Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Voltaire]

Is that what you want me to feel about your protagonist, Moffat? That I hate him, and he should go away? I'm supposed to hate the mad man with a box?

Mummy on the Orient Express covered this, I feel.

And that order is important. I hadn't seen Mummy when I made that comment.

It's clear they were going for the break-up/make-up thing, but in order for that to work, you have to give the audience a reason why the make-up is a good idea. If the Doctor is going to be more like "Mummy" it's a great idea. If he's going to be more like "Episodes 1-7" it's a terrible idea. And that's the issue. Like I said before, I was on Clara's side at the end of "Moon," because they sank the Doctor to such unforgivable depths of jackass-ery. He redeemed himself in "Mummy," sure, but it's only a start.

[Galzria]

I actually strongly prefer this version to any we've had since the reboot. Reminds me of Hartnell - a crotchety, sulky, brooding, unhappy, and generally unlikable old man. He's not a hero, and he doesn't try to / pretend to be.

[Voltaire]

I actually strongly prefer this version to any we've had since the reboot. Reminds me of Hartnell - a crotchety, sulky, brooding, unhappy, and generally unlikable old man. He's not a hero, and he doesn't try to / pretend to be.

That's not William Hartnell's Doctor. I hate it when people say that's the First Doctor. Old and cranky != unlikable. Also, the First Doctor explained himself. I love the first Doctor. I hate 12.

[Polk5440]

I actually strongly prefer this version to any we've had since the reboot. Reminds me of Hartnell - a crotchety, sulky, brooding, unhappy, and generally unlikable old man. He's not a hero, and he doesn't try to / pretend to be.

Easily my favorite version of the modern doctors, too. I love the monologues, the professorial questions, the fact that he has trouble distinguishing people's ages (I feel for him), and the fact there is no sugar-coating. He doesn't pretend or joke about his necessary lies anymore (this bothered me given the family nature of the show -- "rule 1: the doctor lies" haha. cute line. cute guy. I guess that makes it okay, then?). The Doctor is consistent in character, but not in tone.

But I would disagree with the "he's not a hero" part. He's exactly the hero he's always been. He peddles the morality he's always peddled in the modern series. But just not with the veneer of a young man vworrrp-ing between pranks.

I also think it's neat at least one of the episodes (Moon) was penned for Smith's version of the Doctor.

[Polk5440]

So Clara had kind of a wild-eyed look when she suddenly decided to stay with the Doctor.  Kind of like she is addicted and staying gave her a high. 

That's what I got out of it, too.

[Voltaire]

Galzria, how much of the First Doctor have you watched? I ask this because many people watch "An Unearthly Child," for historical purposes, and don't watch much else with 1 in it. And the show was still finding its footing, including the Doctor, who almost straight-up murders someone just to escape from captivity. However, this is wildly inaccurate as a representation of who the First Doctor would quickly become, a mischievous, excitable old man who delighted in adventure (and would frequently argue with his companions, sure, but there was so much more than that).

Plus, the truly big Hartnell tantrum I remember (I'm on Season...3? I think? And remember, the show was serialized, this is quite far into the show at this point) is when Ian and Barbara leave, and it was heartbreaking, because he was clearly using the excuse that (spoilers for 50 year old TV here) the Dalek ship was unsafe as an excuse to try to keep his friends from leaving him.

Though he did straight-up abandon his granddaughter in a post-apocalyptic Earth. The man wasn't a saint. 

[Voltaire]

td;dr version of my argument: The 1st Doctor has warmth. The 12th Doctor is cold. Both are cranky old(er) men, but they are not similar.

[Galzria]

Galzria, how much of the First Doctor have you watched? I ask this because many people watch "An Unearthly Child," for historical purposes, and don't watch much else with 1 in it. And the show was still finding its footing, including the Doctor, who almost straight-up murders someone just to escape from captivity. However, this is wildly inaccurate as a representation of who the First Doctor would quickly become, a mischievous, excitable old man who delighted in adventure (and would frequently argue with his companions, sure, but there was so much more than that).

