Dominion Strategy Forum
Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: sudgy on August 08, 2013, 02:47:18 pm
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Welcome to NewMafia IV
(If you want the spec QT, PM me)
This game is a newbie game. As such, new players will get priority signups, and this game will have a simple setup.
This game should have six newbies and three vets.
A newbie is defined here as someone who has not completed any games on f.ds. Vets are people who have completed at least three. If we don't fill up in a reasonable amount of time, we'll change this. If too many of one group want to play, they will be decided randomly.
Player list: (newbies marked in green, and vets marked in red)
Mod: sudgy
1. Gveoniz VT killed N2
2. faust
3. jon117killer Cop Lynched D2
4. Jdaki
5. Cuttlebone
6. BoxOfDOG
7. Twistedarcher VT Killed N1
8. chairs
9. Archetype VT Lynched D1
Co-Mod: mail-mi
Subs:
Basic Mafia Ruleset
The Golden Rule:
Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun! Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game.
Please read The Civility Pledge (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7695.0) before signing up for this game. If you have not /pledged there, you cannot play here.
Excessive personal attacks or uncivil behavior may be dealt with by modifiers or modkills.
General Gameplay and Etiquette:
1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind. Paraphrasing (for role claims, etc.) is acceptable.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings unless your role PM specifically allows it. Mafia members may communicate at night and during the confirmation stage.
3. If you have a role with a Night action your choices are due to all mods by the posted deadline (generally 48 hours from Night start during the first few Nights; later Nights may have shorter deadlines). If we do not receive your PM by the posted deadline you will forfeit your actions. In case of multiple submissions, the last valid one before the deadline will be used.
4. Roles with Night actions will not be able to submit an action on Night 0 (i.e. during the confirmation stage).
5. Any player with a Night action may instead submit a “No Action” PM to let the Mods know that you do not want to perform your expected action that Night phase.
6. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 24 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.
Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:
1. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for a lynch to occur prior to deadline.
2. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate. Further votes will also be ignored.
3. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until I post a death scene; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
4. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName. Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax! Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
5. Please submit vote revocations as either Unvote: PlayerName or Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
6. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
7. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post in the game or in Quicktopics. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent, but will be invited to the Spectator Quicktopic.
8. Do not edit or delete posts. We don't want some players having more information than others. If you want to clarify posts, feel free to double post. Mods will not edit posts for you.
9. This game will have 12 day Day deadlines and 48-hour Night deadlines.
Miscellaneous/Mechanics:
1. Bold, colored text is reserved for the Mods. No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography. [/color]
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please PM the Mods privately. Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mods may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently. Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed. These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mods so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players will be issued automatically after 48 hours of no activity or upon request after 24 hours of no activity. A prodded player has 48 hours to respond or risks replacement. A player who has been prodded 2 times is subject to replacement without further notice.
6. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, up to and including a Modkill.
7. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread. Treat this game as a commitment. Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.
Helpful Links:
--Main Wiki Page (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page)
--Newbie Guide (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Newbie_Guide)
--Frequently Asked Questions (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=FAQ)
--Commonly Used Abbreviations (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Commonly_used_abbreviations)
--Mafia Theory (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Theory)
TO CLARIFY, I AM NOT A MODERATOR OF F.DS IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS GAME, I AM MODERATING THAT THE RULES ARE FOLLOWED AND HIDDEN ACTIONS ARE COMPLETED PROPERLY.
GAME SET-UP AND ROLES LISTED IN NEXT POST
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This game will use the Matrix6 (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Matrix6) setup.
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|Town Jailkeeper |Vanilla Townie|Mafia Goon |
|Mafia Roleblocker |Town Cop |Town Doctor |
|1-Shot Bulletproof Townie|Mafia Goon |Town Tracker|
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This setup will take a random row or column of the above matrix and add five Vanilla Townies and one Mafia Goon to the three randomly selected. So, in the end, there are six possible variations:
6 Vanilla Townies, 1 Town Jailkeeper, 2 Mafia Goons
5 Vanilla Townies, 1 Town Cop, 1 Town Doctor, 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker
5 Vanilla Townies, 1 1-Shot Bulletproof Townie, 1 Town Tracker, 2 Mafia Goons
5 Vanilla Townies, 1 1-Shot Bulletproof Townie, 1 Town Jailkeeper, 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker
6 Vanilla Townies, 1 Town Cop, 2 Mafia Goons
5 Vanilla Townies, 1 Town Doctor, 1 Town Tracker, 2 Mafia Goons
All possible PMs are here:
Role: Vanilla Townie
Abilities:
You have no special abilities beyond the right to vote.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.
Role: 1-Shot Bulletproof Townie
Abilities:
One attempt to kill (not lynch) will fail on you. After you have been tried to be killed once, you may be killed like normal.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.
Role: Town Cop
Abilities:
Each night, you may investigate a player in the game by sending the mods a PM. You will get results back in the form of “Town,” “Antitown,” or “No Result.”
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.
Role: Town Doctor
Abilities:
Each night, you may target one player to protect in the to protect them from one nightkill. You may not self target.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.
Role: Town Jailkeeper
Abilities:
Each night, you may target one player in the game, whom you will protect from the nightkill and roleblock simultaneously. You may not self target.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.
Role: Town Tracker
Abilities:
Each night, You may target a player to be tracked by sending the mods a PM. You will know who that player targeted in the same night phase. You will get results back in the form of "Name(s)", "None", or "No Result".
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.
Role: Mafia Goon
Abilities:
Factional communication: During the confirmation stage and nights, you may talk with your partner here: Quicktopic Link.
Factional kill: Each night phase, you or your partner may perform the factional kill.
Win condition:
You win when mafia obtain a majority of town or nothing can stop this from happening.
Role: Mafia Roleblocker
Abilities:
Factional communication: During the confirmation stage and nights, you may talk with your partner here: Quicktopic Link.
Factional kill: Each night phase, you or your partner may perform the factional kill.
Roleblock: Each night, you may target a player, thus causing any attempted actions to fail for the current night phase. Your target will not be notified of this. You may perfom this ability in addition to the factional kill.
Win condition:
You win when mafia obtain a majority of town or nothing can stop this from happening.
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So I'm partway between a newbie and a vet, yay!
Serious question though: I've been telling my girlfriend about forum mafia, she's my main Dominion partner and she's played real-life mafia at conventions and parties and whatnot, so she isn't some clueless non-gamer. She is generally less talkative and has worse spelling than me. Should I try to get her to sign up and join this? Or are you mainly looking for established forumpersons?
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So I'm partway between a newbie and a vet, yay!
Serious question though: I've been telling my girlfriend about forum mafia, she's my main Dominion partner and she's played real-life mafia at conventions and parties and whatnot, so she isn't some clueless non-gamer. She is generally less talkative and has worse spelling than me. Should I try to get her to sign up and join this? Or are you mainly looking for established forumpersons?
We're looking for both, go ahead and invite her! I've invited a friend (he was too busy to stick though), and sometimes people who haven't ever played but have been on the forums for a while play too.
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It's NewMafia, UoS, so this would be a great place to start! Tell her to sign up if she's interested!
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/tag
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also for anyone wondering... I am considering this game as an "official game" for stat keeping purposes. I know there was some confusion about that in the last newbie game that was run.
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raerae is at the forums because I convinced her to join; i say it's a good idea.
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/modmodmodmod
Can I haz mod QT?
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/modmodmodmod
Can I haz mod QT?
I was going to make it when all players had signed up.
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/tag - I guess I'm a vet now?
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/tag
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Who exactly is this game for, Sudgy? I'm not interested because I'm already in 3!! mafia games (which I may regret in the near future.. I hope not!), but what percentage new players vs vets are you looking for?
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Who exactly is this game for, Sudgy? I'm not interested because I'm already in 3!! mafia games (which I may regret in the near future.. I hope not!), but what percentage new players vs vets are you looking for?
This game should have six newbies and three vets.
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Generally, these games start when the newbie portion is full. Like, if 6 new players showed up, you'd have 3 vets ready to fill to get it going. We want new blood.
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Too shy to sign up, but still /in
I am a newbie.
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Too shy to sign up, but still /in
I am a newbie.
Yay!
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Too shy to sign up, but still /in
I am a newbie.
Welcome! Hope you enjoy this game of mafia and the surrounding community that has been built here. Let us know if you have any questions!
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Too shy to sign up, but still /in
I am a newbie.
Delightful, hope you enjoy it!
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Thank you!
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Too shy to sign up, but still /in
I am a newbie.
Welcome! I'm (pretty) sure you'll enjoy it.
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/tag
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/tag
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I suggest the topic title be adjusted to more clearly advertise this thread is for sign-ups for a newbie mafia game. If I were a total newbie browsing Forum Games, I wouldn't know what "NewMafia IV" meant.
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I think I'd like to give this a try, so /in
I'm probably a newbie, played a few games in real-life, but never online.
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I think I'd like to give this a try, so /in
I'm probably a newbie, played a few games in real-life, but never online.
Welcome!
It's supposed to be online. I'm trying to convince a few friends I know irl to play, and they've played a bunch there.
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/in
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Yay more players!
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/tag, and huzzah for new members!
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/in
Hehehe...
(For those wondering, I know him irl, so that's why I'm not greeting him like usual)
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/in
Hehehe...
(For those wondering, I know him irl, so that's why I'm not greeting him like usual)
I figured you were just being extra creepy today. ;)
Hi sudgy's friend! Your username is perfect for Mafia!
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I have never played Mafia before, though have played Resistance irl a couple of times. I guess the fact there are dozens of games in this forum is recommendation enough...
I would like in, but depends on start time- I am unlikely to be very active over the next week, though if it does start I can probably manage the 1 post / 24 hours. :)
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I have never played Mafia before, though have played Resistance irl a couple of times. I guess the fact there are dozens of games in this forum is recommendation enough...
I would like in, but depends on start time- I am unlikely to be very active over the next week, though if it does start I can probably manage the 1 post / 24 hours. :)
It will probably still take a couple weeks, we still need to wait for two more newbies. I'll sign you up, but if it seems like it's starting before you want, just say so, and I'll take you out.
And welcome!
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I have never played Mafia before, though have played Resistance irl a couple of times. I guess the fact there are dozens of games in this forum is recommendation enough...
I would like in, but depends on start time- I am unlikely to be very active over the next week, though if it does start I can probably manage the 1 post / 24 hours. :)
Also, you need to /pledge the Civility Pledge (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7695.0) before you play. It's simple enough.
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Hey there all, I'd like to join. I'm a friend of TwistedArcher.
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Hey there all, I'd like to join. I'm a friend of TwistedArcher.
yay! Welcome.
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Hey there all, I'd like to join. I'm a friend of TwistedArcher.
why? that guy sucks.. don't be friends with him.
(welcome!)
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Hey there all, I'd like to join. I'm a friend of TwistedArcher.
Welcome! Remember to /pledge the Civility Pledge.
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We still need three more vets. The game should start when the last newbie signs up, so any vets interested should say so.
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I seeee a SPACE FOR A NOOBIE!
/in
MUAHAHAHAH!
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I seeee a SPACE FOR A NOOBIE!
/in
MUAHAHAHAH!
HAHAHAH! YOU HAVE RETURNED!
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As soon as three vets sign up, this will start.
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Can I have one of the spots, since my friend joined? I'd like nothing more than to deceive him :D
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Can I have one of the spots, since my friend joined? I'd like nothing more than to deceive him :D
Sure.
Also, Jdaki needs to /pledge before we start...
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I think I qualify as a vet know ohgod.
/in
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*now
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One more! Cmon someone!
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This is weird... The vets signing up started playing mafia on here after me...
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Well I don't think I qualify as a vet...
;)
/in. The first couple weeks of school are easy anyway.
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Yay! PMs!!!
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Jdaki still hasn't /pledged the civility pledge...
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That means he can be super mean! Yeaaaahhh jdaki!
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Not anymore :(. Not that I would have, right?
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Alright, I'm going to be getting everything set up now. Signups are closed, and N0/Confirmation stage will start when I get PMs out.
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All PMs sent, please confirm your receipt of your PM by replying to it saying something like "/confirmed". D1 will start tomorrow night some time (can't guarantee a specific time). Meanwhile, Thread Locked.
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I've had a couple of the new players ask about questions of how the game is played. The "Helpful Links" section is where that is. The Newbie Guide especially. If you have any questions about how the game is played, please look at the following links:
Helpful Links:
--Main Wiki Page (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page)
--Newbie Guide (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Newbie_Guide)
--Frequently Asked Questions (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=FAQ)
--Commonly Used Abbreviations (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Commonly_used_abbreviations)
--Mafia Theory (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Theory)
Also, due to certain circumstances, the game will start tomorrow when I can (which is later than it is for some)
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In the small town of Samadush (Population: 11), Sudgy, the mayor, called everybody to come to the town hall to discuss important matters. When they went there, they found...that he was dead. They knew someone in their town was responsible. Mail-mi told them all that they needed to figure out who was responsible, and hang them for this horrible deed.
DAY 1 START
THREAD UNLOCKED
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FIIIRRRSSSTTT
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Hi, what shall we do now?
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Probably get some lunch first.
Then trust no one.
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probably vote: chairs
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Probably get some lunch first.
Then trust no one.
You mean get some lynch first!
Vote: jon117killer
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No lynch before lunch. You go to bed after lynching.
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Hey everyone!
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Hi everyone! Hey, what does it mean if my PM has green letters?
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That Sudgy likes green, maybe?
Arch, are you mafia?
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Yeah, you caught me. I am.
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Yeah, you caught me. I am.
vote: Archetype.
Could the rest of you go ahead and just claim now too? That would be great.
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Yeah, you caught me. I am.
And who is your partner?
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Yeah, you caught me. I am.
And who is your partner?
You are, TA!
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Yeah, you caught me. I am.
vote: Archetype.
Could the rest of you go ahead and just claim now too? That would be great.
Sadly, this is how things go down when playing mafia on f.ds.
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Yeah, you caught me. I am.
vote: Archetype.
Could the rest of you go ahead and just claim now too? That would be great.
Sadly, this is how things go down when playing mafia on f.ds.
If only.
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Are we meant to be voting for people already or are all of these jokes? Just in case I am meant to use my democracy before this cruddy Internet lets me back on...
vote: cuttlebone cos my stomach doesn't want any lunch right now
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Are we meant to be voting for people already or are all of these jokes? Just in case I am meant to use my democracy before this cruddy Internet lets me back on...
vote: cuttlebone cos my stomach doesn't want any lunch right now
Typically (well, at least typically on this forum), games will start with a mix of theory discussion (which some people find scummy/useless) and RVS or "random vote stage" (which other people find useless). In both cases, the goal is to start building interactions with other players, ultimately leading to reactions and allowing you to effectively scumhunt. Without the non-verbal cues that live Mafia provides, day 1 can start fairly slowly without some sort of igniting factor; both of these combine to serve as typically-sufficient fuel for casebuilding.
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I have just reread the setup, and something was unclear to me:
If the mafia kills AND roleblocks the bulletproof townie, will the kill be successful?
(this is extremely unlikely to happen, but I'd rather have as much information as possible)
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I have just reread the setup, and something was unclear to me:
If the mafia kills AND roleblocks the bulletproof townie, will the kill be successful?
(this is extremely unlikely to happen, but I'd rather have as much information as possible)
Bulletproof is not an active ability, and does not get roleblocked. Thus, the BP townie will lose his bulletproof.
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Vote Count 1.1
chairs (1): Gveoniz
jon117killer (1): faust
Archetype (1): chairs
Cuttlebone (1): Jdaki
Not Voting (5): jon117killer, Cuttlebone, BoxOfDOG, Twistedarcher, Archetype
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 1 ends September 3rd, 12:00 PM.
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Out of the new guys, who's played mafia before? Online or in real person?
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I have never played Mafia before, but I read some games in f.ds.
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Nope never, though have played The Resistance (both iterations) a couple times irl, which seems vaguely similar but not quite the same.
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I have played before, but never online.
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Unfortunately, not a lot to say on the setup -- it seems pretty straightforward. To our PRs, obviously you want to stay hidden as well as possible, and to not give yourself away unless you are sure you've caught scum, or if you're about to be lynch.
Vote - Faust because why not!
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vote: faust for being a newbie that's played Mafia IRL. 8)
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Vote: Chairs for picking on us newbies who've played Mafia IRL before.
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I'm trying to figure out if Arch's "yes, I am mafia, you caught me!" reply is more likely to come from a town or mafia member. I'm leaning town, but I'm unsure. Anyone have any thoughts?
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Vote: john117killer because, I mean, killing is in his name!
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Vote: Chairs for picking on us newbies who've played Mafia IRL before.
OMGUS FOS: Cuttlebone for voting for me as I am clearly Town!
(Just kidding).
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I have played Mafia in real life a lot.
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vote: chairs.
C'mon, scum, I dare you to lynch me.
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Why on earth are you self-voting??
I would vote you, but that would put you at L-1, which I think is pretty early for that. But you have definitely moved to the top of my scum list for the self-vote.
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Why on earth are you self-voting??
I would vote you, but that would put you at L-1, which I think is pretty early for that. But you have definitely moved to the top of my scum list for the self-vote.
I've been reading over some games ashersky played, is why. But I guess it is kind of poor sportsmanship to try to emulate the meta of someone whose town incarnation is so vehemently anti-town, even if it does make me giggle (on reread, when I'm not in a game where he's doing it).
unvote
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But you didn't have a purpose for self-voting, other than it's what someone did before? Was it a joke, or an attempt to make you look townier, or what?
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But you didn't have a purpose for self-voting, other than it's what someone did before? Was it a joke, or an attempt to make you look townier, or what?
Intended to be an in-joke for the vets.
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What is a clear majority wrt the voting? Do we mean greater than 50% of all players or just more votes than any one else? Sorry for probably a stupid question.
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What is a clear majority wrt the voting? Do we mean greater than 50% of all players or just more votes than any one else? Sorry for probably a stupid question.
Typically 50%+1 is a majority.
So at 13, you need 7 to lynch, at 7 you need 4, at 12 you still need 7, etc.
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But you didn't have a purpose for self-voting, other than it's what someone did before? Was it a joke, or an attempt to make you look townier, or what?
Intended to be an in-joke for the vets.
I don't get it.
Let's start off with a basic question: Do people here prefer to be Town or Mafia?
For me, Town. I'm an absolutely terrible liar and get really frantic until pressure. When I'm Town, I can focus on who's being straight up with me and who's a big fat liar. I also get much calmer if I'm about to be lynched since I know I'm just another Townie (unless I'm a PR, then I freak out).
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I definitely prefer Town, myself - I just end up always playing scummy when I'm Mafia.
Regarding the self-voting... I was referencing this (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=8409.msg268410#msg268410) recent occurrence.
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Unfortunately, not a lot to say on the setup -- it seems pretty straightforward. To our PRs, obviously you want to stay hidden as well as possible, and to not give yourself away unless you are sure you've caught scum, or if you're about to be lynch.
Vote - Faust because why not!
I really disagree with this post. And I don't mean the vote on me (of course I also disagree with that), but the fact that there's "not a lot to say on the setup".
Certainly for most of our PRs, claiming would be a bad move. Yet I don't think that is true for all of them. I think it might be a good idea if the bulletproof townie (BT) claims. Unlike all other PRs, they don't need to fear to be night killed, and the claim would basically give us an IC and information on which roles actually are in this game. Also, it would really suck if we lynched a BT. But if there is one around - don't claim just yet. I'd like to know how the more experienced players here view this plan.
That said - Twistedarcher's behaviour till now seems rather suspicious to me. Reasons are these:
- he didn't point out what I just said, just saying the PRs should remain hidden. I think an experienced player would have at least considered it. So maybe he did and just decided a BT claim would be bad for his team.
