Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Witherweaver]

My off wagon idea is quickly deteriorating. 

[Teproc]

I'm townish on Ampharos now.

Great, that's step 1. Step 2 is voting for faust. There are other acceptable options, I'll let you try and find them by yourself.

[Witherweaver]

I'm townish on Ampharos now.

Great, that's step 1. Step 2 is voting for faust. There are other acceptable options, I'll let you try and find them by yourself.

I'm holding out for a derphammer opportunity. 

[Teproc]

I'm townish on Ampharos now.

Great, that's step 1. Step 2 is voting for faust. There are other acceptable options, I'll let you try and find them by yourself.

I'm holding out for a derphammer opportunity. 

Seriously though, shouldn't you be voting ?

[Witherweaver]

Maaaaaaybe.

[Ampharos]

I知 actually okay with you voting me here - I think if I was observing myself without knowing my role, I壇 probably be somewhat suspicious of myself.  I need something to keep me honest and prevent me from getting lazy like I might do if I知 cleared as town.

So you think that your play is scummy, why do you then play that way?

This is the type of comment I was referring to in point 2 of my posts about 10 back (y no post counts in Post Reply mode, sad day). 

Like, do you really want to know the answer?  I'm glad to tell you but really have no idea what bearing it has on the actual game.

[faust]

No, he's town. I said why, but I can say again if you need me to.

I went back and read it, and I you know, I initially had him marked on my spreadsheet as town for that reason.  Emotional outbursts tend to be town indicators. 

However. 

faust knows that, I'm sure.  He could have faked it for town cred, or, and more likely in my opinion, he was being serious about being frustrated and was venting, regardless of his alignment.  It was more an "attack" on his meta play, and that's annoying regardless of your role.

All things said:
1. faust is smart enough to have faked that, or could be legit upset because it was an attack on meta.  Either of these being true is enough for me to not give town cred for that.
2. Something has felt off all game about faust.  I've only played in one game with him, but it was where he was a mafia who didn't know his other members.  It was the ultimate puzzle to figure out, and he seemed really excited and engaged to solve it.  To me, that seems like someone who would be excited about being town, going full bloodhound mode, hunting down the baddies.  I get being like that, because I am often like that.  So that begs the question, why isn't faust like that this game?  He looks like town if you just glance over what he's saying, but a lot of it seems to me to be more distractionary points than ones that are legit cases/pursuit of baddies.  To me, it doesn't line up from the faust I know.
3. Why hasn't this wagon taken off?  It's not like other wagons, where there are lots of people saying "oh I'm not voting for him because x,y,z".  People just aren't saying anything other than off-hand "oh he just seems town", if we even get that.

So you're comparing me to a game where I was scum, see that I'm different here, and conclude that I must be scum?

Of course that game where I was a Traitor I needed to play differently. I needed to be this super town person. I accidentally lynched my partner D1, and my other partner soon had a guilty result on him. So it all came down to me, and I needed to put some serious effort in to win. It was thrilling, it was fun, but it also was exhausting. So sorry if I'm not as present.

And about 3 - I think at least Haddock explicitly stated why he doesn't like my wagon. So did RR, whether you like his reason or not. Who are these people who say "he just seems like town"? I don't think they exist.

PPE 10. Wow.

[faust]

I知 actually okay with you voting me here - I think if I was observing myself without knowing my role, I壇 probably be somewhat suspicious of myself.  I need something to keep me honest and prevent me from getting lazy like I might do if I知 cleared as town.

So you think that your play is scummy, why do you then play that way?

This is the type of comment I was referring to in point 2 of my posts about 10 back (y no post counts in Post Reply mode, sad day). 

Like, do you really want to know the answer?  I'm glad to tell you but really have no idea what bearing it has on the actual game.

Yes, I do.

[Teproc]

3. Why hasn't this wagon taken off?  It's not like other wagons, where there are lots of people saying "oh I'm not voting for him because x,y,z".  People just aren't saying anything other than off-hand "oh he just seems town", if we even get that.

And about 3 - I think at least Haddock explicitly stated why he doesn't like my wagon. So did RR, whether you like his reason or not. Who are these people who say "he just seems like town"? I don't think they exist.
[/quote]

FWIW, Ampharos cites me as agreeing with him on 3, which is only half-true. I'm saying there is general silence w/ regards to you (for a recent example, see WW just above), which is slightly different. Haddock was, until RR just a few minutes ago, the only one off-wagon who had taken a stance.

[Teproc]

Hrrrm. First part is an Ampharos quote, second part is a faust quote.

[Ampharos]

No, he's town. I said why, but I can say again if you need me to.

I went back and read it, and I you know, I initially had him marked on my spreadsheet as town for that reason.  Emotional outbursts tend to be town indicators. 

However. 

faust knows that, I'm sure.  He could have faked it for town cred, or, and more likely in my opinion, he was being serious about being frustrated and was venting, regardless of his alignment.  It was more an "attack" on his meta play, and that's annoying regardless of your role.

