Dominion Strategy Forum

Dominion => Dominion General Discussion => Topic started by: Minotaur on February 01, 2015, 03:43:56 pm

Title: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Minotaur on February 01, 2015, 03:43:56 pm
This thread is not a joke thread.  I love Scout jokes.  I really do.  A little too much, actually.  But this thread is about quirky combos that make one of the worst cards in the game stand out as doing something in a sort of above average kind of way.  Since this is a tall task, I might overestimate a combo, but I'm trying the best I can here.


Warehouse/Tunnels/Scout

The "Scout + Intrigue" combos have been sort of meh in my experience.  This combo actually makes Scout medium-strong in context.  Open with Warehouse and Tunnels.  Pick up a Scout or three eventually, but have more Warehouses and Tunnels than anything else.  You'll have Provinces to draw pretty early, too.  Gain more Golds, and have enough money in hand to buy Provinces on turns where you gain Golds.  Yay.

If you can get a Crossroads or two in the mix too, then it can get crazy (if not totally consistent).  Ideally, you'll be trashing your Copper early as well.


Possession/Scout

I read about this in another thread once.  Not exactly a combo, but Scout is one of the best cards to have in your hand when you want your *next* turn to be a lot better than *this* turn.  That's a backhanded compliment to be sure, but in a Possession game, this has been reported to be a legitimate strategy.  Slog through the Duchies and alt VP.  Maybe snag a Possession for yourself too - I'm not sure or it depends on the board.

Admittedly, this isn't as good as Rats/Bishop or Militia when it comes to cards your enemies won't want to play goes, but oh well.  You have to take what the board gives you.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: werothegreat on February 01, 2015, 03:47:50 pm
Is Scout/Crossroads not a thing?
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: jsh357 on February 01, 2015, 03:49:31 pm
Quote from: werothegreat on February 01, 2015, 03:47:50 pm
Is Scout/Crossroads not a thing?

It isn't.  You're usually better off getting another Crossroads.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: werothegreat on February 01, 2015, 04:11:58 pm
Scout seems to be more of a smoothing supplement to other strategies, rather than something that actively combos with another card.  Obviously, Cartographer is better, but Scout is a little cheaper.  For example, if you're using Ironworks to get lots of Actions for Vineyard, grabbing a Scout will both boost your points and smooth out your draw by pulling in your Vineyards.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Minotaur on February 01, 2015, 04:13:32 pm
In my experience, almost nothing really combos with Scout.  Hoping to get Crossroads and Scout in the same hand while having two or more Victory cards in the next 4 is pretty iffy.

If you're running a really heavy draw-and-sift engine, then you can skew the rest of your deck in favor of Victory cards, maybe.  And then Scout is more likely to draw them for more Cellar fodder.  But I don't know how often this pays off.  Even then, it's probably just one Scout and a lot of engine.

I did get to play Warehouse/Tunnels/Scout in a bot game, and that was fun and unique.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Minotaur on February 01, 2015, 04:17:07 pm
Quote from: werothegreat on February 01, 2015, 04:11:58 pm
Scout seems to be more of a smoothing supplement to other strategies, rather than something that actively combos with another card.  Obviously, Cartographer is better, but Scout is a little cheaper.  For example, if you're using Ironworks to get lots of Actions for Vineyard, grabbing a Scout will both boost your points and smooth out your draw by pulling in your Vineyards.

I get the feeling that if you're super-pro, then you might buy one at just the right time on 20% of the boards, but the rest of us are better off ignoring it 95% of the time.  And even then, you risk getting burned with the zero-card draw.

Cartographer is a god.  The nice thing about the Warehouse/Tunnels combo, though, is that Scout does something that Cartographer can't do, for once.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Minotaur on February 01, 2015, 04:21:31 pm
Oh wow, I forgot about Mystic.

Mystic/Scout might be the only two-card Scout combo that is sort of ok.  Draw the green, and pick exactly what card you actually draw.  If you have one Scout and two Mystics in hand, all the better.  What's nice about Scout/Mystic is that unlike Cartographer/Mystic, there's no price point conflict.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Jimmmmm on February 01, 2015, 04:22:40 pm
Quote from: Minotaur on February 01, 2015, 04:21:31 pm
Oh wow, I forgot about Mystic.

Mystic/Scout might be the only two-card Scout combo that is sort of ok.  Draw the green, and pick exactly what card you actually draw.  If you have one Scout and two Mystics in hand, all the better.  What's nice about Scout/Mystic is that unlike Cartographer/Mystic, there's no price point conflict.

