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[ashersky]

Obviously that joke flew right past me, but the infamous game was referenced D1 so I didn't trust the mason claim at all. Fun!

Also also, Masons should claim here, btw.

Is this real, or...?

I think Masons should claim, yes.  I have zero problem with the D1 NL, as the game is designed with that possibility in mind (even player start).  We lost a VT on N1 to a great play by shraeye (something out of the ashersky manual for town greatness), so we're in a solid "start over" position.

The game is just asher9 with 11 player now.  The possibility of scum claiming masons (after all the talk of how it worked that one time) is low, and dropping our scum pool from 10 to 8 (from the perspective of non masons) is strong, considering we need to find 3.  One mason claiming is also a plan worth considering -- I would leave it to the masons to decide (I'm sure they discussed).

[MiX]

Obviously that joke flew right past me, but the infamous game was referenced D1 so I didn't trust the mason claim at all. Fun!

Also also, Masons should claim here, btw.

Is this real, or...?

I think Masons should claim, yes.  I have zero problem with the D1 NL, as the game is designed with that possibility in mind (even player start).  We lost a VT on N1 to a great play by shraeye (something out of the ashersky manual for town greatness), so we're in a solid "start over" position.

The game is just asher9 with 11 player now.  The possibility of scum claiming masons (after all the talk of how it worked that one time) is low, and dropping our scum pool from 10 to 8 (from the perspective of non masons) is strong, considering we need to find 3.  One mason claiming is also a plan worth considering -- I would leave it to the masons to decide (I'm sure they discussed).

If the point is to drop the pool, the masons can just claim if they're being lynched, and otherwise they can protect themselves through shadier ways in order to not be lynched. I don't see how it's that useful. I suppose 1 mason claim can only happen early, so that's at least one benefit, not sure if worth the risk.

[scolapasta]

With 11, 6 to lynch, yeah?

[scolapasta]

OK, an interesting hypothesis just came to me. Something just doesn't feel right.

If Raptor is town, why wouldn't he just hammer? Seems very strange that they wouldn't be aware of the deadline.

As scum, seems like a very bad move too. Because while no lynch is good for scum, lynching town is always better (no?). So why not lynch Joseph if Joseph is town? So then Joseph is scum partner.

But now both Joseph and Raptor make good lynch targets, so why not just stay quiet and hope for a no lynch happening anyway (as no one else came in at the deadline to hammer).

So doesn't seem like a good move for town or scum. It doesn't add up.

Unless...

Raptor and DatSwan are both scum. They plan on getting DatSwan to convince us to lynch Joseph first, with the argument:

Just to spell it out. Raptor is only skummy if Joseph is skum. So Joseph first, or at thre bare damn minimum Joseph before raptor.

We lynch Joseph, he comes out as town, and now we've been convinced that raptor is town because of it.

Thoughts?

[Swowl]

OK, an interesting hypothesis just came to me. Something just doesn't feel right.

If Raptor is town, why wouldn't he just hammer? Seems very strange that they wouldn't be aware of the deadline.

As scum, seems like a very bad move too. Because while no lynch is good for scum, lynching town is always better (no?). So why not lynch Joseph if Joseph is town? So then Joseph is scum partner.

But now both Joseph and Raptor make good lynch targets, so why not just stay quiet and hope for a no lynch happening anyway (as no one else came in at the deadline to hammer).

So doesn't seem like a good move for town or scum. It doesn't add up.

Unless...

Raptor and DatSwan are both scum. They plan on getting DatSwan to convince us to lynch Joseph first, with the argument:

Just to spell it out. Raptor is only skummy if Joseph is skum. So Joseph first, or at thre bare damn minimum Joseph before raptor.

We lynch Joseph, he comes out as town, and now we've been convinced that raptor is town because of it.

Thoughts?

I mean i know your not asking me - but the obvious flaws would be
A) my logic isn’t far fetched, it follows. Yours is an outside guess.
B) if me and raptor are skum (and Joseph town) Joseph would not be alive rn.
C) You have either on purpose, or accidentally created another skum triangle similar to the play out Joseph did day 1.

1) I am saying Raptor is only being skum read bc no hammer on Joseph. Do you disagree that if Joseph flopped skum you would not be suspicious of him. And flipped, if Joseph flipped green would you not be less suspicious?

2) I made a case, a pretty damn good one, on day 1 about Joseph. So don’t try to spin it off like i am stringing shit together last minute. I wanted Joseph yesterday, and all the actions of the day make me want it even more today.

3) i never made a case on raptor. The case i see on raptor has to do with a fairly straight forward tie to Joseph’s flip..

From my pov i thought Joseph was skum yesterday. I did not feel as so much for raptor. Joseph’s flip could be better in all ways for helping to determine raptors alliance. If we flip raptor, regardless of what they flip. I am still going to think Joseph is skummy.

Essentially - town could maybe make a mistake and forget to come back and hammer an unk player, but skum NEVERRRR makes the mistake the same to hammer non-skum.

I’m just gonna stop there. Your idea is valid in the sense you are allowed your opinion, but it does not follow at all with how the game has played out.

[yuma]

As for yuma my old friend...perma-pass just for coming back.  (Unless you are at L-1, because I can't pass up a hammer.)

You should be reading me as town. I am playing pretty townie.

