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[jotheonah]

We do have the weekend, so anyone thinking about hammering, please do Grujah the courtesy of letting him get a rebuttal/ plea/ something in if it's possible. It could be enlightening.

[jotheonah]

oh god what if he role claims.

[Galzria]

Wow, how is it in a span of ten posts I can go from middling/high suspicion of a guy to really uncomfortable? I guess this is where I'm supposed to run the wagon home, but my goodness it started rolling quick.

The interesting thing is the spread of players (on my suspicion list) on this wagon. We range from O (decent town read), to Pops (strongest Mafia read), and just about everywhere in between.

And yet I really can't DISLIKE this wagon. Hmm... could this honestly be a quick rolling town wagon on scum? Gah. Don't trust it.

[jotheonah]

Wow, how is it in a span of ten posts I can go from middling/high suspicion of a guy to really uncomfortable? I guess this is where I'm supposed to run the wagon home, but my goodness it started rolling quick.

The interesting thing is the spread of players (on my suspicion list) on this wagon. We range from O (decent town read), to Pops (strongest Mafia read), and just about everywhere in between.

And yet I really can't DISLIKE this wagon. Hmm... could this honestly be a quick rolling town wagon on scum? Gah. Don't trust it.

I was gonna make exactly the same post but didn't want to be accused of hedging. But yeah it's a little disconcerting.

[O]

I believe we all (except maybe Pops) feel that way.

[Galzria]

Alright, Grujah is L-2 right now, and Axxle just logged in, lurked, and logged off. I don't trust his silence, so let's go one more.

Vote: Grujah

[popsofctown]

I believe we all (except maybe Pops) feel that way.

I believe everyone except for me feels that way.

[Robz888]

Stop, halt, desist.

[Robz888]

I'm now almost certain Grujah is NOT mafia, due to the ease with which he gets to 1 vote short of lynch.

There's 6 of you voting this way. I'd bet 3 or 4 of you are getting seriously outplayed by the 2 or 3 of you who are mafia.

I need to go back and look at something. I'll have more in a minute. I'm begging one of you to unvote immediately.

[Glooble]

Fine, Robz. I will hear you out.

Unvote.

[Glooble]

I feel like we've been saying "worst case scenario, we could just lynch Grujah" all day, but this time it took because we're all so sick of this day and want it to end. Grujah is nobody's number one suspect, but he's a lynch we can all get behind.

[O]

I'm now almost certain Grujah is NOT mafia, due to the ease with which he gets to 1 vote short of lynch.

There's 6 of you voting this way. I'd bet 3 or 4 of you are getting seriously outplayed by the 2 or 3 of you who are mafia.

I need to go back and look at something. I'll have more in a minute. I'm begging one of you to unvote immediately.

So.. the easy Axxle wagon D1 has 1 mafia according to you, and the grujah wagon has 2-3?

Robz just went up on my scummy list due to that logic. I feel like he's probably protecting Grujah, who is his teammate. Otherwise he would have let Grujah be lynched and then used his flip to further his argument (if he was town and correct).

[Robz888]

Let's look back to Day 1. Here are the people who voted to mislynch Axxle1:

Galzria, jotheonah, Captain_Frisk, SwitchedFromStarcraft, popsofctown, Glooble, Grujah, theorel

Let me eliminate the deceased (theorel). I will also eliminate SFS, who we all pretty much assume is town based on his claim. I will also eliminate Grujah, because I am comparing this to the people who are voting Grujah, and obviously Grujah wouldn't be one of them.

Galzria, jotheonah, Captain_Frisk, SwitchedFromStarcraft, popsofctown, Glooble, Grujah, theorel

Who is left? The exact same people who are now voting for Grujah, plus O. Grujah voters:

Captain_Frisk, Glooble, Pops, Jo, Galzria, O

First, you people don't have a good track record. But whatever, we need to lynch someone, fine. Doesn't this give you pause? That the exact same people got together and upped this so quickly? When wagons against other people who were in this group--like Jo--failed to get enough votes?

I'm not even sure who I'm talking to, because my best guess is all 3 mafia are in there. But whichever 3 of you are not mafia, just think about this. It's the same people pushing this vote. The closest thing we have to confirmed townies are SFS and Tables, and they aren't on this thing. I'm not on this thing, and I've pretty much given off a town read to everyone. Who knows about Dsell, although I don't think he is scum. And the case against Axxle2, I just don't see it at all. What I'm saying is, we are all keeping off this bandwagon right now, and Grujah was top of many people's suspicions... but he's so easy for the mafia to build a quick end-of-day campaign against.

I have no idea which of the people in this wagon are the mafia, although I am starting to get a very bad feeling about Galzria, in addition to my pre-existing suspicions of Jo and Glooble. But honestly, I'm sure at least 2 of those calls are wrong, I'm just not sure which. I'm cognizant of the fact that O was not on the Day 1 wagon, but he is here, when the mafia might really need all 3 to score the kill. In light of his slip up about Tables, that could say something. Maybe I suspect Frisk and Pops less than the others? Frisk for starting this wagon, rather than riding it, and Pops for drawing so much fire earlier from many of these same people. But I just don't know. Feel free to disagree with those reasons and pick them apart.

