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[theorel]

@Robz: I think I would rather lynch joth than Cuzz.  I hold to previously stated opinion that it's probably better not to lynch a PR-claim today, even though I think Cuzz is the best match for the VT-claims that I suspect.  I think Cuzz is more likely than jo or O to flip scum, but I think the cost of lynching him if he's town is higher.  Therefore I still think the best utility comes from lynching O or jo.  (I think my position on this has been pretty consistent all day)

[jotheonah]

Well, if I can't convince you otherwise I guess we should get on with it and lynch me before we run out the clock more than we have to. The end of the game will show whether I played as poorly as it seems or whether Robz and O simply played a bold, brilliant game.

If nothing else, I urge you to consider the plan for clearing Robz I brought up that he ignored:

Have Robz target a doctor (don't announce which). Have Robz (if he's alive) announce which one he targeted tomorrow, and the result of his track.  Have the doctor verify the target. 

So far we've given Robz obvtown status on the basis of easily faked claims. If nothing else, you guys have to put a stop to that tomorrow.

[Insomniac]

@Robz: I didn't hold up and wait for your analysis, I was busy myself since it was Thanksgiving up here in Canada and so it made sense since I was absent anyway.

(Still don't want jo at 3)

[Cuzz]

Please, you know, weigh in soon. It was a littl mystifying to me that the whole town halted and waited for me to review. Of course that happens in other games, too, but we have a time limit

I was waiting partly due to V/LA and partly because I'm almost certain Robz is town and value his promised input.

Now, the fact that everyone else seemed to be holding back waiting for Robz as well makes me feel like everyone else also either suspects or knows Robz to be town. This makes me really suspicious of anyone voting for Robz.

He's been oozing townvibes all game and I really doubt even he could fake it that well. None of the arguments against him have made any sense to me, to the point that those making them seem like scum. (Could he actually be scum? Of course, but as town I'm unfortunate enough not to know the setup and have to go on my gut/evidence).

This is all also a big part of my reason to vote: jotheonah

[Robz888]

Well, if I can't convince you otherwise I guess we should get on with it and lynch me before we run out the clock more than we have to. The end of the game will show whether I played as poorly as it seems or whether Robz and O simply played a bold, brilliant game.

If nothing else, I urge you to consider the plan for clearing Robz I brought up that he ignored:

Have Robz target a doctor (don't announce which). Have Robz (if he's alive) announce which one he targeted tomorrow, and the result of his track.  Have the doctor verify the target. 

So far we've given Robz obvtown status on the basis of easily faked claims. If nothing else, you guys have to put a stop to that tomorrow.

Didn't mean to ignore this. I'm not opposed to it, but I don't think it's as easy as all this, because still, the Bus Driver could mess us up, or ninja kills get in the way. And it won't really help me catch scum with my power, because let's say I track Cuzz, CUzz targeted theorel, and theorel died. Cuzz will just say he protected theorel and theorel was strongman killed. But anyway, I'm not opposed to this plan, and if people insist on me tracking Cuzz/Grujah, I will do so. However, at present I am likely to make an informed decision after the flip, so as not to tip the scum off to who I will track.

FYI, I certainly hope Grujah and Cuzz do not just pledge to protect each other. Please randomly protect me too!

[Cuzz]

Well, if I can't convince you otherwise I guess we should get on with it and lynch me before we run out the clock more than we have to. The end of the game will show whether I played as poorly as it seems or whether Robz and O simply played a bold, brilliant game.

If nothing else, I urge you to consider the plan for clearing Robz I brought up that he ignored:

Have Robz target a doctor (don't announce which). Have Robz (if he's alive) announce which one he targeted tomorrow, and the result of his track.  Have the doctor verify the target. 

So far we've given Robz obvtown status on the basis of easily faked claims. If nothing else, you guys have to put a stop to that tomorrow.

Trying to direct the tracker away from your scumbuddy?

