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[Swowl]

eddie - could the players in the signing thing talk openly with one and other?

Yup.

We also weren’t told who was in the group, which meant if any of us decided not to talk we would never learn of their existence.

if you sign do you have to publicly sign in that thread?

[Uncleeurope]

Yup, and cannot undo.

[Swowl]

Yup, and cannot undo.

koolio. what is your take about Galz and the claim?

[Uncleeurope]

I see no reason to kill him today.

[faust]

Between not offering extra claims that makes his role make more sense, and not explaining his WCD read, I can only conclude that Galzria is playing an anti-town game, and needs to be lynched.

Vote: Galzria

[Galzria]

Between not offering extra claims that makes his role make more sense, and not explaining his WCD read, I can only conclude that Galzria is playing an anti-town game, and needs to be lynched.

Vote: Galzria

Sure Faust, let me make a whole bunch of shit up to appease your sense of “I-know-betterment”.

I’m unlynchable with 6 signee’s. Infinitely bullet proof with 8. With just 1, I can dayvig twice per day! With 2 I can cop everybody at once, and with 3 the whole game becomes one infinitely long single day with no night phases at all!

Apparently you knowing information about what other people receive in their PM’s is just a magical power you have that nobody else in the world has. While you’re busy magically knowing all of these things, care to divulge who the scum team is so Town can just lynch them and win? Include the remaining Town Aliens if they exist too - maybe scum will be nice enough to kill them for me in the process.

Or, alternatively, you can stop acting like you know more than you do. You don’t like my role? Think it’s relative weakness is a reason to vote me? Step up and own it. Don’t put the onus of lying to appease your ego on me. I’m not going to claim crap that I don’t have and aren’t a part of my role just to make you happy.

[cayvie]

i feel like we need to lynch mafia today and galz isn't it

[Galzria]

Regarding WCD being scum: I did provide my reasons. Two of them.

The first is that she has a tell. If I’m correct, which I believe I am, I’m not really interested in divulging it as it’s usefulness ceases to exist the moment she can alter it - and it’s not so prevalent yet that she can’t simply say “nun-uh!” here and now, change it going forward, and it would get overlooked. Anybody that’s actually interested in finding it has access to all the same data points that I do.

The second is that in re-reading the thread from start to finish, I find it really rather clear at multiple points in time that she’s not playing to a Town wincon. You can feel free to disagree. Swan clearly does. Reads are inherently biased, and everybody is entitled to make their own judgements. I’m not going to write a novel using the same posts everybody else is welcome to go back and read themselves already just to have Faust go “no, that’s townie of her”. You feel that way? Cool. I don’t. That’s my read. My having that read doesn’t make me scum anymore than Swan is scum for town reading her.

[Uncleeurope]

i feel like we need to lynch mafia today and galz isn't it

Yup.

[faust]

i feel like we need to lynch mafia today and galz isn't it

How do you know that?

[faust]

Or, alternatively, you can stop acting like you know more than you do. You don’t like my role? Think it’s relative weakness is a reason to vote me? Step up and own it.

I thought that's what I was doing.

I would also appreciate if you stopped with the personal attacks against me.

Here are the facts about your claim: The number of people you claimed were in the QT did not match the actual numbers. One might argue that someone just kept quiet, but that's already something you have to buy into. You said yourself that it doesn't make sense that you don't know who signed, but later get to pick among them, but you never clarified. In the meantime, I have received an answer from ashersky on another matter, so I know you're no longer waiting. You would have us believe that your role would make another player make not one, but two choices that are completely and utterly inconsequential to them.

I think that looks like a fakeclaim.

[faust]

And before anyone asks, no, I have no idea what the real role is. Obviously the QT stuff is real. Could that be something that the mafia creates? Absolutely. Could Galzria still be self-aligned as claimed? For sure. But I definitely think there is something he's lying about because he knows that if we knew it, people would be less open towards letting him live.

[faust]

Forgot other point in my "this doesn't make sense" list: Galzria is willing to self-hammer which goes completely against his stated wincon.

[faust]

The first is that she has a tell. If I’m correct, which I believe I am, I’m not really interested in divulging it as it’s usefulness ceases to exist the moment she can alter it - and it’s not so prevalent yet that she can’t simply say “nun-uh!” here and now, change it going forward, and it would get overlooked. Anybody that’s actually interested in finding it has access to all the same data points that I do.

Isn't your survival more important to you than whether or not WCD may do something more damning if you are not upfront about your accusations? Why would you even care whether your scumread is correct?

[Galzria]

Or, alternatively, you can stop acting like you know more than you do. You don’t like my role? Think it’s relative weakness is a reason to vote me? Step up and own it.

I thought that's what I was doing.

I would also appreciate if you stopped with the personal attacks against me.

