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[Teproc]

ash, are you going to make a more detailed case against pace? if not, why not?

I would if I felt anyone would listen.  But they won't.

Do you have any thoughts on what I suggested above (empowering Lannister) ?

[ashersky]

So we'Re choosing lannister instead of stark?

I've only read book 1 and watched seasons 1 and 2, but this seems akin to choosing Voldemort over Potter.

You haven't read closely enough then, in that the series doesn't really have a good faction and a bad faction. There are good guys and bad guys for sure, but most people (including most Lannisters and Starks) are just in some sort of a grey area.

Regardless, I don't know that we've decided on anything yet, this is just what I'm suggesting.

Just because it isn't dumbed down for four-year olds like HP doesn't mean there aren't clearly good/evil biases built into the characters.  Willful incest was a choice, not a requirement, for example.  Stoicly heroic Jon clearly identifies with Stark.  Every surprise death for effect (of which there are many) are there to shock the reader, and killing bad guys is never a shock.

I've not read past book one given all that, so things could have changed, of course.  I'm probably tainted by the show, which clearly wanted some heroes (Jon, Robb, the boy-girl).

But really, other than Tyrion (who is Snape), the Lannisters are supposed to be despicable.

[ashersky]

ash, are you going to make a more detailed case against pace? if not, why not?

I would if I felt anyone would listen.  But they won't.

Do you have any thoughts on what I suggested above (empowering Lannister) ?

I've been giving them.

To spell it out, though: t-e-r-r-i-b-l-e.

[Teproc]

ash, are you going to make a more detailed case against pace? if not, why not?

I would if I felt anyone would listen.  But they won't.

Do you have any thoughts on what I suggested above (empowering Lannister) ?

I've been giving them.

You really haven't.

[silverspawn]

actually, both tywin and jaimie (i have no idea how to spelll them, so apologies) are given a lot more depth and sympathetic moments in season 3. which is amazing. GoT is so good *sigh*

[ashersky]

ash, are you going to make a more detailed case against pace? if not, why not?

I would if I felt anyone would listen.  But they won't.

Do you have any thoughts on what I suggested above (empowering Lannister) ?

I've been giving them.

You really haven't.

We are literally having the conversation right now.  You and I.  The two of us.  How can you say this?

[ashersky]

actually, both tywin and jaimie (i have no idea how to spelll them, so apologies) are given a lot more depth and sympathetic moments in season 3. which is amazing. GoT is so good *sigh*

I was sad Jason Momoa didn't last.

[Teproc]

ash, are you going to make a more detailed case against pace? if not, why not?

I would if I felt anyone would listen.  But they won't.

Do you have any thoughts on what I suggested above (empowering Lannister) ?

I've been giving them.

You really haven't.

We are literally having the conversation right now.  You and I.  The two of us.  How can you say this?

You've only said my plan was terrible... that's not enough. Explain why, and what we can do better.

[ashersky]

So we'Re choosing lannister instead of stark?

I've only read book 1 and watched seasons 1 and 2, but this seems akin to choosing Voldemort over Potter.

So we'Re choosing lannister instead of stark?

I've only read book 1 and watched seasons 1 and 2, but this seems akin to choosing Voldemort over Potter.

You haven't read closely enough then, in that the series doesn't really have a good faction and a bad faction. There are good guys and bad guys for sure, but most people (including most Lannisters and Starks) are just in some sort of a grey area.

Regardless, I don't know that we've decided on anything yet, this is just what I'm suggesting.

Just because it isn't dumbed down for four-year olds like HP doesn't mean there aren't clearly good/evil biases built into the characters.  Willful incest was a choice, not a requirement, for example.  Stoicly heroic Jon clearly identifies with Stark.  Every surprise death for effect (of which there are many) are there to shock the reader, and killing bad guys is never a shock.

I've not read past book one given all that, so things could have changed, of course.  I'm probably tainted by the show, which clearly wanted some heroes (Jon, Robb, the boy-girl).

But really, other than Tyrion (who is Snape), the Lannisters are supposed to be despicable.

[Teproc]

Are you serious right now ? I don't want to speak in riddles ash. You want to empower Stark is what you're saying ? Why ? What do you have to say to the argument that if we empower Stark we can't go back, which is not the case with Lannister ?

[ashersky]

Are you serious right now ? I don't want to speak in riddles ash. You want to empower Stark is what you're saying ? Why ? What do you have to say to the argument that if we empower Stark we can't go back, which is not the case with Lannister ?

You are correct that if Stark is empowered, the Lannister power is gone forever.
I don't really care if we empower Stark's power.  Seems unnecessary to me.

[Teproc]

So what, you think we shouldn't do anything with the house powers ? Nothing ?

Who are you and what have you done with ash ?

[ashersky]

You know what I really think?

All players go houseless and we play the game.  That's a viable option, you know.  It seems like one house feels they are anti-town already.

What's to say a house isn't a faction?  Lannisters could be mafia with a QT anyone can join.

So many things we (and Faust) could dream up.

