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[Robz888]

So the show just straight up sucks now?

Very sad.

I wouldn't go that far, but yeah, I'm actually not loving this season as much, and I think that has to do with how many changes they are making. I've really liked most of their changes up until now (the exception probably being the silliness with Bran and "Locke" at Craster's Keep last season), but eh... it's threatening to all kind of come apart. The changes to Brienne, Sansa, and Jamie's storylines certainly haven't left me with much enthusiasm, and the plot thread I'm enjoying the most right now is the one that has been arguably the most faithful: Jon and Stannis at the Wall.

[werothegreat]

So the show just straight up sucks now?

Very sad.

I wouldn't go that far, but yeah, I'm actually not loving this season as much, and I think that has to do with how many changes they are making. I've really liked most of their changes up until now (the exception probably being the silliness with Bran and "Locke" at Craster's Keep last season), but eh... it's threatening to all kind of come apart. The changes to Brienne, Sansa, and Jamie's storylines certainly haven't left me with much enthusiasm, and the plot thread I'm enjoying the most right now is the one that has been arguably the most faithful: Jon and Stannis at the Wall.

I dunno, I thought Arya refusing to give up Needle was beautifully done.

[Witherweaver]

Actually, I'm happy enough with most of their changes.  I like not knowing what's coming next.  I'm very excited to see both Jaime in his story and Brienne/Sansa in theirs.  And, everything with Arya is good.  And accelerating Daenerys' storyline is probably good.

I'm mostly disappointed with things being dropped, because, well, I don't really like it when stuff is left out. But it happens with book adaptations a lot.

[Robz888]

I guess, one of the problems I'm having is that some of the storylines seem very strained. Littlefinger's Sansa plot just makes absolutely no sense. If his goal is to give Sansa the north by way of a victorious Stannis, why not just sit her safely in the Vale until Winterfell falls and then send her north? Why subject her to the Boltons at all?

The fact that Brienne has now run across both Arya and Sansa, and had them refuse her service, just sucks all the urgency out of her narrative. There is just no point to her anymore--particularly if, as I suspect, the showrunners aren't ever going to introduce Stonheart. They are trying make "avenge Renly, kill Stannis" her motivation, but it's just impossible to be anything but mildly annoyed about that, because Renly has been dead for many seasons (and was never like a fully realized character anyway).

I like Jamie hanging out with Bronne, but I'm not yet loving the idea to send them to Dorne instead of the Riverlands. The Dornish characters just don't seem very interesting now that Oberyn is dead. They don't add much. It's not like the show had a dearth of characters whose primary motivation is "revenge."

[Eevee]

There are some great acting performances, Stannis and Davos are awesome and Bronn is fun. But oh my god have they botched Jaime's character??? He was one of my favorites in the books, this version makes me cry.
Spoilers regarding the end of the episode:
Apparently Barristan is actually dead. Which I guess means he will die in the battle of Meereen in the books? Mmh. I guess they are killing off Dany's trusted advisors to make reintroducing Jorah easier?

I agree with Robz there is a lot of storylines that don't do anything but are there to remind us of the characters. I'm really hoping Littlefinger has some deeper plan regarding Sansa, as it is I don't understand why she has to be suspected to the Bolton's if they are actually backing Stannis. Why not just take her to him?

I can't even point at any single thing why I dislike the show now. It's just not captivating. I used to stay up until the episode airs (5am here) because I couldn't wait to see it, and now it wasn't even hard to not watch the leaked episodes and I'm actually putting off watching the new one for days just because I don't care. There is not a single character arc or plot line I'm particularly interested in right now. No person I'm hoping to see next. It's just dull!

[eHalcyon]

I dunno, I thought Arya refusing to give up Needle was beautifully done.

That's not a change from the book, though maybe they changed the particular manner of it...?

"avenge Stannis, kill Renly"

Other way around, right?

[Robz888]

I dunno, I thought Arya refusing to give up Needle was beautifully done.

That's not a change from the book, though maybe they changed the particular manner of it...?

"avenge Stannis, kill Renly"

Other way around, right?

Right right. Of course.

[Watno]

I just realized they didn't even include Cersei burning down the tower of the hand.

[Voltaire]

I think I'm the most forgiving book fan I've met when it comes to the show (I like that they cut LSH, for example) and even I'm arching my eyebrows a bit at Sansa's storyline so far. I'm holding out home for some sort of bizarre Littlefinger double-bluff something.

Brienne meeting Arya and Sansa and being rejected by both I actually loved - because it's a plot change that's consistent with everyone's book characterizations. I mean, why exactly would Arya or Sansa want to go with Brienne anyway? Littlefinger was actually pretty much telling the truth (however snidely) about Brienne at the inn.

I always find it interesting to consider what my show-only roommate thinks, and he's loving the season so far, especially Cersei and the Faith Militant. He expects them to kill her at the end of the season - it's the one prediction he's made.

[Robz888]

Brienne meeting Arya and Sansa and being rejected by both I actually loved - because it's a plot change that's consistent with everyone's book characterizations. I mean, why exactly would Arya or Sansa want to go with Brienne anyway? Littlefinger was actually pretty much telling the truth (however snidely) about Brienne at the inn.

