I'll call the mcmc scenario, which is the one where WW is scum.
In that case, Eevee is his partner along with Egork ? Maybe Egork is the right lynch then...
Yeah, actually I like that. vote: Egork
Huh? Is the idea here that EgorK is a teammate in either scenario (me scum or me not scum), and therefore the best vote?
Correct.
Maybe excessive PoE for how far we are in the game, but I like it.
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I find it a little unconvincing since I know the scum!me scenario to be false.
Also just doesn't feel right.. almost like a veiled attempt to lynch a lurker.
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I wouldn't call it veiled, but I'm not trying to lynch him because he's lurking, rathr because he makes sense both as SFS's partner (the most likely) and your partner (the edge case).
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I wouldn't call it veiled, but I'm not trying to lynch him because he's lurking, rathr because he makes sense both as SFS's partner (the most likely) and your partner (the edge case).
Sure, that makes sense (from town!you perspective), but the scenario "Hmm.. EgorK is an easy mislynch target because he's a lurker, but it's a bit too obvious if we go after a lurker here, so let's get a better reason." also makes sense.
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I wouldn't call it veiled, but I'm not trying to lynch him because he's lurking, rathr because he makes sense both as SFS's partner (the most likely) and your partner (the edge case).
Sure, that makes sense (from town!you perspective), but the scenario "Hmm.. EgorK is an easy mislynch target because he's a lurker, but it's a bit too obvious if we go after a lurker here, so let's get a better reason." also makes sense.
Yep, can't help that though.
What do yo think of our little 3v3 (well really 3v2?1) ?
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I'm not thinking in terms of teams, and I think that may be a bit of a trap here. Especially with daychat, scum can manipulate this kind of thinking.
I'd rather focus on individual scummy behavior, then look for partnerships when scum flips.
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Hey, I've read MIV ! I don't really remember what you describe from you, but to be fair that was more than a year ago (that I read it).
MIV should have shown you that this is how I scumhunt. It drove some people nuts, but it's how I work. I don't want to say too much else, for fear of blunting my effect.
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Usually I'd agree with you, but this setup really rewards you for loking at scumteams. And of course scum can manipulate things and I'll readily admit that your position is a lot harder than mine, because you're the one who did something that made lines be drawn, which means you have very little to go on since all you see is people reacting to you (well SFS has been scummy too, but not as much as you've been townie).
I am acknowledging the possibility of scum manipulation completely. I'm not particularly convinced Eevee is scum, and it is evenpossible that the Egork lynch is wrong because the scumteam if SFS/Awaclus/Eevee... but I actually think Awaclus has been townie, so I'm not super worried about that one.
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The "you" on top was adressed to WW.
@SFS : I don't remember you driving people crazy in MIV, I might take a look at it later tonight.
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I'm not thinking in terms of teams, and I think that may be a bit of a trap here. Especially with daychat, scum can manipulate this kind of thinking.
I'd rather focus on individual scummy behavior, then look for partnerships when scum flips.
And that is what I'm doing, with the limited data available so far. I could be wrong. I often am in these games, though I never took it seriously enough to keep stats.
Teproc, you are my towniest read. Do you think WW is town? What about Awaclus and Eevee?
Also, I generally espouse the philosophy of lynch all lurkers, but I never actually saw it ever happen (that I can remember), so I gave up putting it in every other post in a game. I'm certainly open to lynching someone that isn't very active.
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What makes you think I'm town SFS ?
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Never mind, you mostly answered while I was typing.
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What makes you think I'm town SFS ?
Mostly because of your content. The "advice" on the 3 of 5 thing helped me a lot. Maybe that's why WW's comments about not knowing the setup seemed weird.
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Though again, Eevee, the setup thing is NOT why I'm voting for WW.
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Though again, Eevee, the setup thing is NOT why I'm voting for WW.
Aren't you voting for him because you think he faked the setup thing to appear townie ?
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Eevee, what's your read on Awaclus and Teproc?
What are your thoughts on lynching Egor for lurking?
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Though again, Eevee, the setup thing is NOT why I'm voting for WW.
Aren't you voting for him because you think he faked the setup thing to appear townie ?
+1 for trolling. You actually made me laugh out loud.
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I'm starting to go a little more town on SfS.
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Though again, Eevee, the setup thing is NOT why I'm voting for WW.
Aren't you voting for him because you think he faked the setup thing to appear townie ?
+1 for trolling. You actually made me laugh out loud.
Huh?
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Though again, Eevee, the setup thing is NOT why I'm voting for WW.
Aren't you voting for him because you think he faked the setup thing to appear townie ?
+1 for trolling. You actually made me laugh out loud.
What ? I'm not trolling, I genuinely thought this was the reason you thought WW was scum. You said his posts (the ones where he got stuff wrong on the setup) were "artifice" right ?
I'm a little confused. Could you explain why you think WW is scum then ?
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Oh, I forgot about the daychat.
Vote: Awaclus
This post feels like it's thematically linked to this one:
"I must be town because if I was scum then I'd know whether or not we chose the ICs."
i.e., constructed townslip.
It feels like you are maneuvering/"working it" a little too hard.
Vote: WW
PPE: And while I'm writing this, you make two references to "point out" that you haven't read the setup.
I don't actually understand this. At first I thought you were saying that I was faking townslips just as I accused Teproc of doing.
Now I don't understand. How does the first quote help me maneuver the point against Teproc?
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Though again, Eevee, the setup thing is NOT why I'm voting for WW.
Aren't you voting for him because you think he faked the setup thing to appear townie ?
+1 for trolling. You actually made me laugh out loud.
Huh?
I'm laughing because I've covered this with Eevee (and with Teproc, so I assume he's trolling). See #90 for why I am voting. (Perhaps Teproc's comments in #94 somehow linked my vote to the concept of reading setups.) See #107 for my clarification to Teproc, when he obliquely brought this up. See #140 for my response to Eevee, specifically to correct this very misimpression (again).