- he voted for me. This argument may look like OMGUS, but consider this: my first real action here was asking a question about BT and roleblocking. It's really likely for this question to come from the BT. And a BT is the one player mafia wants to gets lynched the most - because they can't just night kill them.
So I'm going to make my first non-RVS vote.
Vote: Twistedarcher
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I agree that having a Bulletproof townie, if he exists, claim isn't the worst thing, but I still think it's bad. Not because it outs the bulletproof townie, but because scum learn the exact setup. They know whether or not they have a roleblocker, so if the bulletproof townie exists, they will know if there's a town jailkeeper or a town tracker in the game. This makes it much, much easier for the first townie to claim that role.
If we don't claim any PRs, it makes it much more likely that the first PR comes from town. Scum won't know which power to fakeclaim -- they have a bit of information on what's in the game based on whether or not there's a roleblocker, but they're still unsure on what's in the game.
Imagine if there is a roleblocker. Scum know that there's either a Cop/Doctor, or a Jailkeeper/Bulletproof townie. But they have no idea which combination to make. If we are about to lynch a scum, they have a 50% chance of making a fake claim which two townies will know is instantly wrong.
If they know that there's a bulletproof townie, though, they're able to instantly claim Tracker or Jailkeeper, knowing that the role absolutely exists in the game, and town is in the much tougher position of having to pick the correct claimant.
Outing the BP townie isn't bad for the BP townie -- but it's bad for the other PR, since scum will know exactly what it is.
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first townie to claim that role = first scum to claim that role
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Oh, by the way, in case this isn't clear already: If you know that there is no bulletproof townie in this setup, do NOT say so. It will expose you as PR.
And, to answer Archetype's question: I guess I slightly prefer being mafia to being town. It's just so much fun to have more information than the others and figure out a way to use this to your advantage. Still, I'd probably prefer a town PR to being mafia.
@Twistedarcher: I certainly agree that the mafia gets a small advantage from this, but the town's advantage (having an IC from day 1) is better than that IMO. I mean, if scum fakeclaims a role that two of us know can't be in the game (and that has a fairly small chance of happening anyway), for us to figure that out would mean that both our PRs have two (indirectly) claim. I'm not even sure we'd want to do that in this situation.
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I also voted you pretty randomly, but I didn't really give you any town cred for asking the question about a BP townie. I thought it made you less likely to be that role, actually (not that you couldn't be another PR!), if it even exists.
Having an IC is nice, but I don't know if the upside is bigger than the downside to a claim. It may actually be better to push off the claim until D2 -- that way, he's very likely going to be around at the end of the game. What do you think about that? Scum would be more likely to counterclaim D2 than D1, though.
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Unvote btw
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Unvote
Being a complete newbie, can anyone state the benefit for having an IC?
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An IC is an Innocent child, which is both a power role and a term. It means a player that is 100% town.
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I said benefits of having an Innocent child, instead of its definition.
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Well, the obvious thing is we are less likely to mislynch, as we already know that the IC is town. And we have a player around whom we can trust.
It's also a benefit for our PRs - they can search for a good target more efficiently. In this particular setup, assuming we have a bulletproof townie, we have either a Tracker or a Jailkeeper. The Tracker wants to target scum, which is easier when they know who isn't. The Jailkeeper could choose to target the IC to save them once their Bulletproof-ness is gone.
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I also voted you pretty randomly, but I didn't really give you any town cred for asking the question about a BP townie. I thought it made you less likely to be that role, actually (not that you couldn't be another PR!), if it even exists.
Having an IC is nice, but I don't know if the upside is bigger than the downside to a claim. It may actually be better to push off the claim until D2 -- that way, he's very likely going to be around at the end of the game. What do you think about that? Scum would be more likely to counterclaim D2 than D1, though.
I think claiming should be D1 or not at all. Pushing the claim to D2 gives the mafia one night to coordinate themselves, and I'd rather hit them unprepared. And I mean, with a D1 claim it's definitely possible that the BP townie is dead by D3, but this means the mafia only gets one kill in two nights, and they can't kill our other PR until D3 (lynching aside), so I don't think the mafia would really want to go for the kill.
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Ok, even with the "commonly used abbreviations" open in the neighbouring tab, I'm struggling with some of these acronyms. It has IC as inexperience challenged which doesn't sound the same as innocent child. I've just about deduced d1 as day 1. Is the game only a certain of days long? Or just keep going until all the mafia are dead?
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Each game day consists of 12 real-time days. We have to choose a target to lynch before then.
There will probably be anywhere from 2-4 game days in this game. The game ends after we lynch all the mafia, or there are as many mafia as town members (or nothing can prevent that from happening). So yeah, we keep going until all the mafia are dead, or until we've killed enough townies.
IC in this context means Innocent Child, not Inexperience challenged. It would be someone who everyone agrees is town.
If the bulletproof townie (if they exist) claims now, they would become an IC, unless a mafia counterclaimed. However, it would be silly for a mafia to counterclaim, as they'd be lynched within the next two days, which isn't very good for them. So, if a bulletproof townie claims, we would have an IC, with the benefit that they are unable to be killed in one night.
The downside to the claim is that it tells mafia the complete setup.
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Thanks, that clears things up quite a bit. Guess there's a fair bit of "I am Spartacus" stuff going on!
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Looks like we have quite the confusion!
Well. I may be relatively new to these here forums, and because of that, I didn't actually know IC meant Innocent Child. (I've always been around places where it means In Character)
In any case, thanks for that.
Furthermore, both me and sudgy will be gone again for five days on a canoe trip.
Before that.. I currently have no suspicions. Regardless of what everyone else thinks, I'm voting for a no-lynch.
Vote: No-lynch.
If it stands to be that I can't do that, then in my own defense, this is done all the time in real life mafia ;-;
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Before that.. I currently have no suspicions. Regardless of what everyone else thinks, I'm voting for a no-lynch.
Vote: No-lynch.
If it stands to be that I can't do that, then in my own defense, this is done all the time in real life mafia ;-;
I think you can do that, but would that be a good idea?
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Wrong formatting in previous post, correcting now.
Before that.. I currently have no suspicions. Regardless of what everyone else thinks, I'm voting for a no-lynch.
Vote: No-lynch.
If it stands to be that I can't do that, then in my own defense, this is done all the time in real life mafia ;-;
I think you can do that, but would that be a good idea?
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Wrong formatting in previous post, correcting now.
Before that.. I currently have no suspicions. Regardless of what everyone else thinks, I'm voting for a no-lynch.
Vote: No-lynch.
If it stands to be that I can't do that, then in my own defense, this is done all the time in real life mafia ;-;
I think you can do that, but would that be a good idea?
Yes.
In most games, at the very beginning there is the Random Voting stage.. It's not very productive, and suspicions are practically always off by a large portion.
If you do a no-lynch, then either they shoot the Bulletproof Townie, and no one dies, or someone does die.. Then the actual game starts.
No-lynch gets the game more rolling than anything else.
It basically says "This is going no where. Lets force the next day to begin."
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Well the problem with no lynch is, how will we be any better off tomorrow? We'll be in the same position, except probably with one more town member dead, and still no clue who the mafia are.
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Well the problem with no lynch is, how will we be any better off tomorrow? We'll be in the same position, except probably with one more town member dead, and still no clue who the mafia are.
That's your own opinion, but it's never ended up like that for me.
We'll have to see how people vote on it.
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Well the problem with no lynch is, how will we be any better off tomorrow? We'll be in the same position, except probably with one more town member dead, and still no clue who the mafia are.
That's your own opinion, but it's never ended up like that for me.
We'll have to see how people vote on it.
How would we gain anymore information, though?
Say we all vote to no-lynch now, and then I'm the night kill tonight. Tomorrow, you all wake up, with 8 players instead of 9. How are you any closer to finding scum?
I just don't think there's any benefit, and it gives us one less chance to kill scum.
We need a lynch day 1. Even if we lynch town (which we probably will), we can analyze the wagons and see where the votes fall, and then we have more to go off of in D2.
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Well the problem with no lynch is, how will we be any better off tomorrow? We'll be in the same position, except probably with one more town member dead, and still no clue who the mafia are.
That's your own opinion, but it's never ended up like that for me.
We'll have to see how people vote on it.
How would we gain anymore information, though?
Say we all vote to no-lynch now, and then I'm the night kill tonight. Tomorrow, you all wake up, with 8 players instead of 9. How are you any closer to finding scum?
I just don't think there's any benefit, and it gives us one less chance to kill scum.
We need a lynch day 1. Even if we lynch town (which we probably will), we can analyze the wagons and see where the votes fall, and then we have more to go off of in D2.
I agree with this, at the very least we should not all go no lynch now.
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Vote: Cuttlebone for not saying anything meaningful yet
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IRL mafia, you have a lot more information to work off of (non-verbal cues). Here, you have to work strictly off of what people have typed.
I similarly believed that a D1 no-lynch was not a bad idea in my first game, but I've come around to the concept that lynching people, even if mislynching at first, is better than not getting a lynch (except in certain circumstances, usually an even number of people left alive).
I think I agree with TA here, let's vote: cuttlebone.
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Well, lets think about this..
If we were to no lynch, we would lose one person, or no people if they shot the bulletproof.
If we do lynch, then we will very likely kill off a townie, and in the end we'll be losing two people.
No Lynch:
Possible bulletproof mistake
Only losing 1 if someone is shot
You get just as much information as you do when there IS a lynch.
Lynch:
You lose two people no matter what you do
You practically get even less information
One of the ONLY benefits being people's reaction to being voted on
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D don't forget that lynching narrows possible scum and is a town directed kill
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Why are we assuming we have a bulletproof?
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Well, lets think about this..
If we were to no lynch, we would lose one person, or no people if they shot the bulletproof.
If we do lynch, then we will very likely kill off a townie, and in the end we'll be losing two people.
No Lynch:
Possible bulletproof mistake
Only losing 1 if someone is shot
You get just as much information as you do when there IS a lynch.
Lynch:
You lose two people no matter what you do
You practically get even less information
One of the ONLY benefits being people's reaction to being voted on
Well, the problem is this: suppose, for simplicity, that one townie is killed each night.
Scenario where we mislynch D1:
By the start of the next day, 5 townies and 2 scum are left. If we mislynch again, we have 3 townies/2 mafia D3, and another mislynch loses the game.
Scenario where we no-lynch D1:
By the start of the next day, 6 townie and 2 scum are left. If we mislynch here, we have 4 townies/2 mafia D3 - again, another mislynch loses the game. So we are in no better position at all.
The benefit from lynching is that we have some interactions, accusations etc. - people's reactions to the game. You act as though these were not important, but for most of us - all those who don't have PRs - they're the only thing there is to decide whether or not a player is mafia.
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Vote:BoxOfDog
I don't think no lynch is a good idea.
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Of course, the benefit of lynching is also that might hit mafia - even if we assume it's completely random, there's a 2/9 chance that we do. And given that the outcome of no-lynch is pretty much the same as the outcome of a mislynch, we should totally try to hit mafia.
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Vote Count 1.2
chairs (1): Cuttlebone,
Twistedarcher (1): faust
Cuttlebone (3): Jdaki, Twistedarcher, chairs
BoxOfDOG (1): Archetype
No Lynch (1): BoxOfDOG
Not Voting (2): jon117killer, Gveoniz
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 1 ends September 3rd, 12:00 PM.
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Vote:BoxOfDog
I don't think no lynch is a good idea.
Lez' be honest.. There's no point in voting for me.
I feel like we can all easily claim with confidence I'm not scum :I
My actions have been far too passive, and that's just random voting.. I know you're supposed to find some value/reaction or something out of it.. But I don't really like the random voting stage, it makes me uneasy no matter what position in the game I have is.
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Vote: BoxofDog
I'm not buying the "I'm obviously not scum" bit..
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Vote:BoxOfDog
I don't think no lynch is a good idea.
Lez' be honest.. There's no point in voting for me.
I feel like we can all easily claim with confidence I'm not scum :I
My actions have been far too passive, and that's just random voting.. I know you're supposed to find some value/reaction or something out of it.. But I don't really like the random voting stage, it makes me uneasy no matter what position in the game I have is.
Furthermore, it's not like you have any legitimate grounds towards it.
..
With that, I see that my vote is goin' into no-where land.
Vote: Cuttlebone
Lurking..?
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Vote: BoxofDog
I'm not buying the "I'm obviously not scum" bit..
...
*walks away slowly*
*facepalm*
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Vote: BoxofDog
I'm not buying the "I'm obviously not scum" bit..
...
*walks away slowly*
*facepalm*
Why do you think you should be obviously town? I have as much reason to suspect you as I do anyone else. I feel your pre-emptive defense of why you aren't scummy is more likely to come from a mafia player than a town player.
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Vote: BoxofDog
I'm not buying the "I'm obviously not scum" bit..
...
*walks away slowly*
*facepalm*
Why do you think you should be obviously town? I have as much reason to suspect you as I do anyone else. I feel your pre-emptive defense of why you aren't scummy is more likely to come from a mafia player than a town player.
"Pre-emptive defense"
That's more of a personality thing than a Mafia thing..
I take unwarranted, and untrue accusations as more of an insult than anything else..
I think I should be obviously town because of a few reasons..
- There is an incredibly high chance I am not scum
- I've been quite active in my posts, not afraid to post whatever
- There are two lurkers, and I'm not one of them
- All of the accusations against me are kind of.. Lame.. ._.
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Vote: BoxofDog
I'm not buying the "I'm obviously not scum" bit..
...
*walks away slowly*
*facepalm*
Why do you think you should be obviously town? I have as much reason to suspect you as I do anyone else. I feel your pre-emptive defense of why you aren't scummy is more likely to come from a mafia player than a town player.
"Pre-emptive defense"
That's more of a personality thing than a Mafia thing..
I take unwarranted, and untrue accusations as more of an insult than anything else..
I think I should be obviously town because of a few reasons..
- There is an incredibly high chance I am not scum
- I've been quite active in my posts, not afraid to post whatever
- There are two lurkers, and I'm not one of them
- All of the accusations against me are kind of.. Lame.. ._.
But if ya' wanna lose another townie in the game against the scum.. *flail* whatever.
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Vote: BoxofDog
I'm not buying the "I'm obviously not scum" bit..
...
*walks away slowly*
*facepalm*
Why do you think you should be obviously town? I have as much reason to suspect you as I do anyone else. I feel your pre-emptive defense of why you aren't scummy is more likely to come from a mafia player than a town player.
"Pre-emptive defense"
That's more of a personality thing than a Mafia thing..
I take unwarranted, and untrue accusations as more of an insult than anything else..
I think I should be obviously town because of a few reasons..
- There is an incredibly high chance I am not scum
- I've been quite active in my posts, not afraid to post whatever
- There are two lurkers, and I'm not one of them
- All of the accusations against me are kind of.. Lame.. ._.
1) You realize this is true for everyone, right? That's absolutely not a defense against being scum. Everyone has a 2/9 chance of being scum.
2) If you thought this was a town trait, wouldn't you try to impersonate that trait as scum? So either way, you'd be "quite active" in your posts. There are plenty of scum players who have been active.
3) This doesn't speak to your likelihood of being scum at all.
4) It's D1, and it's early D1. There are no slam-dunk cases. I saw you do the most scummy thing I've seen today, and I voted you for it.
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Vote: BoxofDog
I'm not buying the "I'm obviously not scum" bit..
...
*walks away slowly*
*facepalm*
Why do you think you should be obviously town? I have as much reason to suspect you as I do anyone else. I feel your pre-emptive defense of why you aren't scummy is more likely to come from a mafia player than a town player.
"Pre-emptive defense"
That's more of a personality thing than a Mafia thing..
I take unwarranted, and untrue accusations as more of an insult than anything else..
I think I should be obviously town because of a few reasons..
- There is an incredibly high chance I am not scum
- I've been quite active in my posts, not afraid to post whatever
- There are two lurkers, and I'm not one of them
- All of the accusations against me are kind of.. Lame.. ._.
1) You realize this is true for everyone, right? That's absolutely not a defense against being scum. Everyone has a 2/9 chance of being scum.
2) If you thought this was a town trait, wouldn't you try to impersonate that trait as scum? So either way, you'd be "quite active" in your posts. There are plenty of scum players who have been active.
3) This doesn't speak to your likelihood of being scum at all.
4) It's D1, and it's early D1. There are no slam-dunk cases. I saw you do the most scummy thing I've seen today, and I voted you for it.
If you think the way I act in every mafia game is scummy..
That's cool tooooo...
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Box pulling the classic "I'm not scum" defense
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I'm comfortable with my vote being where it is.
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Hi all,
Sorry for the inactivity, will try not to let it happen again. Seems that it only leads to an unproductive lynching, as we don't get as much information from it.
So, I didn't realize that not lynching someone on the first day was an option. On one hand, doing so would save a townie (most likely), but would forsake the chance to kill a mafia by slim chance. If we do choose to do a no lynch, I think that we should definitely keep track of where people's votes fell in terms of suspicion, as the first wave of really useful information comes from the first night killing, and from that we can make more informed conclusions.
Actually lynching someone is of course, the simpler way to do this.
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Well, BoxOfDOG, I don't really think you're scum. All this unhelpful and rude behaviour here makes me want to vote for you anyway.
For now my vote stays where it is, but man, you're not making this easy for me.
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Partial quote to not to fill up the entire screen with quotes. I was trying to reply to this:
I take unwarranted, and untrue accusations as more of an insult than anything else..
This is just a game, those accusations, if really untrue, would just be mistaken townies or mafia's trick instead of personal insult.
I don't think you must be scum, some behavior made you slightly suspicious though.
All of the accusations against me are kind of.. Lame.. ._.
The accusations as I understand is "bad advice of no lynching".
While your experience show that it is a good idea, my brief experience reading some of the game here shows that it is generally better to do something.
Spreading bad advice is not good for town. Of course, it could be that you are just misled.
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I quite liked the logic behind the No-Lynch, but I do not like the logic behind the "obviously not scum", comes across to me as if you're saying, well if you think I'm scum then you must be illogical/silly/stupid. I mean we can all say those things.
Vote: BoxofDOG
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Well, BoxOfDOG, I don't really think you're scum. All this unhelpful and rude behaviour here makes me want to vote for you anyway.
For now my vote stays where it is, but man, you're not making this easy for me.
Don't vote for him if you don't think he's scum!
But why don't you think he is scum?
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All of the accusations against me are kind of.. Lame.. ._.
The accusations as I understand is "bad advice of no lynching".
While your experience show that it is a good idea, my brief experience reading some of the game here shows that it is generally better to do something.
Spreading bad advice is not good for town. Of course, it could be that you are just misled.
My vote has less to do with the advice of no lynching, and more to do with the pre-emptive "I'm obviously not scum, voting for me would be silly". While I strongly disagree with the no-lynch advice (and Gveoniz is correct that there are numerous games where we've been over this same issue and the consensus is always that no-lynch is bad when starting with an odd amount of players), I found the advice scummy.
Something that's made me even more suspicious that occurred after my vote is his vote on Cuttlebone. Had I not unvoted in the previous post, it would have been Cuttlebone's 4th vote, only putting him 1 vote from a lynch. The reason for the vote was that Cuttlebone was lurking. BoxofDog chose to vote Cuttlebone, and not the second person he was accusing of lurking (Jdaki possibly? not sure who he was referring to). The fact that his vote was on the lurker who already had a wagon going, rather than the lurker with no/few votes, makes me more suspicious of BoxofDog, and less suspicious of Cuttlebone.
