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[Teproc]

Welcome to Flavorless Mafia !

Mods : Teproc

This game will use the WIFOM setup, as previously used in Legend of Zelda Mafia.

Because I'm a very lazy mod, this game won't have flavor names for town. Mafia will have flavor names because they are needed for this particular setup, but they'll simply be "Mafia Boss", "Mafioso A" and "Mafioso B".

This game won't start before M56 (Futuramafia) is over or very close to the end.

Players
1. Hydrad
2. Egork
3. Ichimaru Gin
4. A Drowned Kernel
5. Joseph2302
6. XerxesPraelor
7. Awaclus
8. Silverspawn
9. faust
10. Witherweaver
11. Seprix
12. Twistedarcher
13. chairs

Spectators : ashersky, pacovf, 2.7, scott_pilgrim

[Teproc]

Basic Mafia Ruleset

The Golden Rule:

Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun!  Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game.

Please read The Civility Pledge before signing up for any mafia game on this site.  If you have not /pledged there, you cannot play.

Excessive personal attacks or uncivil behavior may be dealt with by modifiers or modkills.

Game Summary:

Mafia is a social deduction game.  There is an "informed minority" (the mafia) and an "uninformed majority" (the town).  The mafia know who each other are, and are trying to be the only people left alive.  The town doesn't know who anybody else is, and are trying to find and lynch all of the mafia.  The mafia, to make sure the town doesn't know who they are, must pretend to be town to win.  The mafia usually can kill at night, to help them in being the only ones left alive.

1. General Gameplay and Etiquette:

1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind.  Paraphrasing (for role claims, etc.) is acceptable.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings unless your role PM specifically allows it.  Mafia members may communicate at night and during the confirmation stage.
3. If you have a role with a Night action your choices are due to all mods by the posted deadline (generally 48 hours from Night start during the first few Nights; later Nights may have shorter deadlines).  If we do not receive your PM by the posted deadline you will forfeit your actions.  In case of multiple submissions, the last valid one before the deadline will be used.  If your Night action was mandatory, it will be decided randomly.
4. Roles with Night actions will not be able to submit an action on Night 0 (i.e. during the confirmation stage).
5. Any player with a Night action may instead submit a “No Action” PM to let the Mods know that you do not want to perform your expected action that Night phase.
6. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 24 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.

2. Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:

1. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for a lynch to occur prior to deadline.
2. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate.  Further votes will also be ignored.
3. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until the mods lock the thread; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
4. Days will last 7 days and nights will last 48 hours (with 48 hours night action deadlines). During the night, all players are required to check-in with the mod via PM to confirm that they are still playing. If one player fails to do this, the mod will search for a replacement and won't open the thread before a replacement has been found. If this occurs in later days (see 10. in Miscellaneous), the player who failed to confirm will be modkilled.
5. If the deadline is hit and nobody has a majority of votes, a no lynch will occur and the game will go into night without anyone being lynched.
6. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName.  Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax! Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
7. Please submit vote revocations as either Unvote: PlayerName or Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
8. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
9. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post in the game or in Quicktopics. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent.
10. If the thread is locked, you may not post.  Threads can be locked for various reasons, but no matter what the reason, you may not post.  The mod may forget to lock the thread, but if they say it is locked, it is still locked.
11. Do not edit or delete posts.  We don't want some players having more information than others.  If you want to clarify posts, feel free to double post. Mods will not edit posts for you.
12. In the case of a forced stalemate, the faction that causes the stalemate more than twice consecutively will forfeit.

3. Miscellaneous/Mechanics:

1. Bold, colored text is reserved for the Mods.  No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please PM the Mods privately.  Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mods may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently.  Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed.  These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mods so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players will be issued upon request after 24 hours of no activity.  A prodded player has 48 hours to respond or risks replacement.  A player who has been prodded 2 times is subject to replacement under rule 3.10 without further notice.
6. Please do not discuss ongoing games, it can unintentionally affect the other game.
7. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, which may include modkill(s) if needed.
8. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread.  Treat this game as a commitment.  Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.
9. Players who discover they are too busy to play in a game or want to leave the game for civility issues are not allowed to officially /out in the thread.  A request to /out must only be done via a PM to the moderator.  Please do not use this as a manipulation technique.  (Note players may continue to threaten to /out or imply that they might as long as it does not include an official request).  Requests to /out are final once submitted.  There will be no /outing and then /inning back into the game so make sure that when you /out you have thought it through and really want to do it. Players that can't be replaced will simply be mod-killed.
10. If a player wants to /out, they may be replaced by anyone on D1-N1.  On D2-N2, no one from the speccy may replace the player.  After this, a player who /outs may not be replaced.  It is up to the mod's discretion whether to modkill the player or do something else under these circumstances.

Helpful Links:

Wiki Links:

--Main Wiki Page

--Newbie Guide

--Frequently Asked Questions

--Commonly Used Abbreviations

--Mafia Theory

Forum Links:

--Vacation/Limited Access announcements

--Mafia Lingo/Dictionary

[Teproc]

SETUP

This game will be using WIFOM, a 13-person semi-open setup designed by Archetype and revised by A Drowned Kernel.

The "base" setup is as follows:

3 Mafia:
Mafia Boss: 1-shot Psychotrooper
Mafioso A : Goon A
Mafioso B : Goon B

10 Town:
1-shot Commuting Innocent Child
3-shot Alignment Cop
8 Vanilla Townies

Pregame, 0-5 Modifications will be made to the above setup. Each Modification has a 50% chance of being present. They will alter the setup by adding more power roles to both the Town and the Mafia:

Modification 1:
Mafioso A-> 2-shot Roleblocker
Vanilla Townie -> Doctor

Modification 2:
Mafioso A -> Rolecop
Vanilla Townie -> Town Roleblocker

Modification 3:
Mafioso B -> 2-shot Rolestopper
Vanilla Townie ->Watcher

Modification 4:
Mafioso B -> 1-shot Ninja
Vanilla Townie ->Tracker

Modification 5:
Mafia Boss -> Cop Enabler
Vanilla Townie ->Universal Backup

Here's what the setup looks like when ALL the Modifications are present:

3 Mafia:
Mafia Boss : Cop Enabler and 1-shot Psychotrooper
Mafioso A : Rolecop and 2-shot Roleblocker
Mafioso B: 2-shot Rolestopping and 1-shot Ninja

10 Town:
1-shot Commuting Innocent Child
3-shot Alignment Cop
Tracker
Watcher
Doctor
Roleblocker
Universal Backup
3 Vanilla Townies

Mechanics:
- When players die, only their Flavor Name and Alignment will be revealed.
- Mafia cannot complete the factional kill and use a power in the same night.
- Rolestopping resolves before Town!Roleblocking which resolves before Mafia!Roleblocking

Role Clarifications:
- 1-shot Psychotrooper is an Active power. The night they choose to use it, the Alignment Cop will get the opposite result for their investigation (Scum instead of Town and Town instead of Scum).
- Investigative powers receive "No Result" if there action was blocked in anyway.
- When the Cop Enabler dies, all Alignment Cop Investigations return "No Result"
- Ninja can be used to modify the user's Factional Kill or Rolestopping
- Rolestopping doesn't stop Kills
- The Universal Backup inherits the first Town Power Role that dies. A Town PR with 0-shots left (if they are an X-shot Role) does not count for UB inheritance. If the Innocent Child is the first PR to die, the UB will inherit the 1-Shot Commuter if it hasn't been used.
- Tracker and Watcher receive distinct results for "no action" and "no result"

Natural Action Resolution:
Commuting
Rolestopping
Town!Roleblocking
Scum!Roleblocking
Protecting
Killing
Investigating

[Hydrad]

/in

[EgorK]

/in

[Ichimaru Gin]

/in
whoo!

[ashersky]

/tag

[A Drowned Kernel]

Ah, nostalgia.

/in

[Joseph2302]

Looks good, /in.

[pacovf]

The three mafiosi should obviously be called water, jelly and tofu burger.

[sudgy]

The three mafiosi should obviously be called water, jelly and tofu burger.

Somebody needs to make food mafia.

[Teproc]

The three mafiosi should obviously be called water, jelly and tofu burger.

I'll do it if you /in, how does that sound ?

[XerxesPraelor]

/in

[pacovf]

The three mafiosi should obviously be called water, jelly and tofu burger.

I'll do it if you /in, how does that sound ?

Haha, I am not /in-ing anytime soon, one game is time commitment enough for me. 

[Awaclus]

/in

[silverspawn]

/in, although I'm skeptical about this setup

[faust]

/in, although I'm skeptical about this setup

[Teproc]

What are you skeptical about ?

[Witherweaver]

/in

[faust]

What are you skeptical about ?

I believe scum is slightly overpowered here.

[faust]

What are you skeptical about ?

I believe scum is slightly overpowered here.

Also, the modifications aren't balanced.

[Teproc]

I guess scum is overpowered if no modifications are rolled, but all modifications seem favorable to town to me. Maybe that's a problem, but scum didn't feel overpowered the last two times we ran this. Yeah they won, but both times town screwed a bunch of things up.

[silverspawn]

the modifications... well

Modification 4:
Mafioso B -> 1-shot Ninja
Vanilla Townie ->Tracker

I mean, obviously this isn't balanced, and I can't imagine it's supposed to be. So, I guess it's just meant to be like a lot of modifications -> good for town?

My first mafia game was Zelda which did use this setup with 4 modifications, which I thought was pretty heavily town favored.

So, if that's true, I guess the overall setup with ~2,5 modifications on average is supposed to be balanced, but each individual setup isn't.

[faust]

+1 to what silver said.

[Teproc]

Well you could say the same thing of all the 9++ setups. Every iteration of them isn't balanced, but overall it is. This setup has a wider range I suppose, but I guess I'm fine with that.

[faust]

Well you could say the same thing of all the 9++ setups. Every iteration of them isn't balanced, but overall it is. This setup has a wider range I suppose, but I guess I'm fine with that.

Here I disagree. 9++ setups do their best to make each possible roll balanced. I'm not saying it works 100%, but it works way better than here.

On the "wider range": I mean, imagine you are presented with two games:

1) A normal, balanced game of mafia.
2) flipping a coin

I'd prefer to do 1, and well, the wider the range, the closer the game gets to 2.

[Hydrad]

One thing to keep in mind is that one side is always going to be imbalanced as It will have me on their team. So you should just accept that not all games will be perfectly balanced.

[Teproc]

Right, I agree it's a swingy setup. It's also a fun setup.

I also see very few ways to make it more flatly balanced. If you give more power to town in the vanilla setup, it makes the game downright impossible for scum with too many modifications enabled.

If people thing this is too unbalanced a setup to be a normal game, I won't do it, but I disagree.

[faust]

Right, I agree it's a swingy setup. It's also a fun setup.

I also see very few ways to make it more flatly balanced. If you give more power to town in the vanilla setup, it makes the game downright impossible for scum with too many modifications enabled.

If people thing this is too unbalanced a setup to be a normal game, I won't do it, but I disagree.

Well, an obvious way to make it more balanced (without taking too much out of the setup) would be to ensure there are always 1-4 modifications present (as opposed to 0-5). That way, the most imbalanced scenarios are eliminated.

[Witherweaver]

They can't all be the most balanced Mafia game ever.

[silverspawn]

Right, I agree it's a swingy setup. It's also a fun setup.

I also see very few ways to make it more flatly balanced. If you give more power to town in the vanilla setup, it makes the game downright impossible for scum with too many modifications enabled.

If people thing this is too unbalanced a setup to be a normal game, I won't do it, but I disagree.

well, you can always take scum power away from the base setup and tweak the modifications, though of course I understand that you don't want to make changes now.

You could also do something like, scum chooses how many (random) modifications are present, and they gain a little bit for choosing more.

[Teproc]

That wouldn't work, given that the base setup is skewed towards scum, so you'd need to give them bonuses to the point that it all the possible setups would be unbalanced towards them.

@faust : I'm fine with excluding the "0 modifications" possibility, I guess. I'm not oo fond of excluding the other extreme, if only because I like having the example in the first post to sum everything up.

How likely are those to happen anyway ? I understand they're as likely as any other given setup, but "0 modifications" is much less likely than "3 modifications" ... right ? Did I mention I'm horrible at math ?

[Archetype]

The setup is supposed to be favoring Town.  This is offsetted (or, at least, artempted to be offsetted) by the fact that scum can easily fakeclaim. So, yes, the extremes for modifications cause it to be more "unbalanced". But, since the setup should average 2.5, scum can fakeclaim to push it up to that or call the PRs scum if its too high. I did try to create as much synergy as I could between the different Modifications, and I'll admit that that could be improved, but I think the overall idea of the setup works well enough.

[Joseph2302]

How likely are those to happen anyway ? I understand they're as likely as any other given setup, but "0 modifications" is much less likely than "3 modifications" ... right ? Did I mention I'm horrible at math ?

The chances of 0 or 5 modifications is 1/32, 1 or 4 modifications is 5/32, 2 or 3 modifications is 10/32=5/16. So it's 10 times more likely to get 3 modifications than 0.

[faust]

The setup is supposed to be favoring Town.  This is offsetted (or, at least, artempted to be offsetted) by the fact that scum can easily fakeclaim. So, yes, the extremes for modifications cause it to be more "unbalanced". But, since the setup should average 2.5, scum can fakeclaim to push it up to that or call the PRs scum if its too high. I did try to create as much synergy as I could between the different Modifications, and I'll admit that that could be improved, but I think the overall idea of the setup works well enough.

Well, I think things don't quite work out that way. As it is, if there are few modifications, scum is stronger AND has fakeclaims, if there are a lot of modifications, town is stronger AND scum is deprived of fakeclaims. Things could be more interesting if the mods actually made scum stronger.

[Witherweaver]

Sure, but town doesn't know this.  As far as town knows, all claims are safe fakeclaims. 

[Seprix]

I'll join.
/in

[A Drowned Kernel]

As I've said elsewhere, the powers do seem like they favored town, but it's not like scum didn't win this both times (the first time flawlessly). Yeah that's a small sample size, but it's something to consider.

[silverspawn]

As I've said elsewhere, the powers do seem like they favored town, but it's not like scum didn't win this both times (the first time flawlessly). Yeah that's a small sample size, but it's something to consider.

I didn't play in the first one, but in zelda we lynched tracker and watcher day 1 and 2, and our roleblocker died N4.

Also, we caught the first scum because I RB'd him and made a no-kill happen, and the second scum because a team mate rolestopped him (and he was watched or something). so that's 2/2 scum caught just by powers.

The fact that that game ended up being close is actually what made me start thinking that the setup might be unfair.

[Witherweaver]

As I've said elsewhere, the powers do seem like they favored town, but it's not like scum didn't win this both times (the first time flawlessly). Yeah that's a small sample size, but it's something to consider.

I didn't play in the first one, but in zelda we lynched tracker and watcher day 1 and 2, and our roleblocker died N4.

Also, we caught the first scum because I RB'd him and made a no-kill happen, and the second scum because a team mate rolestopped him (and he was watched or something). so that's 2/2 scum caught just by powers.

The fact that that game ended up being close is actually what made me start thinking that the setup might be unfair.

It was Copped, and I was the Cop.  Powers did end up working out well there, but someone lurked his way through the game and won it for scum.....

[Twistedarcher]

/in

edit: But will be V/LA over the weekend. Feel free to start without me though, I'll catch up. Scumbuddies, make sure you post stuff for me to read in our qt

[Teproc]

Almost full already huh ?

Just to be clear : this doesn't change the fact that this won't start before M56 is over or very close to over.

Also, I won't make any changes to the setup as it is. It's not the most balanced setup there is, but I don't think there's anything gamebreaking there.

[pacovf]

The three mafiosi should obviously be called water, jelly and tofu burger.

I'll do it if you /in, how does that sound ?

Ah well... anything else you are willing to throw in the offer?

[Teproc]

The three mafiosi should obviously be called water, jelly and tofu burger.

I'll do it if you /in, how does that sound ?

Ah well... anything else you are willing to throw in the offer?

Clearly this is a seller's market, game is almost full when it won't start before a week at least !

In other words : no . 

[pacovf]

Damn. I knew I should have haggled for the spot back then!

...so that I could sell it back to taggers a couple of days before gamestart for a dozen respect or so. Economics!


I still can't /in, though, 13 players is too much for me in my current situation... If this still hasn't filled in two weeks, we'll talk again.

[ashersky]

I still can't /in, though, 13 players is too much for me in my current situation... If this still hasn't filled in two weeks, we'll talk again.

Dune 2 is only ten players...and you love setup theory.

[pacovf]

Same thing, I shouldn't /in anything before two weeks time, RMM21 was already a bit irresponsible on my part...

[chairs]

THIS IS MY HAMMER

/in

[faust]

So when will this start? Futuramafia is going to end/go into N4 in a couple of days, will we start somewhere around this time?

[Teproc]

I plan on sending PMs once Futuramafia goes into night 4 (or ends), so presumably sometime in the middle on next week.

[Teproc]

Alright, unless someone playing in Futuramafia objects, I'll send PMs tomorrow.

[Hydrad]

yay.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm okay with that.

[scott_pilgrim]

/tag

[2.71828.....]

/tag

[Hydrad]

Its tomorrow here. Where are my PM's.

Teproc is so unreliable.

[Teproc]

THREAD LOCKED

[Teproc]

Nights last 48 hours, so the game will start at 8AM, February 5 (forum time). Please confirm by responding to your role PM or by posting in you QT.

About the deadlines : a reminder that this game has 7-day deadlines. I will likely push the deadline for day 1 back a few hours for it to be more practical though (feel free to PM me on the subject).

[Teproc]

Still missing a confirmation, sorry about the delay.

[Teproc]

Day 1 starts now !

Egork is the Innocent Child

Vote Count 1.0:

Not Voting (13): Egork, Hydrad, Ichimaru Gin, A Drowned Kernel, Joseph2302, XerxesPraelor, Awaclus, silverspawn, faust, Witherweaver, Seprix, Twistedarcher, chairs

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 12:00 a.m. on February 12, 2015. I've chosen to push it back a bit to make it more manageable for people on the East Coast, can't do much for you if you're on the West cost, sorry.

[Witherweaver]

Awesome, that's like the best choice for IC.

Also, who's up for flavor claim?

[silverspawn]

Awesome, that's like the best choice for IC.

Also, who's up for flavor claim?

FUNNY!

vote: WW. most jokes are lies, so they are best avoided.

[Witherweaver]

Awesome, that's like the best choice for IC.

Also, who's up for flavor claim?

FUNNY!

vote: WW. most jokes are lies, so they are best avoided.

Clearly you're afraid; your flavor must be obvscum.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I wonder if Teproc realized that he was starting this game almost exactly a year after Super Mario Bros started.

vote: WW for having posted before me.

[chairs]

vote: Egork for being so obvscum that the mod fakeclaims IC for him.

[XerxesPraelor]

vote: silverspawn

I was going to make that joke, but ww beat me to it. He's towny, therefore you're scummy for voting him.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Voting for the IC, even as a joke during RVS, is kind of scummy. People are going to come back and look at these interactions, and voting for the IC is completely empty. So vote: chairs (for reals)

[Teproc]

Vote Count 1.1:

Witherweaver (1): silverspawn
Egork (1): chairs
silverspawn (1): XerxesPraelor
chairs (1): A Drowned Kernel

Not Voting (9): Egork, Hydrad, Ichimaru Gin, Joseph2302, Awaclus, faust, Witherweaver, Seprix, Twistedarcher

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 12:00 a.m. on February 12, 2015.

[Joseph2302]

I think everyone is scummy but me!

[Witherweaver]

I think everyone is scummy but me!

Vote: Joseph

[Twistedarcher]

Voting for the IC, even as a joke during RVS, is kind of scummy. People are going to come back and look at these interactions, and voting for the IC is completely empty. So vote: chairs (for reals)

It's just RVS to me. If anything i think scum would be slightly slightly more afraid to place that vote (but it's so slight).

[Witherweaver]

Voting for the IC, even as a joke during RVS, is kind of scummy. People are going to come back and look at these interactions, and voting for the IC is completely empty. So vote: chairs (for reals)

It's just RVS to me. If anything i think scum would be slightly slightly more afraid to place that vote (but it's so slight).

There's enough WIFOM there that I would consider it completely null.  ADK does have a point that it is a completely zero-content thing to do, but so is saying "Hai guyz!".

[EgorK]

Vote: chairs OMGUS

[Awaclus]

Hai guyz!

[Awaclus]

Vote: XP

[Joseph2302]

Hai guyz!

Vote: Awaclus. This post seems super-scummy

[Seprix]

And so we kick off! First day makes me laugh. Everyone's all silly and happy, and then the first night happens.

I really don't like voting day 1, but maybe we'll get a lucky hit.

[chairs]

unvote I've had my fun poke at Egork, Now time to vote: Joseph2302 because he thinks saying hi is scummy.

[Witherweaver]

unvote I've had my fun poke at Egork, Now time to vote: Joseph2302 because he thinks saying hi is scummy.

It's all fun and games until someone lynches the IC.

[Awaclus]

Vote: Joseph because OMGUS except I actually like my vote on XP.

[Joseph2302]

And so we kick off! First day makes me laugh. Everyone's all silly and happy, and then the first night happens.

I really don't like voting day 1, but maybe we'll get a lucky hit.

Vote: Seprix because you don't think random voting is fun.

unvote I've had my fun poke at Egork, Now time to vote: Joseph2302 because he thinks saying hi is scummy.

Maybe I am scummy, who knows? Except for my scum partners, no-one does.

[Awaclus]

Maybe I am scummy, who knows? Except for my scum partners, no-one does.

So you admit that you have scum partners? vote: joseph after all

[Ichimaru Gin]

And.....I'm in Mafia again. vote: Seprix cause I've never played with you before.

[Awaclus]

And.....I'm in Mafia again. vote: Seprix cause I've never played with you before.

You're in mafia too? Great, now we just need the remaining scum to tell is who they are and this is pretty much a won game!

[silverspawn]

vote: Joseph, stop claiming to be scum. I don't like it.

@TA: I hope you have a nice game for once

[Witherweaver]

Vote: Silverspawn for buddying!

[silverspawn]

Vote: Silverspawn for buddying!

oh no my top town read votes for me </3

[silverspawn]

no-one vote for WW!

[Witherweaver]

Doublevote: Silverspawn for further buddying and for previously voting for his top town read.

[silverspawn]

Doublevote: Silverspawn for further buddying and for previously voting for his top town read.

everything goes according to plan.

[silverspawn]

for realies though, vote: WW for dodging a ridiculous argument. a clear scum tell.

[Witherweaver]

for realies though, vote: WW for dodging a ridiculous argument. a clear scum tell.

What argument?

[Seprix]

WW and Silverspawn appear to be Duchy Dancing.

vote: WilverWawn

So good at this game. :p

[XerxesPraelor]

Vote: Joseph because OMGUS except I actually like my vote on XP.

Townread on Awalcus. I guess it didn't work.

[XerxesPraelor]

Sheep: vote: chairs

[silverspawn]

for realies though, vote: WW for dodging a ridiculous argument. a clear scum tell.

What argument?

the argument that we were just having. town!you would have responded somehow.

[XerxesPraelor]

Vote: Joseph because OMGUS except I actually like my vote on XP.

Townread on Awalcus. I guess it didn't work.

This seriously makes him an IC to me. Actual scumhunting FTW!

[Joseph2302]

WW and Silverspawn appear to be Duchy Dancing.

vote: WilverWawn

So good at this game. :p

Oh great, there's this name combining thing going again.

And.....I'm in Mafia again. vote: Seprix cause I've never played with you before.

You're in mafia too? Great, now we just need the remaining scum to tell is who they are and this is pretty much a won game!

Well then, you need to confess, then they've got the scumteam done.

vote: Joseph, stop claiming to be scum. I don't like it.

It gets the game out of RVs quicker, which is good.

[Witherweaver]

for realies though, vote: WW for dodging a ridiculous argument. a clear scum tell.

What argument?

the argument that we were just having. town!you would have responded somehow.

We were having an argument?

[silverspawn]

for realies though, vote: WW for dodging a ridiculous argument. a clear scum tell.

What argument?

the argument that we were just having. town!you would have responded somehow.

We were having an argument?

YES!!

[Witherweaver]

for realies though, vote: WW for dodging a ridiculous argument. a clear scum tell.

What argument?

the argument that we were just having. town!you would have responded somehow.

We were having an argument?

YES!!

Sorry I didn't know.

[Joseph2302]

for realies though, vote: WW for dodging a ridiculous argument. a clear scum tell.

What argument?

the argument that we were just having. town!you would have responded somehow.

We were having an argument?

YES!!

Sorry I didn't know.

Obvious scum partners?

[Witherweaver]

for realies though, vote: WW for dodging a ridiculous argument. a clear scum tell.

What argument?

the argument that we were just having. town!you would have responded somehow.

We were having an argument?

YES!!

Sorry I didn't know.

Obvious scum partners?

It's not obvious to me!

[Teproc]

Vote Count 1.2:

chairs (3): A Drowned Kernel, Egork, XerxesPraelor
Joseph2302 (2): chairs, Awaclus
Seprix (2): Joseph2302, Ichimaru Gin
silverspawn (1): Witherweaver
Witherweaver (1): silverspawn

Not Voting (4): Hydrad, faust, Seprix, Twistedarcher

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 12:00 a.m. on February 12, 2015.

[faust]

So this started, huh? I should keep better track of what I sign up for... soon I might be in 3 games at once and mod one.

Why has noone voted ADK yet? Vote: ADK

[Hydrad]

Wooooooo.

Vote: Hydrad who does he think he is.

[silverspawn]

the scumteam is WW / Hydrad / Joseph. Game solved.

[Joseph2302]

Day 1 ends at 12:00 a.m. on February 12, 2015.

Just to check, that's 12 noon, not 12 midnight?

Also, I'm voting Seprix apparently, that doesn't make sense, since ss and WW are scum. So, Vote: WW.

[Witherweaver]

So this started, huh? I should keep better track of what I sign up for... soon I might be in 3 games at once and mod one.

Why has noone voted ADK yet? Vote: ADK

Voting early on intuition tends to be a town!ADK trait.  Not that hard to replicate, but still, I don't think this was particularly scummy for him.

[Witherweaver]

Day 1 ends at 12:00 a.m. on February 12, 2015.

Just to check, that's 12 noon, not 12 midnight?

Also, I'm voting Seprix apparently, that doesn't make sense, since ss and WW are scum. So, Vote: WW.

Man, how many people am I on scum teams with!?

[Hydrad]

Scum team is probably WW/WW/WW

vote: WW

[Teproc]

Day 1 ends at 12:00 a.m. on February 12, 2015.

Just to check, that's 12 noon, not 12 midnight?

Correct.

[Witherweaver]

Scum team is probably WW/WW/WW

vote: WW

That's a good call.  I'd vote for one of those other WW's, but I'm afraid it would count against me.

[Ichimaru Gin]

There's altogether too much joking going on here. First times funny, second times scummy, third times a lynching!

phone post.

[Awaclus]

There's altogether too much joking going on here. First times funny, second times scummy, third times a lynching!

phone post.

Phone posting is a scum tell.

[Hydrad]

Oh TA is in this game.

Vote: TA

[faust]

So this started, huh? I should keep better track of what I sign up for... soon I might be in 3 games at once and mod one.

Why has noone voted ADK yet? Vote: ADK

Voting early on intuition tends to be a town!ADK trait.  Not that hard to replicate, but still, I don't think this was particularly scummy for him.
[/quote

White knighting already? Vote: WW

[faust]

Quoting is hard.

So this started, huh? I should keep better track of what I sign up for... soon I might be in 3 games at once and mod one.

Why has noone voted ADK yet? Vote: ADK

Voting early on intuition tends to be a town!ADK trait.  Not that hard to replicate, but still, I don't think this was particularly scummy for him.

White knighting already? Vote: WW

[Seprix]

vote: everyone because stranger danger!

[Witherweaver]

Quoting is hard.

So this started, huh? I should keep better track of what I sign up for... soon I might be in 3 games at once and mod one.

Why has noone voted ADK yet? Vote: ADK

Voting early on intuition tends to be a town!ADK trait.  Not that hard to replicate, but still, I don't think this was particularly scummy for him.

White knighting already? Vote: WW

It's truth though. 

But, it probably means he's scum.  My record for defending scum is off the charts in recent games. 

[A Drowned Kernel]

Vote: Joseph because OMGUS except I actually like my vote on XP.

Townread on Awalcus. I guess it didn't work.

This seriously makes him an IC to me. Actual scumhunting FTW!

vote: XP for buddying.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Wooooooo.

Vote: Hydrad who does he think he is.

Oh god vote: Hydrad vote: Hydrad vote: Hydrad vote: Hydrad

[A Drowned Kernel]

scum reads so far: Hydrad, XP, possibly WW but man am I biased there. And joseph probably too.

[Ichimaru Gin]

There's altogether too much joking going on here. First times funny, second times scummy, third times a lynching!

phone post.

Phone posting is a scum tell.

I'm going to assume this is 100% serious since obviously no one would respond to an admonishment about jokes with a joke. It's fun. I like making jokes. However, I really think they can hurt town. Self-voting for laughs...it can throw things off. I joked around with WW about being scumpartners in Musical Mafia--and that was used against me in a big way. Especially when everyone starts making jokes it makes it easy for scum to hide by doing the same thing.

PPE: 3
I just might sheep you on that.

[A Drowned Kernel]

/end RVS next person to make an empty vote should get auto-lynched.

[Joseph2302]

/end RVS next person to make an empty vote should get auto-lynched.

RVS are kind of silly, but on the other hand it helps scum like me. Come on you scum team!

[Ichimaru Gin]

vote: Joseph

[Joseph2302]

/end RVS next person to make an empty vote should get auto-lynched.

vote: Joseph

Does this count as an empty vote? Or am I just getting a scummy vibe of everyone (including myself)?

[A Drowned Kernel]

/end RVS next person to make an empty vote should get auto-lynched.

RVS are kind of silly, but on the other hand it helps scum like me. Come on you scum team!

vote: Joseph
protip: if you're playing in a mafia game and want me to vote for you, make a lot of "lol I'm scum jk" posts, they make 100% sure that you're scum.

[Ichimaru Gin]

/end RVS next person to make an empty vote should get auto-lynched.

vote: Joseph

Does this count as an empty vote? Or am I just getting a scummy vibe of everyone (including myself)?

It's not an empty vote. I don't think it's funny claiming scum anymore.

PPE: 1

[Joseph2302]

/end RVS next person to make an empty vote should get auto-lynched.

RVS are kind of silly, but on the other hand it helps scum like me. Come on you scum team!

vote: Joseph
protip: if you're playing in a mafia game and want me to vote for you, make a lot of "lol I'm scum jk" posts, they make 100% sure that you're scum.

Well in every game I play, everyone seems to quickly assume I'm scummy anyway, regardless of whether I am or not. So this way kind of gets you to the "Joseph is scummy" point earlier, and then we can do something else. So, now I've told everyone I'm scummy, we can look at other people who might actually be scummy.

[Awaclus]

Well in every game I play, everyone seems to quickly assume I'm scummy anyway, regardless of whether I am or not. So this way kind of gets you to the "Joseph is scummy" point earlier, and then we can do something else. So, now I've told everyone I'm scummy, we can look at other people who might actually be scummy.

But you usually end up being scum. I don't remember if I'm still voting for you, vote: Joseph just to make sure.

[EgorK]

Vote count please?

[A Drowned Kernel]

joseph has four people voting for him, so you won't be hammering when you vote.

[Twistedarcher]

I'm slightly more inclined to believe that Joseph is town at this point.

[Joseph2302]

joseph has four people voting for him, so you won't be hammering when you vote.

Getting a sense of deja vu from the last game I played. Next you'll be putting me on L-1 and trying to get me to claim my role already . This is a bad idea, so don't so it. Might already be voting you, but if not, Vote: ADK. Stop trying to get people to vote for me.

I'm slightly more inclined to believe that Joseph is town at this point.

Finally, someone talking sense!

[Witherweaver]

There's altogether too much joking going on here. First times funny, second times scummy, third times a lynching!

phone post.

Phone posting is a scum tell.

I'm going to assume this is 100% serious since obviously no one would respond to an admonishment about jokes with a joke. It's fun. I like making jokes. However, I really think they can hurt town. Self-voting for laughs...it can throw things off. I joked around with WW about being scumpartners in Musical Mafia--and that was used against me in a big way. Especially when everyone starts making jokes it makes it easy for scum to hide by doing the same thing.

PPE: 3
I just might sheep you on that.

It was especially awesome in Musical Mafia since I was scum, but you got lynched for it. 

[Ichimaru Gin]

I won't be forgetting that any time soon.

[A Drowned Kernel]

joseph has four people voting for him, so you won't be hammering when you vote.

Getting a sense of deja vu from the last game I played. Next you'll be putting me on L-1 and trying to get me to claim my role already . This is a bad idea, so don't so it. Might already be voting you, but if not, Vote: ADK. Stop trying to get people to vote for me.

I'm slightly more inclined to believe that Joseph is town at this point.

Finally, someone talking sense!

The last game you played? You mean where you scum and fakeclaimed Tracker? And what's so scummy about trying to get people to vote for someone that I legitimately think is scum?

[Twistedarcher]

joseph has four people voting for him, so you won't be hammering when you vote.

Getting a sense of deja vu from the last game I played. Next you'll be putting me on L-1 and trying to get me to claim my role already . This is a bad idea, so don't so it. Might already be voting you, but if not, Vote: ADK. Stop trying to get people to vote for me.

I'm slightly more inclined to believe that Joseph is town at this point.

Finally, someone talking sense!

Joseph, assuming you're town, why would ADK be trying to get you lynched D1?

Do you,
A) Think that it's a scum move from ADK, rather than a town one? If yes, please explain why.
B) If you think it's a scum move, why do you think it benefits him to push your wagon this early? It's obviously a pretty flimsy wagon that you're not getting lynched on for the time being.

[Seprix]

I don't want to make the mistake of hammering Joseph, because that's apparently a scum tell, but at the same time I'm pretty skeptical here. He could be scum, and pulling a neat trick. I don't think I will vote for Joseph yet without more reason, but if you're going to be dumb enough to admit to being scum, you should be lynched.

