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[ragingduckd]

Aha, very interesting. Prosperity 1.8 works, and successfully starts a game where everyone has a standard starting deck. And if I "cheat" the starting deck to instead be 5 Coppers and 5 Estates, then Prosperity 3.20 loads, but Base 1.2 doesn't. So it seems fair to guess that they're validating whether your starting hand is something you could have achieved using zaps, based on the cards you're supposed to start with?

Okay, sweet. We can basically make the levels fair then, though it's more complicated. Zaps can turn Shelters into Duchy or Curse, and Curse to Estate, but can't turn things into Shelters.

Do each side separately. Count the number of treasures.

- If it's 7, make them all Coppers and make the other cards Estates, except leave Shelters alone.
- If it's 6, make them 5 Copper and one Silver, and make non-Shelters Estates.
- If it's 5, make them 3 Copper and two Silver, make non-Shelters Estates.
- If it's not 5-7, leave it alone. Dunno if this is relevant but no need to risk anything here.

If it's obvious where it is in the file, I would also set free zaps to 0, because hey, the idea is to make levels fair and enjoyable, not for you to always have a 2-zap advantage.

We (you) could balance the 5-Estates advantage by giving the opponent Duchy-Estate-Estate; it's potentially more complicated than that, because the opponent might not have a starting Duchy (and you can't zap your opponent up), so I wouldn't worry about it. I guess also sometimes it may give you Curses, and we could keep one and have 4 Estates 1 Curse. Same deal, does not seem worth the effort.

So the idea is to apply changes that the server will allow because the user could zap his way there himself, right?  We're just setting the bar for him instead of making him feel like he's "cheating" by applying zaps.  If so, Salvager can do this, and the code you suggest looks like a good way.

We can't do anything about the 2 free zaps.  Actually, the whole operation is still going to consume the same number of zaps as if the user clicked the cards himself.  Example: I can run Base 1.2 with your code and give myself 3 Silver, 4 Copper, 3 Estate.  After the game, my zap total is reduced by 1 (3 Silvers less the 2 free zaps).

On the bright side, people could use this feature even if they don't have zap stockpiles, since the server doesn't seem to mind if you've used more zaps than you have.  I just gave myself a 7-Silver, 3-Duchy starting deck on Base 1.2 on a test account that has no zaps.

I'm guessing that the server-side zap validation isn't really meant for security, but only for updating how many zaps you have left.  The server code breaks when it can't figure out how you zapped an Estate into a Copper, and the client hangs.  But if the server code successfully determines that you used 12 zaps, it doesn't object to the fact that you only had 4 zaps available.

[yed]

What if you change the zaps property in campaignData?

Code: [Select]

[map_region_6_1: Object, map_region_1_1: Object, map_region_1_2: Object, map_region_1_3: Object, map_region_7_1: Object…]
length: 0
map_region_0_1: Object
epilogue: "Congratulations on completing the tutorial, <name>. Your learnings are complete! Now it's time to take on the rest of the game."
game_1: Object
displayCards: Array[1]
kingdomCards: Array[10]
numPlayers: 2
opponentCards: Array[10]
opponentPlayers: Object
rewards: Array[0]
stars: Array[3]
story: ""
victoryTokens: 0
yourCards: Array[10]
zaps: 2
__proto__: Object
game_2: Object


[theblankman]

We can't do anything about the 2 free zaps.  Actually, the whole operation is still going to consume the same number of zaps as if the user clicked the cards himself.  Example: I can run Base 1.2 with your code and give myself 3 Silver, 4 Copper, 3 Estate.  After the game, my zap total is reduced by 1 (3 Silvers less the 2 free zaps).
...
I'm guessing that the server-side zap validation isn't really meant for security, but only for updating how many zaps you have left.  The server code breaks when it can't figure out how you zapped an Estate into a Copper, and the client hangs.  But if the server code successfully determines that you used 12 zaps, it doesn't object to the fact that you only had 4 zaps available.

So in theory this feature could have two modes: "fair" and "just give me the promos, I wish you'd let me pay with money instead of time"   The latter would just always maximize zap usage, I'm not sure how Goko/MF or Donald X would feel about that though. 

[Donald X.]