All things said:
1. faust is smart enough to have faked that, or could be legit upset because it was an attack on meta.  Either of these being true is enough for me to not give town cred for that.
2. Something has felt off all game about faust.  I've only played in one game with him, but it was where he was a mafia who didn't know his other members.  It was the ultimate puzzle to figure out, and he seemed really excited and engaged to solve it.  To me, that seems like someone who would be excited about being town, going full bloodhound mode, hunting down the baddies.  I get being like that, because I am often like that.  So that begs the question, why isn't faust like that this game?  He looks like town if you just glance over what he's saying, but a lot of it seems to me to be more distractionary points than ones that are legit cases/pursuit of baddies.  To me, it doesn't line up from the faust I know.
3. Why hasn't this wagon taken off?  It's not like other wagons, where there are lots of people saying "oh I'm not voting for him because x,y,z".  People just aren't saying anything other than off-hand "oh he just seems town", if we even get that.

So you're comparing me to a game where I was scum, see that I'm different here, and conclude that I must be scum?

Of course that game where I was a Traitor I needed to play differently. I needed to be this super town person. I accidentally lynched my partner D1, and my other partner soon had a guilty result on him. So it all came down to me, and I needed to put some serious effort in to win. It was thrilling, it was fun, but it also was exhausting. So sorry if I'm not as present.

And about 3 - I think at least Haddock explicitly stated why he doesn't like my wagon. So did RR, whether you like his reason or not. Who are these people who say "he just seems like town"? I don't think they exist.

PPE 10. Wow.

Yes, because your scum role demanded play more like a town role.  I think it's fair to say that traitor plays more like town than it does scum. i.e. you are the uniformed, and must figure it out.

I get the exhausted thing; this game especially with its long days can be tiresome.  I will feel bad if you flip town and I've been barking up the wrong tree just because it needed a bit of a break from being super town tree. 

That said, I cannot shake the nagging feeling that I'm on to something, and I'm not getting what I need to dissuade me from that. It's up to the rest of the town to either pursue this or to steer away from it, because I might be past the point of return. 

Maybe I'm giving too little credit to those that said why they didn't like your wagon.  I'll go read Haddock's.

[Ampharos]

I知 actually okay with you voting me here - I think if I was observing myself without knowing my role, I壇 probably be somewhat suspicious of myself.  I need something to keep me honest and prevent me from getting lazy like I might do if I知 cleared as town.

So you think that your play is scummy, why do you then play that way?

This is the type of comment I was referring to in point 2 of my posts about 10 back (y no post counts in Post Reply mode, sad day). 

Like, do you really want to know the answer?  I'm glad to tell you but really have no idea what bearing it has on the actual game.

Yes, I do.

I'd be nervous of my play because I keep drawing attention to the fact that I kind of play scummy.  It's like the Mr. Charles gambit from Inception. 

I don't know why my play is scummy in the first place.  Maybe it's because I go a bit aggressive, rather non-standard, tunneling, and largely ignoring in-depth logical debates, plus put a lot of stock into the "feel" of the game.  Many of these things are common tactics used by entry-level scum, and when you see a player you don't have much experience with, you see these traits and read them as scum.  Which you probably should.  Over time, they will become just "those things Ampharos does".  However, we have not had time to see me, and I would see myself, see those traits, and be suspicious, just like you.  The length of day 1 is probably why people are starting to see me as town.  You've had time to see this is how I play and it's been pretty consistent. 

Hope that explains it appropriately and does not distract from my wagon push at all.

[Witherweaver]

No, he's town. I said why, but I can say again if you need me to.

I went back and read it, and I you know, I initially had him marked on my spreadsheet as town for that reason.  Emotional outbursts tend to be town indicators. 

However. 

faust knows that, I'm sure.  He could have faked it for town cred, or, and more likely in my opinion, he was being serious about being frustrated and was venting, regardless of his alignment.  It was more an "attack" on his meta play, and that's annoying regardless of your role.

All things said:
1. faust is smart enough to have faked that, or could be legit upset because it was an attack on meta.  Either of these being true is enough for me to not give town cred for that.
2. Something has felt off all game about faust.  I've only played in one game with him, but it was where he was a mafia who didn't know his other members.  It was the ultimate puzzle to figure out, and he seemed really excited and engaged to solve it.  To me, that seems like someone who would be excited about being town, going full bloodhound mode, hunting down the baddies.  I get being like that, because I am often like that.  So that begs the question, why isn't faust like that this game?  He looks like town if you just glance over what he's saying, but a lot of it seems to me to be more distractionary points than ones that are legit cases/pursuit of baddies.  To me, it doesn't line up from the faust I know.
3. Why hasn't this wagon taken off?  It's not like other wagons, where there are lots of people saying "oh I'm not voting for him because x,y,z".  People just aren't saying anything other than off-hand "oh he just seems town", if we even get that.

So you're comparing me to a game where I was scum, see that I'm different here, and conclude that I must be scum?

Of course that game where I was a Traitor I needed to play differently. I needed to be this super town person. I accidentally lynched my partner D1, and my other partner soon had a guilty result on him. So it all came down to me, and I needed to put some serious effort in to win. It was thrilling, it was fun, but it also was exhausting. So sorry if I'm not as present.

