Rabid Dog
$5 Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand. If it's an Action, exchange this for a Madman.
AlcoveThis would be funky with Chapel. Open Chapel/Alcove. T3: Chapel, Alcove, 3 Estates. Blow the green up for 3 Spoils.
Action/Reaction - $3
Gain a Spoils, putting it anywhere in your deck.
_________
When you gain or trash a card, you may reveal this from your hand, to exchange the card for a Spoils
OP still isn't a coherent concept (OP -- over what?) but the ability to turn random +buys into spoils is pretty bonkers. Any cantrip +buy is going to have a field day with Alcove. Counterfeit will, too.Card strength is not existing? Now that is a crazy notion.
Copper Mine • $1 • Treasure - Shelter
Gain a Copper to your Hand. If you did, gain a Spoils to your Deck's top.
OP still isn't a coherent concept (OP -- over what?) but the ability to turn random +buys into spoils is pretty bonkers. Any cantrip +buy is going to have a field day with Alcove. Counterfeit will, too.Card strength is not existing? Now that is a crazy notion.
There are obviously overpowered cards in Dominion, e.g. Cultist and Rebuild.
So if the only thing "over" (which is a comparative word) can target is other cards, and if it's not a bad thing if a card is stronger than other cards, well then "overpowered" is obviously not an applicable concept. (I've been saying this for years now.)As Dominion does feature a fixed and not a rotating card pool like other deckbuilders, gama balance is indeed not that sensitive to varying card strength. As you neatly pointed out via Donate, Events are even less sensitive to them and e.g. Summon being virtually strictly stronger than Demand is not a huge issue.
Each other player with 5 or more cards in hand reveals their hand except one card and discards one of the revealed cards that you choose.
If a player discarded a card costing $5 or more, trash this.
-
When you trash this, gain 2 Spoils.
All this does not mean that [...] you cannot, and when analyzing fan designs should not, deeply care about [card strength]
I'm completely new here and this is my first card ever - so please don't judge me too hard.
This card would replace Pillage:
(https://i.imgur.com/eFjPDifm.png)QuoteEach other player with 5 or more cards in hand reveals their hand except one card and discards one of the revealed cards that you choose.
If a player discarded a card costing $5 or more, trash this.
-
When you trash this, gain 2 Spoils.
I don't think it's better than Archer.
Each other player with 5 or more cards in hand reveals all but one and discards one of them that you choose.
If a player discarded a card costing more than this, trash this.
-
When you trash this, gain 2 Spoils.
-
Cost: $4
Type: Action - Attack
You can put overpowered in quotation marks as often as you want to, it does not make card strength any less relevant. If you ignore power level in your designs, you will sooner or later come up with things than cannot be salvaged.All this does not mean that [...] you cannot, and when analyzing fan designs should not, deeply care about [card strength]
Why not? I think that's exactly what it means.
I mean the "you should think about" thing is bit of an applause line because you can always say that it's better to think about something than not think about it. But I claim that "overpowered" is not a valid criticism and there's no reason to ever make that critique in writing (or judging). And you didn't give any reason why this would be a reasonable thing; you just stated it.
Even when designing a card, I don't think about powerlevel. I think about what kind of new idea I want to do. Then sometimes when it's done, I think about whether this particular idea would work better as a strong or weak card. And if it's too weak, I do something to fix that.* But it's not a key concern.
* since "underpowered" is a different category because if a card is consistently the weakest card on the board that is actually an issue.
I don’t know whether it is stronger or weaker than Archer. But Pillage is a guaranteed Coin spike that you want either early in the game or in situations in which you need that very Coin spike (you trashed down quickly, got decent draw but not much payload, …). The Attack is nice and strong but not the reason you buy Pillage.I don't think it's better than Archer.
You're absolutely right. Didn't think of archer. A price of 4 makes more sense:QuoteEach other player with 5 or more cards in hand reveals all but one and discards one of them that you choose.
If a player discarded a card costing more than this, trash this.
-
When you trash this, gain 2 Spoils.
-
Cost: $4
Type: Action - Attack
Junk Dog | Action - Looter | $3
+2 Cards
You may gain a Ruins from the Supply to play it.