Here are the facts about your claim: The number of people you claimed were in the QT did not match the actual numbers. One might argue that someone just kept quiet, but that's already something you have to buy into. You said yourself that it doesn't make sense that you don't know who signed, but later get to pick among them, but you never clarified. In the meantime, I have received an answer from ashersky on another matter, so I know you're no longer waiting. You would have us believe that your role would make another player make not one, but two choices that are completely and utterly inconsequential to them.

I think that looks like a fakeclaim.

First, the argument that the numbers in the QT  didn’t match my claim. So... I would lie about that confirmable piece of information because...? yeah. Real smart of me. Or, you know, the more logical explanation is that somebody didn’t post (lazy or scum, who knows).

Second, bolded, I did clarify. You didn’t bother to circle back to that point though and ask me why I hadn’t yet (as it’s clear you missed it), did you? ... - or you’re just choosing to ignore it. Whichever.

And yes. That’s what I would have you believe, beause that’s what my role is. Again, you want that to be the basis for your choosing to vote me - go for it. But don’t give me a crap line about how “Galz not offering extra claims that make his role make sense” somehow makes me something I’m not. I’m not attacking you. I’m calling out crap reasoning for what it is. I’m not going to lie about my role just to appease you believing that there must be more there when there isn’t.

[faust]

First, the argument that the numbers in the QT  didn’t match my claim. So... I would lie about that confirmable piece of information because...? yeah. Real smart of me. Or, you know, the more logical explanation is that somebody didn’t post (lazy or scum, who knows).

Obviously, the answer is - because you didn't know better. Like for example the recruitment to the QT was actually targeted, you targeted 4 players, it failed on one without your knowledge.

Second, bolded, I did clarify. You didn’t bother to circle back to that point though and ask me why I hadn’t yet (as it’s clear you missed it), did you? ... - or you’re just choosing to ignore it. Whichever.

Oh yeah, you did answer (when pressed about it, not on your own). And the answer is... ashersky didn't clarify. Which is funny because all the questions I asked about my role received clear and unambiguous answers from ashersky, even though they could have been answered by "you'll see when you get there". I don't believe that ashersky has a double standard in modding.

[Uncleeurope]

Or, alternatively, you can stop acting like you know more than you do. You don’t like my role? Think it’s relative weakness is a reason to vote me? Step up and own it.

I thought that's what I was doing.

I would also appreciate if you stopped with the personal attacks against me.

Here are the facts about your claim: The number of people you claimed were in the QT did not match the actual numbers. One might argue that someone just kept quiet, but that's already something you have to buy into. You said yourself that it doesn't make sense that you don't know who signed, but later get to pick among them, but you never clarified. In the meantime, I have received an answer from ashersky on another matter, so I know you're no longer waiting. You would have us believe that your role would make another player make not one, but two choices that are completely and utterly inconsequential to them.

I think that looks like a fakeclaim.

If Galz is scum who can create neighborhoods, why say the wrong number for no reason? His claim works just as well with 3 as it does with 4. Why commit to 4 when it is amfactually incorrect.

In most worlds we had a silent stalker.

And if we had a silent stalker, they are likely not town.

So if we had a mafia silent stalker, while Galz is mafia, then that silent stalker would know what signing/not signing does and would want to influence the group appropriately. And would therefor not be a silent stalker.

The highest likelihood occurrence is the silent stalker is scum who had no idea what signing/not signing did, and wanted to gather intel without revealing that they had such intel.

At least as near as I can tell.

The chance that Galz is mafia relies on too many oddities for me.

There are better places to vote.

[faust]

If Galz is scum who can create neighborhoods, why say the wrong number for no reason? His claim works just as well with 3 as it does with 4. Why commit to 4 when it is amfactually incorrect.

I detailed one reason, here's another - the number actually depends on other things, like "half of all humans", "half of all townies" etc., but Galzria did not want to give extra information about that stuff and so he made up something else that would hopefully yield the same number.

Which player in the game do you think would stay silent in a QT like that?

[Galzria]

The first is that she has a tell. If I’m correct, which I believe I am, I’m not really interested in divulging it as it’s usefulness ceases to exist the moment she can alter it - and it’s not so prevalent yet that she can’t simply say “nun-uh!” here and now, change it going forward, and it would get overlooked. Anybody that’s actually interested in finding it has access to all the same data points that I do.

Isn't your survival more important to you than whether or not WCD may do something more damning if you are not upfront about your accusations? Why would you even care whether your scumread is correct?

Forgot other point in my "this doesn't make sense" list: Galzria is willing to self-hammer which goes completely against his stated wincon.

Have you bothered to read the game, or are you just throwing stuff out there?

