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[scolapasta]

- I may have been wrong / misremember that you were team "only ash or mix" would try to pull thus off (the no NKs). At least I looked quickly and didn't see it.

Found the post I was thinking of (#767). It was MiX, not Swan. My mistake.

[Swowl]

k.
Clarity I am not doing this because they are trying horribly to make a case on me... it is because they didn't claim.

Vote: scolapasta

[Swowl]

also scola - could you please clarify for me, assume I am just being dumb here (no sarcasm), what my ultimate end game goal would be for trying to get other people lynched prior to jumping on either ash or mix in the world where I am skum?

[Swowl]

also why will you not claim? like if you are refusing to do so, at least give a reason.

[ashersky]

other then they could shoot the UB?
Downside of not being able to iso out the UB in terms of read backs. Which at this point, could be fairly important. Though to your point, discretion claim could come into play there.

We have eight alive.  The chance we'll need to iso out anyone is slim.  True random lynches still result in a win for town a lot, no?  Let's assume the NK is stopped every other night:

7 v 1, ML+NK
5 v 1, ML
4 v 1, ML+NK
2 v 1

That's three free mislynches before LYLO.  The chance we swing and miss four times in a row is small.  With no NKs, we get even more.  Even with NKs every night, we just NL that third ML to get to the same LYLO.

(This scenario-running is also clear evidence why not shooting is just a terrible idea by scum.)

So I'm not worried about anything.  I think only those I mentioned should claim.  Heck, they don't even need to if they don't want to and we STILL win based on our efforts.

(And by that I mean, we lynch MiX and win.)

ash, since I'm still learning how y'all play, why does the 5v1 scenario above not have a NK? Feels like that one lose us a ML there. (note this post was after the first no NK night, but before the 2nd)

It was just an scenario -- I wrote "let's assume the NK is stopped every other night" in the sentence beforehand.  As in, a doctor is successful every other night.  It was just a hypothetical.

At this point, we are at 6 alive, so it is:

5v1, ML+NK
3v1, NL+NK
2v1, LYLO

Or

5v1, ML
4v1, ML
3v1, NL+NK
2v1, LYLO

Or

5v1, ML
4v1, ML+NK
2v1, LYLO

I'm assuming that 3-person LYLO is the end goal for scum here, so I'm guessing the NK would actually happen at 4 alive.  If that's correct, scenarios 2 and 3 are the same, but forces an NL by town.  I could be wrong about the NK coming at 4 alive, I guess, if scum feels they have a better chance with four alive than three.  But you get the point.

Honestly, breaking it down like that, MiX would be silly not to NK tonight if he gets another mislynch through today.

[ashersky]

One point to add to the many:

--while it can be said that I have been tunneling MiX non-stop and MiX has been tunneling me to the same extent, MiX is the only one who has been participating in convenient mislynches the past few days

[MiX]

ASH OR SCOLA FUCKING CLAIM I AM LOSING MY SANITY PLEASE CLAIM.

No one vote anyone other than me or ash for the love of all that is holy please listen to me I am commandeering this thread I am tired of misplays and arguments about nothing.

Scola, here's one argument that breaks your theory: scum!Swan can just NK every day and win because they need 1 less mislynch, and given yuma and LL mislynches he would've already won (one of me/ash is a free mislynch). Also I can't be bothered with reading all of it since we lynch one of me/ash NOW instead of leaving us to LyLo.

I am very very tired. Please just try to win instead of trying to be correct.

[MiX]

This is like my first SK game all over again where raerae just wouldn't vote with me for reasons unknown. Except here I actually give a damn.

Please, PLEASE stop destroying my will to play mafia by having this game continue without a claim. At this point I don't wanna play town anymore because no one else seems to care about logic, setup shenanigans or trying to win.

I am exhausted.

[MiX]

For the sake of not burning out every other player in this game with me, I'll try to be productive. Also due to respect of the non-claim UB, scola.

By the way, no one will want to No Lynch today. So, you can accept that fact and claim now, I'd love that.

OK, simplified version of my case against Swan:
- arranged with scum N0 to go heavy after one of the members for town cred (Joseph)
- after losing Joseph, tried to get rid of IC Dylan before losing teammate, switched when saw it was a lost cause
- pushed for LaLight and Yuma lynches, when Ash and MiX were better targets, because keeping Ash and MiX around would make it easier to win on the last few days
- seeded this all with an early "got the wrong person" post
- I may have been wrong / misremember that you were team "only ash or mix" would try to pull thus off (the no NKs). At least I looked quickly and didn't see it.
- (a new one) tried to get UB to reveal on Day 4
- I still don't understand the reason for wanting to get Yuma to L-1. There's no way as scum they'd claim UB there.

So these last two points, seems like UB hunting to me. Which seems quite scummy.

Look, I get that I could be very wrong on this. But I wanted to get this all out there to see what others thought about any of this. It is only my 2nd game with you guys, so maybe I'm just looking "too hard".

And I understand that it very well doesn't make sense to lynch Swan today over ash/mix (my pref here again is ash). But I definitely wanted to make sure we weren't on autopilot for lynching one today, the other tomorrow.

Thanks for the tl;dr, although I did end up reading it.