[jotheonah]

Please, you know, weigh in soon. It was a littl mystifying to me that the whole town halted and waited for me to review. Of course that happens in other games, too, but we have a time limit

I was waiting partly due to V/LA and partly because I'm almost certain Robz is town and value his promised input.

Now, the fact that everyone else seemed to be holding back waiting for Robz as well makes me feel like everyone else also either suspects or knows Robz to be town. This makes me really suspicious of anyone voting for Robz.

He's been oozing townvibes all game and I really doubt even he could fake it that well. None of the arguments against him have made any sense to me, to the point that those making them seem like scum. (Could he actually be scum? Of course, but as town I'm unfortunate enough not to know the setup and have to go on my gut/evidence).

This is all also a big part of my reason to vote: jotheonah

Does this mean when I flip town you'll reconsider?

[jotheonah]

Well, if I can't convince you otherwise I guess we should get on with it and lynch me before we run out the clock more than we have to. The end of the game will show whether I played as poorly as it seems or whether Robz and O simply played a bold, brilliant game.

If nothing else, I urge you to consider the plan for clearing Robz I brought up that he ignored:

Have Robz target a doctor (don't announce which). Have Robz (if he's alive) announce which one he targeted tomorrow, and the result of his track.  Have the doctor verify the target. 

So far we've given Robz obvtown status on the basis of easily faked claims. If nothing else, you guys have to put a stop to that tomorrow.

Trying to direct the tracker away from your scumbuddy?

If that's your concern, agree only to do it if I flip town. (Which I will)

[Robz888]

Well, if I can't convince you otherwise I guess we should get on with it and lynch me before we run out the clock more than we have to. The end of the game will show whether I played as poorly as it seems or whether Robz and O simply played a bold, brilliant game.

If nothing else, I urge you to consider the plan for clearing Robz I brought up that he ignored:

Have Robz target a doctor (don't announce which). Have Robz (if he's alive) announce which one he targeted tomorrow, and the result of his track.  Have the doctor verify the target. 

So far we've given Robz obvtown status on the basis of easily faked claims. If nothing else, you guys have to put a stop to that tomorrow.

Trying to direct the tracker away from your scumbuddy?

Right, there's that aspect too.

[Insomniac]

Well, if I can't convince you otherwise I guess we should get on with it and lynch me before we run out the clock more than we have to. The end of the game will show whether I played as poorly as it seems or whether Robz and O simply played a bold, brilliant game.

If nothing else, I urge you to consider the plan for clearing Robz I brought up that he ignored:

Have Robz target a doctor (don't announce which). Have Robz (if he's alive) announce which one he targeted tomorrow, and the result of his track.  Have the doctor verify the target. 

So far we've given Robz obvtown status on the basis of easily faked claims. If nothing else, you guys have to put a stop to that tomorrow.

Didn't mean to ignore this. I'm not opposed to it, but I don't think it's as easy as all this, because still, the Bus Driver could mess us up, or ninja kills get in the way. And it won't really help me catch scum with my power, because let's say I track Cuzz, CUzz targeted theorel, and theorel died. Cuzz will just say he protected theorel and theorel was strongman killed. But anyway, I'm not opposed to this plan, and if people insist on me tracking Cuzz/Grujah, I will do so. However, at present I am likely to make an informed decision after the flip, so as not to tip the scum off to who I will track.

FYI, I certainly hope Grujah and Cuzz do not just pledge to protect each other. Please randomly protect me too!

That definetly makes Cuzz guilty because he targeted Frisk and claims that Frisk was strongmanned we know mafia can only do it once, and I highly doubt the presense of a serial killer based on whats happened.

[Insomniac]

Addendum, I definetly think Robz should make his own secret decision as opposed to being told what to do and letting mafia know how to treat the scenario.

[Cuzz]

Please, you know, weigh in soon. It was a littl mystifying to me that the whole town halted and waited for me to review. Of course that happens in other games, too, but we have a time limit

I was waiting partly due to V/LA and partly because I'm almost certain Robz is town and value his promised input.

