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[ashersky]

If EFHW was here, I'd hammer to lock the thread to keep the IC from claiming stuff for scum!voltaire.

THe fact you aren't hammering has me so curious. So so so so so so so so so so so so so curious.

Why won't you hammer your partner?

I'm trying to figure out if you're refusing to do the same thing!

sudgy's online, I'm not going to preempt the IC.

[Voltaire]

I am going to assume non-gross incompetence on the part of theoretical, not-present town!xp. Because that is the thing that matters here, not ash, the maybe-partner. Why the self-vote, why the lying, why the insanity on xp. The problem is I' ve seen town do this before (shraye, cop in NMV) and ash with plans (Clue) and yuma, just yuma, argh meta. So...sudgy, I take it you're not claiming?

[ashersky]

vote: XP

[Voltaire]

ho boy

[ashersky]

I cannot believe you were going to try to save XP.  INSANE.  What is wrong with you?  Like, if you are town, why?  But if you are scum, as I believe WHY?

[Voltaire]

Trying to figure out if you are his partner, or if he was terrible town and you scum jumping on his insanity.

[Voltaire]

also sudgy time to claim

this iwas in m y clipboard


vote: xp

[ashersky]

also sudgy time to claim

No, NO CLAIMING.

[ashersky]

Trying to figure out if you are his partner, or if he was terrible town and you scum jumping on his insanity.

That's dumb, I wasn't the one who got his wagon/case going.  If you think XP is town (why in the world do you think this?) then look at the start of this wagon and case for the "scum" pushing it.

Oh, wait, that's WW, whom you think is the most perfect of all town players ever.

[Voltaire]

also sudgy time to claim

No, NO CLAIMING.

Explain why WW's plan doesn't work.

I also meant not hammering to give sudgy time to claim N0 items to help CATCH XP's PARTNER

[ashersky]

Actually it was faust, I take that WW part back.

[Voltaire]

Actually it was faust, I take that WW part back.

You can't even keep your tunneling straight.

[ashersky]

also sudgy time to claim

No, NO CLAIMING.

Explain why WW's plan doesn't work.

I also meant not hammering to give sudgy time to claim N0 items to help CATCH XP's PARTNER

You clearly haven't read anything I've said.

WW's plan is "sudgy claims."  That's his entire f'ing plan.  Tell me how that's a great plan, man.

So sudgy claims, then we all get to know what item he had.  And it tells us zilch, because if knowing sudgy's item helps us catch scum, sudgy would have already told us in his post about how he got all the items.  He would have said "oh, so all these items came, but it's impossible that X and Y sent me Z because I ALREADY HAD ONE" or something.

So, if sudgy claims, we get nothing.  However, scum gets more (read: all) information.

WW continues to believe that a sudgy claim let's us narrow the lynch pool of possible scum who lied about sending an item to about 50% of what's there now.  I continue to tell him that it doesn't really work that way, as you're only really removing 1/3 of the lynch pool (assuming the papers are all honest, which I'm not).  Because that's the biggest flaw -- it completely takes Papers out of the equation, but really, there could easily be scum in the Papers group, too.

So no, sudgy claiming gives us nothing.

[ashersky]

Actually it was faust, I take that WW part back.

You can't even keep your tunneling straight.

Sometimes tunnels curve, depending on the mountain.

I'm not tunneling WW anyway, you are just freaking out about me having him in my lynch pool.

You and Faust are most likely, followed by WW and yuma.  That's not tunneling, that's just being incredibly awesome.

[Voltaire]

You go so far back and forth between me and faust and WW and yuma and anyone worried about you. You're scattershot, man.

WW's plan is more than "sudgy claims". It's "that lets us figure out POE for other scum people", which you conveniently leave out.

[Voltaire]

flippy flippy flip flip flip

[ashersky]

You go so far back and forth between me and faust and WW and yuma and anyone worried about you. You're scattershot, man.

WW's plan is more than "sudgy claims". It's "that lets us figure out POE for other scum people", which you conveniently leave out.

No one is worried about me except you.

Does it really let us figure out POE for other scum people?  Because I just laid out how it doesn't.

If I'm the lying scum, knowing sudgy's starting item doesn't help you at all.  Same for PPS or Jimmmmm or you or WW or anyone.  That's why it isn't helpful to anyone but scum.