[A Drowned Kernel]

It's not about "admitting" that he's scum, it's clearly meant to be taken as a joke. But I think that scum is more likely to joke about being scum because a) they're nervous and know that they're guilty and b) it's a way to deflect suspicion from you. I especially think that someone who continues to joke about being scum after being voted for scum is likely panicking, and hoping that the whole thing blows over. The fact that he then reverts to OMGUS'ing me is just icing on the cake.

[Seprix]

I think I will not take action against Joseph, nor will I draw a conclusion. At the same time, I'm not entirely sure I buy his whole joke thing. Comedy gold is not worth trashing your chances at Mafia.

Get it...? Because Market Square? No..?





Aw.

[Hydrad]

Joseph I feel like you enjoy playing this game on hard mode all the time and make it as hard as you can to survive in day 1.

At this point I think Joseph is townyish though? If any other player said that I think they would be scummy. But for him it sounds null.

[Witherweaver]

Why are we lynching Joseph?

[Ichimaru Gin]

I'm not sure how much Joseph's playstyle is similar to your own. I've been in like 1 game with him I think. Why are you trying to give him a free pass here? I agree with ADK's assessment so far.
PPE: 1

[Hydrad]

Why are we lynching Joseph?

he was joking a bunch about being scum.

[Witherweaver]

Why are we lynching Joseph?

he was joking a bunch about being scum.

Eh, that's pretty weak.

[chairs]

Why are we lynching Joseph?

he was joking a bunch about being scum.

Eh, that's pretty weak.

He was joking a bunch about being scum AND HAS DONE SO IN THE PAST WHILE BEING SCUM.

Relevant text in caps.

[Witherweaver]

Ah, well that's a good point.  Though not 100% convincing.  I've done things as town that I've done before as scum specifically to protect myself against potential arguments like that in the future.

[XerxesPraelor]

vote: ADK

For trying to manipulate me to give him a town read. This is a serious but uncertain vote.

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: ADK

For trying to manipulate me to give him a town read. This is a serious but uncertain vote.

I'm not sure I understand that. Where was I manipulating you?

[Teproc]

Vote Count 1.3:

Joseph2302 (4): chairs, Awaclus, Ichimaru Gin, A Drowned Kernel
Witherweaver (2): silverspawn, faust
A Drowned Kernel (2): Joseph2302, XerxesPraelor
chairs (1): Egork
silverspawn (1): Witherweaver
Twistedarcher (1): Hydrad

Not Voting (2): Seprix, Twistedarcher

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 12:00 a.m. on February 12, 2015.

[faust]

I somehow doubt Joseph would repeat his performance from his last scum game here if he really was scum. That said, the whole "I'm scum haha" thing is annoying. I understand Joseph; I feel like he's been a major suspect D1 in every game I played with him, whether deserved or not, that can be frustrating. I feel a bit more townish on him.

On the other hand, I don't think we can really blame people for jumping the wagon. It's a null tell for me.

[faust]

I don't want to make the mistake of hammering Joseph, because that's apparently a scum tell, but at the same time I'm pretty skeptical here. He could be scum, and pulling a neat trick. I don't think I will vote for Joseph yet without more reason, but if you're going to be dumb enough to admit to being scum, you should be lynched.

This makes me think Seprix is town. I don't think scum would talk that openly about trying to avoid a scum tell.

[EgorK]

Carry on. I still need to think about this

[Joseph2302]

Ah, well that's a good point.  Though not 100% convincing.  I've done things as town that I've done before as scum specifically to protect myself against potential arguments like that in the future.

I somehow doubt Joseph would repeat his performance from his last scum game here if he really was scum. That said, the whole "I'm scum haha" thing is annoying. I understand Joseph; I feel like he's been a major suspect D1 in every game I played with him, whether deserved or not, that can be frustrating. I feel a bit more townish on him.

On the other hand, I don't think we can really blame people for jumping the wagon. It's a null tell for me.

I agree with all of this, I've been accused of scum early in every game I've played, and claiming scum doesn't actually tell much, since it could be considered towny or scummy. Actually, I do think wagons are good, and my wagon does kind of makes sense, and isn't really at all dangerous, so Unvote: ADK. If I wanted to vote for someone as an OMGUS, then I have 4 people to vote for, and none of them have actually been scummy.

[Joseph2302]

Also, I like getting us out of RVS, and it kind of feels that doing this achieves that aim, so it's not all bad.

[XerxesPraelor]

vote: ADK

For trying to manipulate me to give him a town read. This is a serious but uncertain vote.

I'm not sure I understand that. Where was I manipulating you?

I gave Awalcus town points for somethings, then you immediately did the exact same things (voting me, encouraging scumhunting)

[Awaclus]

claiming scum doesn't actually tell much, since it could be considered towny or scummy.

I don't see how it can be considered towny.

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: ADK

For trying to manipulate me to give him a town read. This is a serious but uncertain vote.

I'm not sure I understand that. Where was I manipulating you?

I gave Awalcus town points for somethings, then you immediately did the exact same things (voting me, encouraging scumhunting)

Man, I was scumhunting before you even posted. It's not all about you.

[Witherweaver]

vote: ADK

For trying to manipulate me to give him a town read. This is a serious but uncertain vote.

I'm not sure I understand that. Where was I manipulating you?

I gave Awalcus town points for somethings, then you immediately did the exact same things (voting me, encouraging scumhunting)

Man, I was scumhunting before you even posted. It's not all about you.

ADK was scumhunting before it was cool.

Town read on XP.

[Twistedarcher]

Also, I like getting us out of RVS, and it kind of feels that doing this achieves that aim, so it's not all bad.

Can you answer 139, please?

[Joseph2302]

Also, I like getting us out of RVS, and it kind of feels that doing this achieves that aim, so it's not all bad.

Can you answer 139, please?

Yes, I can.

Do you,
A) Think that it's a scum move from ADK, rather than a town one? If yes, please explain why.
B) If you think it's a scum move, why do you think it benefits him to push your wagon this early? It's obviously a pretty flimsy wagon that you're not getting lynched on for the time being.

A) I think it could be a scum move, or equally legitimately a town move. I mean wagons are good until the point they're really bad, when someone is on L-1, like last time I played. I don't think it was necessary as town to push me to L-2 after about 7 hours of gametime, this would is a tiny bit scummy to me.
B) Because if he stays on 1 wagon and pushes it, this is generally seen as more towny than jumping between wagons, even in RVS stage of the game.

Actually, I do think wagons are good, and my wagon does kind of makes sense, and isn't really at all dangerous, so Unvote: ADK. If I wanted to vote for someone as an OMGUS, then I have 4 people to vote for, and none of them have actually been scummy.

So I've basically decided this reasoning wasn't great, hence my unvote.

[XerxesPraelor]

It's definitely not a viable wagon, but it could turn into one from people going "well, my vote wasn't that serious, but looking at his reaction, I'm happy with my vote." And then since joseph is a relatively easy lynch scum could go along with it without looking scummy.

[Witherweaver]

It's definitely not a viable wagon, but it could turn into one from people going "well, my vote wasn't that serious, but looking at his reaction, I'm happy with my vote." And then since joseph is a relatively easy lynch scum could go along with it without looking scummy.

I agree with this point.  However, as Joseph is a viable mislynch, I don't see a big reason for scum to jump on it right away.  They may as well wait; they don't really need to do any work here.

I don't have any feeling one way or another towards Joseph.

[silverspawn]

is joseph even that easy of a mislynch? I think most of the time when we lynched him he was scum.

[Joseph2302]

is joseph even that easy of a mislynch? I think most of the time when we lynched him he was scum.

I've been lynched twice, and both times as scum. I was town in M53, and survived somehow. But this time it's different, I'm not scum. But so far, Day 1 has been pretty much the same as last game.

Let's discuss other possibilities for scum people.

[silverspawn]

is joseph even that easy of a mislynch? I think most of the time when we lynched him he was scum.

I've been lynched twice, and both times as scum. I was town in M53, and survived somehow. But this time it's different, I'm not scum. But so far, Day 1 has been pretty much the same as last game.

Let's discuss other possibilities for scum people.

if you tell me the names of your partners, we can discuss them.

[Joseph2302]

is joseph even that easy of a mislynch? I think most of the time when we lynched him he was scum.

I've been lynched twice, and both times as scum. I was town in M53, and survived somehow. But this time it's different, I'm not scum. But so far, Day 1 has been pretty much the same as last game.

Let's discuss other possibilities for scum people.

if you tell me the names of your partners, we can discuss them.

Okay, one of them is you.

[Seprix]

Ah, well that's a good point.  Though not 100% convincing.  I've done things as town that I've done before as scum specifically to protect myself against potential arguments like that in the future.

I somehow doubt Joseph would repeat his performance from his last scum game here if he really was scum. That said, the whole "I'm scum haha" thing is annoying. I understand Joseph; I feel like he's been a major suspect D1 in every game I played with him, whether deserved or not, that can be frustrating. I feel a bit more townish on him.

On the other hand, I don't think we can really blame people for jumping the wagon. It's a null tell for me.

I agree with all of this, I've been accused of scum early in every game I've played, and claiming scum doesn't actually tell much, since it could be considered towny or scummy. Actually, I do think wagons are good, and my wagon does kind of makes sense, and isn't really at all dangerous, so Unvote: ADK. If I wanted to vote for someone as an OMGUS, then I have 4 people to vote for, and none of them have actually been scummy.

I thought wagons were bad?

[silverspawn]

is joseph even that easy of a mislynch? I think most of the time when we lynched him he was scum.

I've been lynched twice, and both times as scum. I was town in M53, and survived somehow. But this time it's different, I'm not scum. But so far, Day 1 has been pretty much the same as last game.

Let's discuss other possibilities for scum people.

if you tell me the names of your partners, we can discuss them.

Okay, one of them is you.

lying isn't good. try something else.

[Joseph2302]

is joseph even that easy of a mislynch? I think most of the time when we lynched him he was scum.

I've been lynched twice, and both times as scum. I was town in M53, and survived somehow. But this time it's different, I'm not scum. But so far, Day 1 has been pretty much the same as last game.

Let's discuss other possibilities for scum people.

if you tell me the names of your partners, we can discuss them.

Okay, one of them is you.

lying isn't good. try something else.

Let me check the Mafia QT, I haven't read who my scum partners are.

No seriously, who do people think are scummy, other than me? Because I don't want us ending up like last game I played (M56?), where everyone wanted to lynch me, then didn't, and the last 24 hours was chaotic, and loads of people claimed PRs, which could only have helped scum.

[silverspawn]

well, WW is probably scum.

[Awaclus]

Let me check the Mafia QT, I haven't read who my scum partners are.

No seriously, who do people think are scummy, other than me? Because I don't want us ending up like last game I played (M56?), where everyone wanted to lynch me, then didn't, and the last 24 hours was chaotic, and loads of people claimed PRs, which could only have helped scum.

Well that's because you claimed PR when you weren't one.

But in any case, I think XP has been scummy, but not too much. Anyone else doesn't really stand out in a scummy way to me.

[Awaclus]

Oh and silverspawn is scummy too because of that one game where he was scum.

[silverspawn]

Oh and silverspawn is scummy too because of that one game where he was scum.

[Witherweaver]

well, WW is probably scum.

With probability 0.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I'm still happy with where my vote is. This game has gotten off to such an odd start though...it's strange. I don't really like the pseudo-OMGUS directed at silver. A lot of people seem to be defending Joseph right now.

[A Drowned Kernel]

It could be a viable wagon if more people joined. Seriously, he's using as an argument against voting for him "remember that game where I got to L-1 super quickly and fakeclaimed and it screwed things up? You don't want that happening again, do you?"

[chairs]

am I voting Joseph yet?

vote: Joseph

[Joseph2302]

It could be a viable wagon if more people joined. Seriously, he's using as an argument against voting for him "remember that game where I got to L-1 super quickly and fakeclaimed and it screwed things up? You don't want that happening again, do you?"

I'm saying we should try to consider everyone, not just me. There seems to be a tendency on here to assume I'm scum- I guess I don't help this by claiming scum. But I think it's beneficial to look at other candidates too for scum.

PPE:1

[Ichimaru Gin]

From experience. Getting early, sincere suspicion on you as scum is very frustrating. I'm fairly certain he wasn't banking on people finding him scummy this soon into the game. And so far, his reactions seem to fit pretty well with him being frustrated scum.

PPE: 1

[Witherweaver]

From experience. Getting early, sincere suspicion on you as scum is very frustrating. I'm fairly certain he wasn't banking on people finding him scummy this soon into the game. And so far, his reactions seem to fit pretty well with him being frustrated scum.

PPE: 1

I like it, let's ramp up wagons on everyone! 

Vote: Seprix

[silverspawn]

no... vote: Joseph

L-2

[A Drowned Kernel]

At this point I think I'd advocate lynching through a claim.

[Joseph2302]

no... vote: Joseph

L-2

No, don't vote Joseph, he's innocent. Let's do a different wagon, I like Vote: Seprix, primarily because it's a wagon that isn't me!

[Witherweaver]

no... vote: Joseph

L-2

No, don't vote Joseph, he's innocent. Let's do a different wagon, I like Vote: Seprix, primarily because it's a wagon that isn't me!

That'll ease the scumreads.

[Teproc]

Vote Count 1.4:

Joseph2302 (5): chairs, Awaclus, Ichimaru Gin, A Drowned Kernel, silverspawn
Seprix (2): Witherweaver, Joseph2302
Witherweaver (1): faust
A Drowned Kernel (1): XerxesPraelor
chairs (1): Egork
Twistedarcher (1): Hydrad

Not Voting (2): Seprix, Twistedarcher

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 12:00 a.m. on February 12, 2015.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I just don't see Joseph trying here at all. He claims scum. And how does he expect to avert people's scumreads on him for all of his "joking"? By doing the same thing and purposefully acting scummy--he's embracing it. This is our lynch today people.

[Joseph2302]

I just don't see Joseph trying here at all. He claims scum. And how does he expect to avert people's scumreads on him for all of his "joking"? By doing the same thing and purposefully acting scummy--he's embracing it. This is our lynch today people.

I'm done with claiming scum, I'm not scum guys. I voted Seprix to try to start an alternative wagon. I'm not feeling a scum vibe on anyone who's posted a lot, including those trying to lynch me, so I'm now also looking elsewhere, to the people with fewer posts.

[silverspawn]

so, faust. you can read joseph. is he scum?

[Ichimaru Gin]

so, faust. you can read joseph. is he scum?

Why is faust better at reading Joseph than anyone else? Is this related to a game I missed?

[EgorK]

All right, I am convinced for the moment

Vote: Joseph. This is L-1. If anyone hammer right away here this is autolynch next day

[Witherweaver]

Yeah this is a pretty awful case against Joseph.  Nothing there indicates town or scum.

[Witherweaver]

so, faust. you can read joseph. is he scum?

Why is faust better at reading Joseph than anyone else? Is this related to a game I missed?

Because he's 3/3.

[Witherweaver]

And I'm 0/3.

[silverspawn]

so, faust. you can read joseph. is he scum?

Why is faust better at reading Joseph than anyone else? Is this related to a game I missed?

Because he's 3/3.

I thought he was 0/2. you aren't counting futuramafia where faust was scum, are you?

[silverspawn]

*2/2

[Witherweaver]

so, faust. you can read joseph. is he scum?

Why is faust better at reading Joseph than anyone else? Is this related to a game I missed?

Because he's 3/3.

I thought he was 0/2. you aren't counting futuramafia where faust was scum, are you?

Oh, right.  2/2.

[Joseph2302]

Great, L-1. I'm not scum, and I'm not claiming, it's far too early. Not really sure what else I can do. I stand by the facts that I'm not scum, and aren't getting a scumread on anyone who's posted lots, which is why I want to start a wagon on someone who hasn't posted much. I don't see how L-1 is better than L-2 for town anyway either. It's not going to tell us anything extra.

[Joseph2302]

Also, PPE:2 on that last post.

[Seprix]

It could be a viable wagon if more people joined. Seriously, he's using as an argument against voting for him "remember that game where I got to L-1 super quickly and fakeclaimed and it screwed things up? You don't want that happening again, do you?"

I'm saying we should try to consider everyone, not just me. There seems to be a tendency on here to assume I'm scum- I guess I don't help this by claiming scum. But I think it's beneficial to look at other candidates too for scum.

PPE:1

Problem: Everyone thinks you're scum
Why: You say you're scum every game
Solution: Maybe stop joking you're scum? You pulled the same thing last time and you turned out to be Mafia though.

I'm pretty close to voting Joseph.

[Seprix]

no... vote: Joseph

L-2

No, don't vote Joseph, he's innocent. Let's do a different wagon, I like Vote: Seprix, primarily because it's a wagon that isn't me!

lol, really? I'm only not voting yet because you're at L-1 and I want to see your claim.

[Joseph2302]

Just to warn you, if you lynch me now, you'll just get lynched tomorrow, because lynching so early is scummy. Especially as I'm town.

[Seprix]

Not if you're scum.

[Joseph2302]

Not if you're scum.

But I'm not scum. But iI'm not revealing my identity yet.

[Seprix]

Not if you're scum.

But I'm not scum. But iI'm not revealing my identity yet.

I'm not going to speak for everyone else, but if you don't claim now, you're going to die, and you're likely to die anyways. So if you're really town, help town.

[silverspawn]

Not if you're scum.

But I'm not scum. But iI'm not revealing my identity yet.

I'm not going to speak for everyone else, but if you don't claim now, you're going to die, and you're likely to die anyways. So if you're really town, help town.

unvote
vote: Seprix

[Witherweaver]

Vote: Seprix

[Witherweaver]

Anyone ever hear about that thing where claiming is bad for us?

Hey, why don't we all just massclaim at Day 1 start every single game.

[chairs]

vote: seprix holy crap did you even read the IC

[A Drowned Kernel]

Seriously, what's so bad about the lynch here? What's the point of putting someone at L-1 if the threat of lynching is empty?

[silverspawn]

Seriously, what's so bad about the lynch here? What's the point of putting someone at L-1 if the threat of lynching is empty?

It's not necessarily bad. But I don't like saying "claim or I will hammer" this early in the game. You should confirm that everyone who votes for the person is serious about his vote, then you can ask for a claim

[A Drowned Kernel]

Is everyone voting for joseph serious about their vote? I am.

[Witherweaver]

Seriously, what's so bad about the lynch here? What's the point of putting someone at L-1 if the threat of lynching is empty?

There's, like, nothing that convinces me in any way that we'll hit scum.  I don't see this as any different than rolling a die at the beginning of the day.

[Awaclus]

Is everyone voting for joseph serious about their vote? I am.

My vote is a serious one, yes.

[Twistedarcher]

I don't get it, this just seems like a random continuation of RVS.

You guys are okay lynching Joseph because you think it's more likely scum would make that joke than town would make that joke? I disagree, but more importantly, I think it was just a dang joke. We're lynching someone over a joke?

It seems like it's this joke that's causing the votes, I haven't seen too much about Joseph's reactions as a reason for the vote. I don't get how this is good grounds for a lynch, it's not impossible he's scum but I don't think we've honestly learned anything about him.

[Twistedarcher]

Seprix, have you been scum before?

[Twistedarcher]

A Joseph lynch here seems meta-fueled more than anything else. This group of people has been playing a ton of mafia games together lately, but looking at the case with no meta-perspective on Joseph, it seems to be woefully lacking in facts or proof from this game.

[Witherweaver]

I don't get it, this just seems like a random continuation of RVS.

You guys are okay lynching Joseph because you think it's more likely scum would make that joke than town would make that joke? I disagree, but more importantly, I think it was just a dang joke. We're lynching someone over a joke?

It seems like it's this joke that's causing the votes, I haven't seen too much about Joseph's reactions as a reason for the vote. I don't get how this is good grounds for a lynch, it's not impossible he's scum but I don't think we've honestly learned anything about him.

This is precisely correct.  He may or may not be scum, but even if he is it has nothing to do with any of what's gone on so far.

[Twistedarcher]

Ichi reads scummiest to me out of all this, I'll pull some quotes in a minute

[silverspawn]

A Joseph lynch here seems meta-fueled more than anything else. This group of people has been playing a ton of mafia games together lately, but looking at the case with no meta-perspective on Joseph, it seems to be woefully lacking in facts or proof from this game.

well, meta reads are most valuable kind of reads. I disagree that there is nothing to go on. Just the way someone posts can be enough, you don't necessarily need content.

but that's just my general answer. As for this case, I don't think it's enough to lynch him yet.

[Twistedarcher]

From experience. Getting early, sincere suspicion on you as scum is very frustrating. I'm fairly certain he wasn't banking on people finding him scummy this soon into the game. And so far, his reactions seem to fit pretty well with him being frustrated scum.

PPE: 1

(Sorry, this is getting broken up into multiple posts since I'm having trouble formatting on my tablet).

Here's scummy post #1. Getting frustrated at suspicion definitely isn't a scum trait or a town trait, it happens to everyone -- no one likes being lynched, especially when the arguments appear to be fairly empty. What's scummy about this post is that Ichi's taking a neutral action and trying to turn it into Joseph being scummy. Rather than looking at the evidence and making a conclusion, this reads to me like Ichi starting with the conclusion (Joseph = scum) and fitting the evidence to that conclusion.

This can come from both scum trying to manufacture reasons (since they don't have gut reads or anything of the such), or town who's already made up their mind and wants to "prove" their read is correct.

[Twistedarcher]

I just don't see Joseph trying here at all. He claims scum. And how does he expect to avert people's scumreads on him for all of his "joking"? By doing the same thing and purposefully acting scummy--he's embracing it. This is our lynch today people.

Scummy post #2 -- the same traits as scummy post #1. People will try to avoid lynches as town or scum, there's nothing in Joseph's behavior that you've pointed out that I think is even close to an exclusive scum behavior, but once again you're attributing this to Joseph clearly being scum.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I don't get it, this just seems like a random continuation of RVS.

You guys are okay lynching Joseph because you think it's more likely scum would make that joke than town would make that joke? I disagree, but more importantly, I think it was just a dang joke. We're lynching someone over a joke?

It seems like it's this joke that's causing the votes, I haven't seen too much about Joseph's reactions as a reason for the vote. I don't get how this is good grounds for a lynch, it's not impossible he's scum but I don't think we've honestly learned anything about him.

I'm okay with lynching joseph because when people gave him negative attention for the joke, his response was to keep joking, and then responded by OMGUS voting me. This is also pretty terrible:

It could be a viable wagon if more people joined. Seriously, he's using as an argument against voting for him "remember that game where I got to L-1 super quickly and fakeclaimed and it screwed things up? You don't want that happening again, do you?"

I'm saying we should try to consider everyone, not just me. There seems to be a tendency on here to assume I'm scum- I guess I don't help this by claiming scum. But I think it's beneficial to look at other candidates too for scum.

PPE:1

He's not arguing that he shouldn't be lynched, he's basically just appealing to "it's too early for a lynch!" It's never too early for a lynch, in my opinion. If someone does something overtly scummy right off the bat (and I think that repeatedly making jokes about being scum is overtly scummy) then they should be lynched right off the bat.

[Twistedarcher]

Ichi seems to be legitimately sold on Joseph being scum on the basis of one post. I...don't know. It seems terribly weak to me, but he definitely seems convinced, and could absolutely be from a towny perspective. There's a shockingly short amount of time between Joseph's "scum like me" post and people deciding that Joseph is absolutely 100% today's lynch.

There's nothing about his viewpoint that makes me think it's scum trying to manufacture a case vs. convinced town, though. There's only about 5 posts to go off of, I was hoping there was more by Ichi when I went back to re-read him.

His case has scummy characteristics but it doesn't necessarily make him scum is what I'm trying to say, I guess.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I just don't see Joseph trying here at all. He claims scum. And how does he expect to avert people's scumreads on him for all of his "joking"? By doing the same thing and purposefully acting scummy--he's embracing it. This is our lynch today people.

Scummy post #2 -- the same traits as scummy post #1. People will try to avoid lynches as town or scum, there's nothing in Joseph's behavior that you've pointed out that I think is even close to an exclusive scum behavior, but once again you're attributing this to Joseph clearly being scum.

I think that Ichi's point is that joseph doesn't seem to be working hard against his own lynch. Again, most of what he's appealed to is the idea that we're too early in the game.

[Twistedarcher]

I don't get it, this just seems like a random continuation of RVS.

You guys are okay lynching Joseph because you think it's more likely scum would make that joke than town would make that joke? I disagree, but more importantly, I think it was just a dang joke. We're lynching someone over a joke?

It seems like it's this joke that's causing the votes, I haven't seen too much about Joseph's reactions as a reason for the vote. I don't get how this is good grounds for a lynch, it's not impossible he's scum but I don't think we've honestly learned anything about him.

I'm okay with lynching joseph because when people gave him negative attention for the joke, his response was to keep joking, and then responded by OMGUS voting me. This is also pretty terrible:

It could be a viable wagon if more people joined. Seriously, he's using as an argument against voting for him "remember that game where I got to L-1 super quickly and fakeclaimed and it screwed things up? You don't want that happening again, do you?"

I'm saying we should try to consider everyone, not just me. There seems to be a tendency on here to assume I'm scum- I guess I don't help this by claiming scum. But I think it's beneficial to look at other candidates too for scum.

PPE:1

He's not arguing that he shouldn't be lynched, he's basically just appealing to "it's too early for a lynch!" It's never too early for a lynch, in my opinion. If someone does something overtly scummy right off the bat (and I think that repeatedly making jokes about being scum is overtly scummy) then they should be lynched right off the bat.

You're right on #2 -- the argument of "I may be scummy, but let's look elsewhere!" is definitely scummy.

PPE -- what about that points to Joseph being scum, though?

[Ichimaru Gin]

From experience. Getting early, sincere suspicion on you as scum is very frustrating. I'm fairly certain he wasn't banking on people finding him scummy this soon into the game. And so far, his reactions seem to fit pretty well with him being frustrated scum.

PPE: 1

(Sorry, this is getting broken up into multiple posts since I'm having trouble formatting on my tablet).

Here's scummy post #1. Getting frustrated at suspicion definitely isn't a scum trait or a town trait, it happens to everyone -- no one likes being lynched, especially when the arguments appear to be fairly empty. What's scummy about this post is that Ichi's taking a neutral action and trying to turn it into Joseph being scummy. Rather than looking at the evidence and making a conclusion, this reads to me like Ichi starting with the conclusion (Joseph = scum) and fitting the evidence to that conclusion.

This can come from both scum trying to manufacture reasons (since they don't have gut reads or anything of the such), or town who's already made up their mind and wants to "prove" their read is correct.

Obviously you either missed or chose to ignore my last sentence. There are different kinds of frustration--and different ways to react to suspicion on you. So far, I have found Joseph's strategy of continuing to joke about being scummy (I understand that he has stopped doing this in recent posts) difficult to see why town would continue to act in that manner. Why would town do this when it is obviously anti-town and was what got him suspected in the first place? Plus, his play just feels a little apathetic. He's not really defending his behavior at all. It's more like a passive defense and a hope that people's attention goes elsewhere. He pretty much admits that too.

I just don't see Joseph trying here at all. He claims scum. And how does he expect to avert people's scumreads on him for all of his "joking"? By doing the same thing and purposefully acting scummy--he's embracing it. This is our lynch today people.

Scummy post #2 -- the same traits as scummy post #1. People will try to avoid lynches as town or scum, there's nothing in Joseph's behavior that you've pointed out that I think is even close to an exclusive scum behavior, but once again you're attributing this to Joseph clearly being scum.

So basically what this comes down to is you don't think Joseph's behavior is a scumtell for him. I disagree. Interesting that you single me out for having the same reasons that other people are voting him. This just feels bad to me.

I'm open to lynching someone else today, but Joseph has acted in a very scummy matter--no matter how much you and WW say his behavior is a null tell, it doesn't feel that way to me. People have taken strong stances on him--and I feel like his partners are working to dissipate that suspicion.

TLDR: you're singling me out from the group that all has pretty similar reasons for voting for Joseph. The question is why?
PPE: ADK I agree completely.

PPE: TA. I can understand your point of view I guess. I feel pretty zealous that Joseph is scum. That being said, I'm not someone that believes in cutting days prematurely short, or going with the first real wagon that shows up D1. It's not impossible for me to be convinced that Joseph isn't scum--it isn't even unlikely. I joined the wagon to help force reactions out of him, and so far those reactions haven't really convinced me at all.

[Teproc]

Vote Count 1.5:

Joseph2302 (4): Awaclus, Ichimaru Gin, A Drowned Kernel, Egork
Seprix (4): Witherweaver, Joseph2302, silverspawn, chairs
Witherweaver (1): faust
A Drowned Kernel (1): XerxesPraelor
Twistedarcher (1): Hydrad

Not Voting (2): Seprix, Twistedarcher

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 12:00 a.m. on February 12, 2015.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I guess I would have expected (or at least hoped) town!joseph be better about scumhunting, rather than just defending himself (defending yourself isn't scummy, though he didn't even do very much of that). I know it's early, but if you're town than your own wagon can be one of the most informative things there is, since you know there's a wagon on town. Most of his posts seem to have been along the lines of "I don't get why this is happening, it's too early to lynch someone guys!", though.

PPE: What's the point of pushing up a wagon if you're not willing to go through with it?

[Ichimaru Gin]

I was and am willing to go through with it--as I said, his reactions have only strengthened my scumread on him. The important part is that the person you vote for thinks that you will go through with it so they feel that they are under genuine pressure. This is why artificial votes aren't really that useful.

[Joseph2302]

I stopped doing the scum thing about 3-4 posts ago, so I don't think it's conclusive evidence.
Also, Seprix's "claim or I'll lynch you" seems super-scummy to me, I just don't think it's the kind of post a town player would make. In my opinion, the wagon evidence on me is weak, I started claiming scum but it was when everyone was doing RVS. So what happens when you lynch me, I'm town, another town dies at night? You begin to wish that D1 had been longer, to get lots more information.

I don't feel like I've been super scummy, the wagon on me seems weak, and I think Seprix's reactions to me were super-scummy. I like my vote on Seprix for this reason.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I stopped doing the scum thing about 3-4 posts ago, so I don't think it's conclusive evidence.
Also, Seprix's "claim or I'll lynch you" seems super-scummy to me, I just don't think it's the kind of post a town player would make. In my opinion, the wagon evidence on me is weak, I started claiming scum but it was when everyone was doing RVS. So what happens when you lynch me, I'm town, another town dies at night? You begin to wish that D1 had been longer, to get lots more information.

I don't feel like I've been super scummy, the wagon on me seems weak, and I think Seprix's reactions to me were super-scummy. I like my vote on Seprix for this reason.

You were still making "I'm scum jokes" when multiple people, including me, were making and discussing serious votes on people.

[Seprix]

I don't get Mafia and how it works. Mafia is social. I am not a social person. I wrote an extremely long thing about it, but even I have common sense enough to know that's not cool to all of you.

I doubt I'll return for a third game, but that is a failure on my part, even if it's something I can't really help.

[silverspawn]

I don't get Mafia and how it works. Mafia is social. I am not a social person. I wrote an extremely long thing about it, but even I have common sense enough to know that's not cool to all of you.

I doubt I'll return for a third game, but that is a failure on my part, even if it's something I can't really help.

Well, I'm not social, I like mafia.

What post are you referring to?

Also, sorry to hear that.

[silverspawn]

though I'm mostly not social because formalities annoy me, and least I hope that's the reason, and there aren't many of that in this forum, so it's probably a different case.

[silverspawn]

*at least

[Seprix]

I don't get Mafia and how it works. Mafia is social. I am not a social person. I wrote an extremely long thing about it, but even I have common sense enough to know that's not cool to all of you.

I doubt I'll return for a third game, but that is a failure on my part, even if it's something I can't really help.

Well, I'm not social, I like mafia.

What post are you referring to?

Also, sorry to hear that.

Oh. Right. I wrote some super long post over this 'issue' I have, but Mafia is not the place for it. I don't really think there's any place for it.

To put it bluntly, I have Asperger's Syndrome. I don't get social things nearly as much as you all do. This is why I post and say awkward things, and I know I have at some point, even if I don't know what it is.

[Twistedarcher]

Hey Seprix, not sure what you're referring to, I didn't notice anything unusual happen at all. I don't think anyone here truly understands how mafia works, we all have been frustrated with the game and its workings. Getting found scummy is just (a very frustrating) part of the game, it happens to everyone. Whatever you want to do is cool with us, don't worry

(FYI -- I have a brother who has Asperger's as well. I know he definitely struggles with forum mafia, but he enjoys it as well, since he's a very logical person and finds it a great way to work through things logically -- he's had times where it's been too much for him, though).

[Seprix]

Hey Seprix, not sure what you're referring to, I didn't notice anything unusual happen at all. I don't think anyone here truly understands how mafia works, we all have been frustrated with the game and its workings. Getting found scummy is just (a very frustrating) part of the game, it happens to everyone. Whatever you want to do is cool with us, don't worry

(FYI -- I have a brother who has Asperger's as well. I know he definitely struggles with forum mafia, but he enjoys it as well, since he's a very logical person and finds it a great way to work through things logically -- he's had times where it's been too much for him, though).

It's okay. Don't let it distract you. I just felt it was time to say that.

[silverspawn]

Have you posted it in this forum? I'd like to read it.

[Witherweaver]

I mean, the issue I have is that ramping up a wagon and getting someone to claim really quickly is bad, because it lets scum know where our PRs bad.  Well, sometimes you can catch scum in fake claims, but as a general practice it's not too good.

[Witherweaver]

I mean, the issue I have is that ramping up a wagon and getting someone to claim really quickly is bad, because it lets scum know where our PRs bad.  Well, sometimes you can catch scum in fake claims, but as a general practice it's not too good.

That should say "where our PRs are".

[A Drowned Kernel]

I mean, the issue I have is that ramping up a wagon and getting someone to claim really quickly is bad, because it lets scum know where our PRs bad.  Well, sometimes you can catch scum in fake claims, but as a general practice it's not too good.

You'll never lynch anyone if you're afraid of putting anyone at L-1, and I think that a quick lynch is generally better than when the day drags on, the game stalls, and we go for a "compromise lynch" at the last second.

[Joseph2302]

I mean, the issue I have is that ramping up a wagon and getting someone to claim really quickly is bad, because it lets scum know where our PRs bad.  Well, sometimes you can catch scum in fake claims, but as a general practice it's not too good.

Yes, that's basically the issue, if I'd claimed there and claimed a PR (power role), then if I'm town, scum knows where one of town's most valuable players is.
And if I'm scum, then the only direct way you'd know I'm scum is if someone else claimed PR, but then they become a target for scum. Although it is good to catch the scum.

