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226

Rules Questions / Re: Procession-->BoM as Fortress

« on: April 19, 2013, 03:52:06 pm »

I guess I just don't understand why NC is the same as Armory, because NC's effect triggers when you gain it, which means that the card must already be gained before it triggers.

227

Rules Questions / Re: Procession-->BoM as Fortress

« on: April 19, 2013, 03:37:09 pm »

The problem is that this wording (interpreted strictly) conflicts with other on-gain effects.

Armory says "Gain a card, putting it on top of your deck."  This indicates that the card is gained directly to the top of your deck.

Watchtower says, "When you gain a card, you may reveal this to put it on your deck." This indicates that the card is gained to your discard pile, and then you resolve the on-gain effect and put it on top of your deck.

Nomad Camp follows Watchtower's wording, not Armory's.  If I understand this correctly, this would mean that you gain Nomad Camp to your discard pile, then resolve the on-gain effect and put it on your deck.  If it said, "When you gain this card, gain it to the top of your deck", then you would put it directly on your deck.

Basically, when the FAQ and the text on the card contradict, I trust the text on the card.

228

Rules Questions / Re: Procession-->BoM as Fortress

« on: April 19, 2013, 03:24:36 pm »

That is because Watchtower has an on-gain effect, so you gain the card first, and then resolve Watchtower.  Am I correct about this?

229

Rules Questions / Re: Procession-->BoM as Fortress

« on: April 19, 2013, 03:18:24 pm »

When you gain a card and topdeck it with Watchtower, does it ever visit your discard pile?

230

Rules Questions / Re: Procession-->BoM as Fortress

« on: April 19, 2013, 03:13:17 pm »

Besides, Nomad Camp actually does visit your discard pile for a moment before you put it on your deck.

231

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)

« on: April 19, 2013, 02:10:45 pm »

If you're allowed to play as many actions as you want, gaining all the silvers is easy-just play 4 labs, then TR-KC-Trader-Trader to trash 5 Provinces.

232

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)

« on: April 19, 2013, 12:50:55 pm »

Is this turning into the "how many silvers can you gain in one turn" thread?

233

Rules Questions / Procession-->BoM as Fortress

« on: April 19, 2013, 12:37:02 pm »

There was an extensive discussion on this topic on another thread (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7882.25), but we failed to come to a satisfactory conclusion.  When you play Procession on Band of Misfits and choose Fortress, do you trash it or put it into your hand?

The issue here is that Fortress has an effect that occurs when you trash it, while Band of Misfits has an effect that occurs when it leaves play.  My understanding would say that a card it trashed when it hits the trash pile, at which point it has already left play.  However, this contradicts the FAQ (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Band_of_Misfits), which says you put it into your hand.

Can anyone explain this?

234

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Best target for Procession?

« on: April 19, 2013, 03:57:38 am »

Here are the two major possibilities, as I see it:

(A)
4. Trash "Fortress".
5. Move "Fortress" to trash pile; it becomes a Band of Misfits.
6. Check for on-trash effects; there are none because it is a Band of Misfits now.
7. Gain an Action card costing $6.
END

(B)
4. Trash "Fortress".
5. Check for on-trash effects; "Fortress" has one.
6. Put "Fortress" into your hand; it becomes a Band of Misfits.
7. Procession tries to put the card from play into the trash pile, but has lost track of it because it is in your hand.
8. Gain an Action card costing $6.
END

Personally, I think (A) should be correct (you trash before resolving on-trash effects), but this contradicts the FAQ.

235

Goko Dominion Online / Re: F.DS room on (public) Goko - Outpost?

« on: April 19, 2013, 03:39:10 am »

Yeah, I just got the same thing.  I eventually just refreshed the page.  Apparently it's up again now.

236

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Best target for Procession?

« on: April 19, 2013, 03:20:04 am »

Official FAQ, available at http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Band_of_Misfits

For example, if you use Procession to play Band of Misfits twice and choose Fortress the first time, you will automatically replay it as Fortress, then trash the Band of Misfits, return it to your hand (it is a Fortress when it's trashed, and Fortress has a when-trashed ability that returns it to your hand), and gain an Action card costing exactly $6 ($1 more than Band of Misfits, which has left play and so is no longer copying Fortress).

I'm having some problems understanding this.
The moment you trash BoM as Fortress, there seems to be a conflicting timing issue.

Fortress' "when-trashed" ability wants to trigger, BoM has left play and is no longer a Fortress, which takes precedence?
If it's the former Fortress simply returns to your hand. If it's the latter, BoM is no longer a Fortress and the "when-trashed" fizzles.

For me "when-trashed" can only react after a card has physically hit the trash, but at this point BoM should realize it's no longer the card it was.

This is the same issue I had.  With on-gain effects, the effect happens after the card has already been put in your discard pile.  Wouldn't this mean that with on-trash effects, the effect happens after the card has been put in the trash pile?  At that point, the Band of Misfits has left play, so it is no longer a Fortress and has no on-trash effect.

237

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Best target for Procession?

« on: April 19, 2013, 02:28:34 am »

Yes, it's better than Walled Village, but it's by no means one of the best targets for Throne Room.  The ability to topdeck one other action is what makes KC-Scheme so good.

238

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Best target for Procession?

« on: April 18, 2013, 09:22:08 pm »

No, if Band of Misfits is trashed, it has left play, so it isn't a Fortress anymore and it stays trashed.

