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Author Topic: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters GAME OVER Mafia Wins!  (Read 96298 times)

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Galzria

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Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 2)
« Reply #500 on: May 23, 2012, 02:18:34 pm »

Yes K. Absolutely. Think of it like this:

No lynch leaves 4 town, 2 mafia. All 4 town must vote together successfully or the game ends after night kill.

If we lynch INCORRECTLY, that leaves 3 town, 2 mafia. All 3 town must vote together successfully or the game is over.

In both cases the game ends on a day 3 mislynch. But getting 4 townies together is much harder than getting 3 together.

Add in the fact that we could lynch correctly today, and we all but MUST lynch somebody.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

jotheonah

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Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 2)
« Reply #501 on: May 23, 2012, 02:27:52 pm »

OK, rereading everything has certainly not made everything clear. In fact, quite the contrary. But all my most probable pairings at this point except one include Kuildeous. Re-reading has made me more convinced of his guilt, and I think maybe Galzria is right that I'm overthinking with my second-guessing. I especially notice how his day 2 play has consisted of wildly throwing his accusations from one person to the next in a way that lines up with public opinion. And Galzria has convinced me that his vote will be informational.

I'm actually ready to cast vote #3 for K, but I don't want to do so abruptly since it is the penultimate vote that opens up for the hammer, etc. So I'm pulling a Volt here. Unless something drastic happens between now and then, I'm casting a vote for Kuildeous shortly after midnight EST tonight. Even if my vote is the hammer.

In the meantime, let's keep talking it out.

Sidebar: One thing my re-read has made clear is I now agree with assessments about bozzball. Very very high chance he's town. Very low chance he's playing a high-risk mafia silent act game. So for the moment Unvote.
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Insomniac

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Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 2)
« Reply #502 on: May 23, 2012, 02:33:37 pm »

OK, rereading everything has certainly not made everything clear. In fact, quite the contrary. But all my most probable pairings at this point except one include Kuildeous. Re-reading has made me more convinced of his guilt, and I think maybe Galzria is right that I'm overthinking with my second-guessing. I especially notice how his day 2 play has consisted of wildly throwing his accusations from one person to the next in a way that lines up with public opinion. And Galzria has convinced me that his vote will be informational.

I'm actually ready to cast vote #3 for K, but I don't want to do so abruptly since it is the penultimate vote that opens up for the hammer, etc. So I'm pulling a Volt here. Unless something drastic happens between now and then, I'm casting a vote for Kuildeous shortly after midnight EST tonight. Even if my vote is the hammer.

In the meantime, let's keep talking it out.

Sidebar: One thing my re-read has made clear is I now agree with assessments about bozzball. Very very high chance he's town. Very low chance he's playing a high-risk mafia silent act game. So for the moment Unvote.


This raises my suspicion of you, Volt can pull a Volt because he did it on day 1. You doing it seems like a good way to hedge when you lynch innocent
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jotheonah

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Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 2)
« Reply #503 on: May 23, 2012, 02:49:52 pm »

Also I'm playing a lot like you on Day 1. I am driving hard because I expect your mafia. I straight up expect to be lynched if you are not.


This is straight up anti-town. It's too late to stake your own life on someone this way. If we lynch Robz and he's town and the next day we lynch you and you're town, then we lose the game. So to say "Lynch him, and if he's not mafia you can lynch me" is bad for the town. You've just described a scenario where we lose the game. And of course, if we really do lynch him and he turns up town, you absolutely won't be starting Day 3 by saying "OK, lynch me." So don't pretend you will.

Recent posts by Insomniac have been so scummy, I'm really coming around to Robz's K-I theory.  Actually the sniping between the Morgrim voters makes the MOST sense if you read it thinking all 4 of us are innocent.
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Kuildeous

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Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 2)
« Reply #504 on: May 23, 2012, 02:51:22 pm »

Just kind of curious. I'd like to know how likely you believe that Mafia pairings are. I won't include pairings with my own, as you either suspect me or you don't, so these pairings are going to be very high or very low, depending on your feelings about me. You can include me if you want; I won't mind. I'm also leaving out bozzball, as there is no real information to base your decisions on. Again, you can include that if you want, but I'm more interested in the people who have been vocal in here.

If you'd be kind enough to indulge me, I'd like to see you answer the following question:

On a scale of 1 to 5, where 5 is utterly convinced, I rate each of the possible relationships.

I believe that Voltgloss and jotheonah are partners in crime.
I believe that Galzria and Robz888 are partners in crime.
I believe that Voltgloss and Robz888 are partners in crime.
I believe that jotheonah and Galzria are partners in crime.
I believe that Voltgloss and Galzria are partners in crime.
I believe that Robz888 and Insomniac are partners in crime.
I believe that Voltgloss and Insomniac are partners in crime.
I believe that Galzria and Insomniac are partners in crime.
I believe that jotheonah and Robz888 are partners in crime.
I believe that jotheonah and Insomniac are partners in crime.