We can't do anything about the 2 free zaps.  Actually, the whole operation is still going to consume the same number of zaps as if the user clicked the cards himself.  Example: I can run Base 1.2 with your code and give myself 3 Silver, 4 Copper, 3 Estate.  After the game, my zap total is reduced by 1 (3 Silvers less the 2 free zaps).

On the bright side, people could use this feature even if they don't have zap stockpiles, since the server doesn't seem to mind if you've used more zaps than you have.  I just gave myself a 7-Silver, 3-Duchy starting deck on Base 1.2 on a test account that has no zaps.

I am not sure why you can't edit free zaps after the fact like the hands. It seems like it will just be something like this.zaps = 0 in the same routine that's editing the hands. I mean it's copying the information from campaignData and that's some of the information. The change wouldn't affect how many zaps got eaten by the server-side part, but it would affect how many you could use yourself, which is the point.

I would def. lower free zaps to 0 if possible; again the idea is to make the levels fair/fun, not for me to use two zaps every game because I have them. If the free zaps would have gotten you there but zeroing that variable means it uses up your purchased zaps to make the level fair, I am okay with that, we are making zaps meaningless anyway.

[Donald X.]

So in theory this feature could have two modes: "fair" and "just give me the promos, I wish you'd let me pay with money instead of time"   The latter would just always maximize zap usage, I'm not sure how Goko/MF or Donald X would feel about that though.

I would stick to stuff that isn't antagonistic! Remember they can really hose the mod if they want to. And you can personally buy zaps (with meaningless coins gotten from playing Dominion) and heavily-zap the levels yourself.

They have agreed to fix the adventures, which includes making the levels all fair; so getting there ahead of time isn't unfriendly.

[ragingduckd]

I am not sure why you can't edit free zaps after the fact like the hands. It seems like it will just be something like this.zaps = 0 in the same routine that's editing the hands. I mean it's copying the information from campaignData and that's some of the information. The change wouldn't affect how many zaps got eaten by the server-side part, but it would affect how many you could use yourself, which is the point.

It works as long as you don't have any zaps of your own available.

Example: I have 20 zaps available and I want to apply 3 on Base 1.2 (which is already balanced at 7C/3E each).  The default behavior is that I use the 2 free zaps and 1 of my own.  If the extension sets freeZaps=0, it would look like I had used up 3 of my own zaps and now had 17 left.  But either way, the server calculates that I have 19 zaps left, and that's the number that gets sent to the client when I open the next adventure level.

Of course, Salvager could just ignore how many zaps the server says you have.  For example, it could balance the starting hands and then disable further zapping by just telling the user that he has no free zaps and no zaps of his own.  That would require some explanation, lest a user buy a flask of zaps and then get irate when it looks like he still has no zaps available, but it probably wouldn't be too hard to implement.

Alternatively, Salvager could try to adjust the number of zaps the server says you have.  In the example above, the client goes on to Base 1.3 and the server reports that the user has 19 zaps available.  Salvager could adjust for the two free zaps on Base 1.2 and tell the user than he only has 17 zaps available.  But making that adjustment consistently over multiple sessions could be challenging.

[Donald X.]

It works as long as you don't have any zaps of your own available.

Or if we don't care how many you have! If we are just willing to have this suck up non-free zaps.

Again this system obsoletes zaps. Their only value, in this situation, is to let you make a level easier if you are having trouble winning a fair fight (well some games there are multiple opponents, but even there, it's plenty doable).

Example: I have 20 zaps available and I want to apply 3 on Base 1.2 (which is already balanced at 7C/3E each).  The default behavior is that I use the 2 free zaps and 1 of my own.  If the extension sets freeZaps=0, it would look like I had used up 3 of my own zaps and now had 17 left.  But either way, the server calculates that I have 19 zaps left, and that's the number that gets sent to the client when I open the next adventure level.

Acceptable.

Of course, Salvager could just ignore how many zaps the server says you have.  For example, it could balance the starting hands and then disable further zapping by just telling the user that he has no free zaps and no zaps of his own.  That would require some explanation, lest a user buy a flask of zaps and then get irate when it looks like he still has no zaps available, but it probably wouldn't be too hard to implement.

