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[Beyond Awesome]

I still feel like I don't want to just do a boring old standard campaign. Goko already has lots of those and plans on doing more. If we do a campaign, I think it should be unique in some way. I still think either a puzzle based campaign or a strategy based one (beginner or more advanced, I don't care).

Well, Super Pack 1 allows for a lot of combo potentials: NV/Brdige, KC engines, etc. We have Wharf, FV, and Ambassador to also work with. We could try an enginey campaign.

Here is a sample kingdom that we might first introduce to someone. I came up with it off the top of my head, so it can probably use some work. Chapel, Native Village, Watchtower, Bridge, Smithy, Ghost Ship, Rabble, Duke, Harem, Bank

My thoughts are the first time, we don't give any hints. Then, for the second kingdom we point out the combo and say, oh, and last game you may or may not have noticed this neat combo. We would slightly modify the kingdom, but keep the style intact. And, then, we would have a third kindgom with the combo still in it, but perhaps harder to pull off. So, it would look something like this. Chapel, NV, vanilla village, Bridge, Smithy, Mountebank, Rabble, Duke, Harem, King's Court. This also leads us to our next combo since we now have KC/Bridge and so we can transition from combo to combo or different strategies.

Thoughts?

[ftl]

I feel like I'm alone in wanting to make something that's not educational in the slightest, just fun to play.

Maybe I'm outvoted on that. Ah well.

[Tables]

...Hence, level progression from Intrigue-heavy to Seaside-heavy to Prosperity-Heavy, or something.

I quite like this idea. Doesn't have to be exact, we can use all the expansions throughout, but this might be interesting.

I'm with you in wanting something that's basically just fun. Regarding the strategy pointers, what I think would be a good method is, include the powerful combos, don't tell the player how to execute them but instead key them into the core cards. For example (fitting with Goko's cheezy excuse plot style):

"Your ship lands ashore on a Native Village. The natives aren't that friendly, and you decide you need to escape as fast as possible. It doesn't look too far to the mainland, so perhaps building a Bridge would work?"

[hsiale]

I think the campaign should primarily be fun. Something aimed at casual players, similar to current campaigns.

Still we definitely can use kingdoms with interesting strategies possible (and vary those strategies from game to game) hinting at them in flavour text. I like the NV/Bridge example, maybe it should hint a bit more that you aim to play many bridges at once ("The main land is far, and bridges not so long. But there are small inhabited islands on the sea. Will building multiple bridges bring you back home?)"

[Ozle]

Yeah, I knocked up about 10 or so rough designs and just went for well known combos, with some counters and a few alternates.

[Donald X.]

Yeah, I knocked up about 10 or so rough designs and just went for well known combos, with some counters and a few alternates.

pics or it didn't happen

[Ozle]

Heh, these guys are far more qualified than me to put together decent decks, mine were just so i could write stories about them!

[Ozle]

Also, I have no idea about the opponents, zaps etc..as have played a sum total of 4 games on goko

[ftl]

We can figure out opponents and zaps; presumably, a progression from "easy opponent, they have handicap" to "best opponent, no handicaps" to "opponent starts with a bunch of extra stuff". Have number of available zaps increase a little but not enough to cover the handicap; but, ideally, have sufficiently powerful boards available that near the end of the campaign, a player who knows their stuff can make a comeback without buying any additional zaps. (Colony and Prosperity's VP chips and Bridge make that really easy to do, honestly).

[ftl]

...and i still have no idea how to coordinate people to actually get something done.  Collaboration is tough.

I... I do not think I thought my cunning plan all the way through.

[Tables]

We could put things to the vote, after we think we've done enough brainstorming?

Or failing that, elect someone as a leader for the time being, let them make the final decisions after getting feedback, and see how things go?

We could also make some kind of... thing to display our ideas and thoughts so far. First post is probably sufficient for that.

[Donald X.]

...and i still have no idea how to coordinate people to actually get something done.  Collaboration is tough.

I... I do not think I thought my cunning plan all the way through.

You just say something like, "Okay, this thread is now for making a non-educational good-times super-pack 1 campaign - Intrigue, Seaside, Prosperity (with the main set also available). Post level ideas or actual sets of 10, or ideas for the story. Those of you who want to do a different thing, start another thread, chop chop."

And then I would probably immediately follow it with another post that starts, "I'll get the ball rolling with some combos I'd like to see."

[theory]

What it needs -- as almost all projects need -- is someone (or some ones) to take ownership of the project.  Someone to make a bunch of decisions and take control.  It's hard otherwise to get things done.  See, e.g., DominionStrategy wiki, which didn't get anywhere until Qvist took it upon himself to get it started, at which point everyone started doing things.