- So you're saying that the bus was planned...from N0? What? Then why would Raptor not hammer? Scum didn't expect Joseph to be lynched D1, and they definitely didn't want him to. Unless this is a double bus?

- Yeah, "tried", so did ash, so did yuma, so did...town. The fact that he swapped at the perfect time just means he knows when raptor slips, which is perfectly NAI as Swan knows raptor very well.

- If Swan was interested in winning, they would've NKd more.

- So would town. Besides, yuma was reeking of town in his posts that weren't about reading anyone.

- That's my team. The only person alive that doesn't try to win this game as fast as possible is ash. Or me, I guess. But just ash.

- Do you mean D5? It was really good for the UB to claim...whenever, actually, because Dylan was IC. It didn't help scum nearly enough as it did town.

- I still don't understand why you hammered yuma. The point of putting him at L-1 is to force him to claim UB, which as you can see is something we as town cannot do for some reason.

- UB hunting is town because scum will inevitably NK the UB so who cares when. Town just wants an extra IC so they can stop eating each other.

- Your points are fine overall but even if you cop him as scum you should still lynch me or ash. There's just no way town wins with both of us alive, completely impossible.

- You could do that in LyLo, all you have done here is aggro Swan. You should be sorting my/ash's alignment today, as it will be the last day we're both alive.

[WestCoastDidds]

I think we are all rather done at this point... I am following Swan because I don't have much enthusiasm for anything else at the moment

vote: scola

[MiX]

I think we are all rather done at this point... I am following Swan because I don't have much enthusiasm for anything else at the moment

vote: scola

Please do not follow Swan.

That's a request. From a friend.

Please.

[WestCoastDidds]

I think we are all rather done at this point... I am following Swan because I don't have much enthusiasm for anything else at the moment

vote: scola

Please do not follow Swan.

That's a request. From a friend.

Please.

What is your preference? I'm in a state of torpor, so anything, really.

[MiX]

I think we are all rather done at this point... I am following Swan because I don't have much enthusiasm for anything else at the moment

vote: scola

Please do not follow Swan.

That's a request. From a friend.

Please.

What is your preference? I'm in a state of torpor, so anything, really.

Just unvote or w/e, I prefer ash but who cares.

Just don't listen to Swan. He's pushed 2 mislynches and will again. He's crazy when going unchecked, look at D3.

I just want you to trust ny judgement of Swan.

[WestCoastDidds]

Oh, good gravy. unvote

But MiXy, what's the point? We need 4 people to get a lynch and nothing is happening to move the needle on anyone, even a little except that scola is not claiming.

I am feeling hopeless and bored....and that apathy isn't going to abate until we do something.

So, something...lets do something

[MiX]

We don't need to lynch. We just need the UB claim.

Then the chaos will settle and we'll lynch scum!ash.

[WestCoastDidds]

We don't need to lynch. We just need the UB claim.

Then the chaos will settle and we'll lynch scum!ash.

But haven't they decided that they are not gonna do that? Everyone has posted.

[MiX]

We don't need to lynch. We just need the UB claim.

Then the chaos will settle and we'll lynch scum!ash.

But haven't they decided that they are not gonna do that? Everyone has posted.

Lynching town's not going to make the UB claim. If we have to, we no lynch.

But really what we can do is not vote, but talk. Talk people into saying if they're UB or not. Votes are just anti-town since we don't have all the information.

Expect me and ash have a scum result on each other. But that's for later.

[WestCoastDidds]

Expect me and ash have a scum result on each other. But that's for later.

Result?

[MiX]

Expect me and ash have a scum result on each other. But that's for later.

Result?

Scumread that we won't back out of. Same thing.

[scolapasta]

OK, so fine, I'll claim. I'm UB.

I was still hopeful to try for no lynch, NK, to get us to 5. But clearly that's not going anywhere.

And I also get the Swan lynch is likely not happening. So here's what will. We lynch Ash or MiX. I die tonight.

Then Dylan and WC will need to decide between Swan and the whoever is left. I'm guessing it won't be Swan.

And I'll admit myself, I'm not convinced it's him. Just that there is a case to be made and this will have been a far more interesting game if in fact it where him.

[MiX]

The game's not interesting given scum deliberately chose to require 1 more mislynch.

Thank you scola. Now let's lynch ash and end this charade.

[WestCoastDidds]

OK, so fine, I'll claim. I'm UB.

I was still hopeful to try for no lynch, NK, to get us to 5. But clearly that's not going anywhere.

And I also get the Swan lynch is likely not happening. So here's what will. We lynch Ash or MiX. I die tonight.

Then Dylan and WC will need to decide between Swan and the whoever is left. I'm guessing it won't be Swan.

And I'll admit myself, I'm not convinced it's him. Just that there is a case to be made and this will have been a far more interesting game if in fact it where him.

Alright, scola...so lets try to win now. Who is scum?

[scolapasta]

I lean that it's one of Swan or Ash.

You?

[WestCoastDidds]

I lean that it's one of Swan or Ash.

You?

I don't think it is at all in line with Swan's demeanor to wait it out like this. He'd have Nk'ed.  Ash is far more wily, and has vastly more experience with next level mind fucks.

[WestCoastDidds]

MiXy is next level, too, but  neither Swan nor I has the patience for that. I don't know Dylan well enough to say.