Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[iguanaiguana]

Skimmed.

VTs are really going at each other's throats, not unexpected.

I say e, Haddock & me keep talking until at least 2/3 of us agree on who to lynch. Scum has too much power among the VTs right now and lots and lots of WIFOM in there.

Sorry my result is not better. I shared it today because I figure I am dying tonight no matter what I do. Maybe there is a doctor in Haddock/e to save me and give me another chance to find the JoAT.

[Witherweaver]

Alright.  Well still good as it let's the town in {Ash, Silver, Awaclus} know the scum team, modulo whatever chance he thinks I could be the Goon.  And gives the PRs the same PoE that I have.   

[Awaclus]

Alright.  Well still good as it let's the town in {Ash, Silver, Awaclus} know the scum team, modulo whatever chance he thinks I could be the Goon.  And gives the PRs the same PoE that I have.

Well, the chance that you could be the Goon is still half of the chance that you could be scum. But I think that we should lynch out of ash and silver today anyway because if one of them flips Goon, then I think we just win.

[Haddock]

OK, so let's limit ourselves to ash and SS for now then?
I think WW and Awa both have good things going for them.

II, thanks for you claim, as promised we won't be lynching today.

e, you're still leaning towards scum!ash?

[ashersky]

OK, so let's limit ourselves to ash and SS for now then?
I think WW and Awa both have good things going for them.

II, thanks for you claim, as promised we won't be lynching today.

e, you're still leaning towards scum!ash?

Why would we be lynching iguana anyway?  PRs = ICs, remember?

[Haddock]

No, he was saying he doesn't want any lynches happening before he gets back on Sunday.  I was confirming that that's the plan.

[ashersky]

No, he was saying he doesn't want any lynches happening before he gets back on Sunday.  I was confirming that that's the plan.

Oh, gotcha.

[Haddock]

Not going to full claim, but will say now I think: my result is essentially neutral with regards to ash's alignment.

I think based on his behaviour today I'd be OK lynching ash.

[ashersky]

Not going to full claim, but will say now I think: my result is essentially neutral with regards to ash's alignment.

I think based on his behaviour today I'd be OK lynching ash.

What behavior is that, exactly?

[ashersky]

We really have no conclusive results?

WW still has a fair chance of being scum.  Haddock says his result on me is useless.

I will say, seems to me to make more sense to lynch from the non-investigated.

[ashersky]

Also, 2.7 mentioned earlier he thought it was interesting that Hydrad was killed.

Why's that?

[Haddock]

Not going to full claim, but will say now I think: my result is essentially neutral with regards to ash's alignment.

I think based on his behaviour today I'd be OK lynching ash.

What behavior is that, exactly?

Just being-generally-scummier than SS (the best current alternative).
Not liking it.

[ashersky]

Not going to full claim, but will say now I think: my result is essentially neutral with regards to ash's alignment.

I think based on his behaviour today I'd be OK lynching ash.

What behavior is that, exactly?

Just being-generally-scummier than SS (the best current alternative).
Not liking it.

Is it possible for me to be less scummy than SS in any given moment in mafia time?  Serious question.

I honestly think that if both SS and I posted "The road to the village passes through a forest." in a mafia game as our first post, then the majority of players were asked to rank all the players in the game from scummy to towny, SS would be ranked townier on the majority of lists, even though we both only posted once and the same text.

I guess my point is you shouldn't judge me compared to SS.  You should judge me compared to the previous mes.

[Haddock]

I honestly think that if both SS and I posted "The road to the village passes through a forest." in a mafia game as our first post, then the majority of players were asked to rank all the players in the game from scummy to towny, SS would be ranked townier on the majority of lists, even though we both only posted once and the same text.

I guess my point is you shouldn't judge me compared to SS.  You should judge me compared to the previous mes.

I'll thank you not to paint me with the same biases that admittedly I think some people do have. 

I'm judging you based on what I've seen from you across this whole game.  I think you're the scummiest here.

[Haddock]

Guys, is, like, anyone here besides me and ash?

[2.71828.....]

Guys, is, like, anyone here besides me and ash?

no.  Wait, if I post that means yes.  so yes.  rereading now.

[iguanaiguana]

I'd like to hear who e thinks we should lynch.

[Haddock]

I don't have anything to claim as far as night actions go.

I am leaning toward ash being scum, but will need to do some rereading

This post seems to indicate ash, though of course he could change his mind on reread.

[2.71828.....]

OK.  recap:

VTs: Awaclus, ss, ashersky, WW

Haddock: Loud _______ - neutral result to Ash's alignment
iguana: Witness Rolecop - targeted WW, either goon or VT
2.7: Insane __________ - Has not claimed, but doesn't have any result to share

ashersky - Ok, the reason I was suspicious about ashersky was the simple fact that he came up with the plan, then pushing Hydrad to shoot, plus the talk that scum both claiming VT isn't that bad.  But then, is Ash likely to add up incorrectly and come up with only half the plan as scum?  Basically (sorry), is Ash going to play better as scum than as town?  That's not really a fair question, and it leads to all sorts of meta issues (like the hypothetical "ash is playing well, he must be scum" (which is a terrible argument)).  But I don't know.  My experience is flavored by Village Mafia where he caught us (scum) so thoroughly well that we had no chance.  But now here, his 'plan' was only halfway there, where a full massclaim gave us 4 ICs (although it could have worked differently....I actually think Ash's partial claim plan and then pushing the massclaim worked very well).  Then the whole Hydrad shooting thing.  He was just wrong about it.  Here is the post with his math:

So basically, we need lynch one scum in three tries, and we win the game. Scum is essentially in the opposite of a triple MyLo situation. They need to get three mislynches through on exactly three players to win the game (or at least get Hydrad to kill one of them for them).