Simplifying mafia a lot, you usually want to keep your PRs hidden, so scum can't kill them easily.
(The above discussion is all hypothetical, and does not reflect anything on my actual role in this game)

That's basically why everyone suddenly decided you were scummy, because the move wasn't a good town move. I'm now willing to accept that Seprix reply #207 was not intended as scummy, based on the posts after it, so I'm going to Unvote.

[Witherweaver]

I mean, the issue I have is that ramping up a wagon and getting someone to claim really quickly is bad, because it lets scum know where our PRs bad.  Well, sometimes you can catch scum in fake claims, but as a general practice it's not too good.

You'll never lynch anyone if you're afraid of putting anyone at L-1, and I think that a quick lynch is generally better than when the day drags on, the game stalls, and we go for a "compromise lynch" at the last second.

I think it's pretty clear I'm not saying don't put people at L-1.  You've been a part of these recent games where it's all "Hurry up and get a claim", and I think you'll agree that it's not really that great.

[Witherweaver]

Fastish, or at least not slow, is fine and good.. blitz not so much.

[Joseph2302]

I mean, the issue I have is that ramping up a wagon and getting someone to claim really quickly is bad, because it lets scum know where our PRs bad.  Well, sometimes you can catch scum in fake claims, but as a general practice it's not too good.

You'll never lynch anyone if you're afraid of putting anyone at L-1, and I think that a quick lynch is generally better than when the day drags on, the game stalls, and we go for a "compromise lynch" at the last second.

On the other hand, there have been quite a few recent quicklynches in games that haven't gone the right way. I'm in favour of taking a few days to consider lots of options, and then lynching. However, I think a last minute compromise lynch is often bad.

Also, in answer to someone's claims about me continuing to use "I'm scum jokes", I only mentioned it twice today, and it was in direct response to this:

is joseph even that easy of a mislynch? I think most of the time when we lynched him he was scum.

I've been lynched twice, and both times as scum. I was town in M53, and survived somehow. But this time it's different, I'm not scum. But so far, Day 1 has been pretty much the same as last game.

Let's discuss other possibilities for scum people.

if you tell me the names of your partners, we can discuss them.

This is clearly a sarcastic reply to a post I didn't believe to be serious, since the premise was that I'm scum.


PPE: 2, and I know some of it is pretty much what WW has just said.

[Seprix]

Have you posted it in this forum? I'd like to read it.

No. It will never be posted anywhere, because it doesn't exist. I erased it. I told you what it said, and you didn't need to read paragraphs of information to get what it was supposed to say.

I overreacted is all. I'll continue to play Mafia after this.

[silverspawn]

Have you posted it in this forum? I'd like to read it.

No. It will never be posted anywhere, because it doesn't exist. I erased it. I told you what it said, and you didn't need to read paragraphs of information to get what it was supposed to say.

I overreacted is all. I'll continue to play Mafia after this.

mh, okay.

[Hydrad]

Oh a lot of posting today. Yay.

Hmm I still think I'm against Joseph lynch. As for who's scummy I'm going to reread a bit

[silverspawn]

Oh a lot of posting today. Yay.

Hmm I still think I'm against Joseph lynch. As for who's scummy I'm going to reread a bit

you are scummy.

[Hydrad]

Oh a lot of posting today. Yay.

Hmm I still think I'm against Joseph lynch. As for who's scummy I'm going to reread a bit

you are scummy.

Whyyyyyy

[Joseph2302]

Oh a lot of posting today. Yay.

Hmm I still think I'm against Joseph lynch. As for who's scummy I'm going to reread a bit

you are scummy.

You seem to be throwing a lot of "You're scummy" accusations around, without huge substance. Perhaps you're the scummy one?

PPE: 1

[silverspawn]

Oh a lot of posting today. Yay.

Hmm I still think I'm against Joseph lynch. As for who's scummy I'm going to reread a bit

you are scummy.

Whyyyyyy

because you're scum!

Oh a lot of posting today. Yay.

Hmm I still think I'm against Joseph lynch. As for who's scummy I'm going to reread a bit

you are scummy.

You seem to be throwing a lot of "You're scummy" accusations around, without huge substance. Perhaps you're the scummy one?

PPE: 1

well no, because I'm town.

[Awaclus]

well no, because I'm town.

Just like in Futuramafia, right? 

[silverspawn]

well no, because I'm town.

Just like in Futuramafia, right? 

no; in Futuramafia I was scum.

[Hydrad]

Hmm I'm going to move my vote to

Vote: SS but expect it to move soon. I just like it sitting on you more then on TA

[A Drowned Kernel]

For the sake of talking about something other than joseph, people I think are towny: TA, WW, Ichi. Seprix is pretty much an IC to me at this point. People I think are scummy: chairs, Hydrad.

[silverspawn]

I think ADK and Seprix are towny.

[Joseph2302]

I think Seprix is towny, and slight town reads on WW and ADK (most of what they're saying is beneficial for town to discuss, even if I don't really agree with ADK that quicklynch is good). Also, TA, I like that he was exploring other options than me (because having lots of options thought about is good).
Scumwise, I'm tentatively thinking silverspawn could be scum, although it could just be how he plays (only short posts in Day 1).
Everyone else I've not really got much on.

It's late here, I'll reread tomorrow.

[XerxesPraelor]

I think Joseph is scummy but don't want to lynch him D1 to be fair, and think TA's case is bad but looks towny, and ss is scum. vote: silverspawn

[silverspawn]

I think Joseph is scummy but don't want to lynch him D1 to be fair, and think TA's case is bad but looks towny, and ss is scum. vote: silverspawn

no, you're wrooooooooong

[Hydrad]

Ok Joseph's last post actually makes me think hes scummier now. It feels like hes just following what others say. He voted sephrix and now says hes towny that everyone else is. then he says SS is scummyish after i voted for him?

I dunno but hes moved from town to null now.

[XerxesPraelor]

Here's my gut scumteam guess for post-game accuracy checking:
SS/ADK/Hydrad

[XerxesPraelor]

I think Joseph is scummy but don't want to lynch him D1 to be fair, and think TA's case is bad but looks towny, and ss is scum. vote: silverspawn

no, you're wrooooooooong

If Joseph flips scum I'll agree. Until then, I think I'm riiiiiiiiight. (Whatever the long vowel is supposed to mean - that attitude is part of what makes you look scummy to me, BTW)

[Hydrad]

Here's my gut scumteam guess for post-game accuracy checking:
SS/ADK/Hydrad

oh i wanna play

XP/SS/TA

this isnt even using gut though. more completely random

[silverspawn]

I think Joseph is scummy but don't want to lynch him D1 to be fair, and think TA's case is bad but looks towny, and ss is scum. vote: silverspawn

no, you're wrooooooooong

If Joseph flips scum I'll agree. Until then, I think I'm riiiiiiiiight. (Whatever the long vowel is supposed to mean - that attitude is part of what makes you look scummy to me, BTW)

baaaaaaaaaah

[Witherweaver]

For the sake of talking about something other than joseph, people I think are towny: TA, WW, Ichi. Seprix is pretty much an IC to me at this point. People I think are scummy: chairs, Hydrad.

Hm.. why that on Seprix?

[Awaclus]

Ok, Joseph and XP are both scum.

[Witherweaver]

Ok, Joseph and XP are both scum.

I seriously doubt that.

[A Drowned Kernel]

For the sake of talking about something other than joseph, people I think are towny: TA, WW, Ichi. Seprix is pretty much an IC to me at this point. People I think are scummy: chairs, Hydrad.

Hm.. why that on Seprix?

His distressed posts earlier. I seriously don't see that coming from scum.

[Witherweaver]

For the sake of talking about something other than joseph, people I think are towny: TA, WW, Ichi. Seprix is pretty much an IC to me at this point. People I think are scummy: chairs, Hydrad.

Hm.. why that on Seprix?

His distressed posts earlier. I seriously don't see that coming from scum.

I'm not so sure.. it seemed a bit independent.

[XerxesPraelor]

Ok, Joseph and XP are both scum.

Why?

[Witherweaver]

Vote: Ichi because TA is a standup guy.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Vote: Ichi because TA is a standup guy.

Huh?

[Seprix]

vote count?

[Twistedarcher]

Hey guys, when you throw out random scumteam predictions, can you provide some reasoning? Or should i just be ignoring those posts?

[Ichimaru Gin]

Hey guys, when you throw out random scumteam predictions, can you provide some reasoning? Or should i just be ignoring those posts?

I'd agree that calling scumteams at this point is worthless. So I'd say the latter.

[Twistedarcher]

Also why the seprix townreads?

[Twistedarcher]

I think Joseph is scummy but don't want to lynch him D1 to be fair, and think TA's case is bad but looks towny, and ss is scum. vote: silverspawn

Do you not want to lynch joseph d1 because he's been lynched lately? or becaise of the case on him? why don't you want to lynch someone you find scummy?

[Twistedarcher]

Oh a lot of posting today. Yay.

Hmm I still think I'm against Joseph lynch. As for who's scummy I'm going to reread a bit

you are scummy.

From your previous posts on meta, should i be assuming all your reads are basically meta gut reads? or is there reasoning from this game?

[Twistedarcher]

Hmm I'm going to move my vote to

Vote: SS but expect it to move soon. I just like it sitting on you more then on TA
[/quote

Because you think ss is scummy? if so, why?

[Twistedarcher]

I think ADK and Seprix are towny.

why?

[Ichimaru Gin]

Also why the seprix townreads?

I don't really see that either. At the very least, I think his play so far has been nullish to slight scum.

PPEs: townread on TA. I still don't really get why people don't think Joseph is scum, but it seems we agree on almost everything else.

[Twistedarcher]

Ok, Joseph and XP are both scum.

Elaborate? i don't remember much from your reads other than blanker statements like this, Why do you think XP is scum?

[Twistedarcher]

Ichi, the reason i singled you out might be due to the fact that you posted more reason for voting joseph than others did. I'm not saying your reasoning on Joseph is 100% wrong or 100% misguided (I'm more null than town on him), just that your accusation seemed the most 'forced' to me compared to everyone else (but I also believed you explained your vote more than about anyone else, other than maybe ADK). To me, his actions read like either annoyed town or annoyed scum, and I couldn't tell which -- the fact that you attributed it to scum rather than town raised a flag for me.

Do you think that if Joseph was town, and getting this many votes, that he wouldn't react in a similar way? How do you think he would react? Why   does acting in this behavior benefit scum!Joseph, since I'm not seeing the benefit? Scum or town doesn't want to get mislynched, and is irritated by getting votes -- what in his behavior do you attribute to him being scum that you think he wouldn't do if he were town?

(I know you may have said some of this already, but if you don't mind restating that would be great!)

[Twistedarcher]

Also definitely seeing a pattern of Joseph voting/finding scummy the people against him, while giving town reads to the people supporting him.

[Twistedarcher]

Also why the seprix townreads?

I don't really see that either. At the very least, I think his play so far has been nullish to slight scum.

PPEs: townread on TA. I still don't really get why people don't think Joseph is scum, but it seems we agree on almost everything else.

I agree -- asking Joseph to claim was definitely scummy. I don't know if the townread comes from his posts after that.

I'm most interested in ADK's response, who claims that Seprix is practically an IC to him.

[Twistedarcher]

Ok, I see that ADK's already answered this. I agree with WW's interpretation, though.

[Twistedarcher]

Vote: Ichi because TA is a standup guy.

Well thanks! I'm assuming this means you agree that Ichi was scummy, but any reasoning you'd like to add?

[Ichimaru Gin]

Ichi, the reason i singled you out might be due to the fact that you posted more reason for voting joseph than others did. I'm not saying your reasoning on Joseph is 100% wrong or 100% misguided (I'm more null than town on him), just that your accusation seemed the most 'forced' to me compared to everyone else (but I also believed you explained your vote more than about anyone else, other than maybe ADK). To me, his actions read like either annoyed town or annoyed scum, and I couldn't tell which -- the fact that you attributed it to scum rather than town raised a flag for me.

Do you think that if Joseph was town, and getting this many votes, that he wouldn't react in a similar way? How do you think he would react? Why   does acting in this behavior benefit scum!Joseph, since I'm not seeing the benefit? Scum or town doesn't want to get mislynched, and is irritated by getting votes -- what in his behavior do you attribute to him being scum that you think he wouldn't do if he were town?

(I know you may have said some of this already, but if you don't mind restating that would be great!)

I got a bit excited because I really felt like we had caught scum this early. I'm slightly less sure now.
Answering your questions:
1. I think he would react differently as town. I would expect town to state reasons why they weren't scummy, or at the very least cut out the "ha ha I'm scum" jokes. Joseph didn't really defend himself.
2. It doesn't benefit scum!Joseph, but we've seen him do this before as scum. Scum doesn't always play optimally. The way he's reacted to the suspicion on him specifically: continued joking, OMGUS votes, saying he wants people to look elsewhere, that it's too soon to lynch him, refusing to claim, and pretty explicitly saying he's voting someone else to try and get interest in a lynch other than himself.
3. I don't think town!Joseph would defend himself this way. Yeah it's a somewhat vague statement, but it's pretty much his entire reaction and the things I listed for #2. OMGUS voting in particular along with the continued (albeit subtler) pretending to be scum just raises warning flags to me.

And yeah, I OMGUS vote a lot; it's probably one of the biggest parts of my meta. I still think the way he does it here looks bad.

Vote: ADK. Stop trying to get people to vote for me.

It could be a viable wagon if more people joined. Seriously, he's using as an argument against voting for him "remember that game where I got to L-1 super quickly and fakeclaimed and it screwed things up? You don't want that happening again, do you?"

I'm saying we should try to consider everyone, not just me. There seems to be a tendency on here to assume I'm scum- I guess I don't help this by claiming scum. But I think it's beneficial to look at other candidates too for scum.

Like. This doesn't seem townie at all. He's not even saying "I'm town, there's no case on me". His language seems artificially calm here.

Dah, I could be too entrenched in my reads; but honestly, the scumreads, vote, and opposition I'm getting makes me feel like my vote is in the right place.

[Seprix]

12 posts on one page award goes to TwistedArcher! Paragraphs, bro.

[Seprix]

Ichi, the reason i singled you out might be due to the fact that you posted more reason for voting joseph than others did. I'm not saying your reasoning on Joseph is 100% wrong or 100% misguided (I'm more null than town on him), just that your accusation seemed the most 'forced' to me compared to everyone else (but I also believed you explained your vote more than about anyone else, other than maybe ADK). To me, his actions read like either annoyed town or annoyed scum, and I couldn't tell which -- the fact that you attributed it to scum rather than town raised a flag for me.

Do you think that if Joseph was town, and getting this many votes, that he wouldn't react in a similar way? How do you think he would react? Why   does acting in this behavior benefit scum!Joseph, since I'm not seeing the benefit? Scum or town doesn't want to get mislynched, and is irritated by getting votes -- what in his behavior do you attribute to him being scum that you think he wouldn't do if he were town?

(I know you may have said some of this already, but if you don't mind restating that would be great!)

I got a bit excited because I really felt like we had caught scum this early. I'm slightly less sure now.
Answering your questions:
1. I think he would react differently as town. I would expect town to state reasons why they weren't scummy, or at the very least cut out the "ha ha I'm scum" jokes. Joseph didn't really defend himself.
2. It doesn't benefit scum!Joseph, but we've seen him do this before as scum. Scum doesn't always play optimally. The way he's reacted to the suspicion on him specifically: continued joking, OMGUS votes, saying he wants people to look elsewhere, that it's too soon to lynch him, refusing to claim, and pretty explicitly saying he's voting someone else to try and get interest in a lynch other than himself.
3. I don't think town!Joseph would defend himself this way. Yeah it's a somewhat vague statement, but it's pretty much his entire reaction and the things I listed for #2. OMGUS voting in particular along with the continued (albeit subtler) pretending to be scum just raises warning flags to me.

And yeah, I OMGUS vote a lot; it's probably one of the biggest parts of my meta. I still think the way he does it here looks bad.

Vote: ADK. Stop trying to get people to vote for me.

It could be a viable wagon if more people joined. Seriously, he's using as an argument against voting for him "remember that game where I got to L-1 super quickly and fakeclaimed and it screwed things up? You don't want that happening again, do you?"

I'm saying we should try to consider everyone, not just me. There seems to be a tendency on here to assume I'm scum- I guess I don't help this by claiming scum. But I think it's beneficial to look at other candidates too for scum.

Like. This doesn't seem townie at all. He's not even saying "I'm town, there's no case on me". His language seems artificially calm here.

Dah, I could be too entrenched in my reads; but honestly, the scumreads, vote, and opposition I'm getting makes me feel like my vote is in the right place.

The only difference between Joseph's play now and then is he is not claiming here. I feel like this lynch is really really easy. Too easy. Could Joseph REALLY be scum again? My gut says no, but my mind says yes.

[Ichimaru Gin]

His prior games have no influence on his chances of being scum this game. He has exactly the same odds of being scum this game as anyone else. That being said, I haven't followed the games where he was scum that closely--so should probably go back and look that them. It's late here. I'll be back in 9 hours or so.

Scumreads: WW, Joseph, Seprix, Hydrad

nullish: Awaclus, faust, chairs, XP

Town: EgorK, ADK, SS, TA

[EgorK]

unvote

I do not think that "I had not read setup" slip was fabricated. Although it can be

[Teproc]

Vote Count 1.6

Joseph2302 (3): Awaclus, Ichimaru Gin, A Drowned Kernel
Seprix (2): silverspawn, chairs
silverspawn (2): Hydrad, XerxesPraelor
Witherweaver (1): faust
Ichimaru Gin (1): Witherweaver

Not Voting (4): Seprix, Twistedarcher, Joseph2302, Egork

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 12:00 a.m. on February 12, 2015.

[faust]

so, faust. you can read joseph. is he scum?

Not sure I can read Joseph... I honestly thought he was town that last game when he was the Traitor.

Anyway, he's at least continuing to be anti-town. The longer this goes on, the harder I find it to see a town narrative.

Caveat: Not caught up yet.

[faust]

I think Joseph is scummy but don't want to lynch him D1 to be fair, and think TA's case is bad but looks towny, and ss is scum. vote: silverspawn

Here's my gut scumteam guess for post-game accuracy checking:
SS/ADK/Hydrad

This doesn't make a lot of sense tome. Do you think Joseph is scum or don't you?

[faust]

Okay. I don't think I want to lynch Joseph today after reading everything. I like TA's play, but I don't think it's a town tell, more a TA tell. I feel like Seprix is likely town; I don't see such play from newbie!scum.

I feel scummiest on Xerxes, but I'll take a closer look at Ichi when I've got the time.

Vote: Xerxes

[Awaclus]

Ok, Joseph and XP are both scum.

Elaborate? i don't remember much from your reads other than blanker statements like this, Why do you think XP is scum?

He's been scummy.

[Joseph2302]

Ok Joseph's last post actually makes me think hes scummier now. It feels like hes just following what others say. He voted sephrix and now says hes towny that everyone else is. then he says SS is scummyish after i voted for him?

I dunno but hes moved from town to null now.

Seprix to me looks towny because although reply #207 looked pretty scummy, and attracted scum votes, the discussion afterwards has led me to strongly believe that his actions weren't intended as scummy, and hence his scumminess was actually a newbie mistake. Also, I was the first to unvote him (reply #247), so I'm not just following the crowd, as you suggest.

Ok, Joseph and XP are both scum.

I seriously doubt that.

I seriously doubt that too, primarily because I know that I'm town.

Well, I don't think there is a strong case on me, as I feel like my play so far hasn't been particularly scummy. My claiming scum thing was in RVS, and has basically been dropped (I've used it once in 36 hours, as a sarcastic response to silverspawn), and I believe could be a town or scum action. Also, I'm playing calm because in previous games I rushed to make posts, they turned out not completely saying what I wanted and ended up making me look scummier. So this game I'm not writing my posts with high emotions, which lead to mistakes/confusion that looks scummy, but being more careful with my posts. Also, I can remain calm since I'm confident that I'm not scum, unlike my scum games where my posts were slightly more on edge, since I knew that lots of the stuff I was writing was false.

I think Joseph is scummy but don't want to lynch him D1 to be fair, and think TA's case is bad but looks towny, and ss is scum. vote: silverspawn

Here's my gut scumteam guess for post-game accuracy checking:
SS/ADK/Hydrad

This doesn't make a lot of sense tome. Do you think Joseph is scum or don't you?

This confuses me also. Why do you think I'm scummy? And if I'm scummy, then why aren't I in the scummy list? Seems like a bit of switching or hedging your bets, neither of which is super-towny.

A note on my town reads: Seprix towny I explained above, and I think WW and ADK's discussion on gameplay/quicklynches/slowlynches was towny, since it seems like they're trying to optimise the time of the lynch for the town team (WW in particular). TA slightly towny is kind of a gut instinct, plus he thinks I'm town, which kind of fits better into my logic of seeing this game (I know this is weak evidence, but my read is weak anyway).

I also don't like the short, uninformative post style that silverspawn and now Awaclus also seems to be doing. In my opinion, information is good, so short posts like "Vote: X" and "because he's scummy" aren't very helpful to town. It might just be their metas, but I still don't like it much, and gives me a mild scummy feel to them.

[Awaclus]

I also don't like the short, uninformative post style that silverspawn and now Awaclus also seems to be doing. In my opinion, information is good, so short posts like "Vote: X" and "because he's scummy" aren't very helpful to town. It might just be their metas, but I still don't like it much, and gives me a mild scummy feel to them.

It's not just my meta, it's specifically my town meta. FWIW, it's also incredibly hard to imitate as scum.

[Witherweaver]

I also don't like the short, uninformative post style that silverspawn and now Awaclus also seems to be doing. In my opinion, information is good, so short posts like "Vote: X" and "because he's scummy" aren't very helpful to town. It might just be their metas, but I still don't like it much, and gives me a mild scummy feel to them.

It's not just my meta, it's specifically my town meta. FWIW, it's also incredibly hard to imitate as scum.

So good work?

[Joseph2302]

I also don't like the short, uninformative post style that silverspawn and now Awaclus also seems to be doing. In my opinion, information is good, so short posts like "Vote: X" and "because he's scummy" aren't very helpful to town. It might just be their metas, but I still don't like it much, and gives me a mild scummy feel to them.

It's not just my meta, it's specifically my town meta. FWIW, it's also incredibly hard to imitate as scum.

Well, silverspawn continued to do it in the game he was scum (with a few useful posts, but lots of short posts), so it's not unthinkable that one of you is doing it as scum.
The main reason I think it's scummy is because it isn't helpful.

[Awaclus]

I also don't like the short, uninformative post style that silverspawn and now Awaclus also seems to be doing. In my opinion, information is good, so short posts like "Vote: X" and "because he's scummy" aren't very helpful to town. It might just be their metas, but I still don't like it much, and gives me a mild scummy feel to them.

It's not just my meta, it's specifically my town meta. FWIW, it's also incredibly hard to imitate as scum.

Well, silverspawn continued to do it in the game he was scum (with a few useful posts, but lots of short posts), so it's not unthinkable that one of you is doing it as scum.
The main reason I think it's scummy is because it isn't helpful.

Why wouldn't it be helpful? Town learns that I think you and XP are scummy, scum doesn't learn why.

[Awaclus]

I mean, obviously explaining yourself can be good too, I just personally don't like doing it a lot.

[Joseph2302]

I mean, obviously explaining yourself can be good too, I just personally don't like doing it a lot.

Fair enough, I tend to like explaining my actions, so I guess I intuitively see this as the better way to do things (even if it isn't).
Although it might be easier to be scum and not post a lot, rather than post lots with explanation, since the more you write, the higher the chance for a mistake/scumslip. This is my reasoning behind why it could be slightly scummy. Same applies to lurking- whilst town can do it with good intentions (i.e. they have lots of real life), scum can also do it to avoid attention.

[silverspawn]

Oh a lot of posting today. Yay.

Hmm I still think I'm against Joseph lynch. As for who's scummy I'm going to reread a bit

you are scummy.

From your previous posts on meta, should i be assuming all your reads are basically meta gut reads? or is there reasoning from this game?

If I say "XX is scummy" it could either be a purely artificial claim just to see how that player reacts, or it could be a genuine read that I'm throwing out there, or it could even be something that I felt like posting for no particular reason, because I found that posting spontaneous things, even if they don't make sense, causes me not to get lynched if I'm town.

I'm not expecting anyone to follow, and I usually don't have strong reads this early. If I do want to persuade people, I'll make a real case.

[silverspawn]

@explaining yourself debate: it's all situational. Generally, I like to create unusual situations or force emotional posts if possible. I don't really buy that you need to post content in order for people to form reads on you.

[XerxesPraelor]

I think Joseph is scummy but don't want to lynch him D1 to be fair, and think TA's case is bad but looks towny, and ss is scum. vote: silverspawn

Do you not want to lynch joseph d1 because he's been lynched lately? or becaise of the case on him? why don't you want to lynch someone you find scummy?

Because he's been lynched lately and it would be really frustrating as town to get lynched from basically nothing substantial. Later in the game if he's scum there'll be more evidence, and so we can lynch somewhere else for now that has actual concrete reasoning behind it.

[XerxesPraelor]

@explaining yourself debate: it's all situational. Generally, I like to create unusual situations or force emotional posts if possible. I don't really buy that you need to post content in order for people to form reads on you.

For me at least it's quite a bit easier to form reads when people post their thought process, which is why I generally post mine (that might be why I get lynched as scum so often)

[Joseph2302]

@explaining yourself debate: it's all situational. Generally, I like to create unusual situations or force emotional posts if possible. I don't really buy that you need to post content in order for people to form reads on you.

For me at least it's quite a bit easier to form reads when people post their thought process, which is why I generally post mine (that might be why I get lynched as scum so often)

I agree, this is also why I do it. Although I can see the reason behind the not posting much thing now.

[XerxesPraelor]

So your thought process includes "I'm scum"?

[Ichimaru Gin]

WW you still haven't answered my question. I don't understand what your reasoning behind voting me is.

[Joseph2302]

So your thought process includes "I'm scum"?

Was this question posed to me, or someone else? Either way, I'm going to answer.
I have a null read on you, but am confused as to whether you think I'm scummy or not. Or is it that you think I'm scummy, but not scummy enough to be lynched?

[Seprix]

WW you still haven't answered my question. I don't understand what your reasoning behind voting me is.

Does anyone need a reason for anything?

[Ichimaru Gin]

If he doesn't want to answer me that's fine. But I don't think that's the case here.

[Witherweaver]

WW you still haven't answered my question. I don't understand what your reasoning behind voting me is.

Honestly I was just fishing for reactions, but nothing really came of it.  I was voting for Seprix before, but that was mainly disapproval of trying to force claims and I don't have a scum feeling from him now. 

[Witherweaver]

And when I posted it, I thought TA had voted for you, but he never did.

[A Drowned Kernel]

If joseph really isn't happening (it should happen) how about we try vote: hydrad

[Seprix]

If joseph really isn't happening (it should happen) how about we try vote: hydrad

Why?

[Hydrad]

If joseph really isn't happening (it should happen) how about we try vote: hydrad

Why?

He asks the important questions.

[Hydrad]

also good news is so far faust isn't giving me a weird feeling so hes towny!

[faust]

also good news is so far faust isn't giving me a weird feeling so hes towny!

Thanks, but I feel I haven't really contributed a lot so far.

Also town points for Hydrad for this.

[faust]

I don't really like how Xerxes avoided this question.

I think Joseph is scummy but don't want to lynch him D1 to be fair, and think TA's case is bad but looks towny, and ss is scum. vote: silverspawn

Here's my gut scumteam guess for post-game accuracy checking:
SS/ADK/Hydrad

This doesn't make a lot of sense tome. Do you think Joseph is scum or don't you?

[Teproc]

Vote Count 1.7

Joseph2302 (2): Awaclus, Ichimaru Gin
Seprix (2): silverspawn, chairs
silverspawn (2): Hydrad, XerxesPraelor
Ichimaru Gin (1): Witherweaver
XerxesPraelor (1): faust
Hydrad (1): A Drowned Kernel

Not Voting (4): Seprix, Twistedarcher, Joseph2302, Egork

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 12:00 a.m. on February 12, 2015.

[XerxesPraelor]

I don't really like how Xerxes avoided this question.

I think Joseph is scummy but don't want to lynch him D1 to be fair, and think TA's case is bad but looks towny, and ss is scum. vote: silverspawn

Here's my gut scumteam guess for post-game accuracy checking:
SS/ADK/Hydrad

This doesn't make a lot of sense tome. Do you think Joseph is scum or don't you?

I answered that like twice.

[EgorK]

also good news is so far faust isn't giving me a weird feeling so hes towny!

Thanks, but I feel I haven't really contributed a lot so far.

Also town points for Hydrad for this.

Town point for budying?

[faust]

I don't really like how Xerxes avoided this question.

I think Joseph is scummy but don't want to lynch him D1 to be fair, and think TA's case is bad but looks towny, and ss is scum. vote: silverspawn

Here's my gut scumteam guess for post-game accuracy checking:
SS/ADK/Hydrad

This doesn't make a lot of sense tome. Do you think Joseph is scum or don't you?

I answered that like twice.

You mean this:

Because he's been lynched lately and it would be really frustrating as town to get lynched from basically nothing substantial. Later in the game if he's scum there'll be more evidence, and so we can lynch somewhere else for now that has actual concrete reasoning behind it.

What I'm getting from this is that you still find Joseph scummy. Then why isn't he on your scum team?

[faust]

also good news is so far faust isn't giving me a weird feeling so hes towny!

Thanks, but I feel I haven't really contributed a lot so far.

Also town points for Hydrad for this.

Town point for budying?

Yeah. I just don't think this comes from scum!Hydrad.

[XerxesPraelor]

Interactions

[Ichimaru Gin]

Wow. This game has kind of stalled. The Joseph wagon has pretty much fallen apart. It's not looking so much like that's going to happen today. So how about vote: WW. For having a lazy vote on me.

Also, I'm slightly wary of his whole "I have really bad reads as town lately" thing. Sure, it's kinda true--but it also seems like an easy thing for scum!WW to say and get away with acting scummy. He's already admitted to manipulating his meta--it kinda makes sense this might be something he'd repeat as town so people would be used to it when he decided to use it as scum.

[Witherweaver]

Sweet, I have a preemptive OMGUS vote already up.

[faust]

Wow. This game has kind of stalled. The Joseph wagon has pretty much fallen apart. It's not looking so much like that's going to happen today. So how about vote: WW. For having a lazy vote on me.

Also, I'm slightly wary of his whole "I have really bad reads as town lately" thing. Sure, it's kinda true--but it also seems like an easy thing for scum!WW to say and get away with acting scummy. He's already admitted to manipulating his meta--it kinda makes sense this might be something he'd repeat as town so people would be used to it when he decided to use it as scum.

I don't understand - are you saying that WW purposefully had bad reads the last games so that he can make this argument now? Because that makes zero sense.

[Witherweaver]

Wow. This game has kind of stalled. The Joseph wagon has pretty much fallen apart. It's not looking so much like that's going to happen today. So how about vote: WW. For having a lazy vote on me.

Also, I'm slightly wary of his whole "I have really bad reads as town lately" thing. Sure, it's kinda true--but it also seems like an easy thing for scum!WW to say and get away with acting scummy. He's already admitted to manipulating his meta--it kinda makes sense this might be something he'd repeat as town so people would be used to it when he decided to use it as scum.

I don't understand - are you saying that WW purposefully had bad reads the last games so that he can make this argument now? Because that makes zero sense.

It would make sense if I had displayed bad reads this game and was using that as a defense.

[Ichimaru Gin]

WW gets it. Also I may be slightly LA as my internet connection is acting up again.

I don't really see how my OMGUS vote is "preemptive" though. You think it's indicative of something else that's going to happen?

[Ichimaru Gin]

Dah. This is so frustrating trying to post with my internet cutting out every other second. I think I kind of understand your phrasing more. However, that bit about your meta was ancillary to you voting me for admittedly no reason--not getting a/the reaction you wanted, and then continuing to leave your vote on me. That just feels bad. My vote on Joseph wasn't really helping the game move along--I like my new vote better.

[Witherweaver]

Dah. This is so frustrating trying to post with my internet cutting out every other second. I think I kind of understand your phrasing more. However, that bit about your meta was ancillary to you voting me for admittedly no reason--not getting a/the reaction you wanted, and then continuing to leave your vote on me. That just feels bad. My vote on Joseph wasn't really helping the game move along--I like my new vote better.

I did not say there was no reason behind my vote for you. 

[Ichimaru Gin]

I know that. I should have said no good reason to vote me--as that would have been more accurate. I just find it interesting that you admit that you didn't really get what you wanted out of voting me and that you also voted me based upon a flawed assumption (that TA was voting for me), and yet you just left your vote there.

[Witherweaver]

I know that. I should have said no good reason to vote me--as that would have been more accurate. I just find it interesting that you admit that you didn't really get what you wanted out of voting me and that you also voted me based upon a flawed assumption (that TA was voting for me), and yet you just left your vote there.

Well these are interactions based upon my vote for you, so it doesn't seem all the failed.

The thing about me thinking TA voting for you as well is that then people are reacting to a wagon, which could have been informative.  One vote doesn't get as much attention.

I didn't change my vote because there was no reason to.  But I'll bite---who should I vote for instead?

[Awaclus]

I know that. I should have said no good reason to vote me--as that would have been more accurate. I just find it interesting that you admit that you didn't really get what you wanted out of voting me and that you also voted me based upon a flawed assumption (that TA was voting for me), and yet you just left your vote there.

Well these are interactions based upon my vote for you, so it doesn't seem all the failed.

The thing about me thinking TA voting for you as well is that then people are reacting to a wagon, which could have been informative.  One vote doesn't get as much attention.

I didn't change my vote because there was no reason to.  But I'll bite---who should I vote for instead?

Yourself of course.

[Witherweaver]

I know that. I should have said no good reason to vote me--as that would have been more accurate. I just find it interesting that you admit that you didn't really get what you wanted out of voting me and that you also voted me based upon a flawed assumption (that TA was voting for me), and yet you just left your vote there.

Well these are interactions based upon my vote for you, so it doesn't seem all the failed.

The thing about me thinking TA voting for you as well is that then people are reacting to a wagon, which could have been informative.  One vote doesn't get as much attention.