[faust]

Vote: Voltaire

I think we should pull a Jimmmm and leave the caught scum around for easy lynching later.  It's clear we'll catch his partners through interactions, and I'm seeing them come together already since he's shot himself in the foot.

Voltaire: have you ever had a best friend that you caught sleeping with your girlfriend?  That's the level of betrayal I'm feeling from you right now (in the context of the game).  You did a great job of buddying this game, and I bought it.  I'm sorry I did.  I won't be interacting with you anymore (in this game).

I am willing to vote for the following subset of players, in descending order of preference, and will only change my vote at the behest of sudgy:

Voltaire
ashersky
faust
WW
yuma
Xerxes

I'm confident the three scum we seek are within that five players, based on what we've seen so far on Days 1 and 2, especially looking at interactions with and on XP.  Voltaire for over-the-top scumminess, faust for D1 stuff and odd defenders, WW for his too-good-to-be-true towniness and his IC-item fishing, yuma for my townread on him + defense of faust, and XP for being caught scum.

One very good course of action would be to just lynch XP and figure stuff out on D3.  If that's what sudgy prefers, I'll adhere to it.  But I do think a Jimmmmm is worth considering.  It would have helped town (I think) in Choc Fact when he caught me as a Cop.  It would be useful here.  You'd have to be strong about ignoring everything XP says.  We've never tried it before on f.ds and it's worth a shot.

I'm open to listening to sudgy and a few others, but not XP or Voltaire at this point.

Huge FOS on ashersky for this. Xerxes still has items he can use against us, or send to his fellow mafia players. Having him stay alive one more night is exactly what scum wants, so that they can squeeze all the usefulness out of him before losing him.

[xeiron]

Why the early hammer?

Anyway, Sudgy should claim. We cannot be sure that he will survive the night.

If he does , we will reduce one of the mafia down to 4 persons (the 3/4 who sent a item other than paper and the one sudgy has.

The other mafia can still be anybody. (either yuma, or somebody who atually sent to sudgy what he claimed to send).

[pingpongsam]

Well, it appears we do have a hammer so I'm treating this as twilight.

If there is scum between Volatire/ashersky I would pick Voltaire based strictly off of emotive gut reads which I like to think I am good at. The one person I would be surprised to discover to be scum is WitherWeaver, however. I have been suspicious of his overly pro-town play but I can't fault it although I do agree getting sudgy to claim has been on his agenda. I feel good about xeiron being town.

I am anxious to see which way xerxes flip. I think I will be surprised if he is Town and i ma having trouble parsing what that means for who would then appear to be scum. I believe I will trouble myself with that exercise if he flips town. I do think yuma stands a decent chance of being scum although overall his play strikes me as Town. His D1 play really reads as scum!yuma, though. I think it likely he got coached out of that behavior in the QT last night.

faust/ashersky I am ambivalent on. Jimmmmm and ADK both deserve a policy lynch and may easily be lurking scum.

the good news for me here is that I've found a much better perspective of lots of scummy possibilities rather than a tunnel although Voltaire remains a top possibility.

[Witherweaver]

Why the early hammer?

Anyway, Sudgy should claim. We cannot be sure that he will survive the night.

If he does , we will reduce one of the mafia down to 4 persons (the 3/4 who sent a item other than paper and the one sudgy has.

The other mafia can still be anybody. (either yuma, or somebody who atually sent to sudgy what he claimed to send).

Right, this.  The point is as long as Archetype sent an item, then one scum claimed to send that item but actually sent nothing.  That's the only way the numbers work out.

So if we can narrow down what item Arch started with we can narrow down where that scum is.

[Witherweaver]

You go so far back and forth between me and faust and WW and yuma and anyone worried about you. You're scattershot, man.

WW's plan is more than "sudgy claims". It's "that lets us figure out POE for other scum people", which you conveniently leave out.

No one is worried about me except you.

Does it really let us figure out POE for other scum people?  Because I just laid out how it doesn't.

If I'm the lying scum, knowing sudgy's starting item doesn't help you at all.  Same for PPS or Jimmmmm or you or WW or anyone.  That's why it isn't helpful to anyone but scum.

So I had had it in my head last night that we were able to exclude this case, but now I'm not so sure.   

[Voltaire]

EFHW has been active on the forums since the hammer, but no lock and flip. 

[XerxesPraelor]

Well, I'm scum, in case you were still worried.

[Voltaire]

Well, I'm scum, in case you were still worried.

+1 nice points for you, sir!