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[raerae]

There are three people whose lynches I will almost definitely not be supporting today: Galz, Dsell and Eevee. Galz because he's Galz and he's busy. Dsell because he's probably Town and we need more evidence on him than we can probably get today. Eevee's probably from more of an emotional standpoint. I had this big case on him, and it kind of died, and I kind of just want to move on.

I'm in your corner with Eevee.  Not voting for him unless he does something awful.

I don't care for this absolving Eevee of all suspicion thing. Disagreeing with the earlier cases on him is one thing, but I really can't see how that translates into making him lynchproof D1. (I realize I'm exaggerating your positions a bit but hopefully people get my point)

I'm not saying he's been absolved of suspicion.  I'm saying he never had it in the first place which is why I won't vote for him.  If somebody brings a case on him that deserves a lynch, sure, I'll be all over that but right now, this very moment, I see nothing that would make me lynch Eevee today.

[Cuzz]

There are three people whose lynches I will almost definitely not be supporting today: Galz, Dsell and Eevee. Galz because he's Galz and he's busy. Dsell because he's probably Town and we need more evidence on him than we can probably get today. Eevee's probably from more of an emotional standpoint. I had this big case on him, and it kind of died, and I kind of just want to move on.

I'm in your corner with Eevee.  Not voting for him unless he does something awful.

I don't care for this absolving Eevee of all suspicion thing. Disagreeing with the earlier cases on him is one thing, but I really can't see how that translates into making him lynchproof D1. (I realize I'm exaggerating your positions a bit but hopefully people get my point)

I'm not saying he's been absolved of suspicion.  I'm saying he never had it in the first place which is why I won't vote for him.  If somebody brings a case on him that deserves a lynch, sure, I'll be all over that but right now, this very moment, I see nothing that would make me lynch Eevee today.

I'm not trying to say you should vote for someone you don't think is scummy. And it's confusing now because I do have a scumread on Eevee but did not per se at the time of the post you quoted, so don't let that color the point I'm trying to make. But the issue is that you and Jimmmmm both singled out Eevee as someone you wouldn't vote for today, which only makes sense for someone you have a townread on, (not a nullread, but a townread), and not only did neither of you express a townread on Eevee, but Eevee had also done nothing to deserve one (in my opinion at least).

For example, I don't have a scumread on Glooble at the moment. I have a nullread on him. But it would be insane for me to say something like "I will absolutely not be voting for Glooble at all today unless he makes a major scumslip." Maybe I'll get a scumread on him later. Who knows? The day is very young still.

[Cuzz]

The issue I have is more with Jimmmmm than with you, raerae, but your "I'm in your corner" remark is causing me to attribute Jimmmmm's statements about Eevee to you as well, and it's possible you didn't mean to imply that you agreed with Jimmmmm about the specific thing I take issue with.

[ashersky]

To contribute a list, which would be helpful from everyone:

Would not lynch today: ashersky, Robz, liopoil, Yuma, munch, Galzria

Would lynch: raerae, mom salon, jimmmmm, Eevee

Fence: Cuzz, Dsell, sparky, theo, Glooble

Would and wouldn't are in order.

[jotheonah]

After a long day of work, Bashir and O'Brien meet up at Quark's holosuites.

"What'll it be today?" asks O'Brien. "Spies? Vic's? The Battle of Britain?"

"Actually, Felix just sent me a new program," says Bashir. "It's an ancient human game of psychology and deception, based on 20th Century Earth crime rings. It's called Mafia."

"Mafia, eh?" says the chief. "Sounds a bit dull."

Vote Count 1.9

Eevee (4): TheMunch, Cuzz, theorel, Robz888
Cuzz (2): Galzria, Eevee
raerae (1): ashersky
mcmcsalot (2): yuma, Jimmmmm
ashersky (2): Glooble, mcmcsalot
Robz888(1): liopoil

Not Voting (7): shraeye, raerae, Dsell

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch

Deadline is January 18 at 7:10 p.m., forum time.

[mcmcsalot]

Okay, I've had a weird feeling from mcmc all game, but haven't really been able to place it. I had a bit of a read of his only other game I and I think I know what it is now. Consider this post:

I can clarify my defensiveness right now. I'm 19 and playing a game with my brothers friends, something I have always wanted to do, I like my brother and his friends quite a bit. So if I think your misconstruing defensiveness as nervousness because i'm just that, nervous about being liked and accepted by all of you.

Even though he was scum in that game, I think this was pretty genuine.
Now bear in mind that if mcmc is Town this game, it is his first game as Town, in fact his first game for which he doesn't know the entire setup. I remember my first few games I was Town and got pretty overwhelmed because I just wanted to be right with my votes and lynches and anyone could be scum, anyone could be Town, who could I trust or listen to or who was trying to trick me? I'm just not seeing this with mcmc, and I would expect it even more from someone who has played before as scum, and who is putting pressure on himself to be liked. But he seems to be "reading" and suspecting and voting just as much as when he was scum.