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I'm comfortable with my vote being where it is.
Is it because of the no-lynch idea, or because of something else?
No-lynch is an idea that most of us had when we started -- it does make sense initially, even if it turns out to be suboptimal. I don't find BoxofDog scummy for the no-lynch idea, but for other stuff.
Why do you find BoxofDog scummy?
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Well, BoxOfDOG, I don't really think you're scum. All this unhelpful and rude behaviour here makes me want to vote for you anyway.
For now my vote stays where it is, but man, you're not making this easy for me.
Don't vote for him if you don't think he's scum!
But why don't you think he is scum?
Well, I agree with you that the no-lynch idea isn't necessarily scummy. And what's happened since then - the "I'm not scum" defense, putting Cuttlebone at L-1 - I just think a scum player would be more careful here. What he's doing puts all the attention on him, and while that's probably not good play for a townie, it's even worse play for a scum player.
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Also, when he argued for no-lynch earlier, he seemed to always take it for granted that there's a bulletproof townie, and I believe it's possible that this is his role. If so, it would probably be a good idea to claim that (well, I still think it would have been a good idea to claim right from the start, but now with this wagon on him it definitely is).
So BoxOfDOG, are you bulletproof?
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I'm comfortable with my vote being where it is.
Is it because of the no-lynch idea, or because of something else?
No-lynch is an idea that most of us had when we started -- it does make sense initially, even if it turns out to be suboptimal. I don't find BoxofDog scummy for the no-lynch idea, but for other stuff.
Why do you find BoxofDog scummy?
His no lynch idea was bad enough to warrant one of those awkward in-between RVS and real votes, but his reaction to people voting him and saying "I'm NOT SCUM!" seems like Mafia ultra panicking. I could easily be persuaded to move it, but I'm fine with it there for now.
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Could someone explain to me the reasoning behind a PR (bulletproof in this case, I suppose) in the first round? I'd thought that it was a bad move for PR townie's to show their hand too early. Then again there are PR's in this game that I'd never seen in RL games.
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Could someone explain to me the reasoning behind a PR (bulletproof in this case, I suppose) in the first round? I'd thought that it was a bad move for PR townie's to show their hand too early. Then again there are PR's in this game that I'd never seen in RL games.
Faust's posts do a good job explaining the benefits to the bulletproof townie (and only the bulletproof townie, not anyone else claim). I think the costs outweigh the benefits personally, but only the bulletproof townie, if he exists, should consider claiming -- no other PR should claim, unless they have caught scum in some way.
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Also, when he argued for no-lynch earlier, he seemed to always take it for granted that there's a bulletproof townie, and I believe it's possible that this is his role. If so, it would probably be a good idea to claim that (well, I still think it would have been a good idea to claim right from the start, but now with this wagon on him it definitely is).
So BoxOfDOG, are you bulletproof?
My mood has increased considerably, especially after watching an entire season of a show.. Thus wasting the day, but whatever.
Anyway!
Nah, I'm not Bulletproof. Unfortunately, I'm the only Vanilla Townie -_- Which is the only one that doesn't have a special benefit to it.
Which is boring.
And to address Archetype, I'm not panicking as a Mafia.. When I play as a Mafia, both on the forums and in real life, I am much more composed.. Since that's exactly as you're supposed to be.
Though my behavior doesn't exactly benefit the game, I do know what I am doing.
With that, I would like to ask of everyone, for what specific reason to you think I'm scummy? Then I can give an answer to that.
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Nah, I'm not Bulletproof. Unfortunately, I'm the only Vanilla Townie -_- Which is the only one that doesn't have a special benefit to it.
Which is boring.
This is not why you were scummy, but I think claiming VT is anti-town? I read about it some place else. It increase the chance of scum Killing PR.
It DO NOT means that you are Mafia since it is not a good move either for scums.
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Also, when he argued for no-lynch earlier, he seemed to always take it for granted that there's a bulletproof townie, and I believe it's possible that this is his role. If so, it would probably be a good idea to claim that (well, I still think it would have been a good idea to claim right from the start, but now with this wagon on him it definitely is).
So BoxOfDOG, are you bulletproof?
I personally feel that faust's question is not that good when we don't all agree that claiming bulletproof is good.
I don't think forcing a claim before dire emergency(when it is really necessary) is good either.
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Box, in the first day, the first lynching is generally not for a specific, concrete reason. Many times it's based on vague suspicion, because that's all the town has in the first round. There is so little information to go on, unless the party in question made a serious blunder (which does happen), the votes go to him/her because of suspicious behavior. The specific reason you are under suspicion is because your comments seem to have a vague edge to them. That's not a good reason, but it's all the town's got in the beginning 1st round.
Additionally, we can only take your word that you always play cool-and-collected as mafia. I don't think that's a good defense. I'm not sure what you could say/do to relieve suspicion, but it's going to have to be better than your word. Lying is kind of the point.
Am I correct in my understanding?
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All this talk about whether or not BoxOfDOG is mafia or not is leading us nowhere. He might be, but if so, I highly doubt that we'll get any evidence on that. It's pretty likely however that he is town. If so, we spend an awful lot of time focusing on a single town member. This is exactly the kind of thing the mafia likes to see: We discuss about BoxOfDOG the whole time, then eventually lynch him, he flips town, and at D2, there's not much to analyze - we didn't get any closer to finding the real scum.
I still like my vote on Twistedarcher. He was the main force pushing this whole BoxOfDOG thing. That, together with his early-game behaviour, says scum for me.
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All this talk about whether or not BoxOfDOG is mafia or not is leading us nowhere. He might be, but if so, I highly doubt that we'll get any evidence on that. It's pretty likely however that he is town. If so, we spend an awful lot of time focusing on a single town member. This is exactly the kind of thing the mafia likes to see: We discuss about BoxOfDOG the whole time, then eventually lynch him, he flips town, and at D2, there's not much to analyze - we didn't get any closer to finding the real scum.
I still like my vote on Twistedarcher. He was the main force pushing this whole BoxOfDOG thing. That, together with his early-game behaviour, says scum for me.
I think you're likely the most collected out of everyone here- Which is respectable.
On that subject, I don't think anyone likes to be focused on excessively, regardless of their position in the game.
Even this early on, it is really suspicious that Twisted would be pushing something so heavily, though Archetype still has his vote on me, it's simple vague suspicion rather than an unrelenting push.
Additionally, we can only take your word that you always play cool-and-collected as mafia. I don't think that's a good defense. I'm not sure what you could say/do to relieve suspicion, but it's going to have to be better than your word. Lying is kind of the point.
Am I correct in my understanding?
Yes, you're correct!
It may not be a good defense, but whenever has the truth been taken as a good defense..?
I've been in numerous Mafia games where I give a weak defense, but 100% was the truth, and there was no lying involved.. People didn't believe me regardless.
There isn't much I could say or do, but seeing as my lurking suspicion against you is settled at this point, and you're rather harmless on terms of suspicion..
/Vote: Twistedarcher
I would like to spread out the conversation quite a lot, so here's my suspicion list, most to least xD
Twistedarcher
Jdaki
jon117killer
chairs
Archetype
Gveoniz
Cuttlebone
faust
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Just an inquiry:
It's pretty likely however that he is town.
Some of his behavior and reaction that is found "scummy" might be mistakes, but I don't find he any townier than one normal would. I am probably missing something, can you point that out?
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Just an inquiry:
It's pretty likely however that he is town.
Some of his behavior and reaction that is found "scummy" might be mistakes, but I don't find he any townier than one normal would. I am probably missing something, can you point that out?
He's simply talking about the chances of it being that I'm a townie.
There is a 2/9 chance of me being a Mafia, so that is incredibly low.
Now, I can say for myself, being myself, and knowing what I have said in the past, they are mistakes. But for whatever reason, you're going to take someone else's word over mine, when I'm the real BoxOfDOG expert :I
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Yeah, I didn't mean that Box is any likelier to be town than the rest of us. But it's still only a 2/9 chance.
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Vote Count 1.3
chairs (1): Cuttlebone,
Twistedarcher (2): faust, BoxOfDOG
Cuttlebone (1): chairs
BoxOfDOG (3): Archetype, Twistedarcher, Jdaki
Not Voting (2): jon117killer, Gveoniz
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 1 ends September 3rd, 12:00 PM.
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Also:
I believe Jdaki and Twistedarcher to be Mafia partners. Something to take into account.
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Part of me wants to lynch the vets first on account of longer playtime for you new folks'd be mighty nice.
The bigger part wants to see what we can do about making town win.
vote: faust.
Faust, you've been quick to come to Box's rescue, even if only via "hey it's statistics man." Maybe you're feeling guilty because you know he's town, or maybe you just want the towncred for being right on a mislynch. Either way, sniff test says: scummy.
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Part of me wants to lynch the vets first on account of longer playtime for you new folks'd be mighty nice.
The bigger part wants to see what we can do about making town win.
vote: faust.
Faust, you've been quick to come to Box's rescue, even if only via "hey it's statistics man." Maybe you're feeling guilty because you know he's town, or maybe you just want the towncred for being right on a mislynch. Either way, sniff test says: scummy.
There are sometimes points where someone will say something against another person that you support.. But often that'll bring down your suspicions even further.
Particularly because you seem cautious.
Meaaaning,
Twistedarcher
Jdaki
Archetype
Gveoniz
chairs
jon117killer
Cuttlebone
faust
I moved Jon down as well, because chances are, he's a townie. It's also that I know Jon in real life, and he has an unusual amount of things he has to do around the house.. For whatever reason. Because of that, I'll pin him as IC.
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Although on reading all the posts, my first thoughts were "why is faust defending BoxofDOG? Isn't that suspicious?" I then realise that if I say that, it seems like I'm defending TA, though I do feel like I should as I can't see that he was "pushing" anything against Box- if anything it was Archetype (and me) that found fault in his posts. But now it really seems like I'm in cahoots with TA by saying faust might be in league with Box and man this game is giving me a headache!
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Playing Dominion is easier than this!
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Although on reading all the posts, my first thoughts were "why is faust defending BoxofDOG? Isn't that suspicious?" I then realise that if I say that, it seems like I'm defending TA, though I do feel like I should as I can't see that he was "pushing" anything against Box- if anything it was Archetype (and me) that found fault in his posts. But now it really seems like I'm in cahoots with TA by saying faust might be in league with Box and man this game is giving me a headache!
Well then, Jdaki.. Explain to me why you deserve that third position?
Just kidding.
But I felt like Twisted was being rather insistent, and am fully confident he is one of the Mafia.
From what I REMEMBER, I'd have to go back and read, Archetype simply voted for me for a vague reason, and left it at that.
I knew at some point a faust + me combo discussion would come up soon.. It might be unavoidable, but I feeeel like we've established me as a Townie.. If so, that'd make it a bit impossible for faust to be my partner..
Gah. Just giving myself a headache now.
-
I will save you Joe
Vote: Twistedarcher
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Part of me wants to lynch the vets first on account of longer playtime for you new folks'd be mighty nice.
The bigger part wants to see what we can do about making town win.
vote: faust.
Faust, you've been quick to come to Box's rescue, even if only via "hey it's statistics man." Maybe you're feeling guilty because you know he's town, or maybe you just want the towncred for being right on a mislynch. Either way, sniff test says: scummy.
Oh, I didn't mean to come to anyone's rescue. Should we decide to lynch Box today, I'm fine with that. His posts definitely read scummier than most of the other's. I just want to talk a little about the other players.
-
Although on reading all the posts, my first thoughts were "why is faust defending BoxofDOG? Isn't that suspicious?" I then realise that if I say that, it seems like I'm defending TA, though I do feel like I should as I can't see that he was "pushing" anything against Box- if anything it was Archetype (and me) that found fault in his posts. But now it really seems like I'm in cahoots with TA by saying faust might be in league with Box and man this game is giving me a headache!
Why are you caring so much about what we could think of you? Someone might say that's a rather scummy trait...
(I hope I didn't cause your headache to grow stronger with this ;))
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I moved Jon down as well, because chances are, he's a townie. It's also that I know Jon in real life, and he has an unusual amount of things he has to do around the house.. For whatever reason. Because of that, I'll pin him as IC.
His real life events have no impact on his likelihood of being scum.
-
Part of me wants to lynch the vets first on account of longer playtime for you new folks'd be mighty nice.
The bigger part wants to see what we can do about making town win.
vote: faust.
Faust, you've been quick to come to Box's rescue, even if only via "hey it's statistics man." Maybe you're feeling guilty because you know he's town, or maybe you just want the towncred for being right on a mislynch. Either way, sniff test says: scummy.
Oh, I didn't mean to come to anyone's rescue. Should we decide to lynch Box today, I'm fine with that. His posts definitely read scummier than most of the other's. I just want to talk a little about the other players.
Being fine with lynching Box is a different viewpoint than what you had earlier, when you thought he was town.
-
Although on reading all the posts, my first thoughts were "why is faust defending BoxofDOG? Isn't that suspicious?" I then realise that if I say that, it seems like I'm defending TA, though I do feel like I should as I can't see that he was "pushing" anything against Box- if anything it was Archetype (and me) that found fault in his posts. But now it really seems like I'm in cahoots with TA by saying faust might be in league with Box and man this game is giving me a headache!
Well then, Jdaki.. Explain to me why you deserve that third position?
Just kidding.
But I felt like Twisted was being rather insistent, and am fully confident he is one of the Mafia.
From what I REMEMBER, I'd have to go back and read, Archetype simply voted for me for a vague reason, and left it at that.
I knew at some point a faust + me combo discussion would come up soon.. It might be unavoidable, but I feeeel like we've established me as a Townie.. If so, that'd make it a bit impossible for faust to be my partner..
Gah. Just giving myself a headache now.
You keep saying that you have established yourself as townie. No one is established as townie, especially if you really are a VT, as you say.
This is because if you were scum, you'd say you were town, too. Therefore, you saying that you're a town member doesn't speak anything, since it's something you would say as both town and scum.
Also, saying that a case is bad because the target only has a 2/9 chance of doesn't make sense. Every player has a 2/9 chance of being scum -- it's a null argument.
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I will save you Joe
Vote: Twistedarcher
Do you think that I'm mafia, or do you just not like the fact that I'm voting your friend?
The fact that he's your friend makes him no less likely to be mafia than anyone else.
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I don't really know how anyone can differentiate between Jonkiller, Cuttlebone, and Jdaki -- they've all been lurking, and I have them all in roughly the same group. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them is scum, but I don't have a way to pick out which one I think it is yet.
Gveoniz (I think that's how you spell it!) is making a lot of sense, and I've got a town read on him. Faust also seems levelheaded, although I don't like how he's gone from defending Box to being okay to lynching him.
Chairs seems like normal town Chairs so far, and I don't have much of a read on Archetype right now.
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I don't really know how anyone can differentiate between Jonkiller, Cuttlebone, and Jdaki -- they've all been lurking, and I have them all in roughly the same group. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them is scum, but I don't have a way to pick out which one I think it is yet.
Gveoniz (I think that's how you spell it!) is making a lot of sense, and I've got a town read on him. Faust also seems levelheaded, although I don't like how he's gone from defending Box to being okay to lynching him.
Chairs seems like normal town Chairs so far, and I don't have much of a read on Archetype right now.
I think you're pushing this a little harder than necessary?
Take a step back, and look at the bigger picture.. You're picking out these really mundane details. Rather than using the fact that everyone has a 2/9 chance to be scum as a defense for people, you're using it be offensive towards them in a feat to try to gain the power of the game.. To me, that reads scum.
I'm quite comfortable where my vote is.
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I don't really know how anyone can differentiate between Jonkiller, Cuttlebone, and Jdaki -- they've all been lurking, and I have them all in roughly the same group. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them is scum, but I don't have a way to pick out which one I think it is yet.
Gveoniz (I think that's how you spell it!) is making a lot of sense, and I've got a town read on him. Faust also seems levelheaded, although I don't like how he's gone from defending Box to being okay to lynching him.
Chairs seems like normal town Chairs so far, and I don't have much of a read on Archetype right now.
I think you're pushing this a little harder than necessary?
Take a step back, and look at the bigger picture.. You're picking out these really mundane details. Rather than using the fact that everyone has a 2/9 chance to be scum as a defense for people, you're using it be offensive towards them in a feat to try to gain the power of the game.. To me, that reads scum.
I'm quite comfortable where my vote is.
To clarify, I wasn't addressing your particular message that you quoted. That was merely to direct the post at you.
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OK I don't think voting for people because they voted against your r-l friend is cool.
But I suppose it isn't really an indicator of being mafia- any more than other apparently defensive votes...
Clearly two different people defending one person means they can't all be scum.
It was a reasonably quick turn-around by faust but without any experience of the game, my instinct isn't weighing that that highly. Box is still having a lot to say and is top of my list (:P) so I won't shift at this point in time.
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Part of me wants to lynch the vets first on account of longer playtime for you new folks'd be mighty nice.
The bigger part wants to see what we can do about making town win.
vote: faust.
Faust, you've been quick to come to Box's rescue, even if only via "hey it's statistics man." Maybe you're feeling guilty because you know he's town, or maybe you just want the towncred for being right on a mislynch. Either way, sniff test says: scummy.
Oh, I didn't mean to come to anyone's rescue. Should we decide to lynch Box today, I'm fine with that. His posts definitely read scummier than most of the other's. I just want to talk a little about the other players.
Being fine with lynching Box is a different viewpoint than what you had earlier, when you thought he was town.
There were a couple of Box posts between me saying he was townie and now. I didn't like the way he reacted to my defense at all - buddying up with me (in fact putting me as the most likely town player) and at the same time following my vote. It just seems like a thing mafia would do to gain my trust. Because of that, my read on him is scummier than before.
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The main reason that I'm not voting Box over Twistedarcher is that I'd prefer to lynch a vet today.
This is why: The mafia is more dangerous for us if there are experienced players in it. The worst-case scenario is two vets are scum (pretty unlikely). Having 1 vet and 1 newb is much likelier, and not much better for us; the vet can tell the newb how to act during the night, and it's almost as bad as having two mafia vets.
In both scenarios, taking out a vet could really help us. Should the mafia consist of two newbs, we can afford the mislynch.
In short, I'm suggesting some sort of Minimax strategy (see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimax))
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Many theories come to my mind my mind (some of them pretty ridiculous), I am trying to organize them and hopefully properly present what I think. It is still quite fractured and messy though. And I cut some quotation short so this post don't get too long.
I am not trying to analysis anyone as we are still quite early on, those are just my feelings.
BoxOfDOG : your behavior is quite strange that made me suspicious. Here is a few recent examples. Some of them may just be mistakes and inexperience (or my inexperience), but I still want to point those out.
"2/9 defense"
This always seems strange and weird to me, but I don't really know what to say about it.
Yes, your chance of being randomly selected as mafia is pretty low, but that does not sound like a defense to me. I don't know how to comprehend this apart from (no offence) useless bad move that makes others pick on you. (OR, actually clever trick that have other uses.)
[---suspicious list---]
I moved Jon down as well, because chances are, he's a townie. It's also that I know Jon in real life, and he has an unusual amount of things he has to do around the house.. For whatever reason. Because of that, I'll pin him as IC.
I don't know how do you know who he is in this game, especially when he didn't talk much in this game. (He chance of being town is 7/9 only actually) Being busy may explain why didn't he post much though.
(If you are scum though you can know for sure who he is. And this move may be:
trying to drag a town down along with you when you died / blind defense of your scum partner / get an ally in the game as one can see him trying to help you a few post downward)
I will save you Joe
Vote: Twistedarcher
(he didn't bold his vote here though, is it a mistake or some tricks?)
In addition, Innocent Child may not be the right word here, I think that means 100% totally confirmed townie (for everyone).
