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[Captain_Frisk]

a) If I'm on target with post 1009 (and your post makes me believe more strongly that I am - that you and CF are mafia), this is a thinly veiled message to a potential third mafia to keep an eye on what I'm posting, as I might inflict further damage. 

I want to let this slide, but a post with my name in it 6 times is just too much fun to ignore.

The theory you are putting forth is:

1.  Axxle and I are both mafia
2.  At some point we agreed that we would do some misdirection on Day 1 and accuse Axxle
3.  Instead of jumping on a pops or J bandwagon, I instead assist with the creation of a bandwagon on my mafia teammate.  Note, while I was the 3rd vote, I almost discount J's vote because I don't view anything he does while being pressured by town to be credible. 
4.  We get up everyone riled up to 7 votes, and I continue to sit here, waiting for the hammer to fall

I really have a hard time seeing how this is good mafia play.

The slowness of this wagon, and the fact that no-one is hedge jumping off it makes me feel better about being on it.  If he flips town, I fully expect Galzria and I will be the focus of suspicion tomorrow for arguing for his lynch.

[Captain_Frisk]

Opal come hammer this sucka.

I know you're playing this game nice and terse, and trying hard to fight O for the most unhelpful player, but any reasons why Opal should come hammer him?

[Grujah]

Also, what do we do night? Any good target for any potential abilities?

[Robz888]

Opal come hammer this sucka.

I know you're playing this game nice and terse, and trying hard to fight O for the most unhelpful player, but any reasons why Opal should come hammer him?

So we can get on with things, I assume. I don't really think Axxle is mafia and even I want to hammer him, just to move on.

[Captain_Frisk]

I don't really think Axxle is mafia and even I want to hammer him, just to move on.

I'm pretty sure you have the power to do so.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Grujah - I promised to look into my votes on both J and Axxle.  I did this quick and dirty by checking my posts in my profile. I have not confirmed the data against the votecount posts that Volt is making, so I could have made an errror.  Unfortunately, post #s dont appear in the versions under my profile, so I can't reference specific posts, but I felt like time was of the essence.

Here is my vote history:
O - for being in favor of voting randomly. 

Axxle - for an approach to the game that would allow a post I found beyond frivolous, but which Axxle said (and I confirmed with review) was in response to a direct information request.  I think that was the first vote for Axxle, but I made it on a tiny bit of knowledge.  Perhaps this is where the notion started that I was anti-humor, but I didn't read it as an attempt at humor, it seemed too .... something.  I think this was the very 1st vote for Axxle, but I'm not claiming any credit here, as my vote was based on a faulty assumption.

Robz, to get a response

Then Robz again, for the reasons I outlined at the time.  I "invited" a bandwagon, which never got above 1 vote.

Jotheonah - I made vote #6 on the current wagon, and as I said at the time, I did it to see what happened.  By that, I meant several things. If people jumped off, who and why?  If people jumped on, who and how quickly.  But I also wanted to see if the count went to 8 at all, to get a feel for how quickly the game state changes.

And finally, Axxle, where I was #4 on the current wagon.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I don't see a difference between saying "could be mafia, could be town" and other folks using terms like "slight scumread", its more explicitly a hedge, but neither is a statement of pure confidence.

The only people who can be clearly confident... are mafia.

I strenuously disagree.  The only people who can be confident are townies. They never have to look like something they aren't.

[Robz888]

Also, what do we do night? Any good target for any potential abilities?

Uh, my advice here is seemingly obvious: Investigate the suspicious and Protect people who are in danger.

Who is suspicious? I would advise anybody with investigative powers to possibly look at Jo, Grujah, Theorel, Gloobe.

And I would advise Doctor/Jailkeepers to protect whoever they think is going to die tonight. Probably the person who is going to die is someone who has been forceful and helpful to the town. You can figure out which people fall into that category.

[Robz888]

I don't really think Axxle is mafia and even I want to hammer him, just to move on.

I'm pretty sure you have the power to do so.