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Let's reiterate : I'm not trolling.
Your response in #107 felt to me like a more elaborate "yes" to my question, so...
Let's look at it.
Then he is clearly not reading the thread either - you posted about the scumhunting odds being good for us, as we are looking for 3 scum in a pool of 5.
So, you think this is constructed and WW is scum ?
I think he is scum because the two posts I quoted in my vote post felt forced enough they rang false to me; the posts since then signify anti-town behavior on the face of them. Anti-town behavior is not necessarily indicative of scum, but his nonchalance feels controlled/contrived.
So his posts feel contrived to you. Isn't that what I just said ?
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Though again, Eevee, the setup thing is NOT why I'm voting for WW.
Aren't you voting for him because you think he faked the setup thing to appear townie ?
+1 for trolling. You actually made me laugh out loud.
What ? I'm not trolling, I genuinely thought this was the reason you thought WW was scum. You said his posts (the ones where he got stuff wrong on the setup) were "artifice" right ?
I'm a little confused. Could you explain why you think WW is scum then ?
Ah, I see the problem. Ok, this post, and WW's immediately afterward, are the key in the lock. Sorry guys, I completely understand what is throwing you. Let's try again, in no particular order:
1) The "artifice" I refer to is in the tone (?)/delivery(?) of the two posts I linked in #90, not the content. I have no objection to him not knowing how ICs were selected, as that was not clear in the OP for the game (and someone even posted about it not being clear in that post). THe combination of those two posts in relatively quick succession stood out. The first one struck me, the second one just raise red flags, but IN COMBINATION. In a vacuum, either by itself would maybe not stand out. And it's thin, but it' s there for me.
2) My objection to him not knowing the setup (and boy I do have one) is that he DIDNT KNOW HOW MANY SCUM THERE WERE. That's a pretty important detail, don't you think? Who doesn't care how many scum there are? Scum.
So the posts cause me to vote, and everything after tells me I'm right.
2)
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Uhhh.... what?
You believe that I didn't know how many scum there are and STILL think that I'm scum? These are pretty obvious logical contradictions.
You know scum get, like, a QT and can talk to each other, right?
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Ah, I see the problem. Ok, this post, and WW's immediately afterward, are the key in the lock. Sorry guys, I completely understand what is throwing you. Let's try again, in no particular order:
1) The "artifice" I refer to is in the tone (?)/delivery(?) of the two posts I linked in #90, not the content. I have no objection to him not knowing how ICs were selected, as that was not clear in the OP for the game (and someone even posted about it not being clear in that post). THe combination of those two posts in relatively quick succession stood out. The first one struck me, the second one just raise red flags, but IN COMBINATION. In a vacuum, either by itself would maybe not stand out. And it's thin, but it' s there for me.
Right, ok, that's more or less what I was saying. I disagree, but fine.
2) My objection to him not knowing the setup (and boy I do have one) is that he DIDNT KNOW HOW MANY SCUM THERE WERE. That's a pretty important detail, don't you think? Who doesn't care how many scum there are? Scum.
Wait, what ? Your argument is that scum is more likely to genuinely be mistaken on how many scum there are in the game ?
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Usually I'd agree with you, but this setup really rewards you for loking at scumteams. And of course scum can manipulate things and I'll readily admit that your position is a lot harder than mine, because you're the one who did something that made lines be drawn, which means you have very little to go on since all you see is people reacting to you (well SFS has been scummy too, but not as much as you've been townie).
I am acknowledging the possibility of scum manipulation completely. I'm not particularly convinced Eevee is scum, and it is evenpossible that the Egork lynch is wrong because the scumteam if SFS/Awaclus/Eevee... but I actually think Awaclus has been townie, so I'm not super worried about that one.
I think the scumteam thing in this setup may be more of an artifact that there are only 5 unconfirmed alignments, so identifying two town reads automatically identifies a scumteam by PoE.
In particular, I think that you and SfS are town now, which puts it at:
EgorK, Eevee, Awaclus.
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Let's reiterate : I'm not trolling.
Your response in #107 felt to me like a more elaborate "yes" to my question, so...
Let's look at it.
Then he is clearly not reading the thread either - you posted about the scumhunting odds being good for us, as we are looking for 3 scum in a pool of 5.
So, you think this is constructed and WW is scum ?
I think he is scum because the two posts I quoted in my vote post felt forced enough they rang false to me; the posts since then signify anti-town behavior on the face of them. Anti-town behavior is not necessarily indicative of scum, but his nonchalance feels controlled/contrived.
So his posts feel contrived to you. Isn't that what I just said ?
No, what I interpreted you to say was "hey SFS, aren't you voting for him cause of the setup thing?" where I thought that (from your perspective) "the setup thing" meant one thing, and from my perspective it meant another thing. DId my last post help clarify this for everyone? If not, I can try again.
The progession is this: He got on my radar. Then he starts responding (which is what I wanted), and the inconsistencies in his responses made his radar blip get brighter and brighter.
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Uhhh.... what?
You believe that I didn't know how many scum there are and STILL think that I'm scum? These are pretty obvious logical contradictions.
You know scum get, like, a QT and can talk to each other, right?
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Sorry bad edit, stand by.
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Uhhh.... what?
You believe that I didn't know how many scum there are and STILL think that I'm scum? These are pretty obvious logical contradictions.
You know scum get, like, a QT and can talk to each other, right?
Now this I will jump on. Scum wont need to read a setup, they have a QT.
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Uhhh.... what?
You believe that I didn't know how many scum there are and STILL think that I'm scum? These are pretty obvious logical contradictions.
You know scum get, like, a QT and can talk to each other, right?
Now this I will jump on. Scum wont need to read a setup, they have a QT.
But, like... that QT.. the scum team is in it. There would be three people in it.. it's a pretty big difference when you're talking with one other person than when you're talking with two other people. Often the mod even announces who is in the QT.