I knew at some point a faust + me combo discussion would come up soon.. It might be unavoidable, but I feeeel like we've established me as a Townie.. If so, that'd make it a bit impossible for faust to be my partner..
Gah. Just giving myself a headache now.
I don't feel that you have been established as a Townie, (first you still have 2/9 of chance being scum) no one have stated that you are clearly town, Apart from you claiming VT yourself, which do not prove anything.
Yet I don't think for sure you must be some one, maybe this is just all misunderstanding.
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(Faust was replying while I was typing this, so this part may be quite fractured and inaccurate)
And speaking of faust:
All this talk about whether or not BoxOfDOG is mafia or not is leading us nowhere. He might be, but if so, I highly doubt that we'll get any evidence on that. It's pretty likely however that he is town. If so, we spend an awful lot of time focusing on a single town member. This is exactly the kind of thing the mafia likes to see: We discuss about BoxOfDOG the whole time, then eventually lynch him, he flips town, and at D2, there's not much to analyze - we didn't get any closer to finding the real scum.
I still like my vote on Twistedarcher. He was the main force pushing this whole BoxOfDOG thing. That, together with his early-game behaviour, says scum for me.
The moment that you suddenly pop up and defend Box make you more scummy then you ever were before, “a faust + Box combo” was right in front of me there.
Oh, I didn't mean to come to anyone's rescue. Should we decide to lynch Box today, I'm fine with that. His posts definitely read scummier than most of the other's. I just want to talk a little about the other players.
Even when you change your mind, I feel that you just discover your mistake and try to fix that. (Of course I can't be sure, there are many combinations of what this really means that I don't want to explore here) And I don't mean we have found this scum pair, it is just the immediate feeling I get when I see your post.
Later reread also shows that you have been reasonable. Actually the more I read and think the more normal you become. I still don't fully understand your behavior up there. My guess is that you just don't want us to spend too much time on a single person.
When I was trying investigate the TA issue:
I still like my vote on Twistedarcher. He was the main force pushing this whole BoxOfDOG thing. That, together with his early-game behavior, says scum for me.
The pushing BoxOfDOG thing is reasonable as TA did contribute in it (not very heavily though). When I was investigating" his early-game behavior", TA become slightly more scummy than I originally thought. Maybe he is just a experienced good player so no matter whether he is a townie or scum he is convincing and seemingly innocent. But the more I think think, the more confused I am, I think I would stop here and don't try to do too much this early in the game.
To conclude I still don't have a clear stand right now. If I really were to choose one, I feel that a Box, faust or Twistedarcher lynch may be alright, but I am totally not sure.
-
Many theories come to my mind my mind (some of them pretty ridiculous), I am trying to organize them and hopefully properly present what I think. It is still quite fractured and messy though. And I cut some quotation short so this post don't get too long.
I am not trying to analysis anyone as we are still quite early on, those are just my feelings.
BoxOfDOG : your behavior is quite strange that made me suspicious. Here is a few recent examples. Some of them may just be mistakes and inexperience (or my inexperience), but I still want to point those out.
"2/9 defense"
This always seems strange and weird to me, but I don't really know what to say about it.
Yes, your chance of being randomly selected as mafia is pretty low, but that does not sound like a defense to me. I don't know how to comprehend this apart from (no offence) useless bad move that makes others pick on you. (OR, actually clever trick that have other uses.)
[---suspicious list---]
I moved Jon down as well, because chances are, he's a townie. It's also that I know Jon in real life, and he has an unusual amount of things he has to do around the house.. For whatever reason. Because of that, I'll pin him as IC.
I don't know how do you know who he is in this game, especially when he didn't talk much in this game. (He chance of being town is 7/9 only actually) Being busy may explain why didn't he post much though.
(If you are scum though you can know for sure who he is. And this move may be:
trying to drag a town down along with you when you died / blind defense of your scum partner / get an ally in the game as one can see him trying to help you a few post downward)
I will save you Joe
Vote: Twistedarcher
(he didn't bold his vote here though, is it a mistake or some tricks?)
In addition, Innocent Child may not be the right word here, I think that means 100% totally confirmed townie (for everyone).
I knew at some point a faust + me combo discussion would come up soon.. It might be unavoidable, but I feeeel like we've established me as a Townie.. If so, that'd make it a bit impossible for faust to be my partner..
Gah. Just giving myself a headache now.
I don't feel that you have been established as a Townie, (first you still have 2/9 of chance being scum) no one have stated that you are clearly town, Apart from you claiming VT yourself, which do not prove anything.
Yet I don't think for sure you must be some one, maybe this is just all misunderstanding.
I'm not a fan of making gigantic posts, because by the end I make no sense.. But whatever.
Me personally, I'm not seeing suspicious behavior from myself. In all honesty, I find Twisted more suspicious than anyone else here. He is driving himself against me, trying to make me squeak in some way that he can get everyone in the band wagon.. If that's not what's happening, then he should really tone down his posts, and the amount he posts.
The "2/9" defense isn't exactly strong, but that isn't like it's some sort of thing that should attract people. If anything, it's made me divert from voting on a person. I see things way more optimistically than other people, apparently.. I see it as though there is a high chance of being town, and low chance of being Mafia. That leaves two people, and I have already pointed them out in my head. So by that, all these other people have been counted out of being scum.
People are REALLY misunderstanding that post.. What I meant by that, is again, he has a very low chance of being Mafia. If he was, then I would be on facebook poking and prodding at him, yelling towards him to start posting more.
But am I doing that..? No. Even so, I probably should be doing that, but I don't feel like it would be a good use of his time.
Maybe IC isn't the right word? Whatever the case, if he was Mafia, he would definitely need to be posting A LOT more.
In this game, people take assumptions way too seriously.. Don't talk about what I, or someone else said as though it was concrete and absolute fact. People make assumptions, exaggerations, sarcastic sentences.. Though those are not easy to convey through the internet, read it several different ways before you arise yourself to "HE'S TOTALLY SCUM."
All in all, I believe it to be rather unnecessary focusing on me.. There are 8 other people you could be talking about right now. Say I really was Townie? Wouldn't it be a major mistake on you, and everyone else's part by ignoring a ton of other players for the sake of MAYBE getting out a mafia, when I claim and know, I am not scum?
Gosh danit.
It's rather stupid to me.
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Me personally, I'm not seeing suspicious behavior from myself. In all honesty, I find Twisted more suspicious than anyone else here. He is driving himself against me, trying to make me squeak in some way that he can get everyone in the band wagon.. If that's not what's happening, then he should really tone down his posts, and the amount he posts.
Do you understand that "I don't see why you guys think I'm suspicious" is an argument Mafia and Town would both make?
The "2/9" defense isn't exactly strong, but that isn't like it's some sort of thing that should attract people. If anything, it's made me divert from voting on a person. I see things way more optimistically than other people, apparently.. I see it as though there is a high chance of being town, and low chance of being Mafia. That leaves two people, and I have already pointed them out in my head. So by that, all these other people have been counted out of being scum.
There's lies, damn lies, and statistics. Yes, 2/9 chance means that it is more likely than not that a given person is Town. But taken as a group, we each have a 2/9 chance, so we are all equally likely to be Mafia. In other words, the "2/9" defense is effectively useless until/unless we have an IC.
People are REALLY misunderstanding that post.. What I meant by that, is again, he has a very low chance of being Mafia. If he was, then I would be on facebook poking and prodding at him, yelling towards him to start posting more.
But am I doing that..? No. Even so, I probably should be doing that, but I don't feel like it would be a good use of his time.
You understand that would violate game rules, yes? You're not supposed to talk about the game outside of this thread (or if you're Mafia, your QuickTopic (QT) thread, and that IIRC is locked except at night).
Maybe IC isn't the right word? Whatever the case, if he was Mafia, he would definitely need to be posting A LOT more.
IC = Mod-confirmed Town. Any other definition is inaccurate.
In this game, people take assumptions way too seriously.. Don't talk about what I, or someone else said as though it was concrete and absolute fact. People make assumptions, exaggerations, sarcastic sentences.. Though those are not easy to convey through the internet, read it several different ways before you arise yourself to "HE'S TOTALLY SCUM."
Understand that in forum-based Mafia, all we have to go on are what you say here - your reactions, your arguments, your pleas. RL Mafia provides the opportunity for non-verbal cues (like people who can't lie to your face and have to twitch their eyes away), but here we just read what you posted, and vice-versa - which means that we have to pick up on what sometimes seem to be slim straws indeed in order to build upon potential cases.
All in all, I believe it to be rather unnecessary focusing on me.. There are 8 other people you could be talking about right now. Say I really was Townie? Wouldn't it be a major mistake on you, and everyone else's part by ignoring a ton of other players for the sake of MAYBE getting out a mafia, when I claim and know, I am not scum?
Gosh danit.
It's rather stupid to me.
I'm paying attention to everyone. In fact, you'll note that I voted faust. Wagon-building like this leading to reactions is a vital part of forum Mafia, and I would encourage you to use it to your advantage rather than getting frustrated by it. I can certainly understand, however - see the "Harry Potter Mafia" game for an example where I got a heavy wagon on D1 that I felt was unjustified (though I was, in fact, Mafia).
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Do you understand that "I don't see why you guys think I'm suspicious" is an argument Mafia and Town would both make?
There's lies, damn lies, and statistics. Yes, 2/9 chance means that it is more likely than not that a given person is Town. But taken as a group, we each have a 2/9 chance, so we are all equally likely to be Mafia. In other words, the "2/9" defense is effectively useless until/unless we have an IC.
...
Is there some sort.. Misconception.. On my knowledge..?
No. I know all of this.
The more annoying people get with flawed suggestions and accusations, the more aggressive this is all going to become..
"You understand that would violate game rules, yes? You're not supposed to talk about the game outside of this thread (or if you're Mafia, your QuickTopic (QT) thread, and that IIRC is locked except at night)."
I was talking about telling Jon to post.. Is it seriously not allowed to pop over and say "Start posting on the thread more"? If so, that's a little ridiculous.
"IC = Mod-confirmed Town. Any other definition is inaccurate."
Donn'tt careee..
"Understand that in forum-based Mafia, all we have to go on are what you say here - your reactions, your arguments, your pleas. RL Mafia provides the opportunity for non-verbal cues (like people who can't lie to your face and have to twitch their eyes away), but here we just read what you posted, and vice-versa - which means that we have to pick up on what sometimes seem to be slim straws indeed in order to build upon potential cases."
These are some SLIM straws.
It may just be me working out everything in my own mind, but what I am saying makes quite a lot more sense than what other people THINK I am saying.
"I'm paying attention to everyone. In fact, you'll note that I voted faust. Wagon-building like this leading to reactions is a vital part of forum Mafia, and I would encourage you to use it to your advantage rather than getting frustrated by it. I can certainly understand, however - see the "Harry Potter Mafia" game for an example where I got a heavy wagon on D1 that I felt was unjustified (though I was, in fact, Mafia)."
..Not sure how this is relevant to my post.
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You understand that would violate game rules, yes? You're not supposed to talk about the game outside of this thread (or if you're Mafia, your QuickTopic (QT) thread, and that IIRC is locked except at night).
I find this pretty darn suspicious.
You have been mafia before, you know darn well that mafia quicktopics are locked during the day, and only open at night. Anyone who's played mafia before on this forum knows this.
The fact that's you're throwing in "If I remember correctly, but I have to recall since I'm not mafia in this game" just seems too forced, and like you took an opportunity to say "I think that's how it works, if I recall correctly, cause I'm clearly not mafia in this game".
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The main reason that I'm not voting Box over Twistedarcher is that I'd prefer to lynch a vet today.
This is why: The mafia is more dangerous for us if there are experienced players in it. The worst-case scenario is two vets are scum (pretty unlikely). Having 1 vet and 1 newb is much likelier, and not much better for us; the vet can tell the newb how to act during the night, and it's almost as bad as having two mafia vets.
In both scenarios, taking out a vet could really help us. Should the mafia consist of two newbs, we can afford the mislynch.
In short, I'm suggesting some sort of Minimax strategy (see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimax))
This isn't a bad sentiment, actually. No newbie wants to get lynched. All things being equal, I would prefer to lynch a vet, but if I think someone is scum, I would still vote them. Winning is more important.
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When I was trying investigate the TA issue:
I still like my vote on Twistedarcher. He was the main force pushing this whole BoxOfDOG thing. That, together with his early-game behavior, says scum for me.
The pushing BoxOfDOG thing is reasonable as TA did contribute in it (not very heavily though). When I was investigating" his early-game behavior", TA become slightly more scummy than I originally thought. Maybe he is just a experienced good player so no matter whether he is a townie or scum he is convincing and seemingly innocent. But the more I think think, the more confused I am, I think I would stop here and don't try to do too much this early in the game.
Just a head ups on my style, I get lynched in almost every single game I'm in, because people always find me suspicious for scum-hunting. It's darn frustrating, but I will always push cases and put out things I find suspicious, because that's how you win the game as town. The only games I haven't been lynched in are when I have been a mod-confirmed Innocent Child, and the one time I was actually scum (funnily enough)
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Chairs, do you think BoxofDOG is scum or town?
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Box, most of your defenses seem to be boiling down to the fact that we have no reason to confidently know you're mafia, and therefore we're wrong. Obviously, I don't know with any confidence you're mafia -- it's Day 1, and no one will be able to find mafia with confidence. But the fact that I'm pushing a case doesn't make me scummy, and that seems to be the main reason I'm finding you scummy. You have to remember that if I am town, I don't know if you are town or mafia. Town push cases on town all the time -- just assuming that someone trying to get you lynched is mafia, if you are indeed town, can be a grave misstep sometimes (one that me and Ashersky just did to completely lose another game for town).
If you are town, which I am leaning towards you not being, the fact that I'm pushing a case doesn't mean I have to be scum. You want to look for inconsistencies in my case to prove that I'm scum, just not simply that I AM pushing a case.
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Yes, lynching a player is hard, and we will probably lynch town, since we have a 2/9 chance of hitting mafia.
But, if we don't lynch, we will get a player nightkilled, and that will have a 0/9 chance of hitting mafia.
2/9 > 0/9.
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Chairs, do you think BoxofDOG is scum or town?
Probably frustrated town.
You understand that would violate game rules, yes? You're not supposed to talk about the game outside of this thread (or if you're Mafia, your QuickTopic (QT) thread, and that IIRC is locked except at night).
I find this pretty darn suspicious.
You have been mafia before, you know darn well that mafia quicktopics are locked during the day, and only open at night. Anyone who's played mafia before on this forum knows this.
The fact that's you're throwing in "If I remember correctly, but I have to recall since I'm not mafia in this game" just seems too forced, and like you took an opportunity to say "I think that's how it works, if I recall correctly, cause I'm clearly not mafia in this game".
We've had Mafia daychat enough times that I've pretty much hit the "assume daychat until I can confirm" and I'm at work so should be doing work stuff instead of Mafia (but I'm addicted).
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Box, most of your defenses seem to be boiling down to the fact that we have no reason to confidently know you're mafia, and therefore we're wrong. Obviously, I don't know with any confidence you're mafia -- it's Day 1, and no one will be able to find mafia with confidence. But the fact that I'm pushing a case doesn't make me scummy, and that seems to be the main reason I'm finding you scummy. You have to remember that if I am town, I don't know if you are town or mafia. Town push cases on town all the time -- just assuming that someone trying to get you lynched is mafia, if you are indeed town, can be a grave misstep sometimes (one that me and Ashersky just did to completely lose another game for town).
If you are town, which I am leaning towards you not being, the fact that I'm pushing a case doesn't mean I have to be scum. You want to look for inconsistencies in my case to prove that I'm scum, just not simply that I AM pushing a case.
Finally, a reasonable post I can actually talk about. (Hopefully without being attacked for the smallest detail you can possibly find.)
I'm not sure what everyone expects of me? Some sort of gigantic case, where I line out everything that I have said, and explain my reasons on all of them.. By the end of that, everyone would be on my band wagon, and you'd come up rolling a townie lynch.
Something of that size seems completely useless, and a waste of time for me to put any effort into.
What this all boils down too is that everyone is being too close minded to take any case as any defense. It seems ridiculous to me, because there is such a minimal focus on Jon, Chairs, Arche, and numerous other players. It's not like I am calling them scum, I am simply pointing out the fact that even as this offense against me is slowly decreasing, it still ends up to be that no one is leaning towards me being a VT..
Why? Because I make some sort of tiny mistake in my post? For defending myself in a justified way? For defending myself against an unwarranted, and suspicious attack?
Then you all say "It's D1."
I. Don't. Care.
Whether it's D1 or D5974 is completely irrelevant to me. You're all using just the same slim defenses as I have been using.. You pick out mundane details from my posts, and use a mundane detail to back up your point..
Stepping back, it seems rather hypocritical, doesn't it?
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Box, most of your defenses seem to be boiling down to the fact that we have no reason to confidently know you're mafia, and therefore we're wrong. Obviously, I don't know with any confidence you're mafia -- it's Day 1, and no one will be able to find mafia with confidence. But the fact that I'm pushing a case doesn't make me scummy, and that seems to be the main reason I'm finding you scummy. You have to remember that if I am town, I don't know if you are town or mafia. Town push cases on town all the time -- just assuming that someone trying to get you lynched is mafia, if you are indeed town, can be a grave misstep sometimes (one that me and Ashersky just did to completely lose another game for town).
If you are town, which I am leaning towards you not being, the fact that I'm pushing a case doesn't mean I have to be scum. You want to look for inconsistencies in my case to prove that I'm scum, just not simply that I AM pushing a case.
Finally, a reasonable post I can actually talk about. (Hopefully without being attacked for the smallest detail you can possibly find.)
I'm not sure what everyone expects of me? Some sort of gigantic case, where I line out everything that I have said, and explain my reasons on all of them.. By the end of that, everyone would be on my band wagon, and you'd come up rolling a townie lynch.
Something of that size seems completely useless, and a waste of time for me to put any effort into.
What this all boils down too is that everyone is being too close minded to take any case as any defense. It seems ridiculous to me, because there is such a minimal focus on Jon, Chairs, Arche, and numerous other players. It's not like I am calling them scum, I am simply pointing out the fact that even as this offense against me is slowly decreasing, it still ends up to be that no one is leaning towards me being a VT..
Why? Because I make some sort of tiny mistake in my post? For defending myself in a justified way? For defending myself against an unwarranted, and suspicious attack?
Then you all say "It's D1."
I. Don't. Care.
Whether it's D1 or D5974 is completely irrelevant to me. You're all using just the same slim defenses as I have been using.. You pick out mundane details from my posts, and use a mundane detail to back up your point..
Stepping back, it seems rather hypocritical, doesn't it?
I don't see it as particularly hypocritical.
You don't like anyone's case on you, though, so let's try a different tack - who do you think is scum. TA, right?
Can you give me a brief "Why you should vote for TA" argument?
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"You understand that would violate game rules, yes? You're not supposed to talk about the game outside of this thread (or if you're Mafia, your QuickTopic (QT) thread, and that IIRC is locked except at night)."
I was talking about telling Jon to post.. Is it seriously not allowed to pop over and say "Start posting on the thread more"? If so, that's a little ridiculous.
I took a quick peek at another game and saw that we've had "I'll ping him to take a look at the thread" so it seems that as long as you don't discuss the game at all it'd be acceptable.
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I don't see it as particularly hypocritical.
You don't like anyone's case on you, though, so let's try a different tack - who do you think is scum. TA, right?
Can you give me a brief "Why you should vote for TA" argument?
I'll try to be brief :I
From what I am seeing, Twisted is pushing his scum hunt way too hard.