I have a hypothesis.
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Insomniac

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Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 2)
« Reply #505 on: May 23, 2012, 03:00:21 pm »

Also I'm playing a lot like you on Day 1. I am driving hard because I expect your mafia. I straight up expect to be lynched if you are not.


This is straight up anti-town. It's too late to stake your own life on someone this way. If we lynch Robz and he's town and the next day we lynch you and you're town, then we lose the game. So to say "Lynch him, and if he's not mafia you can lynch me" is bad for the town. You've just described a scenario where we lose the game. And of course, if we really do lynch him and he turns up town, you absolutely won't be starting Day 3 by saying "OK, lynch me." So don't pretend you will.

Recent posts by Insomniac have been so scummy, I'm really coming around to Robz's K-I theory.  Actually the sniping between the Morgrim voters makes the MOST sense if you read it thinking all 4 of us are innocent.

I PROMISE you I will not only say lynch me I will VOTE for myself if hes not mafia. Yes town lose if this happens but its irrecoverable at this point I will be lynched on day 3 if Im wrong theres no ands ifs about it.
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Insomniac

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Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 2)
« Reply #506 on: May 23, 2012, 03:03:03 pm »

On a scale of 1 to 5, where 5 is utterly convinced, I rate each of the possible relationships.

I believe that Voltgloss and jotheonah are partners in crime.--------3
I believe that Galzria and Robz888 are partners in crime.------------4
I believe that Voltgloss and Robz888 are partners in crime.----------1
I believe that jotheonah and Galzria are partners in crime.-----------2
I believe that Voltgloss and Galzria are partners in crime.-----------2
I believe that Robz888 and Insomniac are partners in crime.--------1
I believe that Voltgloss and Insomniac are partners in crime.--------1
I believe that Galzria and Insomniac are partners in crime.----------1
I believe that jotheonah and Robz888 are partners in crime.--------3
I believe that jotheonah and Insomniac are partners in crime.-------1
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"It is one of [Insomniacs] badges of pride that he will bus anyone, at any time, and he has done it over and over on day 1. I am completely serious, it is like the biggest part of his meta." - Dsell

jotheonah

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Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 2)
« Reply #507 on: May 23, 2012, 03:05:19 pm »

OK, rereading everything has certainly not made everything clear. In fact, quite the contrary. But all my most probable pairings at this point except one include Kuildeous. Re-reading has made me more convinced of his guilt, and I think maybe Galzria is right that I'm overthinking with my second-guessing. I especially notice how his day 2 play has consisted of wildly throwing his accusations from one person to the next in a way that lines up with public opinion. And Galzria has convinced me that his vote will be informational.

I'm actually ready to cast vote #3 for K, but I don't want to do so abruptly since it is the penultimate vote that opens up for the hammer, etc. So I'm pulling a Volt here. Unless something drastic happens between now and then, I'm casting a vote for Kuildeous shortly after midnight EST tonight. Even if my vote is the hammer.

In the meantime, let's keep talking it out.

Sidebar: One thing my re-read has made clear is I now agree with assessments about bozzball. Very very high chance he's town. Very low chance he's playing a high-risk mafia silent act game. So for the moment Unvote.


This raises my suspicion of you, Volt can pull a Volt because he did it on day 1. You doing it seems like a good way to hedge when you lynch innocent

I don't buy that at all. Consider that all of the accusations against me have been based on similar evidence, i.e. that I appeared to hedge immediately before the Morgrim vote. If I were mafia and that hedge were real, I pretty much straight-up proved it didn't work. So why in God's nam would I attempt exactly the same thing on Day 2?

People can choose to read my hesitance in voting as a townie being careful not to mislynch or as a mafioso establishing plausible deniability. But if it's number 2 than I must think you all extraordinarily gullible at this point.

Add to that that this particular move makes no sense as a hedge. What kind of defense would you expect out of me Day 2? "Oh, I voted for him, but I can't be the mafia because I waited an arbitrary number of hours first!" I doubt that will convince anybody.

I don't think anyone but you is going to see this as anything other than giving the town plenty of time to talk.

Also I'm playing a lot like you on Day 1. I am driving hard because I expect your mafia. I straight up expect to be lynched if you are not.


This is straight up anti-town. It's too late to stake your own life on someone this way. If we lynch Robz and he's town and the next day we lynch you and you're town, then we lose the game. So to say "Lynch him, and if he's not mafia you can lynch me" is bad for the town. You've just described a scenario where we lose the game. And of course, if we really do lynch him and he turns up town, you absolutely won't be starting Day 3 by saying "OK, lynch me." So don't pretend you will.