Now, the fact that everyone else seemed to be holding back waiting for Robz as well makes me feel like everyone else also either suspects or knows Robz to be town. This makes me really suspicious of anyone voting for Robz.

He's been oozing townvibes all game and I really doubt even he could fake it that well. None of the arguments against him have made any sense to me, to the point that those making them seem like scum. (Could he actually be scum? Of course, but as town I'm unfortunate enough not to know the setup and have to go on my gut/evidence).

This is all also a big part of my reason to vote: jotheonah

Does this mean when I flip town you'll reconsider?

No. When you flip town, causing me to have been grossly mistaken about one of my strongest reads, I will not reconsider any of my other reads. /s

[O]

I very much prefer a theorel lynch to a Jotheonah lynch.

[Voltgloss]

Vote Count 3-4

Robz888 (2): Grujah, jotheonah
theorel (1): O
jotheonah (2): Cuzz, Robz888

Not voting {2}: Insomniac, theorel

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch

Lynch deadline: Thursday, October 18, 3:00 p.m. EDT

[Robz888]

Well, I would encourage Insomniac and theorel to allow for perhaps one more day of discussion, and then go for it.

I don't get Grujah in this game, but whatever.

[Insomniac]

Well, I would encourage Insomniac and theorel to allow for perhaps one more day of discussion, and then go for it.

I don't get Grujah in this game, but whatever.

That's all I really want before voting, I think that Jo is likely scum, but I don't think we need to close this day early either. I don't feel like we've heard a whole lot from Grujah for example and as one of my scum candidates (from the VP perspective) I'd like to make sure that all the PR's have a fair amount of substance to hold them accountable to make the PoE easier when we do need to eventually lynch a claimed PR.

[Robz888]

Well, I would encourage Insomniac and theorel to allow for perhaps one more day of discussion, and then go for it.

I don't get Grujah in this game, but whatever.

That's all I really want before voting, I think that Jo is likely scum, but I don't think we need to close this day early either. I don't feel like we've heard a whole lot from Grujah for example and as one of my scum candidates (from the VP perspective) I'd like to make sure that all the PR's have a fair amount of substance to hold them accountable to make the PoE easier when we do need to eventually lynch a claimed PR.

Yeah, that's fair. Grujah is so weird in this game. I can hardly believe it's the same Grujah from MIX and MVI. He just lurks so much here! I would really believe he was the SK just on the basis of how absurdly different he is behaving. But he really can't be aligned with sparky, I think.

[Cuzz]

Well, if I can't convince you otherwise I guess we should get on with it and lynch me before we run out the clock more than we have to. The end of the game will show whether I played as poorly as it seems or whether Robz and O simply played a bold, brilliant game.

If nothing else, I urge you to consider the plan for clearing Robz I brought up that he ignored:

Have Robz target a doctor (don't announce which). Have Robz (if he's alive) announce which one he targeted tomorrow, and the result of his track.  Have the doctor verify the target. 

So far we've given Robz obvtown status on the basis of easily faked claims. If nothing else, you guys have to put a stop to that tomorrow.

Didn't mean to ignore this. I'm not opposed to it, but I don't think it's as easy as all this, because still, the Bus Driver could mess us up, or ninja kills get in the way. And it won't really help me catch scum with my power, because let's say I track Cuzz, CUzz targeted theorel, and theorel died. Cuzz will just say he protected theorel and theorel was strongman killed. But anyway, I'm not opposed to this plan, and if people insist on me tracking Cuzz/Grujah, I will do so. However, at present I am likely to make an informed decision after the flip, so as not to tip the scum off to who I will track.

FYI, I certainly hope Grujah and Cuzz do not just pledge to protect each other. Please randomly protect me too!

That definetly makes Cuzz guilty because he targeted Frisk and claims that Frisk was strongmanned we know mafia can only do it once, and I highly doubt the presense of a serial killer based on whats happened.