I have played numerous IRL games of Mafia, where the mafia will push against a townie so incredibly hard, and force upon people "This. Person. Is. Mafia." until it gets down to, "Maybe.. THIS guy is Mafia?"
That's what I think is going to happen, so I'm trying to make that point clear early game.
..
That was like, jamming everything into a bag, pouring it all out and expecting it to be organized neatly.. So I'm hoping that makes sense ._.
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So is this why you suggested No-Lynch? Because we don't have a clue? As I did previously say, that does seem logical to me. I don't really understand this:
Yes, lynching a player is hard, and we will probably lynch town, since we have a 2/9 chance of hitting mafia.
But, if we don't lynch, we will get a player nightkilled, and that will have a 0/9 chance of hitting mafia.
2/9 > 0/9.
Could someone explain that?
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Right now, if we chose randomly, we would only have a 2/9 chance of hitting a mafia player. This is because currently there are 7 town players, and 2 mafia players.
For that reason, any one player is unlikely to be mafia, and has only a 2/9 chance of being mafia. So, we don't have a great chance of catching scum with a lynch today.
However, if we don't lynch someone, mafia will kill someone tonight, and the person they kill will be town. So, our first kill has a 0% chance of being mafia, if we choose to no lynch.
Obviously, 2/9 is better than 0. So even if we don't have a great chance of catching mafia today, it's worth trying.
Also, making people make decisions on whether or not to vote is a great way of catching scum. Without behavioral cues that come from real life mafia, one of the best way to catch players in online mafia is through their voting histories. Having lynches makes people choose who to lynch, which they are later accountable for and which can be used to catch a mafia member.
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Let me know if any of that needs further clarification! :)
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official vote count please though I'm not sure it's changed since the last one. I just want to see where we're at.
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Also, I have a very strong town read on Box as of right now.
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Also, I have a very strong town read on Box as of right now.
Upon further inspection, what I thought was a definite townslip is actually the true situation so I'm back to null-to-town on Box.
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I have no idea what you mean by townslip
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I have no idea what you mean by townslip
I mean I thought he screwed up his signature.
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Vote Count 1.4
chairs (1): Cuttlebone,
Twistedarcher (2): faust, BoxOfDOG
BoxOfDOG (3): Archetype, Twistedarcher, Jdaki
faust (1): chairs
Not Voting (2): jon117killer, Gveoniz
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 1 ends September 3rd, 12:00 PM.
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OK, first of all, thanks TA for trying to elaborate and explain to me. But, reading over the linked wiki newbie guide, it seems to say that the mafia get to kill someone in the night in addition to the lynch.
Right now, if we chose randomly, we would only have a 2/9 chance of hitting a mafia player. This is because currently there are 7 town players, and 2 mafia players.
For that reason, any one player is unlikely to be mafia, and has only a 2/9 chance of being mafia. So, we don't have a great chance of catching scum with a lynch today.
However, if we don't lynch someone, mafia will kill someone tonight, and the person they kill will be town. So, our first kill has a 0% chance of being mafia, if we choose to no lynch.
Obviously, 2/9 is better than 0. So even if we don't have a great chance of catching mafia today, it's worth trying.
Also, making people make decisions on whether or not to vote is a great way of catching scum. Without behavioral cues that come from real life mafia, one of the best way to catch players in online mafia is through their voting histories. Having lynches makes people choose who to lynch, which they are later accountable for and which can be used to catch a mafia member.
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And actually upon reading the post again, that I quoted, I think I understand now, that you are perhaps not suggesting that the night time kill is conditional on the lynch, but simply that we should use our opportunity to kill someone as opposed to not trying.
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And actually upon reading the post again, that I quoted, I think I understand now, that you are perhaps not suggesting that the night time kill is conditional on the lynch, but simply that we should use our opportunity to kill someone as opposed to not trying.
Yeah this is what I mean
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Gveoniz, you are currently not voting for anybody. As we're slowly approaching the deadline, could you make your vote?
Also, Cuttlebone's vote is still from RVS. Do you have any suspicions on chairs or did you just forget to unvote?
And jon117killer, if your vote for TA was serious, you should probably make it bold, because otherwise it won't be counted. And while you're at it, could you state your reasons for this vote?
I feel like now everyone should vote for someone (except if you still believe no-lynch is a good idea - does anyone do that?) Being too careful about your vote is something I start seeing as scummy now, you are giving us nothing to analyze for the next day.
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(If it is scummy It is already too late to cast a random vote so as to mask myself. I am really indecisive in this game.)
Part of me want to vote box but I don't want to put him L-1 yet. Or shall I cast my vote anyway? (just don't quick hammer anyone). But I don't think we can get any more thing from him anyway.
Another part of me want to vote TA, But that is just sort of instinctive guess that I can't even justify myself. (And if jon117killer decided to officially vote for TA, it is also L-1)
The rest of me told me to notice the lurkers. TA have a lot of post. the rest is alright. Jdaki and Archetype (may include me) have slightly less. Cuttlesbone have 5 ingame posts and join177killer have 2 only, I think there may be some problem there.
Vote: join177killer for his strange vote for TA and lack of other activities. You may not be scum, but you have to do something.
Or maybe I will be the one who hammer the agreed lynch when it is truly needed?
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I assume that if we are undecided at end of the "day" that it is no-lynch? Or is it whoever is in the lead? Again sorry for newbie question.
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I assume that if we are undecided at end of the "day" that it is no-lynch? Or is it whoever is in the lead? Again sorry for newbie question.
No Lynch.
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no-lynch
Because we have no Idea who anybody is at this point.
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no-lynch
Because we have no Idea who anybody is at this point.
Did you even read through this thread? We've already discussed a no-lynch, and it is pretty clear that it won't benefit town. If you have any new arguments on this, please share. Else I will judge your vote as quite scummy.
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Jon, have you read the thread?
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So, the weekend is coming (and I won't have a lot of time for mafia then), and on tuesday we must have a decision. I thought I'd share my reads on everybody here, maybe this will get things moving a bit. So here it goes, from most scum to most town:
Twistedarcher: This is mostly due to early-game behaviour. First he states that there was nothing to say on the setup, but as soon as I come up with my BP idea, he immediately gives an elaborate counter-argument. So it's likely that he's thought this through before, and not sharing your thoughts with everyone is scum tell for me. Also, because he's a vet, I'm weighing every suspicion against him heavier.
jon117killer: Heavy lurking, and if he posts at all, he barely says anything. Now he advocates no-lynch, something we already have dismissed earlier.
BoxOfDOG: Right now, I'm rather tending light scum, but it's definitely not a strong suspicion. What speaks for him is that his posts were consistent - he didn't change his attitude when he realized it could get him lynched. That is something I'd expect scum to do.
Jdaki: I'm mostly basing this on his "ohmygod, I don't want to take a position because of what others might think of me"-post. But I can also see that coming from a newbie town player.
Archetype: Hasn't posted for quite some time, and before that, the only thing he did was pushing the BoxOfDOG wagon. Pretty much a null read for me, though I would expect a vet townie to take more of a leading position.
Cuttlebone: Has not posted much, but all his posts seem quite reasonable. I'd like to see him make a more serious vote, but there's still time for that.
chairs: Pretty much the same as with Cuttlebone, only has been more active. I also feel that him not jumping one of the existing wagons and instead making a new case is rather townie. TA's suspicion on him for not being sure whether mafia has daychat doesn't strike me as convincing.
Gveoniz: I really get a feeling that he's town, though it's hard to properly explain. Well, nothing he said sounded suspicious, and he's contributed a fair amount.
faust: You know what? I'm town.
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Lord, forum mafia is a lot of reading. Not just text reading, but subtext reading.
Hokay, first of all we seem to be out of the random voting/joke accusation stage of the game, and have started to get a read on some people. I'm going to choose to Unvote: chairs. His posts have been very reasonable, pretty frequent, and I don't have much reason to think that he is scum.
If we haven't settled the lynch/no-lynch decision, I do think that we should avoid the no-lynch. More important than all the statistical reasoning that has been brought up many times, lynching someone forces players to make bolder claims (even if those claims are founded by extremely loose evidence). This allows us to see reactions to the result (do we learn the lynched individuals role after he/she dies?) as well as the nights events to more easily identify patterns or disruptions in patterns in other players, and may provide quite a lot of information.
In Short: Lynching someone provides us much more information than a no-lynch, something that we are sorely lacking at the moment.
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Lord, forum mafia is a lot of reading. Not just text reading, but subtext reading.
Hokay, first of all we seem to be out of the random voting/joke accusation stage of the game, and have started to get a read on some people. I'm going to choose to Unvote: chairs. His posts have been very reasonable, pretty frequent, and I don't have much reason to think that he is scum.
If we haven't settled the lynch/no-lynch decision, I do think that we should avoid the no-lynch. More important than all the statistical reasoning that has been brought up many times, lynching someone forces players to make bolder claims (even if those claims are founded by extremely loose evidence). This allows us to see reactions to the result (do we learn the lynched individuals role after he/she dies?) as well as the nights events to more easily identify patterns or disruptions in patterns in other players, and may provide quite a lot of information.
In Short: Lynching someone provides us much more information than a no-lynch, something that we are sorely lacking at the moment.
We do indeed get the role and alignment of a lynched player, as well as any players who were killed in the night (in standard Mafia, anyway - check out the currently running Dr. Who-themed Dinner Party variant for a variant where night kills don't generate "flips"). Lynching, and the reasons people have for voting, are effectively town's biggest weapons towards identifying and ultimately lynching Mafia instead of just "scum".
Read lists, like faust's, are also helpful - often it's important to know not just who someone voted for, but why (and why that person got the vote over everyone else). I'm personally reliably terrible about posting read lists (I basically do my voting based on what I can only describe as "mouthfeel" - frequently it won't be the overall tone someone sets but a single particularly out-of-place feeling post that prompts my vote), but it's a good idea for everybody to post one before a majority lynch is decided - and it's considered common courtesy to announce when you've put somebody at 1 vote from lynch (L-1) and to give them time to respond to their imminent lynch, particularly if someone else announces intent to hammer (place the final vote, lynching them). This is typically when you have your PR claims and counter-claims happen.
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In terms of a more official vote, which we should definitely begin to start stacking, given the weekend and tuesday deadline, I'm going to Vote: Jon117killer. He's been very quiet (slightly hypocritical observation, I realize), but more importantly, unlike the rest of the (us?) lurkers, he has no expressed himself enough for us to possibly identify any patterns after tonight. Earlier I think someone mentioned he had housework or something to do, but time's running a bit short now.
There's still enough time/voting space for him to reply and show himself a bit, and if he does I will rescind my vote, provided he isn't especially suspicious.
Thank you chairs, very informative. Forum etiquette is hard to pick up. I'll make a read list within the next day or two. Certainly before the weekend is through.
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jon, you really only have these three posts in d1, It may be your play style, but we wouldn't know what this is if you don't have any explanation.
I have played Mafia in real life a lot.
If you are true newbie that have no idea how Mafia works, this game may not be easy to handle, but I don't understand why are you like this now, unless it is how you do every games IRL, or it is some sort of clever (weird) Mafia strategy.
I will save you Joe
Vote: Twistedarcher
This action is also strange, Maybe I shall listen to your explanation? Suddenly pop up and help another player can be seen as basically helping your mafia partner, but this one is too obvious to be treated as scum move.
no-lynch
Because we have no Idea who anybody is at this point.
(I guess "[]vote: no-lynch[/]" would be the right way to do it, if you really want no-lynch.( I am not voting here.))
This is what originally raised some of our suspicion of Box since most of us think that this is a bad idea. This action is understandable but we have rejected this idea 3 pages ago. Basic reason is if we don't do anything now, We would still have no Idea who anybody is next day.
I can not tell who you are right now,because there are nothing else for me to read, but if you are town, you are not helping us like this. I will keep the vote here for now.
Note: Earlier box mentioned that you are very busy in real life, which is understandable, but maybe you can inform and explain to us of this problem?
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I want to make a list but I can't figure out the exact order.
I realize this thing right now is no very helpful as I am not sure about many thing. I also didn't not pay enough attention on some of them here to notice anything. I am just trying to write some feeling that cannot at all tell who they are.
(The order here is not exact, especially in each level.).
Slightly Higher suspicion:
BOX: Mainly his behavior after people starts concentrating on him. It start to feel more normal and reasonable now though. I don't think we can get too much more things from him. Actually I have a feeling that he will just flip town and everyone will just get frustrated. (Maybe not exactly everyone, himself will certainly be anyway)
jon117killer: He is lurking also have strange behavior in the latter 2 posts (out of his three real posts), I have my questions for him above already.
Twistedarcher: Don't have any exact point against him, I only have vague feeling. Faust have some reasoning that seems reasonable, but I can't really see much from him. Only thing thing is that he is a vet so even he is mafia he can be as town as everyone else (which can also apply to other vets, he just posted more to be notable)
Medium suspicion:
Archetype: No posts in few days, I think his vote for Box is alright. Not very notable.
chairs: Reasonable posts, nothing to say otherwise.
Cuttlebone: Also isn't notable, is being reasonable, lack of content early on.
Jdaki: Some of his post is as he mention just "newbie questions". Other posts with actually content are alright.
Faust: Most of his post are logical and reasonable and not suspicious, except for his one post "defense" for Box, which I can understand now, I actually agree with some parts of that post. As I mentioned I don't expect more from box.
Low suspicion:
Gveoniz: Before Day 1 I received a PM form the mod specifically for me regarding the town identity of Gveonz, I think I will trust the mod.
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My scum to chum, roughly:
Lurkers = Scum -- jon, archetype (these are at the top because of their low post count)
Gveoniz
BOX
faust
Cuttlebone
Jdaki
TA
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Yes, this listing seems like a good idea, I will provide some brief thoughts where I actually have them
BoxofDog still has my vote, for the reasons given before, and his latter posts haven't shone through to me to change my mind at this stage.
jon117killer is hot on his heels though, lack of posts except very brief ones, including a couple of completely unjustified votes which are not helpful to us at all.
Lower down:
faust for the defence of Box then somewhat abrupt turnaround, but later posts have been much more reasonable to me
Everyone else I haven't really had any suspicious thoughts about.
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I'd be on board for lynching Jon, although I think he has less of a chance of flipping town than Box does.
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Sorry guys for not posting more. I do not like to chat a lot, ad it is also my first game online and not being able to see other peoples faces makes it really hard to play.
With all that said i will then
UN Vote no-lynch
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Jon, have you read the thread?
I will say i have not read it in the past but will try to read it more often
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My internet was down yesterday, and today. But it's fixed!
So I'm rather glad I haven't been prodded.. That's always a little embarrassing.
Anyway.. I'm seeing that things are going kind of lazily along?
I'm feeling pretty refreshed after a shower,and stressed for other reasons, so I'm not really sure what to make of everything..
At the moment, I don't have any major scum-reads. All of the accusations going around seems pointedly at me, faust, jon, and Gveoniz.
Whatever the case, I can't make a list again; a lot of my opinions changing on people.
I'm trying to put some sort of sense into this, but I'd prefer people throw at me a whole bunch of catch-up..? I know I could go back and read, but my thoughts/emotions are too conflicted to pan out everything sufficiently on my own.
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chairs, could you explain your scum list? It's quite different from mine. Especially, what makes Gveoniz scummy and TA townie in your eyes?
Also, I will Vote: Archetype now. I don't like this heavy lurking short before the deadline.
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chairs, could you explain your scum list? It's quite different from mine. Especially, what makes Gveoniz scummy and TA townie in your eyes?
Also, I will Vote: Archetype now. I don't like this heavy lurking short before the deadline.
Gveoniz has an "acti-lurker" feel. Scum, particularly newbie scum, typically try to slide by on minimal thread contribution, and try to (when they do post) make their posts as uncontroversial as possible. They also have a hard time with reads, since they -know- who the townfolk are. This is actually what makes reads so important.
I've played with TA before. When he's felt townie to me, he's been scum, and when he felt scummy he was town. So in my mind scummy!TA is (usually) more likely to be town.
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I'm here, sorry everyone. Rereading now.
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Would lynch: BoxofDOG, Jonkiller, Archetype
Could lynch: Cuttlebone, Jdaki
Won't lynch: Faust, Gveoniz, Chairs
I still think that BoxofDOG has the highest chance of being scum, but Jon's lurking is very worrying. The thing about it, though, is that I think that's more likely to come from a new player getting town than a new player getting mafia. If he was mafia, I have to think he'd be more excited and posting more, but who knows.
Faust is right that Arch's lurking is very worrying, and he hasn't been around that much. I'll go re-read Arch right now and see if anything is there.
Cuttlebone and Jdaki have been lurking, but not as much as Jon.
Faust, Gveoniz, and Chairs have been among the more active players, and have all made good points and contributed to finding scum. I'd want them to stay alive going further into the game.
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Ok, reread. Not a whole lot.
I'd be up for a Jon lynch. I hate to be a sheep, but Gveoniz (I probably butchered your name) laid out a fairly good case about him and he seems a bit off for someone who's apparently played Mafia before. Vote:jon
BoxOfDog I'm also okay with.
Townread on Faust for actively contributing.
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There's not a lot for Arch. Started off joking that he's mafia, RVS vote on Jonkiller.
And then there's this:
Vote:BoxOfDog
I don't think no lynch is a good idea.
Note that he's voting Box specifically because he disagrees with him on a theory question. It wasn't a vote because of BOX's "I'm obviously town" bit -- it was a vote simply based on a theory disagreement, and a theory disagreement that others have made. Now (in his most recent post), he's moved away from Box and towards Jon, once Jon has gotten some pressure.
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I dislike that Jon hasn't even read the thread and hasn't contributed one bit, but I'm just not sure how likely he is to turn up scum.
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I dislike that Jon hasn't even read the thread and hasn't contributed one bit, but I'm just not sure how likely he is to turn up scum.
I believe this is Jon's very first Forum Mafia game. He's played IRL Mafia plenty, but he probably doesn't know half of what we're talking about when we say "lurking" or "RVS" "IC" etc.
At this point, I think that you're rather set on voting for me, Twisted. I'm not sure why, since most of what I have been saying is really that scummy.
"Obviously not scum" could be said by either, Mafia or Townie, and you're going for the former.. Not all the sure why, but oh well.
Still, I don't have any scum read specifically on people, so I'll have to do some close examining of people's activity.
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I dislike that Jon hasn't even read the thread and hasn't contributed one bit, but I'm just not sure how likely he is to turn up scum.
I believe this is Jon's very first Forum Mafia game. He's played IRL Mafia plenty, but he probably doesn't know half of what we're talking about when we say "lurking" or "RVS" "IC" etc.
At this point, I think that you're rather set on voting for me, Twisted. I'm not sure why, since most of what I have been saying is really that scummy.
"Obviously not scum" could be said by either, Mafia or Townie, and you're going for the former.. Not all the sure why, but oh well.
Still, I don't have any scum read specifically on people, so I'll have to do some close examining of people's activity.
isn't really that scummy*
..
Woops.
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I dislike that Jon hasn't even read the thread and hasn't contributed one bit, but I'm just not sure how likely he is to turn up scum.
I believe this is Jon's very first Forum Mafia game. He's played IRL Mafia plenty, but he probably doesn't know half of what we're talking about when we say "lurking" or "RVS" "IC" etc.
At this point, I think that you're rather set on voting for me, Twisted. I'm not sure why, since most of what I have been saying is really that scummy.
"Obviously not scum" could be said by either, Mafia or Townie, and you're going for the former.. Not all the sure why, but oh well.
Still, I don't have any scum read specifically on people, so I'll have to do some close examining of people's activity.
