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[eHalcyon]

Gilly seemed really chipper.  I don't remember if the show followed the books on this... Was there a baby switch on the show?  If so, was Gilly informed?

Yes, Gilly's baby was kept at Castle Black, and Mance and Dally's baby was brought with Sam, Gilly, and Maester Aemon, and the other dude from the Night Watch that gets totally Arya'd in Braavos.  Jon switched Gilly's baby with Mance and Dally's, because Mance is a 'king' and therefore Melisandre would want to sacrifice his child.  So this is why Gilly is upset.  I think Sam was not told.

The show deviates a little besides that.  Aemon dies on the journey, not before.  Jon sends Sam to Oldtown; it isn't Sam's idea.  And there was a stopover in Braavos.

Your first spoiler is correct for the books.  My comment was that Gilly does not appear to be sad here.  So that's a fairly big deviation from the books... but I forgot that it was already a dropped sub plot.  Hmm.

Right, yeah, that was what I was saying.  In the show, there isn't a reason for her to be depressed for the journey.

OK, I was confused because you answered "yes" when my question was, "Did they do the same thing as the books?"

[Witherweaver]

Gilly seemed really chipper.  I don't remember if the show followed the books on this... Was there a baby switch on the show?  If so, was Gilly informed?

Yes, Gilly's baby was kept at Castle Black, and Mance and Dally's baby was brought with Sam, Gilly, and Maester Aemon, and the other dude from the Night Watch that gets totally Arya'd in Braavos.  Jon switched Gilly's baby with Mance and Dally's, because Mance is a 'king' and therefore Melisandre would want to sacrifice his child.  So this is why Gilly is upset.  I think Sam was not told.

The show deviates a little besides that.  Aemon dies on the journey, not before.  Jon sends Sam to Oldtown; it isn't Sam's idea.  And there was a stopover in Braavos.

Your first spoiler is correct for the books.  My comment was that Gilly does not appear to be sad here.  So that's a fairly big deviation from the books... but I forgot that it was already a dropped sub plot.  Hmm.

Right, yeah, that was what I was saying.  In the show, there isn't a reason for her to be depressed for the journey.

OK, I was confused because you answered "yes" when my question was, "Did they do the same thing as the books?"

Oh, I had misread what you wrote and thought you asked if it happened in the book, like you didn't remember the details and were double checking.

People's responses make sense now

[silverspawn]

Why are the episodes only ~52 minutes long? I think it used to be about 3 minutes longer on average. I want my whole 55 minutes 

I thought the joke with the old bearded guy was lame. I get it, he's a loser. Too much. To forced. Too blatant. Too unreal. Felt out of place for this show.

I did like just about everything else. Tyrion trying to make conversation was a much much better take on a humorous scene. And it was really nice to get a bit more sight into how Varys does his thing.

[Watno]

Which old bearded guy are you talking about?

[eHalcyon]

Which old bearded guy are you talking about?

I think he's talking about Pycelle scuttling past the Mountain.

[silverspawn]

Yes, that one. I'm as always horrible with names.

[eHalcyon]

So, Book of the Stranger.  Lots of table-setting, and most of it is stuff I could see happening in the book.  The thing that stands out to me as a probable deviation is how Dany takes over the Dothraki.  Specifically, the show doubles down on Dany being fireproof, which is something that is not supported by the books and in fact seems to be contradicted by both the books and interviews (see here).  I expect that the end result of the Dothraki following Dany will happen, but I think that the way the books get there will be different.

[Witherweaver]

The one thing I can't get out of my head about the Season 6 premier: in the last scene, when Melisandre is trying her magic on Jon, and it seems to not work, Tormund gives a look like, 'Well what did you fuckers expect?' and then proceeds to turn around and leave.  Except he doesn't turn around like a normal person, he waddles around like a bow-legged cowboy, shifting his weight entirely from one leg to the other without actually rotating his hips.  Every time I see it, I half expect to hear boots and spurs hitting the ground and see him to cowboy walk out of there like a cartoon.

See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCjrTu0D1z4 at 4:10.

[Witherweaver]

So, Book of the Stranger.  Lots of table-setting, and most of it is stuff I could see happening in the book.  The thing that stands out to me as a probable deviation is how Dany takes over the Dothraki.  Specifically, the show doubles down on Dany being fireproof, which is something that is not supported by the books and in fact seems to be contradicted by both the books and interviews (see here).  I expect that the end result of the Dothraki following Dany will happen, but I think that the way the books get there will be different.

I concur with this.  It definitely struck me while watching the scene, and kind of took me out of it a bit.  However,  if Martin never came out and said that, I wouldn't have taken any note at all.  I thought the scene was pretty cool,  basically a grand-scale version of how she secured her first followers. 

I never really understood the point of making it a one-shot thing.  I wonder if he had some specific future scenario in mind when he said that. 