Plus, the truly big Hartnell tantrum I remember (I'm on Season...3? I think? And remember, the show was serialized, this is quite far into the show at this point) is when Ian and Barbara leave, and it was heartbreaking, because he was clearly using the excuse that (spoilers for 50 year old TV here) the Dalek ship was unsafe as an excuse to try to keep his friends from leaving him.

Though he did straight-up abandon his granddaughter in a post-apocalyptic Earth. The man wasn't a saint. 

I've watched every serial and episode, and have the audio for  all the episodes that were destroyed (yes, it still exists).

[Galzria]

I actually strongly prefer this version to any we've had since the reboot. Reminds me of Hartnell - a crotchety, sulky, brooding, unhappy, and generally unlikable old man. He's not a hero, and he doesn't try to / pretend to be.

Easily my favorite version of the modern doctors, too. I love the monologues, the professorial questions, the fact that he has trouble distinguishing people's ages (I feel for him), and the fact there is no sugar-coating. He doesn't pretend or joke about his necessary lies anymore (this bothered me given the family nature of the show -- "rule 1: the doctor lies" haha. cute line. cute guy. I guess that makes it okay, then?). The Doctor is consistent in character, but not in tone.

But I would disagree with the "he's not a hero" part. He's exactly the hero he's always been. He peddles the morality he's always peddled in the modern series. But just not with the veneer of a young man vworrrp-ing between pranks.

I also think it's neat at least one of the episodes (Moon) was penned for Smith's version of the Doctor.

That's true. When I say he's "not a hero", I was referring more to "not being a cuddly and loveable guy who always saves the world".  You're right though that he's still him - still getting the job done.

[Galzria]

I mean, to put my feelings most bluntly:

For much of Smith's run, I recorded and watched each episode out of love for the show. I rarely ever couldn't wait with anticipation for Saturday to come.

Here it's very much the opposite. Each Saturday can't come soon enough. I just want to know/see what happens with this Doctor next. Sure, not all of the stories have been crackers, and one or two have felt way off the mark - but even when that's the case, I've felt let down by the story, not the characters.

Some of Tenant had me feeling this way. Much of Eccleston did as well. Smith was simply to... childish for my tastes, and I much much much prefer this mature, if at times seemingly distant/cold/unlikable Doctor. He's simply 1000x more compelling.

[jsh357]

I mean, to put my feelings most bluntly:

For much of Smith's run, I recorded and watched each episode out of love for the show. I rarely ever couldn't wait with anticipation for Saturday to come.

Here it's very much the opposite. Each Saturday can't come soon enough. I just want to know/see what happens with this Doctor next. Sure, not all of the stories have been crackers, and one or two have felt way off the mark - but even when that's the case, I've felt let down by the story, not the characters.

Some of Tenant had me feeling this way. Much of Eccleston did as well. Smith was simply to... childish for my tastes, and I much much much prefer this mature, if at times seemingly distant/cold/unlikable Doctor. He's simply 1000x more compelling.

This is basically how I felt, though my problems with Smith were more on the stories than Smith himself.

[Voltaire]

Forest of the Night was bad, but I enjoyed it anyway, which makes me happy - the previous bad episodes this season weren't fun. Of course I loved the Doctor's "This is my planet too," but that just made "Kill the Moon" even worse - it means they made an explicit choice for the Doctor to go on that "arc", and it's completely unbelievable that he would have to take such a "journey" to understand that Earth and humans mean a lot to him.

And my goodness, loved Dark Water. The show has dealt with serious issues before, but usually not in a "mature" fashion, and that's what I thought we got with this episode. Absolutely not what I was expecting, but stunning. Having Clara's defiant stand at the start turn out to be a dream was extremely cheap, but it was magnificent anyway. (The entire time she was throwing away keys, I was expecting the Doctor to let her toss all of them, then say "You've forgotten one thing," and snap his fingers to open the doors.)