So if you want to do it, post and say so, or PM me.  Multiple people is fine too.  I'll make a forum for it.

[Beyond Awesome]

Okay. I volunteer to take ownership of this project.

So, we need two things.

1) A story. So, what would be nice is for people to submit story suggestions that can fit the theme of cards

2) We need fun casual kingdoms with the occasional combo sprinkled in for newer players to discover.

So, I need people to submit story ideas. And, I need people to submit kingdom ideas. We can then try to match the kingdoms up to the story.

Also, here some additional ideas I have. For this campaign let's focus on Super Pack 1. I think it would be okay for maybe the last four kingdoms to have a couple of cards from Super Pack 2 to serve as an advertisement for it. So, if someone wants to throw in a HoP or whatever card suits the kingdom for the last four kingdoms, I say go for it. Also, I think for most kingdoms we want some trap cards. Maybe design a BM board that looks fun with a lot of villages and whatnot. Also, I think most sets should have a village since newer players gravitate towards though. However, I would also like to see a couple (not many) of kingdoms with no villages just to make the player think a little. Those kingdoms can be for later levels. We should also try to incorporate various alternate VP strategies when possible.

Edit: And some more thoughts. For this campaign, let's leave strategy out of it. Maybe the next campaign can be focused on strategy. Having combos in the kingdoms is fine, but let's have the player discover it. However, the story can hint at combos.

Also, it would be neat if we had the occassional level that was a puzzler. Someone suggested having a kingdom where the bot begins with 7 Provinces and 3 Duchies. To win, you have to get the last Province before the opponent. Maybe, we can have puzzles for the boss battles. I am not sure about that. And, to win the boss battle, you need to solve the puzzle. Maybe that won't work, but if we have the occasional puzzle kingdom, I think that would cool. Also, the story can incorporate the puzzles somehow as well so that it fits the plot.

So, let me amend that. I want to see casual kingdoms with various strategies and combos for newer players to discover, and I also want puzzle kingdoms with different starting hands and whatnot submitted as well.

[Ozle]

Ok, so I had a quick look at the Wiki and pulled out a few combos and cards that synergised, added a few cards that also worked, put in a couple of nombos and filled out with cards to make it even.

Obviously it was just a start, but should give the project a bit of a start if needed?

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9nChUoUKdnGMlk0d0QzZV9RdDg/edit

Im not quite understanding why this part is the tricky part, you pick some cards, now just got to sub in a few cards, make sure they are balanced across sets, and costs if need be.

I only used Base-Prosperity and Seaside for these, not sure why I didnt include Intrigue, possibly because I didnt want people paying too much money to play them.

Story book for them is still in draft, will post tomorrow

[ftl]

I had a plane flight! I made a set. I think I like it.

Set: Native Village, Masquerade, Wishing Well, Worker's Village, Cutpurse, Baron, Council Room, Rabble, Treasury, Venture

Opponent: whichever bot will favor Rabble the most. Warlord bot?
Zaps/starting decks: Doesn't matter/normal-ish.

What players can do:
Beginners: lots of people like Masquerade and Wishing Well. Buy whatever and some villages.
Intermediate: option of BM-Masq with Venture, or a NV/WV/Rabble/CR engine. Choice Of Strategy yay.
Advanced: Rabble has subtle interactions with a lot of cards here which you can plan for and make use if you pick up on it. It has interactions with WW, Native Village, Baron, Venture...
Unnecessarily Clever: Notice a Cutpurse-masq pin snuck in there?

Card stats:

Intrigue: 3
Seaside: 3
Prosperity: 3
Base: 1

2-cost: 1
3-cost: 2
4-cost: 3
5-cost: 4

[Beyond Awesome]

I had a plane flight! I made a set. I think I like it.

Set: Native Village, Masquerade, Wishing Well, Worker's Village, Cutpurse, Baron, Council Room, Rabble, Treasury, Venture

Opponent: whichever bot will favor Rabble the most. Warlord bot?
Zaps/starting decks: Doesn't matter/normal-ish.

What players can do:
Beginners: lots of people like Masquerade and Wishing Well. Buy whatever and some villages.
Intermediate: option of BM-Masq with Venture, or a NV/WV/Rabble/CR engine. Choice Of Strategy yay.
Advanced: Rabble has subtle interactions with a lot of cards here which you can plan for and make use if you pick up on it. It has interactions with WW, Native Village, Baron, Venture...
Unnecessarily Clever: Notice a Cutpurse-masq pin snuck in there?