-
When you trash this, play it
GongfarmerA play on Sage, reborn as a trasher.
$4 Action
Trash a card from your hand.
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal one costing more than the trashed card.
Put two of the revealed cards into your hand and discard the rest.
Ruinous Route • $4 • Action - Looter
Gain a Ruin.
Review your Deck's top five cards, trashing up to three and returning the rest.
Choose one: +$2; or play up to two Ruins from the Trash, leaving them there.
Redoubt
$3 - Action - Looter
+3 Actions
Gain 3 Ruins to your hand. This turn, after playing a Ruins, return it to its pile.
Early on, i.e. until the Ruins are out, it net trashes one, gives you two vanillas and basically something like -1 Card as the junk is topdecked.:)QuoteRuinous Route • $4 • Action - Looter
You may gain a Ruin to your Deck's top to trash two cards from your Hand.
Choose one: +1 Action and +$1; or play up to two Ruins from the Trash.:)Sadly there are only three official Looters, but none of them allow you to use them as Actions - Death Cart merely uses them as fodder. Cultist and Marauder use Ruins like Curses.
This uses Dark Age's theme of self junking, like Beggar, Death Cart; Count.:)
This would replace Beggar - a card i have never bought, nor have seen a kingdom where it would be of much use. I would also toss-out Survivors.Beggar is pretty decent in Knight games and centralizing with Guildhall.
(https://i.imgur.com/SWL2Xnz.png)I like this but I am pretty sure that this is a $4. Anything but Ruined Village and Survivors is decent. Supposed you get Library, Mine and Market. Then you get Market + 2 Villages. Suppose you get two Mines and whatever, then this is strictly better than Conclave.QuoteRedoubt
$3 - Action - Looter
+3 Actions
Gain 3 Ruins to your hand. This turn, after playing a Ruins, return it to its pile.
It uses “after” instead of “when” in the same way that Inspiring (https://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Inspiring) does. The timing of the return to pile matters for Way of the Mouse (https://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Way_of_the_mouse) using Redoubt as the set aside card.
Redoubt is a friendly Looter like Death Cart (https://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Death_Cart). You are tempted by the possibility of Peddler or a Lab. But some combinations are comparable to $2-cost cards (e.g. Ruined Village x2 + Ruined Mine ≈ Squire (https://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Squire)). The best effects hinge on Ruined Library. Careful play order is needed so that the desirable Ruins don’t get buried deep. Lean too heavily into Redoubt, and the opponent may just gain and trash the Ruined Libraries, leaving you with a mess of stop-cards. It’s still a double Necropolis if you can get draw elsewhere and have a way to deal with the undesirable terminal Ruins. And it helps counter the unfriendly Attack - Looters.
Redoubt could partially replace Beggar as a card that gains a lot of cheap cards to your hand. It has strong synergies as does Beggar, but Redoubt is more usable in a normal kingdom without those specific combos, while Beggar usually just sits there. Another 2E card can replace Beggar’s defensive Reaction.
(https://i.imgur.com/SWL2Xnz.png)QuoteRedoubt
$3 - Action - Looter
+3 Actions
Gain 3 Ruins to your hand. This turn, after playing a Ruins, return it to its pile.
It uses “after” instead of “when” in the same way that Inspiring (https://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Inspiring) does. The timing of the return to pile matters for Way of the Mouse (https://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Way_of_the_mouse) using Redoubt as the set aside card.
Redoubt is a friendly Looter like Death Cart (https://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Death_Cart). You are tempted by the possibility of Peddler or a Lab. But some combinations are comparable to $2-cost cards (e.g. Ruined Village x2 + Ruined Mine ≈ Squire (https://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Squire)). The best effects hinge on Ruined Library. Careful play order is needed so that the desirable Ruins don’t get buried deep. Lean too heavily into Redoubt, and the opponent may just gain and trash the Ruined Libraries, leaving you with a mess of stop-cards. It’s still a double Necropolis if you can get draw elsewhere and have a way to deal with the undesirable terminal Ruins. And it helps counter the unfriendly Attack - Looters.