So now that I've heard from him and we're voting more, I will Vote: mcmcsalot.

Jim I'm surprised to hear this from you, especiallynow that I've answered. To be clear, my vote for ashersky is the only vote I have made, I was very hesitant to vote as I expressed early on but I came to the understanding voting in normal mafia games was a backing up of your read. Also, my suspicion from you stems from the fact that I put a lot of faith in supporting your reads(interesting you use the words"who could trick me as I was yelled at by yuma I believe for saying you tried to trick me), after your case on eevee was blown up, I realized I cannot trust other peoples reads as much as I thought. Since then I have been posting all of my thoughts on players in complete and concise posts. I felt this was the best way to benefit town because more veteran players than me could use my thoughts to help find scum.

[ashersky]

Eevee (4): TheMunch, Cuzz, theorel, Robz888

There has to be scum on this somewhere, or Eevee is scum.

[Cuzz]

Eevee (4): TheMunch, Cuzz, theorel, Robz888

There has to be scum on this somewhere, or Eevee is scum.

Why do you say this? (and yes I do think Eevee is scum of course)

[ashersky]

Eevee (4): TheMunch, Cuzz, theorel, Robz888

There has to be scum on this somewhere, or Eevee is scum.

Why do you say this? (and yes I do think Eevee is scum of course)

Halfway to lynch already?  I mean, I voted for Eevee at one point, but it is early.  Not like we've had a scum slip to wok with.

I mean, it could be both, with early bussing a la Cayvie on Lekkit in MXVII.

[Jimmmmm]

Okay. Sigh. I guess I have no choice. When I have time I will give Eevee a full re-read from as neutral a standpoint as I can and tell you what I think. For the record, I didn't do a 180, if anything I did a 90, from "I think I have a really good case" to "I guess it wasn't a good case after all, I just don't want to think about it any more." But you're right, being demoralised is not a good reason to give someone a free pass, so I will retract that, and do my best to contribute.

FYI I'm at work now, so I'll kind of be around, but might not be terribly active.

[Robz888]

Eevee (4): TheMunch, Cuzz, theorel, Robz888

There has to be scum on this somewhere, or Eevee is scum.

Why do you say this? (and yes I do think Eevee is scum of course)

Halfway to lynch already?  I mean, I voted for Eevee at one point, but it is early.  Not like we've had a scum slip to wok with.

I mean, it could be both, with early bussing a la Cayvie on Lekkit in MXVII.

Well, I would unvote to prevent him from being lynched sooner. I don't want to lynch him yet. We have two full weeks. We don't have to take two full weeks, but we should use our time wisely. I feel like I've barely heard from Galzria, for one thing. I know he's busy; the nice thing here is we are NOT eating up our time.

But I mean I really do find Eevee scummy. And of course, with multiple scum factions, you could have Eevee being scum and scum on the wagon. Though I don't think there HAS to be scum here at all, period, end of the story. But right now the people voting him are mostly my bigger townreads.

Right now here's an update on where I'm at:

Town: Robz, Dsell
Strongly leaning town: Theorel
Slight leaning town: Mcmc, ashersky, TheMunch
Neutral: liopoil, yuma, shraeye
Slightly leaning scum: Cuzz, Galzria, Glooble, raerae
Strongly leaning scum: Jimm, Eevee

These are not exactly scientific; obviously they can change. My read on Jimm jumped from strongly leaning town to strongly leaning scum, so.

I think I've pretty much explained all these reads previously, but to recap: Theorel sounds a lot a lot like he does in other games, and his analysis is valuable, and I have concurred with what he's said, mostly about Eevee. I was scum with him in VI, so I know something of scum!theorel. I actually do think he was more concise as scum than he is as town. So this does look like town!theorel to me.

My leaning scum reads are lingering feelings I have on those people for reasons I've given. Cuzz for the reason I voted him, although he's started to mitigate it; Galz because he is underposting, albeit with reasons; Glooble is entirely consistent with previous Gloobles, but previously Glooble was a Serial Killer one of those times, and also his vote on ashersky struck me as very baseless; raerae for her Eevee comment and from doing what appears to be deliberately attempting to mimic her town meta. None of these are rock solid, but it's what I have so far.

I explained my thoughts on Jimm and Eevee. Everybody else lands in a neutral category.

[Galzria]

Pausing in my reread as I just saw the latest votecount, but really? 4 votes on fuzzy? The Eevee lynch is bad and you should all feel bad.