[Calamitas]

Todays episode might be the first one containing real information about Asoiaf. (WARNING, SPOILERS ALL)

Hodor being revealed as Hold-the-door proofs multiple things (That one is all GRRM)

1. Past can be influenced in a strange way
2. They will actually leave the crave in the book as well      (since there is a door to be hold)
3. Because of 2, the Nights king parts seem to happen as well(but i expect it to be quite different)

Also interesting, though not confirmed yet (since it can be different in the book):
1. Others as mutated humans:
   This one makes them much more grey and enables much speculation about their goals. They might fight for getting back humanity or just for ending humanity.

[silverspawn]

I can't decide if the handling of Hodor is lame or brilliant.

[Witherweaver]

Todays episode might be the first one containing real information about Asoiaf. (WARNING, SPOILERS ALL)

Hodor being revealed as Hold-the-door proofs multiple things (That one is all GRRM)

1. Past can be influenced in a strange way
2. They will actually leave the crave in the book as well      (since there is a door to be hold)
3. Because of 2, the Nights king parts seem to happen as well(but i expect it to be quite different)

Also interesting, though not confirmed yet (since it can be different in the book):
1. Others as mutated humans:
   This one makes them much more grey and enables much speculation about their goals. They might fight for getting back humanity or just for ending humanity.

Finally the Game of Thrones/12 Monkeys crossover we've all been waiting for.

[Calamitas]

Todays episode might be the first one containing real information about Asoiaf. (WARNING, SPOILERS ALL)

Hodor being revealed as Hold-the-door proofs multiple things (That one is all GRRM)

1. Past can be influenced in a strange way
2. They will actually leave the crave in the book as well      (since there is a door to be hold)
3. Because of 2, the Nights king parts seem to happen as well(but i expect it to be quite different)

Also interesting, though not confirmed yet (since it can be different in the book):
1. Others as mutated humans:
   This one makes them much more grey and enables much speculation about their goals. They might fight for getting back humanity or just for ending humanity.

Finally the Game of Thrones/12 Monkeys crossover we've all been waiting for.

12 monkeys?

[eHalcyon]

Sansa seems a little foolish in this episode.  Littlefinger can't much be trusted and she has great reason to not want any association with him, but I think she should have given more consideration to bringing his army on board.  At least discuss it with Jon?  But hey, the Manderlys were name-checked as the only Big Three clan that hasn't thrown in with the Boltons, so maybe we'll get to see that book plot.

I was not at all convinced by Euron in the Kingsmoot.  The books made it work by having Euron bribe the factions with spoils from his travels, plus he also seemed to have a certain special horn.  The show could easily have done that as well (at least the first part), but they didn't.  So instead we have Yara saying "I'll build a fleet for glory!" and then Euron saying, "Oh yeah?  Well I'll build a fleet too, and then give it to a foreign queen for her glory!"  That doesn't strike me as more persuasive given the audience and the context.

So the Children created the White Walkers?  That's a big enough reveal that it should be in line with the books, right?  I'm curious to learn how that all went wrong.

It seems significant that Meera killed a White Walker... was her spear made of obsidian or Valyrian steel?  The show didn't really dwell on that though.

Summer.

I can't help but think that the Child's sacrifice was totally unnecessary.  Her standing there didn't seem to do anything that wouldn't have been accomplished by throwing the magical fire bomb instead.

Hodor.   I'm not sure what to make of Bran continuing to watch the past while he's controlling Hodor.  Is he actually doing both at once, and is the fact that he's both in Hodor's head and watching Hodor's past the bridge that creates that time loop in the first place? 

Alternatively, maybe Hodor regains control of himself, maybe even with his wits returned in the end, because if it was Bran controlling him the whole time then he basically murdered Hodor, and I didn't think Bran had it in him to do that even if it meant saving Meera and himself when they would all die otherwise.

Also, what is the likelihood that Hodor returns as a wight?  I'd say it's decent.

2. They will actually leave the crave in the book as well      (since there is a door to be hold)

I think that that's likely, but not guaranteed.  It's still possible that [spoiler[Hodor will hold a different door in the books[/spoiler], and I can think of ways for that to happen without Bran physically leaving the cave.

[Calamitas]

Sansa seems a little foolish in this episode.  Littlefinger can't much be trusted and she has great reason to not want any association with him, but I think she should have given more consideration to bringing his army on board.  At least discuss it with Jon?  But hey, the Manderlys were name-checked as the only Big Three clan that hasn't thrown in with the Boltons, so maybe we'll get to see that book plot.
Howver, finally she is actually trusting him by using the information he has given to her. But in general i have no idea what to make of show littlefinger (his actions in season 5 were just unreasonable)

I was not at all convinced by Euron in the Kingsmoot.  The books made it work by having Euron bribe the factions with spoils from his travels, plus he also seemed to have a certain special horn.  The show could easily have done that as well (at least the first part), but they didn't.  So instead we have Yara saying "I'll build a fleet for glory!" and then Euron saying, "Oh yeah?  Well I'll build a fleet too, and then give it to a foreign queen for her glory!"  That doesn't strike me as more persuasive given the audience and the context.
Totally agree, how can the ironborn be so stupid.
He basicly sais "There is a dragon queen and we will convince here with our hypothetical ships that aren' built yet (not even the trees are cutted down). And by the way, i murdered your king". Building that fleet should take years and euron can't actually believe that Daenerys has no other allies and will still need his ships in years (Ilyrio, Yunkai, etc.  could provide her with ships as well)

It seems significant that Meera killed a White Walker... was her spear made of obsidian or Valyrian steel?  The show didn't really dwell on that though.
Was it her speer or just a random one (from the cave)?