Town have a higher incentive to find scum, mafia have a higher incentive to convince other people they aren't scum.
I am voting you because I think you are most likely to be scum!
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I dislike that Jon hasn't even read the thread and hasn't contributed one bit, but I'm just not sure how likely he is to turn up scum.
I believe this is Jon's very first Forum Mafia game. He's played IRL Mafia plenty, but he probably doesn't know half of what we're talking about when we say "lurking" or "RVS" "IC" etc.
At this point, I think that you're rather set on voting for me, Twisted. I'm not sure why, since most of what I have been saying is really that scummy.
"Obviously not scum" could be said by either, Mafia or Townie, and you're going for the former.. Not all the sure why, but oh well.
Still, I don't have any scum read specifically on people, so I'll have to do some close examining of people's activity.
Town have a higher incentive to find scum, mafia have a higher incentive to convince other people they aren't scum.
I am voting you because I think you are most likely to be scum!
I think you're misunderstanding that everyone has an incentive to convince people they aren't scum, especially when 90% of the players in the game are strictly focusing on one player.
Now I am simply addressing why you are still doing so zeroing in on me, when I am no longer the issue, and people are still spreading out to investigate everyone.. Not just me.
I'm not worried about Jon because I don't think he's lurking. You have to read to lurk, and he hasn't been doing that.
I'm not sure about Gveoniz because his posts don't really point out anything that scummy.
The only people I am suspecting now, is you and Faust. Reading back, Faust's posts are suspicious to an amount.
I'll only change my vote when I'm confident you're not focusing all your efforts on me, simply because of one tiny thing I said.
This game is about investigation and accusations, not a court trial for one person.
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Would lynch: BoxofDOG, Jonkiller, Archetype
Could lynch: Cuttlebone, Jdaki
Won't lynch: Faust, Gveoniz, Chairs
I still think that BoxofDOG has the highest chance of being scum, but Jon's lurking is very worrying. The thing about it, though, is that I think that's more likely to come from a new player getting town than a new player getting mafia. If he was mafia, I have to think he'd be more excited and posting more, but who knows.
Faust is right that Arch's lurking is very worrying, and he hasn't been around that much. I'll go re-read Arch right now and see if anything is there.
Cuttlebone and Jdaki have been lurking, but not as much as Jon.
Faust, Gveoniz, and Chairs have been among the more active players, and have all made good points and contributed to finding scum. I'd want them to stay alive going further into the game.
It's interesting to read a vet's thinking process and that it is not clear cut- for day 1, there appears to be a very fine line between posting enough and not posting enough and conversely between posting too much and posting enough!
I do agree with the logic though- it would make for an easy mafia win if all the people that actually provide any talk and analysis were eliminated. This pushes me further towards jon vs Box who has said lots. But at this stage, I have to weigh my instinct relatively highly in my decision making and that still maintains my vote for Box. I do think that jon's lack of attendance has not been helping us but I would agree with TA that surely mafia would prefer to actively disrupt town as opposed to just a passive lack of use. But then it could be a genius double bluff!?
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Right now, I'd like to keep Box alive - not because I think he's town, but because I'd like to reread his posts here with the additional information we have on D2. I believe it'll be much easier to tell which side he is on then.
I'd prefer to lynch one of the lurkers - because they didn't contribute much, a reread on D2 won't be all that helpful here. Archetype's lurking is more suspicious to me because he's a vet and knows that this is not helping town. Also, he starts to contribute again at the exact moment someone votes for him, which seems scummy. So, my vote remains for now, but I would switch to jon if needed.
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As most of you know i am new to playing online, and you guys are using terms i don't under stand so if someone chould just give me a quick rundown that would be great.
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As I've been finding out, there as so many terms. Some few are on the listed Newbie guide and FAQ as linked on first page somewhere.
Otherwise, some make sense in context. What acronyms are causing you trouble? Perhaps it's one I've managed to learn!
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As most of you know i am new to playing online, and you guys are using terms i don't under stand so if someone chould just give me a quick rundown that would be great.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5315.0
Vote Count 1.4
Twistedarcher (1): BoxOfDOG
BoxOfDOG (2): Twistedarcher, Jdaki
faust (1): chairs
jon17killer (3): Gveoniz, Cuttlebone, Archetype
Archetype (1): faust
Not Voting (2): jon117killer,
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 1 ends September 3rd, 12:00 PM.
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Thank you mail-mi.
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After going back and reading the thread it was wrong to vote for no-lynch.
But we have to lynch someone for sure. I don't know who i will be voting for at this point.
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We don't have much time, I accept a jon or Box lynch. TA or Archetype can also be possible.
chairs, could you explain your scum list? It's quite different from mine. Especially, what makes Gveoniz scummy and TA townie in your eyes?
Also, I will Vote: Archetype now. I don't like this heavy lurking short before the deadline.
Gveoniz has an "acti-lurker" feel. Scum, particularly newbie scum, typically try to slide by on minimal thread contribution, and try to (when they do post) make their posts as uncontroversial as possible. They also have a hard time with reads, since they -know- who the townfolk are. This is actually what makes reads so important.
I've played with TA before. When he's felt townie to me, he's been scum, and when he felt scummy he was town. So in my mind scummy!TA is (usually) more likely to be town.
I have been quite uncertain about everything. But I think a town would have a even harder time to be sure since they don't know who the townfolk are.
And do your "acti-lurking" means this thing?
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Active_lurking
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We don't have much time, I accept a jon or Box lynch. TA or Archetype can also be possible.
chairs, could you explain your scum list? It's quite different from mine. Especially, what makes Gveoniz scummy and TA townie in your eyes?
Also, I will Vote: Archetype now. I don't like this heavy lurking short before the deadline.
Gveoniz has an "acti-lurker" feel. Scum, particularly newbie scum, typically try to slide by on minimal thread contribution, and try to (when they do post) make their posts as uncontroversial as possible. They also have a hard time with reads, since they -know- who the townfolk are. This is actually what makes reads so important.
I've played with TA before. When he's felt townie to me, he's been scum, and when he felt scummy he was town. So in my mind scummy!TA is (usually) more likely to be town.
I have been quite uncertain about everything. But I think a town would have a even harder time to be sure since they don't know who the townfolk are.
And do your "acti-lurking" means this thing?
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Active_lurking
Yes.
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24 hours to deadline. I'm okay with an Box, Jon, or Arch lynch.
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Vote: Archetype . I think he has a higher chance of being scum than Jon does, and I've seen a lot of people being okay lynching him.
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Hmmm I'm really wavering to move my vote from Box to Jon finally, but that will place him in a precarious position from my reading of some other posts + guides. What do people think?
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We need to lynch someone. Jon is better than no one. It doesn't seem like many people are around this weekend... if Arch and Box aren't gonna happen, I will vote Jon, and then with your vote that's 5. Might be best just to get a lynch in, since this game is moving so slowly right now..
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I'd rather let the new guys get one cycle in, if possible.
vote: archetype for being the least active of the vets ;D
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Hah, yeah. Haven't been as active as I would have liked to be.
To compare the vets to their past metas, Twistedarcher has started to rise in scummitude due to his similiarities to Innovation TA while chairs is his normal easy-going self. Though that vote on me and using the reasoning of "Lets let the new guys get a cycle" seems a convienant way to push a lynch. Archetype is sinking back into his past meta of being lurky, partly due to school.
I'm not going to argue that I'm not lurking, but I think I've contributed much more than say Cuttlebone or Jon. So I think if you're using inactivity as a basis for a lynch, you should be looking at one of these two.
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So it seems we'll have a jon or Archetype lynch today. Jdaki, Box - are you okay with putting your vote on one of them? There's not much time left.
Note that you should wait to cast your final vote. We want to at least give them a chance to claim.
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Remember people, the deadline is in 12 hours, and we need to lynch someone.
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Vote:Archetype
Because i don't want to die
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Arch, I agree that they're lurking more, but you know better!
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Just 3 hours from dead line. Shall I hammer or something?
Attempt on time tag: (your time)
September 03, 2013, 12:00:00 pm
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I think I will hammer if no one responds before that.
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If you're around until the deadline, you could wait for Arche to post. If not, I would say you should just hammer.
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I think I would be able to stay till at least 11 am forum time, I will be sure to vote before going away.
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Yeah, hammer Arch, we need to lynch him.
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I can do it now, any more top say?
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I misspelled that "any more to say?"
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I mean, Arch's not on. Normally we'd wait for someone to claim, just in case they were going to lynch PR, but unfortunately deadline is in less than an hour so we don't have this luxury. Usually, we try to get lynches sorted out with more time before deadline just in case we're about to lynch a great PR, but we don't really have a choice here, unfortunately.
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I will do it now then.
Vote: Archetype
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Cool. Hopefully he's scum, but at the very least I hope he's not a PR. If you are a PR I'm not gonna be happy Arch :(
Tomorrow, let's all be more active. We need to set a soft deadline so we don't get so close to lynch again. Hopefully we will have more interactions left to try and find scum.
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THREAD LOCKED
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Final Vote Count
Twistedarcher (1): BoxOfDOG
BoxOfDOG (1): Jdaki
jon17killer (2): Cuttlebone, Archetype
Archetype (5): faust, Twistedarcher, chairs, jon117killer, Gveoniz
Not Voting (0):
With 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch.
Accusations were flying everywhere, but they weren't really getting anywhere. They realized night would soon be upon them, so the chose Archetype to lynch. They hung him on a tree, and upon searching him, they found...
Nothing.
Archetype, the Vanilla Townie, has been lynched.
Morning deadlines don't work well for me, so N1 actions are due to me by tomorrow, September 4, at 11:00 PM.
Night 1 Start
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Damn. Well at least he wasn't a doctor or cop or some such at least. Those votes flew in in the time I was at work. Guess it's gonna be a sleepless night in Samadush... :(
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This Thread is LOCKED. That means NO POSTING until sudgy unlocks the thread at start of Day2
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As yuma said, this thread is locked, which means no posting. Even if I forget to physically lock the thread (like I did here) nobody may post. If any further posts are made this game while the thread is locked, they will be modkilled.
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It was a very restless night in Samadush. Most people couldn't sleep, and a few kept watch in their houses all night. One did, however, manage to fall asleep. It wasn't a good idea.
In the morning, when they decided to try to find the mafia again, they realized that Twistedarcher was missing. They went to his house, and he was dead. He was a Vanilla Townie.
DAY 2 START
THREAD UNLOCKED
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Well there goes another town and we are still no closer to finding out who are the Mafia.
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At least we still have our PRs. This is actually not the worst thing that could have happened.
Well, now it's D2 and some of us have additional information. They should consider whether a claim can help town. I thought about it and here's what I think:
People who probably should claim:
- a Cop with a guilty result
We get to take out one mafia for sure. The cop will then probably be killed at night, but that's worth it.
- a Tracker who investigated someone and got the result "Twistedarcher"
If the Tracker found someone who targeted TA this night, that person must be scum. Therefore, this is the same as a "guilty" result for a cop.
- Mafia Goon/Mafia Roleblocker
This would really help town, you know?
People who can consider claiming:
- a Cop with an "innocent" result
This gives us two ICs. So we know the two mafia are among five players, and our chances of lynching scum increase to 40%. I'm not sure whether it's worth it, but I tend towards not claiming.
- the Bulletproof Townie
This gives us an IC that cannot be killed at night, so we have a 2/6 chance of lynching scum rather than a 2/7 chance. It also makes it likelier for our other PR to hit something at night (they know they need not target the IC). Downside is it also makes it easier for the mafia to kill our other PR.
People who should not claim:
- everyone else.
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The other thing to do is analyzing the votes from yesterday and the night kill.
So, the people who voted for Archetype are of course somewhat suspicious. I expect to find one of the scum team among them. So who voted for him? Me, TA, chairs, jon, Gveoniz. Well, I know I'm town, and we all know now TA was town. That leaves chairs, jon and Gveoniz.
jon's main reason for voting Arche was not to get lynched himself, so that doesn't say much about his alignment. chairs I think was one of the main reasons we lynched Arche over jon, which makes him somewhat suspicious - with his vote, the wagon on Arche reached the same size as that on jon. Gveoniz is suspicious because of his "is it okay if I hammer now?" questions. What they really seem to ask is: "Do I look scummy if I hammer now?", and that's a scum concern.
On the night kill: I guess taking out another vet is a reasonable thing for scum to do. But why TA over chairs? There was cearly more suspicion on TA during D1, and scum usually tries to kill the person with the least suspicion on them. Of course, the mafia might want to lure us into thinking just that, and that's something we have to keep in mind.
Concluding all this, I will Vote: chairs because I think he's the mos likely scum right now.
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I like your line of inquiry, but my experience is that on f.ds, particularly with newer players (or at least new-to-forum players), it's better to consider who the NK suspected. TA also had a few breadcrumbs that lightly indicated potential to be one of our PRs, which is I think part of why he was NK'd.
I definitely think the appropriate decision here is to vote: gveoniz.
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Actually, upon re-reading, you know what? I'm going to take a dive into the deep end of the believe pool and vote for TA's strongest scum read - vote: boxofdog.
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It's true that at least we didn't lose the special roles, but it seems that unless it is fitting one of those examples faust provided that the PR should not claim. I am interested to see what happens with respect to counter claims and how we are meant to tell the difference.
When it comes to suspicions I must say I am pretty annoyed I didn't exert more pressure on Jon. I am really thinking that he did not help us out in day 1.
Otherwise, I think that I quite like bits of both of the reasonings above.
I was definitely in thinking chairs was gonna be targeted for the night kill out of the two vets we had left, he has made a huge number of interesting points and been really active. Simply the fact he is still here raises my suspicion of him, in addition to faust's argument.
It is tempting to analyse TA's most suspect list and say that a newbie would target him but that seems almost too naive a move by the scum. Perhaps not though. That would certainly put my suspicions back on Box.
Weighing up in my mind altogether though and the gut instinct turns me over to vote: BoxofDog
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It's true that at least we didn't lose the special roles, but it seems that unless it is fitting one of those examples faust provided that the PR should not claim. I am interested to see what happens with respect to counter claims and how we are meant to tell the difference.
When it comes to suspicions I must say I am pretty annoyed I didn't exert more pressure on Jon. I am really thinking that he did not help us out in day 1.
Otherwise, I think that I quite like bits of both of the reasonings above.
I was definitely in thinking chairs was gonna be targeted for the night kill out of the two vets we had left, he has made a huge number of interesting points and been really active. Simply the fact he is still here raises my suspicion of him, in addition to faust's argument.
It is tempting to analyse TA's most suspect list and say that a newbie would target him but that seems almost too naive a move by the scum. Perhaps not though. That would certainly put my suspicions back on Box.
Weighing up in my mind altogether though and the gut instinct turns me over to vote: BoxofDog
I, too, would be suspicious of me in your shoes - I legitimately expected at least one of the vets to be Mafia on principle of having someone to provide advice in their QT (hence my amenability to lynching archetype over jon). Alas, it appears we were all town (as, yes, you would find if you lynched me - though I don't recommend going that route to confirm).
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Uh... guys? Are you there? May I remind you all of Twistedarcher's final words?
Tomorrow, let's all be more active. We need to set a soft deadline so we don't get so close to lynch again. Hopefully we will have more interactions left to try and find scum.
Lurking is NOT COOL right now. If you don't have much time, thats okay, but tell us.
Vote: Cuttlebone
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Gveoniz is suspicious because of his "is it okay if I hammer now?" questions. What they really seem to ask is: "Do I look scummy if I hammer now?", and that's a scum concern.
My intention was to make sure not to make a bad move for the town and give archetype chance to speak if he happened to be here.
I like your line of inquiry, but my experience is that on f.ds, particularly with newer players (or at least new-to-forum players), it's better to consider who the NK suspected. TA also had a few breadcrumbs that lightly indicated potential to be one of our PRs, which is I think part of why he was NK'd.
I definitely think the appropriate decision here is to vote: gveoniz.
Are there additional reasons apart from what you mentioned before?
For breadcrumbs, who can read them unless they know enough forum mafia?
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BoxofDog does seem like a mafia. He parable killed Twistedarcher during the night.
Vote: BoxofDog
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Uh... guys? Are you there? May I remind you all of Twistedarcher's final words?
Tomorrow, let's all be more active. We need to set a soft deadline so we don't get so close to lynch again. Hopefully we will have more interactions left to try and find scum.
Lurking is NOT COOL right now. If you don't have much time, thats okay, but tell us.
Vote: Cuttlebone
TA mentioned soft deadlines.
I propose that we all work towards a soft deadline of Friday, September 13th, at 9 PM Forum Time.
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TA mentioned soft deadlines.
I propose that we all work towards a soft deadline of Friday, September 13th, at 9 PM Forum Time.
[/quote]
Agreed
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BoxofDog does seem like a mafia. He parable killed Twistedarcher during the night.
Vote: BoxofDog
jon, would you take a moment to explain why you think Box is scum? You appear fairly content to lurk, chiming in minimally when needed (you're not the only one in this game, mind you), and I want to know more about the man, the myth, the legend - jon117killer. To paraphrase a song... Tell me all your thoughts on Dog, why you really want to lynch him.
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Vote Count 2.1
Cuttlebone (1): faust
BoxOfDOG (3): chairs, Jdaki, jon117killer {L-1}
Not Voting (3): Cuttlebone, BoxOfDOG, Gveoniz
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Day 2 ends September 16th, 11:00 PM.
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BoxofDog does seem like a mafia. He probably killed Twistedarcher during the night.
Vote: BoxofDog
jon, would you take a moment to explain why you think Box is scum? You appear fairly content to lurk, chiming in minimally when needed (you're not the only one in this game, mind you), and I want to know more about the man, the myth, the legend - jon117killer. To paraphrase a song... Tell me all your thoughts on Dog, why you really want to lynch him.
I have played Mafia with him in the past and when he is a mafia he does not like to have people accusing him. it may or may not be try to this game but there is a 50/50 chance.
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Hi everyone,
Some thoughts:
I was surprised with the archetype vote on day 1, I had thought jon was going to get lynched with the rate of votes being pulled towards him. That being said I am glad that he seems to be a bit more active this time around and that we gave him more time to play. The fact that we lynched town as the cost however- unfortunate, but nothing that we weren't kind of expecting. At least it wasn't a power role.
Was expecting one of the veterans to get lynched, since they were leading the discussion. The fact that TA was the target, less expected, and slightly raises suspicion on Chairs for reasons already detailed in faust's post. However not strongly enough for me to cast a vote, but that could obviously change. So far he's been quite helpful so I'm not highly suspicious, but I am wary, particularly because of his sudden decisive vote at the beginning of Day 2.
Regarding TA's parting words (last will and testament?), I agree that we should have a soft deadline, Chairs mentioned tongiht (Friday) at 9pm forum time. I will agree to this.
However, I think that we should not let a lynching hang at (L-1) until we are sure we want to lynch (in this case, BoxofDog). Hanging it at this stage is quite dangerous. It would be too easy for someone to hammer it in before we have really discussed it or he has had a chance to defend himself. I think that we need a little more discussion before we get to the point where a single post with no warning can hammer in a vote.
That being said, I am still suspicious of Jon due to his relatively low level of activity/substantial input, and his bandwagon vote of BoxofDog that put him at (L-1). vote:Jon117killer
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My mistake, I misread the date today. Soft deadline of September 13th, not tonight (the 6th). That's even better - we have more time to discuss, and more reason we should be careful of letting an L-1 vote hang this early in the Day.
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L-1 isn't actually so bad, except in mylo/lylo situations (situations where a wrong lynch loses the game).