I know. But I'd never forgive myself if I did it and Axxle flipped town. And I let somebody else off the hook that way.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

@Jo: I understand the points you are making. I agree about Insomniac's post. Maybe I should re-evluate him. And I agree that it's easy to have hedging, hiding mafia in posts like that. I don't think mine is guilty of that.

I also must point this out: Jo, your tone seems to change remarkably depending on how much danger you are in.

+1 for this observation.

Of course you would like this observation.  It brings Jo back into the picture, which may help Axxle out of a bind.

[jotheonah]

well, ok. This is yet another area where I disagree with the conventional wisdom apparently. I've been watching Insomniac and it was like "why all the short posts" and he was all "iPhone" and then when he came back for his much promised long post it was a person-by-person thing, and it just struck me that that was such an easy post to make, as compared with a long case against a single person or on a single topic. So it made me wonder about the usefulness of those posts for mafia vs for town.

Sidebar, for those of you following along at home, I'm starting to get suspicious of Insomniac.

Do you anyone you are not suspicious of?

Several people. But I accomplish nothing by listing them.

[Galzria]

I agree with Robz that a Cop should investigate the suspicious. I strongly disagree with his list. I think the Cop should use their own reads, and not be influenced. Mafia will mislead with names, Town won't know for sure, so could suggest bad ideas.

Protectors, Robz is spot on. Protect the town people you find most helpful. Again, decide for yourself based on the lynch flip.

Vig, hold off unless you're confident. I'm not sure though. Not familiar enough with the role and it's intricacies.

[Captain_Frisk]

I agree with Robz that a Cop should investigate the suspicious. I strongly disagree with his list. I think the Cop should use their own reads, and not be influenced. Mafia will mislead with names, Town won't know for sure, so could suggest bad ideas.

Protectors, Robz is spot on. Protect the town people you find most helpful. Again, decide for yourself based on the lynch flip.

Vig, hold off unless you're confident. I'm not sure though. Not familiar enough with the role and it's intricacies.

While reviewing roles on the wiki for playing in closed games, I found this note to be especially hilarious:

As a final note, generally when given the choice between being able to kill someone or being able to do almost anything else, players will choose to kill someone. Balance your games accordingly

From: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Vigilante

[Grujah]

What about one-shots?

My general perceptions:
1-Shot Vig should not go for it unless he is certain. (or if he highly suspects his night-death).
1-Shot Doc is more efficent with lesser players as you have more chance to heal right, but than again.. (also, if you highly likely to die, sure, you should protect somebody else but unless there multiple kills its wasted anyhow).
Now, 1-Shot Cop .. It is only one which is useless if doesn't survive the actual night when he uses it. So I guess he shouldn't wait for it too long?

[Galzria]

And I went up there, I said, "Shrink, I want to kill. I mean, I wanna, I wanna kill. Kill. I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and guts and veins in my teeth. Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill, KILL, KILL." And I started jumpin up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL," and he started jumpin up and down with me and we was both jumping up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL." And the sargent came over, pinned a medal on me, sent me down the hall, said, "You're our boy."

[Captain_Frisk]

And I went up there, I said, "Shrink, I want to kill. I mean, I wanna, I wanna kill. Kill. I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and guts and veins in my teeth. Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill, KILL, KILL." And I started jumpin up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL," and he started jumpin up and down with me and we was both jumping up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL." And the sargent came over, pinned a medal on me, sent me down the hall, said, "You're our boy."

+1 for that... and off to spotify.  I wonder what % of people will get the reference.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

...
I want to let this slide, but a post with my name in it 6 times is just too much fun to ignore.

The theory you are putting forth is:

1.  Axxle and I are both mafia
2.  At some point we agreed that we would do some misdirection on Day 1 and accuse Axxle
3.  Instead of jumping on a pops or J bandwagon, I instead assist with the creation of a bandwagon on my mafia teammate.  Note, while I was the 3rd vote, I almost discount J's vote because I don't view anything he does while being pressured by town to be credible. 
4.  We get up everyone riled up to 7 votes, and I continue to sit here, waiting for the hammer to fall

I really have a hard time seeing how this is good mafia play.