And about 3 - I think at least Haddock explicitly stated why he doesn't like my wagon. So did RR, whether you like his reason or not. Who are these people who say "he just seems like town"? I don't think they exist.

PPE 10. Wow.

I think his point is that as Traitor, you had to figure everyone's alignment out.  As Town, you have to figure everyone's alignment out.  As regular Mafia, you know the alignments (modulo third parties).  It isn't as bad of a point as you make it out to be.

[Haddock]

e reread.
Again, no post by post stuff.  Just things that stood out.

This quote stuck out as really scummy to me:

Scums sure like the yuma lynch. Although the faust vote seems like town who isn't appreciative of yuma's current approach to the game.

He makes a post counting the number of posts from various players, shortly afterwards.  Uses it as a reason to find people scummy.  D1, I think that's scummy.

His behaviour re egor is quite mafia-partnery.  First claims he "doesn't like the egor lynch", without reason.  Then when more people start saying egor is scummy, egor suddenly goes into his lynch category.  It's like he's trying to deflect from egor, but doesn't want to appear to be doing so.  This is of course only if egor is scum, which he currently is to me, reread of egor will happen at some point.

He's more defensive of yuma than anyone else in the game.  He seems really really sure that yuma is town, way more confident than anyone else in the game.  Meh, confidence isn't inherently scummy.

Has he played with RR?  He several times pushes RR for classic RR plays.

Picky picky, is what he is a lot too.



Yeah.  There are worse lynches.

[yuma]

A man wants to vote for Teproc.

[Haddock]

A man wants to vote for Teproc.

[Witherweaver]

A man wants to vote for Teproc.

Really? 

[Roadrunner7671]

classic RR plays.

I am classic now?

[Teproc]

A man wants to vote for Teproc.

Valar morghulis.

[yuma]

A man wants to vote for Teproc.

Valar morghulis.

Valar dohaeris

But I am hesitant to do so because the same reasons I want to vote for Teproc are the same reasons I wanted to vote for ss.

[Teproc]

He's more defensive of yuma than anyone else in the game.  He seems really really sure that yuma is town, way more confident than anyone else in the game.  Meh, confidence isn't inherently scummy.

So... this is definitely confirmation bias talking on my part, but just putting it out there : scum tends to be more trusting of claims such as yuma's (ie more or less a named VT) than town. Because they know they're true, and aren't as incentivized to fight them than "real" PRs (investigative PRs especially). They also know it's in scum's best interest to fight the IC-fication of someone, but if they think it won't succeed, they tend to be way more trusting because they think they'll appear scummy if they fight it. And when it's a player like yuma, they figure he's going to be hard to lynch, so the best solution is to kill him at some point.

[Roadrunner7671]

A message for Amapharos:

Scum Faust probably would have continued to lead the town. The outburst should have been saved for a future game when he was town. Hanging up his hat in a game where he is scum would be a bad idea.

[Ampharos]

He's more defensive of yuma than anyone else in the game.  He seems really really sure that yuma is town, way more confident than anyone else in the game.  Meh, confidence isn't inherently scummy.

So... this is definitely confirmation bias talking on my part, but just putting it out there : scum tends to be more trusting of claims such as yuma's (ie more or less a named VT) than town. Because they know they're true, and aren't as incentivized to fight them than "real" PRs (investigative PRs especially). They also know it's in scum's best interest to fight the IC-fication of someone, but if they think it won't succeed, they tend to be way more trusting because they think they'll appear scummy if they fight it. And when it's a player like yuma, they figure he's going to be hard to lynch, so the best solution is to kill him at some point.

This gets me thinking.  Scum did not kill Yuma last night.

3 possible reasons why:

1.  He is town and they want him to shoot or at the very least are not afraid of him doing so.

2.  He is town and they do not believe him to have his power he claims to.

3.  He is scum.

-------

Toss 2 out.  It doesn't really make sense. 

1 means that if Yuma shoots, he is doing what scum want, or are not afraid of.  That's bad.

3 is just bad.

Thus, because yuma was not killed last night, he is either scum, or scum are not afraid of his power and him using it would be in alignment with what they want.

-------

Thinking "out loud" here.

[yuma]

A message for Amapharos:

Scum Faust probably would have continued to lead the town. The outburst should have been saved for a future game when he was town. Hanging up his hat in a game where he is scum would be a bad idea.

Ugh

[Ampharos]

A message for Amapharos:

Scum Faust probably would have continued to lead the town. The outburst should have been saved for a future game when he was town. Hanging up his hat in a game where he is scum would be a bad idea.

Unless he's using emotions as a tool (ie faking them or tightly controlling), he can't control when said "outburst"s happen.  Thus I don't think you can't say what he would or wouldn't have done as scum.  I'm reading it merely as a reaction to people expecting him to always be this mega driving force.  (ironically that's related to my case on him, but I'd like to think I'm going about it in a different way).

I don't really see him as hanging up his hat either.  It wasn't a desperation play, more of a "hey, listen" type thing when there was little pressure on him.

I get what you're saying though.