Redoubt could partially replace Beggar as a card that gains a lot of cheap cards to your hand. It has strong synergies as does Beggar, but Redoubt is more usable in a normal kingdom without those specific combos, while Beggar usually just sits there. Another 2E card can replace Beggar’s defensive Reaction.
(https://i.imgur.com/SWL2Xnz.png)I like this but I am pretty sure that this is a $4. Anything but Ruined Village and Survivors is decent. Supposed you get Library, Mine and Market. Then you get Market + 2 Villages. Suppose you get two Mines and whatever, then this is strictly better than Conclave.QuoteRedoubt
$3 - Action - Looter
+3 Actions
Gain 3 Ruins to your hand. This turn, after playing a Ruins, return it to its pile.
It uses “after” instead of “when” in the same way that Inspiring (https://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Inspiring) does. The timing of the return to pile matters for Way of the Mouse (https://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Way_of_the_mouse) using Redoubt as the set aside card.
Redoubt is a friendly Looter like Death Cart (https://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Death_Cart). You are tempted by the possibility of Peddler or a Lab. But some combinations are comparable to $2-cost cards (e.g. Ruined Village x2 + Ruined Mine ≈ Squire (https://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Squire)). The best effects hinge on Ruined Library. Careful play order is needed so that the desirable Ruins don’t get buried deep. Lean too heavily into Redoubt, and the opponent may just gain and trash the Ruined Libraries, leaving you with a mess of stop-cards. It’s still a double Necropolis if you can get draw elsewhere and have a way to deal with the undesirable terminal Ruins. And it helps counter the unfriendly Attack - Looters.
Redoubt could partially replace Beggar as a card that gains a lot of cheap cards to your hand. It has strong synergies as does Beggar, but Redoubt is more usable in a normal kingdom without those specific combos, while Beggar usually just sits there. Another 2E card can replace Beggar’s defensive Reaction.
Squatter - $2
Action/Looter
This turn, directly after you finish playing an Action costing $2 or less, +1 Action.
-
In games using this, when you gain a card costing $0 from the Supply, exchange it for a Ruins.
Street Rat
$3 Action
+2 Actions
Look at the top card of your deck.
You may trash or discard it. If you did and it costs $2 or less, gain a Spoils.
Remember not to make the card a 3$ if you think it's stronger than the average 4$.
The notion that the opponent might gain and trash Ruins seems dubious, self-junking is after all a heavy price to pay.
And at worst you still got a Double-Necro whereas he had to self-junk & trash for little benefit.
On a serious note, I'd consider returning the card to the bottom of the pile
Remember not to make the card a 3$ if you think it's stronger than the average 4$.
Like I said, it’s easy to think of the Labs and Smithies and Peddlers and forget all the other junk that’s possible. If you tally the weighted value it’s about $3. Weighted value of everything above the line (with +Cards) is about $4, and weighted value of everything below the line (without +Cards) is about $2.
^ I don't know how the rules work here; can you gain Curses once Ruins are out?
You can only exchange if both cards are available to be exchanged; you have to be able to return the gained card to its pile (only possible if it came from a pile), and you have to be able to take the Silver.
Awesome analysis :DRemember not to make the card a 3$ if you think it's stronger than the average 4$.
Like I said, it’s easy to think of the Labs and Smithies and Peddlers and forget all the other junk that’s possible. If you tally the weighted value it’s about $3. Weighted value of everything above the line (with +Cards) is about $4, and weighted value of everything below the line (without +Cards) is about $2.
Hm I thought the sarcasm would be obvious in the context of my previous posts lamenting the misuse of the overpowered concept. What I meant to say was: the idea that you have to figure out whether your card is above or below a certain powerlevel to figure out whether to price it at 3$ or 4$ is extremely silly. Imo you'd do better just not thinking about card strength at all when deciding this. The major thing you should think about is whether it would be fun if people can open with two of the thing. After that, I mean 3$ will allow people to buy it slightly more situations later in the game.