The slowness of this wagon, and the fact that no-one is hedge jumping off it makes me feel better about being on it.  If he flips town, I fully expect Galzria and I will be the focus of suspicion tomorrow for arguing for his lynch.

It would be good mafia play because it's incredibly bold and misdirecting if it works.  Nothing ventured, nothing gained. And if there are 3 mafia, then even in the event of failure, you still have a safety margin - you would not be the lone remaining mafia.

As to your other points - Maybe you had faith in the slowness of the wagon, based on your knowledge of (most of) the players and the game's discussion of the relative merits of quick lynches versus not.  (I'll have to go back and look for comments on that topic, especially from you and Axxle.) And for obvious reasons, you can't jump off now, it would look so MAFIA.  But you've done a nice job of "explaining" why you aren't jumping - you "feel better" 'cause no one has jumped.  I submit that you feel better precisely because you are 'continuing to sit, waiting for the hammer to fall' rather than dealing with Axxle's demise.

[jotheonah]

And I went up there, I said, "Shrink, I want to kill. I mean, I wanna, I wanna kill. Kill. I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and guts and veins in my teeth. Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill, KILL, KILL." And I started jumpin up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL," and he started jumpin up and down with me and we was both jumping up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL." And the sargent came over, pinned a medal on me, sent me down the hall, said, "You're our boy."

+1 for that... and off to spotify.  I wonder what % of people will get the reference.

I know this isn't the reference, but this is where my mind went:

[jotheonah]

Raise your hand if you're buying SFS's case right now.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

And I went up there, I said, "Shrink, I want to kill. I mean, I wanna, I wanna kill. Kill. I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and guts and veins in my teeth. Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill, KILL, KILL." And I started jumpin up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL," and he started jumpin up and down with me and we was both jumping up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL." And the sargent came over, pinned a medal on me, sent me down the hall, said, "You're our boy."

+1 for that... and off to spotify.  I wonder what % of people will get the reference.

Are you going to spotify the Group W bench, or spotify the envelope that I put at the bottom of that pile of garbage?

[Galzria]

Raise your hand if you're buying SFS's case right now.

I won't discredit much at this point, but I'm not looking or thinking pairs until I see a flip.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

And I went up there, I said, "Shrink, I want to kill. I mean, I wanna, I wanna kill. Kill. I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and guts and veins in my teeth. Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill, KILL, KILL." And I started jumpin up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL," and he started jumpin up and down with me and we was both jumping up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL." And the sargent came over, pinned a medal on me, sent me down the hall, said, "You're our boy."

+1 for that... and off to spotify.  I wonder what % of people will get the reference.

Are you going to spotify the Group W bench, or spotify the envelope that I put at the bottom of that pile of garbage?

I ALWAYS have a radio on on Thanksgiving, particularly at noon.

[O]

O - Trying to generate discussion, but not succeeding.  O is currently my strongest town read.

O -- I like O, what can I say? And I'm one of the people who hates and suspects humor! Seriously, I like O. He makes good points, I think. Don't get any suspicion reading from him. That's probably my fault. I think I am prone to over-suspect the new people and under-suspect the veterans.

Damnit guys, now I'll either be killed for being obvtown or become highly suspicious when they don't kill off an obvtown.

[Axxle]

@O: there are people who say you are useless though.

[Captain_Frisk]

@O: there are people who say you are useless though.

I think O's play makes alot of sense - for O:

1. If Mafia - he can do whatever he wants, and point to "thats just the way I play - see threads X,Y,Z"  In fact, we're all doing it FOR HIM.
2. If town - he's likely to avoid night kills - so that he can be an asset to the town in the future.

Now - whether this is pro town or not is dependent on whether or not you consider there to be skill differentiation in this game, and whether or not the value to the town on Day 2 compensates for the negative utility he provides to the town by not providing anything trustworthy.