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Also, the "inconsistency" thing is still not making sense.
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Ah, I see the problem. Ok, this post, and WW's immediately afterward, are the key in the lock. Sorry guys, I completely understand what is throwing you. Let's try again, in no particular order:
1) The "artifice" I refer to is in the tone (?)/delivery(?) of the two posts I linked in #90, not the content. I have no objection to him not knowing how ICs were selected, as that was not clear in the OP for the game (and someone even posted about it not being clear in that post). THe combination of those two posts in relatively quick succession stood out. The first one struck me, the second one just raise red flags, but IN COMBINATION. In a vacuum, either by itself would maybe not stand out. And it's thin, but it' s there for me.
Right, ok, that's more or less what I was saying. I disagree, but fine.
2) My objection to him not knowing the setup (and boy I do have one) is that he DIDNT KNOW HOW MANY SCUM THERE WERE. That's a pretty important detail, don't you think? Who doesn't care how many scum there are? Scum.
Wait, what ? Your argument is that scum is more likely to genuinely be mistaken on how many scum there are in the game ?
No, that is not my argument, though scum professing not to know may or may not score town points. I'm not asserting that he was confused, I'm simply asserting that he professed not to know.
Here's my deal. Be it a blessing or a curse, my mind is wired to spot inconsistencies. 35 years of lab QA does that, and I can't turn it off. He says one thing, then he says something that runs counter to that. I'm simply documenting those, so that people can make of them what they may.
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I wouldn't call it veiled, but I'm not trying to lynch him because he's lurking, rathr because he makes sense both as SFS's partner (the most likely) and your partner (the edge case).
Sure, that makes sense (from town!you perspective), but the scenario "Hmm.. EgorK is an easy mislynch target because he's a lurker, but it's a bit too obvious if we go after a lurker here, so let's get a better reason." also makes sense.
Yep, can't help that though.
What do yo think of our little 3v3 (well really 3v2?1) ?
I think it's contrived and not based on reality. I think WW is towny, don't even know his opinion on me and egork hasn't eben posted. Suggesting a clean 3-3 split seems asinine to me with so little information.
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Who doesn't care how many scum there are? Scum.
This sentence still doesn't make sense to me.
PPE : I disagree. Three people think WW is townie. That's three people agreeing on something, and the question of "are they all town" is a valid one. I did amend it to be 3v2 with Egork being unknown.
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I don't understand how I've been inconsistent, and there's nothing scummy about being inconsistent. In fact it's precisely the opposite---scum aims to be consistent.
What's the point here?
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So, the engine was getting underway, but there was still a threat from the pesky knights. It seems that instead of removing the knights, the F.DSers were just discussing obscure edge cases.
Vote Count 1.02
Witherweaver ( 2 ): Awaclus, SwitchedFromStarcraft
Awaclus ( 1 ): Witherweaver
EgorK ( 1 ): Teproc
Not Voting ( 4 ): Jimmmmm, SwitchedFromStarcraft, Eevee, Hydrad
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day One ends at 10:30 am forum time (1530 UTC), Saturday January 24th.
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Also, the "inconsistency" thing is still not making sense.
I'll work on examples for you, but it may be a while. I'm getting ready to go out to dinner with my wife.
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Oh hey I'm a IC! I can't be considered scummy now!
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Oh hey I'm a IC! I can't be considered scummy now!
Me too! \shoutout Robz
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In the meantime, UNVOTE.
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UNVOTE
OUt of practice.
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Hydrad, what's your take on ICs remaining relatively quiet?
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And what's your take on lynching (relative) lurkers (Egor/Eevee/Awaclus)?
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Hydrad, what's your take on ICs remaining relatively quiet?
Hmm I think ICs can stay a bit out of discussion so scum don't know where our votes sit as much and how to manipulate them. At the same time we are the only people town can rust illy so I don't want to just dissapear
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Eevee, what's your read on Awaclus and Teproc?
What are your thoughts on lynching Egor for lurking?
Awaclus seems on the scummier side for me, mostly because I haven't really agreed with any of his posts. I'm actually feeling townier on Egor just by PoE, the discussion or "town consensus" is not going the way I'd prefer so it feels like scum is driving it.
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Edit: trust really
Stupid phone corrections
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Though again, Eevee, the setup thing is NOT why I'm voting for WW.
Aren't you voting for him because you think he faked the setup thing to appear townie ?
+1 for trolling. You actually made me laugh out loud.
What ? I'm not trolling, I genuinely thought this was the reason you thought WW was scum. You said his posts (the ones where he got stuff wrong on the setup) were "artifice" right ?
I'm a little confused. Could you explain why you think WW is scum then ?
Same for me. Sorry SfS.
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I don't understand how I've been inconsistent, and there's nothing scummy about being inconsistent. In fact it's precisely the opposite---scum aims to be consistent.
What's the point here?
I agree with this. Being in the scum qt gives you a better idea of how many scum there are than reading the setup.
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Hydrad, what's your take on ICs remaining relatively quiet?
Hmm I think ICs can stay a bit out of discussion so scum don't know where our votes sit as much and how to manipulate them. At the same time we are the only people town can rust illy so I don't want to just dissapear
Just keep in mind that scum is talking and coordinating their moves and considering viable lynches at all times.
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Eevee, what's your read on Awaclus and Teproc?
What are your thoughts on lynching Egor for lurking?
Awaclus seems on the scummier side for me, mostly because I haven't really agreed with any of his posts. I'm actually feeling townier on Egor just by PoE, the discussion or "town consensus" is not going the way I'd prefer so it feels like scum is driving it.
I notice you declined to give a read on me here, so should I take that to mean you suspect me for driving the conversation and somehow it not being suitable to you ?
How exactly is the discussion "not going the way you'd prefer" and why aren't you doing anything about it then ?
PPE : Ok, now you are. But I'm still interested in what you thought was wrong before.
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Though again, Eevee, the setup thing is NOT why I'm voting for WW.