However, it's crucial that when you vote for someone and put them at L-1 you announce it. What would we have done if Cuttlebone had voted for Box without realizing it was the hammer? If you announce it, then any scum quickhammering is more obviously pulling the trigger on the mislynch purposefully, and boom easy mafia lynch the next day.
unvote.
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I want to post something today to help things ticking along. I am still fairly happy with my vote where it is, but also glad someone didn't hammer after jon's vote before Box has a chance to say something. I am getting a bit confused by the changing votes of chairs and faust, chairs sounded a little worried about Box being so quickly at L-1, faust voting to stimulate some action from cuttlebone reasonable enough, but are you now happy with chairs?
I agree with the idea of being more certain by next Friday and the soft deadline.
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I reread chairs a little and most of what he does seems quite townie to me. For example, there's this post:
Also, I have a very strong town read on Box as of right now.
Upon further inspection, what I thought was a definite townslip is actually the true situation so I'm back to null-to-town on Box.
I just can't see why scum would do something like that. Also, unvote for now. I haven't yet made my mind up on the Box/jon cases.
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By the way, I'm fine with the soft deadline. Just keep in mind that it's 3 am in my time zone, so I probably won't be around short before the deadline. Same goes for the hard deadline.
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Since you guys have brought up good points not to vote at this time Unvote
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Uh... guys? Are you there? May I remind you all of Twistedarcher's final words?
Tomorrow, let's all be more active. We need to set a soft deadline so we don't get so close to lynch again. Hopefully we will have more interactions left to try and find scum.
Lurking is NOT COOL right now. If you don't have much time, thats okay, but tell us.
Vote: Cuttlebone
TA mentioned soft deadlines.
I propose that we all work towards a soft deadline of Friday, September 13th, at 9 PM Forum Time.
I agree with this.
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TA also had a few breadcrumbs that lightly indicated potential to be one of our PRs, which is I think part of why he was NK'd.
For breadcrumbs, who can read them unless they know enough forum mafia?
For chairs: Both dead vet mentioned that you seems like normal town chairs, but I have one question here:
You mentioned breadcrumbs from TA maybe part of the reason he was night killed, but I think that no one alive (except for you) have played online mafia enough to read breadcrumb, why would you suspect this being a reason?
Unless, this is part of the reason why your team night killed TA.
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I find this while rereading today, nothing too special but I would like to point out
I take unwarranted, and untrue accusations as more of an insult than anything else..
It is just a game, any accusation is not directed to you, but to your role in this game.
This is a slight thing that I feel suspicious to you.
Just an inquiry:
It's pretty likely however that he is town.
Some of his behavior and reaction that is found "scummy" might be mistakes, but I don't find he any townier than one normal would. I am probably missing something, can you point that out?
He's simply talking about the chances of it being that I'm a townie.
There is a 2/9 chance of me being a Mafia, so that is incredibly low.
...
You often overstates(or overly understate?) your incredibly low chance of being scum, of course you can be 100%sure that you are town(or mafia), but to me 2/9 is not that low, It feels like attempts to misdirect us.
You also sometime mentioned being established as town when you are actually being suspected, focused on and voted. I didn’t not see anyone publicly having town read on you.
I also read another game here(NMIII) in order to get some meta from you, I can find no one mentioning no lynch, And your thinking that scum will insistently pushes a town seems to be the case there but not here. I also have a feel that you are calmer there than here. But the game was sadly cut short and I didn't read it very thoroughly so mistake may be made here.
Well, you haven't posted since D2, maybe I should just hear your point of view on the Archetype lynch and TA night kill.
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Given Box hasn't said anything, I don't see that as compelling evidence to not be voting. Box seems to have sussed out a good strategy from D1- the period of time when he said very little, there was nothing suspicious in that time and all the votes that were for him disappeared. Similarly from this first part of D2! He gets from L- 1 to one vote without saying anything!
I'll be happier when we have some stuff said.
I'm not sure I see what you see in those chair posts, faust. I assume that was when Box had his previous alignments in his post signature.
I remember because I also saw that and did a double-take. Even if someone did "accidentally" place their alignment in their signature I wouldn't take it as a gospel truth. Of course chairs may have been referring to something completely different that I missed.
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...
Highschool.
Nuff' said.
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Now.
I'm not sure what to think of the Archetype lynch.
I had no suspicions against him, in all honesty (At least not any entirely legitimate ones)
Surprisingly, he ended up being lynched.. Which I was slightly taken aback by when I came to look at this post a few minutes ago.
On terms of the TW night kill.. I didn't know. None of us did.
In my opinion, a very inexperienced Mafia would continue to bash against someone to try and get them lynched, then kill them during the night. It just doesn't fit well with me.
At this point, I am trying to catch up and read over what's going on.
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Given Box hasn't said anything, I don't see that as compelling evidence to not be voting. Box seems to have sussed out a good strategy from D1- the period of time when he said very little, there was nothing suspicious in that time and all the votes that were for him disappeared. Similarly from this first part of D2! He gets from L- 1 to one vote without saying anything!
I'll be happier when we have some stuff said.
I'm not sure I see what you see in those chair posts, faust. I assume that was when Box had his previous alignments in his post signature.
I remember because I also saw that and did a double-take. Even if someone did "accidentally" place their alignment in their signature I wouldn't take it as a gospel truth. Of course chairs may have been referring to something completely different that I missed.
It's an example where chairs seems townie - why would he do that as scum? If he thinks there was a townslip of Box, why would he want to point that out to us? He clearly wasn't trying to mislead us, as he took it back immediately in the next post. Just doesn't seem like a scum thing to do. Of course, the whole thing tells nothing regarding Box's alignment.
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Something I didn't consider until now: There's a fairly high chance that town has a protective role (Doctor or Jailkeeper). So it makes sense that the mafia wouldn't target chairs, who seemed townie and helpful during D1, and is a vet - he is just really likely to be targeted. This makes the whole point that chairs' surviving is scummy less valid.
That said, what Box posted really doesn't help to lower suspicions on him. And this:
On terms of the TW night kill.. I didn't know. None of us did.
just reads scummy to me. I mean, "None of us did." is false for one - two of us DID know he would die. And why would you need to put emphasis on that - of course town players don't know the night kill before they are announced.
Finally, Box already claimed vanilla townie - a lynch here at least doesn't hurt us much.
So, I'll Vote: BoxOfDOG. With all the unvoting, I don't think that's L-1 again. But you might wanna check before you place another vote.
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Vote Count 2.2
jon17killer (1): Cuttlebone
BoxOfDOG (2): Jdaki, faust
Not Voting (3): BoxOfDOG, Gveoniz, chairs, jon117killer
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Day 2 ends September 16th, 11:00 PM.
-
Something I didn't consider until now: There's a fairly high chance that town has a protective role (Doctor or Jailkeeper). So it makes sense that the mafia wouldn't target chairs, who seemed townie and helpful during D1, and is a vet - he is just really likely to be targeted. This makes the whole point that chairs' surviving is scummy less valid.
That said, what Box posted really doesn't help to lower suspicions on him. And this:
On terms of the TW night kill.. I didn't know. None of us did.
just reads scummy to me. I mean, "None of us did." is false for one - two of us DID know he would die. And why would you need to put emphasis on that - of course town players don't know the night kill before they are announced.
Finally, Box already claimed vanilla townie - a lynch here at least doesn't hurt us much.
So, I'll Vote: BoxOfDOG. With all the unvoting, I don't think that's L-1 again. But you might wanna check before you place another vote.
I don't think.. There was really that much emphasis?
It was just said. Recognizing that two people did, is pretty irrelevant, as is what I said in that small, itty bitty part of my post.
And a lynch would hurt quite a lot.. Say I turn up vanilla townie? Yet another gone, and another during the night. (Assuming the bullletproof doesn't exist, or they don't shoot 'em)
You're risking quite a lot by voting for me here, and I think you should probably examine the situation further.. Obviously at this point it is everyone's goal to prove they aren't scum, as it has been throughout the entire game. I know voting for me won't turn out well, and it can be the same for other people, that's why I haven't made any definitive decision thus far.
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I don't think.. There was really that much emphasis?
It was just said. Recognizing that two people did, is pretty irrelevant, as is what I said in that small, itty bitty part of my post.
And a lynch would hurt quite a lot.. Say I turn up vanilla townie? Yet another gone, and another during the night. (Assuming the bullletproof doesn't exist, or they don't shoot 'em)
You're risking quite a lot by voting for me here, and I think you should probably examine the situation further.. Obviously at this point it is everyone's goal to prove they aren't scum, as it has been throughout the entire game. I know voting for me won't turn out well, and it can be the same for other people, that's why I haven't made any definitive decision thus far.
Box, small slips of the tongue or quick lapses in the speech can be quite telling in this game, especially a forum based version since everything is recorded. And with the limited information that we have here, they can very much influence the direction of the conversation. Even without emphasis, small things can very much mark how the other players perceive you.
And this defense, that killing you would be a mistake because you're town, is a defense that you could say about pretty much anyone else in the game at the moment. Claiming that you're vanilla townie doesn't mean much, because any scum would do the same.
-
Finally, Box already claimed vanilla townie - a lynch here at least doesn't hurt us much.
Say I turn up vanilla townie?
Alright, this above just seems mega scummy plus yet another post with some dubious emphasis, and another "well obviously it's not me..." defense.
If I hadn't already voted for Box I'd be happy to be the L-1 or hammer even at this early stage.
-
While it's tempting to just go for the Box lynch, we should talk about the rest of us as well. I have taken time to reread this thread, and I'll do another scum read list. Additionally, I'll try to figure out for everyone who is most likely to be their partner, should they be scum.
BoxOfDOG - scum read, most likely partner: jon/Cuttlebone
There has been enough discussion on that already, I think. Everyone except Cuttlebone has already voted for him at some time, I believe, so that makes Cuttlebone a likely partner. There was also some Box/jon cross-defending D1, but now, jon is voting for him.
Cuttlebone - scum read, most likely partner: Box/Jdaki
Cuttlebone post very little, and when he posts, I don't think it's that helpful for town. He stated he has played before IRL, so I expect a little more from him. He hasn't been around when we needed to lynch. Promised to be more active in the middle of D1, but didn't keep up to this. Box is a likely partner as stated above, and Jdaki because there's a stunning lack of interaction between the two. Could be because they're both not posting as much, though.
Jdaki - slight scum read, most likely partner: Cuttlebone/jon
Hasn't posted much, offered to shift his vote to jon short before the deadline, but ultimately didn't do it. The post during thread-lock reads somewhat scummy to me. I'm having quite a hard time assigning partners to him, though, as none of his interactions really stand out.
jon117killer - null read, most likely partner: chairs/Box
Yeah, there's a lot of lurking, but his posts don't seem that scummy. The point he made on Box earlier is quite helpful. All in all, I'm getting townie vibes here, but the lurking still is a problem.
Gveoniz - slight town read, most likely partner: chairs
I mentioned earlier that asking whether it was okay to hammer is a little scummy. But seeing as it was his first hammer, I can relate. And he might just not have voted at all, leaving us failing to lynch. He's also one of the more active players around here. TA also pinned him as townie, which means something.
chairs - town read, most likely partner: jon/Gveoniz
As I mentioned above, his D1 reads really townie, and there's good enough explanation as to why he wasn't killed tonight.
-
Now that I'm done with that, Cuttlebone, do you think Box is scum?
-
A very good point from faust about chairs survival during the night. Not totally convinced about the whole "town slip" thing, but fine. Interesting points in your scum reads post too.
I will post my current suspicions tomorrow hopefully- waiting to read some more posts from others.
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BoxOfDOG - scum read, most likely partner: jon/Cuttlebone
There has been enough discussion on that already, I think. Everyone except Cuttlebone has already voted for him at some time, I believe, so that makes Cuttlebone a likely partner. There was also some Box/jon cross-defending D1, but now, jon is voting for him.
I actually never vote for Box in this game. The only time I would like to vote him would put him L-1 in the middle of D1.
-
I am attempting do a more detailed list again tomorrow.
For now a rough list would be like this(top: more scummy):
Jdaki
Cuttlebone
BoxOfDOG
jon117killer
chairs
faust
Jdaki's early post are mostly as he called them: "newbie questions", which would probably just because he is new to this game. But I feel that his post don't have enough real contents and quite sided with TA, who is killed N1.
faust is mixed for me, either I feel he is a obvious town or a great mafia who tricked us all. I think would I took the town approach for now, things may change though. I guess reading from a different angel can help.
-
*sigh*
I just.. Don't even really care at this point.
Go ahead and vote for me..
-
Also.
Vote: Jdaki
-
BoxofDog does seem like a mafia. He probably killed Twistedarcher during the night.
Vote: BoxofDog
jon, would you take a moment to explain why you think Box is scum? You appear fairly content to lurk, chiming in minimally when needed (you're not the only one in this game, mind you), and I want to know more about the man, the myth, the legend - jon117killer. To paraphrase a song... Tell me all your thoughts on Dog, why you really want to lynch him.
I have played Mafia with him in the past and when he is a mafia he does not like to have people accusing him. it may or may not be try to this game but there is a 50/50 chance.
*flail*
Yay triple-post..
Completely untrue.
The last time I played a game where I killed someone accusing me, was when I was 12.
It's a really unintelligent option, and is something someone would do out of desperation to remove attention from them.
Even if I were to do that, I would recognize that if anything, the tension on me would intensify..
-
Also.
Vote: Jdaki
Care to explain?
-
Also.
Vote: Jdaki
Care to explain?
I have a reason, but I don't care to explain to everyone, because apparently everything I say is scummy.
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Okay, here's my current list of suspicious people, with most shifty at the top.
Top:
BoxofDog: I'm not sure if I find the current "oh poor me" persona any more or less scummy but all the previous points still apply. Possible partners... well I guess maybe those who have not voted for him yet- Cuttlebone or Gveoniz apparently.
Middle:
jon117killer: Posted against Box, so if Box is my number one suspect, that would actually lower on jon being his partner. But the lurking and somewhat randomness counts against him.
Cuttlebone: also lurking though with a bit more useful contributions in my opinion.
Gveoniz: not been voting for Box, but some good posts, though I obviously don't agree with his list! Don't understand his point about me siding with TA. Nothing suspicious in my analysis of his posts.
Bottom:
chairs: faust offers good explanations and defence for chairs to explain his survival over night so drops down the list. Has been of good use to town and is the last vet.
faust: many posts and trying hard to help us all, nothing really suspicious except defence of chairs but I think that is genuine.
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BoxofDog: I'm not sure if I find the current "oh poor me" persona any more or less scummy but all the previous points still apply. Possible partners... well I guess ]
You do realize it's not even close to like that, and I'm just tired of crap EXACTLY like this?
If you're going to misinterpret what I say to that level, then I might as well leave.
-
I think Box might be town. I've been that frustrated townie before, and although I've since developed a bit thicker skin (Forum Mafia - where at least SOME of the people accusing you are probably Mafia when you're town), I can sympathize.
I think jon would be my next choice. The hard-lurking is understandable, but difficult to give us accurate reads with.
-
...
Cuttlebone - scum read, most likely partner: Box/Jdaki
Cuttlebone post very little, and when he posts, I don't think it's that helpful for town. He stated he has played before IRL, so I expect a little more from him. He hasn't been around when we needed to lynch. Promised to be more active in the middle of D1, but didn't keep up to this. Box is a likely partner as stated above, and Jdaki because there's a stunning lack of interaction between the two. Could be because they're both not posting as much, though.
...
Your reasoning behind your suspicions confuses me a bit, faust. While I haven't posted much, I am not sure how the content of my posts makes more suspicious than the other lurkers (Jdaki and Jon). I'd like to think that I've been generally pretty helpful in my posts by explaining my reasoning and thought processes. While they haven't been frequent, they have been pretty thorough, and during lynchings or near lynchings, I've put my 2 cents. I am not sure where much of these explanations comes from.
As for Box, I was pretty suspicious of him in the beginning of the game, due to his extremely flustered posts, (No offense meant, Box). However, even with all of the suspicion and direct accusations, he's been surprisingly consistent in his demeanor. I would have expected him to change his game a bit to try and throw suspicion, and he hasn't. So for now, I'm feeling that he's town.
And on the other end, my vote for Jon still stands, for the same reasons I mentioned in earlier posts.
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Well I'm writing something to make sure I've posted every 24 hours, something some others are not making. But I don't have anything new really to say as hardly anything of substance has come on since I was last on.
I will say to Box that of course this is a game and we only have the posts that you write to go on and our interpretation of them, like Cuttlebone has said previously. So when I say I think you're scum, that's my opinion based on what I'm reading in your posts and the attitude I see there. There's nothing personal, of course.
-
Schedule is going wrong, I will try to get something out later(not today, unfortunately).
And I shall reminds the rest of you that the soft deadline (as well as the real one) is approaching.
-
vote: jon
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Vote Count 2.3
jon117killer (2): Cuttlebone, chairs
BoxOfDOG (2): Jdaki, faust
Jdaki (1): BoxOfDOG
Not Voting (2):Gveoniz, jon117killer
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Day 2 ends September 16th, 11:00 PM.
-
Now I can finally express what I'm saying, without ten million people attacking on me for what I've said.
I'll go through a list of things:
Small things said -
I completely understand you don't have the same kind of information in Forum Mafia, like you do in real life Mafia. But it gets rather frustrating for someone to jump on/start a bandwagon on you because of something that wasn't intended to be nitpicked at.
When I play this game, I put in these small things that I agree with, and don't believe they should be dragged across the board and stoned to death. It's annoying, in my view.
Doing that is an easy way to get me frustrated.
Frustrations -
My frustrations is due to quite a lot of different things. Particularly other people's posts, votes, etc., against me.
Though you are supposed to act all cool, collected, and understanding when someone votes for you, it's hard to respect the view someone has when you know what they're saying is completely untrue.
It's just like having a religious argument (Please don't quote this part, it will cause something very unnecessary,) people will offend me on purpose because of what I believe, and say things that I know and believe to not be true.. Naturally, I'm going to get frustrated with them.
Be reasonable, and considerate of what other people think, no matter how hypocritical that may seem coming from me.
My Vote -
My vote on Jdaki is because of how his posts are phrased.
They seem suspicious to me, and his information manipulated by him to fit to his needs.
I'm not confident in what he says, and get the growing feeling he is more leaning towards the removal of someone, rather than winning the game.
Removing someone to win the game is something, but that's not always the best decision. Discussion can go a long way, before you simply vote for somebody. His vote on me looked unorganized, too early on, and vaguely based (I know you have little information to go off of, but you should probably collect more, if that's what you need.)
If you have questions, just ask.
-
vote: jon
What changed your mind?
-
I also have a feel that Box's latest post is rather townie. I mean, I could see it as scum trying out a new tone, but that would come really late now, after it has been stated several times that his consistence makes him somewhat less scummy, so why would scum do that now?
If I move Box donw on my scum list, Cuttlebone gets my next favorite lynch. His reaction to me calling him scummy was rather defensive, even though nobody even voted for him yet. Has a scum feel for me.
So Vote: Cuttlebone. I could also support a Jdaki lynch, and will change my vote before our soft deadline if it helps.
-
Well when I signed for the game, I kind of resigned myself to the fact that I was going to be accused at least once. I don't think we are playing right if we're not accusing people when we feel they are giving off suspicious noises.
And now it's happening it makes it a bit easier for me to empathise with Box and some of his feelings.
I'm not concerned with dissecting his points against me, if he genuinely is town and that's how he feels then so be it. I don't think I am experienced with the game enough to go with much beyond half simple logic and half gut feel and so expect others to do the same. (bar the vet(s)).
