Dominion Strategy Forum

Dominion => Game Reports => Topic started by: brokoli on May 19, 2014, 03:54:10 pm

Title: Apothecary, Bank, Sage, Fun
Post by: brokoli on May 19, 2014, 03:54:10 pm
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/f/f9/Wandering_Minstrel.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Wandering Minstrel) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/e/e0/Council_Room.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Council Room) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/3/3a/Explorer.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Explorer) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/b/b4/Outpost.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Outpost) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/7/78/Bank.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Bank)
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/2/2f/Beggar.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Beggar) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/6/69/Apothecary.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Apothecary) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/8/8e/Hermit.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Hermit) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/7/70/Sage.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Sage) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/c/c1/Herald.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Herald)
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Beggar, Apothecary, Hermit, Sage, Herald, Wandering Minstrel, Council Room, Explorer, Outpost, Bankhttp://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140519/log.51354134e4b07cef8209f582.1400528793274.txt (http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140519/log.51354134e4b07cef8209f582.1400528793274.txt)

So obviously, Apothecary + Bank is very strong by its own, but I really like Sage here. It doesn't dig for apothecary, but it's a very good cycler and discarder after Apothecary. Turn 3, 4 and 5 I buy three apothecaries because of Sage + Potion.

I think my play was pretty much right. I did consider to buy that wandering minstrel and beggar earlier, but I wanted to focus on bank and apothecaries, and didn't want my sage to dig for Minstrel. I'm not sure hermit would help here, Apothecary draw a lot anyway. Maybe it's possible build a megaturn madman deck with the help of Beggar and a few council rooms ?
Title: Re: Apothecary, Bank, Sage, Fun
Post by: shark_bait on May 19, 2014, 04:19:04 pm
If you are going for Bank/Apothecary you really need a +Buy in there.  Council Room can do that very well in this deck.  Wandering Minstrel and Herald also combo very nicely with Apothecary.  A deck capable of double/triple Province should easily be obtained by incorporating those cards into the engine.

The idea is that Apothecary can guarantee Herald hitting action and that Wandering Minstrel can both activate Heralds and discard VP junk from on top of the deck.  It will also discard Copper which can then be picked up en masse  with a play or two of Apothecary when your deck is drawn.
Title: Re: Apothecary, Bank, Sage, Fun
Post by: brokoli on May 19, 2014, 05:11:37 pm
Yes, in this game I did buy one council room and it clearly helped. WM + Herald seems cute, but I don't really see why I would need that, Sage already do a good job at discarding the junk. Buying them seems just like a waste of time. In this game I bought one WM for +action and it was already enough (it's a very fast game that lasted 13 turns, I don't think I needed to build more, unless a very good megaturn could beat those 5 provinces by turn 13)
Title: Re: Apothecary, Bank, Sage, Fun
Post by: soulnet on May 19, 2014, 05:59:50 pm
I think you want Outpost better than CR for +Buy. I would get Outpost and a single CR and a couple of WMs to cleanup after greening. Beggar I do not like at all, since you won't have that many buys to use those Coppers anyway. I would go for 7 Coppers + Potion + Bank = 16 for double Province turns.
Title: Re: Apothecary, Bank, Sage, Fun
Post by: lespeutere on May 20, 2014, 09:16:13 am
12 turns. Note that my outpost turn just resulted in a WM. With a little luck and correct tactics for setting the outpost turn up, it can be enhanced further, I believe:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140520/log.50fa840ae4b0f82020d81dfd.1400591649983.txt
Title: Re: Apothecary, Bank, Sage, Fun
Post by: soulnet on May 20, 2014, 09:29:32 am
Quote from: lespeutere on May 20, 2014, 09:16:13 am
12 turns. Note that my outpost turn just resulted in a WM. With a little luck and correct tactics for setting the outpost turn up, it can be enhanced further, I believe:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140520/log.50fa840ae4b0f82020d81dfd.1400591649983.txt

Nice. Is it necessary to get 3 Sages? Seems a bit much to me.
Title: Re: Apothecary, Bank, Sage, Fun
Post by: lespeutere on May 20, 2014, 09:36:11 am
Not necesary. But probably the best option at 3$.
Title: Re: Apothecary, Bank, Sage, Fun
Post by: soulnet on May 20, 2014, 09:53:44 am
Quote from: lespeutere on May 20, 2014, 09:36:11 am
Not necesary. But probably the best option at 3$.

