Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Eevee]

Whoah, it feels WONDERFUL to have fully caught up with everything! Rereads are always so eye-opening.
First of all, holy moly how terribly I have played until this point. No wonder you almost lynched me.

Then, onto the good stuff!

First of all, seems rather obvious a vig shot timchen (good choice I think, wouldn't have been my first  but he never got wagoned despite the lurking which is certainly scummy) and scum shot Voltgloss. Now, I don't necessarily think scum shooting Volt implicates Robz, Volt was active and helpful, and scum teams without Robz would have killed two birds with one stone in both killing a good townie and framing Robz with a single kill.

I'm on O's side in the arguments with theorel. Of course, I have the added information of knowing I'm town. O also is easily the towniest player here to me, I would even go as far as saying OBVTOWN, but none of you have the luxury of knowing my alignment. I hadn't earlier realized how much info being wagoned gives you when you know your own alignment. Near death experiences are gooood in this game!

Another guy I have a strong town read on is Galzria, largely for same reasons. On top of not hammering me and realizing Lekkit was town day 1 (man why did I forget this day 2 >_<), they also have acted as voice of reasons on multiple occasions (imo).

O and Galzria got a lot of heat for freaking refusing to lynch a townie day 1, I mean are you serious? These guys are the main reasons we got a nolynch day1 when all the alternatives were town! Galzria even tried to wagon Insomniac who a lot of people think is scum now. Mild FoS on Frisk, ehunt and cayvie for jumping on the Lekkit wagon on day 1, rereading it now everyone should have realized he was town imo.

Summarizing my town read on O in one post:

FOS: Many Lekkit Voters

"It's deadline and we need a lynch" is not a valid lynch reason. Its an excuse/coverup for when someone flips town.

I will proceed to nolynch over hammering lekkit or eevee unless some major development comes. So either find a better wagon or get a lynch without me.

This is just 100% accurate and town behavior.

Insomniac made the infamous nolunch-vote 3 posts after that one, and I actually think it also clears him somewhat. I do think scum would have joined the wagon at that point.

Frisk is playing really cautious, could be scum wanting to avoid the spotlight or just cautious town.

Robz I just don't know. This post:

(longish, not quoting but that's the link)
has me strongly believing both him and Galzria can't be scum.. but I already have the town read on Galz.

I could be persuaded to vote for Insomniac or Robz, probably ehunt and theorel too, but who I'd like to see a wagon is yuma.

I played scum with him in mafia III, and the way he is behaving here seems very similar. Not posting a lot, sheeping other's reads a lot (often when they are wrong, like repeatedly in the Lekkit case). Man I wish I noted the post #s but it's basicly every post of his that make me think this. Sure, he could have just been wrong a lot but seems awfully opportunistic to me. I'm sadly realizing I'm not as good as Volt or Galzria at presenting my cases, but go back and read his posts (especially day 2 so around 700 posts mark or so), with the info that Lekkit is town in your mind. This was where I got the idea from:

, and everytime he posted the feeling got stronger and stronger.

Summary: O and Galz stuck their neck out for two townies (me and Lekkit) day one, that is just something I don't see scum doing (they are being suspected repeatedly for it too!). Yuma is my strongest scum read and I want to Vote: yuma so bad I'm doing it twice: Vote: yuma.

Vigs hitting town are by thereally nasty business, and on the whole this setup indeed seems to be biased in mafia's favor.

[Eevee]

I see yuma posted while I was compiling that behemoth. I forgot to mention his Volt-case, which also feels scummy to me. But yeah reread his day 2 stuff and see for yourself.

[yuma]

Eevee if you actually looked at my behavior you would see that I am actually behaving a lot more like my BMM1 game than either MIII or MV. In III and V I did what you described. stayed in the background and really tried to go with the flow

In this game and in BMM1 I was much more proactive in trying to make reads and provide votes (especially go back and closely reread my early Day 1 posts) myself. In both this game and in BMM1 my focus ended up being incorrect. Shark_Bait and Voltgloss, but being wrong isn't scummy.

Understand your suspicions but I really think you need to reanalyze and especially reread my posts.

[Galzria]

So here's where I'm at:

I'm not fully caught up, but I would like to ask everybodies opinion of Robz and Insomniac at this time (and especially in light of Lekkit being town). I've got an interesting theory, something I noticed in another game, and want to see if it's applicable here. Might be informative.

I'll start by stating that I was voting Robz at day end yesterday, and would've voted Insomniac too, just as I tried to do D1. Both appeared scummy to me, and having lynched someone that I found obvtown D1, they still do.

Can I get everybody elses thoughts on those 2? ((Robz/Insomniac are exempt from answering for a moment))

[Eevee]

yuma, you have been "suspecting" both Lekkit and Voltgloss, also voting in a way I would call opportunistic. I just read though everything, remember. It seems whenever there was a wagon for a confirmed townie forming, yuma was there to join.