I think you are looking at this wrong.

We have to catch 2 scum in 5 players.  We have two mislynches to burn.  The rest is ancillary to the whole thing.  Literally, the 4 PRs could do nothing and they're still ICs.  Just think of the setup as 4 ICs, 3 VTs, 2 scum.

I laid out how I think powers should play out.  I'm thinking Hydrad shooting is best.  Worst!Hydrad scenario:

D1 mislynch VT
N1 vig VT + NK PR
D2 mislynch VT
N2...Hydrad has 2 VTs to choose from.  He has a 100% chance of killing scum (and himself).
D3 LYLO with 1 vs 2

That's the "worst case" in this.  It basically guarantees scum has to try to kill Hydrad on N1.

This is all assuming none of the VTs are lying town (WW...?).

Sounds good....except it is wrong.

D1 mislynch VT
N1 vig VT + NK PR
D2 mislynch VT
N2...Hydrad has 2 VTs to choose from.  He has a 100% chance of killing scum (and himself). + NK PR
D3 scum wins, 1 vs 1

This is the math that was never corrected (I kind of did at the very end of the day during twilight, but not with time to discuss).  So does scum!Ash push phony math that looks legit?  I mean, this is kind of last-ditch effort type stuff.  Does scum!ash do this and try to trick Hydrad into shooting. 

So that is where my leaning scum!Ash comes from.  (plus the interesting as to why scum kills Hydrad.  Town does not benefit at all from Hydrad shooting)

But I am not sure I want to vote for ashersky.  Still need to go through the other 3 VTs

[Awaclus]

This is the math that was never corrected (I kind of did at the very end of the day during twilight, but not with time to discuss).  So does scum!Ash push phony math that looks legit?  I mean, this is kind of last-ditch effort type stuff.  Does scum!ash do this and try to trick Hydrad into shooting.

I guess it's also a possibility that scum!ash legit thought that it's good for town if Hydrad shoots, and that's why scum NK'd Hydrad.

[2.71828.....]

This is the math that was never corrected (I kind of did at the very end of the day during twilight, but not with time to discuss).  So does scum!Ash push phony math that looks legit?  I mean, this is kind of last-ditch effort type stuff.  Does scum!ash do this and try to trick Hydrad into shooting.

I guess it's also a possibility that scum!ash legit thought that it's good for town if Hydrad shoots, and that's why scum NK'd Hydrad.

yeah, why I thought it was interesting that hydrad died.  In my opinion, scum WANTED Hydrad to shoot.  Because like I mentioned in twilight, the only thing it does is shorten the game.  It takes a day away from town where we can vote on a kill, and puts all the power in hydrad's hands (which is not a bad thing, but I think scum would prefer it that way)

[2.71828.....]

sorry, I have been playing dominion all day and didnt get to rereading anyone else.  I will get it done by the end of the night though

[2.71828.....]

Awaclus:

He has done a good bit of talking, but nothing that would implicate him in anything.  He voted for hydrad, he was off wagon for Joseph.  I could see him as being scum, but there is nothing that compelling to make me think that he is.  I also don't give any extra credit to him for the VT claim.  I remember when I was scum with faust (I think) and we totally botched the fakeclaiming because we didn't really discuss it the night before.  I wanted him to claim, he wanted me to claim, and we ended up claiming sub-optimally.  Anyway, I could see that kind of thing going on.  Awaclus (goon) wanted to claim VT and wanted his partner (PR) to claim some PR, but even when his partner didn't claim PR he still stuck with what he wanted to claim.  I don't know. 

So nothing to make him town, nothing to make him scum.  Totally hedging on Awaclus here.  Good thing I am an IC or that would be scummy.

[2.71828.....]

Witherweaver:

As Ampharos might say, I am getting "teh feelz" about witherweaver.  Like, he is scum.  Again though, same as Awaclus, there is nothing especially implicating about what he has done.  One point against him is being on-wagon for the Joseph lynch.  Some interesting quotes that I pulled:

Ash's plan gives scum a bit of a free ride fake claiming, no?  Even so, I tentatively believe Iguana.

On the other hand, Ash/Iguana would be interesting.  But I suppose not really worth it on the off-chance that there is a real Witness.

Putting a lot of doubt into Iguana's claim early.  Not sure how I like this.  This is part of the reason I am getting those scummy vibes from WW. 

WW also proposes massclaiming first.  He then also puts more doubt into the claims that we currently have:

What do you think about scum using this to safely fake claim something without ever having to prove it?

He also has this quote that basically is a point saying that Joseph is town:

I'm mostly just not sure scum jumps out ahead with an early VT claim.  Possibly he'd think it would get town cred.

But votes Joseph later with almost no explanation.  Although later he explains a reason being that Joseph was pushing for my lynch (I mean, just a little, not really) because he thought I was the first person to propose a massclaim (before I really endorsed that massclaim).

Just nothing that makes me super comfortable with him being town.  But, he has that half-result in his favor.  So that kind of gives him a little bit of leniency and I don't know that I really want to lynch him today.

[2.71828.....]

silverspawn:

yeah, so I am getting lazier as I get these rereads.  Basically, I am looking at WW/silverspawn right now. 

Vote: Awaclus

I'm not so sure. I faked ignorance about a claiming plan in my first scum game and claimed earlier than I needed to.

vote: Joseph

Setting up Joseph for a lynch, then voting him, but off-wagon voting ashersky for the final vote.  I don't know, that is really just circumstantial.  Again, I have the feeling that he is scum, but there is not much real here to vote against him for