Wishing Well as well.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: werothegreat on February 01, 2015, 04:23:21 pm
Quote from: Jimmmmm on February 01, 2015, 04:22:40 pm
Quote from: Minotaur on February 01, 2015, 04:21:31 pm
Oh wow, I forgot about Mystic.

Mystic/Scout might be the only two-card Scout combo that is sort of ok.  Draw the green, and pick exactly what card you actually draw.  If you have one Scout and two Mystics in hand, all the better.  What's nice about Scout/Mystic is that unlike Cartographer/Mystic, there's no price point conflict.

Wishing Well as well.

It's better with Mystic.  Still needs +Buy, though.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: heron on February 01, 2015, 04:26:08 pm
I'm pretty sure warehouse/tunnel/scout is worse than warehouse/tunnel.

Scout + Wishing well is like, worse to have in hand than wishing well + wishing well usually. Same for mystic, unless you have like 1 scout and a bunch of mystics.

Scout/crossroads doesn't work, scout/hybrid victory doesn't work.

The only semi-reasonable reason to buy scout that I can think of is in some sort of apothecary deck which is getting clogged up by victory cards.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: pacovf on February 01, 2015, 04:28:58 pm
Quote from: heron on February 01, 2015, 04:26:08 pm
I'm pretty sure warehouse/tunnel/scout is worse than warehouse/tunnel.

Scout + Wishing well is like, worse to have in hand than wishing well + wishing well usually. Same for mystic, unless you have like 1 scout and a bunch of mystics.

Scout/crossroads doesn't work, scout/hybrid victory doesn't work.

The only semi-reasonable reason to buy scout that I can think of is in some sort of apothecary deck which is getting clogged up by victory cards.

Rabble. Although that is more of a counter than a combo...
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: werothegreat on February 01, 2015, 04:31:39 pm
Quote from: pacovf on February 01, 2015, 04:28:58 pm
Quote from: heron on February 01, 2015, 04:26:08 pm
I'm pretty sure warehouse/tunnel/scout is worse than warehouse/tunnel.

Scout + Wishing well is like, worse to have in hand than wishing well + wishing well usually. Same for mystic, unless you have like 1 scout and a bunch of mystics.

Scout/crossroads doesn't work, scout/hybrid victory doesn't work.

The only semi-reasonable reason to buy scout that I can think of is in some sort of apothecary deck which is getting clogged up by victory cards.

Rabble. Although that is more of a counter than a combo...

By the way, pacovf - I see you live in Spain.  Has Guilds been translated into Spanish yet?
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Minotaur on February 01, 2015, 04:36:31 pm
Quote from: pacovf on February 01, 2015, 04:28:58 pm
Quote from: heron on February 01, 2015, 04:26:08 pm
I'm pretty sure warehouse/tunnel/scout is worse than warehouse/tunnel.

Scout + Wishing well is like, worse to have in hand than wishing well + wishing well usually. Same for mystic, unless you have like 1 scout and a bunch of mystics.

Scout/crossroads doesn't work, scout/hybrid victory doesn't work.

The only semi-reasonable reason to buy scout that I can think of is in some sort of apothecary deck which is getting clogged up by victory cards.

Rabble. Although that is more of a counter than a combo...

It's like Possession, in that it's an attack that makes you consider buying a Scout.  The other benefit of Scout is that Rabble might discard a Scout instead of what you really wanted to draw.

Of course, Scout doesn't really hard-counter either of these.  Rabble essentially leaves you with a four-card hand when "countered" in this way.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Awaclus on February 01, 2015, 04:37:31 pm
Quote from: Jimmmmm on February 01, 2015, 04:22:40 pm
Quote from: Minotaur on February 01, 2015, 04:21:31 pm
Oh wow, I forgot about Mystic.

Mystic/Scout might be the only two-card Scout combo that is sort of ok.  Draw the green, and pick exactly what card you actually draw.  If you have one Scout and two Mystics in hand, all the better.  What's nice about Scout/Mystic is that unlike Cartographer/Mystic, there's no price point conflict.

Wishing Well as well.

And Band of Misfits as Well as well!
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: liopoil on February 01, 2015, 04:41:00 pm
uh, scrying pool.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Minotaur on February 01, 2015, 04:43:06 pm
Quote from: heron on February 01, 2015, 04:26:08 pm
I'm pretty sure warehouse/tunnel/scout is worse than warehouse/tunnel.

Scout + Wishing well is like, worse to have in hand than wishing well + wishing well usually. Same for mystic, unless you have like 1 scout and a bunch of mystics.

Scout/crossroads doesn't work, scout/hybrid victory doesn't work.