Honestly, I'm not like super best most awesome person at reading Eevee in the WORLD, but I'm usually pretty damn good. I cannot honestly recall the last time I genuinely wanted his head when we were both town (ok, that's a lie. I did BRIEFLY on D2 of a Blitz game awhile back, but I had resolved it by the end of the day), and I REALLY cannot remember the last time I actively mislynched him. His last two scum games I've nailed him as scum D1 (even if I couldn't get a lynch through).

My point is, town!Eevee is ALWAYS controversial in some way, and he ALWAYS reads scummy for it. Scum!Eevee is much more apathetic, and has a "oh, whatever" attitude towards the game. He sits there bemoaning how awfully he's playing instead of biting at the chomp to try and be better.

This Eevee is not scum!Eevee.

I'm not italicizing that because I have some secret inside information, I'm italicizing it because I'm damn confident of my read here.

With that said, I'm going to change the focus of my reread to the 4 people on Eevee's wagon, because I find it highly doubtful that the terrible cases made on Eevee have been wholly supported by town.

[Jimmmmm]

Okay, I've had a weird feeling from mcmc all game, but haven't really been able to place it. I had a bit of a read of his only other game I and I think I know what it is now. Consider this post:

I can clarify my defensiveness right now. I'm 19 and playing a game with my brothers friends, something I have always wanted to do, I like my brother and his friends quite a bit. So if I think your misconstruing defensiveness as nervousness because i'm just that, nervous about being liked and accepted by all of you.

Even though he was scum in that game, I think this was pretty genuine.
Now bear in mind that if mcmc is Town this game, it is his first game as Town, in fact his first game for which he doesn't know the entire setup. I remember my first few games I was Town and got pretty overwhelmed because I just wanted to be right with my votes and lynches and anyone could be scum, anyone could be Town, who could I trust or listen to or who was trying to trick me? I'm just not seeing this with mcmc, and I would expect it even more from someone who has played before as scum, and who is putting pressure on himself to be liked. But he seems to be "reading" and suspecting and voting just as much as when he was scum.

So now that I've heard from him and we're voting more, I will Vote: mcmcsalot.

Jim I'm surprised to hear this from you, especiallynow that I've answered. To be clear, my vote for ashersky is the only vote I have made, I was very hesitant to vote as I expressed early on but I came to the understanding voting in normal mafia games was a backing up of your read. Also, my suspicion from you stems from the fact that I put a lot of faith in supporting your reads(interesting you use the words"who could trick me as I was yelled at by yuma I believe for saying you tried to trick me), after your case on eevee was blown up, I realized I cannot trust other peoples reads as much as I thought. Since then I have been posting all of my thoughts on players in complete and concise posts. I felt this was the best way to benefit town because more veteran players than me could use my thoughts to help find scum.

Point to where I tried to trick you. The first time I quoted Eevee's "contradiction", that was not a case, it was something I noticed and thought was strange and was looking for people's thoughts on. I then thought about it a lot more when I was offline, and came back to it was a case in my head. As I was typing it up, I noticed that the first one didn't mean exactly what I thought it meant, but instead of abandoning my case there and then I made a note of it and came back to it, as I said I would.

In terms of my thoughts on you, I'm not quite sure how to best explain it, but you're just striking me as a lot more similar to how you were in your first game than I would expect, and you're not striking me as a first-time Town player.

[Robz888]

Time for a POST COUNT. Here is everyone, in order of total posts.

1/2. Jimmmmm 53
1/2. Robz 53
3. Eevee 44
4. ashersky 41
5. Raerae 34
6. Galzria 32
7. Cuzz 30
8. yuma 22
9. Shraeye 21
10. mcmcsalot 20
11/12. Dsell 13
11/12. Glooble 13
13. sparky/themunch 12
14/15. liopoil 9
14/15. theorel 9

The average number of posts per player is 27.

[Robz888]

Pausing in my reread as I just saw the latest votecount, but really? 4 votes on fuzzy? The Eevee lynch is bad and you should all feel bad.

Honestly, I'm not like super best most awesome person at reading Eevee in the WORLD, but I'm usually pretty damn good. I cannot honestly recall the last time I genuinely wanted his head when we were both town (ok, that's a lie. I did BRIEFLY on D2 of a Blitz game awhile back, but I had resolved it by the end of the day), and I REALLY cannot remember the last time I actively mislynched him. His last two scum games I've nailed him as scum D1 (even if I couldn't get a lynch through).

My point is, town!Eevee is ALWAYS controversial in some way, and he ALWAYS reads scummy for it. Scum!Eevee is much more apathetic, and has a "oh, whatever" attitude towards the game. He sits there bemoaning how awfully he's playing instead of biting at the chomp to try and be better.

This Eevee is not scum!Eevee.

I'm not italicizing that because I have some secret inside information, I'm italicizing it because I'm damn confident of my read here.

With that said, I'm going to change the focus of my reread to the 4 people on Eevee's wagon, because I find it highly doubtful that the terrible cases made on Eevee have been wholly supported by town.