I didn't change my vote because there was no reason to.  But I'll bite---who should I vote for instead?

Yourself of course.

Vote: Witherw---OH WAIT YOU GOT ME

[Ichimaru Gin]

Ninja'd by Awaclus!

But seriously. If I feel like  my vote is bad, I will unvote and stay not voting for awhile until/unless someone else jumps out at me. That's just what I do though.

PPE: WW being funny = scum!WW

[Witherweaver]

Ninja'd by Awaclus!

But seriously. If I feel like  my vote is bad, I will unvote and stay not voting for awhile until/unless someone else jumps out at me. That's just what I do though.

PPE: WW being funny = scum!WW

I've always found that behavior to be suggestive of scum voting for town.  After all, if you're town, you don't know the alignment of the person you're voting for, and votes are generally a good thing.  Unless there is a danger of a quickhammer or something, why worry about leaving your vote?

[Ichimaru Gin]

I never really thought about it that way. Just over the course of all the games I've played, I've noticed that I tend to spend a fair amount of time without my vote on someone.

It's not worry about leaving my vote. I'd just rather be not voting than voting for someone I don't really want to lynch. I find the opposite behavior--leaving your vote on the same person for long periods of time and/or voting for someone you don't really want to lynch--to be more scummy.

[Hydrad]

Hmm this is hard. I find both of you scummy right now but I doubt your a team. Which one is right though.

I think I like Vote: IG a bit more

[Ichimaru Gin]

Hmm this is hard. I find both of you scummy right now but I doubt your a team. Which one is right though.

I think I like Vote: IG a bit more

This sense that WW and I are the only valid places to put your vote at this point intrigues me. What makes you think that we aren't a team? Why do you like your vote on me better than WW?

It's good that something is happening in this game at least.

[Hydrad]

Hmm this is hard. I find both of you scummy right now but I doubt your a team. Which one is right though.

I think I like Vote: IG a bit more

This sense that WW and I are the only valid places to put your vote at this point intrigues me. What makes you think that we aren't a team? Why do you like your vote on me better than WW?

It's good that something is happening in this game at least.

I've been having a hard time getting a scum read this game but for some reason you and ww stuck out as scummy.

Good points for you is keeping this game going and looks like your scum hunting. Weird feeling points is usually your defending is a lot different. This time it feels like your kinda accepting the votes a bit more. It just feels a bit different then your scum and town game slightly.

Now ya I could be misreading the situation but at the moment feels slightly scummy to me.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Hmm this is hard. I find both of you scummy right now but I doubt your a team. Which one is right though.

I think I like Vote: IG a bit more

This sense that WW and I are the only valid places to put your vote at this point intrigues me. What makes you think that we aren't a team? Why do you like your vote on me better than WW?

It's good that something is happening in this game at least.

I've been having a hard time getting a scum read this game but for some reason you and ww stuck out as scummy.

Good points for you is keeping this game going and looks like your scum hunting. Weird feeling points is usually your defending is a lot different. This time it feels like your kinda accepting the votes a bit more. It just feels a bit different then your scum and town game slightly.

Now ya I could be misreading the situation but at the moment feels slightly scummy to me.

I'm fine with this explanation. It seems pretty townie to me. Ha ha, this will just make you think I'm scum even more I guess.

[Hydrad]

Oh and as for the team part. I don't know but both your interactions don't sound like team member talk.

[faust]

PPE: WW being funny = scum!WW

Eh, I think WW being funny = WW.

[faust]

Ninja'd by Awaclus!

But seriously. If I feel like  my vote is bad, I will unvote and stay not voting for awhile until/unless someone else jumps out at me. That's just what I do though.

PPE: WW being funny = scum!WW

I've always found that behavior to be suggestive of scum voting for town.  After all, if you're town, you don't know the alignment of the person you're voting for, and votes are generally a good thing.  Unless there is a danger of a quickhammer or something, why worry about leaving your vote?

I agree with you that keeping you vote > unvoting, but I believe it's a playstyle thing. When I am scum, I don't suddenly unvote - I know that town!me would never unvote, and so I don't do it as scum. Some other people just like to have a "justified" vote or no vote at all, and if there's no justification, they unvote whether town or scum.

[faust]

I'm fine with this explanation. It seems pretty townie to me. Ha ha, this will just make you think I'm scum even more I guess.

So you don't want to offer any counterargument? Well, yes, this does make me think you're scum even more.

[faust]

Oh, I don't know about the whole Ichi vs WW thing, I feel like I need to reread town!Ichi and scum!Ichi games because right now I can't make up my mind. WW feels townier to me than usual. I hope that means he's town.

[faust]

Okay, I've looked over stuff, and I kinda lean against voting Ichi now. He seems well within how he would play this as town (+ his scum play is usually different).

[Ichimaru Gin]

I'm fine with this explanation. It seems pretty townie to me. Ha ha, this will just make you think I'm scum even more I guess.

So you don't want to offer any counterargument? Well, yes, this does make me think you're scum even more.

Do I really need to?
Hydrad's read on me is partially based on "gut" which by definition can't really be argued against. Furthermore, my meta obviously doesn't support his conclusion since I've acted incredibly defensive as both town and scum--and have also gotten the entire gambit of suspicion as town and scum for being overly reactive/not reactive enough. Though at this point having seen how scum has managed to use my meta against me, I'm not certain I can tell the difference between willful misinterpretation or just an honest mistake. In this instance, I tend to lean towards the latter.

And...I should probably go to sleep. It's a bit past 1 here.

PPE's: a few. Also, there's quite a few people who haven't posted in a while, so that's not good.

[Teproc]

Vote Count 1.8

Seprix (2): silverspawn, chairs
Ichimaru Gin (2): Witherweaver, Hydrad
silverspawn (1): XerxesPraelor
Joseph2302 (1): Awaclus
XerxesPraelor (1): faust
Hydrad (1): A Drowned Kernel
Witherweaver (1): Ichimaru Gin

Not Voting (4): Seprix, Twistedarcher, Joseph2302, Egork

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 12:00 a.m. on February 12, 2015.

[Joseph2302]

Phone post :

I'm not getting a scummy feeling from anyone at the moment, will reread properly later today.

[Witherweaver]

I don't really have a scum read on Ichi.  I don't have a huge one on anyone else.  Currently the people I'd like to not lynch are:

Hydrad
Xerxes
Twisted Archer

Probably not Ichi, Faust, ADK, Seprix either. 

Vote: Silverspawn

[Twistedarcher]

I don't know if i want to lynch Ichi, either. he's responded fairly well to my accusations.

[Twistedarcher]

I think XP is at the topof my lynch list at the moment.

vote: xerxespraelor

[Seprix]

I don't see much scumminess going on besides Joseph's joke thing, and I'm going to assume he's not scum this time, even though he pulled the same thing last time and turned out to be scum.

I'll probably do some reading and perhaps post some thoughts, but it's hard working with nothing.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Prod:  Egork, A Drowned Kernel, XerxesPraelor, Awaclus, Silverspawn, and chairs.

But seriously. You guys should post. I'm entirely not sure if WW backing off of me makes me feel townier about him or not. In the past, he's maintained a townread on me while his partner engages me--yet it doesn't seem like I'm tunneled by anyone yet. I'll unvote for now I guess.

I'm actually considering sheeping WW here. Lurky silver is kind of scaring me.

His last post was this; which strikes me as a little odd.

@explaining yourself debate: it's all situational. Generally, I like to create unusual situations or force emotional posts if possible. I don't really buy that you need to post content in order for people to form reads on you.

Aside from general activity level, I'm not entirely sure how one is supposed to read you if you don't have content. Yeah, I'ma vote: silverspawn

[silverspawn]

Prod:  Egork, A Drowned Kernel, XerxesPraelor, Awaclus, Silverspawn, and chairs.

But seriously. You guys should post. I'm entirely not sure if WW backing off of me makes me feel townier about him or not. In the past, he's maintained a townread on me while his partner engages me--yet it doesn't seem like I'm tunneled by anyone yet. I'll unvote for now I guess.

I'm actually considering sheeping WW here. Lurky silver is kind of scaring me.

His last post was this; which strikes me as a little odd.

@explaining yourself debate: it's all situational. Generally, I like to create unusual situations or force emotional posts if possible. I don't really buy that you need to post content in order for people to form reads on you.

Aside from general activity level, I'm not entirely sure how one is supposed to read you if you don't have content. Yeah, I'ma vote: silverspawn

post

[faust]

So, a bit more than 2 days to deadline, and our votes are widely spread...

chairs, silver: Wha makes you think Seprix is scum?
Awaclus: Do you think we will lynch Joseph today? If not, consider switching your vote.
ADK: Why Hydrad?
Seprix, Joseph: How about committing your vote?

[Awaclus]

Awaclus: Do you think we will lynch Joseph today? If not, consider switching your vote.

Well, it's starting to look like we won't. Vote: XP

[faust]

Not that I disagree, but what are other people's reasons to vote Xerxes?

[Teproc]

Vote Count 1.9

silverspawn (3): XerxesPraelor, Witherweaver, Ichimaru Gin
XerxesPraelor (3): faust, Twistedarcher, Awaclus
Seprix (2): silverspawn, chairs
Ichimaru Gin (1):  Hydrad
Hydrad (1): A Drowned Kernel

Not Voting (3): Seprix, Joseph2302, Egork

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 12:00 a.m. on February 12, 2015.

Prod:  Egork, A Drowned Kernel, XerxesPraelor, Awaclus, Silverspawn, and chairs.

Egork, A Drowned Kernel, XerxesPraelor and chairs have been prodded

[EgorK]

I thought I posted in VLA

Still, reading now

[silverspawn]

So, a bit more than 2 days to deadline, and our votes are widely spread...

chairs, silver: Wha makes you think Seprix is scum?

I don't, unvote

[XerxesPraelor]

Sorry for leaving - so what's the caseon me?

[A Drowned Kernel]

People were asking me about me voting for hydrad, pretty sure hydrad was one of them. Unfortunately, I've kind of lost track of this game. I remember I had a scum read on Hydrad from back when he self-voted, and that's about it.

For now, I'm going to go back to vote: joseph until I can do a proper reread, which should be tonight.

[Joseph2302]

Sorry, life has been busy at the moment. Am going to do a reread in a few minutes.

[Joseph2302]

So, my current thoughts:

1. Hydrad- not many posts, and not getting a read off these posts. Null read.
2. Egork- Innocent Child
3. Ichimaru Gin- seems convinced I'm scum, but the way in which he's arguing seems sensible (even though the conclusion is incorrect). Null read
4. A Drowned Kernel- seems pretty intent on lynching me, but apart from that his posts seem okay. Argument about quicklynch/slowlynch with WW seemed towny to me. Overall slight town read.
5. Joseph2302- me
6. XerxesPraelor- confused about his interactions with me (does he think I'm scum or not?) But agree with post #312, I think the evidence was weak, and wasn't worth lynching me on. Overall, null read.
7. Awaclus- short posts, threw random accusation at XP and I (reply#271). Slightly scummy feel.
8. Silverspawn- short posts, encouraged the continuation of my scum-claim. Slightly scummy feel.
9. faust- not so many posts, but recent interactions have a towny feel, so slight town read.
10. Witherweaver- his interactions seem quite towny to me, especially the argument about lynch timings with ADK
11. Seprix- town for me, with hindsight his actions around me and L1/hammering look more confused/newbie/mistaken town than scum.
12. Twistedarcher- was looking at options when everyone else was focused on me, I think that this is townie (I would think this even if the focus was on another player, not me)
13. chairs- almost no posts

Basically at this point, I wouldn't want to lynch Seprix, ADK, WW, TA, faust.

[Witherweaver]

So, my current thoughts:

1. Hydrad- not many posts, and not getting a read off these posts. Null read.
2. Egork- Innocent Child
3. Ichimaru Gin- seems convinced I'm scum, but the way in which he's arguing seems sensible (even though the conclusion is incorrect). Null read
4. A Drowned Kernel- seems pretty intent on lynching me, but apart from that his posts seem okay. Argument about quicklynch/slowlynch with WW seemed towny to me. Overall slight town read.
5. Joseph2302- me
6. XerxesPraelor- confused about his interactions with me (does he think I'm scum or not?) But agree with post #312, I think the evidence was weak, and wasn't worth lynching me on. Overall, null read.
7. Awaclus- short posts, threw random accusation at XP and I (reply#271). Slightly scummy feel.
8. Silverspawn- short posts, encouraged the continuation of my scum-claim. Slightly scummy feel.
9. faust- not so many posts, but recent interactions have a towny feel, so slight town read.
10. Witherweaver- his interactions seem quite towny to me, especially the argument about lynch timings with ADK
11. Seprix- town for me, with hindsight his actions around me and L1/hammering look more confused/newbie/mistaken town than scum.
12. Twistedarcher- was looking at options when everyone else was focused on me, I think that this is townie (I would think this even if the focus was on another player, not me)
13. chairs- almost no posts

Basically at this point, I wouldn't want to lynch Seprix, ADK, WW, TA, faust.

There's a general theme that those defending you/taking the focus off you are townie.  If you're town, this makes sense somewhat (because you know your lynch is a mislynch).  However, defending people is very easy to do as scum, and it provides a lot of apparently content.  It's one of the easiest ways to look like you're scumhunting.

[chairs]

Hi.

I still like vote: joseph.

In fact, I've never quit liking it.

[Joseph2302]

So, my current thoughts:

1. Hydrad- not many posts, and not getting a read off these posts. Null read.
2. Egork- Innocent Child
3. Ichimaru Gin- seems convinced I'm scum, but the way in which he's arguing seems sensible (even though the conclusion is incorrect). Null read
4. A Drowned Kernel- seems pretty intent on lynching me, but apart from that his posts seem okay. Argument about quicklynch/slowlynch with WW seemed towny to me. Overall slight town read.
5. Joseph2302- me
6. XerxesPraelor- confused about his interactions with me (does he think I'm scum or not?) But agree with post #312, I think the evidence was weak, and wasn't worth lynching me on. Overall, null read.
7. Awaclus- short posts, threw random accusation at XP and I (reply#271). Slightly scummy feel.
8. Silverspawn- short posts, encouraged the continuation of my scum-claim. Slightly scummy feel.
9. faust- not so many posts, but recent interactions have a towny feel, so slight town read.
10. Witherweaver- his interactions seem quite towny to me, especially the argument about lynch timings with ADK
11. Seprix- town for me, with hindsight his actions around me and L1/hammering look more confused/newbie/mistaken town than scum.
12. Twistedarcher- was looking at options when everyone else was focused on me, I think that this is townie (I would think this even if the focus was on another player, not me)
13. chairs- almost no posts

Basically at this point, I wouldn't want to lynch Seprix, ADK, WW, TA, faust.

There's a general theme that those defending you/taking the focus off you are townie.  If you're town, this makes sense somewhat (because you know your lynch is a mislynch).  However, defending people is very easy to do as scum, and it provides a lot of apparently content.  It's one of the easiest ways to look like you're scumhunting.

I know that could be a way to hide, but I doubt all the scum would hide this way, so ruling them out still leaves scum options. Any elimination process could also eliminate some scum from the lynch pool, and so I think my methodology isn't too bad.

And this list certainly isn't as simple as supporting me=town, opposing me=scum.
XP is a null read, despite clearly not wanting to lynch me.
ADK & Ichi are slightly down reads despite the fact they want to lynch me, as their arguments have been good/towny IMO, even if their conclusion is not so good.

PPE: 1

[Joseph2302]

Hi.

I still like vote: joseph.

In fact, I've never quit liking it.

I understand the logic of "You did the same as last game, when you were scum", but I think that's not a strong argument. Anything more to add?

[Awaclus]

XP is a null read, despite clearly not wanting to lynch me.

Obviously. You wouldn't want to have a too strong town read on your scum partner, after all.

[Joseph2302]

XP is a null read, despite clearly not wanting to lynch me.

Obviously. You wouldn't want to have a too strong town read on your scum partner, after all.

In what way have XP and I been like scum partners?

[Awaclus]

XP is a null read, despite clearly not wanting to lynch me.

Obviously. You wouldn't want to have a too strong town read on your scum partner, after all.

In what way have XP and I been like scum partners?

Mostly you've both just been very scummy individually.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I'm beginning to doubt that scum!silver would be this cavalier. It's WIFOM--but generally speaking, SS is normally a very active player.

There's renewed interest in Joseph--good. That reads list is making me think he's scum again.

[Joseph2302]

XP is a null read, despite clearly not wanting to lynch me.

Obviously. You wouldn't want to have a too strong town read on your scum partner, after all.

In what way have XP and I been like scum partners?

Mostly you've both just been very scummy individually.

I disagree on my scumminess, and not particularly convinced XP is scum.

Joseph: How about committing your vote?

Seems like I'm ready to now. I'm getting more suspicious of Awaclus, as he's tunnelled on me, which is wrong. Vote: Awaclus for now. This isn't an OMGUS vote, but a vote based on my intuition that he's scummy.

PPE:1

[Ichimaru Gin]

Eh. He's had his vote on you for a lot of the game. He's switched pretty much between you and XP only though.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm beginning to doubt that scum!silver would be this cavalier. It's WIFOM--but generally speaking, SS is normally a very active player.

There's renewed interest in Joseph--good. That reads list is making me think he's scum again.

On silver: I have to reread him here but in Futurama he basically lurked his way to victory after his partners got lynched. I think his low activity has to do with RL issues, though. I wouldn't read it as an alignment tell either way.

[Awaclus]

as he's tunnelled on me [...] This isn't an OMGUS vote

 

[silverspawn]

I'm beginning to doubt that scum!silver would be this cavalier. It's WIFOM--but generally speaking, SS is normally a very active player.

There's renewed interest in Joseph--good. That reads list is making me think he's scum again.

On silver: I have to reread him here but in Futurama he basically lurked his way to victory after his partners got lynched. I think his low activity has to do with RL issues, though. I wouldn't read it as an alignment tell either way.

yeah

[faust]

I'm beginning to doubt that scum!silver would be this cavalier. It's WIFOM--but generally speaking, SS is normally a very active player.

There's renewed interest in Joseph--good. That reads list is making me think he's scum again.

Hrm. I suggest you look at silver's most recent scum game. He basically lurked his way to victory.

[faust]

I'm beginning to doubt that scum!silver would be this cavalier. It's WIFOM--but generally speaking, SS is normally a very active player.

There's renewed interest in Joseph--good. That reads list is making me think he's scum again.

Hrm. I suggest you look at silver's most recent scum game. He basically lurked his way to victory.

Oops, should read what others post first 

[Ichimaru Gin]

I died so early on in Futurama, I kind of stopped following it. It sounds like he has IRL reasons here, but I should probably reaquaint myself with that game anyway.

PPE: 1

[faust]

I say we don't lynch Joseph today. If you disagree, read my signature.

Anyway, the case on Xerxes is he's been inconsistent and has tried to explain this inconsistency away instead of admitting to it. Not too much, but something.

[A Drowned Kernel]

On a reread, my list from scummiest to towniest:

chairs>>joseph>>hydrad>awaclus>faust>SS=WW=XP>TA=Ichi=Seprix

chairs actually looks super super scummy. He makes a lot of short, contentless posts, does a lot of opportunistic wagon jumping, and my hackles are still up from how he RVS voted the IC and then ignored it completely when I made a serious vote on him for it.

vote: chairs

[Witherweaver]

Inconsistent and particularly noncomformant Xerxes is basically a town tell for him.

[Teproc]

Vote Count 1.10

silverspawn (3): XerxesPraelor, Witherweaver, Ichimaru Gin
XerxesPraelor (3): faust, Twistedarcher, Awaclus
Joseph2302 (1): chairs
Ichimaru Gin (1):  Hydrad
Awaclus (1): Joseph2302
chairs (1): A Drowned Kernel

Not Voting (3): Seprix, Egork, silverspawn

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 12:00 a.m. on February 12, 2015.

[Seprix]

joseph has four people voting for him, so you won't be hammering when you vote.

Getting a sense of deja vu from the last game I played. Next you'll be putting me on L-1 and trying to get me to claim my role already . This is a bad idea, so don't so it. Might already be voting you, but if not, Vote: ADK. Stop trying to get people to vote for me.

XP is a null read, despite clearly not wanting to lynch me.

Obviously. You wouldn't want to have a too strong town read on your scum partner, after all.

In what way have XP and I been like scum partners?

Mostly you've both just been very scummy individually.

I disagree on my scumminess, and not particularly convinced XP is scum.

Joseph: How about committing your vote?

Seems like I'm ready to now. I'm getting more suspicious of Awaclus, as he's tunnelled on me, which is wrong. Vote: Awaclus for now. This isn't an OMGUS vote, but a vote based on my intuition that he's scummy.

PPE:1

vote:Joseph

[Seprix]

My reason for voting Joseph is that he reacts to everything anyone says against him, period. He's done a multitude of OMGUS votes, from ADK to Awaclus. There's one guy voting for Joseph. Why is he so defensive still? Everyone just about dismissed lynching him for today, it seems.

ADK's reasons behind scum!chairs is something I'm also watching, because I think it holds some merit.

[Witherweaver]

My reason for voting Joseph is that he reacts to everything anyone says against him, period. He's done a multitude of OMGUS votes, from ADK to Awaclus. There's one guy voting for Joseph. Why is he so defensive still? Everyone just about dismissed lynching him for today, it seems.

ADK's reasons behind scum!chairs is something I'm also watching, because I think it holds some merit.

This reads townie to me from Seprix.

[A Drowned Kernel]

My reason for voting Joseph is that he reacts to everything anyone says against him, period. He's done a multitude of OMGUS votes, from ADK to Awaclus. There's one guy voting for Joseph. Why is he so defensive still? Everyone just about dismissed lynching him for today, it seems.

ADK's reasons behind scum!chairs is something I'm also watching, because I think it holds some merit.

I haven't dismissed lynching him for today FYI.

[Awaclus]

Joseph lynch happening again? Great, let's do Joseph. vote: Joseph

[silverspawn]

I'm not sure, wouldn't it be a really convenient thing for scum to support a joseph lynch here? very safe. it'll get someone else lynched and you won't even look suspicious.

[Joseph2302]

Well, this looks bad for me.

My reason for voting Joseph is that he reacts to everything anyone says against him, period. He's done a multitude of OMGUS votes, from ADK to Awaclus. There's one guy voting for Joseph. Why is he so defensive still? Everyone just about dismissed lynching him for today, it seems.

ADK's reasons behind scum!chairs is something I'm also watching, because I think it holds some merit.

I'm defensive because the last 2 games I've been lynched D1 and D2, and it has felt throughout like I'm going to be D1 lynch again. With no real justification this time, as the main difference is that I'm not scum.

PPE: 1

[Seprix]

Well, this looks bad for me.

My reason for voting Joseph is that he reacts to everything anyone says against him, period. He's done a multitude of OMGUS votes, from ADK to Awaclus. There's one guy voting for Joseph. Why is he so defensive still? Everyone just about dismissed lynching him for today, it seems.

ADK's reasons behind scum!chairs is something I'm also watching, because I think it holds some merit.

I'm defensive because the last 2 games I've been lynched D1 and D2, and it has felt throughout like I'm going to be D1 lynch again. With no real justification this time, as the main difference is that I'm not scum.

PPE: 1

I'm going to ask now because it's been bugging me, but that the heck does PPE stand for?

[silverspawn]

Well, this looks bad for me.

My reason for voting Joseph is that he reacts to everything anyone says against him, period. He's done a multitude of OMGUS votes, from ADK to Awaclus. There's one guy voting for Joseph. Why is he so defensive still? Everyone just about dismissed lynching him for today, it seems.

ADK's reasons behind scum!chairs is something I'm also watching, because I think it holds some merit.

I'm defensive because the last 2 games I've been lynched D1 and D2, and it has felt throughout like I'm going to be D1 lynch again. With no real justification this time, as the main difference is that I'm not scum.

PPE: 1

I'm going to ask now because it's been bugging me, but that the heck does PPE stand for?

if you want to submit a post and the forum says "X people have posted, you might want to revisit your post", you write PPE X. ppe = prepost edit

[Seprix]

Well, this looks bad for me.

My reason for voting Joseph is that he reacts to everything anyone says against him, period. He's done a multitude of OMGUS votes, from ADK to Awaclus. There's one guy voting for Joseph. Why is he so defensive still? Everyone just about dismissed lynching him for today, it seems.

ADK's reasons behind scum!chairs is something I'm also watching, because I think it holds some merit.

I'm defensive because the last 2 games I've been lynched D1 and D2, and it has felt throughout like I'm going to be D1 lynch again. With no real justification this time, as the main difference is that I'm not scum.

PPE: 1

I'm going to ask now because it's been bugging me, but that the heck does PPE stand for?

if you want to submit a post and the forum says "X people have posted, you might want to revisit your post", you write PPE X. ppe = prepost edit

Okay, I get it.

[Awaclus]

I'm not sure, wouldn't it be a really convenient thing for scum to support a joseph lynch here? very safe. it'll get someone else lynched and you won't even look suspicious.

You don't know Joseph is town, and even if he is, I fail to see why being on any other D1 mislynch wagon would be more suspicious.

[Seprix]

So... How is everyone?

[Hydrad]

So... How is everyone?

I'm doing pretty good. And yourself?

[Hydrad]

On the topic of Joseph again I'm with SS. He feels like a easy mislynch that won't actually give much info on whos scummy or not on his wagon.

I still like IG more.

[Awaclus]

Why would a town!IG lynch give us more information than a town!Joseph lynch?

[Hydrad]

Why would a town!IG lynch give us more information than a town!Joseph lynch?

Well for one thing I think IG has a higher chance of being scum.

The other thing is if lots of people are ok with a Joseph lynch and hes town its going to be hard to find out which ones are scum pushing it and stuff. If someone else gets lynched it will be more of a fight for them and I'm guessing stronger reads will happen.

Does that make sense? I tried writing it a bunch of different ways but I'm still not sure if my thought process is explained very well.

[Awaclus]

Why would a town!IG lynch give us more information than a town!Joseph lynch?

Well for one thing I think IG has a higher chance of being scum.

The other thing is if lots of people are ok with a Joseph lynch and hes town its going to be hard to find out which ones are scum pushing it and stuff. If someone else gets lynched it will be more of a fight for them and I'm guessing stronger reads will happen.

Does that make sense? I tried writing it a bunch of different ways but I'm still not sure if my thought process is explained very well.

It doesn't really make sense. In order for someone to get lynched, regardless of who it is, the majority of people have to be ok with that lynch.

[Joseph2302]

Why would a town!IG lynch give us more information than a town!Joseph lynch?

Well for one thing I think IG has a higher chance of being scum.

The other thing is if lots of people are ok with a Joseph lynch and hes town its going to be hard to find out which ones are scum pushing it and stuff. If someone else gets lynched it will be more of a fight for them and I'm guessing stronger reads will happen.

Does that make sense? I tried writing it a bunch of different ways but I'm still not sure if my thought process is explained very well.

It doesn't really make sense. In order for someone to get lynched, regardless of who it is, the majority of people have to be ok with that lynch.

Yes, but the problem is lots of people are okay with the lynch, but not super convinced. So this makes it easier for scum to join the lynch without being detected, as if they look reluctant to lynch then so do some town people as well.

[Awaclus]

Yes, but the problem is lots of people are okay with the lynch, but not super convinced. So this makes it easier for scum to join the lynch without being detected, as if they look reluctant to lynch then so do some town people as well.

Why would scum look reluctant to lynch you? Oh, right, because you're scum so obviously they would be reluctant to lynch their partner.

[Joseph2302]

Yes, but the problem is lots of people are okay with the lynch, but not super convinced. So this makes it easier for scum to join the lynch without being detected, as if they look reluctant to lynch then so do some town people as well.

Why would scum look reluctant to lynch you? Oh, right, because you're scum so obviously they would be reluctant to lynch their partner.

Because scum think they can get a better lynch than me, as I'm an obvious target. But they'll reluctantly lynch me to get a mislynch.

[Awaclus]

Because scum think they can get a better lynch than me, as I'm an obvious target. But they'll reluctantly lynch me to get a mislynch.

Okay then, why am I scummy for wanting to lynch you if scum wants to lynch someone else?

[faust]

I don't feel good about what Awaclus does here. It feels... constructed.

[faust]

The timeline is most interesting here: As soon as Xerxes starting becoming a viable lynch, people put attention back on Joseph.

[Teproc]

Vote Count 1.11

silverspawn (3): XerxesPraelor, Witherweaver, Ichimaru Gin
Joseph2302 (3): chairs, Seprix, Awaclus
XerxesPraelor (2): faust, Twistedarcher
Ichimaru Gin (1):  Hydrad
Awaclus (1): Joseph2302
chairs (1): A Drowned Kernel

Not Voting (2): Egork, silverspawn

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 12:00 a.m. on February 12, 2015. That's in about 27 hours (fixed).

[faust]

The timeline is most interesting here: As soon as Xerxes starting becoming a viable lynch, people put attention back on Joseph.

I guess the same could be said about silver.

[Joseph2302]

Because scum think they can get a better lynch than me, as I'm an obvious target. But they'll reluctantly lynch me to get a mislynch.

Okay then, why am I scummy for wanting to lynch you if scum wants to lynch someone else?

Because wanting to lynch me because I'm easy could be scummy or not. However, I think your general etiquette has been scummy, I'm not a fan of the short posting, and I can't see why you continually accuse XP and I of being scummy/scum team (e.g. reply #381). IMO, this makes you the scummiest person at the moment.

[Witherweaver]

I could move to Awaclus.

[A Drowned Kernel]

silver I'm pretty sure is town, what's the case on XP again, faust?

[faust]

silver I'm pretty sure is town, what's the case on XP again, faust?

I say we don't lynch Joseph today. If you disagree, read my signature.

Anyway, the case on Xerxes is he's been inconsistent and has tried to explain this inconsistency away instead of admitting to it. Not too much, but something.

[faust]

silver I'm pretty sure is town, what's the case on XP again, faust?

Why are you sure that silver is town?

[faust]

Day 1 ends at 12:00 a.m. on February 12, 2015. That's in about 15 hours.

And ugh. I wasn't aware that things look that grim.

[Joseph2302]

Day 1 ends at 12:00 a.m. on February 12, 2015. That's in about 15 hours.

I thought that deadine was at 12 noon forum time, which would be 27 hours time?

Day 1 ends at 12:00 a.m. on February 12, 2015.

Just to check, that's 12 noon, not 12 midnight?

Correct.

Mod: Can you please confirm the deadline?

[Joseph2302]

Also, 15 hours is pretty terrible, there doesn't appear to be any good wagons. I've never played in a game with no lynch, but I assume they're bad for town?

[Teproc]

You're correct, I misspoke with the 15 hours thing, somehow counted a day as being 12 hours instead of 24... sorry about that. Deadline is approximately 26 hours from now.

[Awaclus]

Because scum think they can get a better lynch than me, as I'm an obvious target. But they'll reluctantly lynch me to get a mislynch.

Okay then, why am I scummy for wanting to lynch you if scum wants to lynch someone else?

Because wanting to lynch me because I'm easy could be scummy or not. However, I think your general etiquette has been scummy, I'm not a fan of the short posting, and I can't see why you continually accuse XP and I of being scummy/scum team (e.g. reply #381). IMO, this makes you the scummiest person at the moment.

You are scummy because I believe there are no circumstances under which it is beneficial for town to call themselves scummy. You can be like "but would I do this as scum twice in a row? " but as I see it, there's just no way you would do it as town at all.

XP is scummy because everything he posts sounds like something that scum would post in an attempt to look towny while getting a mislynch through.

Why aren't you a fan of the short posting? Short posts are much more convenient to read than long posts. I always spend a lot of effort to make my posts as short as possible, you can check my posting history if you want, they're mostly one-liners and that includes games where I was town, games where I was scum, and posts that have nothing to do with Mafia.

[faust]

Because scum think they can get a better lynch than me, as I'm an obvious target. But they'll reluctantly lynch me to get a mislynch.

Okay then, why am I scummy for wanting to lynch you if scum wants to lynch someone else?

Because wanting to lynch me because I'm easy could be scummy or not. However, I think your general etiquette has been scummy, I'm not a fan of the short posting, and I can't see why you continually accuse XP and I of being scummy/scum team (e.g. reply #381). IMO, this makes you the scummiest person at the moment.

You are scummy because I believe there are no circumstances under which it is beneficial for town to call themselves scummy. You can be like "but would I do this as scum twice in a row? " but as I see it, there's just no way you would do it as town at all.

Which circumstances are there under which it is beneficial for scum to call themselves scummy?

[Awaclus]

Which circumstances are there under which it is beneficial for scum to call themselves scummy?

It worked out pretty well in Futuramafia.

[chairs]

Whee.

[A Drowned Kernel]

For real though, let's lynch chairs.

[Witherweaver]

For real though, let's lynch chairs.

Hm.. why is Silver town again?

[Joseph2302]

For real though, let's lynch chairs.

Hm.. why is Silver town again?

I don't think he is, I have a weak scum read on him.
But chairs hasn't been around much, and hasn't posted V/LA. Possible scum lurker? Although I might just be clutching at straws.

[A Drowned Kernel]

For real though, let's lynch chairs.

Hm.. why is Silver town again?

I have a towny feeling on him. Not super strong, he's-an-IC town read. But I'd rather not lynch him today when there are much better options.

[silverspawn]

yea, let us not lynch me. or faust, joseph, awaclus, seprix, or ADK.

let's see who's left

Hydrad
Ichimaru Gin
XerxesPraelor
Witherweaver
Twistedarcher
chairs

how about chairs or WW? vote: chairs

[Seprix]

I could move to Awaclus.

I agree with WW here, but I'll stick with my original vote for now.

[Seprix]

Joseph really has been acting scummy, and there's a good chance he's scum. No one's really defending him, so there's either a bus going on, or maybe he really isn't scum. Then again, anyone defending him would be the next target if he did end up being scum. The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking lynching Joseph now is a mistake.

unvote

I still have a scum read on Chairs for his infrequent posting, and I could see Awaclus being scum, though should he really put that much effort into a lynch that's easy if he's scum? I dunno, I think Chairs might actually be the right move, but I'll think about it.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Joseph really has been acting scummy, and there's a good chance he's scum. No one's really defending him, so there's either a bus going on, or maybe he really isn't scum. Then again, anyone defending him would be the next target if he did end up being scum. The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking lynching Joseph now is a mistake.

unvote

I still have a scum read on Chairs for his infrequent posting, and I could see Awaclus being scum, though should he really put that much effort into a lynch that's easy if he's scum? I dunno, I think Chairs might actually be the right move, but I'll think about it.