Very happy that Missy is a Time Lady, and completely fine with her being the Master. The only part of it I don't like is her earlier-episode comments that the Doctor is her "boyfriend" and her kissing the Doctor - look, if you're going to do Doctor/Master slash, have the guts to do it when the Master is still male. Waiting until she's conveniently female is grating, and more "Moffat being Moffat". That is, if they even go down that road. I have hope that these comments were just Mistress-esque madness and won't be dwelt on, which would be for the best.

Really looking forward to the finale, and it's been awhile since I've been able to say that! 

[Voltaire]

Oh, I forgot to comment on "Flatline." Wonderful. 7 or 8 out of 10, good episode. The season is ending strong, thank goodness!

[Elanchana]

Very happy that Missy is a Time Lady, and completely fine with her being the Master. The only part of it I don't like is her earlier-episode comments that the Doctor is her "boyfriend" and her kissing the Doctor - look, if you're going to do Doctor/Master slash, have the guts to do it when the Master is still male. Waiting until she's conveniently female is grating, and more "Moffat being Moffat". That is, if they even go down that road. I have hope that these comments were just Mistress-esque madness and won't be dwelt on, which would be for the best.

YES. THIS. YES YES YES. On the one hand, I'm REALLY happy that we finally have a legit female Gallifreyan/Time Lady again and that there's been a male-to-female regeneration, but on the other, is Moffat seriously canonizing Doctor/Master now just because the Master is a woman? That just screams homophobia AND misogyny. Oh sure he'll make a lesbian couple as background characters and such but when it actually "matters", nope, no non-straights allowed. Like you, the least I can hope is that the story doesn't actually dwell on it. Also, I really want to know what the person in question's plans are...

Not to mention, some of the lines in this episode reminded me a LOT of a scene from my favorite webseries, Chronicles of Syntax. Spooky much? (the beginning is timestamped in the link - watch until at least 14:43 to get the connection)

[Kuildeous]

Oh, I forgot to comment on "Flatline." Wonderful. 7 or 8 out of 10, good episode. The season is ending strong, thank goodness!

I liked Flatline too. Wasn't too thrilled with the forest one. It's sad that the season is so hit and miss, but I'm enjoying the hits.

I have not seen the latest because I heard it's a two-parter. Suspense is for suckers. I'll watch it when I get part 2 on the DVR as well.

[Polk5440]

I have not seen the latest because I heard it's a two-parter. Suspense is for suckers. I'll watch it when I get part 2 on the DVR as well.

Same! 

[Kirian]

Let's see, my ratings:

Deep Breath - 7.  Not amazing, but pretty good, better than Christmas Invasion for a new Doctor.
Into the Dalek - 5.  Good acting, OK plot, awful effects.
Robot of Sherwood - A solid 0.  WTF.*
Listen - 10.  Some weird crazy slingshot upward from the previous episode.
Time Heist - 9.  Not perfect, but a better-than-solid episode.
Caretaker - 4.  You know, the acting this season is really top-notch, even from the minor players.**
Kill the Moon - 1.  Really great acting.  The last shouting match saves this from a zero.
Mummy - 7.  OK, see, we could have had stories like this all along, where have the writers been?
Flatline - 7.  Well, someone was able to get Capaldi's subtle humor done well in the script.
Forest - 8.  The first ending was a bit cheesy, and the second ending was just plain weird, but the episode as a whole was great.

I also haven't yet watched Dark Water, though I'm looking forward to it.

*So I'm looking through an episode list, looking at the writers, and thinking "Why the fuck are they still letting Mark Gatiss write for the show?"
**Speaking of writers, this one was written by the same person who wrote The Lodger and Closing Time.  I guess he didn't get the memo that Capaldi's doctor just wasn't going to be quite as humorous as Smith's?

[Galzria]

I really wanted to like Forest. I can't say anything -really- negative about it even. But on 4 attempts to watch it, I've fallen asleep 4 times midway through. I've managed to piece together the story, and I've read full synopsis write-ups, but I just cannot seem to care about what's going on.

[Elanchana]

I personally thought Flatline was the strongest episode writing-wise of the season, but the horror element crossed a line with me. I had to remember how to move after watching it.