Card stats:

Intrigue: 3
Seaside: 3
Prosperity: 3
Base: 1

2-cost: 1
3-cost: 2
4-cost: 3
5-cost: 4

I like this kingdom ftl. I think this is a good start. I have also noticed that newer players tend to gravitate towards Treasury, so I think it's cool that you included it. Actally, you put a lot of cards that newer players gravitate towards, and yet at the time, there also seems to be a lot of strategic choices offered by your kingdom as well.

[Beyond Awesome]

Ok, so I had a quick look at the Wiki and pulled out a few combos and cards that synergised, added a few cards that also worked, put in a couple of nombos and filled out with cards to make it even.

Obviously it was just a start, but should give the project a bit of a start if needed?

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9nChUoUKdnGMlk0d0QzZV9RdDg/edit

Im not quite understanding why this part is the tricky part, you pick some cards, now just got to sub in a few cards, make sure they are balanced across sets, and costs if need be.

I only used Base-Prosperity and Seaside for these, not sure why I didnt include Intrigue, possibly because I didnt want people paying too much money to play them.

Story book for them is still in draft, will post tomorrow

Thanks Ozle. I think the kingdoms are decent for the most part. I do think you should sprinkle some Intrigue in there. I know what you are saying about people not having much money to spend, but I think we should focus on a campaign for Super Pack 1. That gives us a few more extra cards to work with which allows for more interactive and fun kingdoms. I am about to go to bed, but I will comment on your kingdoms sometime tomorrow and give you my thoughts.

Anyway, everyone, lets keep the kingdoms coming.

[Ozle]

I deliberately decided against Intrigue. It was too much. Was not just the cost.

With Seaside, Base and Prosperity there you have a good mix of enginey cards which is what I was going for. Add in intrigue (and I treid that) and it becomes a bit more convulted and you are trying to shoe horn in too many good cards that will never get used.

For example, for the Gardens deck, once you have Gardens and a couple of cheap gainers, a lot of what else you are putting in there is mainly filler. You dont want to overload a gardens deck with Gardens, Woodcutter, Workshop, Ironworks, Talisman, etc... as it means people will really just be able to buy anything and it will still work (especially against the bots)

I preferred keeping it tight, I think i used most of the cards (missing a few from Base, but meh)


Also, all the current campaigns are One (plus base) set are they not?
The next natural evolution is two sets, and I think that will be an easier sell, rather than overload people with two many cards at once.

you immediately start off with 3 sets and you are probably killing the idea of 2 sets from then on.

[Tables]

That makes sense, but I think I prefer having Intrigue, firstly for the prettiness of matching the Super Bundle and secondly there are more options including it.
We could even choose to forego base cards, so it would still be only three dominion card sets. That could shake things up a little more.

Ozle, could you post your kingdoms into the thread? That google doc link you gave is a little unpleasant on my eyes, I think it'd be easier to read/assess directly.

[werothegreat]

This is working in the 2nd Super Pack.

Border Village, Embassy, Trader, Tunnel, Tournament, Harvest, Apothecary, Golem, Familiar, Crossroads

This is a modification of a Kingdom I made a while back that allows for a Copper, Silver and Gold strategy.  Tunnel gives you lots of Gold, Trader gives lots of Silver, and Apothecary gets your Coppers into hand.  All of these make it easier to acquire a Province for Tournament, but with Familiar no the table, the power of Followers is slightly diminished.  Embassy, Golem and Harvest all activate Tunnel.  Border Village is a prime target for Trader.

So do you open Potion, Trader, or Tournament?

[Tables]

I'm looking through Ozle's card list, here are my thoughts. Note I'm not thinking overly carefully, so there's a reasonable chance I'll miss things.

Thieves!:
Thief, Money Lender, Cutpurse, Festival, Lighthouse, Loan, Village, Market, Masquerade, Expand

Looks like an okay, moneyish set. I guess the theme is more thematic than trying to make thief good here (there's too much virtual money for that.

Gardens:
Garden, Bureaucrat, Talisman, Workers village, Warehouse, Adventurer, Cellar, Woodcutter, Hoard, City

Some decent Gardens supporters here. I think this would mostly be a Gardens rush type game, as the name suggests, which is fine. I guess you want the story to really highlight Gardens.

Pirates: Pearl Diver, Merchant Ship, Pirate Ship, Lookout, Bazaar, Rabble, Treasure Map, Workshop, Remodel, Chancellor

Pirate Ship could maybe be good here, it's got the stuff to draw into and play multiple times per turn, but no extra buys. The set looks generally okay though, I don't see any obvious cards/combos.