This is what i mean when i say that seprix is towny. Scum doesn't make a rambling post like that, where they start off saying "so-and-so is scummy, actually they're not, unvote."

[Seprix]

Joseph really has been acting scummy, and there's a good chance he's scum. No one's really defending him, so there's either a bus going on, or maybe he really isn't scum. Then again, anyone defending him would be the next target if he did end up being scum. The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking lynching Joseph now is a mistake.

unvote

I still have a scum read on Chairs for his infrequent posting, and I could see Awaclus being scum, though should he really put that much effort into a lynch that's easy if he's scum? I dunno, I think Chairs might actually be the right move, but I'll think about it.

This is what i mean when i say that seprix is towny. Scum doesn't make a rambling post like that, where they start off saying "so-and-so is scummy, actually they're not, unvote."

If he ends up being scum, I'm going to laugh at myself for double guessing my vote. :p

[Awaclus]

No one's really defending him

XP, faust, silverspawn and Hydrad have been more or less defending him.

[Ichimaru Gin]

So we have about 1 day til the deadline. Eh, I'm not too happy with my SS vote. I'll unvote for now.
I should be around for awhile--pretty sure I'll be asleep during the deadline though so I will put my vote somewhere useful before then.

I could do chairs except I don't get a particularly scummy feeling from him and lurking isn't really a scumtell for him. Awaclus is worth taking a look at.

PPE: Awaclus. I'm actually going to vote: Joseph. Seprix's defense of Joseph looks a little partnerish and kind of weird to me. I don't know why ADK thinks he's an IC.

[Witherweaver]

I kind of agree with ADK here.  Seprix does not at all sound like a scum!Joseph partner, nor does he sound like scum acting towards town!Joseph.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I kind of agree with ADK here.  Seprix does not at all sound like a scum!Joseph partner, nor does he sound like scum acting towards town!Joseph.

Interesting. I'm not really seeing what you guys are I guess.

I still like my vote on Joseph though.

[Seprix]

So we have about 1 day til the deadline. Eh, I'm not too happy with my SS vote. I'll unvote for now.
I should be around for awhile--pretty sure I'll be asleep during the deadline though so I will put my vote somewhere useful before then.

I could do chairs except I don't get a particularly scummy feeling from him and lurking isn't really a scumtell for him. Awaclus is worth taking a look at.

PPE: Awaclus. I'm actually going to vote: Joseph. Seprix's defense of Joseph looks a little partnerish and kind of weird to me. I don't know why ADK thinks he's an IC.

Don't get the wrong impression. I'm not defending the man. I just am having second thoughts about someone everyone wants to lynch, it just seems a little too obvious. I'm okay with a Day 1 Joseph lynch though, but I feel like we might be able to do better.
PPE: 1 (Hey, I used it! )

[Awaclus]

Don't get the wrong impression. I'm not defending the man. I just am having second thoughts about someone everyone wants to lynch, it just seems a little too obvious. I'm okay with a Day 1 Joseph lynch though, but I feel like we might be able to do better.
PPE: 1 (Hey, I used it! )

But it's not like everyone wants to lynch Joseph.

[silverspawn]

of course not, if everyone wanted to lynch joseph, he'd be dead now.

[Teproc]

Vote Count 1.12

Joseph2302 (3): chairs, Awaclus, Ichimaru Gin
silverspawn (2): XerxesPraelor, Witherweaver
XerxesPraelor (2): faust, Twistedarcher
chairs (2): A Drowned Kernel, silverspawn
Ichimaru Gin (1):  Hydrad
Awaclus (1): Joseph2302

Not Voting (2): Egork, Seprix

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 12:00 a.m. on February 12, 2015. That's in ~ 13 hours.

[chairs]

Sorry that I haven't been posting much.  I've been ill for two days and I have an 8-months-pregnant fiancee, so please bear with me if I'm not the best at posting regularly.  I don't really have anything new to add, which doesn't help, because I don't really have anything new to say.

[Joseph2302]

Sorry that I haven't been posting much.  I've been ill for two days and I have an 8-months-pregnant fiancee, so please bear with me if I'm not the best at posting regularly.  I don't really have anything new to add, which doesn't help, because I don't really have anything new to say. am scum.

Well, if you insist that you're scum, Vote: chairs.

[silverspawn]

Sorry that I haven't been posting much.  I've been ill for two days and I have an 8-months-pregnant fiancee, so please bear with me if I'm not the best at posting regularly.  I don't really have anything new to add, which doesn't help, because I don't really have anything new to say. am scum.

Well, if you insist that you're scum, Vote: chairs.

how is that vote insisting that chairs is scum?

[Joseph2302]

Sorry that I haven't been posting much.  I've been ill for two days and I have an 8-months-pregnant fiancee, so please bear with me if I'm not the best at posting regularly.  I don't really have anything new to add, which doesn't help, because I don't really have anything new to say. am scum.

Well, if you insist that you're scum, Vote: chairs.

how is that vote insisting that chairs is scum?

chairs said that he was scum, and I agreed and thus voted for him. Also, I found his lurking a little scummy previously, and this was an excuse to vote someone. Awaclus isn't really happening.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I love my vote on Joseph. Seriously, chairs has a huge lurker meta. He gave a bunch of legitimate irl reasons for his absence. It's not as if we've had any super important events like a claim or something--that obviously would require input from everyone. I agree that him returning but not having anything to add is a tad scummy--but I don't know that that's a scumtell for chairs either.

And saying he claimed scum? This is just more thinly veiled OMGUS from Joseph. chairs has had his vote on him the longest I think, so it makes sense he wouldn't like that.

[Witherweaver]

Yeah Chairs doesn't seem scummy here.  I don't like that vote from Joseph.

[Joseph2302]

Okay, I was trying to get the game going, it's like 16 hours to the deadline and nothing is happening. I get that chairs had legitimate reasons, but we've got very little information this game, and I blame this on lurkers and short posters. Therefore, I would like to lynch one of them.
Especially as I'm not getting a scum vibe off anyone else.

[Awaclus]

Usually there is very little information before a flip. I don't think it's anyone's fault in particular.

[Joseph2302]

Usually there is very little information before a flip. I don't think it's anyone's fault in particular.

True, but there seems to be even less than usual, IMO.
Also, wagons. There aren't any. So trying to start some is good. Unless we want no lynch. No lynch is bad, right?

[silverspawn]

Usually there is very little information before a flip. I don't think it's anyone's fault in particular.

True, but there seems to be even less than usual, IMO.
Also, wagons. There aren't any. So trying to start some is good. Unless we want no lynch. No lynch is bad, right?

are you trying to be scummy?

[Seprix]

Enough BS.

vote: Joseph

[silverspawn]

mhpf. vote: WW

[Ichimaru Gin]

mhpf. vote: WW

?

[Joseph2302]

Usually there is very little information before a flip. I don't think it's anyone's fault in particular.

True, but there seems to be even less than usual, IMO.
Also, wagons. There aren't any. So trying to start some is good. Unless we want no lynch. No lynch is bad, right?

are you trying to be scummy?

No, I'm trying to get some action into the game. Looks like it's working. Action=good for town.

[silverspawn]

mhpf. vote: WW

?

well it's PoE, I don't want to do chairs anymore after what Joseph just did.
of course I could also just do joseph, but it doesn't feel right.

[silverspawn]

so I'm confident enough that Joseph is scum to feel towny about chairs because of him, but not confident enough to vote for him. yeah, that doesn't make too much sense. whatever <.<

[Joseph2302]

I'm going to bed now, please don't lynch me before I return.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I'm going to bed now, please don't lynch me before I return.

And when will that be? I would lynch you right now if I could. You've refused to claim. I see no reason to not lynch you while you're away.

[Joseph2302]

I'm going to bed now, please don't lynch me before I return.

And when will that be? I would lynch you right now if I could. You've refused to claim. I see no reason to not lynch you while you're away.

Why is claiming good for town? I can claim if lots of people want me to.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I'm going to bed now, please don't lynch me before I return.

And when will that be? I would lynch you right now if I could. You've refused to claim. I see no reason to not lynch you while you're away.

Why is claiming good for town? I can claim if lots of people want me to.

Your claiming is WIFOM. I'm fairly certain someone (ADK?) said they would lynch you through a claim. Also, your refusal to claim could mean a lot of different things. I have no way of knowing which one of those possibilities it is though: my read on you makes me tend to think it's a scum ploy.

What I meant was that if you are like not going to claim ever, then it makes complete sense to lynch you while you're away. If you are considering claiming pending you getting lynched (which unfortunately isn't a sure thing at this point), that changes things. You only have like 3 votes on you right now; however, I'm not really seeing a good alternative wagon atm.

[Joseph2302]

Having thought about it, claiming now is better than having to claim just before the deadline, which might cause hysteria like in M56. So, I'm a VT. Lynching me isn't the worst option, however I'd prefer we hit scum.

Also, I'm now actually going to bed, will be back in around 8-9 hours (5-6 am forum time).

[Seprix]

Having thought about it, claiming now is better than having to claim just before the deadline, which might cause hysteria like in M56. So, I'm a VT. Lynching me isn't the worst option, however I'd prefer we hit scum.

Also, I'm now actually going to bed, will be back in around 8-9 hours (5-6 am forum time).

I guess going to bed actually means watching Mic Qsenoch's stream. :p

[Joseph2302]

Having thought about it, claiming now is better than having to claim just before the deadline, which might cause hysteria like in M56. So, I'm a VT. Lynching me isn't the worst option, however I'd prefer we hit scum.

Also, I'm now actually going to bed, will be back in around 8-9 hours (5-6 am forum time).

I guess going to bed actually means watching Mic Qsenoch's stream. :p

Nah I left the stream.

[Witherweaver]

Vote: Awaclus is the right thing to do.

[XerxesPraelor]

vote: ww

Not the right way to go. Is the deadline soon? If it is I can switch to Joseph.

[Seprix]

vote: ww

Not the right way to go. Is the deadline soon? If it is I can switch to Joseph.

I think we have slightly over or under a day.

[Seprix]

vote: ww

Not the right way to go. Is the deadline soon? If it is I can switch to Joseph.

I think we have slightly over or under a day.

Whoops. Completely wrong.

We have about 9 hours.

[Twistedarcher]

Joseph's been pulling just about every stereotypical scum move this day...I didn't agree with the initial argument, but he's performed just about every scum tell. OMGUS on people voting him, town read on people defending him, more concerned about his defense than about any reads on any other player, playing very very very reactively...

[Witherweaver]

Joseph's been pulling just about every stereotypical scum move this day...I didn't agree with the initial argument, but he's performed just about every scum tell. OMGUS on people voting him, town read on people defending him, more concerned about his defense than about any reads on any other player, playing very very very reactively...

I'd like to think he'd not be playing stereotypically scummy after just playing scum (and getting lynched) twice in a row.  I'd be willing to lynch him, though.

[silverspawn]

Well, I won't be there for the deadline, so... I guess vote: Joseph to leave my vote somewhere where it matters.

Doesn't mean you have to lynch him though, if you get a majority for someone else.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Yeah. Everyone was like, totally going to sheep your choice of lynch no matter what.

You made the right choice though. I will definitely not be around for the deadline; I'm going to sleep in approx. 3 hours, but will be around until then.

[silverspawn]

Yeah. Everyone was like, totally going to sheep your choice of lynch no matter what.

I know, people just do everything I say. it's scary.

[Witherweaver]

Deadline is noon tomorrow?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Oh yay, are we finally doing the joseph lynch?

vote: joseph that's L-1 I believe.

[faust]

Welp. My whole reasoning against lynching Joseph was that I thought him a PR based on previous posts.

I need to reread now.

[faust]

I will be around at deadline, and can lynch Joseph if necessary, so no need for hasty moves.

[faust]

Day 1 ends at 12:00 a.m. on February 12, 2015. That's in ~ 13 hours.

Also, I'm terribly confused. This quote is from ~5 pm forum time (11 pm in France). If it were ~13 hours from then to the deadline, that would mean Teproc is doing the deadline based on UTC+1, not forum time.

Teproc: Can you clarify when the exact deadline is in forum time and UTC?

[faust]

I can be around for both FWIW, but if it's going to be noon here, I doubt we get another wagon started.

[Hydrad]

I dunno if i'm going to be around for deadline which is disappointing. I'll see if I can wake up early or something though as its not something I want to miss.

As for what to do with my vote I feel like it doesn't even matter at this point. Joseph has claimed and he is at L-1 still with no other wagon really going.

I'll go Vote: Awaclus and sheep WW. I don't really think hes scummy but I kinda just wanna do someone other then Joseph still and IG isn't going through.

Anyways I'm going to bed. I'll try to wake up a bit early to see if I can still give input before a lynch goes through.

[faust]

So, my current thoughts:

1. Hydrad- not many posts, and not getting a read off these posts. Null read.
2. Egork- Innocent Child
3. Ichimaru Gin- seems convinced I'm scum, but the way in which he's arguing seems sensible (even though the conclusion is incorrect). Null read
4. A Drowned Kernel- seems pretty intent on lynching me, but apart from that his posts seem okay. Argument about quicklynch/slowlynch with WW seemed towny to me. Overall slight town read.
5. Joseph2302- me
6. XerxesPraelor- confused about his interactions with me (does he think I'm scum or not?) But agree with post #312, I think the evidence was weak, and wasn't worth lynching me on. Overall, null read.
7. Awaclus- short posts, threw random accusation at XP and I (reply#271). Slightly scummy feel.
8. Silverspawn- short posts, encouraged the continuation of my scum-claim. Slightly scummy feel.
9. faust- not so many posts, but recent interactions have a towny feel, so slight town read.
10. Witherweaver- his interactions seem quite towny to me, especially the argument about lynch timings with ADK
11. Seprix- town for me, with hindsight his actions around me and L1/hammering look more confused/newbie/mistaken town than scum.
12. Twistedarcher- was looking at options when everyone else was focused on me, I think that this is townie (I would think this even if the focus was on another player, not me)
13. chairs- almost no posts

Basically at this point, I wouldn't want to lynch Seprix, ADK, WW, TA, faust.

So, people have accused Joseph of finding people that attack him scummy while giving town points to those defending him. I really don't see that from this. Town reads are among others ADK and Seprix, both of which are intent to lynch him.

[faust]

To see through this: A rough timeline of the Joseph case.

Joseph jokes about being scum.
Lots of people vote for Joseph.
Joseph doesn't have any real scum reads, votes somewhere to get another wagon started.
People think that's scummy.
People back off of Joseph after he said he wouldn't claim.
silverspawn and Xerxes get suspected.
Some people talk about how Joseph isn't viable anymore.
People accuse Joseph of having "convenient" reads.
The Joseph wagon picks up steam again.
Joseph tries for a lurker lynch.
L-1.

[faust]

Oh, and Joseph claims VT of course. Does that make any sense? Only if you think that people would make the argument that scum wouldn't claim VT here... but I think the danger is far too big for Joseph to be lynched anyway, since town now isn't afraid of losing a PR (something that's kept me from Joseph so far).

[Ichimaru Gin]

C'mon Hydrad. vote: Joseph.

You know it's the right thing to do.

PPE: faust. I think scum would claim VT--because it gives him an excuse for staying alive if he doesn't get lynched today. Also, for WIFOM. If Joseph claiming VT makes people think he isn't scum, it's a good idea on scum's part. I don't think I would have believed him if he claimed a PR...yeah, I don't think Joseph can really win with me at this point. I backed off the wagon to see if he played much differently without as much pressure, but his play has screamed scum to me for pretty much the entire day.

[faust]

So, I'm not loving this. I'm also not loving how people used the Joseph case to abstain from producing any content other than "Joseph is scum!" today. (I'm looking at you, ADK/Awaclus)

I will try for an alternate wagon. Realistically, I don't think any wagon against players off the Joseph wagon will go through (because that would require people to leave the Joseph wagon). So my lynch pool reduces to:

chairs, Awaclus, Ichi, Seprix, silver, ADK

chairs:
His only content today is "Joseph is scummy". Literally. I get that he's busy IRL, but this is going to make things really difficult on upcoming days.

Awaclus:
Okay, so also lots of stuff thrown at Joseph, plus some talk about how he doesn't like explaining himself (actually looks rather genuine). Overall, though I think he shouldn't have tunneled as much as he did, I don't get a particular scum vibe from his posts.

Ichi:
Really has quite some content, and he reacted towny when under suspicion I think. Has worked to drive this game forward. Not someone I want to see lynched (oddly enough).

Seprix:
Has a bit of a back and forth on Joseph that actaully feels rather genuine to me (maybe because I've gone through a similar process). Not my top choice.

silver:
The major thing against him his wagon timing. A wagon on him starts, then suddenly Joseph is a lynch candidate again, and nobody's talk about him anymore. Also his interaction with WW doesn't read very genuine to me.

ADK:
He really looks like trying to be reasonable about things. Tunneling Joseph, but at the same time appearing to consider other options. I don't like this:

silver I'm pretty sure is town, what's the case on XP again, faust?

For real though, let's lynch chairs.

Hm.. why is Silver town again?

I have a towny feeling on him. Not super strong, he's-an-IC town read. But I'd rather not lynch him today when there are much better options.

because it kind of contradicts.

So after this, my favorite lynch cnadidates are silver and ADK I think. ADK probably a bit more than silver. Vote: ADK

[faust]

PPE: faust. I think scum would claim VT--because it gives him an excuse for staying alive if he doesn't get lynched today. Also, for WIFOM. If Joseph claiming VT makes people think he isn't scum, it's a good idea on scum's part. I don't think I would have believed him if he claimed a PR...yeah, I don't think Joseph can really win with me at this point. I backed off the wagon to see if he played much differently without as much pressure, but his play has screamed scum to me for pretty much the entire day.

I think scum, in general, might claim VT. But it doesn't seem like a good idea for Joseph. Plus, as this game is apparently about referring to Futuramafia all the time, he claimed PR there, even when he knew it wasn't safe.

[faust]

Actually I think Vote: silverspawn is better.

[Awaclus]

I still like my vote on Joseph.

[Teproc]

Vote Count 1.13

Joseph2302 (6): chairs, Awaclus, Ichimaru Gin, Seprix, silverspawn, A Drowned Kernel  {L-1}
Awaclus (2): Witherweaver, Hydrad
chairs (1): Joseph2302
XerxesPraelor (1): Twistedarcher
Witherweaver (1): XerxesPraelor
silverspawn (1): faust

Not Voting (1): Egork

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 12:00 a.m. on February 12, 2015 forum time.

That's in 7 and a half hours.

Not sure why I'm having such a hard time counting hours these days : but the deadline is at noon forum time, Sorry for the confusion, that's what I get for posting vote counts just before bed.

[faust]

Anyone there?

[Awaclus]

I'm still here, and I still like the Joseph lynch.

[Joseph2302]

I'm around from now til the deadline. Phone post, will post content when I've loaded up my laptop. I

[Joseph2302]

So, the reason why I claimed when I did was because if I claimed then, it was ~15 hours until deadline, meaning that people could think about it, consider other options carefully, and then decide on how to proceed. Like faust has been able to do. If I'd not done it, then I might have been lynched by now (Ichi clearly wanted me lynched if I didn't claim), or if I'd had to claim about now, then it's only ~5.5 hours until deadline, so everything is more of a rush.

The fact is that I'm VT, and so I'm still accepting of lynching me. That way we won't hit a PR, which would be bad. But I would like if possible to check that everyone on my wagon still wants to be there.
However, I still think we could hit scum, and I could go for a silverspawn lynch right now, since I haven't found him towny, so Vote: silverspawn.

[Joseph2302]

Joseph2302 (6): chairs, Awaclus, Ichimaru Gin, Seprix, silverspawn, A Drowned Kernel  {L-1}

Awaclus: likes his vote
Ichi: wants me lynched
Seprix: didn't change vote after I claimed
silverspawn: not around
ADK: voted for me after I claimed

So, the only people who could realistically jump off the wagon are Seprix or chairs. And it's possible neither of them will be around. Okay, I'm probably lynched then.

[Joseph2302]

Trying to do some maths now:

On average/expected value, there will be 3.5 PRs (a 3-shot cop and on average 2.5 other PRs), and an innocent Child.

There are 11 choices (minus me and IC), so if we pick randomly, P(hit PR)=3.5/11=31.8%
                                                                                         P(hit scum)=3/11=27.3%
                                                                                         P(hit VT)=4.5/11=40.9%
So, there's a slightly higher chance of hitting PR. But, if people think their scum, it could increase the chance that they're actually scum.
I think lynching me is the safe option, as we definitely won't hit PR.
Trying to lynch someone else is a riskier option, but could have really good rewards.

[Teproc]

Just a heads up that I'm going out now and will only be back around deadline, but if a lynch happens in the meantime, expect a long twilight.

[faust]

I'm still here, and I still like the Joseph lynch.

Fine, have it your way. Vote: Awaclus

[silverspawn]

I'm still here, and I still like the Joseph lynch.

Fine, have it your way. Vote: Awaclus

I'll sheep that

vote: Awaclus

I really don't like it if you vote me fyi

[Awaclus]

I'm a vanilla townie. Joseph is obviously scum, we should lynch him.

[Witherweaver]

Will be here before 11 (an hour before deadline), but probably not at deadline. 

Awaclus is a good choice.

[Awaclus]

Awaclus is a bad choice.

[Joseph2302]

Awaclus claimed VT, so from my perspective, lynching him cannot be worse than lynching me. Vote: Awaclus.

[Witherweaver]

Awaclus claimed VT, so from my perspective, lynching him cannot be worse than lynching me. Vote: Awaclus.

.....

If you're town, you know you are, but you don't know Awaclus is...

[Joseph2302]

Awaclus claimed VT, so from my perspective, lynching him cannot be worse than lynching me. Vote: Awaclus.

.....

If you're town, you know you are, but you don't know Awaclus is...

No but if I'm town, then if Awaclus is scum, lynching him is good. If he's VT, then it's got the same value as lynching me, and if he's PR then it's bad. But I think PR claiming VT is bad claim, so he wouldn't do it.

[Awaclus]

Awaclus claimed VT, so from my perspective, lynching him cannot be worse than lynching me. Vote: Awaclus.

.....

If you're town, you know you are, but you don't know Awaclus is...

No but if I'm town, then if Awaclus is scum, lynching him is good. If he's VT, then it's got the same value as lynching me, and if he's PR then it's bad. But I think PR claiming VT is bad claim, so he wouldn't do it.

If you're town. As it is, you're scum and lynching me is good anyway because I'm town.

[silverspawn]

of course you would claim to be town if you were scum.

[Joseph2302]

of course you would claim to be town if you were scum.

Yes obviously.

Awaclus claimed VT, so from my perspective, lynching him cannot be worse than lynching me. Vote: Awaclus.

.....

If you're town, you know you are, but you don't know Awaclus is...

No but if I'm town, then if Awaclus is scum, lynching him is good. If he's VT, then it's got the same value as lynching me, and if he's PR then it's bad. But I think PR claiming VT is bad claim, so he wouldn't do it.

If you're town. As it is, you're scum and lynching me is good anyway because I'm town.

But I'm actually town. So lynching you, a VT or scum, is not bad.

[silverspawn]

oh, I was talking to Awaclus

[EgorK]

Mmm. How much on Awaclus and how much on Joseph?

I finally worked through all things happened during my vacation so will now have time

[Awaclus]

Mmm. How much on Awaclus and how much on Joseph?

I finally worked through all things happened during my vacation so will now have time

I think I'm at L-3 and Joseph is at L-2.

[Joseph2302]

oh, I was talking to Awaclus

Oh okay. Although it is true of me also.

Mmm. How much on Awaclus and how much on Joseph?

I finally worked through all things happened during my vacation so will now have time

I think I'm at L-3 and Joseph is at L-2.

I'm at L-1, unless anyone's unvoted from me.

[Joseph2302]

Last vote count:

Vote Count 1.13

Joseph2302 (6): chairs, Awaclus, Ichimaru Gin, Seprix, silverspawn, A Drowned Kernel  {L-1}
Awaclus (2): Witherweaver, Hydrad

Since then, faust, silverspawn I have voted Awaclus, putting him on 5 (L-2).
As silverspawn was voting me, I also have 5 votes (L-2).

[Witherweaver]

I think it might be 5 on Awaclus  My and Hydrad were on last vote count, and then I think there were three more.  So that would be L-2.

PPE

[EgorK]

Between 2 of them I would Vote: Awaclus

I would vote for Joseph would he claim PR for reasons

[EgorK]

And this is L-1 I believe

[chairs]

I feel like this is that SSB moment when you see A New Challenger Appears!

Since Awaclus has already claimed VT, and I find his exchange with Joseph to be scummy of both of them..

vote: awaclus AND MY HAMMER

[A Drowned Kernel]

Well I guess that's not a terrible lynch.

[silverspawn]

I think that's a really good lynch.

[Witherweaver]

Teproc said he won't be back until deadline, so we have twilight.

[silverspawn]

good book

[A Drowned Kernel]

Thoughts, awaclus? Last reads?

[silverspawn]

who cares about reads. are you scum? scum!awaclus usually doesn't pretend during twilight.

[silverspawn]

yea, let us not lynch me. or faust, joseph, awaclus, seprix, or ADK.

-.- why did I include awaclus on this list? I don't even remember. #inconsitencyisatowntell

[Witherweaver]

yea, let us not lynch me. or faust, joseph, awaclus, seprix, or ADK.

-.- why did I include awaclus on this list? I don't even remember. #inconsitencyisatowntell

I'm pretty sure I said earlier that Awaclus would be okay and you said no.

[Joseph2302]

Glad people finally agreed Awaclus was scummy. He's been high on my scum reads for a few days, and no-one's done anything.

Also, silverspawn is feeling less scummy to me now, he's more of a null read than slightly scum.

[A Drowned Kernel]

who cares about reads. are you scum? scum!awaclus usually doesn't pretend during twilight.

If he is town he can give us his last reads/thoughts.

[A Drowned Kernel]

He was online but didn't post anything, so I guess we're not going to get anything.

[Awaclus]

Yeah, well, I'm the town watcher. I figured it'd be best to claim VT since there's the rolestopper that doesn't stop the kill so either way I would have been dead tonight, and the chance of a Joseph lynch happening instead seemed better than having scum waste one rolestopping shot.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I really hope you're scum because otherwise that's terrible.

[Awaclus]

Well, I still think Joseph and XP are scummy. silverspawn and faust are suspicious, but I wouldn't want to lynch them before seeing Joseph's flip.

[Awaclus]

And yeah, I'm not scum and this is terrible.

[Witherweaver]

  How do we always manage to lynch Watchers right away?

[Witherweaver]

Well, this could be a clever troll to eliminate the pool of possible PRs.

[Awaclus]

Well, this could be a clever troll to eliminate the pool of possible PRs.

Not sure how that would help if I was scum. It's not like anyone's going to counterclaim now, and you'll see my flip before anyone gets to do anything relevant anyway.

[Witherweaver]

Well, this could be a clever troll to eliminate the pool of possible PRs.

Not sure how that would help if I was scum. It's not like anyone's going to counterclaim now, and you'll see my flip before anyone gets to do anything relevant anyway.

Certain reactions to your posts could indicate that that player is not the real Watcher.

[silverspawn]

... ew.

[Awaclus]

Glad people finally agreed Awaclus was scummy. He's been high on my scum reads for a few days, and no-one's done anything.

I haven't been high! But seriously, I have a hard time seeing how it's even possible to find me scummy here if you've played games with me before, this is exactly what I've always done as town, and tried and failed to do as scum (well, at least in normal games).

[faust]

Well... assuming you're town, Awaclus: that's why you don't lie as town.

[faust]

That hammer by chairs is very weird. I'm not quite sure what to make of it.

[Joseph2302]

Well... assuming you're town, Awaclus: that's why you don't lie as town.

I agree. VT was okay to lynch, scum was good to lynch, PR was bad to lynch.

PPE:2

[Joseph2302]

Also, crap. (assuming he is PR)

[Awaclus]

Well... assuming you're town, Awaclus: that's why you don't lie as town.

But like I said, we know that scum has a rolestopper so even if we have a doctor that could protect me, scum can just rolestop me and kill me anyway, and I thought a Joseph lynch was more likely to happen than it apparently was.

[Awaclus]

Well... assuming you're town, Awaclus: that's why you don't lie as town.

I agree. VT was okay to lynch, scum was good to lynch, PR was bad to lynch.

PPE:2

Lynching me isn't much worse than lynching a VT. Now, a VT probably gets NK'd, and tomorrow we have a dead VT and a dead me. If I would have claimed and we would have lynched a VT instead, I would have gotten NK'd, and tomorrow we have a dead VT and a dead me anyway. Sure, now there's a chance they'll hit another PR instead, and they don't have to use a rolestopping shot, but well, I didn't know I was going to get lynched in the first place.

[Teproc]

THREAD LOCKED

[Teproc]

Final Vote Count

Awaclus (7): Witherweaver, Hydrad, faust, silverspawn, Joseph2302, Egork, chairs

Joseph2302 (4): Awaclus, Ichimaru Gin, Seprix, A Drowned Kernel
Egork
XerxesPraelor (1): Twistedarcher
Witherweaver (1): XerxesPraelor

With 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch.


Awaclus has been lynched. He was the Town Watcher

Night 1 will last 48 hours. Every player must check in via PM (or QT) with me during the night.

[Teproc]

Witherweaver has been killed in the night. He was a Vanilla Townie.

Day 2 begins !

Vote Count 2.0

Not Voting (11): Hydrad, Egork, Ichimaru Gin, A Drowned Kernel, Joseph2302, XerxesPraelor, silverspawn, faust, Seprix, Twistedarcher, chairs

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 2 ends at 01:00 p.m. on February 21, 2015.

[Joseph2302]

At least it's not a PR dead.

chairs, why did you hammer when you did?

[Hydrad]

And were back. That was a shock to wake up and realize joseph actually lived.

[Hydrad]

yea, let us not lynch me. or faust, joseph, awaclus, seprix, or ADK.

-.- why did I include awaclus on this list? I don't even remember. #inconsitencyisatowntell

Don't like this.

Vote: SS

[Twistedarcher]

I completely missed the lynch, but was surprised to see joseph claimVT. i would have lynched, i'm fairly certain he softclaimed a PR early, let me go find it.

[Twistedarcher]

I completely missed the lynch, but was surprised to see joseph claimVT. i would have lynched, i'm fairly certain he softclaimed a PR early, let me go find it.

I guess this was mistaken, I couldn't find the post, but I thought he was insinuating early on that "lynching me would be very bad for town", which I took to mean he was a PR, but it looks like I was just wrong.

[XerxesPraelor]

I was telling people all of D1 awalcus was a bad lynch.

vote: chairs

vote: Joseph

Vote: silverspawn

Vote: Faust

Vote: hydrad

Vote: Joseph

[Seprix]

That's a lot of votes. :p You've only got one.

Do we lynch Joseph now? I'm still not sure I like it, but man, you can't play scummier than that.

[Ichimaru Gin]

And were back. That was a shock to wake up and realize joseph actually lived.

Wha? Why would that surprise you?

vote: Joseph I'm dissapointed at the last minute switch while I was asleep. Everyone on the Awaclus wagon is scummier to me.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Nevermind. Man, I must be really out of it. For some reason I though that you thought that Joseph would be the NK (which made no sense to me). But you were talking about him getting lynched and you didn't get a chance to post earlier.

[Teproc]

Vote Count 2.1

Joseph2302 (2): XerxesPraelor, Ichimaru Gin
silverspawn (1): Hydrad

Not Voting (8 ): Egork, A Drowned Kernel, Joseph2302, silverspawn, faust, Seprix, Twistedarcher, chairs

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 2 ends at 01:00 p.m. on February 21, 2015.

[Seprix]

vote: Joseph

[faust]

Well, that Awaclus wagon was weird. But I think he brought it on himself. Man, lying town is horrible.

I still don't believe in scum!Joseph. His last posts - "hey, lynching me isn't the worst thing ever" - don't read scummy to me. Now you can argue that Joseph is just being competent scum here, but I believe everyone on the Joseph wagon is arguing that he ISN'T competent scum, so there's that.

[silverspawn]

yeah, so... I still don't think that lynching Awaclus was bad play. And I still don't want to lynch Joseph.

And were back. That was a shock to wake up and realize joseph actually lived.

*we're

uhm... okay.

I was telling people all of D1 awalcus was a bad lynch.

well you always have a pretty high chance of being right with that statement.

That's a lot of votes. :p You've only got one.

Do we lynch Joseph now? I'm still not sure I like it, but man, you can't play scummier than that.

you are town.

I completely missed the lynch, but was surprised to see joseph claimVT. i would have lynched, i'm fairly certain he softclaimed a PR early, let me go find it.

this is interesting... scum!TA would pay attention to PR slips. But he wouldn't mess it up, would he?

vote: chairs for now

[Twistedarcher]

Well, that Awaclus wagon was weird. But I think he brought it on himself. Man, lying town is horrible.

I still don't believe in scum!Joseph. His last posts - "hey, lynching me isn't the worst thing ever" - don't read scummy to me. Now you can argue that Joseph is just being competent scum here, but I believe everyone on the Joseph wagon is arguing that he ISN'T competent scum, so there's that.

You were voting him before his lie, how can you justify his lynch that way when you were voting him beforehand?

[Joseph2302]

Not sure why everyone switched to Awaclus, when we were both claimed VT? I fully expected to be lynched D1. For me it made sense, as I'd assumed he wasn't a lying PR. For others I was confused by their decision to lynch him not me. chairs especially, why did you hammer at that moment?

[XerxesPraelor]

Well, that Awaclus wagon was weird. But I think he brought it on himself. Man, lying town is horrible.

I still don't believe in scum!Joseph. His last posts - "hey, lynching me isn't the worst thing ever" - don't read scummy to me. Now you can argue that Joseph is just being competent scum here, but I believe everyone on the Joseph wagon is arguing that he ISN'T competent scum, so there's that.

Whatever you want - I refuse to believe that wagon was towndriven, and that leaves me with you and silverspawn by POE.

vote: faust

[Hydrad]

Well, that Awaclus wagon was weird. But I think he brought it on himself. Man, lying town is horrible.