Obviously, I need help here to make this case. And I know that at least half of you are actually part of the town. But look around. This bandwagon looks scummy as all hell. Or am I crazy?

[Robz888]

Points to Glooble for unvoting. Negative points to O for ridiculous statement about me trying to defend Grujah. I was the first person to call him scummy on Day 1 (not that I expect you to remember that).

[O]

...you put ALL three mafia in a 5man bandwagon, and none on Me, Glooble or Jo?

You used numbers at first that implied that 1 mafia was within the Axxle wagon, now you're saying 3 mafia. Even with the addittion of me (you assuming, falsely, that I'm scum) that doesn't add up.

I think it's ludicrous to say that 3 mafia are among these 5 people. I don't think all of the 2-4 (probably 3) mafia would all jump in a bandwagon TWO DAYS IN A ROW. That just seems ridiculous. I'm not sure where you put possible SK in your "scum" count.

Grujah has clear, obvious reasons to be lynched -> He lurks, has made generally unhelpful posts that appear slightly scummy to me at least. There are crap-logic bandwagons against Jo, and yet you claim that those wagons are empty of scum.

[Galzria]

Yes, because calling somebody scummy D1 SO clears you as a possible teammate.

[O]

Points to Glooble for unvoting. Negative points to O for ridiculous statement about me trying to defend Grujah. I was the first person to call him scummy on Day 1 (not that I expect you to remember that).

Oh come on. You know your math doesn't add up. I'm pretty sure it wasn't just Captain Frisk who said 1 scum in the Axxle wagon, and that it was you too.. though I'll have to look back to check.

[Robz888]

...you put ALL three mafia in a 5man bandwagon, and none on Me, Glooble or Jo?

You used numbers at first that implied that 1 mafia was within the Axxle wagon, now you're saying 3 mafia. Even with the addittion of me (you assuming, falsely, that I'm scum) that doesn't add up.

I think it's ludicrous to say that 3 mafia are among these 5 people. I don't think all of the 2-4 (probably 3) mafia would all jump in a bandwagon TWO DAYS IN A ROW. That just seems ridiculous. I'm not sure where you put possible SK in your "scum" count.

Grujah has clear, obvious reasons to be lynched -> He lurks, has made generally unhelpful posts that appear slightly scummy to me at least. There are crap-logic bandwagons against Jo, and yet you claim that those wagons are empty of scum.

It's a 6 man bandwagon, with 2-3 mafia. Very well could be 3. None of the other people are people I really suspect, I've realized. I don't think there was 1 scum on the Axxle wagon. Forgive me if I said otherwise, I think from the start though I assumed there were 2. In fact, I ACTUALLY think I suggested there might be all 3. But perhaps it's just the 2, and you.

Certainly, some of them have participated in some of the other bandwagons against you, Glooble, Jo. I don't know which of these people were mafia, and which of these people were victims.

But the ease with which Grujah accumulated 6 votes from the 5 people who lynched wrong last time tells me something very scary.

[O]

I just read back and it wasn't you who made the analysis I was remembering. So at least your math adds up, my bad.

Still seeings some uncomfortable linkages between you and Grujah, though. Its like Me/Tinas in M1 except TINAS actually did actions that convinced me he was town whereas you pretty much only have votes to go on.

[Robz888]

Yes, because calling somebody scummy D1 SO clears you as a possible teammate.

Obviously not. But I was literally the first person to call him out:

Here's what I'm curious about at the moment. It seems that someone will say, "Hey, look what this person did. Suspicious. VOTE: THEM." And then two or three other people will instantly jump on that vote, sometimes with no explanation.

VOTE: POPSOFCTOWN

I'm interested in seeing where this leads, with my above suspicions as my reasonings.

Unvote Insomniac
Vote Pops

So, you were won over to that pretty easily, eh Grujah?

[O]

So Robz, what do we do from here? I still think you're townie despite not liking the Grujah-Robz link. We have two likely wagons ATM, and it's clear to me at least that O, Galzria, Glooble, Popsofctown and obviously Jo will not be voting for Jo, because we all get townreads from him. And you're stopping a Grujah wagon. So where do you think we find our scum to lynch?

[Glooble]

Robz, your analysis succeeded in freaking me out enough to keep me from revoting Grujah at the present time. However, I'm starting to find it unlikely we'll reach a consensus on anyone else in the next two days. Do you think no lynch gives us better odds than lynching Grujah? Enough to make up for the loss of concrete information we would gain from a lynch?

[Axxle]

Drinking, so don't want to vote.  Checking site is part of phone ritual.

[jotheonah]

Yeah, Robz, it doesn't do a lot of good for you to jump out and say Stop! Don't vote Grujah! Vote more or less everyone else! You need a plan.

I agree the wagon built up speed way too fast, but your whole case is much stronger post-flip, isn't it?  It's not impossible that this wagon is mafia-free, and it's not impossible that theres just one busser on it.

I dislike your shouting orders and doling out points to people who do things you like.

I'm standing by this lynch and waiting for the flip.

[jotheonah]

One more thing. Fast building wagon could mean we've lucked out and hit SK.