Aren't you voting for him because you think he faked the setup thing to appear townie ?
+1 for trolling. You actually made me laugh out loud.
What ? I'm not trolling, I genuinely thought this was the reason you thought WW was scum. You said his posts (the ones where he got stuff wrong on the setup) were "artifice" right ?
I'm a little confused. Could you explain why you think WW is scum then ?
Same for me. Sorry SfS.
I see you went further to this and my post became redundant. As I said, to me his rapid firing all his thoughts and one of them being so clearly wrong (the amount of scum) seems more like a towny inconsistency.
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Though again, Eevee, the setup thing is NOT why I'm voting for WW.
Aren't you voting for him because you think he faked the setup thing to appear townie ?
+1 for trolling. You actually made me laugh out loud.
What ? I'm not trolling, I genuinely thought this was the reason you thought WW was scum. You said his posts (the ones where he got stuff wrong on the setup) were "artifice" right ?
I'm a little confused. Could you explain why you think WW is scum then ?
Same for me. Sorry SfS.
No need to apologize, I clearly have not done a good job expressing my thoughts, and now I feel that I've used up a lot of time where something else may have been more productive.
If you've not noticed, I unvoted. WW's responses to all the subsequent posts have reduced my concerns.
@Hydrad, you did not answer my second question. What's your stance on lynching lurkers, or someone approximating a lurker?
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Though again, Eevee, the setup thing is NOT why I'm voting for WW.
Aren't you voting for him because you think he faked the setup thing to appear townie ?
+1 for trolling. You actually made me laugh out loud.
What ? I'm not trolling, I genuinely thought this was the reason you thought WW was scum. You said his posts (the ones where he got stuff wrong on the setup) were "artifice" right ?
I'm a little confused. Could you explain why you think WW is scum then ?
Same for me. Sorry SfS.
I see you went further to this and my post became redundant. As I said, to me his rapid firing all his thoughts and one of them being so clearly wrong (the amount of scum) seems more like a towny inconsistency.
And he pointed out the same thing, that, in effect only scum has to worry about being consistent. Given my read of Teproc, and my lessening concern of WW, that leaves me with you (Eevee)/Awaclus/Egor as the scum team.
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Well, if I could cop someone, it would be you (Teproc).
You have been the leading voice, but I'm not saying you are creating bad discussion, I just found the whole eevee+WW or the other faction angle a little oversimplified so early. I have a bias for rewarding what I feel is "good" posting with a townier reads, and you are sort of falling into that category here but I also feel your posting has been somewhat safe and could be replicated as scum. Basically it's a style that's great for town if you are one of us, but also makes you unlikely to be the day1 lynch if you are not.
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And what's your take on lynching (relative) lurkers (Egor/Eevee/Awaclus)?
I'm ok with it.
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And what's your take on lynching (relative) lurkers (Egor/Eevee/Awaclus)?
I'm ok with it.
You shouldn't. This is a blitz game. One mislynch, and we're basically dead. Lurking is not enough, especially when it's someone like Egork who constantly lurks regardless of his alignment, and is in a somewhat isolated timezone.
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And what's your take on lynching (relative) lurkers (Egor/Eevee/Awaclus)?
I'm ok with it.
You shouldn't. This is a blitz game. One mislynch, and we're basically dead. Lurking is not enough, especially when it's someone like Egork who constantly lurks regardless of his alignment, and is in a somewhat isolated timezone.
Huh? Lynching Egor for lurking is a coin flip.
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And what's your take on lynching (relative) lurkers (Egor/Eevee/Awaclus)?
I'm ok with it.
You shouldn't. This is a blitz game. One mislynch, and we're basically dead. Lurking is not enough, especially when it's someone like Egork who constantly lurks regardless of his alignment, and is in a somewhat isolated timezone.
Huh? Lynching Egor for lurking is a coin flip.
Not for Hydrad, and the whole point of the game is to try to get better odds than a random lynch...
What I'm saying is lynching people for lurking when it has no bearing on their alignment is obviously bad, and I'm tired of people bringing it up every game.
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Vote Count 1.03
Witherweaver ( 1 ): Awaclus
Awaclus ( 1 ): Witherweaver
EgorK ( 1 ): Teproc
Not Voting ( 5 ): Jimmmmm, SwitchedFromStarcraft, Eevee, Hydrad, SwitchedFromStarcraft
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day One ends at 10:30 am forum time (1530 UTC), Saturday January 24th.
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And what's your take on lynching (relative) lurkers (Egor/Eevee/Awaclus)?
I'm ok with it.
You shouldn't. This is a blitz game. One mislynch, and we're basically dead. Lurking is not enough, especially when it's someone like Egork who constantly lurks regardless of his alignment, and is in a somewhat isolated timezone.
Huh? Lynching Egor for lurking is a coin flip.
Not for Hydrad, and the whole point of the game is to try to get better odds than a random lynch...
What I'm saying is lynching people for lurking when it has no bearing on their alignment is obviously bad, and I'm tired of people bringing it up every game.
Yeah, I got tired of it being discussed and everyone agreeing that it was the way to go and it still never happening. As I recall, it would have been 100% correct in the first several games I played, but that's probably just random luck. I was hoping (two years ago) that it would become policy, and therefore encourage participation.
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Still no Egor huh.
I wonder if he knows that the days are just 24 hours IRL.
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He's on Europe (Russia?) time zone.
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Well, not much going on, so I'm going to bed. I'll check in in the morning, but likely will not be around at the deadline. I have a class from 9 to 10, and would be back right at 10:30.
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Going to bed as well. Hopefully we can get an active tomorrow.
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Vote: SfS
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ah so even if we don't hit lynch amount most votes at deadline dies. interesting.
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I wasn't lurking, I was sleeping.
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Also, I really don't like the fact that EgorK hasn't posted at all. I know it's not a scum tell for him, but it's super annoying.