Terrible? Terrible?? Come on man, the cases on Eevee aren't terrible. Maybe you don't buy them but they really aren't terrible. objectively, they aren't. Jimm's contradiction thing ended up being unsound, but there's a lot more to it. Ugh.

[Galzria]

How the hell am I above average?

[ashersky]

Time for a POST COUNT. Here is everyone, in order of total posts.

1/2. Jimmmmm 53
1/2. Robz 53
3. Eevee 44
4. ashersky 41
5. Raerae 34
6. Galzria 32
7. Cuzz 30
8. yuma 22
9. Shraeye 21
10. mcmcsalot 20
11/12. Dsell 13
11/12. Glooble 13
13. sparky/themunch 12
14/15. liopoil 9
14/15. theorel 9

The average number of posts per player is 27.

The cut off for LALL is probably from 10th to 11th place.  From your comments, it sounds like you think folks need to post at least more than Glooble?  This is my first game with him.

Where's theo?  I know he's usually low on the post counts, given he writes longer, thoughtful poem-like treatises, but last place for him is a bit low.

[Robz888]

How the hell am I above average?

Yeah. So I retract my criticisms of you in that regard. But man, even you thought you were lurking!

[Robz888]

The post count turned out pretty anti-intuitive, I would say. People who I thought were lurking actually aren't. People who I thought had solid contributions are a little on the low side.

My two biggest suspects are two of the top three posters (and the other is me). That worries me, since in a vacuum, scum aligned players write fewer posts than town-aligned players. However, people who come under suspicion end up posting more than others. So it's a bit of a catch-22.

[ashersky]

Robz/Galz, what's your take on Shraeye's elusiveness?  He's constantly been saying he'll give his reads later, holding them back on purposes, etc.  Scummy?  Not scummy?

[Robz888]

Time for a POST COUNT. Here is everyone, in order of total posts.

1/2. Jimmmmm 53
1/2. Robz 53
3. Eevee 44
4. ashersky 41
5. Raerae 34
6. Galzria 32
7. Cuzz 30
8. yuma 22
9. Shraeye 21
10. mcmcsalot 20
11/12. Dsell 13
11/12. Glooble 13
13. sparky/themunch 12
14/15. liopoil 9
14/15. theorel 9

The average number of posts per player is 27.

The cut off for LALL is probably from 10th to 11th place.  From your comments, it sounds like you think folks need to post at least more than Glooble?  This is my first game with him.

Where's theo?  I know he's usually low on the post counts, given he writes longer, thoughtful poem-like treatises, but last place for him is a bit low.

Yeah, but the only person below that point who I have even a slight scum!read on is Glooble himself.

[ashersky]

Time for a POST COUNT. Here is everyone, in order of total posts.

1/2. Jimmmmm 53
1/2. Robz 53
3. Eevee 44
4. ashersky 41
5. Raerae 34
6. Galzria 32
7. Cuzz 30
8. yuma 22
9. Shraeye 21
10. mcmcsalot 20
11/12. Dsell 13
11/12. Glooble 13
13. sparky/themunch 12
14/15. liopoil 9
14/15. theorel 9

The average number of posts per player is 27.

The cut off for LALL is probably from 10th to 11th place.  From your comments, it sounds like you think folks need to post at least more than Glooble?  This is my first game with him.

Where's theo?  I know he's usually low on the post counts, given he writes longer, thoughtful poem-like treatises, but last place for him is a bit low.

Yeah, but the only person below that point who I have even a slight scum!read on is Glooble himself.

LALL doesn't take scumreads into account, though.  Not saying we use LALL at this point, obviously.  But if it came down to it...

[Jimmmmm]

Time for a POST COUNT. Here is everyone, in order of total posts.

1/2. Jimmmmm 53
1/2. Robz 53
3. Eevee 44
4. ashersky 41
5. Raerae 34
6. Galzria 32
7. Cuzz 30
8. yuma 22
9. Shraeye 21
10. mcmcsalot 20
11/12. Dsell 13
11/12. Glooble 13
13. sparky/themunch 12
14/15. liopoil 9
14/15. theorel 9

The average number of posts per player is 27.

Wow. That must be a first for me.

[ashersky]

Wow. That must be a first for me.

I see what you did there.

[Robz888]

Robz/Galz, what's your take on Shraeye's elusiveness?  He's constantly been saying he'll give his reads later, holding them back on purposes, etc.  Scummy?  Not scummy?

Shraeye has totally evaded my radar ever since I totally mis-attributed a bunch of stuff to him. I said this earlier, but I thought he was defending raerae big time, but there's actually no evidence for it, so I don't know why I thought that.

Shraeye does usually leave a bigger footprint than this. I am use to long posts from him, for one thing. And I think he's on the lower side compared to other games. He probably warrants a closer look, if that's what you're getting at.