I made the reference to Donald X because he's released tons of busted 3$'s that are much stronger than 4$s. In fact it was sort of loosely held that the average 3$ is stronger than the average 4$ at some point (this probably isn't true nowadays), but in any case, it was common knowledge that "weaker cards cost 3$ and stronger cards cost 4$" isn't a thing. Apparently that's not common knowledge anymore, but it's still true.
In fact I vividly remember being a very nooby person in this forum and someone was indicated that 3$s are stronger than 4$s, and I was like, that can't be right, and then they were like, no literally, and I was like huh, but I didn't write it because back then I didn't admit mistakes.
Anyway your analysis convinced me that it's weaker than the average 4$, which has precisely zero bearing on how I would price it. (I'd price it at 3$ so you can open with two of them.)
Scavenger Dog | Action - Looter | $3
+2 Cards
You may play a Ruins from the Supply or your hand.
-
When you trash this, play it.
Updated entry
(https://i.imgur.com/bZKyqUK.png)QuoteScavenger Dog | Action - Looter | $3
+2 Cards
You may play a Ruins from the Supply or your hand.
-
When you trash this, play it.
I've updated Scavenger Dog, it's now a soft-counter against most of the attacks in Dark Ages, similar to Watchtower was. You can choose to play a Ruins from the Supply which puts it in play without gaining the card, next turn it goes into your deck. Or, you could play a Ruins from your your hand, maybe you got junked by Marauder, or maybe you self-junked yourself with a previous Scavenger Dog. This doesn't defend against discard attacks though. Then there's the on-trash aspect, which defends against knights. I think the only interaction Scavenger Dog is missing is Spoils, but you can't put everything on one card then it would look like Junk as opposed to just a Junk Dog
Loanshark:
$5 action-duration card.
Look through your discard pile, and Set aside an Action Card from it or your hand under this. Trash it at the end of your next turn.
Until then, when you play a copy of that card or a card from that pile, you first get +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy and +$1.
^ I think this needs to say "look through your discard pile" first (Eremit, and in general, you're not allowed to search it otherwise), and I think it also needs to be stronger to be viable. Right now, even if you get +2 Actions off of this (which you very rarely will), it's "+2 Actions, trash one card, discard this delayed", which is weak since you can't straight-forwardly use it on junk. And the floor is that you get no Actions at all. (Also, "action card" -> "Action card".)
Updated entry
(https://i.imgur.com/bZKyqUK.png)QuoteScavenger Dog | Action - Looter | $3
+2 Cards
You may play a Ruins from the Supply or your hand.
-
When you trash this, play it.
You may want to add "other than in in cleanup" about the trash-play part to mimic trail
(https://i.imgur.com/D03AW9ih.png) | Quote Feral Cat • $2 • Action - Reaction |
It is still too weak. Even with Looters in the Kingdom, it would be highly unlikely that you can play splitter, Loanshark, 2 Ruins which is really the only situation in which this shines. Being able to play one Ruins is OKish, the card then had the same vanillas as Junk Dealer. But how often do these stars align (splitter, Loan Shark, Ruins in hand, identical Ruins in discard)? If you don’t have a copy of that Ruins in hand, the card is kinda like „+1 Card Trash a card“ which is worse than Maroon.^ I think this needs to say "look through your discard pile" first (Eremit, and in general, you're not allowed to search it otherwise), and I think it also needs to be stronger to be viable. Right now, even if you get +2 Actions off of this (which you very rarely will), it's "+2 Actions, trash one card, discard this delayed", which is weak since you can't straight-forwardly use it on junk. And the floor is that you get no Actions at all. (Also, "action card" -> "Action card".)
good points. Posting an updated version, added "+1 action +1$" and cards from that pile as well. so you can get the benefit from ruins, or split piles from later expansion
my submission:
LOANSHARK.
(v3)
(https://i.imgur.com/IPrMtHA.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/vE68eKm.png)QuoteLoanshark:
$5 action-duration card.
Look through your discard pile, and Set aside an Action Card from it or your hand under this. Trash it at the end of your next turn.
Until then, when you play a copy of that card or a card from that pile, you first get +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy and +$1.
WINNER: Feral Cat by emtzalex