Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[jotheonah]

Talk to me, Joth. Exile faust or no?

I don't think we're going to find scum there. But I could be wrong. Idk, the claim is a bit sus.

I'd still prefer ash if we have the votes.

[WestCoastDidds]

No exile?

[WestCoastDidds]

I’d like to get Spaces take on this

[SpaceAnemone]

Wow, there's lots to catch up on. I have two tabs with half-written cases on faust (one response to faust's reply on my post, one tl;dr for EFHW that still wasn't short enough to get out before my family call. Seems like the game has moved on in between thought.

Unvote for now while I process.

[SpaceAnemone]

How much would tracker!faust trust a null result on someone he tracks? Traitor would be negative under a tracker, because they don't target. So if we have a traitor, he's only clearing me and Didds as far as not being active mafia.

If we're in a recruiting situation, then we know town has at least four PRs: recruiting the traitor gives one extra (over the baseline of two), and mcmc being joat gives another. Do we think scum has a third, and if so that it's a targeting role such that every scum would be expected to take a targetable night action? I'm unconvinced by that, so again, I think tracker!faust shouldn't have very big townreads based on null tracking results.

Does that seem sensible to the rest of you?

[SpaceAnemone]

No exile?

That's a cop-out for town, and essentially just gives scum a second night kill in a row, so let's not do that unless there's no other choice. Even exiling faust, given that we've all been asked to give opinions on him, may be preferable to a no-exile, unless his claim is super-convincing to the rest of you, rather than just looking like the most convenient thing scum!faust has to claim to confuse town.

[WestCoastDidds]

It’s not my preference, but I did t know if anyone else was around

[SpaceAnemone]

Space - I'm having trouble following your case on faust. Could you tl;dr it for me?

Actually coming back to finishing this tl;dr is maybe useful:

Really briefly:
a. The EoD1 push on Mathdude, seconding MiX's call to hammer Mathdude was scummy. Sensible faust ought to have waited and seen what information came out with the claims.
b. He's been pushing a "one scum off-wagon" line that was a major part of his gkrieg case and also justification for pushing Didds. I've been asking why that's necessarily the case, and he has never stated clearly why he thinks scum couldn't all have been on the kind-of-inevitable slow-growing Mathdude wagon.
c. I've asked a bunch of questions directly to him that he's side-stepped asking. He's called at least two of them "rhetorical", and another more direct less-rhetorical-sounding one is hidden in the text he cut out under a "..." in his big long reply to me.

[SpaceAnemone]

Faust, you said that you'd prefer we don't exile either of MiX or Ash.  Is there any reason why that you can share right now?

But also, there is like for sure scum off the mathdude wagon, yes? Scum doesn't just pile all of their resources onto a terrible-looking misexile?

The only unflipped people there are you, gkrieg, Space. So assuming you are town, you should believe that there is scum to find here, and I think you townread Space.

Here's an example of a post from faust in d2 that really seems scummy to me. I totally disagree that there is "for sure scum off the mathdude wagon", and faust hasn't yet made any case for why it "for sure" has to be so. But he's using it to try to push Didds into voting for someone on that wagon.

Compare to this, where early in d3 he uses the same argument again to push the suggestion that now we've had a gkrieg town flip, maybe that necessary off-wagonscum is Didds again, even though in his tracker claim he said that getting a null result on Didds n1 and me n2 made him move his scumreads elsewhere:

faust, your argument that appealed to me yesterday was that it was likely that at least one scum was off the mathdude wagon.  It wasn't gkrieg, and I know it wasn't me.  That leaves Space.

How are you feeling about them?

Looking back at things, I don't quite think Space makes a lot of sense as mcmc's partner. I guess if they're the Traitor the case might be stronger? But I'm not interested in a Space exile today. If we're looking off-wagon, I prefer you.

[SpaceAnemone]

So yeah, it feels like I am still scumreading faust. I think exactly as joth says, we shouldn't believe an E-1 claim that scum would make to try to save their skin.