The only semi-reasonable reason to buy scout that I can think of is in some sort of apothecary deck which is getting clogged up by victory cards.

Scout has a better chance if you reshuffle by playing Warehouse right before you play it.  Lots of Warehousing can stack the deck with green, and on a big turn, Scout has a decent chance of making your next turn less awful.  This can maybe justify one Scout if you expect to draw/sift your whole deck in a turn.

With Scout/Mystic, you would never buy Scout with a $5 hand.  One Scout and a few Mystics might be good, but I haven't tried it yet.  A lot of other $3-$4 cards might take priority, though.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Minotaur on February 01, 2015, 04:44:04 pm
Quote from: Awaclus on February 01, 2015, 04:37:31 pm
Quote from: Jimmmmm on February 01, 2015, 04:22:40 pm
Quote from: Minotaur on February 01, 2015, 04:21:31 pm
Oh wow, I forgot about Mystic.

Mystic/Scout might be the only two-card Scout combo that is sort of ok.  Draw the green, and pick exactly what card you actually draw.  If you have one Scout and two Mystics in hand, all the better.  What's nice about Scout/Mystic is that unlike Cartographer/Mystic, there's no price point conflict.

Wishing Well as well.

And Band of Misfits as Well as well!

Wait what?  Is there a special reason to have your Misfits imitate Scout?
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Minotaur on February 01, 2015, 04:45:28 pm
Quote from: liopoil on February 01, 2015, 04:41:00 pm
uh, scrying pool.

Scrying Pool is just wicked good.  I'd still rather have Cartographer than Scout, but if you get stuck with $4, then ok.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: liopoil on February 01, 2015, 04:53:18 pm
Quote from: Minotaur on February 01, 2015, 04:45:28 pm
Quote from: liopoil on February 01, 2015, 04:41:00 pm
uh, scrying pool.

Scrying Pool is just wicked good.  I'd still rather have Cartographer than Scout, but if you get stuck with $4, then ok.
or just play kingdoms without cartographer... they can't all be the best combo with scrying pool ever.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Awaclus on February 01, 2015, 05:08:32 pm
Quote from: Minotaur on February 01, 2015, 04:44:04 pm
Quote from: Awaclus on February 01, 2015, 04:37:31 pm
Quote from: Jimmmmm on February 01, 2015, 04:22:40 pm
Quote from: Minotaur on February 01, 2015, 04:21:31 pm
Oh wow, I forgot about Mystic.

Mystic/Scout might be the only two-card Scout combo that is sort of ok.  Draw the green, and pick exactly what card you actually draw.  If you have one Scout and two Mystics in hand, all the better.  What's nice about Scout/Mystic is that unlike Cartographer/Mystic, there's no price point conflict.

Wishing Well as well.

And Band of Misfits as Well as well!

Wait what?  Is there a special reason to have your Misfits imitate Scout?

No, your Misfits is imitating Wishing Well. The joke is funny because there's "as well" twice.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Minotaur on February 01, 2015, 05:12:06 pm
Quote from: Awaclus on February 01, 2015, 05:08:32 pm
Quote from: Minotaur on February 01, 2015, 04:44:04 pm
Quote from: Awaclus on February 01, 2015, 04:37:31 pm
Quote from: Jimmmmm on February 01, 2015, 04:22:40 pm
Quote from: Minotaur on February 01, 2015, 04:21:31 pm
Oh wow, I forgot about Mystic.

Mystic/Scout might be the only two-card Scout combo that is sort of ok.  Draw the green, and pick exactly what card you actually draw.  If you have one Scout and two Mystics in hand, all the better.  What's nice about Scout/Mystic is that unlike Cartographer/Mystic, there's no price point conflict.

Wishing Well as well.

And Band of Misfits as Well as well!

Wait what?  Is there a special reason to have your Misfits imitate Scout?

No, your Misfits is imitating Wishing Well. The joke is funny because there's "as well" twice.

Oh, see.  My brain's auto-filter just cut that right out of the sentence.  Carry on.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Minotaur on February 01, 2015, 07:39:22 pm
Quote from: liopoil on February 01, 2015, 04:41:00 pm
uh, scrying pool.

To be fair, Ruins/Cellar combos with Scrying Pool...
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: TheExpressicist on February 02, 2015, 09:10:21 am
Vineyard/Silk Road, Scout, Ironworks, Great Hall/Island.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Jack Rudd on February 02, 2015, 09:40:28 am
Prince of Scouts is vaguely useful.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Minotaur on February 02, 2015, 12:36:36 pm
Quote from: Jack Rudd on February 02, 2015, 09:40:28 am
Prince of Scouts is vaguely useful.