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Also, I don't think I like a WW lynch for now. unvote
He might not be scum, and even if he is scum, I don't think his scum flip is as informative as someone else's, as I can see a partner narrative for everyone except myself and the ICs. I'd like to lynch Teproc for the information but he doesn't feel as scummy as others (although, I should keep in mind that I was completely tricked by him in the Musical Mafia), so it would be pretty risky and I don't want to take the risk. So that leaves me with Eevee, EgorK and SFS for lynch targets, and I'm pretty much fine with anyone from that group.
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But I think I like Eevee the best. vote: Eevee
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Theory: WW and Egor are scum, and WW thought there were only 2 scum because only one other person was posting in the QT.
Having said that, my biggest scum read is not among the top posters.
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Man 24 hours is fast. we are already supposed to lynch someone in a few hours?
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Any strong reads Hydrad?
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Any strong reads Hydrad?
uhhh strong is a pretty strong word...
I think i'm at awaclus/eevee right now? but its mostly on gut.
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Vote Count 1.4
Eevee ( 1 ): Awaclus
Awaclus ( 1 ): Witherweaver
EgorK ( 1 ): Teproc
SwitchedFromStarcraft (1): Eevee
Not Voting ( 4 ): Jimmmmm, SwitchedFromStarcraft, Hydrad, EgorK
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day One ends at 10:30 am forum time, Saturday January 24th.
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So we have 5 hours ? I really hope Egork posts at some point, this is getting ridiculous.
I won't lynch WW. I would like to lynch Egork or SFS. Maybe Awaclus. I'm not sure about Eevee, but I don't really want to lynch him today.
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I think it would be extremely hard for us to lynch egor if he was scum. Like, I would advocate it if knew it went through, but I fear that would be so much more likely to happen if he was town. Too easy for scum to fake reasons for not participating given he hasn't posted. We should consider including times of availability for blitz sign ups because people missing entire days really screws these up. If egor is town and we don't have his vote, it's much much harder to hit scum.
I don't know how to fight my lynch because no one has given any reasons. Too bad I give you a scummy vibe? I'm town!
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Hi there. Sorry for not posting yet but Friday evening is not like most probable time to post for me
ATM I am looking at Teproc POE post and the thing is it is convincing. So from my perspective it PoEs exactly Teproc. Still need to think about it, but Vote: Teproc for now
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Vote Count 1.05
Awaclus ( 1 ): Witherweaver
Eevee ( 1 ): Awaclus
EgorK ( 1 ): Teproc
SwitchedFromStarcraft ( 1 ): Eevee
Teproc (1): EgorK
Not Voting ( 3 ): Jimmmmm, Hydrad, SwitchedFromStarcraft,
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day One ends at 10:30 am forum time (1530 UTC), Saturday January 24th.
Deadline is in 4 hours
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so Jimmm. Looks like its kinda up to us right now.
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so Jimmm. Looks like its kinda up to us right now.
How do you feel about Awaclus?
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so Jimmm. Looks like its kinda up to us right now.
How do you feel about Awaclus?
Hes one of the ones I was thinking of lynching. So ya I'm ok with him.
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Why me?
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Vote Count 1.06
Awaclus ( 1 ): Witherweaver
Eevee ( 1 ): Awaclus
EgorK ( 1 ): Teproc
SwitchedFromStarcraft ( 1 ): Eevee
Teproc (1): EgorK
Not Voting ( 3 ): Jimmmmm, Hydrad, SwitchedFromStarcraft,
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day One ends at 10:30 am forum time (1530 UTC), Saturday January 24th.
Deadline is in 1 hour 45 minutes, so get voting.
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THE VOTECOUNT IN POST 228 SHOULD BE NUMBERED 1.6 OR 1.06, BUT NOT 1.03.
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sorry awaclus. I don't have a good reason but I think your scum.
Vote: Awaclus
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I agree.
Vote: Awaclus
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Well, I could go through and explain my reasoning, but it's nearly deadline and I'm an IC so I don't really have to. :P
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I'm here, at least for a bit.
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And I'm game with vote: awaclus The IC's and WW is my preferred trio of voting with, and Awaclus was my 2nd choice after SfS anyways. Hopefully this hits scum!
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Well my POE pool is Egor/Eevee/Awaclus, so that works for me as well.
INTENT TO HAMMER.
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anybody online besides me and Jim?
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Vote Count 1.07
Awaclus ( 4 ): Witherweaver, Hydrad, Jimmmmm, Eevee (L-1)
Eevee ( 1 ): Awaclus
EgorK ( 1 ): Teproc
Teproc (1): EgorK
Not Voting ( 1 ): SwitchedFromStarcraft
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day One ends at 10:30 am forum time (1530 UTC), Saturday January 24th.
Deadline is in 16 minutes
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Here
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Eevee's last post looked scummy
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Yeah, it kinda did.
Any point in me waiting the last 10 minutes?
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No
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Vote: Awaclus
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I'll be back in a few hours. I'll do a reread then.
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And so the engine was coming together, but with many disagreements. "Is it better to get the quarry first or the trasher?" they debated at length. In the back of their minds, they also knew that the Knights were still present to sabotage their engine, although they could not agree on who these villains were. At long last, a majority decided that Awaclus was a Knight, and removed him from the perfect engine.
Final Vote Count 1.07
Awaclus ( 5 ): Witherweaver, Hydrad, Jimmmmm, Eevee, SwitchedFromStarcraft
Eevee ( 1 ): Awaclus
EgorK ( 1 ): Teproc
Teproc (1): EgorK
Not Voting ( 0 ):
With 8 alive it took 5 to lynch.
Awaclus has been lynched. He was Sir Bailey, a Knight.
Mafia may submit a vengekill via Mafia QT.
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The thread is still unlocked.
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Oh, neato.
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Actually we should wait to post until someone dies, right?
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Good work team.
See you around Hydrad.
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Em, I'm really sorry, I could have sworn deadline was at 5PM for me, which was an hour too late.