[werothegreat]

Let's see, my ratings:

Deep Breath - 7.  Not amazing, but pretty good, better than Christmas Invasion for a new Doctor.
Into the Dalek - 5.  Good acting, OK plot, awful effects.
Robot of Sherwood - A solid 0.  WTF.*
Listen - 10.  Some weird crazy slingshot upward from the previous episode.
Time Heist - 9.  Not perfect, but a better-than-solid episode.
Caretaker - 4.  You know, the acting this season is really top-notch, even from the minor players.**
Kill the Moon - 1.  Really great acting.  The last shouting match saves this from a zero.
Mummy - 7.  OK, see, we could have had stories like this all along, where have the writers been?
Flatline - 7.  Well, someone was able to get Capaldi's subtle humor done well in the script.
Forest - 8.  The first ending was a bit cheesy, and the second ending was just plain weird, but the episode as a whole was great.

I also haven't yet watched Dark Water, though I'm looking forward to it.

*So I'm looking through an episode list, looking at the writers, and thinking "Why the fuck are they still letting Mark Gatiss write for the show?"
**Speaking of writers, this one was written by the same person who wrote The Lodger and Closing Time.  I guess he didn't get the memo that Capaldi's doctor just wasn't going to be quite as humorous as Smith's?

I saw Deep Breath in theatres, and honestly was kind of bored the whole time.  I'm just so bothered by the fact that Lizard-bian has EYELASHES.  Reptiles do not have eyelashes!

With regards to the rest of the season:
Into the Dalek - Eh.  Alright.
Sherwood - I actually very much enjoyed Capaldi and Robin Hood bickering, thank you! 
Listen - Good episode, with some really bizarre implications with side characters, which is to be expected
Time Heist - Nicely done.
Caretaker - I have to keep reminding myself what actually happened in this episode.  Pink and Clara getting pissy at each other, rah, rah, who cares.
Kill the Moon - dull, dull, THAT MAKES NO PHYSICAL SENSE, oooOOOoooo Clara's leaving!  Interesting.
Mummy - Also nicely done.
Flatline - More, please.
Forest - A little sentimental, and I really don't understand how ANYONE could possibly pass up seeing a solar flare hit Earth from orbit (dafuq, people), but good Doctor being Doctor moments.
Dark Water - WHY ISN'T "DEATH IN HEAVEN" RELEASED YET

[Tables]

Kill the Moon managed to be I feel very atypical for Doctor Who. Usually the plot is interesting, but the writing holds it back. With KtM, the episode has some excellent dialogue and writing, but the plot managed to be ridiculous in a bad sort of way.

Dark Water was great though.

[Kirian]

http://www.cracked.com/blog/how-dr.-who-became-my-religion/

An interesting if somewhat old article.

----

So I finally watched Dark Water.  And... I dunno.  It wasn't bad, it just didn't scream "holy fuck what happens next week?!" the way, say, The Pandorica Opens or Turn Left did. The Master again, Cybermen again, bah. I guess perhaps I was assuming this season's grand manipulator might be someone different (see: all of Matt Smith's run.)

[Asper]

Having a Doctor that's hard to like (in-universe) is refreshing, i think. I liked Tennant and Smith a lot, but i'm glad they decided to have a jerk for a change.

[Asper]

So I finally watched Dark Water.  And... I dunno.  It wasn't bad, it just didn't scream "holy fuck what happens next week?!" the way, say, The Pandorica Opens or Turn Left did. The Master again, Cybermen again, bah. I guess perhaps I was assuming this season's grand manipulator might be someone different (see: all of Matt Smith's run.)

A matter of taste. Personally i am happy whenever motives from the old series show up. I was very sad with how Matt Smith's series treated the Daleks for example, while Capaldi's 2nd episode reminded me of Ecclestone's "Dalek" - which i liked a lot. And Smith's "the Doctor will die" story arc was one of the most predictable ones i ever saw in the series, especially how he cheats death in the end...

[Joseph2302]

Season finale tonight, in the UK at least. Looking forward to it