Unlike King's Court, yeah.  I can see that.  But I would probably pick something else...
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: werothegreat on February 02, 2015, 12:50:53 pm
Quote from: Minotaur on February 02, 2015, 12:36:36 pm
Quote from: Jack Rudd on February 02, 2015, 09:40:28 am
Prince of Scouts is vaguely useful.

Unlike King's Court, yeah.  I can see that.  But I would probably pick something else...

You may not have a choice.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: ThaddeusB on February 02, 2015, 12:54:52 pm
If by combo you just mean two cards that make each other better then a lot of things combo with scout - cards that care a lot about deck order ( ww, mystic, herald), all alt co, cards that want vp in hand.  If you mean things that make Scott worth buying, the list is pretty short. At least two of great hall/harem/nobles might be enough. A workshop variant you otherwise want on an alt vp board. Rebuild with no other + action cards and enough silver already bought. Wishing well  + alt vp ( primarily Duke to avoid.cost conflict).

On a weak board with no other +actions, I could definitely see Prince-scout doing something - that's an interesting idea.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Minotaur on February 02, 2015, 12:55:42 pm
Quote from: werothegreat on February 02, 2015, 12:50:53 pm
Quote from: Minotaur on February 02, 2015, 12:36:36 pm
Quote from: Jack Rudd on February 02, 2015, 09:40:28 am
Prince of Scouts is vaguely useful.

Unlike King's Court, yeah.  I can see that.  But I would probably pick something else...

You may not have a choice.

Because the entire board has only two Action cards in it...?
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: liopoil on February 02, 2015, 12:57:21 pm
Quote from: Minotaur on February 02, 2015, 12:55:42 pm
Quote from: werothegreat on February 02, 2015, 12:50:53 pm
Quote from: Minotaur on February 02, 2015, 12:36:36 pm
Quote from: Jack Rudd on February 02, 2015, 09:40:28 am
Prince of Scouts is vaguely useful.

Unlike King's Court, yeah.  I can see that.  But I would probably pick something else...

You may not have a choice.

Because the entire board has only two Action cards in it...?
Because you got a scout somehow (maybe swindler) and drew prince with scout and no other actions.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: LastFootnote on February 02, 2015, 01:01:04 pm
Quote from: heron on February 01, 2015, 04:26:08 pm
Scout + Wishing well is like, worse to have in hand than wishing well + wishing well usually. Same for mystic, unless you have like 1 scout and a bunch of mystics.

Uh, yeah. You get one or two Scouts, and as many Mystics as you can. One Scout and four Mystics is way better than 5 Mystics.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Minotaur on February 02, 2015, 01:02:14 pm
Quote from: liopoil on February 02, 2015, 12:57:21 pm
Quote from: Minotaur on February 02, 2015, 12:55:42 pm
Quote from: werothegreat on February 02, 2015, 12:50:53 pm
Quote from: Minotaur on February 02, 2015, 12:36:36 pm
Quote from: Jack Rudd on February 02, 2015, 09:40:28 am
Prince of Scouts is vaguely useful.

Unlike King's Court, yeah.  I can see that.  But I would probably pick something else...

You may not have a choice.

Because the entire board has only two Action cards in it...?
Because you got a scout somehow (maybe swindler) and drew prince with scout and no other actions.

You don't have to *play it*.  Even if you draw Golem-Scout, you would play the Scout first just in case.  Really, Masquerade-Possession is about the only way.

The Masquerade-Prince-Scout pin... the stuff of legends.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: liopoil on February 02, 2015, 01:10:38 pm
Quote from: Minotaur on February 02, 2015, 01:02:14 pm
Quote from: liopoil on February 02, 2015, 12:57:21 pm
Quote from: Minotaur on February 02, 2015, 12:55:42 pm
Quote from: werothegreat on February 02, 2015, 12:50:53 pm
Quote from: Minotaur on February 02, 2015, 12:36:36 pm
Quote from: Jack Rudd on February 02, 2015, 09:40:28 am
Prince of Scouts is vaguely useful.

Unlike King's Court, yeah.  I can see that.  But I would probably pick something else...

You may not have a choice.

Because the entire board has only two Action cards in it...?
Because you got a scout somehow (maybe swindler) and drew prince with scout and no other actions.

You don't have to *play it*.  Even if you draw Golem-Scout, you would play the Scout first just in case.  Really, Masquerade-Possession is about the only way.