Yes, ignore, set free zaps to zero. The goal is to maximize the joy of playing these levels (shy of them actually making all of the intended improvements); that joy is maximized by having zero free zaps. Your nonfree zap total is not relevant, those are just fun-sapping things that have no merit beyond letting you deal with being bad at beating a level (in this situation; with no mod they let you have an awful pointless game on your way to grinding to get promos, rather than an unwinnable game). You get as many tries as you need, the bots are not great, eventually you will win that level; and if not you can get some nonfree zaps at that point (for free as it happens, since they just cost playing dominion) and make it easier.

It just does not matter that your supply of hard-earned nonfree zaps goes down, that's the way I see it. Maximize joy.

Alternatively, Salvager could try to adjust the number of zaps the server says you have.  In the example above, the client goes on to Base 1.3 and the server reports that the user has 19 zaps available.  Salvager could adjust for the two free zaps on Base 1.2 and tell the user than he only has 17 zaps available.  But making that adjustment consistently over multiple sessions could be challenging.

I would stick to the lower-effort straightforward zap-wasting fix. We are still hoping that these guys, who looked promising back in January, will somehow get around to fixing the adventures, at which point this will all no longer apply.

If you are worried people will be sad to lose nonfree zaps, you could make this change optional.

[Kirian]

It's a really easy fix, but AdamH wore me out.

Man, where is the out of context thread again?

[theblankman]

So in theory this feature could have two modes: "fair" and "just give me the promos, I wish you'd let me pay with money instead of time"   The latter would just always maximize zap usage, I'm not sure how Goko/MF or Donald X would feel about that though.

I would stick to stuff that isn't antagonistic! Remember they can really hose the mod if they want to. And you can personally buy zaps (with meaningless coins gotten from playing Dominion) and heavily-zap the levels yourself.

Right, I was pointing out that Salvager could "cheat," but just because something is possible doesn't mean we should do it.  More recent posts indicate Salvager can check my available zaps, and as you noted zaps effectively come free with games against other humans, so maybe something like "use all available zaps" is less antagonistic and more reasonable?  That's just automating what I could do by hand. 

Maximize joy.

This is what I'm going for.  Playing the adventures, even after zapping them by hand to make the starting decks even, has so far been a lot less fun for me than playing with other humans.  I doubt that will change because I happen to like chatting with opponents during and after the game, and bots don't talk back.  So my suggestion to heavily auto-zap is just geared toward maximizing my joy by spending as much of my Dominion time as possible playing with other humans. 

You're right that Salvager shouldn't be antagonistic, but other than that I just want to get the adventures out of the way as fast as possible.  For me the best solution would be if the promos were all available to buy.  I'd rather spend money than time on them, but that doesn't seem like it's about to happen. 

[amalloy]

So in theory this feature could have two modes: "fair" and "just give me the promos, I wish you'd let me pay with money instead of time"   The latter would just always maximize zap usage, I'm not sure how Goko/MF or Donald X would feel about that though.

I would stick to stuff that isn't antagonistic! Remember they can really hose the mod if they want to. And you can personally buy zaps (with meaningless coins gotten from playing Dominion) and heavily-zap the levels yourself.

Right, I was pointing out that Salvager could "cheat," but just because something is possible doesn't mean we should do it.  More recent posts indicate Salvager can check my available zaps, and as you noted zaps effectively come free with games against other humans, so maybe something like "use all available zaps" is less antagonistic and more reasonable?  That's just automating what I could do by hand. 

Salvager already has this feature. There's a box you can check that will use all available zaps in each Adventures game.

[Donald X.]

Right, I was pointing out that Salvager could "cheat," but just because something is possible doesn't mean we should do it.  More recent posts indicate Salvager can check my available zaps, and as you noted zaps effectively come free with games against other humans, so maybe something like "use all available zaps" is less antagonistic and more reasonable?  That's just automating what I could do by hand. 

I don't want to use all the zaps I can. I want a fair game of 7 coppers 3 estates on both sides. Where I can't have that I want to approximate it.

This is what I'm going for.  Playing the adventures, even after zapping them by hand to make the starting decks even, has so far been a lot less fun for me than playing with other humans.  I doubt that will change because I happen to like chatting with opponents during and after the game, and bots don't talk back.  So my suggestion to heavily auto-zap is just geared toward maximizing my joy by spending as much of my Dominion time as possible playing with other humans. 

