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[Glooble]

I hate to be the guy who posts to say he's not going to post, but I my work schedule is kinda crazy, and I don't see myself being on much before tomorrow at 4. Just popping in to let you all know not to prod me.

[Dsell]

Let's remember that once O had six votes, there was not that much incentive for his partner(s) not to hammer. O wasn't gonna live, and a bus would be very helpful to clearing them. I think that's a weak reason to suspect someone.

This is really true. I think that we gain less information off of the actual composition of the O wagon than we do from the revelation that everything O said was misleading, everything Galz said was true, etc.

Jo, I think you're somewhat less scummy in my eyes now but I need to go back and reread more to be sure of that.

[Captain_Frisk]

Also, can someone explain how OMGUS relates? I know what it means but I'm not sure how it fits in context.

I might be doing this wrong - but since you were pointing the FOS at me - me pointing it right back at you is OMGUS?  I didn't realize that you had already fingered me until I got my pre-post-edit.

[Robz888]

And the 6th and 7th are SFS and Grujah, townies. Except for Axxle, which is questionable, we probably have all townies voting for O. Which does make sense. Even so, this probably makes me look at Axxle2 as a less likely mafia. It was totally acceptable to vote Galzria instead.

Which is what Jo and Dsell did, and now of course it looks scummier.

[Robz888]

Also, O did not go after Pops quite as aggressively as a I had remembered. Hmm.

[jotheonah]

I'm inclined to think, a propos of nothing, that there was at least one busser on that wagon. Scum know better than to all be in one vote/didn't vote category. We should look at the Grujah wagon, too, could be instructive.

[jotheonah]

Also, O did not go after Pops quite as aggressively as a I had remembered. Hmm.

Otherway around though, I think pops took a number of shots at O.

[jotheonah]

At the very least, he pointed out the scumslip that arguably got the wagon rolling.

[Axxle]

Captain Frisk, Joth, popsofctown were on the Day 1 mislynch and not on the Day 2 lynch.  Unfortunately more people than I thought.

I'm don't think that both Joth and O would go the crazy mafia route.

PEdit: Even if we did lynch Galzria today, he'd still get a lot of information out, which I very much doubt the mafia want more of. I do see what you guys are saying though.

[Robz888]

I'm going for a run. Going to think about things. To summarize, here is where I stand:

Innocent beyond reasonable doubt: Robz888, Tables, SFS
Likely Innocent: Glooble
Medium: Popsofctown
Possible mafia: Dsell, Axxle2
Top suspects: Jotheonah, Captain_Frisk

[Captain_Frisk]

I noticed this:

O (4): Tables, Robz888, Glooble, Galzria

So, all these people definitely not mafia, except Glooble. But yeah, Glooble supplies a crucial vote for O here, where O goes from possibly lynch to probably lynch. SO this reflects very well on Glooble. As does other stuff.

Agree or disagree?: The night's events should elevate Robz to obvtown. (Stopping the Grujah wagon, fingering O)

I don't know about the others, but I tend to have less suspicion of O voters than non O voters, but I'm not ready to go out and say that anyone is ObvTown, other than the dead.  Tables is unlikely, and I don't suspect RobZ. 

I tend to agree with RobZ - that Glooble would be the one who stands out to me, but I'd still prefer to start looking over at Pops, J, DSell and I.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

At the very least, he pointed out the scumslip that arguably got the wagon rolling.

Jo, did you record that post #?

[jotheonah]

At the very least, he pointed out the scumslip that arguably got the wagon rolling.

Jo, did you record that post #?

For you, SFS, I will hunt it down. One sec.

[Tables]

Why would Grujah be the mafia target? I'm pretty sure mafia would have targeted SFS or Tables, two super confirmed town players, instead.  In light of that I'm pretty sure Galzria was the mafia kill.  The thread was dead without him much of the time and a quiet town is a benefit to the mafia team.
...

The mafia probably was afraid of targetting us in case of doctor intervention. Alternatively, they were hoping for someone to start the WIFOM implication of 'why are they still alive?' although, I'd think that considering I was one of the main leaders in the O lynch AND have SFS's copclear, they'd have not expected that to work. One final theory I just though of is... what if the mafia IS only two people, O and someone less skilled? With O dead, the less skilled player is less sure of who to shoot, and shoots someone somewhat more randomly. But I don't really believe that theory myself. If Galz was the mafia kill, though, who shot Grujah, and why?

Hmm... remember I spent a reasonable amount of time yesterday positing the (not likely but possible) suggestion that SFS's actions were the result of a mafia teammate suggestion? This feels like a possible avenue for O to have taken, now we know he was one of the scum team. Not saying I think SFS is scum, but as always, I really think that we should tread somewhat lightly.

[jotheonah]

There are I counted, all of zero posts where I found him make useful, new analysis.

Bullcrap. I made the point that survivalist tell isn't scumtell.

What analysis have you made?

Also I've been in Hawaii for a week. Still posted a bunch but I really hate Ipads and won't post anything long on them.

Vote:Tables for lurking, then redirection for bad reasons.

I quoted the immediately preceding post (unless I get ninja'ed).
I demand stickers.

O's inability to remember that Tables is investigated town is scummy, Hawaii or not.  For a scum it blends in with all the other person known to be town, for townies paying any attention at all it should be a flashing green light in your memory that this is the one player in the game whose alignment we know with a high degree of certainty.