The Masquerade-Prince-Scout pin... the stuff of legends.
No. If I have a scout and prince and no other actions in hand, I will almost certainly prince the scout rather than wait another shuffle before I see my prince again.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Gherald on February 02, 2015, 02:16:05 pm
I played a Wishing Well/Scout/Goons engine recently... ::)

(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/8/8d/Sea_Hag.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Sea Hag) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/e/e2/Spice_Merchant.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Spice Merchant) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/8/8e/Mine.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Mine) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/e/e2/Goons.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Goons) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/7/78/Bank.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Bank)
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/e/e6/Forager.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Forager) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/8/88/Steward.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Steward) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/c/c2/Watchtower.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Watchtower) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/f/f7/Wishing_Well.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Wishing Well) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/4/46/Scout.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Scout)

Log: http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150130/log.50babbafe4b05a8d74969537.1422639677289.txt
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Minotaur on February 02, 2015, 04:05:31 pm
Quote from: Gherald on February 02, 2015, 02:16:05 pm
I played a Wishing Well/Scout/Goons engine recently... ::)

(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/8/8d/Sea_Hag.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Sea Hag) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/e/e2/Spice_Merchant.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Spice Merchant) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/8/8e/Mine.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Mine) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/e/e2/Goons.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Goons) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/7/78/Bank.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Bank)
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/e/e6/Forager.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Forager) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/8/88/Steward.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Steward) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/c/c2/Watchtower.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Watchtower) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/f/f7/Wishing_Well.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Wishing Well) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/4/46/Scout.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Scout)

Log: http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150130/log.50babbafe4b05a8d74969537.1422639677289.txt

There should be an achievement for this.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Minotaur on February 02, 2015, 04:29:49 pm
Fine...

(https://i.imgflip.com/h4yru.jpg) (https://imgflip.com/i/h4yru)via Imgflip Meme Maker (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Asper on February 03, 2015, 05:41:27 am
Quote from: Minotaur on February 02, 2015, 04:29:49 pm
Fine...
[Image]

That... face...! O__o *shudder*
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: qmech on February 03, 2015, 09:41:07 am
I'm not sure Scout quite deserved to get a penguin through the eye.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: dondon151 on February 03, 2015, 03:04:55 pm
"Young lad, I used to be a Scout like you, until I took a penguin in the eye."
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Minotaur on February 03, 2015, 03:11:26 pm
Quote from: dondon151 on February 03, 2015, 03:04:55 pm
"Young lad, I used to be a Scout like you, until I took a penguin in the eye."

He thought the cosmetic surgery would make him socially awesome...
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: ThaddeusB on February 04, 2015, 12:55:09 pm
Here's a game I played recently where scout was a good acquisition: http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150202/log.53be12a0e4b00ccce8075fbc.1422946588137.txt

(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/7/7a/Procession.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Procession) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/4/46/Scout.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Scout) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/b/b9/Baker.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Baker) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/c/c2/Junk_Dealer.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Junk Dealer) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/3/37/Mystic.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Mystic)
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/2/2c/Candlestick_Maker.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Candlestick Maker) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/4/4f/Lighthouse.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Lighthouse) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/f/fe/Moat.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Moat) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/c/c1/Herald.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Herald) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/7/76/Ironworks.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Ironworks)
Code: [Select]
Candlestick Maker, Lighthouse, Moat, Herald, Ironworks, Procession, Scout, Baker, Junk Dealer, Mystic
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Minotaur on February 04, 2015, 01:04:45 pm
Quote from: ThaddeusB on February 04, 2015, 12:55:09 pm
Here's a game I played recently where scout was a good acquisition: http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150202/log.53be12a0e4b00ccce8075fbc.1422946588137.txt

(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/7/7a/Procession.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Procession) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/4/46/Scout.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Scout) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/b/b9/Baker.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Baker) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/c/c2/Junk_Dealer.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Junk Dealer) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/3/37/Mystic.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Mystic)
(http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/2/2c/Candlestick_Maker.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Candlestick Maker) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/4/4f/Lighthouse.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Lighthouse) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/f/fe/Moat.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Moat) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/c/c1/Herald.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Herald) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/images/7/76/Ironworks.jpg) (http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Ironworks)
Code: [Select]
Candlestick Maker, Lighthouse, Moat, Herald, Ironworks, Procession, Scout, Baker, Junk Dealer, Mystic

Deep deck inspection with Mystic and Herald... I can see that.  Especially since they're the two strongest deck-guessers in the game.  Pretty remarkable.  I mentioned Mystic, but forgot all about Herald.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: jomini on February 05, 2015, 06:31:56 pm
Scout is a fine card when you pay effectively $0 for it. It smooths out your green draw and can allow you to better setup engines. Basically playing a scout decreases your hand by 1, but increases your search space for lining up components by 3.

