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Author Topic: No clue what to do here  (Read 2069 times)

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Qualdrion

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No clue what to do here
« on: February 12, 2013, 08:07:39 am »
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I think this must be the most complicated board I have ever played on - The kingdom cards were:
Tribute, Venture
Conspirator, Horse Traders, Island, Smithy, Tournament
Alchemist
Black Market, Workshop (Bane)
Courtyard

Log:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201302/12/game-20130212-045735-b8756247.html

I have really no idea what to do here.
Smithy or Courtyard BM is the first thing I see, but I feel like that would lose to alchemist/conspirator because of tournament. And witch/YW/wharf in the black market is also fairly nice. But There is no village outside of black market, and the only +buy is horse traders. Islanding away is also the only kingdom card "trashing", so it's very hard to set up an engine, but I feel like the BM strats should be slowed enough by followers to lose.
Another option might be to open something like workshop/tournament and go for just conspirators and tournaments, getting some islands to get rid of stuff and probably a horse traders for the buy, then just grab some provinces and prizes and try to win off that. But if the opponent gets witch or young witch off the black market you might be screwed really badly since they can slow you down so much since you don't have any way to increase your handsize or get rid of the curses, causing you to end up drawing your useless cards so often.

I went with Potion/Black Market, hoping to maybe get something nice off the black market, especially university would be really nice if I could get it. Both my potion and black market misses the shuffle though, and I pull young witch off the black market which I couldn't resist, so my alchemist stack never actually gets running.

Some insight to what would be optimal on this board would be cool - it is a really interesting one in any case IMO.
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soulnet

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Re: No clue what to do here
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2013, 08:46:56 am »
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I think I would also have gone for Alchemist/Conspirator with Tournaments, so definitely open Potion. The $3 is hard, Black Market does not seem entirely wrong to me, although I doubt weither to open Workshop. There are several uses for Workshop, you may want to get a couple of Conspirators, but I would concentrate on Tournaments, and more importantly, if you keep Islanding away your green cards or Curses, the Alchemists will continue to draw your whole deck all the way to the end. An engine that can get Province+Island and sustain it seems good enough here. Note that you don't need a lot of cash without a good source of +Buy (HT is not a good source here, without actions, and you better race the provinces because if you lose too many prizes, you are doomed).

Followers is nice, but it actually only means a 2 VP swing, because engine-wise, the Estate is as bad as the Curse, so you can consider Followers to be something like +2 Cards, +2VP, militia-atack. This is pretty good, but a 5-3 Province split probably means more. If your engine is reliable, is maybe better to get Trusty Steed first for the actions or even Princess for the +Buy, which will clearly enable double Province turns (even a single double Province turn may give you the game).

So, in summary, I would open Potion/Workshop, get at least an Island and some Alchemists, and then get one or two Tournaments (by the time you have provinces to pair them with, you would probably be drawing most of your deck anyway). After that, adapt, esepcially when it comes to prize-picking, but if I win the first Tournament, I would get Trusty Steed, especially, if I have more than 1 tournament, because it can make you get Followers in the same turn if you have the draw.

BTW, if you are planning on getting 4 or 5 alchemist, and get a bad hand like CCEEE, pick up a Copper.

EDIT: I would have to rethink everything for 5/2 opening.
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Powerman

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Re: No clue what to do here
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2013, 08:55:06 am »
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First off all, you have horrendous shuffle luck.   As to tactics, I like the opening.  I like the YW purchase on Turn 5.  I don't like the Island turn 7 -- with no plus actions, terminally "trashing" 1 card is not likely to be the best use of your terminal action.  Turn 15 almost has to be an alchemist because you REALLY need non terminal draw, and you only have 2 alchemists here.  But mainly, BM>Silver as an opener here, but not much you can do with your shuffling.
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Qualdrion

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Re: No clue what to do here
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2013, 09:59:39 am »
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Yeah, I agree about the island after having played the game. At the time it seemed like a good purchase since I really wanted to get rid of estates and coppers etc. but I regretted it a lot
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soulnet

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Re: No clue what to do here
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2013, 10:34:53 am »
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Yeah, I agree about the island after having played the game. At the time it seemed like a good purchase since I really wanted to get rid of estates and coppers etc. but I regretted it a lot

Actually, just Estates (and other Green stuff), Coppers should be your main economy with the Alchemists.

About luck, of course I agree, bottomdecking both opening purchases is quite hard to overcome in any board.
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Qualdrion

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Re: No clue what to do here
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2013, 11:39:56 am »
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Do you really want coppers when you have an alchemist stack? oO
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soulnet

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Re: No clue what to do here
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2013, 11:51:00 am »
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Do you really want coppers when you have an alchemist stack? oO

WOW, I was thinking Apothecary the entire time (two posts). I'm sorry to everyone reading.
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DG

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Re: No clue what to do here
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2013, 12:04:42 pm »
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Quote
Smithy or Courtyard BM is the first thing I see, but I feel like that would lose to alchemist/conspirator because of tournament. And witch/YW/wharf in the black market is also fairly nice. But There is no village outside of black market, and the only +buy is horse traders. Islanding away is also the only kingdom card "trashing", so it's very hard to set up an engine, but I feel like the BM strats should be slowed enough by followers to lose.

A money deck with courtyard, venture, tournament, maybe an initial island; it all looks quite strong. It should compete strongly for the first province in which case an opponent using tournaments isn't going to get any advantage. A strong money deck should also be able to soak up the followers better than an engineered drawing deck. It's only the quality of the black market that would push me away from that strategy.
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Qualdrion

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Re: No clue what to do here
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2013, 04:55:03 pm »
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The black market had lots of interesting stuff in it - Market, wharf, witch, young witch, jester, forge, militia and haggler are all fairly nice to get.
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Jerk of All trades

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Re: No clue what to do here
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2013, 06:29:33 pm »
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I agree with the BM potion.
workshop potion and you are just BEGGING to waste your potion on the first shuffle.
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