If Making Fun had accomplished amazing things in the months they've had the project, I would at some point suggest having bots say things in the campaigns (yes obv. this would not be having a conversation with a human). I am good at that kind of thing but at this point I am just hoping they do the utterly essential stuff they haven't done.

You're right that Salvager shouldn't be antagonistic, but other than that I just want to get the adventures out of the way as fast as possible.  For me the best solution would be if the promos were all available to buy.  I'd rather spend money than time on them, but that doesn't seem like it's about to happen.

There are people though that want to play the adventures, that enjoy playing against bots and like having the game setup selected to be especially entertaining. And some people like getting introduced to the expansions gradually. So I mean, I would like the adventures to be good for the people that might like them; they don't need to try to be good for the people that will never like them. For the people that will never like them, there should be another way to get the promos, or two other ways, and then so much for that.

[theblankman]

Salvager already has this feature. There's a box you can check that will use all available zaps in each Adventures game.

Well now I feel silly, when did that get there?  Still would rather just spend $5 on the promos (the two available for real money are $1 each and I'm fine with that price).  But thanks for the heads up!

[DStu]

(yes obv. this would not be having a conversation with a human)

'Hi Donald, I'm LadyEliza.  Tell me more about "glhf"'

[ragingduckd]

Salvager already has this feature. There's a box you can check that will use all available zaps in each Adventures game.

Well now I feel silly, when did that get there?  Still would rather just spend $5 on the promos (the two available for real money are $1 each and I'm fine with that price).  But thanks for the heads up!

To clarify, the "Auto-Zap" feature doesn't do anything you couldn't do yourself.  That is, it doesn't "steal" zaps.  It only applies the zaps you already have.  All it does is save you the clicking.  It's under the Misc. tab of the User Settings.

[SirD]

I dont know if that has already been reported, but the salvager often hangs (well I am using Chrome heavily with 30 tabs or so).

First the point counter hangs showing the final result from a game where it stopped working. Next step is that the chat isn't working any more and the old Goko-Chat starts showing up instead (chat window on the right is blank then).

I guess this "error report" is not much of a help. But I have the workaround that I close Chrome and start it again (closing the tab doesnt do it).

P.S. Thank you for this wonderful Salvager. It improves fun so much.

[ragingduckd]

I dont know if that has already been reported, but the salvager often hangs (well I am using Chrome heavily with 30 tabs or so).

First the point counter hangs showing the final result from a game where it stopped working. Thereafter the chat isn't working any more and the old Goko-Chat start showing up again.

I guess this "error report" is not much of a help. But I have the workaround that I close Chrome and start it again (closing the tab doesnt do it).

P.S. Thank you for this wonderful Salvager. It improves fun so much.

Okay, thanks for reporting.  But yeah, I can't do much to help without more info: https://github.com/aiannacc/Goko-Salvager/wiki/Support#reporting-bugs

[silverspawn]

Salvager already has this feature. There's a box you can check that will use all available zaps in each Adventures game.

Well now I feel silly, when did that get there?  Still would rather just spend $5 on the promos (the two available for real money are $1 each and I'm fine with that price).  But thanks for the heads up!

i didn't know of that feature either... thats pretty helpful

[SirD]

Okay, thanks for reporting.  But yeah, I can't do much to help without more info: https://github.com/aiannacc/Goko-Salvager/wiki/Support#reporting-bugs

I couldnt figure out how to save the JS log. So all I could do make a screen shot.

- Chat is not working (all blank, text entered disappears)
- Counter is from the previous game

Two screenshots attached.

I am using Chrome 34.0.1847.131 m on Windows 7 and Salvager 2.5.4.3.

[florrat]

I couldnt figure out how to save the JS log. So all I could do make a screen shot.

You have to copy-paste it. So press F12, go to console tab, press ctrl+A to select everything in the console (you might need to select a bit of text first by dragging your mouse), and copy-paste it to this thread.

[theblankman]

I don't want to use all the zaps I can. I want a fair game of 7 coppers 3 estates on both sides. Where I can't have that I want to approximate it.

But if I do want to zap heavily, Salvager can give us both our preferences automatically.  So the question is, would you still consider it antagonistic if Salvager had three auto-zap options: none, "fair" or "heavy," with none as the default and heavy limited by how many I've bought with coins?