I see we've lynched scum though, so great, I'll catch up now.
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Ok not much actually.
Still think things are as simple as they look and we should lynch SFS or Egork. SFS's hammer doesn't particularly give him cred in my eyes, since Awaclus would likely have been lynched by virtue of being the biggest wagon at deadline.
Obviously I get that I'm now a big suspect... not sure what I have to say about it, I legitimately thought the deadline was an hour later, got caught up getting crushed at Le Havre (in Le Havre too, for style points). Awaclus was in my lynch pool, though I would have gone for SFS or Egork above him. His flip doesn't change things tremendously for me except that it makes Eevee townier, as his vote was pretty pivotal.
I'm very confident that even if you mislynch me, this should be in the bag by lynching one of {SFS, Egork}. Now we should look at who fits with the most conspiracy theories between the two and we'll be set.
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But, there appears to have been another casualty of the Sir Bailey lynch. The Knights were angered by Sir Bailey's death, and responded by killing an engine component. It took a bit of time to confirm the identity of the deceased, but here it is:
Jimmmmm has been killed. He was Horn of Plenty, an Innocent Child
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Vote Count 2.00
Not Voting ( 6 ): Teproc, EgorK, SwitchedFromStarcraft, Witherweaver, Hydrad, Eevee,
With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day One ends at 11:30 am forum time (1630 UTC), Sunday January 25th.
NOTE:THIS IS ONE HOUR LATER THAN DAY ONE ENDED!!
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In case it wasn't clear, the thread is unlocked.
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Well, hooray! And kudos to IC's, well played.
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WW I would say is still the towniest, although he kind of just left his vote on awaclus, it's still townier than those who didn't participate. SfS vote is pretty null to
me as the lynch was happening anyways.
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WW I would say is still the towniest, although he kind of just left his vote on awaclus, it's still townier than those who didn't participate. SfS vote is pretty null to
me as the lynch was happening anyways.
Agreed.
Add to that the fact that Eevee's vote looks very good as he could have made a competing wagon out of me or Awaclus, and this seems clear cut to me, we win evne if I'm lynched.
There's always the possibility that Eevee bussed, as he did the last time, but I doubt it. It didn't work out so well there, and even here if I'm lynched then there's a 50/50 chance town still wins if we choose right between Egork and SFS.
Then there's conspiracy theories where WW is scum, in which case we have to figure out who out of SFS and Egork is more likely to be his partner. I would say Egork because WW's interactions with SFS don't look partner-y to me, so I'm still in favor of an Egork lynch here.
vote : Egork
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SfS's treatment of me felt like he didn't know my alignment. It's generally hard to fake reversals, because when you do they tend to feel constructed. Like in Death Note, Teproc going from certain I'm scum to certain I'm town was a good indication that he was town.
It's not as clear with SfS here, but he's a town read for me. Teproc is nullish. Eevee and Egork both seem scummy. I'd do either today.
Vote: EgorK
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SfS's treatment of me felt like he didn't know my alignment. It's generally hard to fake reversals, because when you do they tend to feel constructed. Like in Death Note, Teproc going from certain I'm scum to certain I'm town was a good indication that he was town.
It's not as clear with SfS here, but he's a town read for me. Teproc is nullish. Eevee and Egork both seem scummy. I'd do either today.
Vote: EgorK
I didn't feel his reversal was that organic though, there was pressure for him to flip, especially if he was seeing a town front form against him.
What do you think about Eevee's place on the wagon ?
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WW being scum doesn't require a conspiracy theory, although he is my top toen read, especially after being the first to suspect me today. (Although scum hates IC's, I feel they hate going against the flow and risking losing today more).
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Yeah, that's a good point, which is why I said it's not as clear in this case.
Eevee's post where he voted for Awaclus felt scummy. Eevee didn't even need to vote, because as someone (Hydrad I think) pointed out, largest vote gets lynched, but it's like he still felt the pressure to get on the wagon.
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Yeah, that's a good point, which is why I said it's not as clear in this case.
Eevee's post where he voted for Awaclus felt scummy. Eevee didn't even need to vote, because as someone (Hydrad I think) pointed out, largest vote gets lynched, but it's like he still felt the pressure to get on the wagon.
This was in response to Teproc's above post, by the way.
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Yeah, that's a good point, which is why I said it's not as clear in this case.
Eevee's post where he voted for Awaclus felt scummy. Eevee didn't even need to vote, because as someone (Hydrad I think) pointed out, largest vote gets lynched, but it's like he still felt the pressure to get on the wagon.
Because as I explained, I wanted the lynch to happen? Pretty sure I had even said I suspect awaclus.
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Scum flipped. Which means we have interactions to analyze. I'll try to do it
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Jimmmm nooo. You were my one friend!
WW/Eevee are towny to me now.
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So. Basically he got on WW early, then said that Teproc and Eevee are scum because they defended WW. Next day (astronomical day I mean) he just unvotes
There are 1 or 2 scum between WW, Teproc and Eevee. Solely based on intractions with Awaclus WW seems most scummy. Also scum can only really bus here only before first one is dead. Ah, good for me. Vote: WW
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Vote Count 2.01
EgorK ( 2 ): Teproc, Witherweaver
Witherweaver ( 1 ): EgorK
Not Voting ( 3 ): SwitchedFromStarcraft, Hydrad, Eevee,
With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day Two ends at 11:30 am forum time (1630 UTC), Sunday January 25th.
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Huh. Interesting choice.
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Like, really weird.
Why got after WW when multiple people, including the IC, expressed town reads on him ?
This doesn't fit. unvote for now.
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Feels a bit staged. Teproc/Egork is a possibility.
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Feels a bit staged. Teproc/Egork is a possibility.
I could see this. I could really see this.
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Vote: teproc because he has no votes. Willing to do either Hydrad prefers.
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Whatever, I'm not going to ignore the fact that Egork, if he's scum, chose the hardest mislynch he possibly could have here.