239

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Easy Puzzles

« on: April 17, 2013, 12:47:33 pm »

Yes, it was Peddler.

240

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Easy Puzzles

« on: April 17, 2013, 03:58:50 am »

I thought of both of those as possibilities, but neither of those is what actually happened.

241

Goko Dominion Online / Re: A New Problem

« on: April 17, 2013, 03:38:15 am »

Yes, I have had this same thing happen in my games.  It is very annoying, especially when you thought you were going to win.

242

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas

« on: April 17, 2013, 03:32:00 am »

I did actually open Mountebank-Chapel once in a game (against a higher rated opponent).  I won.

243

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Easy Puzzles

« on: April 17, 2013, 03:29:35 am »

A new puzzle (this one happened in a real game).

On one of my turns, the last action I played was Count, and I used the "trash hand" option.  (I had no virtual coin from Action cards.) I then bought two Actions.  When would this be good strategy?

244

Dominion General Discussion / Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $5 cards (Part 2/6)

« on: April 17, 2013, 01:37:04 am »

I agree with what other people have been saying - that Rouge is definitely worse than Graverobber.  I haven't played very much with either, but the one time I bought Rouge I regretted it.  As has been pointed out, the lack of a choice makes it just a bad card in general.

I think Mystic is underrated, but maybe I'm just overrating it.  I would put it above Graverobber, but that's probably just because I don't have much experience with Graverobber.

245

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas

« on: April 16, 2013, 08:02:35 pm »

No Effect
$2-Action

+1 Card
+1 Action
Reveal cards from your hand until you reveal a Victory card. Put it into your hand.
Look at the top card of your discard pile; discard it or put it back.
You may reveal a Fortress from your hand.  If you do, trash it.
Look at the top three cards of the trash pile.  Put them back in any order.
Reveal a card from your hand.  Return it to the Supply, then gain a copy of it, putting the copy into your hand.

246

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Easy Puzzles

« on: April 16, 2013, 04:52:00 pm »

Can you have played other actions first?  Or have durations left over from last turn?

For example: I played 7 Caravans/Havens last turn.  On this turn I play Trader, trash Colony, and discard 10 Market Squares to gain 11 Silvers and 10 Golds, for a total of 21.

247

Game Reports / Re: Highway+Ironworks (with KC-Scheme)

« on: April 16, 2013, 04:48:35 pm »

I would open Moneylender/Scheme over Moneylender/Silver.

Looking back, that probably would have been a better idea.  Given the complete lack of +Buy, extra money over the amount needed to buy a Province probably won't help much.

248

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Easy Puzzles

« on: April 16, 2013, 04:44:50 pm »

Time for another.

What is the highest number of Golds and Silvers that can be gained by playing one single action card? Highest combination of both counts, I don't know the answer nor whether it includes just Golds, just Silvers or both.

Limits:
- You are starting with a regular 5-card hand and an empty discard pile, you may specify the draw pile
- It's a solitaire game
- No duration cards have been played previously
- You are not Possessing yourself
- There is nothing on any of the mats

Examples:
You use Storeroom to discard 4 Tunnels, draw them back and discard them again (your draw pile is empty), gaining 8 Golds.

Hints:
The solution might involve Trader and/or Watchtower and very likely Golem.

Define "playing one single action card"? Does this mean Throne Room, Procession, King's Court, and actions that Golem finds are out?

What I meant was simply: Yes to Golem, no to TR, PR and KC.
Playing a single KC doesn't get you anywhere.

Allowed and encouraged, go ahead and start with Golem finding 2KCs or something.

Wait, if Golem finds 2 King's Courts, wouldn't that end the chain because King's Court doesn't count?

249

Game Reports / Highway+Ironworks (with KC-Scheme)

« on: April 16, 2013, 01:51:31 am »

http://dominionlogs.goko.com//20130415/log.505f8bd251c333114368fafc.1366090439617.txt

Kingdom: Scheme, Steward, Ironworks, Moneylender, Duke, Highway, Jester, Border Village, King's Court.  3-player game.

I saw the Ironworks-Highway combo right off the bat (Highway reduces costs so Ironworks can gain more Highways).  I opened Moneylender-Silver, planning to use the Moneylender to get to Highway and use Scheme to topdeck Highways.  I picked up Ironworks, Border Village, and Highway on turns 3-4 and get a lucky draw turn 5, playing Highway-Ironworks.  T6 I got a King's Court, and remembered the power of KC-Scheme.  I got a couple of Schemes in the next few turns; by this point the Highways were gone and I had 4 of them.  On turn 11 I play 3 Highways followed by KC-Ironworks, gaining 3 King's Courts and buying a fourth.  On turns 12-14, I play a massive King's Court chain ending in KC-Ironworks after 4 Highways, to gain 7 Provinces and 2 Duchies.

250

Rules Questions / Re: Yet another Treasure Map question

« on: April 13, 2013, 11:26:20 pm »

Treasure map says, "If you did trash two Treasure Maps, gain 4 Gold cards, putting them on top of your deck."

You play TR-Treasure Map with 2 Treasure Maps in hand.  You play Treasure Map, trash it and a Treasure Map from your hand, and gain 4 Golds.  Now you play Treasure Map again and trash a Treasure Map from hand.  However, you cannot trash the one from play because it lost track of itself, so you don't gain any Golds.