For the price, it is rarely worth it (Mystic and especially Herald can do a lot better with Scout), but when I'm grabbing it for close to free - off an Iw or something - I will grab it for a number of engines if there are no longer useful components.

For instance, say I have something like Village/Iw/Hunting grounds. Village alone allows you to search 5 cards for a live Hunting grounds. Scout lets you search 7. That is a pretty big increase in the odds your engine will hit, pulling green out of deck is just gravy on top. When card draw is cheap, Scout gets better, the problem is that when card draw is cheap you normally want more of the draw instead. But if Scout uses otherwise useless gains (e.g. Iw), then it tends to do a decent job smoothing out engines. It is only when the opportunity cost for Scout falls that you really want to gain it for reliability purposes.

Similarly, Pool/Scout/Gainer is a decent step up from Pool/Gainer. Yeah grab your stack of Conspirators or whatever first, but if you have a Workshop, Pool gets a lot more reliable as Scout pulls out the odd stop card and can position your deck to discard a treasure stop. Given that Scout has a low effective card size with Pool (maybe something like .5 or .75 cards), it isn't a bad gain late-ish game.

The big question is how much extra support you are willing to allow on a combo. Scout/Xroads is borderline at best if the Scouts are free, but it gets a lot better with cards like Tr or Prssn so you can play a lot more Xroads. Likewise, Scout/Tunnel tricks are not too impressive, but if you get a nice constellation like Scout/Cellar/Apprentice/+buy it can be decent at juicing the Cellar (and worst case, you Apprentice the Scout). Most cards have good setups when you start talking 3 & 4 card comboing, but that comes at the price of being really rare in random play.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Polk5440 on February 05, 2015, 06:57:26 pm
Quote from: jomini on February 05, 2015, 06:31:56 pm
when I'm grabbing it for close to free - off an Iw or something - I will grab it for a number of engines if there are no longer useful components.

Another reason why Scout was fine in Intrigue and suffered with the addition of every other expansion. It sometimes looks almost respectable in Intrigue only games.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Minotaur on February 05, 2015, 07:06:38 pm
Quote from: Polk5440 on February 05, 2015, 06:57:26 pm
Quote from: jomini on February 05, 2015, 06:31:56 pm
when I'm grabbing it for close to free - off an Iw or something - I will grab it for a number of engines if there are no longer useful components.

Another reason why Scout was fine in Intrigue and suffered with the addition of every other expansion. It sometimes looks almost respectable in Intrigue only games.

Top-notch word choices boldfaced.  Even Mystic only bumps it up to usually-almost...
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: werothegreat on February 05, 2015, 07:21:43 pm
Quote from: Minotaur on February 05, 2015, 07:06:38 pm
Quote from: Polk5440 on February 05, 2015, 06:57:26 pm
Quote from: jomini on February 05, 2015, 06:31:56 pm
when I'm grabbing it for close to free - off an Iw or something - I will grab it for a number of engines if there are no longer useful components.

Another reason why Scout was fine in Intrigue and suffered with the addition of every other expansion. It sometimes looks almost respectable in Intrigue only games.

Top-notch word choices boldfaced.  Even Mystic only bumps it up to usually-almost...

The problem is the things that Scout "combos" well with (dual type Victories, naming cards) are:

1) Things that don't have a lot of design space (i.e., there are only so many Action-Victory cards that are still interesting)
2) Combo'd with better by other cards, e.g. Cartographer.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Minotaur on February 05, 2015, 07:25:13 pm
Quote from: werothegreat on February 05, 2015, 07:21:43 pm
Quote from: Minotaur on February 05, 2015, 07:06:38 pm
Quote from: Polk5440 on February 05, 2015, 06:57:26 pm
Quote from: jomini on February 05, 2015, 06:31:56 pm
when I'm grabbing it for close to free - off an Iw or something - I will grab it for a number of engines if there are no longer useful components.

Another reason why Scout was fine in Intrigue and suffered with the addition of every other expansion. It sometimes looks almost respectable in Intrigue only games.

Top-notch word choices boldfaced.  Even Mystic only bumps it up to usually-almost...

The problem is the things that Scout "combos" well with (dual type Victories, naming cards) are:

1) Things that don't have a lot of design space (i.e., there are only so many Action-Victory cards that are still interesting)
2) Combo'd with better by other cards, e.g. Cartographer.