Recent posts by Insomniac have been so scummy, I'm really coming around to Robz's K-I theory.  Actually the sniping between the Morgrim voters makes the MOST sense if you read it thinking all 4 of us are innocent.

I PROMISE you I will not only say lynch me I will VOTE for myself if hes not mafia. Yes town lose if this happens but its irrecoverable at this point I will be lynched on day 3 if Im wrong theres no ands ifs about it.

Do people not agree this is hideously anti-town?
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 2)
« Reply #508 on: May 23, 2012, 03:07:38 pm »

Also Robz what happened to your pairing cross-referencing analysis?

My analysis was so similar to Volt's that I didn't bother with it. But here is how I would rank my suspicions based on people.

High: Kuildeous, Insomniac
Moderate: Jtheonah, Galzria
Low: Voltgloss
None: Bozzball

If I eliminate the people who I have low suspicion for, and I eliminate pairings where there have been recent accusations and voting and tension, I'm left with K-I as the run away most suspicious pairing left. G-J is something to be aware of, they seem so on the same page, but... Volt and me are like that, so I know it can happen organically. There's also J-I and G-I, but.... J-I are fighting a bit now. Really, I'm left with K-I. If I throw Volt back into the mix there are more possible pairings (Bozzball, too), but J-I is the big one.

OK, rereading everything has certainly not made everything clear. In fact, quite the contrary. But all my most probable pairings at this point except one include Kuildeous. Re-reading has made me more convinced of his guilt, and I think maybe Galzria is right that I'm overthinking with my second-guessing. I especially notice how his day 2 play has consisted of wildly throwing his accusations from one person to the next in a way that lines up with public opinion. And Galzria has convinced me that his vote will be informational.

I'm actually ready to cast vote #3 for K, but I don't want to do so abruptly since it is the penultimate vote that opens up for the hammer, etc. So I'm pulling a Volt here. Unless something drastic happens between now and then, I'm casting a vote for Kuildeous shortly after midnight EST tonight. Even if my vote is the hammer.

In the meantime, let's keep talking it out.

Sidebar: One thing my re-read has made clear is I now agree with assessments about bozzball. Very very high chance he's town. Very low chance he's playing a high-risk mafia silent act game. So for the moment Unvote.


This raises my suspicion of you, Volt can pull a Volt because he did it on day 1. You doing it seems like a good way to hedge when you lynch innocent

Why is J doing this suspicious, like at all? Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

It's stuff like this that makes me really suspect Insomniac and Kuildeous. Their reasoning just doesn't seem as sound as other players. Like, I've been suspicious of J. I have some worries that I have brought up before. But, this point that Insomniac raised is just not a suspicion point at all. I don't see how it is. And as I've said before he keeps bringing up points against me that aren't good arguments. His main problem with me is that I cast a wide web of suspicion, but I'm pretty sure J has cast at least a comparable web, and Galzria a bigger web, and Kuildeous a MUCH bigger web. So it seems to me like he keeps coming up with distortions of the truth, which is what the mafia have to do, because they are trying to convince us of something that is wrong (whereas townspeople are trying to convince each other of something they're not sure about).

And I'm more concerned about the wide web of suspicions when there aren't good explanations underlying them, and Kuildeous's aren't so great. This is not to say that he doesn't make good points at all. I like his analysis of needing to lynch, what happens on each day, etc. But, you know it's easy to score points with posts like that. And it really looks to me like Insomniac is trying to bail him out because they are both mafia.
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jotheonah

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Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 2)
« Reply #509 on: May 23, 2012, 03:09:46 pm »

0  I believe that Voltgloss and jotheonah are partners in crime.
0  I believe that Galzria and Robz888 are partners in crime.
2  I believe that Voltgloss and Robz888 are partners in crime.
0  I believe that jotheonah and Galzria are partners in crime.
0  I believe that Voltgloss and Galzria are partners in crime.
3  I believe that Robz888 and Insomniac are partners in crime.
3  I believe that Voltgloss and Insomniac are partners in crime.
1  I believe that Galzria and Insomniac are partners in crime.
0  I believe that jotheonah and Robz888 are partners in crime.
0  I believe that jotheonah and Insomniac are partners in crime.

You'll notice I didn't use 4 or 5, since that is my level of confidence that whatever pairing exists includes you.
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jotheonah

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Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 2)
« Reply #510 on: May 23, 2012, 03:10:58 pm »

So Robz, just out of curiosity, when can we expect your words to be backed up with a vote?
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Kuildeous

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Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 2)
« Reply #511 on: May 23, 2012, 03:20:28 pm »

You'll notice I didn't use 4 or 5, since that is my level of confidence that whatever pairing exists includes you.

