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[elahrairah13]

watchtower in hand with an extra buy but no money?
buy a copper, trash it.

[liopoil]

I buy curses with watchtower in hand to potentially have control over 3-pile ending late-game.

[mail-mi]

Anybody else Cellar away their whole hand after drawing their whole deck just to draw it back up again?

[sudgy]

TfB IGG.

I just realized this recently, relevant cards in the game were Fool's gold, Herbalist, IGG, and Apprentice (Scheme was there too, while we both got it it didn't completely change the game).  My opponent went straight Fool's Gold into a bajillion Apprentices to trash to each other.  Instead, what I did:

1. Buy Herbalist for +buy (mainly for more fool's gold) and put Fool's Gold on top of deck when you can.
2. Rush Fool's gold.
3. Buy Apprentice.
4. Rush IGG (and maybe get another Apprentice while you're at it) while trashing them with Apprentice.
5. Profit.

[mameluke]

Play a three Market Squares, play a Beggar, buy a Mint and trash all of those coppers. Since you played 4 actions, you can buy three Peddlers for free.

[Gveoniz]

Hand: village*4 and possession
play 4 villages, drawing:
bureaucrat, ambassador, masquerade,  king's court
play bureaucrat, opponent reveal and put back a colony.
play masquerade, drawing council room and masquerade, pass your opponent a ambassador
play masquerade,  pass your opponent a king's court
play council room, draw something, opponent draw the colony.
play possession.
...

opponent possessed turn:
hand : colony, ambassador, king's court and  something
play king's court,
    play ambassador, reveal a colony, return 0 copy, you gain a colony.
    play ambassador, reveal a colony, return 0 copy, you gain a colony.
    play ambassador, reveal a colony, return 1 copy, you gain a colony.
...

[GendoIkari]

Hand: village*4 and possession
play 4 villages, drawing:
bureaucrat, ambassador, masquerade,  king's court
play bureaucrat, opponent reveal and put back a colony.
play masquerade, drawing council room and masquerade, pass your opponent a ambassador
play masquerade,  pass your opponent a king's court
play council room, draw something, opponent draw the colony.
play possession.
...

opponent possessed turn:
hand : colony, ambassador, king's court and  something
play king's court,
    play ambassador, reveal a colony, return 0 copy, you gain a colony.
    play ambassador, reveal a colony, return 0 copy, you gain a colony.
    play ambassador, reveal a colony, return 1 copy, you gain a colony.
...

If this is a real game, it belongs in "greatest moments", not "stupid pet tricks", I think!

[KingZog3]

Hand: village*4 and possession
play 4 villages, drawing:
bureaucrat, ambassador, masquerade,  king's court
play bureaucrat, opponent reveal and put back a colony.
play masquerade, drawing council room and masquerade, pass your opponent a ambassador
play masquerade,  pass your opponent a king's court
play council room, draw something, opponent draw the colony.
play possession.
...

opponent possessed turn:
hand : colony, ambassador, king's court and  something
play king's court,
    play ambassador, reveal a colony, return 0 copy, you gain a colony.
    play ambassador, reveal a colony, return 0 copy, you gain a colony.
    play ambassador, reveal a colony, return 1 copy, you gain a colony.
...

If this is a real game, it belongs in "greatest moments", not "stupid pet tricks", I think!

It belongs in a game thread called ''How to lose your friends''

[Awaclus]

If this is a real game, it belongs in "greatest moments", not "stupid pet tricks", I think!

Indeed. The silver he topdecks with Bureaucrat just magically disappears before he plays Masquerade, that's a miracle!

[theory]

I don't think it really matters, since you can just add a Lab to the combo.

[GendoIkari]

If this is a real game, it belongs in "greatest moments", not "stupid pet tricks", I think!

Indeed. The silver he topdecks with Bureaucrat just magically disappears before he plays Masquerade, that's a miracle!

Silver pile was empty?

[Stealth Tomato]

I don't think it really matters, since you can just add a Lab to the combo.

Or remove the Bureaucrat and Council Room? What good do they do? They just cancel each other out.

Also if the opponent figures out what you're doing, it's really easy to just pass back the Ambassador.

[Squidd]

I think the point of the Bureaucrat was to verify the presence of the Colony. So maybe he revealed his hand to a Cutpurse instead? And maybe he was also holding a KC, so you just need to pass him the Ambassador.

So I guess the question is what are you doing with Masq and Amb in a Possession game, and I hope the answer is that actually it's a Black Market game.

[Awaclus]

So I guess the question is what are you doing with Masq and Amb in a Possession game

Ensuring that your opponent's Possession gains will happen later than your own, and then you can just pass him the Ambassadors and Masquerades when you've got a Possession of your own. Or just simply gaining 5 Provinces before your opponent gains any. I might be wrong, but I don't think Possession is a reason to ignore Ambassador or Masquerade, rather, the lack of Ambassador or Masquerade can be a reason to ignore Possession.

[Jiriki]

6 Provs by turn 12 on an Androminion Board; key cards: Rats, Workers Village, Salvager and Peddler

[StrongRhino]

Using Watchtower on Goko to put the 4 Treasure Map golds on top of my deck.

Did it here: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130717/log.512fe24ce4b08cb66ebe7d7f.1374107618560.txt (on turn 11)

It does make me think, is this even allowed? (Not that it matters of course )

[Warfreak2]

Yes, it's allowed; you could trash them if you wanted, too. If Treasure Map said "and then put them on your deck", then you could reveal Watchtower before that resolved. Treasure Map says "putting them on your deck" though, which means they don't go via the discard pile, but the top of your deck is where they are supposed to be gained, so that's where Watchtower expects to find them.