So by all means, keep up this discussion.  All it serves to do is erode my strong town read on you.

[Witherweaver]

So we'Re choosing lannister instead of stark?

I've only read book 1 and watched seasons 1 and 2, but this seems akin to choosing Voldemort over Potter.

You haven't read closely enough then, in that the series doesn't really have a good faction and a bad faction. There are good guys and bad guys for sure, but most people (including most Lannisters and Starks) are just in some sort of a grey area.

Regardless, I don't know that we've decided on anything yet, this is just what I'm suggesting.

Just because it isn't dumbed down for four-year olds like HP doesn't mean there aren't clearly good/evil biases built into the characters.  Willful incest was a choice, not a requirement, for example.  Stoicly heroic Jon clearly identifies with Stark.  Every surprise death for effect (of which there are many) are there to shock the reader, and killing bad guys is never a shock.

I've not read past book one given all that, so things could have changed, of course.  I'm probably tainted by the show, which clearly wanted some heroes (Jon, Robb, the boy-girl).

But really, other than Tyrion (who is Snape), the Lannisters are supposed to be despicable.

Nah, Jaime is a clear anti-hero.  Or redeemed hero. 

[Teproc]

Ok, seriously now, why has yuma stolen ash's account ?

When do you ever say "we play the game" as if not exploiting the setup was the best way of playing the game ?

And do you realize how insanely stupid your suggestion that mafia have an open QT is ? First of all, house QTs reset whenever someone gets into them, second of all, what ?  This is not a bastard game you know.

I have no idea how to react to this. You can be anti-town sometimes, but not like this. Do you have anything to contribute to this game aside from "pacovf is obvscum and the setup doesn't matter" ?

[ashersky]

All this WW is an IC talk is scummy.  Here's what happened:

Player 1: my flavor name is Eevee!
Player 2: hey, hold up, MY flavor name is Eevee!  Vote: Player 1!
Mod: sorry guts mod error on the flavor names, which, by the way, as pointed out before the game, has no relation to alignment.
Everyone:  yay!  Player 2 is an accidental IC!

Tell me that makes any sense. 

[Teproc]

Ok, civility pledge and all that, I'm logging off, sorry.

[ashersky]

Ok, seriously now, why has yuma stolen ash's account ?

When do you ever say "we play the game" as if not exploiting the setup was the best way of playing the game ?

And do you realize how insanely stupid your suggestion that mafia have an open QT is ? First of all, house QTs reset whenever someone gets into them, second of all, what ?  This is not a bastard game you know.

I have no idea how to react to this. You can be anti-town sometimes, but not like this. Do you have anything to contribute to this game aside from "pacovf is obvscum and the setup doesn't matter" ?

I'm pretty sure dissolving all four houses on N1 is exploiting the setup.

Also, mafia would have a factional QT and a house QT.  It's day chat plus manipulative.  You know, like "hey we need someone from every house to join us!"  Maybe once you join, you can't leave?

[Witherweaver]

All this WW is an IC talk is scummy.  Here's what happened:

Player 1: my flavor name is Eevee!
Player 2: hey, hold up, MY flavor name is Eevee!  Vote: Player 1!
Mod: sorry guts mod error on the flavor names, which, by the way, as pointed out before the game, has no relation to alignment.
Everyone:  yay!  Player 2 is an accidental IC!

Tell me that makes any sense.

The argument is that I would have reacted differently if I had been scum.  First, if both Teproc and I were scum, we probably would have noted our conflicted flavor names in our scum QT.  If I'm scum and Teproc is town, then I know Teproc is telling the truth, so my first reaction would be that mod made a mistake, or that my flavor name is not safe to claim, or something.  Anyway I'm probably going to the mod directly in that situation instead of calling out Teproc.

[silverspawn]

Do you want to make us houseless because you think it's the best thing to do for town, or for another reason?

[Witherweaver]

Leaving Houses is something we could do.  But, not such a great plan.  I mean.. scum can just not leave the House and be the only one left that can use the power.

[Witherweaver]

You know what I really think?

All players go houseless and we play the game.  That's a viable option, you know.  It seems like one house feels they are anti-town already.

What's to say a house isn't a faction?  Lannisters could be mafia with a QT anyone can join.

So many things we (and Faust) could dream up.

So by all means, keep up this discussion.  All it serves to do is erode my strong town read on you.

Flavor names <=> Initial House Members, and therefore the initial house composition cannot imply a faction.

Lannisters aren't scum here.

[silverspawn]

unrelated, I am getting a strong town read on Teproc because of this discussion. It went clearly beyond the game, and I think it's much more likely for a town to be willing to do that.

[Witherweaver]

I think this is town Teproc.

[pacovf]

I simply can't understand what Ash is doing here. It's super anti-town. He's also misunderstanding the setup once more.

Teproc, I suggest you heed your own advice and ignore Ash for the time being.

And the discussion about morality in aSoIaF is interesting and all, but we've got a thread for that, and here it's derailing the discussion.