I think that I've had plenty of real reasons to suspect Box which I have said previously. I just don't like the very strong defensive and aggrieved reactions he has. Now Box does post some reasons as to why he has come across as frustrated, and I can kind of see where he's coming from. I'm not entirely sold, the fact I'm suspicious of him already, means I will think maybe it's a ploy, to get attention where mafia probably don't want it. Maybe trying to get sympathy etc.
But, and this is important, I think what I'm taking home from the post and this reply, is I mustn't let my suspicions tunnel me onto one guy. Because even if my feelings and reasonings are correct, there would still be another scum out there who we also need to find.
Now, I'm afraid that I still do think Box is scum and I just don't agree with his analysis of my votes for him and attempts to dismiss them. But I'm going to try and focus on other people's posts in more detail now, in order to try and find the other mafia. Of course, if I'm wrong, then I'm looking for two scum from the other posts, which should be easier still.
So to stop the wall of text with some attempts to analyse other people without thinking about Box (too much- if I assume he is mafia, then that comes into my analysis of interactions:
faust: Still happy with his posts, and attempts to get everyone involved and posting is a major positive point for me
chairs: has not posted a lot recently, will be interesting to see his reasoning in the jon vote. Our last vet, his survival was looked at as a possible negative, but I agree with the posts giving reasons for this.
cuttlebone: perhaps defensive in his response to faust, but then it is valid to try to point out inaccuracies in others reasoning. I think it was perhaps a strange focus from faust on supposed lack of activity at certain times, when the inactivity seemed relatively random. Interesting point on his belief that Box's consistency was townie, whilst faust feels Box's change up is townie.
Gveoniz: has not posted much recently, apparently busy. His earlier posts have mostly matched up with my thinking, and he has asked some probing questions. However, seems happy to hold vote, so we lack a lot of voting information from him. Not sure if this is suspicious or not.
jon117killer: has said much less than anyone else. At the very least this gives us very little information on him. Voting has been fairly random. too, though did vote and argue against Box. So this is a positive point for me. But if I'm wrong about Box, then jon's inaction is really hurting us and pretty smart scum play to wait for us to hunt others.
-
Well when I signed for the game, I kind of resigned myself to the fact that I was going to be accused at least once. I don't think we are playing right if we're not accusing people when we feel they are giving off suspicious noises.
And now it's happening it makes it a bit easier for me to empathise with Box and some of his feelings.
I'm not concerned with dissecting his points against me, if he genuinely is town and that's how he feels then so be it. I don't think I am experienced with the game enough to go with much beyond half simple logic and half gut feel and so expect others to do the same. (bar the vet(s)).
I think that I've had plenty of real reasons to suspect Box which I have said previously. I just don't like the very strong defensive and aggrieved reactions he has.
Now Box does post some reasons as to why he has come across as frustrated, and I can kind of see where he's coming from. I'm not entirely sold, the fact I'm suspicious of him already, means I will think maybe it's a ploy, to get attention where mafia probably don't want it. Maybe trying to get sympathy etc.
But, and this is important, I think what I'm taking home from the post and this reply, is I mustn't let my suspicions tunnel me onto one guy. Because even if my feelings and reasonings are correct, there would still be another scum out there who we also need to find.
Now, I'm afraid that I still do think Box is scum and I just don't agree with his analysis of my votes for him and attempts to dismiss them. But I'm going to try and focus on other people's posts in more detail now, in order to try and find the other mafia. Of course, if I'm wrong, then I'm looking for two scum from the other posts, which should be easier still.
I'm addressing everything said here in this quote, each important part individualized and separated..
*Ahem*
This is a post with reasoning I can respect.
-
cuttlebone: perhaps defensive in his response to faust, but then it is valid to try to point out inaccuracies in others reasoning. I think it was perhaps a strange focus from faust on supposed lack of activity at certain times, when the inactivity seemed relatively random. Interesting point on his belief that Box's consistency was townie, whilst faust feels Box's change up is townie.
Just to make this clear, part of why I think Box's change is townie is because it came after Cuttlebone mentioning consistency.
-
The people in the list are pretty close together, unfortunately I still can have any definite read. I was hoping for more information in D2 but sadly no.
After some reading the list changed quite radically.
As always scummy on top:
(Moderately higher)jon177killer: definitely not enough contribution D1, alright in early D2 but seems to have been gone for a while again. The only thing is that we want to lynch more definite scum rather than possible unhelpful town, so I hesitate to move here.
(Slightly higher) Chiars: Most posts seems townie. He sometimes post something without an explanation until asked for, I feel that is slightly scummy. Why would town try to hide information that may help finding scum?
(Middle)Cuttlebone: Few posts, when he do post they are reasonable, I think.
(Middle)Box: Early posts are bad, he have improved and I agree that he is probably frustrated town. But the possibility that those mistake is scum mistakes still hold.
(Middle)Jdaki: the reason that he was at the top is because of some not very accurate speculations, and he was not really far away from any others either, he just happened to be a slightly scummier to me. After some rereading he looks a lots better now. The are not enough contribution early on in the game but have been quite reasonable after that.
(Low)Faust: Usually have helpful posts, best among the new people In fact he don't feel like a newbie.
I think I will need more time for a more detailed thorough investigation.
-
Suspicion list:
Naturally, all of these reads are fluid, and the suspicion gaps between the tiers are much closer than the vocabulary may indicate, due to the sparse information we are dealing with at the moment.
High
Jon117Killer: Most suspicious for reasons previously mentioned, but as Gveo said earlier at this point in the game we want to try and lynch definite scum rather than unhelpful town. Also recent posts also have made me wary of having tunnel vision on a player we haven't heard much from. Unless someone turns out to be really suspicious after this, my vote would be (is) for him.
faust: Thought he was town until the middle of D2. His posts are pretty thorough on a more regular basis though, his suspicion list had some strange or unreasonable points for several players, including myself (Box, Jon, Gveo).
Medium
Chairs: Really wasn't expecting him to make it through the night, and has been a bit more candid with his votes in D2. However he's been really helpful pretty consistantly throughout.
Jdaki: His inactivity in D1 leads to natural suspicion, but the frequency of his recent posts has taken the edge off a bit. Content seems reasonable, but I still don't have enough information to place him on a lower category.
Low (ish)
BoxofDog: His consistency, for however flustered and defensive it may have been has, for now, made me less suspicious of him. At the very least, his posts have been pretty colorful in terms of personality, so we have quite a lot of information on him.
Gveoniz: Reasonable posts throughout, accompanied by an unsubstantiated low suspicion, though I have found that I've been letting him fly under my radar for most of the game.
-
Gveoniz, jon, you need to vote for someone pretty soon, our soft deadline is only one day away...
-
What are we going to do if undecided by tomorrow?
Are we saying we should force a lynch by the deadline or simply everyone should have cast a vote by then?
-
What are we going to do if undecided by tomorrow?
Are we saying we should force a lynch by the deadline or simply everyone should have cast a vote by then?
I'd say we should look to put someone at L-1 until then, but not hammer. That way, there's time for a claim.
-
I am not yet sure who to vote for.
Boxofdog does seam like a town, so i am probaby not vote for him.
-
I figure since people are making all these suspicion posts, I'll update my own. (Yay, peer pressure.)
Suspicious:
Jdaki -
I've already stated my case about Jdaki, go ahead and scroll upwards if you want to read it.
jon -
His lurking concerns me as well. His posts are incredibly short, and give me very, very little information. Unless Jon is somehow able to defend himself sufficiently, he's staying up here.
Mid Zone/Vague:
Cuttlebone -
I dunno.. Everything about him seems very vague, and it's hard to get a read.
He definitely doesn't have my vote, but he still confuses me in a bizarre way.
Faust -
Faust's post to me seem up and down. Supportive and on the offensive.
There is an inconsistency in decisions, though that might be because of the ever changing circumstances. Whatever the case, I don't have much to say about him.
Town Read:
Gveoniz -
Gveoniz has been, by far, the most reasonable and beneficial to this game. His posts are timed apart correctly, and doesn't give off the feeling of rushing to his own defense (As I was, early game.)
Because of how concise and understandable what he says is, it shows more truthfulness than anything else.
chairs -
He's either a really, really amazing Scum, or an effective mediator Townie.
I'm guessing the latter.
-
Could we please get a vote count?
-
Vote Count 2.4
jon117killer (2): Cuttlebone, chairs
BoxOfDOG (1): Jdaki,
Jdaki (1): BoxOfDOG
Cuttlebone (1): faust
Not Voting (2):Gveoniz, jon117killer
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Day 2 ends September 16th, 11:00 PM.
-
I am not yet sure who to vote for.
Boxofdog does seam like a town, so i am probaby not vote for him.
Man, you just need to give us more than that. You're not helping at all.
Vote: jon. Still not my top scum read, but maybe he now has some incentive to be more active. Plus, the deadline's approaching, so I'll support this wagon.
-
This is L-1, so no more votes for jon!
-
Would any of those not voting for jon be willing to hammer? If this is the case, please say so, but do not yet vote. jon should probably claim in this case if he is a PR.
-
If Jon does not post in 24 hours and others agree, I will switch my vote. The mega lurking is so actively unhelpful to us.
-
*cough*
Quickhammer.
/vote jon117killer
(yey, first ever hammering.)
-
*cough*
Quickhammer.
/vote jon117killer
(yey, first ever hammering.)
(http://media.exophase.net/images/2009/10/banhammer.jpg)
-
THREAD LOCKED!
Sudgy will post flavor and flip.
-
Final Vote Count
jon117killer (4): Cuttlebone, chairs, faust, BoxOfDOG
BoxOfDOG (1): Jdaki
Not Voting (2): Gveoniz, jon117killer
With 7 alive, it took 4 to lynch.
As they were wondering what to do, they saw jon117killer, silently observing everything, barely saying a word. They realized that he just had to be the mafia. Without even being able to say anything, they hung him. They searched him, and, found something that showed that his listening was just him doing his job.
jon117killer, the Town Cop, has been lynched.
Please submit night actions by September 15, 11:00 PM Forum Time.
Night 2 Start
THREAD STILL LOCKED
-
Somehow, after all that happened, everybody slept soundly. One person decided to make sure he wouldn't be killed and stayed awake through the whole night. Gveoniz was watching his door, and waiting...
Suddenly, he sees someone come in, with a gun pointed towards Gveoniz. "It's you!"
Then he got shot.
Gveoniz, the Vanilla Townie, has been killed.
DAY 3 START
THREAD UNLOCKED
Vote Count 3.0
Not Voting (5): faust, Jdaki, Cuttlebone, BoxOfDOG, chairs
With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.
Day 3 ends September 28th, 12:00 AM.
-
Vote: BoxOfDOG
Man, we should have lynched you a long time ago.
-
Damned right.
Vote BoxofDog
L-1
-
hell, let's do it. DERPHAMMER GO!
vote: boxofdog
-
Excessive force? Perhaps.
Vote: BoxOfDog
-
Woah, that went fast. Box, if you're town, sorry, but you didn't leave me a choice.
-
Yeah, wow. Also I think all four of us who voted are viewing the thread now and waiting for a result.
-
THREAD LOCKED
-
Final Vote Count
BoxOfDOG (3): Jdaki, fuast, chairs
Not Voting (2): BoxOfDOG, Cuttlebone
With 5 alive, it took 3 to lynch.
As soon as they woke up, they hung BoxOfDOG while he was still asleep. "Yay, we lynched the mafia!" chairs said.
BoxOfDOG, the Vanilla Townie, has been lynched.
"Wait, where is the mafia?" chairs asked. faust was wondering too. They turned around to see Jdaki and Cuttlebone, guns aimed, and they shot.
Jdaki and Cuttlebone have won flawlessly!
THREAD UNLOCKED
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QTs:
Spectator: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/mSFGx7fXxxsgZ
Mafia: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/4UgPnKAh5aye
Mod: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/ekeqbmVUezy
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Speccy was so wrong.
-
Full setup:
Column 2 of the Matrix, so Goon/Cop/VT
1. Gveoniz (VT)
2. faust (VT)
3. jon117killer (Cop)
4. Jdaki (Goon)
5. Cuttlebone (Goon)
6. BoxOfDOG (VT)
7. TwistedArcher (VT)
8. chairs (VT)
9. Archetype (VT)
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Speccy was so wrong.
Yeah...oops.
Well played cuttlebone and jdaki!!!
-
I'm not sure who to give MVP to, so I'll take ideas.
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Nice thinking by Cuttlebone to frame chairs. You fooled the speccy! Well played.
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I'm not sure who to give MVP to, so I'll take ideas.
I'd say Cuttlebone personally.
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High-five, Jadki, it was a pleasure working with ya!
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Hah. Really? Wow!
Man. That... man!
Speechless over here. Newbie mafia fools the entire f.DS population. Very nicely done!
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Cuttlebone - scum read, most likely partner: Box/Jdaki
*sigh* Look there! Look there!
Box, your quickhammer killed us :( Well, and maybe me voting for you D3, but... with this quickhammer, I couldn't think of anyone else to lynch.
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Cuttlebone - scum read, most likely partner: Box/Jdaki
*sigh* Look there! Look there!
Box, your quickhammer killed us :( Well, and maybe me voting for you D3, but... with this quickhammer, I couldn't think of anyone else to lynch.
To be fair, different town quick hammered him on d3. None of us played all that well :(
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I did find it funny that scum in their QT were talking about how to quickhammer, and town did it for them.
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Cuttlebone - scum read, most likely partner: Box/Jdaki
*sigh* Look there! Look there!
Box, your quickhammer killed us :( Well, and maybe me voting for you D3, but... with this quickhammer, I couldn't think of anyone else to lynch.
Ya had me worried there for quite a while faust, well done.
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Thanks for the game everyone. Nice working with you Cuttlebone. Thanks to sudgy, mail-mi and other mods for hosting.
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I have no regrets.
I blame you all.
I was a townie the whole time.
You all lose.
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I have no regrets.
I blame you all.
I was a townie the whole time.
You all lose.
As do you...
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I have no regrets.
I blame you all.
I was a townie the whole time.
You all lose.
As do you...
Good point ;-;
All jokes (posed as a serious comment) aside, I think it was a bit of a disappointing game.. Manipulation frustrates me at most times, but I'm feeling up for another mafia game, hoping it won't end up like a frustration-train wreck.
I'll try to have a better attitude in the future.
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I will say, this was not like a normal mafia game. I think this was mainly due to mostly everybody lurking, and that two vets were killed right away.
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it may not be your fault that you were being accused and stuff, however, you SHOULD regret that hammer. quickhammers as town are very very bad, and this is a perfect example of why. If you hadn't hammered, jon117killer gets back online and claims, doesn't get lynched, and not only is there a chance for scum to be lynched that day, but you don't get auto-lynched the next day. Only scenario I can imagine town quickhammering is if they KNOW the player they are hammering is scum, via a cop result or something. and even then, it's usually bad.
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And I've realized this now.. Gah.
What was a really problem for me was that I always read my posts out loud. When I do that, it doesn't sound suspicious at all.
But when I post it, it's like someone is reading it with a very low, silky, evil voice..
"I'm going to go into your bed during the night, and stab you in the neck repeatedly..."
I can at least learn from mistakes; this game was a certain one.
One more thing being that in NMIII, I didn't even have time to learn much. People got too butt hurt, and it turned out badly for everyone. In fact, even throughout all that butt hurt, I was more calm there than I was here.
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I have no regrets.
I blame you all.
I was a townie the whole time.
You all lose.
As do you...
Good point ;-;
All jokes (posed as a serious comment) aside, I think it was a bit of a disappointing game.. Manipulation frustrates me at most times, but I'm feeling up for another mafia game, hoping it won't end up like a frustration-train wreck.
I'll try to have a better attitude in the future.
Yeah, it's frustrating, but ultimately this is a game of
Manipulation and lying at its core.
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I have no regrets.
I blame you all.
I was a townie the whole time.
You all lose.
As do you...
Good point ;-;
All jokes (posed as a serious comment) aside, I think it was a bit of a disappointing game.. Manipulation frustrates me at most times, but I'm feeling up for another mafia game, hoping it won't end up like a frustration-train wreck.
I'll try to have a better attitude in the future.
Yeah, it's frustrating, but ultimately this is a game of
Manipulation and lying at its core.
It is! and I understand that.
I guess I'll have to rephrase..
I don't mind the manipulation and lying that goes on in Mafia, it is the kind of manipulation that forms my own words into something entirely different.
Does that make sense..? xD
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Congratulations mafia! You fooled everyone.. well done!
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Yeah, I get what you mean. But that's all that we have to go on!
I think, ironically, the people who pushed hardest for you were town, not mafia. So we weren't being manipulative...just wrong!!
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Heh, except for me. I was doing a bit of manipulating. But man, Box, you were just begging to be made suspicious. I did try not to lie though... Oh also, we didn't lose.
I must say I didn't really understand some of the claims of "lurking". I mean I tried (and succeeded I think) to post every day, yet this was not enough for some people. I mean posting three times in a row surely doesn't really count as three posts does it?
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Well played Mafia.
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I must say I didn't really understand some of the claims of "lurking". I mean I tried (and succeeded I think) to post every day, yet this was not enough for some people. I mean posting three times in a row surely doesn't really count as three posts does it?
That is the bare minimum required. Most people post more, and the more people post, the better for town that it is. A "normal" D1 usually has twice as many pages as this whole game does.
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The high amount of lurking from town (myself included) really helped Mafia. if there's anything to take away from this,that's probably the best lesson.
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Uhh.. Just to point out, I didn't lurk at all.
Unless not even going on the forums is lurking, I wasn't.
I posted every time I got on here.
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Uhh.. Just to point out, I didn't lurk at all.
Unless not even going on the forums is lurking, I wasn't.
I posted every time I got on here.
Good habit to have, Box.
I didn't post super frequently mostly because I would view the pages at work, but didn't really have any dedicated time to read and process the latest posts and post something meaningful, but at the same time being careful. It's too easy to make careless mistakes or slips of the tongue for everyone to see and review. Balance of activity and thoughtfulness. To few posts, even if they were really good posts, as well as saying things just for the sake of saying them, without thinking them through can make you look suspicious.
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I guess I consider not even being on the site part of "lurking". Our day wasn't active, and it hurt.
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Uhh.. Just to point out, I didn't lurk at all.
Unless not even going on the forums is lurking, I wasn't.
I posted every time I got on here.
I didn't mean every single person playing, I was just meaning in general. Some people didn't lurk as much as others.
...But, you did not post as much as most people do. But that's okay, too, as long as you post some.
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Huh.
Well played scum! I thought the team was Box/Chairs, but man you had me fooled!
Thanks for running it sudgy and mail-mi!
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Final Post count (this includes pre-game and post-game)
gveo - 35
archetype - 17
box - 45
jon - 18
faust - 47
chairs - 44
cuttlebone - 18
jdaki - 33
twisted - 60
This is what we mean by lurking... that the player that was killed Night1 had more posts Day1 than everyone else who lived onto the next days. In some cases it was ~15 more, but in others it was excessively more...
Of course his high post count (or rather his activity and leading of town) was likely a huge reason for his death. Nor am I suggesting that everyone needs to be posting to the extent that he did, but rather that for successive days this game seemed to stagnate and stall tremendously and that those moments greatly favored mafia over town.
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I'm not sure who to give MVP to, so I'll take ideas.
I'd say Cuttlebone personally.
this was the only post in regard to an MVP. Mod agrees?
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I'm not sure who to give MVP to, so I'll take ideas.
I'd say Cuttlebone personally.
this was the only post in regard to an MVP. Mod agrees?
Hm, I'm still not sure. I don't really remember the game too much now anyways... I'll put it up for a vote:
Who should get MVP?
Jdaki (0)
Cuttlebone (1): Voltaire