@Galzria
Robz is somewhat scummy to me, but I couldn't quite put a finger on it. Everyone should remember the big case Voltgloss had on Robz though.

Insomniac too (less than you and O) contributed to me and Lekkit not dying day 1. So he definitely gets some town points for that from me, but other than that.. man it's hard, I didn't see anything concrete in his behavior and generally he always reads scummy to me so I don't know. Definitely prefer yuma over both these guys!

By the way, Voltgloss's day 2 post touching these guys:

OK.  Now that everyone has weighed in, let's see where we stand.  There are three primary wagons up for discussion:  Robz, Insomniac, and Lekkit.

Robz is the #1 choice for 5 people (me, Lekkit, Galzria, Insomniac, timchen) and the #2 choice for 1 person (Eevee).

Insomniac is the #1 choice for 4 people (Eevee, Robz, O, theorel) and the #2 choice for 1 person (ehunt).  {Note: ehunt is currently voting Insomniac, but has said he'd prefer to be voting Lekkit}

Lekkit is the #1 choice for 3 people (ehunt, yuma, Captain_Frisk), the #2 choice for 2 people (Robz, me), and I think the #3 choice for 1 person (Eevee).

That's 6 potential votes for Robz, 5 potential votes for Insomniac, and 6 potential votes for Lekkit.

We're not at 7 yet, but it's close.

[yuma]

Yes I joined the pops wagon very very early... but I stated my case on that one. He had a vote on himself. I wanted him to unvote himself and unvoted once he did as well

I was the second vote on Lekkit: Frisk was before me, both of us voted as prods. I then backed up my vote on Lekkit with the quote that you linked... basically saying that my vote on him was first there as a prod but then stayed as he began the "woe is me." At that point, Frisk, myself and Robz were on board.

I then cast the first vote on Voltgloss.  Here you have me in a catch-22. You say that my read and vote (which was the first) and wasn't sheeping on anyone is scummy but you also say that any voted that I cast on people already with votes is scummy. And yet at othertimes you have said that people who weren't voting are scummy. So yeah if you look at it that way, I am scum no matter what.

I then avoid joining and sheeping reads on Robz and Insomniac, scum yuma would have jumped all over one of those.

And then---I am the first vote on Lekkit the second time around for his quick vote on Robz after the Voltgloss reveal.

Eevee your analysis sucks! Go back and reread.

[Eevee]

Yes I joined the pops wagon very very early... but I stated my case on that one. He had a vote on himself. I wanted him to unvote himself and unvoted once he did as well

I was the second vote on Lekkit: Frisk was before me, both of us voted as prods. I then backed up my vote on Lekkit with the quote that you linked... basically saying that my vote on him was first there as a prod but then stayed as he began the "woe is me." At that point, Frisk, myself and Robz were on board.

I then cast the first vote on Voltgloss.  Here you have me in a catch-22. You say that my read and vote (which was the first) and wasn't sheeping on anyone is scummy but you also say that any voted that I cast on people already with votes is scummy. And yet at othertimes you have said that people who weren't voting are scummy. So yeah if you look at it that way, I am scum no matter what.

I then avoid joining and sheeping reads on Robz and Insomniac, scum yuma would have jumped all over one of those.

And then---I am the first vote on Lekkit the second time around for his quick vote on Robz after the Voltgloss reveal.

Eevee your analysis sucks! Go back and reread.

I believe it is said that arguing with scum is pointless.  I obviously might be wrong and if this wagon starts to pick up, I promise I'll reread you to confirm my read.. but I just read the whole thread and you were by far the scummiest I think. Too many "accidentally winding up voting for a townie" - scenarios.. And no one had suspected you until here, which would fit the scum yuma profile pretty well too.

Fwiw, I read the "woe is me" as a huge town tell. In my notes I have a FoS for all the people who didn't see Lekkit was town day 1. Rereading it reminded me how obvious it was!

[Galzria]

Yes I joined the pops wagon very very early... but I stated my case on that one. He had a vote on himself. I wanted him to unvote himself and unvoted once he did as well

I was the second vote on Lekkit: Frisk was before me, both of us voted as prods. I then backed up my vote on Lekkit with the quote that you linked... basically saying that my vote on him was first there as a prod but then stayed as he began the "woe is me." At that point, Frisk, myself and Robz were on board.

I then cast the first vote on Voltgloss.  Here you have me in a catch-22. You say that my read and vote (which was the first) and wasn't sheeping on anyone is scummy but you also say that any voted that I cast on people already with votes is scummy. And yet at othertimes you have said that people who weren't voting are scummy. So yeah if you look at it that way, I am scum no matter what.

I then avoid joining and sheeping reads on Robz and Insomniac, scum yuma would have jumped all over one of those.

And then---I am the first vote on Lekkit the second time around for his quick vote on Robz after the Voltgloss reveal.

Eevee your analysis sucks! Go back and reread.