Let's reread.
Then he is clearly not reading the thread either - you posted about the scumhunting odds being good for us, as we are looking for 3 scum in a pool of 5.
So, you think this is constructed and WW is scum ?
The suggestion that you and WW are both scum doesn't sound that ridiculous to me.
So, this probably makes WW look better ? Not super strong
SFS could be scum too. Eevee and EgorK have been mostly lurking so it's hard to say anything about them yet.
This almost certainly means there is one scum in {Eevee, Egork}. Lynch both, win ?
And it's nightless.
And I don't think this is the same as the blitz one we did last time. That had three scum, right?
This is so weird it feels towny. WW top town read at this point.
So you're the third scum!
This points towards Eevee to me. It certainly points towards there being at least on scum among {Teproc, WW, Eevee}.
Obviously we shouldn't be making hasty decisions before everyone has had a chance to post, though. If EgorK also defends WW, I'm going to be super confused though.
Giving cues to his partner ? Actually there's daychat, so this is probably null.
And then there are SFS's ramblings, which read townie to me now, because they really have no point beside maybe defending himself, but he was never under pressure... I think scum tends to have more of a clear objective which each of their posts.
I'm not sure. Eevee has his position on wagon, that looks good. Yeah, maybe Egork's just no following the game enough to realize WW's not a very realistic lynch ?
I'm fine with lynching either Eevee or Egork I think. I really think it's almost guaranteed that there is scm there, I don't see SFS/WW/Awaclus as a possible scumteam.
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I think I might be between... SfS/teproc now?
egork seems scummy but I dunno something doesn't feel right. but we only get one chance to be wrong in this game.
Jimmm! Come back!!!
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Vote Count 2.02
EgorK ( 1 ): Witherweaver
Teproc ( 1 ): Eevee
Witherweaver ( 1 ): EgorK
Not Voting ( 3 ): SwitchedFromStarcraft, Hydrad, Teproc
With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day Two ends at 11:30 am forum time (1630 UTC), Sunday January 25th.
This is in 4.5 hours time.
Vote Count 2.01 said the wrong end time, Day 2 ends at 11:30am forum time, NOT 11am forum time like Vote Count 2.01 said Sorry about that, I've edited it now.
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I think I might be between... SfS/teproc now?
Please don't. I understand how I make sense as Awaclus' partner, and I guess SFS does to an extent, but I feel pretty confident that SFS is town (see : WW's argument), so that particular set of lynches almost definitely loses the game.
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Nothing is happening, awesome.
vote: Egork.
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Vote Count 2.03
EgorK ( 2 ): Witherweaver, Teproc
Teproc ( 1 ): Eevee
Witherweaver ( 1 ): EgorK
Not Voting ( 2 ): SwitchedFromStarcraft, Hydrad
With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day One ends at 11:30 am forum time (1630 UTC), Sunday January 25th. This is 2 hours, 20 minutes from now.
Ties will be broken randomly using random.org.
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I guess I should vote.
hmmmmmmmmmm
fine even though i feel like scum might be tricking me into the egork vote I'm still going to go with
Vote: egork
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Vote Count 2.04
EgorK ( 3 ): Witherweaver, Teproc, Hydrad (L-1)
Teproc ( 1 ): Eevee
Witherweaver ( 1 ): EgorK
Not Voting ( 1 ): SwitchedFromStarcraft
With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day One ends at 11:30 am forum time (1630 UTC), Sunday January 25th. This is just over 1 hour from now.
Ties will be broken randomly using random.org.
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Wow these deadlines come up quickly. I'm good with Egor.
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Teproc feels more town with that string of posts, which puts it at Egor/Eevee by PoE. I don't think there's anything unreasonable about that.
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woke up and reading now!
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And I wildly prefer teproc. His latest string of posts feels like scum trying to sway the town so they don't lose, so I'm losing confidence in egork.
Anyone else around to vote?
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And I wildly prefer teproc. His latest string of posts feels like scum trying to sway the town so they don't lose, so I'm losing confidence in egork.
Anyone else around to vote?
Interesting.. but who would Teproc's partner be?
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And I wildly prefer teproc. His latest string of posts feels like scum trying to sway the town so they don't lose, so I'm losing confidence in egork.
Anyone else around to vote?
Interesting.. but who would Teproc's partner be?
That's problematic because I really liked egork+him, they are the two individually scummiest players, but it just doesn't add up anymore with teproc's pushing towards him now, which makes me think only one of them is scum (and teproc going for the easiest mislynch makes most sense to me). I could see either of you as their partner (has to be, right?), but I'd just lynch teproc then egor.
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Vote Count 2.05
EgorK ( 3 ): Witherweaver, Teproc, Hydrad
Teproc ( 1 ): Eevee
Witherweaver ( 1 ): EgorK
Not Voting ( 1 ): SwitchedFromStarcraft
With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day One ends at 11:30 am forum time (1630 UTC), Sunday January 25th. This is 13 minutes from now.
Ties will be broken randomly using random.org.
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And I wildly prefer teproc. His latest string of posts feels like scum trying to sway the town so they don't lose, so I'm losing confidence in egork.
Anyone else around to vote?
Interesting.. but who would Teproc's partner be?
That's problematic because I really liked egork+him, they are the two individually scummiest players, but it just doesn't add up anymore with teproc's pushing towards him now, which makes me think only one of them is scum (and teproc going for the easiest mislynch makes most sense to me). I could see either of you as their partner (has to be, right?), but I'd just lynch teproc then egor.
I mean, there's that other dude in this game.
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1 minute!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Until Day 2 ends!
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Day 2 has ended!
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The people of F.DS were continuing to build their engine, knowing that the removal of a 2nd Knight would allow their Engine to be completed perfectly. A minority of the remaining F.DSers decided on their lynch, which if successful would leave them in peace to discuss the multiple edge cases needed to build a perfect engine.