[yuma]

Joseph doesn't seem likely to be scum. We are using him to figure out Raptor? Raptor is clearly town.

This is a false road to go down.

[A Drowned Kernel]

With 11, 6 to lynch, yeah?

Fixed, thank you.

[yuma]

I want to hold off on talking until Raptor gets here, but I think we are making false assumptions based off false assumptions here. So maybe wait for the players that don't log on quite as much?

[Swowl]

Joseph doesn't seem likely to be scum. We are using him to figure out Raptor? Raptor is clearly town.

This is a false road to go down.

I want to make this super clear - i think Joseph is skum for the pages of reasons i posted on day 1. And yes, i will think less is raptor as town if jospeh flips skum, but ultimately my point here is i do NOT want to lynch raptor today IDO want to lynch Joseph.

There is no false road, there is no road. I already regret using the reasoning i did. It was supposed to deter people from wanting to lynch raptor over Joseph, and yes there was a tone of linking between the two but i can’t help it - what happened happened. So i am suspicious. But i am not advocating raptor, just Joseph.
When Joseph flips skum, then i will deal with raptor, in whichever way makes the most sense to me at that time.

[yuma]

Joseph at L-1?

[yuma]

If I were mafia the lynches I would be pushing for and supporting would be joseph and raptor. They are the lynches that have the least resistant. They could still be scum if they are, but that is dice rolling, not evidence based. I won't be voting for either today.

[ashersky]

Joseph at L-1?

You called?

vote: Joseph

[Swowl]

If I were mafia the lynches I would be pushing for and supporting would be joseph and raptor. They are the lynches that have the least resistant. They could still be scum if they are, but that is dice rolling, not evidence based. I won't be voting for either today.

What more evidence do you want from me homie? I undoubtedly had the most articulated following case on Joseph as opposed to anyone else on anyone yesterday. That isn’t rolling dice, that’s making reads.
I mean if evidence = result then yeah, you right. But if we wait for results to find all the skum - we will lose. Gonna have to follow cases when there are cases up know?

I mean by your logic most people seems willing to vote them, so they Town.
Ok, most people seem to find you towny, does that make you skum?

[Swowl]

Joseph at L-1?

You called?

vote: Joseph

Sorry to bum you out. But i believe that is Swan, Mix, LL, WCD, Ash.
Takes 6 so that is L1 i think now

[faust]

If I were mafia the lynches I would be pushing for and supporting would be joseph and raptor. They are the lynches that have the least resistant. They could still be scum if they are, but that is dice rolling, not evidence based. I won't be voting for either today.

Agreed, for the most part.

Sorry for disappearing, I messed up there. But then again, I wouldn't have voted for Joseph, but LaLight I think.

[Swowl]

Also Joseph is my pick. There is essentially nothing that keeps me from that. But i ain’t allowing a hammer until at a minimum all players at least check in.

Unvote

[faust]

Vote: ashersky

Was scum yesterday, is scum today. Also you can tell that he's fake because he townreads me.

[Swowl]

If I were mafia the lynches I would be pushing for and supporting would be joseph and raptor. They are the lynches that have the least resistant. They could still be scum if they are, but that is dice rolling, not evidence based. I won't be voting for either today.

Agreed, for the most part.

Sorry for disappearing, I messed up there. But then again, I wouldn't have voted for Joseph, but LaLight I think.

So then who is skum y’all?
Or at least who do you more foundation for over my guy?

The ideal that Joseph’s wagon picked up dat one holds literally zero merit BC HE DIDNT GET LYNCHED!
Today - point is taken, different story. But also, he is skummy so i weigh those two am against each other.

[Swowl]

Vote: ashersky

Was scum yesterday, is scum today. Also you can tell that he's fake because he townreads me.

You think he messed up the math or actually thought he was hammering?

[faust]

Vote: ashersky

Was scum yesterday, is scum today. Also you can tell that he's fake because he townreads me.

You think he messed up the math or actually thought he was hammering?

I think he didn't bother to check and took the chance hoping it would be a hammer.

[ashersky]

Vote: ashersky

Was scum yesterday, is scum today. Also you can tell that he's fake because he townreads me.

You think he messed up the math or actually thought he was hammering?

Wouldn't those be the same?

[ashersky]

I figured it was the hammer.  Or, at the least, hoped.  I like hammers.

unvote

[ashersky]

Vote: ashersky

Was scum yesterday, is scum today. Also you can tell that he's fake because he townreads me.

I wasn't in the game yesterday.

If you are voting me because of whatever cayvie did, there is not much I can do about that.

As for townreading you -- forum rules and all, but I think I basically am 100% always correct about you.

[ashersky]

If I were mafia the lynches I would be pushing for and supporting would be joseph and raptor. They are the lynches that have the least resistant. They could still be scum if they are, but that is dice rolling, not evidence based. I won't be voting for either today.

Agreed, for the most part.

Sorry for disappearing, I messed up there. But then again, I wouldn't have voted for Joseph, but LaLight I think.

So then who is skum y’all?
Or at least who do you more foundation for over my guy?

The ideal that Joseph’s wagon picked up dat one holds literally zero merit BC HE DIDNT GET LYNCHED!
Today - point is taken, different story. But also, he is skummy so i weigh those two am against each other.

Dat, could you summarize your pages of case against Joseph for me?  Or link it?

What's the LL case?