Vote: O

It's a pretty ugly omgus too.

That's the post there.

[jotheonah]

#1926

[Captain_Frisk]

...Pops was voting on a confirmed innocent man (scummy)
J and DSell were voting on a confirmed innocent man, but together.

This feels like hindsight, as the confirmeds were not yet confirmed at the time.  Is this the standard way to sum up "this is what we know NOW" on the morning of a new day?  'Cause I've already wasted time on questioning some other specific phraseology that I seemed to read too much into, and I don't want to do it again. But this seems like it could be deflection, and Frisk IS under somewhat elevated suspicion today.

To be honest - I'm not sure - I was summarizing it for myself - pointing out the things that I noticed.  I agree that I look scummy as all hell.  The important thing in my mind is that Mafia actually know that they are voting for innocents when they vote.  I'm not saying that makes the 3 of them mafia - but it does make them more suspicious in my mind.  I would also tend to think that mafia would prefer to avoid visibly voting together in small groups, but this is WIFOM - I'm told that Galz + RobZ did it to great effect in M2.

[jotheonah]

Note that that's a long time before the O wagon, but it may have been in our heads later/believe it was referenced by O voters. What really got the O wagon rolling was his protesting too much about Robz's theory, which I believe I was the first to point out.

[Axxle]

Solo challenge: find a f.ds thread that would not be improved by yo momma jokes.

Vote: Yo Momma

[Axxle]

Have to go for a while.

Will vote O if need be before deadline, prefer Galzria. So excited about new information tomorrow.

Joth said he was willing to vote for O, and never actually did, just kept talking about how Galz lynch was better.  Sounds very hedgy and thus suspicious.

[Voltgloss]

If Galzria were the Mafia Godfather, would he flip town when killed?

No.  A Mafia Chancellor {Godfather} flips Mafia when killed.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Let's remember that once O had six votes, there was not that much incentive for his partner(s) not to hammer. O wasn't gonna live, and a bus would be very helpful to clearing them. I think that's a weak reason to suspect someone.

Jo - is this some sort of disguised semi-accusation at me?  Cause I hammered O.

[Robz888]

Check out this vote total. This is the top of the anti-Jo bandwagon, and right after this count, Jo votes for himself, getting to L-1.

Vote Count 2-13

Galzria (1): popsofctown
O (1): SwitchedFromStarcraft
jotheonah (5): Dsell, Tables, Robz888, Axxle, Galzria
popsofctown (2): jotheonah, Glooble
Glooble (1): O

Not voting {2}: Grujah, Captain_Frisk

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Lynch Deadline:  Monday, June 25, 9:59 a.m. EDT

How would people interpret this, with respect to my main suspects, Jo, Frisk, and to some extent Dsell and Glooble? If Jo is mafia, no way Dsell or Axxle are, and vice versa.

Also, this is part of the reason why my theory developed in the first place: that Jo couldn't get to 6 votes (without voting for himself), but Grujah did. So this leads me to thinking Jo is mafia, and fellow mafia were unwilling to get on the wagon, which didn't apply to the Grujah or Axxl1 bandwagons.

[jotheonah]

Have to go for a while.

Will vote O if need be before deadline, prefer Galzria. So excited about new information tomorrow.

Joth said he was willing to vote for O, and never actually did, just kept talking about how Galz lynch was better.  Sounds very hedgy and thus suspicious.

I said it yesterday, I'll say it again. I was watching the thread like a hawk, and I would have hammered if no one else had. We hadn't heard from O himself in some time, and I wanted to leave maximum opportunity for townie last words if townie he was.

Now I really do have to go for a while.

[popsofctown]

D2 I pointed out that O's scumslip made him the scummiest person in the thread (though I later scaled it back to be roughly a tie with Galzria).  No one was listening to me, so later when a consensus lynch on Grujah was mentioned I voted for it.  When the Grujah wagon took lots of rapid momentum, including O's scumtacular "I need to wagon sometime" vote, Grujah got less popular and I realized lynching either O or Galzria was a goal that could be realized.  I made a post saying I'd look back in the thread and see which between O and Galzria had the best relationship with Grujah such that if the lynch flipped scum, Grujah would be totally cleared.  Since O was a shameless, lazy bandwagon and Galzria expressed lots of misgivings and was not quiet about his participation, I saw that O was preferable.  Then I declared O is a preferable cantidate for that reason.  At least, I think I did.  I also thought I voted him, but when I checked to see if I should correct the mod's end of day votecount, I discovered that I never actually voted O.  I spent the rest of the day campaigning for O lynch, ignorant of where my vote actually was, rallying the populace with instantly classic slogans like "O lynch is go lynch".

If you look at my behavior in any sort of sincere manner you'll get an interpretation consistent with this.  It's not fair to say I'm beyond reproach, but if I'm going to be mislynched it better be for bussing O, not protecting him.

Axxle2's position on the wagon is not very clear.  Given how much the townies in this town must disagree on everything with all of our failed wagons, it seems like O lynch would not have happened without at least one bus, especially since one of the townies supporting it didn't even have his vote where his mouth was.  It's gambler's fallacy to say Axxle2 is scum because he voted O, but nothing about O lynch makes me feel better about the slot, and in my/Galzria quoting me/'s words, "Axxle2 is one of the scummiest players itt"