But it just means there's really no reason for her character anymore. She was tasked with finding and saving the Starks, she randomly stumbled across them pretty quickly, and they decided she sucks and want nothing to do with her. Why do we still have to put up with any Brienne scenes? There's nothing for her to do. I guess I should withhold judgment for now, but I'm reeeally struggling to care about what happens to her now.

Jamie and Bronne are in a sort of similarly low-stakes story, because what happens to Myrcella just isn't very important or fascinating; again, it's been too long to care about the character.

[Robz888]

Oh and I could never, and will never, forgive cutting LSH.

[Eevee]

As documented earlier, I never liked LSH so barring her actually becoming important, I don't mind cutting her. I'm not happy they seem to have decided to cut the iron islands and many awesome characters from there and Aegon though.

[Voltaire]

But it just means there's really no reason for her character anymore. She was tasked with finding and saving the Starks, she randomly stumbled across them pretty quickly, and they decided she sucks and want nothing to do with her. Why do we still have to put up with any Brienne scenes? There's nothing for her to do.

Because Brienne is the "one true knight" and the show is about characters in addition to plot plot plot? Also, it seems like she'll be absorbing some version of Abel's/Theon's role in Winterfell later on based on trailers/informed speculation.

[silverspawn]

well, having not read the books, I think the season is phenomenal so far. The only thing which seemed odd about this episode is that they left grey worm alive.

[Watno]

Because Brienne is the "one true knight" and the show is about characters in addition to plot plot plot? Also, it seems like she'll be absorbing some version of Abel's/Theon's role in Winterfell later on based on trailers/informed speculation.

That doesn't sound like it will make things better. I think Brienne's and Jaime's arc were messed up from the point where they arrived in KL and Brienne didn't even attempt helping Sansa.

[Voltaire]

I think Brienne's and Jaime's arc were messed up from the point where they arrived in KL and Brienne didn't even attempt helping Sansa.

Oh, right, I forgot that happened...I'm out of ammo to hand-wave the issues away.

[werothegreat]

So with all the hullabaloo the show has been making about greyscale, I would be very surprised if it wasn't extremely important to the story.  It certainly doesn't seem like just a tiny little worldbuilding thing - it really seems like it's going to be a major plot point.  Which brings us to the question: What exactly is greyscale???

[eHalcyon]

So with all the hullabaloo the show has been making about greyscale, I would be very surprised if it wasn't extremely important to the story.  It certainly doesn't seem like just a tiny little worldbuilding thing - it really seems like it's going to be a major plot point.  Which brings us to the question: What exactly is greyscale???

I'm not watching the show yet.  I'm reading the books.  This is the sense I get:

It's a skin disease like leprosy that turns skin hard and grey like stone.  It's usually fatal but it's a slow death.  Survivors become immune to the disease but tend to be disfigured for life.  An example is Shireen Baratheon.

[Voltaire]

And like chicken pox in real life, it's usually just bothersome to children, but (frequently) fatal to adults.

[werothegreat]

So with all the hullabaloo the show has been making about greyscale, I would be very surprised if it wasn't extremely important to the story.  It certainly doesn't seem like just a tiny little worldbuilding thing - it really seems like it's going to be a major plot point.  Which brings us to the question: What exactly is greyscale???

I'm not watching the show yet.  I'm reading the books.  This is the sense I get:

It's a skin disease like leprosy that turns skin hard and grey like stone.  It's usually fatal but it's a slow death.  Survivors become immune to the disease but tend to be disfigured for life.  An example is Shireen Baratheon.

That's not what I meant.  I get that it's a disease like leprosy - when I'm asking asking what it is, I'm asking whether it's magical in nature, what part it's going to play in the larger narrative, if it's symbolizing something, if it's going to interact with dragons or white walkers in some way.

[Eevee]

Could greyscale be somehow replacing the pale mare in the show?

Jorah getting greyscale instead of Connington feels like less of a big deal. I mean, he has no other particular reason to want to postpone a sure death a little longer than delivering Tyrion to Dany, right?

[silverspawn]

I think Brienne's and Jaime's arc were messed up from the point where they arrived in KL and Brienne didn't even attempt helping Sansa.

Oh, right, I forgot that happened...I'm out of ammo to hand-wave the issues away.

She did though.

[eHalcyon]

Having not watched the show, I am not quite sure who all the actors are.

On the first day there's the actor who plays Robert Baratheon (who I recognize more as Roland from Knight's Tale) and... who?

Who's the guy at 4:55 that has the staredown with Jon Snow... Theon?  The two at 5:30 who want nuggets (that might be Theon again)?  The three singing at 7:37 (I think the woman is Daenerys)?

[Voltaire]

First question, I think you're talking about Jorah Mormont.

4:55 - staredown is between Ramsey Bolton (Snow) and Theon.

Nuggets - Sam and Jojen Reed

Singing three - Ramsey, Theon, and Myranda (show-only character, but she is one of Ramsey's "girls", who are in the books)

[eHalcyon]

First question, I think you're talking about Jorah Mormont.

4:55 - staredown is between Ramsey Bolton (Snow) and Theon.

Nuggets - Sam and Jojen Reed

Singing three - Ramsey, Theon, and Myranda (show-only character, but she is one of Ramsey's "girls", who are in the books)

For the first question, he's the guy at 3:00.  I'm not sure who that is though.  Jorah Mormont is an older guy, I think.

Edit: ah, I guess that's Ramsay.