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[2.71828.....]

Can we lynch RR now for that absurd fake hammer?

[Haddock]

Can we lynch RR now for that absurd fake hammer?

No.

That just wasnt scummy, like at all.

Noone thought he was hammering, it was a joke in response to some other nonsense. Now is not the time for a bad policy lynch.

That said, my townread on RR is beginning to erode slightly.

[yuma]

Can we lynch RR now for that absurd fake hammer?

I guess I haven't heard why that was scummy. Absurd sure... but not sure why it is scummy...

[Haddock]

Can we lynch RR now for that absurd fake hammer?

I guess I haven't heard why that was scummy. Absurd sure... but not sure why it is scummy...

Easy. It isn't.

[Teproc]

Can we lynch RR now for that absurd fake hammer?

The absurdity is that you even want to lynch him for it...

[Teproc]

EgorK's VT claim... I'm still thinking about it. Being less in touch with f.ds means I'm not sure if scum!EgorK can expect to get away with it. It's the non-obvious play, but we've been giving town!cred for non-obvious claims (see : WW), so...

I also don't particularly like the alternative wagon forming for some reason. Could do e, as always.

[Teproc]

Can we lynch RR now for that absurd fake hammer?

I guess I haven't heard why that was scummy. Absurd sure... but not sure why it is scummy...

It's not even absurd... if EgorK had thought he was hammered, there could have been some interesting material there. I doubt that's what RR was trying to do, but  still.

[2.71828.....]

EgorK's VT claim... I'm still thinking about it. Being less in touch with f.ds means I'm not sure if scum!EgorK can expect to get away with it. It's the non-obvious play, but we've been giving town!cred for non-obvious claims (see : WW), so...

I also don't particularly like the alternative wagon forming for some reason. Could do e, as always.

I don't really see alternative wagons. Sure, RR has 2 votes, but that isn't happening. I have a vote, but that isn't happening.

[Teproc]

EgorK's VT claim... I'm still thinking about it. Being less in touch with f.ds means I'm not sure if scum!EgorK can expect to get away with it. It's the non-obvious play, but we've been giving town!cred for non-obvious claims (see : WW), so...

I also don't particularly like the alternative wagon forming for some reason. Could do e, as always.

I don't really see alternative wagons. Sure, RR has 2 votes, but that isn't happening. I have a vote, but that isn't happening.

I was referring to the "Teproc is scum" nonsense.

[Haddock]

There isn't really a wagon on anyone on any more.   I think Egor now has the most votes with 3. (PPE right I get you)



Right now I could lynch e, Hydrad or WW, or go back to Egor.

yuma, I'm not completely and utterly closed-minded re. Teproc, can you explain to me the case?  (more than just gut would of course be nice)

[Teproc]

Have we had instances of town letting claimed VTs at L-1 live recently ?

[yuma]

yuma, I'm not completely and utterly closed-minded re. Teproc, can you explain to me the case?  (more than just gut would of course be nice)

Sure let me put something together. I have kinda avoided doing that just because it is hard (and who wants to do hard thing?) But I have a few minutes... so here we go...

[2.71828.....]

Have we had instances of town letting claimed VTs at L-1 live recently ?

I don't know that we have let anyone at l-1 live recently

[Teproc]

Have we had instances of town letting claimed VTs at L-1 live recently ?

I don't know that we have let anyone at l-1 live recently

Right, L-1 is a fleeting thing these days.

Ok, I think I'm siding with yuma re: Egork's VT claim. Not a sure thing, but he is more likely to claim PR than not.

vote: e

[2.71828.....]

I totally disagree with the analysis. I firmly believe egork claims vt here as scum. Fakeclaims are hard. I know egork has been more active recently than in games in ages past, but my experience sharing a scum qt with him makes me think he doesn't prepare a fakeclaim, and falls back on vt.

All this in depth analysis is great, but I think it is probably more a question between two choices

1) did he prepare a fake claim
2) did he not prepare a fake claim

I think he would not have, so vt is totally expected from scum!egork

[Witherweaver]

I'm for Teproc or e.

[yuma]

So yeah... 352 posts. And i'll be honest here... I am going into this looking to find solid reasons for why I have a gut read on Teproc. So this is biased. Take it for what it is. I am trying to be open to moments where he is townie as well, but bias does play a factor.