There are people though that want to play the adventures, that enjoy playing against bots and like having the game setup selected to be especially entertaining. And some people like getting introduced to the expansions gradually. So I mean, I would like the adventures to be good for the people that might like them; they don't need to try to be good for the people that will never like them. For the people that will never like them, there should be another way to get the promos, or two other ways, and then so much for that.

100% agree with all of that.  If there were other ways to get all the promos, I wouldn't even be having this conversation, and I think it's great if MF improves the adventures for those who want to play them.  It just seems like throwing the promos up for sale is simple enough to be done in parallel with adventure improvement, and would net some money from people like me.  So I'm not sure why MF doesn't do it, but I guess they have reasons I don't know about. 

To clarify, the "Auto-Zap" feature doesn't do anything you couldn't do yourself.  That is, it doesn't "steal" zaps.  It only applies the zaps you already have.  All it does is save you the clicking.  It's under the Misc. tab of the User Settings.

Is it supposed to use only the two free zaps, or as many as I've got?  I tried it once last night, and it didn't seem to do anything at all (my account has several hundred zaps).  I didn't dig into the JS log to see if anything weird was going on.  If it happens again I'll do some real testing and file a bug report if necessary. 
Edit: Just tried again and it used 59 of my 400+ zaps.  Not sure what happened last night but it works now. 

[Donald X.]

But if I do want to zap heavily, Salvager can give us both our preferences automatically.  So the question is, would you still consider it antagonistic if Salvager had three auto-zap options: none, "fair" or "heavy," with none as the default and heavy limited by how many I've bought with coins?

There's obv. nothing antagonistic about using your zaps automatically.

It just seems like throwing the promos up for sale is simple enough to be done in parallel with adventure improvement, and would net some money from people like me.  So I'm not sure why MF doesn't do it, but I guess they have reasons I don't know about. 

My current guess is, they have decided to be crippled by their inability to find the lag bug.

[SirD]

At first I thought, cool auto-zap, but... I'd rather play real Dominion than starting with 7 silvers and 3 duchies. That is way too strange for me Maybe zap the opponent

[Donald X.]

'Hi Donald, I'm LadyEliza.  Tell me more about "glhf"'

It would be stuff specific to plays. You buy Scout and it says, "Huh. Interesting strategy." It buys Rats and says, "I'm going for it. What could go wrong?" You buy first turn Mountebank and it says "GG."

[AndrewisFTTW]

'Hi Donald, I'm LadyEliza.  Tell me more about "glhf"'

It would be stuff specific to plays. You buy Scout and it says, "Huh. Interesting strategy." It buys Rats and says, "I'm going for it. What could go wrong?" You buy first turn Mountebank and it says "GG."

This needs to be implemented now.

[theblankman]

A game just blew up in my face rather spectacularly at the start.  Couldn't do anything.  Could see my opponent's chats of "Are you there?" but not respond or do anything else.  2.5.4.3, Chrome, Mac.  Log:

Code: [Select]

event.returnValue is deprecated. Please use the standard event.preventDefault() instead.
Attr.specified is deprecated. Its value is always true.
Uncaught Invalid server message type: ADD_EXTUSER connection.js:98
2
Uncaught Invalid server message type: REM_EXTUSER connection.js:98
Uncaught Invalid server message type: REM_EXTUSER connection.js:98
3
Uncaught TypeError: Cannot read property 'clientConnection' of undefined utils.js:84
Uncaught TypeError: Cannot read property 'clientConnection' of undefined utils.js:84
4
Uncaught TypeError: Cannot read property 'clientConnection' of undefined utils.js:84
Uncaught Invalid server message type: ADD_EXTUSER connection.js:98
2
Uncaught Invalid server message type: REM_EXTUSER connection.js:98
Uncaught Invalid server message type: ADD_EXTUSER connection.js:98
2
Uncaught TypeError: Cannot read property 'clientConnection' of undefined utils.js:84
Uncaught Invalid server message type: ADD_EXTUSER connection.js:98
2
Uncaught Invalid server message type: REM_EXTUSER connection.js:98
Uncaught TypeError: Cannot read property 'clientConnection' of undefined utils.js:84
Uncaught Invalid server message type: REM_EXTUSER connection.js:98
4
Uncaught Invalid server message type: ADD_EXTUSER