Scrying Pool/Cellar/Scout might be the only example I can think of otherwise...  Or Cellar/Scout vs Rabble, which isn't that great, but in theory could work out sometimes maybe.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: c4master on February 06, 2015, 06:09:11 am
Imho the biggest problem with Scout is its price point. Being a $4 card makes it almost completely useless in slogs (Gardens, Silk Roads) where it would be kind of ok otherwise. It does help some cards but that's so often just marginal and only late-game that I doubt not getting a Scout on your 10th+ turn can be considered a mistake - espacially since your usually getting something else instead.

edit: Getting more $3 or $5 VP cards would be nice for Scout.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Gherald on February 06, 2015, 03:08:01 pm
"Well we've made this hammer with a head that's nearly useless, so let's sell it cheap and create some special nails for it"
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Davio on February 06, 2015, 03:12:22 pm
Quote from: werothegreat on February 01, 2015, 03:47:50 pm
Is Scout/Crossroads not a thing?
I once tried a Scout/Crossroads/Great Hall engine, it was pretty bad and made me feel like a Village idiot, played 10 cards, oh I guess all I can afford is another Great Hall!
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Minotaur on February 06, 2015, 04:07:01 pm
Quote from: Gherald on February 06, 2015, 03:08:01 pm
"Well we've made this hammer with a head that's nearly useless, so let's sell it cheap and create some special nails for it"

I have to agree.  Sure, it's not mathematically useless all of the time.  But there are so many times you wouldn't even pick it up for free.  It fails the Duchess test a lot worse than Duchess.  Before you can buff by lowering the price, you have to make sure that it's better than not having a card at all...
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Minotaur on February 06, 2015, 08:49:12 pm
Quote from: Davio on February 06, 2015, 03:12:22 pm
Quote from: werothegreat on February 01, 2015, 03:47:50 pm
Is Scout/Crossroads not a thing?
I once tried a Scout/Crossroads/Great Hall engine, it was pretty bad and made me feel like a Village idiot, played 10 cards, oh I guess all I can afford is another Great Hall!

I felt sort of the same thing the last time I tried to run Rats/Forge...
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Seprix on February 06, 2015, 09:04:10 pm
Here's a real challenge. Make a board where using Chancellor, Rats, AND Scout is viable. At the same time. GG, F.DS
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: TheOthin on February 06, 2015, 09:14:50 pm
Quote from: Seprix on February 06, 2015, 09:04:10 pm
Here's a real challenge. Make a board where using Chancellor, Rats, AND Scout is viable. At the same time. GG, F.DS

All three get along with Scrying Pool. It's not enough alone, but...
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Seprix on February 06, 2015, 09:19:07 pm
Quote from: TheOthin on February 06, 2015, 09:14:50 pm
Quote from: Seprix on February 06, 2015, 09:04:10 pm
Here's a real challenge. Make a board where using Chancellor, Rats, AND Scout is viable. At the same time. GG, F.DS

All three get along with Scrying Pool. It's not enough alone, but...

It's not like they work with Scrying Pool because they were designed to. They can't HELP but be an Action card.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Minotaur on February 06, 2015, 09:24:40 pm
Upgrade, Rabble, Nobles, Market Square, some kind of village?
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: liopoil on February 06, 2015, 09:26:04 pm
Quote from: Seprix on February 06, 2015, 09:19:07 pm
Quote from: TheOthin on February 06, 2015, 09:14:50 pm
Quote from: Seprix on February 06, 2015, 09:04:10 pm
Here's a real challenge. Make a board where using Chancellor, Rats, AND Scout is viable. At the same time. GG, F.DS

All three get along with Scrying Pool. It's not enough alone, but...

It's not like they work with Scrying Pool because they were designed to. They can't HELP but be an Action card.
So what? There still is such a board.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Seprix on February 06, 2015, 09:26:23 pm
Quote from: Minotaur on February 06, 2015, 09:24:40 pm
Upgrade, Rabble, Nobles, Market Square, some kind of village?

Wouldn't just a Nobles Rabble deck just stomp on Rats/Chancellor/Scout? :p

I dunno, I'd need some simulator.

Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Minotaur on February 06, 2015, 09:26:29 pm
Chancellor isn't that bad if there isn't a better $3 card.  As a terminal Silver, it's better than Silver if you don't have $4 terminals anyway.  Not that I'd miss him that much when he's gone...
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Minotaur on February 06, 2015, 09:27:33 pm
Quote from: Seprix on February 06, 2015, 09:26:23 pm
Quote from: Minotaur on February 06, 2015, 09:24:40 pm
Upgrade, Rabble, Nobles, Market Square, some kind of village?

Wouldn't just a Nobles Rabble deck just stomp on Rats/Chancellor/Scout? :p

I dunno, I'd need some simulator.