Final Vote Count 2.06
EgorK ( 3 ): Witherweaver, Teproc, Hydrad
Teproc ( 1 ): Eevee
Witherweaver ( 1 ): EgorK
Not Voting ( 1 ): SwitchedFromStarcraft
With 6 alive it took 4 to lynch.
This was not acheived, so by most votes rule:
EgorK has been lynched. He was Dame Anna, a Knight.
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TOWN WIN FLAWLESSLY!! (as 2 mafia goons have been killed)
The knights had been removed, and Dominion could once again me fun. Now the only question was which components should be next added to their engine. This debate could still go on for a long time, but they knew that their perfect engine would one day be constructed, and free from the destruction of the Knights.
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Well done, town.
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Oh, hey, cool. I forgot about white flag.
Who was the third Mafia?
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Is two IC's to overpowered for town here?
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I'm the third. Post 179 was interesting.
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I'm the third. Post 179 was interesting.
Ah, well, well done.
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Is two IC's to overpowered for town here?
I dont think this game will answer that question, though I'm obviously no expert.
With the "IC's dont talk", and Egor, Awa, and Eevee posting little to none on day one, I felt like it was a 3 person game.
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Mafia QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/ifVCPXHQ5yGp
Mod QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/TbZyfivtjDmcy
Spectator QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/Ht2pAFbtavJ
Who was the third Mafia?
SwitchedFromStarcraft.
Is two IC's to overpowered for town here?
Possibly, I just took the standard setup from Mafiascum. I think once Mafia lost 1 on Day 1, I couldn't see them winning. But I'm honestly unsure.
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Yeah, the game is won or lost on day 1. It so happens that town has won, what, the last 5 occurences of this setup ? But we've talked about it before, and it's difficult not to tip the scale the other way, and the games still generally feel close.
This one was strange in that it really wasn't active. I'm also at fault in that, maybe doing in over the week-end wasn't great, I know that was a big reaosn I wasn't as active as usual, I think we've done the previous ones earlier in the week generally.
Also, my early 3v3 was correct :).
I played very badly though. If WW wasn't as good at reading me, I could very easily have been mislynched. I could feel that I was playing scummier than usual, but I couldn't exactly tell what I was doing wrong.
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I could feel that I was playing scummier than usual, but I couldn't exactly tell what I was doing wrong.
I felt like I was playing townier than usual (for scum anyway - I think I've only been scum one other time), but I know exactly what I was doing wrong.
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By the way Joseph, you have to name a MVP. I'd suggest WW, but it's up to you as the mod.
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By the way Joseph, you have to name a MVP. I'd suggest WW, but it's up to you as the mod.
I thought I'd already posted MVP, apparently not. So:
MVP: Witherweaver
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Yay, thanks!
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that was quick.
I almost signed up for this, but I don't like blitz. I do like the pink mod color though.
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Too bad I didn't fake that townslip, though. That would have been epic. I legitimately read over the setup and came away with "two scum, two ICs, this is different than last time.". Even though that made no sense.
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Too bad I didn't fake that townslip, though. That would have been epic. I legitimately read over the setup and came away with "two scum, two ICs, this is different than last time.". Even though that made no sense.
The thing that really make it work was that not only did you say that, you ALSO forgot about daychat. I thought if you had been scum, you would have thought it was too over-the top and only done one of the two.
The bigger the lie... well in this case it wasn't, but had it been, it would have been glorious.
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Too bad I didn't fake that townslip, though. That would have been epic. I legitimately read over the setup and came away with "two scum, two ICs, this is different than last time.". Even though that made no sense.
Reading setups correctly is a scum tell.
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Too bad I didn't fake that townslip, though. That would have been epic. I legitimately read over the setup and came away with "two scum, two ICs, this is different than last time.". Even though that made no sense.
Reading setups correctly is a scum tell.
Exactly
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Just looked, apparently this is the 8th consecutive town win on Blitz games, and the 5th consecutive town win on this setup.
I was thinking of running this again some point, here are some possible changes I was thinking about:
(1). Fix the start time (i.e. say D1 starts at 10am on Monday, not whenever people have replied like i did here- seems like there wasn't much activity right at the start, because no-one knew when it was starting)
(2). Activity was lower than I thought, so I'll probably try it on weekdays instead.
(3). Maybe Day 1 should be longer (36hrs perhaps?)
(4). I should have set a time limit (30 minutes or an hour) on the vengekill, as theoretically scum could have taken indefinitely long to make the kill.
(5). Would only 1 IC make the setup more balanced? I'm not sure if it sways it too much to scum.
Thoughts on any of these ideas would be helpful.
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I could feel that I was playing scummier than usual, but I couldn't exactly tell what I was doing wrong.
I felt like I was playing townier than usual (for scum anyway - I think I've only been scum one other time), but I know exactly what I was doing wrong.
I agree. I thought you were town for sure.
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I've run a few variations on this, none struck me as better than the original.
When we first started running it, scum was more successful. It's all about getting that mislynch on D1.
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Maybe scum overcoordinates with Daychat? I dunno.. I'm not sure why, but Awaclus' vote on me felt off.. like.. SfS was pushing me but not voting, and Awaclus actually votes.. felt weird. In retrospect, I should have realized this when I was assigning SfS a town read.
Though, this wasn't talked about in QT, so maybe it's not about Daychat.
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I want to say sorry to my partners. I had not anticipated that this game would be conducted over week end, and my nasty flu certanly had not helped
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Well done Town! :)
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I vote to never being a IC again. To much pressure!
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Though, this wasn't talked about in QT, so maybe it's not about Daychat.
The two times I've been scum, I've found the daychat to be pretty much useless.
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I'm thinking of running another Blitz game in a couple of weeks, during the week (as weekend seemed like a bad time). Still deciding on the setup, between:
(a). This setup
(b). A small modification of this setup (there have been a few done on here, like Masons not IC)
(c). Another simple setup.