[KingZog3]

Yes, it's allowed; you could trash them if you wanted, too. If Treasure Map said "and then put them on your deck", then you could reveal Watchtower before that resolved. Treasure Map says "putting them on your deck" though, which means they don't go via the discard pile, but the top of your deck is where they are supposed to be gained, so that's where Watchtower expects to find them.

Watchtower doesn't have to find cards for it's reaction. It's on gain, so meaning at exactly the same time you gain them, no matter where they go. I could put the Curse from Torturer on top of my deck.

[Warfreak2]

It does; the lose-track rule can apply when multiple cards are gained at once, such that you can topdeck two cards in one order but not the other. I think it's Haggler in play buying an Inn gaining a Nomad Camp, but I'm not entirely sure about it.

[Witherweaver]

For instance, if there was a hypothetical reaction card, Card Silly, that you can reveal when you gain a card to discard the top four cards of your deck, you could reveal Card Silly to Treasure Map's Gold.  You then discard the four Golds (they've already been gained to the top of your deck).  Still reacting to the gain, I think you can reveal Watchtower and it would, I think lose track of the Golds so you couldn't put them back on your deck, or trash them.

Is that right? 

[Stealth Tomato]

It does; the lose-track rule can apply when multiple cards are gained at once, such that you can topdeck two cards in one order but not the other. I think it's Haggler in play buying an Inn gaining a Nomad Camp, but I'm not entirely sure about it.

Things must be reacted to in the order in which they occur. This applies to all Haggler gains, actually.

1. I play Haggler. I have Watchtower in hand.
2. I buy Mountebank. [I have not yet gained Mountebank, gaining happens after buying]
Time for reactions and effects from buying Mountebank.
3. [Haggler] I gain Village.
Time for reactions and effects from gaining Village.
4. [Watchtower] I may put Village on top of my deck.
Reacting to Village is finished.
5. I gain Mountebank.
Time for reactions and effects from gaining Mountebank.
6. [Watchtower] I may put Mountebank on top of my deck.

I can't change the order, because there's no way for me to gain Mountebank first, or for me to wait until after gaining it to topdeck it.




In the case of the four Golds, you can't gain more than one thing simultaneously. Card Silly can react to any of the four Golds. Same as Watchtowering the Curse and Copper from Mountebank (just because you gain both in the same statement doesn't mean you can't react to the first before the second happens).

An easier example is:
I play Treasure Map. I gain the first Gold, which by definition goes to my discard. I activate Watchtower to trash it, and choose to apply Watchtower's effect before Treasure Map's. Watchtower trashes it. Treasure Map tries to put it on top of my deck, but it can't because it expects to find it in the discard, not the trash.
Then I gain the second Gold. I activate Watchtower to trash it, but choose to apply Treasure Map's effect before Watchtower's. Treasure Map puts it on top of my deck. Watchtower tries to trash it, but it can't because it expects to find it in the discard pile, not the top of the deck.

[AJD]

I play Treasure Map. I gain the first Gold, which by definition goes to my discard.

This is not correct. Treasure Map's effect sends the Gold directly to your deck; it does not visit the discard pile at any time. You react with Watchtower after the Gold is gained—i.e., after it is on your deck, which is where the gained card is expected to be.

[Warfreak2]

Maybe it was Haggler buying Border Village, gaining Inn and Nomad Camp. I really can't remember. There's something about the card getting covered up in the discard pile, making Watchtower lose track of it, even though it was only covered up temporarily, and at the time you want to resolve the Watchtower, it should be on the top. It's somewhere in the Rules Questions subforum.

[Witherweaver]

He probably wants Border Village and Watchtower, since both effects are on-gain.  You can resolve in an order where Watchtower loses Border Village (if it's covered up).  But I don't think there's a way where you're unable to get the cards on top of your deck in either order. Either:

*Resolve Watchtower to BV gain and put BV on top if your deck
*Then resolve BV's effect to gain another card, revealing Watchtower to put it on top of your deck

Or

*Resolve BV gain to gain another card
*Gain that card (BV is "lost" since it's covered up by the other card), reveal Watchtower to put it on top of your deck
*Reveal Watchtower to the BV gain to put BV on top of your deck (BV is "found" again since the card covering it up was removed). 
[[[I guess this was changed with Dark Ages so you can't do this any more]]]

Or

*Resolve BV gain to gain another card
*Gain that card (BV is "lost" since it's covered up by the other card), reveal or do not reveal Watchtower, either moving the gained card on top of your deck or leaving it in your discard.
*Reveal Watchtower to the BV gain and fail to put BV on top of your deck since it is "lost", even if its on top of your discard 

So you can put the two cards on your deck in either order.

So you can put BV on top of your deck first and the other card, but not the opposite order since BV will have been lost.

If what you gain from BV has its own on-gain effect (like Inn), then you have more choices.  If you shuffle Inn and BV into  your deck, then Watchtower loses track of them.

An interesting scenario is the following.  Suppose your discard pile has only a BV in it, and you have Watchtower in hand.  Buy Border Village, putting it into your discard pile.  Resolve BV first, gaining Inn, so your discard pile is BV1 < BV2 < Inn).  Resolve Inn first, BV2 (the one you just gained) into your deck along with Inn.  Finish resolving reactions and effects from Inn.  Reacting to gaining BV (2), reveal Watchtower.  On top of your deck is a Border Village, but not the one to which you are reacting to.  So BV should fail, but how does it "know" the BV on your discard pile wasn't the one you just gained?

Of course, it's not all that interesting since you could have just chosen to shuffle BV1 into your deck with Inn and leave BV2 on your discard for Watchtower to correctly find.  More of an academic question: are copies of the same card distinguishable for tracking purposes?

This seems to have been solved as there's no more "refound" idea tied in with the lost track rule.

[Warfreak2]

Here we go: it's just Border Village and Watchtower.