I’m willing to self hammer because no, my being alive generally has little impact on my ability to win if I can assign a Proxy, incidentally something that I believe will happen. But somehow this whole thing (including my willingness to self hammer) makes much more sense to you if I’m scum. Because anything about my unforced claim makes sense if I’m scum. Like, honestly, even you can’t put together a narrative where my actions make more sense as scum than as what I’ve claimed to be. The truth is, you just don’t agree with the way I’ve approached my role and want to punish me for it. And hey, that’s cool. Like I’ve made abundantly clear - no problem being the lynch today.

Second, I care about my reads at this point beause there have been two Town Aliens killed already. As I’ve explained numerous times, this leads me to believe that my best chance to find more Aliens is by lynching scum. I could certainly be wrong, but I doubt the scum team is 100% Human (and if they are and I should be hunting only Town, then that’s on me... and Ash, because I have no way of knowing) - and so it seems much more worthwhile for me to hunt scum at this point than to give little cares about who gets lynched as you’re suggesting.

I mean, sure, if I had a way to “Alien Hunt” similar to scum-hunting, then sure, I probably wouldn’t care. But as I don’t, I must play the game state - and the game state is that I’m much better served looking for scum-Aliens right now than caring about a Town-Aliens that might still exist.

[Uncleeurope]

If Galz is scum who can create neighborhoods, why say the wrong number for no reason? His claim works just as well with 3 as it does with 4. Why commit to 4 when it is amfactually incorrect.

I detailed one reason, here's another - the number actually depends on other things, like "half of all humans", "half of all townies" etc., but Galzria did not want to give extra information about that stuff and so he made up something else that would hopefully yield the same number.

Which player in the game do you think would stay silent in a QT like that?

Would telling a bold lie be better than revealing that info?

I doubt it.

Also, no idea. I don’t know anything.

And would you say Galz is more likely scum than third party here?

Like, what are we talking here? 70/30? 60/40?

[faust]

I’m willing to self hammer because no, my being alive generally has little impact on my ability to win if I can assign a Proxy, incidentally something that I believe will happen.

Seems to me that if you need one of 2 people to survive, and one of them dies, your chances of winning drop by 50%. Not exactly what I would call "little impact".

Like, honestly, even you can’t put together a narrative where my actions make more sense as scum than as what I’ve claimed to be.

Well, it's not on me to put forward a convincing narrative, but on you.

The truth is, you just don’t agree with the way I’ve approached my role and want to punish me for it.

That's not the truth, it's a lie, and if you believe it is the truth, you should vote for me, because that would mean I'm scum.

[faust]

And would you say Galz is more likely scum than third party here?

Like, what are we talking here? 70/30? 60/40?

I don't thikn it's a distinction that matters. He could be mafia. He could be SK. He could be Survivor. I have no idea how to judge that. I know that he spent most of his time D1 voting for town, and I know that what he claims about his role doesn't add up. That's enough reason for me to lynch him.

[faust]

Also, no idea. I don’t know anything.

Also, what a cop-out. If you don't know anything and have no opinions, you might as well sheep me.

[Galzria]

I’m willing to self hammer because no, my being alive generally has little impact on my ability to win if I can assign a Proxy, incidentally something that I believe will happen.

Seems to me that if you need one of 2 people to survive, and one of them dies, your chances of winning drop by 50%. Not exactly what I would call "little impact".

Like, honestly, even you can’t put together a narrative where my actions make more sense as scum than as what I’ve claimed to be.

Well, it's not on me to put forward a convincing narrative, but on you.

The truth is, you just don’t agree with the way I’ve approached my role and want to punish me for it.

That's not the truth, it's a lie, and if you believe it is the truth, you should vote for me, because that would mean I'm scum.

You’re higher on my scummy list, yes. Not for any of this though. But because of the way you’ve leaned into a particular overplayed meta of yours too much (in my opinion). But you’re not the scummiest person, and not the person I would put the most value on flipping scum. And lying (in it’s general form, not talking about here specifically) - well, that has no impact on your alignment whatsoever.

[Galzria]

And would you say Galz is more likely scum than third party here?

Like, what are we talking here? 70/30? 60/40?

I don't thikn it's a distinction that matters. He could be mafia. He could be SK. He could be Survivor. I have no idea how to judge that. I know that he spent most of his time D1 voting for town, and I know that what he claims about his role doesn't add up. That's enough reason for me to lynch him.

There is nothing about my role that “doesn’t add up”, except for exactly the number of players that choose to post in the QT last night vs what I’ve claimed were present - which is an illogical claim to make on my end against a verifiable result and has a SIGNIFICANTLY more logical explanation that you’re choosing to dismiss.

In your world, it’s more likely I made up a number against a verifiable claim than the idea that somebody didn’t post in the QT (due to laziness, being scum, or other). That’s ridiculous. You’re ridiculous.