Hodor.   I'm not sure what to make of Bran continuing to watch the past while he's controlling Hodor.  Is he actually doing both at once, and is the fact that he's both in Hodor's head and watching Hodor's past the bridge that creates that time loop in the first place?
That was my understanding of the szene. However, we have to accept that past can't be changed since results of time travel are already shown in the past (Hodor). That leads to a "free-will" discussion since the universe is deterministic.

I think that that's likely, but not guaranteed.  It's still possible that Hodor will hold a different door in the books, and I can think of ways for that to happen without Bran physically leaving the cave.

What might that be? I think that if there is a huge threat that requires "door holding" an escape is necessary.

[silverspawn]

Do we need spoilers for the episodes? I think no-one is gonna look into the thread who hasn't seen the most recent episode and wants to avoid spoilers (seems no point, right?). I'd just put book-related things in spoilers

I was not at all convinced by Euron in the Kingsmoot.  The books made it work by having Euron bribe the factions with spoils from his travels, plus he also seemed to have a certain special horn.  The show could easily have done that as well (at least the first part), but they didn't.  So instead we have Yara saying "I'll build a fleet for glory!" and then Euron saying, "Oh yeah?  Well I'll build a fleet too, and then give it to a foreign queen for her glory!"  That doesn't strike me as more persuasive given the audience and the context.

I think a part of that can be explained away with sexism. But yeah it's not great.

I can't help but think that the Child's sacrifice was totally unnecessary.  Her standing there didn't seem to do anything that wouldn't have been accomplished by throwing the magical fire bomb instead.

I thought that too. She creates a bit of a cluster by doing it this way, but it's far from a reasonable explanation.

[Calamitas]

Do we need spoilers for the episodes? I think no-one is gonna look into the thread who hasn't seen the most recent episode and wants to avoid spoilers (seems no point, right?). I'd just put book-related things in spoilers

Since the thread is called "A song of ice and fire" even those are probably not necessary.

[Witherweaver]

A mildly interesting discussion on translations of this episode:

https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/4ko0ad/s6e5_i_feel_so_sorry_for_everyone_watching_that

[Witherweaver]

Todays episode might be the first one containing real information about Asoiaf. (WARNING, SPOILERS ALL)

Hodor being revealed as Hold-the-door proofs multiple things (That one is all GRRM)

1. Past can be influenced in a strange way
2. They will actually leave the crave in the book as well      (since there is a door to be hold)
3. Because of 2, the Nights king parts seem to happen as well(but i expect it to be quite different)

Also interesting, though not confirmed yet (since it can be different in the book):
1. Others as mutated humans:
   This one makes them much more grey and enables much speculation about their goals. They might fight for getting back humanity or just for ending humanity.

Finally the Game of Thrones/12 Monkeys crossover we've all been waiting for.

12 monkeys?

You should go watch the movie.  And then realize that my joke was funny, and then laugh.

[silverspawn]

Do we need spoilers for the episodes? I think no-one is gonna look into the thread who hasn't seen the most recent episode and wants to avoid spoilers (seems no point, right?). I'd just put book-related things in spoilers

Since the thread is called "A song of ice and fire" even those are probably not necessary.

I mean, I don't really care how the thread is called. I haven't read the books. I don't want book spoilers. I wouldn't read the thread anymore if there were bookspoilers out in the open. But I doubt anyone will check the thread before he's watched the latest episode. Unless there's someone who only reads and doesn't watch the show at all.

[Awaclus]

I haven't watched a single episode, but I still open the thread. I haven't read the books either.

[silverspawn]

I haven't watched a single episode, but I still open the thread. I haven't read the books either.

Well do you want things to be put in spoilers?

[Awaclus]

I haven't watched a single episode, but I still open the thread. I haven't read the books either.

Well do you want things to be put in spoilers?

I don't care.

[pacovf]

I just came here to complain about the pseudo-spoilers in the Random Stuff thread. Also, since apparently there is NO WAY to avoid spoilers on Facebook, I guess I might as well start watching the show (I wanted to wait for the books, but it's looking increasingly unlikely that I won't know the whole plot of the show by the time they are released...)

[Calamitas]

I just came here to complain about the pseudo-spoilers in the Random Stuff thread. Also, since apparently there is NO WAY to avoid spoilers on Facebook, I guess I might as well start watching the show (I wanted to wait for the books, but it's looking increasingly unlikely that I won't know the whole plot of the show by the time they are released...)

There is not much to be revealed. The show has totally departed.
 A few examples:
No Aegon, Arianna, Victarion, Connington! Dorne totally screwed up, Sansa given to Ramsay...