Wharf: Wharf, Fishing Village, Cellar, Council Room, Bank, Market, Chapel, Ironworks, Monument, Thief

Highlight Wharf/Fishing Village, I guess. There's plenty of support to make it do big, bad, scary things as well.

Trade Route: Islands, Gardens, Trade Route, Hoard, Village, Lookout, Sea Hag, Ambassador, Throne Room, Bureaucrat, Colony & Platinum

Yeah, Trade Route could quickly get good with both Islands and Ambassador. This board seems to have some really obvious stuff you want to do, but it's not easy to work out when and how you want to do them. Warlord Bot would probably work here?

Right, that'll do me for now. I think all of these could work as sets, basically.

[dondon151]

I feel like the Gardens rush is not good in the Gardens kingdom. Power up Cities, use Warehouse/Cellar to sift, Hoard for economy, Bureaucrat for a weak attack, and I think an engine will probably do better...

[Tables]

Mmm... I was actually going to say I thought Gardens had a decent counter, but after more thinking decided it wasn't worth mentioning. But looking back you're probably right.

(Although I still think the garden rush is 'good' just not 'best' - it will probably beat most AIs)

[Beyond Awesome]

I'm looking through Ozle's card list, here are my thoughts. Note I'm not thinking overly carefully, so there's a reasonable chance I'll miss things.

Thieves!:
Thief, Money Lender, Cutpurse, Festival, Lighthouse, Loan, Village, Market, Masquerade, Expand

Looks like an okay, moneyish set. I guess the theme is more thematic than trying to make thief good here (there's too much virtual money for that.

Gardens:
Garden, Bureaucrat, Talisman, Workers village, Warehouse, Adventurer, Cellar, Woodcutter, Hoard, City

Some decent Gardens supporters here. I think this would mostly be a Gardens rush type game, as the name suggests, which is fine. I guess you want the story to really highlight Gardens.

Pirates: Pearl Diver, Merchant Ship, Pirate Ship, Lookout, Bazaar, Rabble, Treasure Map, Workshop, Remodel, Chancellor

Pirate Ship could maybe be good here, it's got the stuff to draw into and play multiple times per turn, but no extra buys. The set looks generally okay though, I don't see any obvious cards/combos.

Wharf: Wharf, Fishing Village, Cellar, Council Room, Bank, Market, Chapel, Ironworks, Monument, Thief

Highlight Wharf/Fishing Village, I guess. There's plenty of support to make it do big, bad, scary things as well.

Trade Route: Islands, Gardens, Trade Route, Hoard, Village, Lookout, Sea Hag, Ambassador, Throne Room, Bureaucrat, Colony & Platinum

Yeah, Trade Route could quickly get good with both Islands and Ambassador. This board seems to have some really obvious stuff you want to do, but it's not easy to work out when and how you want to do them. Warlord Bot would probably work here?

Right, that'll do me for now. I think all of these could work as sets, basically.

My thoughts. I feel the first kingdom (thieves) feels a bit straightforward to me. I'm not sure though. Since we are going with Super Pack 1 maybe we can take out Loan or something and add a Conspirator to add just one more strategic option. Although, that might make a Conspirator chain the dominant option.

Gardens: I like this set. I think we can maybe take something out though and add something else to make it a little more unique and not make it scream Gardens. Although, I do like how it has all these strategy choices laid out for you. Maybe we can even throw in a Duke so it becomes a question of whether to go for Duke or Gardens.

Pirates! I like this set. I would replace Chancellor though with something that gives +Buy. With what, I think this set seems fun. I can see a lot of newer players going for either Treasure Map or Pirate Ship strategies. So, I do like this kingdom. It has a nice mix of trap cards and even some engine stuff going on.

Wharf: I love this set! I think other players will as well!

Trade Route! Sea Hag and Ambassador in the same kingdom. Love it. If we can have a bot that can optimally play Ambassador that would be better. I also like Hoard on here since it usually isn't that hot in Colony games, but with Ambassador, I might be wrong here. The only negative I have is that this is a Colony board and we don't have a single five and Hoard is our only $6. I am not sure about that aspect of it.


Anyway, I feel we are off to a good start with these kingdoms. I think we can work with what we have and slightly tweak them to maybe add some Intrigue cards. I also want people to think about puzzle kingdoms maybe for the boss levels, and if that doesn't work out just for some point in the storyline.

Also, if anyone has any story ideas, I would love to hear them.