I wonder whether the Sage you bought turn 9 is better than nothing (or Copper).
Title: Re: Apothecary, Bank, Sage, Fun
Post by: brokoli on May 20, 2014, 10:02:32 am
Quote from: lespeutere on May 20, 2014, 09:16:13 am
12 turns. Note that my outpost turn just resulted in a WM. With a little luck and correct tactics for setting the outpost turn up, it can be enhanced further, I believe:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140520/log.50fa840ae4b0f82020d81dfd.1400591649983.txt
Nice ! but I see 13 turns…
Title: Re: Apothecary, Bank, Sage, Fun
Post by: lespeutere on May 20, 2014, 10:33:00 am
Hm, you're right. I don't know why it says 12 turns at the game end. I did it in 12 turns, though:
http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20140520/log.50fa840ae4b0f82020d81dfd.1400592805672.txt
;)
Title: Re: Apothecary, Bank, Sage, Fun
Post by: Awaclus on May 20, 2014, 01:32:06 pm
Quote from: soulnet on May 20, 2014, 09:53:44 am
Quote from: lespeutere on May 20, 2014, 09:36:11 am
Not necesary. But probably the best option at 3$.

I wonder whether the Sage you bought turn 9 is better than nothing (or Copper).
Nothing is better than a Sage.
Title: Re: Apothecary, Bank, Sage, Fun
Post by: theblankman on May 21, 2014, 02:52:52 am
11 turns, no Outpost :D
http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20140520/log.516d33dbe4b082c74d7b39fa.1400654080299.txt (http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20140520/log.516d33dbe4b082c74d7b39fa.1400654080299.txt)
Title: Re: Apothecary, Bank, Sage, Fun
Post by: soulnet on May 21, 2014, 08:03:24 am
Quote from: theblankman on May 21, 2014, 02:52:52 am
11 turns, no Outpost :D
http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20140520/log.516d33dbe4b082c74d7b39fa.1400654080299.txt (http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20140520/log.516d33dbe4b082c74d7b39fa.1400654080299.txt)

Caveat: Your opponent opening CR speeds things up a lot for both of you.
Title: Re: Apothecary, Bank, Sage, Fun
Post by: theblankman on May 21, 2014, 09:34:01 pm
Quote from: soulnet on May 21, 2014, 08:03:24 am
Caveat: Your opponent opening CR speeds things up a lot for both of you.
True.  I'm still not sure the Outpost is necessary.  I played this several times and got 12 in a few of them.  13-14 seemed average.
Title: Re: Apothecary, Bank, Sage, Fun
Post by: soulnet on May 22, 2014, 09:46:49 am
Quote from: theblankman on May 21, 2014, 09:34:01 pm
True.  I'm still not sure the Outpost is necessary.  I played this several times and got 12 in a few of them.  13-14 seemed average.

I thought it might give extra endgame control. In a mirror in which you are getting les Apothecaries and thus getting a longer game, maybe it could work? Also, against a good opponent, CRs penalty is really important. If we just want to finish fast, CRs penalty is actually a benefit. I have some time to play and stream this afternoon (15 GMT or later). If someone wants to test this, I am happy too (I do not have the cards, though).
Title: Re: Apothecary, Bank, Sage, Fun
Post by: Burning Skull on May 29, 2014, 08:27:56 am
Quote from: Awaclus on May 20, 2014, 01:32:06 pm
Nothing is better than a Sage.

Yes, what can be better than good old Sage.. Nothing! :D
Title: Re: Apothecary, Bank, Sage, Fun
Post by: Awaclus on May 29, 2014, 08:37:35 am
Quote from: Burning Skull on May 29, 2014, 08:27:56 am
Quote from: Awaclus on May 20, 2014, 01:32:06 pm
Nothing is better than a Sage.

Yes, what can be better than good old Sage.. Nothing! :D
That's the joke.