Well, I would encourage Insomniac and theorel to allow for perhaps one more day of discussion, and then go for it.

I don't get Grujah in this game, but whatever.

That's all I really want before voting, I think that Jo is likely scum, but I don't think we need to close this day early either. I don't feel like we've heard a whole lot from Grujah for example and as one of my scum candidates (from the VP perspective) I'd like to make sure that all the PR's have a fair amount of substance to hold them accountable to make the PoE easier when we do need to eventually lynch a claimed PR.

Why so certain that there's no SK, guy-who's-been-accused-of-being-SK?

Sure there's some missing night kills but there are many plausible explanations for that.

[jotheonah]

A lot of you guys have played with me before. I know your guts are telling you I'm town.

[Robz888]

A lot of you guys have played with me before. I know your guts are telling you I'm town.

My gut does tell me that, sort-of. Am I worried this is MIV all over again? Sort-of. But the evidence says you are scum. You have been wildly in favor of lynching each and every PR, before and after their claims. You wanted everything yesterday... except a sparky lynch.

[Insomniac]

As a scientist I doubt things until proven their existence. Since I have only been given MORE evidence that there is not a SK I will continue to doubt it until given evidence of the contrary.

[Grujah]

I'm still not convinced that Grujah is telling the truth, but I don't see any downside to the following proposal:

Grujah, if (big if) we are fortunate enough to lynch the mafia busdriver today, will you agree to protect me tonight, and I'll do the same for you? That would leave only the mafia JOAT left, and he can't kill and roleblock in the same night.

Of course, if the busdriver is still alive tonight, we shouldn't give any indication of whom we plan to protect.

Depends on lynch result. As I said, with no substantial proof of SK, I am most suspicious of you and Robz. Robz flipping mafia would completely clear you in my eyes, as would an SK flip. Otherwise I would have to re-evaluate the situation and see what I find most likely to be true.

[Cuzz]

I'm still not convinced that Grujah is telling the truth, but I don't see any downside to the following proposal:

Grujah, if (big if) we are fortunate enough to lynch the mafia busdriver today, will you agree to protect me tonight, and I'll do the same for you? That would leave only the mafia JOAT left, and he can't kill and roleblock in the same night.

Of course, if the busdriver is still alive tonight, we shouldn't give any indication of whom we plan to protect.

Depends on lynch result. As I said, with no substantial proof of SK, I am most suspicious of you and Robz. Robz flipping mafia would completely clear you in my eyes, as would an SK flip. Otherwise I would have to re-evaluate the situation and see what I find most likely to be true.

I've actually nixed this idea after theorel's comment. We need to protect Robz with some probability.

[Grujah]

Jotheonah: However, Jo takes the prize over theorel (though I still expect they are both scum). Why? Jo wanted to lynch O. He wanted to lynch me. He supported lynching Grujah. He supported JK claiming and mass-claiming. He supported all these things strongly. The only thing that gave him pause was lynching sparky. If he's not mafia, it's quite a mistake. But it sure looks scummy.

Ugh, these are some actually valid points. Mostly I hate massclaimsupport, but it was town-CF's idea which is weird.I also hate these recent of his "you're gut tells you I'm town". It's trying to make his voters feel guilty, it's a low-blow
But his overly-agresive pushing of O, ("VOTE O VOTE O VOTE O") was just soo town-jo, and there were other things that slip my mind right now .. blaarghsigh.


I'd still very much prefer a Robz or possibly Cuzz lynch as no SK has presented itself yet.

[O]

So lynch Theorel. He fits all the scumminess that Joth fits, and has the added benefit of being my choice if you trust me over Robz (I think Robz is town but obviously would rather I pick the lynch over him).

I haven't seen convincing arguments for why Joth is a good lynch compared to Theorel, and I think Joth's activity is very much like his town activity (AKA he's amazingly wrong most of the time).