Are you counting on a 5/2 start?
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: liopoil on February 06, 2015, 09:30:58 pm
Quote from: Minotaur on February 06, 2015, 09:27:33 pm
Quote from: Seprix on February 06, 2015, 09:26:23 pm
Quote from: Minotaur on February 06, 2015, 09:24:40 pm
Upgrade, Rabble, Nobles, Market Square, some kind of village?

Wouldn't just a Nobles Rabble deck just stomp on Rats/Chancellor/Scout? :p

I dunno, I'd need some simulator.

Are you counting on a 5/2 start?
Nah. Scout is horrible on that board. Scrying pool is definitely the way to go for this. You want great hall, island, ironworks, and weak TfB. Maybe death cart + 10 ruined markets. That leaves two spots, one of which needs to be a village.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Minotaur on February 06, 2015, 09:31:54 pm
idk, I might go Rats/Market Square instead of Rats/Chancellor.  But Chancellor is safer, since Rats might fail to collide with MS, and then you had a card do nothing on Shuffle 2.  So I would proabably get Chancellor/Rats.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Minotaur on February 06, 2015, 09:34:35 pm
Quote from: liopoil on February 06, 2015, 09:30:58 pm
Quote from: Minotaur on February 06, 2015, 09:27:33 pm
Quote from: Seprix on February 06, 2015, 09:26:23 pm
Quote from: Minotaur on February 06, 2015, 09:24:40 pm
Upgrade, Rabble, Nobles, Market Square, some kind of village?

Wouldn't just a Nobles Rabble deck just stomp on Rats/Chancellor/Scout? :p

I dunno, I'd need some simulator.

Are you counting on a 5/2 start?
Nah. Scout is horrible on that board. Scrying pool is definitely the way to go for this. You want great hall, island, ironworks, and weak TfB. Maybe death cart + 10 ruined markets. That leaves two spots, one of which needs to be a village.

My thought was that Rabble would get played a lot, but even then it's hard.  Chancellor isn't actually horrible, and Rats is sort of ok with TfB.  Scout is a freaking headache...
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: TheOthin on February 06, 2015, 09:39:43 pm
Quote from: Seprix on February 06, 2015, 09:19:07 pm
Quote from: TheOthin on February 06, 2015, 09:14:50 pm
Quote from: Seprix on February 06, 2015, 09:04:10 pm
Here's a real challenge. Make a board where using Chancellor, Rats, AND Scout is viable. At the same time. GG, F.DS

All three get along with Scrying Pool. It's not enough alone, but...

It's not like they work with Scrying Pool because they were designed to. They can't HELP but be an Action card.

It's not that simple. Chancellor is often just a worse version of Silver, so Scrying Pool's ability to draw it gives it a distinction most cards don't need. If you can get enough villages to play several but have a shortage of other virtual coin, it can be a valuable part of a treasureless deck. Rats can replace starting cards with more Rats, which isn't valuable trashing in most cases but if it's the only way to smooth out a Scrying Pool chain it's a lot more meaningful.

Scout is still the hard one. It doesn't take up much space in your deck with Scrying Pool around, and rearranging the top of your deck can both help arrange your own Scrying Pools and fend off your opponents'. But I don't know how you could be persuaded to actually pick one up. Maybe somehow arranging for you to want Ironworks early and then have little to use it on later?
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Minotaur on February 06, 2015, 09:43:01 pm
If you Cellar enough Victory cards, then Chancellor can give you a chance to Scout them back and Cellar them again.  But this is really stupid and unlikely to be worth attempting.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: TheOthin on February 06, 2015, 09:50:49 pm
Quote from: Minotaur on February 06, 2015, 09:43:01 pm
If you Cellar enough Victory cards, then Chancellor can give you a chance to Scout them back and Cellar them again.  But this is really stupid and unlikely to be worth attempting.

Discard for benefit could get along with Scout, but Scrying Pool does it even better; discard like 20 Actions and pick them all back up with one card.

Perhaps Silk Road could be a good way of getting players to want enough green for Scout to matter? Great Hall wouldn't directly help Scout much because Scrying Pool can get it too, but on top of working with Ironworks, it could make Silk Road more prominent to go for in the first place. Meanwhile Island would probably actually be counterproductive by getting other green out of the way.
Title: Re: Combinations that actually make Scout do something useful
Post by: Minotaur on February 06, 2015, 10:14:06 pm
Quote from: Minotaur on November 10, 2014, 02:51:12 pm
Questionable Scout Enabler (or - Scout's Manual)
Action
Cost: $3

+1 action
Look through your discard pile.  Reveal any number of Victory cards from your discard pile and place them on top of your deck in any order.

With Ironworks and Great Hall...