I still don't believe in scum!Joseph. His last posts - "hey, lynching me isn't the worst thing ever" - don't read scummy to me. Now you can argue that Joseph is just being competent scum here, but I believe everyone on the Joseph wagon is arguing that he ISN'T competent scum, so there's that.

Whatever you want - I refuse to believe that wagon was towndriven, and that leaves me with you and silverspawn by POE.

vote: faust

I agree. But I feel like SS is the scummier one. faust seems normal to me still.

[Hydrad]

Also WW night kill? That was unexpected.

He was the one who started awaclus right? So that would normally make him scummier since he was wrong. Plus he thought Joseph was town. So scum might be trying to mislynch Joseph? I dunno overall a weird night kill.

I'm going to quickly look and see if there are any other reads I can find.

[Hydrad]

So this was his reads list.

I don't really have a scum read on Ichi.  I don't have a huge one on anyone else.  Currently the people I'd like to not lynch are:

Hydrad
Xerxes
Twisted Archer

Probably not Ichi, Faust, ADK, Seprix either. 

Vote: Silverspawn

Then after this near deadline he voted awaclus.

I didn't see anything that looked liked a PR slip so this makes my vote on SS even stronger.

[faust]

Well, that Awaclus wagon was weird. But I think he brought it on himself. Man, lying town is horrible.

I still don't believe in scum!Joseph. His last posts - "hey, lynching me isn't the worst thing ever" - don't read scummy to me. Now you can argue that Joseph is just being competent scum here, but I believe everyone on the Joseph wagon is arguing that he ISN'T competent scum, so there's that.

You were voting him before his lie, how can you justify his lynch that way when you were voting him beforehand?

I voted for him because his play annoyed me, and I didn't mind his lynch. It was not a super serious "I want to lynch Awaclus no matter what" vote. Had he claimed his real role, I (and many others) would certainly have switched/never voted for him in the first place.

[faust]

Well, that Awaclus wagon was weird. But I think he brought it on himself. Man, lying town is horrible.

I still don't believe in scum!Joseph. His last posts - "hey, lynching me isn't the worst thing ever" - don't read scummy to me. Now you can argue that Joseph is just being competent scum here, but I believe everyone on the Joseph wagon is arguing that he ISN'T competent scum, so there's that.

Whatever you want - I refuse to believe that wagon was towndriven, and that leaves me with you and silverspawn by POE.

vote: faust

Could you tell the rest of us people in the dark what brings you to this clairvoyant insight?

[faust]

Also WW night kill? That was unexpected.

He was the one who started awaclus right? So that would normally make him scummier since he was wrong. Plus he thought Joseph was town. So scum might be trying to mislynch Joseph? I dunno overall a weird night kill.

I'm going to quickly look and see if there are any other reads I can find.

How is the WW kill unexpected? Who did you expect to be killed?

[faust]

Town points for Ichi and Seprix by the way - I don't think their votes are good, but I also don't think that scum would be that quick to jump what seems to be the default lynch today.

[Joseph2302]

I think the important people to look at the moment are those on-wagon:

Final Vote Count

Awaclus (7): Witherweaver, Hydrad, faust, silverspawn, Joseph2302, Egork, chairs

I'll post my thoughts later, I'm kind of busy with something else at the moment.

[Hydrad]

Also WW night kill? That was unexpected.

He was the one who started awaclus right? So that would normally make him scummier since he was wrong. Plus he thought Joseph was town. So scum might be trying to mislynch Joseph? I dunno overall a weird night kill.

I'm going to quickly look and see if there are any other reads I can find.

How is the WW kill unexpected? Who did you expect to be killed?

I don't know. Maybe someone off wagon who may have seemed townier as the were right?

WW just feels odd as I felt like he would undergo suspicion today for starting that wagon but then he got killed instead.

[Joseph2302]

Final Vote Count

Awaclus (7): Witherweaver, Hydrad, faust, silverspawn, Joseph2302, Egork, chairs

So, here's my thoughts on these people:
WW- dead
Hydrad- thought Awaclus was better lynch than me (#490)
faust- voted Awaclus after Awaclus said he like his vote on me (#507). Bit of a null read, although if faust thinks I'm town, that's good, as he's 100% on reads on me.
silverspawn- joined the wagon because Awaclus voted for him. Makes sense a bit. #533 less so though
Joseph2302- me. I assumed he would lie, so assuming that it made sense for me to lynch him (#512/#514).
EgorK- IC
chairs- still don't know why he chose to hammer at that moment. I'm kind of suspicious about it. He only said that he found us both scummy, but could have put me on L-1 instead. After all, I'd implied that lynching me wasn't the worst.

Vote: chairs. not too sure on silverspawn though, I'm not convinced inconsistency is a town tell.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm still feeling vote: joseph

[Joseph2302]

I'm still feeling vote: joseph

This is L-2 I believe.

And again I'm going to say, I'm VT, so you need to weigh up considerations of lynching me vs lynching someone else. If I'm lynched, then assuming a NK, it'll be 6 town, 3 scum, which isn't super-good, but isn't terrible. If you lynch someone else, it could change this ratio to 7/2, which is really good, or 6/3 and an extra PR dead, which is worse.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm still feeling vote: joseph

This is L-2 I believe.

And again I'm going to say, I'm VT, so you need to weigh up considerations of lynching me vs lynching someone else. If I'm lynched, then assuming a NK, it'll be 6 town, 3 scum, which isn't super-good, but isn't terrible. If you lynch someone else, it could change this ratio to 7/2, which is really good, or 6/3 and an extra PR dead, which is worse.

Why would I be vote for you while making the assumption that you're town?

[Teproc]

Vote Count 2.2

Joseph2302 (3): Ichimaru Gin, Seprix, A Drowned Kernel
chairs (2): silverspawn, Joseph2302
silverspawn (1): Hydrad
faust (1): XerxesPraelor

Not Voting (4): Egork, faust, Twistedarcher, chairs

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 2 ends at 01:00 p.m. on February 21, 2015.

[Joseph2302]

I'm still feeling vote: joseph

This is L-2 I believe.

And again I'm going to say, I'm VT, so you need to weigh up considerations of lynching me vs lynching someone else. If I'm lynched, then assuming a NK, it'll be 6 town, 3 scum, which isn't super-good, but isn't terrible. If you lynch someone else, it could change this ratio to 7/2, which is really good, or 6/3 and an extra PR dead, which is worse.

Why would I be vote for you while making the assumption that you're town?

I guess you think I'm scummy.
But I'm VT, so I was listing the possibilities if we lynch me and I'm VT, compared to if we lynch someone else.

[Joseph2302]

I think hitting PR again here would be super-bad, but I want to hit scum more I think. Lynching me and having 6/3 split isn't very good, it's 1 step away from LYLO.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm not exactly sure what point you're trying to make here. That lynching town is bad? Yes, thank you. But I don't think that you're town.

[faust]

I think the important people to look at the moment are those on-wagon:

Final Vote Count

Awaclus (7): Witherweaver, Hydrad, faust, silverspawn, Joseph2302, Egork, chairs

I'll post my thoughts later, I'm kind of busy with something else at the moment.

Why do you think that players on wagon are scummier?

[Joseph2302]

I think the important people to look at the moment are those on-wagon:

Final Vote Count

Awaclus (7): Witherweaver, Hydrad, faust, silverspawn, Joseph2302, Egork, chairs

I'll post my thoughts later, I'm kind of busy with something else at the moment.

Why do you think that players on wagon are scummier?

I think that lynching Awaclus from basically nowhere was really weird. And weird can mean scummy. Like seriously, why Awaclus and not me? It looked for 6.5 days like I was dead, then suddenly I'm not.

[silverspawn]

I think the important people to look at the moment are those on-wagon:

Final Vote Count

Awaclus (7): Witherweaver, Hydrad, faust, silverspawn, Joseph2302, Egork, chairs

I'll post my thoughts later, I'm kind of busy with something else at the moment.

Why do you think that players on wagon are scummier?

I think that lynching Awaclus from basically nowhere was really weird. And weird can mean scummy. Like seriously, why Awaclus and not me? It looked for 6.5 days like I was dead, then suddenly I'm not.

because the way you behaved under continuous pressure made me think you're not scum.

[Seprix]

I think hitting PR again here would be super-bad, but I want to hit scum more I think. Lynching me and having 6/3 split isn't very good, it's 1 step away from LYLO.

Ugh.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I think that the "people who are on-wagon are scummier" argument only really makes sense if you think that joseph is scum, because it means that scum jumped on an alternate wagon to avoid a joseph lynch. So, we should lynch joseph.

[silverspawn]

yeah joseph's arguments make no sense

[A Drowned Kernel]

I mean, it makes sense from the perspective that he's scum, which might be why he's making it. Because, you know, he's scum.

[Joseph2302]

I disagree it makes no sense, as we went from killing me (claimed VT) to killing PR, which is worse.
I looked on-lynch first because the lynch was weird, as it came from nowhere, especially since I implied I was okay with my own D1 lynch, because I was VT.
I haven't found much there very scummy, so at some point I'll look off-wagon as well.

PPE: 1

[silverspawn]

I mean, it makes sense from the perspective that he's scum, which might be why he's making it. Because, you know, he's scum.

does scum really talk so much... well, fluff?

[faust]

I disagree it makes no sense, as we went from killing me (claimed VT) to killing PR, which is worse.
I looked on-lynch first because the lynch was weird, as it came from nowhere, especially since I implied I was okay with my own D1 lynch, because I was VT.
I haven't found much there very scummy, so at some point I'll look off-wagon as well.

PPE: 1

You should note that we went from lynching you (claimed VT) to lynching Awaclus (claimed VT). There's really not a big difference. Noone (including scum) could know that Awaclus was lying.

[faust]

I think that the "people who are on-wagon are scummier" argument only really makes sense if you think that joseph is scum, because it means that scum jumped on an alternate wagon to avoid a joseph lynch. So, we should lynch joseph.

I agree with this except the last part.

[Joseph2302]

I disagree it makes no sense, as we went from killing me (claimed VT) to killing PR, which is worse.
I looked on-lynch first because the lynch was weird, as it came from nowhere, especially since I implied I was okay with my own D1 lynch, because I was VT.
I haven't found much there very scummy, so at some point I'll look off-wagon as well.

PPE: 1

You should note that we went from lynching you (claimed VT) to lynching Awaclus (claimed VT). There's really not a big difference. Noone (including scum) could know that Awaclus was lying.

True, but part of my confusion is why people switched from a claimed VT to a different claimed VT.

[Seprix]

Why is an 'easy lynch' so damned hard?

[Joseph2302]

Why is an 'easy lynch' so damned hard?

Because there's still 6 days to make it. Also, sometimes the easy lynch can be too easy, and that's the case here.

[Seprix]

I mean, i think we should stop double guessing here. Joseph's play has been terrible. I was okay with a different day 1 lynch, which ended horribly. I don't think there is even another candidate here for Day 2.

[silverspawn]

what about chairs?

[Hydrad]

I don't understand why chairs is gaining most of the heat by being on the wagon. That hammer didn't look scummy to me at all. All of us on the wagon knew that we were voting to get awaclus lynched. Plus it was near the end of the day so someone needed to die.

Looked like a normal hammer to me.

[faust]

I disagree it makes no sense, as we went from killing me (claimed VT) to killing PR, which is worse.
I looked on-lynch first because the lynch was weird, as it came from nowhere, especially since I implied I was okay with my own D1 lynch, because I was VT.
I haven't found much there very scummy, so at some point I'll look off-wagon as well.

PPE: 1

You should note that we went from lynching you (claimed VT) to lynching Awaclus (claimed VT). There's really not a big difference. Noone (including scum) could know that Awaclus was lying.

True, but part of my confusion is why people switched from a claimed VT to a different claimed VT.

You know, maybe because they thought one scummier than the other? Is that so hard to believe?

[Twistedarcher]

Well, that Awaclus wagon was weird. But I think he brought it on himself. Man, lying town is horrible.

I still don't believe in scum!Joseph. His last posts - "hey, lynching me isn't the worst thing ever" - don't read scummy to me. Now you can argue that Joseph is just being competent scum here, but I believe everyone on the Joseph wagon is arguing that he ISN'T competent scum, so there's that.

You were voting him before his lie, how can you justify his lynch that way when you were voting him beforehand?

I voted for him because his play annoyed me, and I didn't mind his lynch. It was not a super serious "I want to lynch Awaclus no matter what" vote. Had he claimed his real role, I (and many others) would certainly have switched/never voted for him in the first place.

Right, but it's not really a way to excuse the wagon, which is looks like you're doing. Saying that 'well, he lied, so that's less scummy to people on his wagon' isn't true, since no one in the game (scum or town) would have known he was lying).

Vote: Faust

[Ichimaru Gin]

I was never really a fan of the Awaclus lynch (obviously). I agree with Seprix that Joseph is the obvious person to be lynched today. From those defending Joseph, I'm mostly hearing "he's too scummy to be scum", which is terrible. He's too scummy to be left alive is more like it.

PPE: 1

[faust]

Well, that Awaclus wagon was weird. But I think he brought it on himself. Man, lying town is horrible.

I still don't believe in scum!Joseph. His last posts - "hey, lynching me isn't the worst thing ever" - don't read scummy to me. Now you can argue that Joseph is just being competent scum here, but I believe everyone on the Joseph wagon is arguing that he ISN'T competent scum, so there's that.

You were voting him before his lie, how can you justify his lynch that way when you were voting him beforehand?

I voted for him because his play annoyed me, and I didn't mind his lynch. It was not a super serious "I want to lynch Awaclus no matter what" vote. Had he claimed his real role, I (and many others) would certainly have switched/never voted for him in the first place.

Right, but it's not really a way to excuse the wagon, which is looks like you're doing. Saying that 'well, he lied, so that's less scummy to people on his wagon' isn't true, since no one in the game (scum or town) would have known he was lying).

Vote: Faust

I don't quite understand. I think both Joseph or Awaclus are probably town, so on which of both wagons a player was is not really an alignment tell.

If Awaclus wouldn't have lied and claimed his real role, he wouldn't have been lynched. Arguably, if Awaclus hadn't claimed prematurely at all, he might not have been lynched.

I'm not "excusing the wagon", I'm not even sure what you mean by that.

[chairs]

Back from my weekend (which by the way was why I opted to hammer at the time I did).

Disappointed that Awaclus was a PR.

D2 play just continues to make me want to vote for joseph, but it's too early in the day to be sold on that.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Back from my weekend (which by the way was why I opted to hammer at the time I did).

Disappointed that Awaclus was a PR.

D2 play just continues to make me want to vote for joseph, but it's too early in the day to be sold on that.

I reiterate, it's never too early for a lynch. We waited yesterday, and ended up switching to a town PR.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Back from my weekend (which by the way was why I opted to hammer at the time I did).

Disappointed that Awaclus was a PR.

D2 play just continues to make me want to vote for joseph, but it's too early in the day to be sold on that.

I reiterate, it's never too early for a lynch. We waited yesterday, and ended up switching to a town PR.

So this. I can't believe the last minute switch to Awaclus that happened yesterday. Joseph himself finds it hard to believe too! That being said, I don't want to insta-lynch him. This day shouldn't drag on to another last-minute lynch, but I also don't want it cut super short either.

[Joseph2302]

Back from my weekend (which by the way was why I opted to hammer at the time I did).

I guess I can accept that, Unvote: chairs.

Also, I'm V/LA with limited posting time.

[Teproc]

Vote Count 2.3

Joseph2302 (3): Ichimaru Gin, Seprix, A Drowned Kernel
faust (2): XerxesPraelor, Twistedarcher
chairs (1): silverspawn
silverspawn (1): Hydrad

Not Voting (4): Egork, faust, chairs, Joseph2302

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 2 ends at 01:00 p.m. on February 21, 2015

[Joseph2302]

Back from my weekend (which by the way was why I opted to hammer at the time I did).

Disappointed that Awaclus was a PR.

D2 play just continues to make me want to vote for joseph, but it's too early in the day to be sold on that.

I reiterate, it's never too early for a lynch. We waited yesterday, and ended up switching to a town PR.

I disagree, it's too early for a lynch if you've only considered one person, and haven't got a plan for when they flip town. I think a lynch now would always be too early IMO, this is independent of the fact you want to lynch me.
Vote: ADK, because I cannot see how a quicklynch of anyone is good here.

[Hydrad]

Hmm no one likes my SS vote.

Also I will agree with ADK on this one. I don't think quickish lynches are completely terrible.

[chairs]

I think a quicklynch does do one big thing for us - gets joseph's lynch out of the way, for good or for ill, and lets us move on with the game.  ADK is right - D1's dragging directly led to the Awaclus lynch, because we all waffled on the joe lynch long enough for an argument to be made.  Here we still have the same "should we lynch joe" moment going on, and it's shaping the conversation, distracting from other things.

vote: joseph L-1

[EgorK]

Wait a bit, guys

[silverspawn]

I think a quicklynch does do one big thing for us - gets joseph's lynch out of the way, for good or for ill, and lets us move on with the game.  ADK is right - D1's dragging directly led to the Awaclus lynch, because we all waffled on the joe lynch long enough for an argument to be made.  Here we still have the same "should we lynch joe" moment going on, and it's shaping the conversation, distracting from other things.

vote: joseph L-1

nah. vote: chairs

[faust]

I think a quicklynch does do one big thing for us - gets joseph's lynch out of the way, for good or for ill, and lets us move on with the game.  ADK is right - D1's dragging directly led to the Awaclus lynch, because we all waffled on the joe lynch long enough for an argument to be made.  Here we still have the same "should we lynch joe" moment going on, and it's shaping the conversation, distracting from other things.

vote: joseph L-1

Vote: chairs

[Joseph2302]

Omgus chairs, L -1 is so bad. I'm not scummy, I don't see why you think I am. Scum is so massively playing you all - getting a weird D1 mislynch, and then leaving me for the next mislynch target. Vote: chairs .

[Hydrad]

I think chairs is towny.

Also Joseph even though I still think your town you tend to enjoy doing a lot of things that I feel scum would in that situation.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I think a quicklynch does do one big thing for us - gets joseph's lynch out of the way, for good or for ill, and lets us move on with the game.  ADK is right - D1's dragging directly led to the Awaclus lynch, because we all waffled on the joe lynch long enough for an argument to be made.  Here we still have the same "should we lynch joe" moment going on, and it's shaping the conversation, distracting from other things.

vote: joseph L-1

I agree with chairs assessment here. This is the way town thinks, not scum.

[Twistedarcher]

Omgus chairs, L -1 is so bad. I'm not scummy, I don't see why you think I am. Scum is so massively playing you all - getting a weird D1 mislynch, and then leaving me for the next mislynch target. Vote: chairs .

Your entire defense this game has been "but I'm not scum". You need to do better than that...

[Twistedarcher]

I think chairs is towny.

Also Joseph even though I still think your town you tend to enjoy doing a lot of things that I feel scum would in that situation.

Agree with this. Joseph is doing every stereotypical scum action, but i don't think he's scum.

[Joseph2302]

I think chairs is towny.

Also Joseph even though I still think your town you tend to enjoy doing a lot of things that I feel scum would in that situation.

I must just have a scummy meta, caused by being scum too often. Don't think I'm been super scummy this game, it's your mistake to make people.

[Seprix]

I think chairs is towny.

Also Joseph even though I still think your town you tend to enjoy doing a lot of things that I feel scum would in that situation.

I must just have a scummy meta, caused by being scum too often. Don't think I'm been super scummy this game, it's your mistake to make people.

Is anyone reading anything Joseph says?

[A Drowned Kernel]

I think chairs is towny.

Also Joseph even though I still think your town you tend to enjoy doing a lot of things that I feel scum would in that situation.

I must just have a scummy meta, caused by being scum too often. Don't think I'm been super scummy this game, it's your mistake to make people.

Is anyone reading anything Joseph says?

Why do you think I'm voting for him?

[XerxesPraelor]

I'm thinking about hammering.

[Seprix]

Mafia land has been pretty quiet.

What is everyone currently doing? I am playing my New 3DS.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I'm thinking about hammering.

Do it.

[Seprix]

I'm thinking about hammering.

FTFY

[Ichimaru Gin]

ahahaha. What am I doing? I just picked up Borderlands 2 and it's sucking up all my free time; the game's frickin amazing.

@XP this day is already stalling because everyone knows that Joseph is the only lynch for today. I believe in you!

[Hydrad]

ahahaha. What am I doing? I just picked up Borderlands 2 and it's sucking up all my free time; the game's frickin amazing.

@XP this day is already stalling because everyone knows that Joseph is the only lynch for today. I believe in you!

Wow weird I just started borderlands 2 like 2 days ago also.

Also still would rather see SS or someone other then Joseph.

[XerxesPraelor]

vote: joseph

[Ichimaru Gin]

Haha yeah. I picked it up cause it was on sale. I'll probably post something in the Steam Group thread.

Joseph is the only lynch for today though. Yet XP also posted in the VLA thread, so I'm not sure if he's around right now.

PPE: Yes!

[XerxesPraelor]

Looks like it isn't a hammer. Chairs thought it was L-1 when it wasn't.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Looks like it isn't a hammer. Chairs thought it was L-1 when it wasn't.

Well that sucks.

[XerxesPraelor]

Someone else come vote?

[Twistedarcher]

I think chairs is towny.

Also Joseph even though I still think your town you tend to enjoy doing a lot of things that I feel scum would in that situation.

I must just have a scummy meta, caused by being scum too often. Don't think I'm been super scummy this game, it's your mistake to make people.

Can you please give your reasons ? You haven't really put up a defense other than saying over and lver ypu're town. Who are your scum reads?

[EgorK]

Are there fire somewhere? Why we are in such hurry?

Annotated rereads would be appreciated

[Joseph2302]

I think chairs is towny.

Also Joseph even though I still think your town you tend to enjoy doing a lot of things that I feel scum would in that situation.

I must just have a scummy meta, caused by being scum too often. Don't think I'm been super scummy this game, it's your mistake to make people.

Can you please give your reasons ? You haven't really put up a defense other than saying over and lver ypu're town. Who are your scum reads?

Sorry, I'm busy IRL at the moment. Will post reads later today.

[Joseph2302]

Please can people at least let me do that, before you mislynch me?

[Ichimaru Gin]

Please can people at least let me do that, before you mislynch me?

Eh. It can't hurt.

Boys, hold off the lynching til then!

[faust]

Can't decide if chairs or Xerxes have been scummier here.

[faust]

Xerxes: What were your reasons for (as you thought) hammering?

[faust]

Also hammering someone during their VLA is bad style regardless of reads.

[faust]

Everyone on the Joseph wagon: Do you have any other reads?

[Teproc]

Vote Count 2.4

Joseph2302 (5): Ichimaru Gin, Seprix, A Drowned Kernel, chairs, XerxesPraelor       {L-1}
chairs (3): silverspawn, faust, Joseph2302
faust (1): Twistedarcher
silverspawn (1): Hydrad

Not Voting (1): Egork

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 2 ends at 01:00 p.m. on February 21, 2015.

[XerxesPraelor]

Xerxes: What were your reasons for (as you thought) hammering?

He's been scummy a long time, the game is stagnating, there was a weird wagon at the end of D1 that looked redirected from scum to town.

[Seprix]

I had orange juice mixed with mango and banana this morning. It was fantastic.

I think it's bad when you could compile a shorter list of what towny things Joseph then scummy things.

[Seprix]

I had orange juice mixed with mango and banana this morning. It was fantastic.

I think it's bad when you could compile a shorter list of what towny things Joseph did then scummy things.

Oops. I was too busy enjoying my drink :p

[Seprix]

I had orange juice mixed with mango and banana this morning. It was fantastic.

I think it's bad when you could compile a shorter list of what towny things Joseph did than scummy things.

Oops. I was too busy enjoying my drink :p

Man, I'm tired. I can't spell this morning. Maybe it's the juice.

Anyways, I'm going to look at alternative options for lynches later on, but I don't want to lynch anyone else but Joseph today simply because he's been playing so bad that people are starting to think his bad play is good...? No, no. Let's not double guess ourselves here. He claimed VT, he's been wrong about just everything anyways, why do we need his scum reads? I mean, sure. Let's stick around for that. But should we even listen at this point? Ugh. I'm tired of talking about Joseph.

At least this juice is yummy.

[Joseph2302]

1. Hydrad- getting a mild town read.
2. Egork- IC
3. Ichimaru Gin- seems super-intent on lynching me. Null read, but when I flip VT, I would consider him for lynching D3.
4. A Drowned Kernel- seems super-intent on lynching me. Null read, but when I flip VT, I would consider him for lynching D3.
5. Joseph2302- me, VT
6. XerxesPraelor- has flipped from supporting & condemning me. Null/tiny bit scummy read.
7. Awaclus- dead
8. Silverspawn- originally thought a bit scumy, but more null read now.
9. faust- seems towny
10. Witherweaver-dead
11. Seprix- still think town, even though he's intent on mislynching me. I just can't see him being scum and reacting like he did in the whole #207-215ish thing.
12. Twistedarcher- towny to me.
13. chairs- getting a general scummy feeling from him. Hammered Awaclus, put me on L-1. This is likely to lead to 2 mislynches.

So, my current scum lynches would be chairs, XP, maybe ADK (although people will only be able to agree with my logic works if I'm dead). I like my vote on chairs for now.

[faust]

1. Hydrad- getting a mild town read.
2. Egork- IC
3. Ichimaru Gin- seems super-intent on lynching me. Null read, but when I flip VT, I would consider him for lynching D3.
4. A Drowned Kernel- seems super-intent on lynching me. Null read, but when I flip VT, I would consider him for lynching D3.
5. Joseph2302- me, VT
6. XerxesPraelor- has flipped from supporting & condemning me. Null/tiny bit scummy read.
7. Awaclus- dead
8. Silverspawn- originally thought a bit scumy, but more null read now.
9. faust- seems towny
10. Witherweaver-dead
11. Seprix- still think town, even though he's intent on mislynching me. I just can't see him being scum and reacting like he did in the whole #207-215ish thing.
12. Twistedarcher- towny to me.
13. chairs- getting a general scummy feeling from him. Hammered Awaclus, put me on L-1. This is likely to lead to 2 mislynches.

So, my current scum lynches would be chairs, XP, maybe ADK (although people will only be able to agree with my logic works if I'm dead). I like my vote on chairs for now.

Err... this makes no sense. Why do you want us to lynch your null reads?

[Twistedarcher]

Intent to hammer.

Joseph continues to act incredibly scummy and base his viewpoints entirely on people's positions on him instead of looking at the larger position. The only reasonable defense is that he's too scummy to be scum, which is a pretty poor defense.

[Twistedarcher]

There are 4 players not on Joseph's wagon, all of whom are town reads. Joseph, you are not helping yourself if you're really town.

[faust]

Intent to hammer.

Joseph continues to act incredibly scummy and base his viewpoints entirely on people's positions on him instead of looking at the larger position. The only reasonable defense is that he's too scummy to be scum, which is a pretty poor defense.

What's the intent for? Joseph already claimed.

[Joseph2302]

There are 4 players not on Joseph's wagon, all of whom are town reads. Joseph, you are not helping yourself if you're really town.

That's because I know I'm town, so this biases my opinion somewhat.

1. Hydrad- getting a mild town read.
2. Egork- IC
3. Ichimaru Gin- seems super-intent on lynching me. Null read, but when I flip VT, I would consider him for lynching D3.
4. A Drowned Kernel- seems super-intent on lynching me. Null read, but when I flip VT, I would consider him for lynching D3.
5. Joseph2302- me, VT
6. XerxesPraelor- has flipped from supporting & condemning me. Null/tiny bit scummy read.
7. Awaclus- dead
8. Silverspawn- originally thought a bit scumy, but more null read now.
9. faust- seems towny
10. Witherweaver-dead
11. Seprix- still think town, even though he's intent on mislynching me. I just can't see him being scum and reacting like he did in the whole #207-215ish thing.
12. Twistedarcher- towny to me.
13. chairs- getting a general scummy feeling from him. Hammered Awaclus, put me on L-1. This is likely to lead to 2 mislynches.

So, my current scum lynches would be chairs, XP, maybe ADK (although people will only be able to agree with my logic works if I'm dead). I like my vote on chairs for now.

Err... this makes no sense. Why do you want us to lynch your null reads?

Because I have a small scum thought about XP, and ADK has been determined to lynch me all game. This will look more suspicious when I flip town.

I know I'm going to get lynched soon, so good luck town. I played this game so badly, and it just got out of hand. I'm VT, but I can see how I've appeared scummy.
PPE:1

[Joseph2302]

The remark about ADK is also true of Ichi, he's wanted to lynch me all game. When I flip town, it makes him more suspicious too IMO.

[Joseph2302]

Intent to self-hammer. Because I'm so bad at game.

[chairs]

Do it.

[silverspawn]

yeah, or, we could lynch chairs and hit scum. how about we lynch chairs?

[A Drowned Kernel]

yeah, or, we could lynch chairs and hit scum. how about we lynch chairs?

Maybe after joseph.

[silverspawn]

If Joseph flips scum, I want to lynch faust. I think I said that already. But he's not scum. Don't you see that?

[A Drowned Kernel]

I mean, if joseph flips scum, I'm probably going to want to lynch you. Just FYI.

[silverspawn]

I mean, if joseph flips scum, I'm probably going to want to lynch you. Just FYI.

?? what why?

[A Drowned Kernel]

yeah, or, we could lynch chairs and hit scum. how about we lynch chairs?

If Joseph flips scum, I want to lynch faust. I think I said that already. But he's not scum. Don't you see that?

[Joseph2302]

yeah, or, we could lynch chairs and hit scum. how about we lynch chairs?

Yh, what's wrong with this idea?

[A Drowned Kernel]

yeah, or, we could lynch chairs and hit scum. how about we lynch chairs?

Yh, what's wrong with this idea?

Weren't you going to self-hammer or something?

[Joseph2302]

yeah, or, we could lynch chairs and hit scum. how about we lynch chairs?

Yh, what's wrong with this idea?

Weren't you going to self-hammer or something?

I was tempted but not right now. I think we could hit scum instead. And I do have a feeling chairs is scum.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Do you think chairs is more or less likely to be scum than me?

[Joseph2302]

Do you think chairs is more or less likely to be scum than me?

I think more. I can understand why you want to lynch me, whereas chairs' actions confuse me a lot.

[A Drowned Kernel]

What do other people think about chairs?

[Hydrad]

Chairs is null. On phone. If not lynched will post more later.

[Hydrad]

Ya I still think SS is scummy and I don't know if its just me or not.

His reactions to the awaclus building up and forgetting that he at one point didn't want to lynch awaclus feels much more like scum. I know when I've been scum I've had to reread my game to remember who I said is scummy and towny. I've personally never had to do that as town really.

It just really feels like something scum would do there. And if I go with that SS is going on Joseph much to easily and makes him seem towny if SS is scum. Thats why I don't want to lynch Joseph here either.

[faust]

His reactions to the awaclus building up and forgetting that he at one point didn't want to lynch awaclus feels much more like scum. I know when I've been scum I've had to reread my game to remember who I said is scummy and towny. I've personally never had to do that as town really.

Can you point out where that was, silver saying he didn't want to lynch Awaclus? If that's right, that surely doesn't look good for silver.

[Hydrad]

yea, let us not lynch me. or faust, joseph, awaclus, seprix, or ADK.

-.- why did I include awaclus on this list? I don't even remember. #inconsitencyisatowntell

[faust]

yea, let us not lynch me. or faust, joseph, awaclus, seprix, or ADK.

-.- why did I include awaclus on this list? I don't even remember. #inconsitencyisatowntell

Don't like this.

Vote: SS

Ah, this. Yes, I think I like vote: silver

[Seprix]

On the flip side, being inconsistent means you double guess yourself a lot, which I have done. But in retrospect, I have done that sort of thing less as I have gotten more experienced with the game, so perhaps it is not an excuse.

[XerxesPraelor]

I'd be okay with either Joseph or silverspawn, but I think Joseph needs to be lynched first. There are tons of interactions with him, and we should cash them now.

[faust]

What do other people think about chairs?

I think chairs is scummy.

[silverspawn]

yeah, or, we could lynch chairs and hit scum. how about we lynch chairs?

If Joseph flips scum, I want to lynch faust. I think I said that already. But he's not scum. Don't you see that?

yeah, and I would clearly not defend my partner like this. I'm obv!conf!superIC!town!town

[silverspawn]

Ya I still think SS is scummy and I don't know if its just me or not.

His reactions to the awaclus building up and forgetting that he at one point didn't want to lynch awaclus feels much more like scum. I know when I've been scum I've had to reread my game to remember who I said is scummy and towny. I've personally never had to do that as town really.

It just really feels like something scum would do there. And if I go with that SS is going on Joseph much to easily and makes him seem towny if SS is scum. Thats why I don't want to lynch Joseph here either.

well, obviously that's wrong, because I don't mess up as scum like this. It's a town tell.

[silverspawn]

also, just as obviously, scum!me would hammer joseph here, no matter if he's scum or town. I like to buss for town cred.

[Hydrad]

also, just as obviously, scum!me would hammer joseph here, no matter if he's scum or town. I like to buss for town cred.

Ya you could say that as scum though also. Theres really no way I can trust what you are saying 100%. It can easily be that normally you would hammer as scum here. But now your going to point it out and not hammer to try and say your not scum.

These kind of proofs don't really help you at all.

[Seprix]

As alternate lynches go (as I promised), I can see Chairs getting lynched due to inactivity, but I'm way more inclined to give some leeway to that compared to Joseph.
 Another lynch I can see is Silverspawn, since he's acting a bit dodgy there with what he would/wouldn't do as scum. He's also pulled a Mitt Romney with some read flip-flops, but again, Joseph eclipses anything any other possible scum reads can even muster.

[silverspawn]

there has never been a less dodgy me. what?

[Ichimaru Gin]

Partner theory is useless right now. Let's lynch Joseph and worry about SS later.

[silverspawn]

Partner theory is useless right now. Let's not lynch Joseph or ss

ftfy

[faust]

Partner theory is useless right now. Let's lynch Joseph and worry about SS later.

But I think Joseph is town and silver is scum!

[silverspawn]

Partner theory is useless right now. Let's lynch Joseph and worry about SS later.

But I think Joseph is town and silver is scum!

why would you think I'm scum? that makes me feel worse about you. it's not logical.