If you're really town Yuma now, don't tell me what scum Yuma would've done. I have no reason to believe you. All it does is place the wine on the table - which is scummy. Instead tell me about your thoughts now. I'll decide for myself I'd they're scum thoughts or town thoughts.

[yuma]

Galz that is fair. I have spent more time today looking over my own posts than other people unfortunately.

But this is where I am at this point.

The two players I want to take a deeper look into are Frisk and Galz.

I will be going back to look more closely at Frisk and you. For now I don't have any new thoughts. Sorry.

[Galzria]

Galz that is fair. I have spent more time today looking over my own posts than other people unfortunately.

But this is where I am at this point.

The two players I want to take a deeper look into are Frisk and Galz.

I will be going back to look more closely at Frisk and you. For now I don't have any new thoughts. Sorry.

That's fine. I just see "Scum me would've played like X, not like Y" WAY too often, and in the game itself, it says nothing. I'd it's true, tell me after the game when there's actual credibility to the statement.

[O]

I can't say whether or not Yuma's been like he was in MV, because he hardcore lurked there. He's been pretty lurky here IIRC but that could just be general playstyle.

[Galzria]

I can't say whether or not Yuma's been like he was in MV, because he hardcore lurked there. He's been pretty lurky here IIRC but that could just be general playstyle.

What're your thoughts on Insomniac/Robz in particular?

[Galzria]

Galz that is fair. I have spent more time today looking over my own posts than other people unfortunately.

But this is where I am at this point.

The two players I want to take a deeper look into are Frisk and Galz.

I will be going back to look more closely at Frisk and you. For now I don't have any new thoughts. Sorry.

What are your thoughts on Insomniac/Robz in particular?

[O]

both are very suspicious given yesterday's events. I've already said this.

[Galzria]

both are very suspicious given yesterday's events. I've already said this.

K, just making sure I have that right.

[yuma]

What are your thoughts on Insomniac/Robz in particular?

[Galzria]

So I think we still need to hear from:

Frisk, Theorel, and eHunt:

What are your reads currently on Insomniac and Robz?

[yuma]

My read through on Frisk:

Frisk and I appeared to have similar reads on Lekkit. He started the wagon the first day, I was on second. I started the wagon the second day and he was on second.

The biggest differences was that he was wiling to switch to Insomniac toward the end of Day 1. I wasn't online then, so had no input at that point. And he joined the Eevee wagon--hey eevee look another wagon I didn't join and more reads I didn't sheep. And while I am talking to Eevee--I also noticed that even Volt found my suspicion of him as town play. Why did you think it was suspicious? Why didn't you call it out before? Why are you only mentioning it now that he is a confirmed townie?

And toward the end of day 2, Frisk and I again shared similar reads on Robz and Insomniac. And his most recent post was him voting for ehunt, whereas I was trying to get ehunt to calm down.

So my overall read is thus: we have both had very similar behavior throughout the day. Very similar reads. I feel town toward him. I still think our reactions to Lekkit were completely valid. Day was the "woe is me" and the voluntary surrendering of his vote to others, and day 2 was the quick vote on Robz which he never fully explained or backed up afterward.
What does Frisk think of me?

[Eevee]

I actually got somewhat of a scum vibe on Volt from the reread, so not claiming my reads are super accurate.

Everyone else, thoughts on yuma? Do you think I might be onto something?

[O]

I guess these lists are better with less peopel

Captain_Frisk --- Lurktastic, slightly town
Eevee ----- relatively town
Galzria ----- neutral
O ---- incredibly scummy
Insomniac ---- scummy
Robz888 --- scummy
theorel ---- pretty scummy
ehunt ---- townish
yuma ---pretty scummy

So using Theorel's logic, there must be at least one person I'm misreading so I think we should look at Eevee, Ehunt, CF....

derp.

[Eevee]

Why do you say that? You have more scumreads than there is scum in this town? I feel you are making some joke I'm not getting.

[O]

Why do you say that? You have more scumreads than there is scum in this town? I feel you are making some joke I'm not getting.

I have 4 scumreads for 3 scum. At least one of my scumreads is off, and I'm OK with that.

If you have three scumreads for three scum you're calling out a trio. I don't feel remotely close to being able to do that.

[Eevee]

Why do you say that? You have more scumreads than there is scum in this town? I feel you are making some joke I'm not getting.

I have 4 scumreads for 3 scum. At least one of my scumreads is off, and I'm OK with that.

If you have three scumreads for three scum you're calling out a trio. I don't feel remotely close to being able to do that.

Oh so you were kidding, gotcha. 

Fwiw I find all your reads reasonable, still feeling pretty confident about buddying up to you.

[ehunt]

Bad service and trying not to phone post too much.

A/T eevee's questions: I find insom and robz scummy and would vote for either. I don't find yuma scummy but I need to sit down and reread from day one.

[Galzria]

Just need Theorel and Frisk now.