Heh, fair enough.
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 2)
« Reply #512 on: May 23, 2012, 03:23:59 pm »

So Robz, just out of curiosity, when can we expect your words to be backed up with a vote?

Insomniac's recent posts have gone a long way toward clearing up any remaining doubt I had that he and K are the mafia. I'll cast my vote in a few hours, after I review everything again.
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Insomniac

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Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 2)
« Reply #513 on: May 23, 2012, 03:45:28 pm »

At this point I HOPE I get lynched so that you can see rob questioning my logic is because he is mafia. I only ask that if I get lynched, Robz is next. He started the train against me and K, has stayed on it. Has pointed fingers everywhere. And just been in general really scummy. Once Axxle confirms I am a Vanilla Townie you'll see my analysis in a new light.

I would think of voting for myself but it deprives you of important information that you'll need going forward today.
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Kuildeous

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Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 2)
« Reply #514 on: May 23, 2012, 03:48:59 pm »

With all the vote changes happening, what is the current vote count? Axxle?

If someone else has been taking score, I'll accept that too.
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Insomniac

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Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 2)
« Reply #515 on: May 23, 2012, 03:50:42 pm »

Robz (2) - Kuildeous, Insomniac
Kuildeous (2) - Voltgloss, Galzria

Not Voting (3) - Jotheonah, Robz888, Bozzball
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"It is one of [Insomniacs] badges of pride that he will bus anyone, at any time, and he has done it over and over on day 1. I am completely serious, it is like the biggest part of his meta." - Dsell

Axxle

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Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 2)
« Reply #516 on: May 23, 2012, 04:00:04 pm »

Robz (2) - Kuildeous, Insomniac
Kuildeous (2) - Voltgloss, Galzria

Not Voting (3) - Jotheonah, Robz888, Bozzball
This is correct, the only thing that changed since last count is J Unvoted.
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Kuildeous

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Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 2)
« Reply #517 on: May 23, 2012, 05:58:59 pm »

I had a potentially game-changing thought, but I'm not at a place to flesh it out. Give me just a couple of hours, if you would.

unvote
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Galzria

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Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 2)
« Reply #518 on: May 23, 2012, 06:04:08 pm »

I'm always willing to listen. UNVOTE. I'll keep it down until late tonight, or I've heard you're thoughts at least.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 2)
« Reply #519 on: May 23, 2012, 06:05:03 pm »

Your*, not You're.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Robz888

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Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 2)
« Reply #520 on: May 23, 2012, 06:05:26 pm »

Vote: Kuildeous

The firmest idea I have at this point is that Insomniac and Kuildeous are a mafiia team. They are the only people (and this is more true of Insomnia really) consistently saying things I don't think are helpful or even true. They have also been neither working together (until now, with their alliance exposed) nor accusatory of each other, and... that's pretty damming in my view. They sort of ignored each other the way you would expect mafia to do. But when push came to shove today, they really joined up in an incriminating way.

If I had to choose just 1 person, I probably suspect Insomnia like 5% more than Kuildeous. But I suspect them as a pair more than I suspect either individually. And frankly, I'm exhausted of this discussion and don't think I could convince the other people who also suspect the K-I pairing that we should go first for Insomniac. So this is a really a vote for K-I as a team. We will see if it's correct. I suspect it is, but I've been wrong before!

If this ends up being the pairing, let me just say that you both played a good mafia game! Look forward to discussing your tactics with you.
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 2)
« Reply #521 on: May 23, 2012, 06:06:48 pm »

Well, I didn't see Kuildeous's plea before I posted.
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 2)
« Reply #522 on: May 23, 2012, 06:07:18 pm »

Uh, UNVOTE, I guess?
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Axxle

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Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 1)
« Reply #523 on: May 23, 2012, 06:08:50 pm »

Vote Count 2-5

Kuildeous (1) - Voltgloss
Robz888 (1) - Insomniac
Not Voting (5) - Robz888, bozzball, jotheonah, Kuildeous, Galzria

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch

Deadline: Friday, June 1, 2012 6pm PDT
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We might be from all over the world, but "we all talk this one language  : +1 card + 1 action +1 buy , gain , discard, trash... " - RTT

Galzria

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Re: Mafia II: Of Goons and Woodcutters (Day 2)
« Reply #524 on: May 23, 2012, 06:11:47 pm »

To be clear Robz, I didn't unvote because of misgivings, but just because I respect all of our players enough to hear them out. My vote is still going to K (barring something massive), but I want him to have the time to speak.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20
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