[faust]

Partner theory is useless right now. Let's lynch Joseph and worry about SS later.

But I think Joseph is town and silver is scum!

why would you think I'm scum? that makes me feel worse about you. it's not logical.

"Not logical? That's just nonsense - or rather, OMGUS. I think you're scummy because you lynched Awaclus even though you said you didn't want to. If I have a read that tells me "don't lynch that player today", I don't just forget about it. But if it's made up, I might. And "I don't mess up as scum" is your defense, really? EVERYONE messes up as scum. (And as town btw) And "scum!me would do this and that" doesn't work either, because of course you know that scum!you would do that and you don't want to appear like scum!you, so you do something different.

[silverspawn]

Partner theory is useless right now. Let's lynch Joseph and worry about SS later.

But I think Joseph is town and silver is scum!

why would you think I'm scum? that makes me feel worse about you. it's not logical.

"Not logical? That's just nonsense - or rather, OMGUS. I think you're scummy because you lynched Awaclus even though you said you didn't want to. If I have a read that tells me "don't lynch that player today", I don't just forget about it. But if it's made up, I might. And "I don't mess up as scum" is your defense, really? EVERYONE messes up as scum. (And as town btw) And "scum!me would do this and that" doesn't work either, because of course you know that scum!you would do that and you don't want to appear like scum!you, so you do something different.

really?

[faust]

Partner theory is useless right now. Let's lynch Joseph and worry about SS later.

But I think Joseph is town and silver is scum!

why would you think I'm scum? that makes me feel worse about you. it's not logical.

"Not logical? That's just nonsense - or rather, OMGUS. I think you're scummy because you lynched Awaclus even though you said you didn't want to. If I have a read that tells me "don't lynch that player today", I don't just forget about it. But if it's made up, I might. And "I don't mess up as scum" is your defense, really? EVERYONE messes up as scum. (And as town btw) And "scum!me would do this and that" doesn't work either, because of course you know that scum!you would do that and you don't want to appear like scum!you, so you do something different.

really?

Really.

[Teproc]

Vote Count 2.5

Joseph2302 (5): Ichimaru Gin, Seprix, A Drowned Kernel, chairs, XerxesPraelor       {L-1}
chairs (2): silverspawn, Joseph2302
silverspawn (2): Hydrad, faust
faust (1): Twistedarcher

Not Voting (1): Egork

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 2 ends at 01:00 p.m. on February 21, 2015.

[silverspawn]

okay let's lynch faust then

vote: faust

[silverspawn]

although if faust is scum, it could also mean Joseph is scum. maybe I should hammer him, and if he flips scum we lynch faust next?

[silverspawn]

vote: intend to hammer or maybe not

[Hydrad]

although if faust is scum, it could also mean Joseph is scum. maybe I should hammer him, and if he flips scum we lynch faust next?

I thought you were against a Joseph lynch?

This feels like your just making up a excuse to try and make your Joseph hammer viable now.

I'm even more in favor of SS now.

[silverspawn]

no, don't hammer

let's just lynch faust

vote: faust

[silverspawn]

This feels like your just making up a excuse to try and make your Joseph hammer viable now.

*you're

[Hydrad]

This feels like your just making up a excuse to try and make your Joseph hammer viable now.

*you're

Sorry English was my worst subject and I almost never proof read my stuff .

But mainly I'm just lazy.

[silverspawn]

I forgive you.

[Hydrad]

I forgive you.

Hurrah!

Now lets get back to lynching you.

[faust]

Why are we lynching me again?

[silverspawn]

Why are we lynching me again?

I wasn't aware that we are lynching you; currently only 2 people are voting for you. but it makes sense that you would feel a lot of pressure as scum. vote: faust vote: faust vote: faust

[faust]

Why are we lynching me again?

I wasn't aware that we are lynching you; currently only 2 people are voting for you. but it makes sense that you would feel a lot of pressure as scum. vote: faust vote: faust vote: faust

Right...

[Seprix]

okay let's lynch faust then

vote: faust

no, don't hammer

let's just lynch faust

vote: faust

Why are we lynching me again?

I wasn't aware that we are lynching you; currently only 2 people are voting for you. but it makes sense that you would feel a lot of pressure as scum. vote: faust vote: faust vote: faust

One guy is voting for you, and you're freaking out like that over just one vote? That plus inconsistencies in voting? Maybe you're right. Let's not hammer Joseph right now.

vote:silverspawn

[Joseph2302]

So faust & silverspawn are the people attracting votes at the moment. Not getting a scum vibe from either of them at the moment, but will reread them when I get a chance.

[faust]

One guy is voting for you, and you're freaking out like that over just one vote? That plus inconsistencies in voting? Maybe you're right. Let's not hammer Joseph right now.

vote:silverspawn

Of course I'm right!

[Seprix]

vote count?

[Teproc]

Vote Count 2.6

Joseph2302 (4): Ichimaru Gin, A Drowned Kernel, chairs, XerxesPraelor
silverspawn (3): Hydrad, faust, Seprix
faust (2): Twistedarcher, silverspawn
chairs (1): Joseph2302

Not Voting (1): Egork

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 2 ends at 01:00 p.m. on February 21, 2015.

[Ichimaru Gin]

phone post.  I'm kind of confused on what's going with SS and faust. I thought they were both pretty townie before.  I'm not sure I like how  SS is kind of all over the place. His meta is so self aware I'm. on entirely sure what to make of it.

interesting fact: my phone wants to correct SS to St. 

[Joseph2302]

Reread faust, everything he's said seems to make sense. He seems towny to me.

[Joseph2302]

Silverspawn:

Defended me most of the game. He could be white-knighting me, but he's drawing huge attention to himself, so I think it would have been far easier for scum!silverspawn to just lynch town!me. Inconsistency with his Awaclus reads (town, then on the lynch wagon), but I'm not seeing great scum motive there.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Hrmm I'm thinking back to when SS and faust were partners in Futuramafia and spent a lot of the first day arguing with each other. That's one data point and I don't want to jump to conclusions but I feel that it's worth mentioning.

[Joseph2302]

Unless he's trying to cause a panic lynch, like D1, so we hit PR (as if scum, silverspawn can be reasonably certain I'm VT).

It's possible, but I still don't think he's the best lynch here.

Ppe :1

[Joseph2302]

Hrmm I'm thinking back to when SS and faust were partners in Futuramafia and spent a lot of the first day arguing with each other. That's one data point and I don't want to jump to conclusions but I feel that it's worth mentioning.

It's a possibility, plus silverspawn also doesn't mind bussing scummates, as with faust in that game. I still don't really see either of them as scummy at the moment though.

Also, it's only ~31 hours til deadline I believe?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Wow, that came up quick, forgot this game was on 7 days. Joseph's still my favorite. I could switch to chairs, or possibly XP.

[faust]

Wow, that came up quick, forgot this game was on 7 days. Joseph's still my favorite. I could switch to chairs, or possibly XP.

How do you think of chairs/XP in relation to Joseph? Do you think they're bussing scum or is it more like "if I wrong and Joseph is town, then these two are scummy"?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Wow, that came up quick, forgot this game was on 7 days. Joseph's still my favorite. I could switch to chairs, or possibly XP.

How do you think of chairs/XP in relation to Joseph? Do you think they're bussing scum or is it more like "if I wrong and Joseph is town, then these two are scummy"?

I think they're scummy mostly independent of Joseph's alignment. Maybe a little scummier if he's town.

[XerxesPraelor]

Why?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Looking back, I can't actually remember anything scummy about XP. I think I just default to assuming he's scum? That's bad, I take back my willingness to vote for him.

[Joseph2302]

So, with ~24 hours to go, worried D2 is going to end up like D1, with PR lynch. I'm open to a self -lynch, since then only VT not PR dies.

[XerxesPraelor]

So, with ~24 hours to go, worried D2 is going to end up like D1, with PR lynch. I'm open to a self -lynch, since then only VT not PR dies.

I don't believe you - you didn't self-hammer.

[XerxesPraelor]

I could vote silverspawn, but I'm happier voting Joseph.

[Twistedarcher]

So, with ~24 hours to go, worried D2 is going to end up like D1, with PR lynch. I'm open to a self -lynch, since then only VT not PR dies.

Vote: Joseph

[faust]

So, with ~24 hours to go, worried D2 is going to end up like D1, with PR lynch. I'm open to a self -lynch, since then only VT not PR dies.

Vote: Joseph

You think this is fake?

[Twistedarcher]

So, with ~24 hours to go, worried D2 is going to end up like D1, with PR lynch. I'm open to a self -lynch, since then only VT not PR dies.

Vote: Joseph

You think this is fake?

Yes. He said he would self-hammer earlier but didn't. He's not interested in actually finding scum or scumhunting this entire game, just saving himself and finding the people who want to lynch him scummy. His game has been 100% centered on survival and not on actually finding scum.

[faust]

Yes, Joseph's play has been incredibly scummy. All I can offer is my gut read that Joseph is town. I guess that won't be enough.

It's mostly this: I really don't expect scum!Joseph to mess up like this.

[Twistedarcher]

Yes, Joseph's play has been incredibly scummy. All I can offer is my gut read that Joseph is town. I guess that won't be enough.

It's mostly this: I really don't expect scum!Joseph to mess up like this.

That was my feeling as well for awhile, but I've slowly changed my view D2.

[faust]

Yes, Joseph's play has been incredibly scummy. All I can offer is my gut read that Joseph is town. I guess that won't be enough.

It's mostly this: I really don't expect scum!Joseph to mess up like this.

That was my feeling as well for awhile, but I've slowly changed my view D2.

Let's hope I'm wrong and you're right then.

[Ichimaru Gin]

So, with ~24 hours to go, worried D2 is going to end up like D1, with PR lynch. I'm open to a self -lynch, since then only VT not PR dies.

Vote: Joseph

Is that the hammer?

So, with ~24 hours to go, worried D2 is going to end up like D1, with PR lynch. I'm open to a self -lynch, since then only VT not PR dies.

Vote: Joseph

You think this is fake?

Yes. He said he would self-hammer earlier but didn't. He's not interested in actually finding scum or scumhunting this entire game, just saving himself and finding the people who want to lynch him scummy. His game has been 100% centered on survival and not on actually finding scum.

Completely agree with this. Regardless of how Joseph flips, him being alive was hurting town. I feel very confident he's going to flip scum though. That "I'm going to self-hammer, but not really" is just the nail in the coffin.

[Twistedarcher]

No i think it's L-1

[silverspawn]

well, I'd prefer faust, but if we do lynch Joseph, I really hopes he flips scum. That'd be great, and lead us right to the faust lynch next.

[Joseph2302]

I'm happy to self-lynch, just not yet. There doesn't seem to be a plan for afterwards. Who should be lynched next?

My current thoughts are chairs, because I'm really not thinking he's town, and also looking at those who've wanted to lynch me all game (ADK/Ichi).

[Seprix]

Oh, to hell with you.

vote: Joseph

[silverspawn]

yelp.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Finally!

I'm happy to self-lynch, just not yet. There doesn't seem to be a plan for afterwards. Who should be lynched next?

My current thoughts are chairs, because I'm really not thinking he's town, and also looking at those who've wanted to lynch me all game (ADK/Ichi).

We'll figure that out after you flip.

PPE: 

[Seprix]

The reason I changed my vote to SS in the first place was because I saw some compelling evidence that SS was scum, and the Joseph lynch wasn't going anywhere despite Joseph being at L-1. If Joseph is town, that's going to really suck. But his play has been so terrible regardless. Archer is right, he's not trying to find scum, he's trying to survive.

[Joseph2302]

Just so people know, I was almost certainly going to self-lynch tomorrow. I wanted everyone to have an opinion first.

I'm actually VT, although I've played this game kind of crap and on the defensive. Still think chairs is scummy, and look at ADK/Ichi, and Seprix, they've all been wanted me lynched all game.

[Joseph2302]

Also, I want to find scum, but I'm also kind of worried about hitting PR again. Hitting VT (me) isn't great, but hitting PR would have been super-bad.

[Joseph2302]

I apologise for being so bad this game, I think my play just got too defensive and negative. This lynch was probably better for us than having a big claim tomorrow, and PRs being vulnerable.

[Seprix]

Just so people know, I was almost certainly going to self-lynch tomorrow. I wanted everyone to have an opinion first.

I'm actually VT, although I've played this game kind of crap and on the defensive. Still think chairs is scummy, and look at ADK/Ichi, and Seprix, they've all been wanted me lynched all game.

You're actually VT? Damn. >_>

I dunno, man. You really got to improve your play. I was positive you were Mafia.

PPE: 2

It's okay man. Just learn from this. I'm going to. My gut told me you weren't scum, maybe I should have listened.

[Joseph2302]

Just so people know, I was almost certainly going to self-lynch tomorrow. I wanted everyone to have an opinion first.

I'm actually VT, although I've played this game kind of crap and on the defensive. Still think chairs is scummy, and look at ADK/Ichi, and Seprix, they've all been wanted me lynched all game.

You're actually VT? Damn. >_>

I dunno, man. You really got to improve your play. I was positive you were Mafia.

PPE: 2

It's okay man. Just learn from this. I'm going to. My gut told me you weren't scum, maybe I should have listened.

Hey, we all make mistakes, I just made too many this game. I can totally understand why people thought I was scum.

[silverspawn]

well... this is exactly what I expected.

[silverspawn]

unless he's scum and just yoloing right now

[Joseph2302]

I still think Seprix is town, but people should look at him too after this hammer.

unless he's scum and just yoloing right now

I'm not, that would be disckish.

PPE:2

[Joseph2302]

dickish*

[silverspawn]

I still think Seprix is town, but people should look at him too after this hammer.

unless he's scum and just yoloing right now

I'm not, that would be disckish.

PPE:2

nah, that would be totally fine. If you're scum, tricking town is good play.

If you were town and you pretended to be scum, that's a different story.

[Hydrad]

Well tomorrow we can lynch SS I guess.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I still think Seprix is town, but people should look at him too after this hammer.

unless he's scum and just yoloing right now

I'm not, that would be disckish.

PPE:2

nah, that would be totally fine. If you're scum, tricking town is good play.

If you were town and you pretended to be scum, that's a different story.

Yep this exactly.

I'm not really sure I believe you're a VT. Your continued OMGUS reads aren't really helping. Unfortunately, if you're actually telling the truth, I'm not sure where I would expect scum to be on your wagon. Scummy town hurts us because scum can sheep the wagon and just cite your scummy play as an excuse after you flip--though I don't see why scum would prefer lynching a claimed VT and not just leave you alive for potential MYLO shenanigans...You flipping scum gives us tons more info though, so here's hoping you're lying.

PPE: 1

[A Drowned Kernel]

well... this is exactly what I expected.

Because you're scum and know everyone's alignments?

[Hydrad]

town read on faust btw.

[Joseph2302]

town read on faust btw.

I also had a small town read on faust, but also silverspawn. Could be completely wrong though.

[Teproc]

THREAD LOCKED

[Teproc]

Day 2 Final Vote Count

Joseph2302 (6): Ichimaru Gin, A Drowned Kernel, chairs, XerxesPraelor, Twistedarcher, Seprix

silverspawn (2): Hydrad, faust
faust (1): silverspawn
chairs (1): Joseph2302

Not Voting (1): Egork

With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.

Day 2 ends at 01:00 p.m. on February 21, 2015.

Joseph2302 has been lynched. He was a Vanilla Townie

Night 2 will last 48 hours. All players are required to check in with me through PM or QT.

[Teproc]

A Drowned Kernel has been killed in the night. He was a Vanilla Townie.

Day 3 begins !

Vote Count 3.0

Not Voting (9): Egork, Ichimaru Gin, chairs, XerxesPraelor, Twistedarcher, Seprix, Hydrad, faust, silverspawn

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Day 3 ends at 06:00 p.m. on March 2, 2015.

Apologies for the delay everyone.

[Hydrad]

Oh hey I'm alive!

woooo.

Vote: SS again.

[silverspawn]

Oh hey I'm alive!

woooo.

Vote: SS again.

right, because I predicted that joseph was scum and didn't hammer him when I could have easily done so, gaining an excellent "self-preservation" excuse and remove another town from this game.

this is ridiculous. vote: hydrad. I don't think I ever said this before, but there is no reason right now why anyone should vote for me. If I am playing scum, I don't ever make unncessary gambits. I would have hammered 100%. I should be one of the least suspected people alive and you are either scum or doing a baffling mistake.

[Hydrad]

well... this is exactly what I expected.

Because you're scum and know everyone's alignments?

ADK's last words.

Although I should probably reread ADK a bit more to see why he was killed.

[faust]

Oh hey I'm alive!

woooo.

Vote: SS again.

right, because I predicted that joseph was scum and didn't hammer him when I could have easily done so, gaining an excellent "self-preservation" excuse and remove another town from this game.

this is ridiculous. vote: hydrad. I don't think I ever said this before, but there is no reason right now why anyone should vote for me. If I am playing scum, I don't ever make unncessary gambits. I would have hammered 100%. I should be one of the least suspected people alive and you are either scum or doing a baffling mistake.

This reads like town!silver. I remember a game where he argued pretty much like this (it's bad reasoning IMHO, especially if you're using it on yourself). It can be faked as scum, sure, but I've yet to see that.

[faust]

<b>Teproc: Could you change the thread title to Day 3?</b>

[faust]

<b>Teproc: Could you change the thread title to Day 3?</b>

Teproc: Could you change the thread title to Day 3?

Scumslip!

[silverspawn]

<b>Teproc: Could you change the thread title to Day 3?</b>

SCUMSLIP!!!!!

[silverspawn]

PEE: I don't think noticing it yourself makes it any less of a scumslip.

And I was just getting a towny read on you based on your last post!

[silverspawn]

I guess it is not necessarily a QT of this game. You're not supposed to reference other games, but in this case I think it is at least acceptable to say that another game with personal QT's for everyone is running. so, maybe? but I still think this is pretty huge.

[faust]

PEE: I don't think noticing it yourself makes it any less of a scumslip.

And I was just getting a towny read on you based on your last post!

So you are serious?

[silverspawn]

PEE: I don't think noticing it yourself makes it any less of a scumslip.

And I was just getting a towny read on you based on your last post!

So you are serious?

about this being a big deal? yeah, of course, absolutely.

are you trying to tell me it's not?

[faust]

PEE: I don't think noticing it yourself makes it any less of a scumslip.

And I was just getting a towny read on you based on your last post!

So you are serious?

about this being a big deal? yeah, of course, absolutely.

are you trying to tell me it's not?

This is relevant.

[silverspawn]

relevant and totally wrong imo. of course scumslips do exist. if a new player is scum in his first game, and does the first vote with <b>vote: twilight</b>, that would be a massive scumslip. this is the reason why, in fish mafia, ash actually posted a warning about brackets in the QT.

Also, I did read your post about scum slips a while ago, and you're not really arguing for why they don't exist so much as for why they are really rare. That's why people disagreed with you despite saying that you made the better argument. To be more specific, #3 in your post is the reason why scum slips are super rare, #2 doesn't apply here and #1 is, well, the thing.

In this game, if it weren't for the other thing, i would instantly vote for you. as is, I'm not sure. I don't like your reaction though, I would have preferred it if you made the argument about the other thing instead of saying scum slips don't exist.

[Teproc]

Vote Count 3.1

silverspawn (1): Hydrad
Hydrad (1): silverspawn

Not Voting (7): Egork, Ichimaru Gin, chairs, XerxesPraelor, Twistedarcher, Seprix, faust

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Day 3 ends at 06:00 p.m. on March 2, 2015.

[silverspawn]

I'm also very curious about how other players react to it.

On a side note, I do think it's unfair if we catch you this way, but I had already read your post, so there's no going back.

[silverspawn]

Also, if you do turn out to be scum, this is a prime example for a real scum slip in a real game and even from an experienced player.

I'll definitely reread you next.

[silverspawn]

and I also don't like your silence.

[faust]

and I also don't like your silence.

Dude. I have other things to do than refreshing my mafia game tab every minute.

[silverspawn]

and I also don't like your silence.

Dude. I have other things to do than refreshing my mafia game tab every minute.

right... except this just happened, I would say it warrants a few minutes of high activity. unless you legitimately believe it's no big deal.

I actually hadn't remembered that you addressed the <b> thing specifically in your post. let me reread that.

[faust]

relevant and totally wrong imo. of course scumslips do exist. if a new player is scum in his first game, and does the first vote with <b>vote: twilight</b>, that would be a massive scumslip. this is the reason why, in fish mafia, ash actually posted a warning about brackets in the QT.

Also, I did read your post about scum slips a while ago, and you're not really arguing for why they don't exist so much as for why they are really rare. That's why people disagreed with you despite saying that you made the better argument. To be more specific, #3 in your post is the reason why scum slips are super rare, #2 doesn't apply here and #1 is, well, the thing.

In this game, if it weren't for the other thing, i would instantly vote for you. as is, I'm not sure. I don't like your reaction though, I would have preferred it if you made the argument about the other thing instead of saying scum slips don't exist.

Yeah, scumslips are rare. So rare they are outweighed by far by random mistakes anyone makes. In your example, sure, if someone never used quicktopic before, then I guess using <b> is a legitimate sign of their being scum. I however use quicktopic a lot, and sometimes things get mixed up.

Really, in the linked post, I exaggerate a bit because I was meant to argue that scumslips don't exist. But yuma's post in that same thread pretty well covers my actual opinion on the thing.

[silverspawn]

well, maybe.

so, I'll just leave it for now and see what other players think about this. maybe I'm the only one who thinks it's a big deal, though that would surprise me.

[Hydrad]

I still like Faust.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Well this is just ludicrous. Seriously, I mess up the formatting between html and BBcode all the time. In my first game, I used BBcode in the scum qt like 3 times by mistake. Plus, SS already provided the relevant information himself concerning ongoing games. And Hydrad is sheeping him? I'm not sure which one I like better, I'm gonna vote: SS for now though. Scumslips are a thing, but this exact thing has happened before with non-scum. At best, it's WIFOM--which is useless.

[Hydrad]

By like Faust I mean I think he's town

[Ichimaru Gin]

By like Faust I mean I think he's town

Oh. Ok. I thought that was slightly odd since you were voting silver before iirc. That makes more sense.

[silverspawn]

yeah, actually forget what I said. it's not a big deal.

sorry faust :)

[faust]

yeah, actually forget what I said. it's not a big deal.

sorry faust :)

I'm a bit confused now.

[faust]

Day 2 Final Vote Count

Joseph2302 (6): Ichimaru Gin, A Drowned Kernel, chairs, XerxesPraelor, Twistedarcher, Seprix

silverspawn (2): Hydrad, faust
faust (1): silverspawn
chairs (1): Joseph2302

Not Voting (1): Egork

With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.

Day 2 ends at 01:00 p.m. on February 21, 2015.

Joseph2302 has been lynched. He was a Vanilla Townie

Night 2 will last 48 hours. All players are required to check in with me through PM or QT.

So - wagon analysis. Only three players and the IC are off-wagon. Now would scum throw all their votes on the wagon? On Joseph, who was an easy mislynch anyway? I kinda doubt that. Which would imply that there is scum among Hydrad/silver (well, for me, I guess you have to consider that I could be scum). I've gotten a townish feel from silver lately, but I want to reread both of them thoroughly before the day ends.

On wagon, my reads are currently Xerxes > Ichi > chairs > TA > Seprix... but that's again not really backed up yet. I'll reread as soon as possible.

[chairs]

I'm frankly just glad we got the "is Joseph scum or isn't he" issue out of the way, so we can move on.

[faust]

I'm frankly just glad we got the "is Joseph scum or isn't he" issue out of the way, so we can move on.

Well then, do move on.

[XerxesPraelor]

Day 2 Final Vote Count

Joseph2302 (6): Ichimaru Gin, A Drowned Kernel, chairs, XerxesPraelor, Twistedarcher, Seprix

silverspawn (2): Hydrad, faust
faust (1): silverspawn
chairs (1): Joseph2302

Not Voting (1): Egork

With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.

Day 2 ends at 01:00 p.m. on February 21, 2015.

Joseph2302 has been lynched. He was a Vanilla Townie

Night 2 will last 48 hours. All players are required to check in with me through PM or QT.

So - wagon analysis. Only three players and the IC are off-wagon. Now would scum throw all their votes on the wagon? On Joseph, who was an easy mislynch anyway? I kinda doubt that. Which would imply that there is scum among Hydrad/silver (well, for me, I guess you have to consider that I could be scum). I've gotten a townish feel from silver lately, but I want to reread both of them thoroughly before the day ends.

On wagon, my reads are currently Xerxes > Ichi > chairs > TA > Seprix... but that's again not really backed up yet. I'll reread as soon as possible.

vote: Faust
The reasoning you pointed out (and townread on hydrad) + scumslip.

[Seprix]

Day 2 Final Vote Count

Joseph2302 (6): Ichimaru Gin, A Drowned Kernel, chairs, XerxesPraelor, Twistedarcher, Seprix

silverspawn (2): Hydrad, faust
faust (1): silverspawn
chairs (1): Joseph2302

Not Voting (1): Egork

With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.

Day 2 ends at 01:00 p.m. on February 21, 2015.

Joseph2302 has been lynched. He was a Vanilla Townie

Night 2 will last 48 hours. All players are required to check in with me through PM or QT.

So - wagon analysis. Only three players and the IC are off-wagon. Now would scum throw all their votes on the wagon? On Joseph, who was an easy mislynch anyway? I kinda doubt that. Which would imply that there is scum among Hydrad/silver (well, for me, I guess you have to consider that I could be scum). I've gotten a townish feel from silver lately, but I want to reread both of them thoroughly before the day ends.

On wagon, my reads are currently Xerxes > Ichi > chairs > TA > Seprix... but that's again not really backed up yet. I'll reread as soon as possible.

vote: Faust
The reasoning you pointed out (and townread on hydrad) + scumslip.

I see no mistakes though. I'll post some ramblings later, but this looks a bit like an OMGUS. I could be wrong, but you vote for Faust just after he says you look scummy? Hrm.

[Hydrad]

Day 2 Final Vote Count

Joseph2302 (6): Ichimaru Gin, A Drowned Kernel, chairs, XerxesPraelor, Twistedarcher, Seprix

silverspawn (2): Hydrad, faust
faust (1): silverspawn
chairs (1): Joseph2302

Not Voting (1): Egork

With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.

Day 2 ends at 01:00 p.m. on February 21, 2015.

Joseph2302 has been lynched. He was a Vanilla Townie

Night 2 will last 48 hours. All players are required to check in with me through PM or QT.

So - wagon analysis. Only three players and the IC are off-wagon. Now would scum throw all their votes on the wagon? On Joseph, who was an easy mislynch anyway? I kinda doubt that. Which would imply that there is scum among Hydrad/silver (well, for me, I guess you have to consider that I could be scum). I've gotten a townish feel from silver lately, but I want to reread both of them thoroughly before the day ends.

On wagon, my reads are currently Xerxes > Ichi > chairs > TA > Seprix... but that's again not really backed up yet. I'll reread as soon as possible.

I like this point. I agree mainly on the wagon reads with faust I guess. I actually might put TA as more towny then seprix.

but ya I doubt all scum was on that wagon and since theres me/IC/faust/SS. SS is still the best choice.

[XerxesPraelor]

I think Faust and silverspawn are both good choices, and to act like it has to be exactly one of them is scummy. Maybe scum only needed 1 or even noone on the wagon.

[silverspawn]

I think Faust and silverspawn are both good choices, and to act like it has to be exactly one of them is scummy. Maybe scum only needed 1 or even noone on the wagon.

so hydrad is scummy. yeah.

[chairs]

vote: faust

[faust]

vote: faust

Cool. Do I get an explanation?

[chairs]

faust: voted most likely to slip under my radar as scum.

To be honest, I'm still waffling between you and silverspawn.

vote count please

[Ichimaru Gin]

Ok. Just got back from class. I'm kind of baffled by these faust votes. And...this game also seems to be stalling a bit. I still like a silver lynch today--though I'm thinking about switching my vote to chairs.

[Seprix]

I don't really trust Silverspawn, Xerxes, or Chairs. None of them have been outstandingly scum, but each of them have been a bit odd. Silver was a bit inconsistent in voting, Xerxes flipped out a bit with an apparent OMGUS vote, and Chairs has been inactive (though this too was explained).

I don't know about Faust or Hydrad, and I'm inclined to lean towards Ichi Gin as town. Hrm.

[faust]

So, rereading Hydrad.

Day 1.
- takes a stance early on, thinking that Joseph is town.
- more defending Joseph
- OMGUS votes silver
- now he gives up his town read on Joseph
- thinks Ichi and WW are scummy
- now he goes back to defending Joseph
- votes Awaclus, saying he doesn't really think he's scummy.

So the thing that sticks out most D1 is his defense of Joseph, which could be correct read or white knighting. His Awaclus vote is actually relatively towny.

Day 2.
- he goes after silver early for being inconsistent in his reads.
- calls the night kill "unexpected", and tries to use WW's death for a case against silver
- defends chairs, saying he's towny, a bit later chairs is null.

This is it. So Hydrad is looking worse here. I don't think silver and Hydrad are scum together, as I don't think Hydrad would bus this hard. If Hydrad is scum, I'd look at chairs as a partner.

Day 3.
- again uses the night kill against silver.

Overall: Hydrad has formulated very little reads this game. He thought Joseph is town, silver is scum, and he apparently thinks I am town. That's mainly it, and it's problematic.

[faust]

Now for silverspawn.

Day 1.
- jokes about the scum team. Two of the three players he mentions have flipped town, and one I think is not his partner. So would scum!silver put down three town names here? Hmmm...
- thinks WW is scum
- puts Joseph to L-2
- argues against quicklynching
- thinks Hydrad is scummy
- thinks ADK and Seprix are towny
-calls the Joseph lynch convenient for scum
- continues to oppose the Joseph wagon, votes chairs and WW
- Votes for Joseph without much enthusiasm
- sheeps the Awaclus vote, contradicting his earlier reads. Now rereading silver's D1, this doesn't look as bad anymore. I mean, he was never feeling good about the Joseph wagon, now another wagon comes up, I can imagine town!silver to just jump it without really thinking. It's still not good, but also not as bad as I thought earlier

So yeah. I don't think scum!silver would act the way he did towards the Joseph wagon. He'd either push it or be against it, not in a weird "I think he's scummy, but not scummy enough to lynch" position.

Day 2.
- starts going after chairs
- continues to push a chairs lynch
- defends himself by saying "I don't mess up as scum". Well, that's not a good defense.
- votes for me after I say I think he's scummy. OMGUS, null tell really.

Day 3.
- this actually makes sense.
- the whole scumslip thing, which ends with him dropping his suspicion on me... I don't now, doesn't look like a scum move.

Okay, there are still things about silver that make me feel uncomfortable, but overall I think I prefer Hydrad.

Vote: Hydrad

[Hydrad]

Hmmm. that does make me look worse then silver.

I still think faust is towny though.

Now I have to think of how to defend myself.

[faust]

I think Faust and silverspawn are both good choices, and to act like it has to be exactly one of them is scummy. Maybe scum only needed 1 or even noone on the wagon.

If Xerxes is scum, and I think there's a decent chance that he is, this makes me think all scum could be on wagon.

[silverspawn]

So, my opinion about this game right now is that I don't feel any of the people who have gotten a lot of attention feel like good lynches. Instead, I want to look at everyone who's been flying under the radar...

Hydrad
Egork
Ichimaru Gin
A Drowned Kernel
Joseph2302
XerxesPraelor
Awaclus
silverspawn
faust
Witherweaver
Seprix
Twistedarcher
chairs

Green are town, crossed are dead.

Last time I reread Hydrad, I came to the entirely wrong conclusion, even though I tried really hard. Right now, I'm not confident enough. Faust's case isn't bad, but mh. Before I vote for that, I want to try if I like someone else better.

Faust gets a pass for not supporting Joseph lynch and defending me. Seprix I still think is town because of the early day one stuff.

These are remaining:

Ichimaru Gin
XerxesPraelor
Awaclus
Twistedarcher
chairs

So, again I want to look at people who've been blending in. That's certainly not the case for TA, plus I've never seen him play scum, I wouldn't be able to judge it well. I briefly reread Ichi and he has some pretty extensive posts with lots of content that look genuine. He did support the Joseph lynch, but he was on it early (pretty much first), which I think is better.

That leaves

XerxesPraelor
Awaclus
chairs

I barely remember anything about either of them. I think that's where I want to look for scum next, so I'll go reread those three.

[silverspawn]

wait Awaclus is dead. Guh I'm so behind on this game

[silverspawn]

Right he was the one who lied VT when he was a PR. day 1 lynch .... sorry <.<

[silverspawn]

And he was our watcher too. I had forgotten. Watcher is really strong. well, that sucks.

[Seprix]

And he was our watcher too. I had forgotten. Watcher is really strong. well, that sucks.

How did you not know that? That happened day 1. This is day 3.

[Seprix]

And he was our watcher too. I had forgotten. Watcher is really strong. well, that sucks.

How did you not know that? That happened day 1. This is day 3.

Not an accusation, just thought I remembered you talking about it. Maybe not. I'd have to go look.

[faust]

And he was our watcher too. I had forgotten. Watcher is really strong. well, that sucks.

How did you not know that? That happened day 1. This is day 3.

Well, silver is certainly not the only one here who forgets stuff...

[silverspawn]

So, Xerxes

Day 1                       

Says Awaclus is an IC for scumhunting... really early... and he sounded serious.  Well, Awaclus was town.

Next there is a weird case where he attacks ADK in a strange way, but it doesn't stick.

Well, I'm at #250 now and there were like 5 posts

votes for me for no reason. Voting for me is bad. Also says Joseph is scummy but he doesn't want to vote for him.

Says his gut scum team is SS/ADK/Hydrad. well... whatever I guess.

(about the Joseph thing) Then TA says why don't you want to lynch him if you think he's scum and XP says "Because he's been lynched lately and it would be really frustrating as town to get lynched from basically nothing substantial." That's... interesting. So, scum!XP knows Joseph is town. Based on that, this is a really weird to way to treat someone, because you don't support the mislynch and you don't get towncred for keeping him alive. But he could be genuinely concerned about Joseph's feelings. I'm not sure.

Then he debates a little with faust. Basically, faust's question is, why isn't Joseph on XP's scum team (see above), and XP's answer is, "Interactions."

#363 TA votes for XP.