I don't agree that faust should be taking null tracker results as so non-incriminating to move a scumread, especially since that post I quoted above implies he's happy still to have a scumread on Didds with an identical result.

There's also no mention in the clarifications after his claim of the possibility that a traitor would necessarily also give a "non-incriminating result"... which makes it feel like a fake-claim and not an actual result.

Vote: faust

[WestCoastDidds]

Okay... vote: faust

[SpaceAnemone]

I never actually did one of those scum-to-chum posts:

scummy: faust
in between: Dylan, Didds, EFHW
townie: joth, ash, Space

I thought EFHW looked like the most likely partner for faust, though actually at #413 faust encourages Dylan to vote for EFHW, with the excuse that she was Robz's scumread. Maybe that's clever deliberate distancing, but if we have scum!faust it would at least make me think twice about a scum!EFHW idea.

Dylan is annoyingly disengaged with voting, but his willingness to leave a vote on faust is good. If faust flips scum, Didds's hesitancy to vote here might look scummy, but if he's actually town, then it looks townie for her to be pausing here.

If faust does flip scum, we know we probably don't have any other town PRs, because scum!faust probably wouldn't have been so ready to claim if he thought there was a risk of us having a fourth town PR. OTOH, if he's going down as scum anyway, then trying to get an extra PR to claim is good for them, so perhaps I shouldn't read too much into it. Like, why would the scumteam take joat unless they were also taking other stuff like recruiting and/or daychat as well?

PPE 1: well, that sorts that out then!

[Swowl]

THREAD LOCKED

[Swowl]

Vote Count 3.Final:

faust (4): Ashersky, Dylan32, SpaceAnenome, WestCoastDidds
Ashersky (2): Joth, faust
WCD (1): EFHW
Not Voting (0):

With 7 alive, it took 4 to Exile.
Night 3 starts now and ends on Wednesday, March 17th at 5:50pm Forum Time. Please submit Night Actions within 36 hours.

[Swowl]

"They say they are the tracker!"
   "Anyone would say that to save their own skin!"
"Yeah, let's get rid of them!"

faust has been exiled. They were faust, the Town Tracker.

[Swowl]

"Alright, alright... who isn't here today? One, two.... Six... That is weird."
   "Maybe we found them all?"
"Impossible, faust wasn't one of them and they were still here before we got rid of faust..."
   "Maybe they just decided to stop being mean?"
"Doubt it."
   "Yeah, I guess I was reaching on that one..."
"Alright, well let's get this call started then."

[Swowl]

Vote Count 4.0:

Not Voting (6): WestCoastDidds, EFHW, SpaceAnenome, Joth, Ashersky, Dylan32

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to Exile.
Day 4 starts now and ends Wednesday, March 24th at 5:50pm Forum Time.

THREAD UNLOCKED!

[EFHW]

I'm mad that I missed deadline. I would have fought against a faust exile, having just finished a reread. We need something for everyone to respond to. How about "who is the scummiest person on the faust wagon?"

[ashersky]

No death means no kill or traitor shot, yes?

I think mafia was off-wagon.

[WestCoastDidds]

No death means no kill or traitor shot, yes?

I think mafia was off-wagon.

So, Joth or EFHW?

[ashersky]

No death means no kill or traitor shot, yes?

I think mafia was off-wagon.

So, Joth or EFHW?

"Or"..."and"...take your pick.

[ashersky]

I'm fairly certain I will only vote for those two or myself today.

[jotheonah]

Ah, the delayed OMGUS.

And is there any actual reasoning behind this wagon analysis? After all, wagon analysis has served us so well so far this game.

I still think it’s ash. This hasn’t changed.

[jotheonah]

I'm fairly certain I will only vote for those two or myself today.

Voting for yourself would be swell.

[EFHW]

No death means no kill or traitor shot, yes?

I think mafia was off-wagon.

Why off wagon?