I guess the main thing I am seeing from all of these posts is that it is in general just kinda hard to get a solid read from any of his posts one way or the other. That to an extent is stereotypical Teproc. Cool headed, even tilted, isn't going to do anything to get anyone really overly crazy to lynch him.

That said, I think he fits the mold for being a scum who is around but not creating controversy.

One thing I am noticing a lot of in rereading is that he is pretty much constantly asking people for meta advice on other players. This is because he has been semi-absent and hasn't been around, but what I am more intrigued by is how meta focused he has been, regardless of what he remembers. To an extent that looks more like he could be looking for deviations in behavior than he is in actual scummy play.

actually looked at stuff from when I left -- oops -- but the policy vote that wasn't a a policy vote seemed uncharacteristic and I could see as scummy, but I didn't really look at all the details of that, just kinda skimmed through that section and saw the bold vote parts...

finds 2.7 scummy for the same thing he is doing "measured, calculated play"

I think he fits the bill for how I described how mafia would react to the claims pretty well. Granted when I responded to that question I was voting for Teproc and that may have played a part, but I still think what I said stands that scum would take the middle of the road approach and teproc did.

and I don't know if there is really anything else. It is a gut read. The stuff above is what I found to "back-up" that gut read and as I said comes with a bias. I didn't see anything that screamed "town" read, but I wasn't looking super closely and was kinda skimming... I have a meeting coming up in a few minutes that I should be getting to so didn't have as much time as I thought I would.

[yuma]

1) did he prepare a fake claim
2) did he not prepare a fake claim

I think he would not have, so vt is totally expected from scum!egork

That is a fair point. My one concern to that point is something that ash states in the setup:

Flavor matters.  Non-Heroes will receive adequate information to safely claim.  That said, no flavor knowledge is required to play this game.

actually that isn't what I thought it said. Looks like ash is just talking about flavor in terms of claims. I thought that maybe scum would have more information on potential roles to claim?

But having a safe flavor claim is part of the fake claiming process and if that is already started then maybe he is more likely to think up a safe fake role claim that goes along with the fake flavor claim?

[Teproc]

We've always differed on the issue of meta, yuma. I've always based most on my reads on meta, and I don't believe "really scummy things" exist in a vacuum. They only exist in the context of a given meta.

As for my reaction to the claims : I didn't take a "middle of the road" approach. I spent a lot of time trying to find WW scummy, and couldn't. Then I thought maybe my initial instinct on faust (once he claimed) was wrong, and couldn't.

[Roadrunner7671]

Can we lynch RR now for that absurd fake hammer?

No. I was hoping people (anyone, not only Egor) would think it was real. I also want to see how people react to it after it's a confirmed fake.
PPE

[faust]

The whole Egor wagon is just bizarre. First it ramps up without anyone presenting something even resembling a case, it's just bogus PoE. Then he makes a claim that should hardly influence your reads at all (if anything, I'm with e: Egor is likely to claim VT as scum), and everyone leaves the wagon.

So what does it mean? I think there is scum on that wagon. Scum who wanted the claim and now prefer to get a PR mislynched. The wagon is:

Haddock, yuma, Teproc, Hydrad, iguana

Cool, it features the two players I just started to have a town read on. Hydrad I think does not play that strategically as scum. Everyone else here I can see doing this. iguana hasn't weighed in yet I believe, so meh. Oh boy.

Vote: Haddock

[Teproc]

Faust, why it PoE "bogus" ? Because you don't agree with it I suppose.

Well, please note that your speculation about what scum would do here are bogus.

[Teproc]

Like,scum ramping up wagons on people to out PRs is a paranoid town fantasy at best, never seen it really done.

[faust]

Faust, why it PoE "bogus" ? Because you don't agree with it I suppose.

Well, please note that your speculation about what scum would do here are bogus.

I don't believe in a PoE that leaves you with only 2 people on day 2. It means you have been giving out town reads too easily.

[faust]

Like,scum ramping up wagons on people to out PRs is a paranoid town fantasy at best, never seen it really done.

I'm not saying it was the plan all along. But if I as scum see a VT claim, I'll definitely think "well, I'd prefer to keep this one alive".