#373 XP says, "Sorry for leaving - so what's the caseon me?"

That completely... uhm, what's the english word if something is just doesn't get talked about anymore? well anyway, that happens. no-one cares.

Then #476 he just votes for WW out of nowhere. That's 9 hours before the deadline.

And that's it for day 1. He's the only vote on WW in the final count.


Day 2                                       

So,

I was telling people all of D1 awalcus was a bad lynch.

vote: chairs

vote: Joseph

Vote: silverspawn

Vote: Faust

Vote: hydrad

Vote: Joseph

wait, what? When did you do that? Let me double check that.

--

Right, so his "telling you all day 1" is his first three posts, where he calls Awaclus an IC. That's all. He never even mentioned the Awaclus case from that point on. So... yeah. What.

Next he says he refuses to believe that wagon was town driven. That's some serious and completely unjustified confidence.

#636 he tries to hammer Joseph but fails because he didn't read the vote count correctly. There was like an 80 post gap between this and the last one.

Then he asks others to hammer.

Next he says he wants to lynch Joseph or me. He does that twice.

That's it for Day 2.

Day 3 he pushes Faust and me, and that's basically it.

[silverspawn]

I don't really know what to make of all of that. It seems like pretty sloppy play. I think my conclusion is that he's probably town, because usually pays a little bit more thought to how others perceive them, right? But I'm also curious what others think. I think the essential question here is, how clean is scum!XP's meta. Right now I don't really recall any games where he was scum in. There probably were some, though.

[silverspawn]

because *scum usually pays ...

[silverspawn]

And his general activity is really low. Also, he got like zero suspicion so far.

[silverspawn]

And he was our watcher too. I had forgotten. Watcher is really strong. well, that sucks.

How did you not know that? That happened day 1. This is day 3.

mostly because the last weeks sucked and I didn't pay much attention to mafia

[silverspawn]

and then god said shut up and there was silence

well, in any case, chairs is next

[silverspawn]

I'll always include the post index this time.

Day 1                                                                         

Well first vote (#63) is a jokevote for the IC. I don't like this, but it's not a serious scum tell. He does unvote in his second post.

Then there is a really early RVS wagon on chairs.

Next he jumps on the Joseph case because he joked about being scum and had done so in the past. This is true, and it was at a time were voting Joseph was still cool.

#378: he votes for Joseph again. He never unvoted though... oh, actually this counted as an unvote. Well I guess that's legit. But he never expressed a change in opinion.

#394 ADK says chairs makes short posts and opportunistic wagon jumping. That's... not really what happened, since he was first on the wagon. But his posts are short and, well, he was semi lurking.

The chairs wagon from the start has just kind of disappeared at this point.

#434:

Whee.

#452 he explains why he's been lurking.

#526: hammers awaclus. mh.


Day 2                                                         

vote count #586 another small wagon on chairs is forming

#606 Hydrad is defending chairs

#611 chairs wants to lynch Joseph. Bad.

#618: uww. Look at this:

I think a quicklynch does do one big thing for us - gets joseph's lynch out of the way, for good or for ill, and lets us move on with the game.  ADK is right - D1's dragging directly led to the Awaclus lynch, because we all waffled on the joe lynch long enough for an argument to be made.  Here we still have the same "should we lynch joe" moment going on, and it's shaping the conversation, distracting from other things.

vote: joseph L-1

#623 Hydrad continues to defend chairs, and IG agrees.

Then he encourages the hammer and goes back to lurking


#789:

I'm frankly just glad we got the "is Joseph scum or isn't he" issue out of the way, so we can move on.

...



#796 votes for faust. bad.

[XerxesPraelor]

Lots of people suspended me. My scum play is sloppy, so you don't need to worry about "he's too scummy to be scum" but I don't see anything scummy about my play so far. I'm pretty good at not revealing partners though, so Faust's "If XP is scum, scum were all on wagon" would be wrong even if the predicate were true.

I admit my Awalcus thing was wrong - that was just my first reaction finding out that a super-towny person was lynched while I slept and turned out to be a PR on top of that.

And I think Faust is scummier than ss, of the people suspecting me, because SS really looks like he's putting a lot of effort into scumhunting, whereas Faust's comments don't have the directness and responsibility(?) that town has more often.

[silverspawn]

What is worst about chairs is that, at several points in the game (in fact at least 3 times), wagons have been forming on him, and they never took off. This is, I think, a pretty good scum tell, and it makes me want to vote: chairs

I also really, really, really dislike the way he treats the Joseph lynch. It was a bad lynch. He was town. Lynching town is not good. I hate how he is just like "I'm glad this is out of the way" instead of "sorry for pushing this bad lynch that hurt town, I was wrong" or something. Unfortunately, this doesn't make me think he's scum more, I actually think it's a slight town tell. not enough though.

His wagon history is of course as bad as it gets. Hammered the first town and heavily pushed the second.

[silverspawn]

And I think Faust is scummier than ss, of the people suspecting me, because SS really looks like he's putting a lot of effort into scumhunting, whereas Faust's comments don't have the directness and responsibility(?) that town has more often.

well to be fair I put like no effort into this game until today. And I do have a town read on faust now. If we listened to him, Joseph would still be alive.

[silverspawn]

okay, so, does anyone have a good reason against the chairs lynch?

[XerxesPraelor]

vote: chairs

I prefer Faust. He was on the Awalcus lynch, right.

[silverspawn]

Yeah, but so was I.

I think, for faust, the best alignment tell is whether or not he seems like a really confident town player. I agree that he's been less of a presence than in past games, but that's a pretty high standard. I still feel that he's confident here.

And, of course, he wasn't on the Joseph wagon and he is defending me, which I think is big. I'm like a really good mislynch for scum right now. Why should scum!faust not push me? Especially after the scumslip thing.

[Teproc]

Vote Count 3.2

chairs (2): silverspawn, XeresPraelor
faust (1): chairs
Hydrad (1):  faust
silverspawn (1): Hydrad

Not Voting (4): Egork, Ichimaru Gin, Twistedarcher, Seprix

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Day 3 ends at 06:00 p.m. on March 2, 2015.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Hmm. I should probably reread a bit to refresh myself on this game. I like the cases made by faust and SS. I know it's something that can be easy for scum to imitate--but it feels like genuine scumhunting in both cases.

When was the last time TA was around?

[chairs]

What is worst about chairs is that, at several points in the game (in fact at least 3 times), wagons have been forming on him, and they never took off. This is, I think, a pretty good scum tell, and it makes me want to vote: chairs

I also really, really, really dislike the way he treats the Joseph lynch. It was a bad lynch. He was town. Lynching town is not good. I hate how he is just like "I'm glad this is out of the way" instead of "sorry for pushing this bad lynch that hurt town, I was wrong" or something. Unfortunately, this doesn't make me think he's scum more, I actually think it's a slight town tell. not enough though.

His wagon history is of course as bad as it gets. Hammered the first town and heavily pushed the second.

I -am- upset that Joseph wasn't scum, but I'm also glad we got it out of the way.  Would I have enjoyed seeing that flip go Mafia? Yes.  Am I sad that we're now in a position where we've popped the Watcher and a VT? Yes.  Did I think Joseph was scum? Absolutely.

And sorry, I've been paying a bit more attention to other games; I'll see if I can't work up a scum-to-chum soon.

[faust]

I'm not sure I come to the same conclusions as silver. I don't think chairs is particularly scummy. When he hammered Awaclus, it already looked like it was too late to get Joseph lynched.

Xerxes is scummy.

[silverspawn]

I'm not sure I come to the same conclusions as silver. I don't think chairs is particularly scummy. When he hammered Awaclus, it already looked like it was too late to get Joseph lynched.

Xerxes is scummy.

scummier than hydrad?

[silverspawn]

and yeah, I can totally see how you can reach different conclusions based on the same facts

[silverspawn]

the biggest point with chairs for me is just that his lynch seems so hard

[faust]

I'm not sure I come to the same conclusions as silver. I don't think chairs is particularly scummy. When he hammered Awaclus, it already looked like it was too late to get Joseph lynched.

Xerxes is scummy.

scummier than hydrad?

Not sure yet. Maybe. I feel like lynching on wagon is better because off wagon, there's only you/Hydrad, and at most one of you is scum.

[EgorK]

Vote: chairs

[Ichimaru Gin]

Um. Is anyone there?

Pretty sure it's been a loooooooong time since TA has posted...And actually checking the thread, looks like he hasn't posted in 6 days.

[Twistedarcher]

Hey all, been busy this week. Ichi is correct, I haven't posted D3. I've read over most of D3 but haven't read back over the entire game yet -- will do so tomorrow. Was disappointed by Joseph's flip but I agree that it's good it's out of the way, it was a big distraction.

Confused by how I'm confident town to everyone -- it doesn't make sense to me. If I were any of you I'd be very suspicious of me, but I've skated by D2 and D3. Will target this in my re-read to see where it's coming from, since I'd guess the sentiment is more from scum than from town.

[chairs]

I, uh, kind of forgot you were playing.

[Hydrad]

yay TA's back.

if we can't SS. I think I like XP actually.

Vote: XP

[Seprix]

I like the XP lynch, but I'll have to think about it. I'll be reading his posts before I make that determination.

[Seprix]

Hey all, been busy this week. Ichi is correct, I haven't posted D3. I've read over most of D3 but haven't read back over the entire game yet -- will do so tomorrow. Was disappointed by Joseph's flip but I agree that it's good it's out of the way, it was a big distraction.

Confused by how I'm confident town to everyone -- it doesn't make sense to me. If I were any of you I'd be very suspicious of me, but I've skated by D2 and D3. Will target this in my re-read to see where it's coming from, since I'd guess the sentiment is more from scum than from town.

You seem fine to me. You haven't said anything blatantly stupid like Joseph and you are actually (or were) engaging in asking questions. I have no real reason besides the inactivity to brand you a villain.

[faust]

Hey all, been busy this week. Ichi is correct, I haven't posted D3. I've read over most of D3 but haven't read back over the entire game yet -- will do so tomorrow. Was disappointed by Joseph's flip but I agree that it's good it's out of the way, it was a big distraction.

Confused by how I'm confident town to everyone -- it doesn't make sense to me. If I were any of you I'd be very suspicious of me, but I've skated by D2 and D3. Will target this in my re-read to see where it's coming from, since I'd guess the sentiment is more from scum than from town.

For me at least, it's not so much that you're townie, but that the other players are just scummier. I feel like lynching you leaves us with a lot of lurkers (that seems a weird thing to say, considering how you lurked yourself, but I'm confident you'll be more active). I'd much rather take out one of the players who don't have lots of content, as I'm sure scum hides among those.

[Teproc]

Vote Count 3.3

chairs (3): silverspawn, XeresPraelor, Egork
faust (1): chairs
Hydrad (1):  faust
XerxesPraelor (1): Hydrad

Not Voting (3): Ichimaru Gin, Twistedarcher, Seprix

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Day 3 ends at 06:00 p.m. on March 2, 2015.

[faust]

Um. Is anyone there?

Pretty sure it's been a loooooooong time since TA has posted...And actually checking the thread, looks like he hasn't posted in 6 days.

How's your reread going?

[Ichimaru Gin]

Um. Is anyone there?

Pretty sure it's been a loooooooong time since TA has posted...And actually checking the thread, looks like he hasn't posted in 6 days.

How's your reread going?

It's going. I know I probably share a similar amount of blame for this game stalling as everyone else. But seriously, people should post.

After skimming a lot of the thread, I'm liking my silver vote a lot less. I'm not really feeling the chairs case right now though. I kind of like vote: XP. He's voting chairs but would prefer faust?

Also, he's someone who I have a lot of trouble telling his town and scumplay apart. He feels more legitimately scummy to me here though.

[faust]

chairs: What your position on Xerxes vs chairs? Or maybe you'd like to vote Hydrad? The more people pile on Xerxes, the less I'm willing to vote him.

[faust]

Haha, I should realize it doesn't make much sense to ask people whether they like the case on themselves.

[faust]

Yeah, Hydrad looks better just going by how this day plays out:

I say we should lynch among silver/Hydrad.
I conclude that I find Hydrad scummier.
silver rereads and ends up voting chairs.
I argue that Xerxes is also scummy.
My Hydrad case is completely ignored; instead, people pile on chairs/Xerxes.

[silverspawn]

My Hydrad case is completely ignored; instead, people pile on chairs/Xerxes.

Yeah, I also find that really weird.

I don't think your Hydrad case is bad. I'd rather lynch Hydrad than XP.

[Seprix]

Hey, I'm still here! Just busy right now, finished up a song that I posted a link to in Random Stuff Pt. II if you care to listen. If not, eh. I'm going to play Destiny for a bit. When I get back, I'll do that reading thing I talked about in the last post with Windows XP.... Bad joke. Sorry. Probably is such an old joke, it's outdated. Bill Gates wouldn't even support that joke any longer and neither would Microsoft corp.

[silverspawn]

Want to lynch: chairs, Hydrad
Would lynch: TA, IG, XP, and also faust, feeling worse about him now... not entirely sure why
Will not lynch: Seprix

[faust]

Well, the people on the chairs wagon do seem more trustworthy. I'm still kinda not liking the lynch there.

[Ichimaru Gin]

@silverspawn

Didn't you pick Hydrad as someone to study or something?

[silverspawn]

@silverspawn

Didn't you pick Hydrad as someone to study or something?

yeah, but last time I really tried to analyze his style I ended up getting the wrong conclusion, and that kind of demoralized me. He played sooo different in that game and his previous scum game.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Yeah. He's someone that's very difficult for me to read. And unfortunately, I normally seem to read him wrong. He was scum in Musical Mafia, and I totally did not see it.
And then I made what I thought was probably my best case ever on him in ASoIaF, and he flipped town there.

I'm fine with lynching him today though, partially because I suck at reading him so much--which normally lets scum!Hydrad pass completely under my radar.

[faust]

Yeah. He's someone that's very difficult for me to read. And unfortunately, I normally seem to read him wrong. He was scum in Musical Mafia, and I totally did not see it.
And then I made what I thought was probably my best case ever on him in ASoIaF, and he flipped town there.

I'm fine with lynching him today though, partially because I suck at reading him so much--which normally lets scum!Hydrad pass completely under my radar.

How do you feel about chairs?

[faust]

vote: chairs

I prefer Faust. He was on the Awalcus lynch, right.

Why is being on the Awaclus lynch even scummy?

[faust]

Request prod on chairs

[chairs]

Have I really not posted in the last 24 hours?

I was busy last night, and I'm still at work.

[faust]

I guess my prod isn't valid because chairs had this very insightful post.

I, uh, kind of forgot you were playing.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Yeah. He's someone that's very difficult for me to read. And unfortunately, I normally seem to read him wrong. He was scum in Musical Mafia, and I totally did not see it.
And then I made what I thought was probably my best case ever on him in ASoIaF, and he flipped town there.

I'm fine with lynching him today though, partially because I suck at reading him so much--which normally lets scum!Hydrad pass completely under my radar.

How do you feel about chairs?

I'm not really feeling the chairs case right now though.

[faust]

Yeah. He's someone that's very difficult for me to read. And unfortunately, I normally seem to read him wrong. He was scum in Musical Mafia, and I totally did not see it.
And then I made what I thought was probably my best case ever on him in ASoIaF, and he flipped town there.

I'm fine with lynching him today though, partially because I suck at reading him so much--which normally lets scum!Hydrad pass completely under my radar.

How do you feel about chairs?

I'm not really feeling the chairs case right now though.

Elaborate a bit, if possible.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I don't really understand the case on chairs. Wanting to lynch Joseph is by no means scummy--and as I've already pointed out, I'm not sure why scum would heavily push lynching a claimed VT. There was a post of his I highlighted a ways back where I really vibed with what he said--even though a lot of other people didn't.

chairs is also someone else I'm not that good at reading, yet I also think he can be an easy mislynch. I'm not wholeheartedly opposed to his lynch today, but the progress of his wagon also doesn't feel that good to me.

[Hydrad]

@silverspawn

Didn't you pick Hydrad as someone to study or something?

yeah, but last time I really tried to analyze his style I ended up getting the wrong conclusion, and that kind of demoralized me. He played sooo different in that game and his previous scum game.

Ya but you still ended up lynching me

[XerxesPraelor]

I really don't know what to say.

It's scummy to be on the Awalcus lynch because the lynch helped scum, I guess. By game theory we should always give lynching town some scum points.

I could vote for basically everyone, except maybe hydrad. I like having other people I know are town, but for some reason that's not happening this game.

[faust]

I really don't know what to say.

It's scummy to be on the Awalcus lynch because the lynch helped scum, I guess. By game theory we should always give lynching town some scum points.

I could vote for basically everyone, except maybe hydrad. I like having other people I know are town, but for some reason that's not happening this game.

At the time of the Awaclus lynch, we had two claimed VTs, both of them were actually town. Had Joseph been the one who ended up lynched, you would argue that people on his wagon were scummy.

[silverspawn]

I think letting this game stall isn't a good idea right now.

[Teproc]

Vote Count 3.4

chairs (3): silverspawn, XeresPraelor, Egork
faust (1): chairs
Hydrad (1):  faust
XerxesPraelor (1): Hydrad

Not Voting (3): Ichimaru Gin, Twistedarcher, Seprix

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Day 3 ends at 06:00 p.m. on March 2, 2015. That's in less than 48 hours.

[Seprix]

We have 2 days. Relax. Let's get today right and not rush.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Um. I'm actually with SS I think. Last minute lynches normally don't turn out well. I really like a XP lynch today.
Speaking of which.

I'm voting for XP

[Seprix]

Why is XP scum?

[faust]

Hrrrm. This is hard. I have a feeling that it's better to vote: chairs. This is L-1.

[silverspawn]

Hrrrm. This is hard. I have a feeling that it's better to vote: chairs. This is L-1.

I'm not sure I come to the same conclusions as silver. I don't think chairs is particularly scummy. When he hammered Awaclus, it already looked like it was too late to get Joseph lynched.

Xerxes is scummy.

?

[Seprix]

Wow. I'm not hammering without a big reason. I did say Chairs is scum, but... I want to think about the situation.

[Hydrad]

We should also probably give him a chance to claim.

[chairs]

I'm not claiming.

[Seprix]

So that could be either a PR or we found scum. i think chairs might be PR based on this response.

[Hydrad]

I'm not claiming.

Fair enough

[silverspawn]

unvote

I'm willing to give him one more day. If he is a PR that wants to protect his role, he is a good target for scum to kill tonight, which is preferable to lynching him. And if not, we can always reconsider tomorrow, or he can claim with better results.

vote: faust

[faust]

Hrrrm. This is hard. I have a feeling that it's better to vote: chairs. This is L-1.

I'm not sure I come to the same conclusions as silver. I don't think chairs is particularly scummy. When he hammered Awaclus, it already looked like it was too late to get Joseph lynched.

Xerxes is scummy.

?

Can't explain, sorry.

[faust]

Though I can say that chairs' reaction makes me feel better about the vote.

[silverspawn]

Hrrrm. This is hard. I have a feeling that it's better to vote: chairs. This is L-1.

I'm not sure I come to the same conclusions as silver. I don't think chairs is particularly scummy. When he hammered Awaclus, it already looked like it was too late to get Joseph lynched.

Xerxes is scummy.

?

Can't explain, sorry.

This isn't a closed setup. You can't have some hidden information that no-one else has. How does "you can't explain" make any sense?

[Teproc]

Vote Count 3.5

chairs (3): XerxesPraelor, Egork, faust
XerxesPraelor (2): Hydrad, Ichimaru Gin
faust (2): chairs, silverspawn

Not Voting (2): Twistedarcher, Seprix

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Day 3 ends at 06:00 p.m. on March 2, 2015. That's in about 27 hours.

[chairs]

vote: xerxes.

feeling more towny on faust now.

[Seprix]

I'll bite.

vote: xerxes

[silverspawn]

And that is L-1. Care to mention?

Xerxes, I don't really like this lynch, but it looks like you should claim.

[silverspawn]

Also, is no-one else feeling faust? I'm getting a super scummy vibe from him right now.

[Seprix]

And that is L-1. Care to mention?

Xerxes, I don't really like this lynch, but it looks like you should claim.

Oh shoot. Of course. >_>

[faust]

Hrrrm. This is hard. I have a feeling that it's better to vote: chairs. This is L-1.

I'm not sure I come to the same conclusions as silver. I don't think chairs is particularly scummy. When he hammered Awaclus, it already looked like it was too late to get Joseph lynched.

Xerxes is scummy.

?

Can't explain, sorry.

This isn't a closed setup. You can't have some hidden information that no-one else has. How does "you can't explain" make any sense?

I'm not answering this.

[faust]

And that is L-1. Care to mention?

Xerxes, I don't really like this lynch, but it looks like you should claim.

Man. Xerxes, there is no need to claim until someone states intent to hammer.

I'm starting to feel worse about silver.

[faust]

Request prod on TA

[Teproc]

Vote Count 3.6

XerxesPraelor (4): Hydrad, Ichimaru Gin, chairs, Seprix  {L-1}
chairs (3): XerxesPraelor, Egork, faust
faust (1): silverspawn

Not Voting (1): Twistedarcher

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. 

Day 3 ends at 06:00 p.m. on March 2, 2015. That's in 24 hours.

Request prod on TA

Twistedarcher has been prodded.

[silverspawn]

And that is L-1. Care to mention?

Xerxes, I don't really like this lynch, but it looks like you should claim.

Man. Xerxes, there is no need to claim until someone states intent to hammer.

I'm starting to feel worse about silver.

seriously? because I asked him to claim before someone could hammer?

[XerxesPraelor]

Don't derphammer me.

vote: silverspawn

We need an alternate lynch, and silverspawn looks the worst for putting me in this situation. Faust would be fine with me too.

[XerxesPraelor]

actually,

Vote: Faust

[silverspawn]

Don't derphammer me.

vote: silverspawn

We need an alternate lynch, and silverspawn looks the worst for putting me in this situation. Faust would be fine with me too.

How did I put you in this situation? I'm not even on your wagon.

[silverspawn]

actually,

Vote: Faust

?? first you want to vote for me and now you sheep me?

[silverspawn]

why is everyone being so inconsistent?

[XerxesPraelor]

actually,

Vote: Faust

?? first you want to vote for me and now you sheep me?

I misread the situation.

[Seprix]

Why not just edit as you type though? Why leave both your vote for SS and Faust up?

[Hydrad]

Why not just edit as you type though? Why leave both your vote for SS and Faust up?

He did his votes in 2 different posts I think.

[Seprix]

Why not just edit as you type though? Why leave both your vote for SS and Faust up?

He did his votes in 2 different posts I think.

Why did I read that as one post? Wow.

[Ichimaru Gin]

We need an alternate lynch

Why?

[XerxesPraelor]

Because I'm not going to be the lynch.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Because I'm not going to be the lynch.

I'm not going to ask the same question again, but I'm tempted to. Seriously though, there's not much that makes me think you're town.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Well. I'm going to sleep soon. Won't be back for ~10 hours or so. I don't have high hopes that we'll lynch XP--given the end of D1 and all. If we haven't lynched anyone before I return, I'm willing to switch my vote if it looks like XP still isn't happening. I don't like the chairs wagon though.

[Teproc]

Vote Count 3.7

XerxesPraelor (4): Hydrad, Ichimaru Gin, chairs, Seprix  {L-1}
chairs (2): Egork, faust
faust (2): silverspawn, XerxesPraelor

Not Voting (1): Twistedarcher

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. 

Day 3 ends at 06:00 p.m. on March 2, 2015. That's in about 15 hours.

[faust]

And that is L-1. Care to mention?

Xerxes, I don't really like this lynch, but it looks like you should claim.

Man. Xerxes, there is no need to claim until someone states intent to hammer.

I'm starting to feel worse about silver.

seriously? because I asked him to claim before someone could hammer?

Because you're trying to out town PRs.

[faust]

Don't derphammer me.

vote: silverspawn

We need an alternate lynch, and silverspawn looks the worst for putting me in this situation. Faust would be fine with me too.

What about chairs?

[faust]

Because I'm not going to be the lynch.

Well, same for me. I prefer chairs, or really, someone else (what about Ichi? He's gotten surprisingly little suspicion today, and I don't really know why) to the Xerxes lynch right now. But if people don't shift their votes in the next 5 hours, I'm going to hammer Xerxes, because lynching Xerxes > lynching me.

[XerxesPraelor]

As most of you have guessed, I'm a PR. Do I need to specify whicch one?

Lynch Faust if he hammers me now.

[faust]

As most of you have guessed, I'm a PR. Do I need to specify whicch one?

Lynch Faust if he hammers me now.

I don't think a full claim hurts us much here. And it can help us figure out whether you're telling the truth.

[faust]

Also, Xerxes, to repeat the question: How do you feel about lynching chairs?

[faust]

<10 hours to deadline! Where is everyone?

[faust]

I'm also okay with lynching superlurker!TA

[Hydrad]

I am here. I don't know what to do with claims though as with this setup scum can fakeclaim super easily.

[Seprix]

I'm here. I don't really have much to add yet, but I'll be checking this thread quite a bit. I mean, the deadline is tonight.

[faust]

I'm here. I don't really have much to add yet, but I'll be checking this thread quite a bit. I mean, the deadline is tonight.

How do you feel about Xerxes' claim?

[Seprix]

I'm here. I don't really have much to add yet, but I'll be checking this thread quite a bit. I mean, the deadline is tonight.

How do you feel about Xerxes' claim?

He says he's a PR. We have to be a bit careful because we lost TW already. But I suppose the odds of hitting scum are higher since we already lost a PR.

[Seprix]

If I am correct in my calculations, there should be a Mafia rolestopper since the Watcher died. There may or may not be a third PR so Xerxes might be the 3-shot cop or one of the optional PRs, which means Mafia has one too. Is there any indication that Mafia might have another role besides Rolestopper?

I calculated these with the first few posts in probability Teproc posted. I think that's all we really know right now. Joseph died (VT) and Awaclus died (TW) and ADK died (VT). Since this is day 3, assuming Cop used his 2 shots, he has one shot left. He may have more. So I think we don't lynch XP after all, at least for today. The risk of losing our possible only PR is too much.

[Seprix]

unvote: xp

[faust]

unvote: xp

Vote somewhere else!

[faust]

This is SO frutrating.

Vote: Twistedarcher

[Teproc]

Vote Count 3.8

XerxesPraelor (3): Hydrad, Ichimaru Gin, chairs 
faust (2): silverspawn, XerxesPraelor
chairs (1): Egork
Twistedarcher (1): faust

Not Voting (2): Twistedarcher, Seprix

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. 

Day 3 ends at 06:00 p.m. on March 2, 2015. That's in less than 6 hours.

[silverspawn]

6 hours, huh? let us lynch faust, poeple.

[Seprix]

I'm between Faust, TwistedArcher (who has been inactive recently) and Chairs.

[faust]

I'm between Faust, TwistedArcher (who has been inactive recently) and Chairs.

Why not the rest?

[Seprix]

I like vote: TwistedArcher

[faust]

If I am correct in my calculations, there should be a Mafia rolestopper since the Watcher died. There may or may not be a third PR so Xerxes might be the 3-shot cop or one of the optional PRs, which means Mafia has one too. Is there any indication that Mafia might have another role besides Rolestopper?

I calculated these with the first few posts in probability Teproc posted. I think that's all we really know right now. Joseph died (VT) and Awaclus died (TW) and ADK died (VT). Since this is day 3, assuming Cop used his 2 shots, he has one shot left. He may have more. So I think we don't lynch XP after all, at least for today. The risk of losing our possible only PR is too much.

I don't think this is true at all. Scum will always claim PR here; keeping scum alive now brings us to LyLo tomorrow. Using this as an excuse not to vote people you think are scummy is no good.

[Seprix]

If I am correct in my calculations, there should be a Mafia rolestopper since the Watcher died. There may or may not be a third PR so Xerxes might be the 3-shot cop or one of the optional PRs, which means Mafia has one too. Is there any indication that Mafia might have another role besides Rolestopper?

I calculated these with the first few posts in probability Teproc posted. I think that's all we really know right now. Joseph died (VT) and Awaclus died (TW) and ADK died (VT). Since this is day 3, assuming Cop used his 2 shots, he has one shot left. He may have more. So I think we don't lynch XP after all, at least for today. The risk of losing our possible only PR is too much.

I don't think this is true at all. Scum will always claim PR here; keeping scum alive now brings us to LyLo tomorrow. Using this as an excuse not to vote people you think are scummy is no good.

Non-scum will claim PR as well, and I don't think we want to screw up our vote. So is our lynch going to be Faust, XP, or TA?

[faust]

If I am correct in my calculations, there should be a Mafia rolestopper since the Watcher died. There may or may not be a third PR so Xerxes might be the 3-shot cop or one of the optional PRs, which means Mafia has one too. Is there any indication that Mafia might have another role besides Rolestopper?

I calculated these with the first few posts in probability Teproc posted. I think that's all we really know right now. Joseph died (VT) and Awaclus died (TW) and ADK died (VT). Since this is day 3, assuming Cop used his 2 shots, he has one shot left. He may have more. So I think we don't lynch XP after all, at least for today. The risk of losing our possible only PR is too much.

I don't think this is true at all. Scum will always claim PR here; keeping scum alive now brings us to LyLo tomorrow. Using this as an excuse not to vote people you think are scummy is no good.

Non-scum will claim PR as well, and I don't think we want to screw up our vote. So is our lynch going to be Faust, XP, or TA?

What does that even mean?

[Seprix]

If I am correct in my calculations, there should be a Mafia rolestopper since the Watcher died. There may or may not be a third PR so Xerxes might be the 3-shot cop or one of the optional PRs, which means Mafia has one too. Is there any indication that Mafia might have another role besides Rolestopper?

I calculated these with the first few posts in probability Teproc posted. I think that's all we really know right now. Joseph died (VT) and Awaclus died (TW) and ADK died (VT). Since this is day 3, assuming Cop used his 2 shots, he has one shot left. He may have more. So I think we don't lynch XP after all, at least for today. The risk of losing our possible only PR is too much.

I don't think this is true at all. Scum will always claim PR here; keeping scum alive now brings us to LyLo tomorrow. Using this as an excuse not to vote people you think are scummy is no good.

Non-scum will claim PR as well, and I don't think we want to screw up our vote. So is our lynch going to be Faust, XP, or TA?

What does that even mean?

I'm going to vote for XP next day, on the off chance he might be telling the truth.

[faust]

That doesnt make too much sense. Also you didn't answer my question.

[Seprix]

That doesnt make too much sense. Also you didn't answer my question.

I'm saying that XP might be telling the truth. We are in a bad spot, and lynching a claimed PR here while he can still use his power is bad for us.

Well, maybe not. He won't be alive to tell us any information if he's a PR. And if he is alive, he'll likely be lynched anyways. I didn't think this through. I like XP lynch after all, I think.

[faust]

That doesnt make too much sense. Also you didn't answer my question.

I'm saying that XP might be telling the truth. We are in a bad spot, and lynching a claimed PR here while he can still use his power is bad for us.

Well, maybe not. He won't be alive to tell us any information if he's a PR. And if he is alive, he'll likely be lynched anyways. I didn't think this through. I like XP lynch after all, I think.

Why don't you consider a lynch outside of chairs/TA/me?

[silverspawn]

That doesnt make too much sense. Also you didn't answer my question.

I'm saying that XP might be telling the truth. We are in a bad spot, and lynching a claimed PR here while he can still use his power is bad for us.

Well, maybe not. He won't be alive to tell us any information if he's a PR. And if he is alive, he'll likely be lynched anyways. I didn't think this through. I like XP lynch after all, I think.

no, you're not thinking it through now. If he dies tonight, that's much better than if we lynch him. And if he is scum, we can just lynch him tomorrow.

[Seprix]

That doesnt make too much sense. Also you didn't answer my question.

I'm saying that XP might be telling the truth. We are in a bad spot, and lynching a claimed PR here while he can still use his power is bad for us.

Well, maybe not. He won't be alive to tell us any information if he's a PR. And if he is alive, he'll likely be lynched anyways. I didn't think this through. I like XP lynch after all, I think.

Why don't you consider a lynch outside of chairs/TA/me?

Hydrad? SS? I mean, at least SS is contributing. TA was contributing, but now he's been gone for some time now. Chairs was lurking sometimes. I suppose Hydrad is a suspect, but I'm inclined to think he's town right now. And as for you Faust, you're the least scummy of my scum reads, but it seems more likely than not you might be lynched if XP isn't.

[Seprix]

That doesnt make too much sense. Also you didn't answer my question.

I'm saying that XP might be telling the truth. We are in a bad spot, and lynching a claimed PR here while he can still use his power is bad for us.

Well, maybe not. He won't be alive to tell us any information if he's a PR. And if he is alive, he'll likely be lynched anyways. I didn't think this through. I like XP lynch after all, I think.

no, you're not thinking it through now. If he dies tonight, that's much better than if we lynch him. And if he is scum, we can just lynch him tomorrow.

No, you're right. I'm overthinking this.

[faust]

That doesnt make too much sense. Also you didn't answer my question.

I'm saying that XP might be telling the truth. We are in a bad spot, and lynching a claimed PR here while he can still use his power is bad for us.

Well, maybe not. He won't be alive to tell us any information if he's a PR. And if he is alive, he'll likely be lynched anyways. I didn't think this through. I like XP lynch after all, I think.

Why don't you consider a lynch outside of chairs/TA/me?

Hydrad? SS? I mean, at least SS is contributing. TA was contributing, but now he's been gone for some time now. Chairs was lurking sometimes. I suppose Hydrad is a suspect, but I'm inclined to think he's town right now. And as for you Faust, you're the least scummy of my scum reads, but it seems more likely than not you might be lynched if XP isn't.

What about Ichi?

[faust]

That doesnt make too much sense. Also you didn't answer my question.

I'm saying that XP might be telling the truth. We are in a bad spot, and lynching a claimed PR here while he can still use his power is bad for us.

Well, maybe not. He won't be alive to tell us any information if he's a PR. And if he is alive, he'll likely be lynched anyways. I didn't think this through. I like XP lynch after all, I think.

no, you're not thinking it through now. If he dies tonight, that's much better than if we lynch him. And if he is scum, we can just lynch him tomorrow.

Why are you voting for me again?

[Seprix]

That doesnt make too much sense. Also you didn't answer my question.

I'm saying that XP might be telling the truth. We are in a bad spot, and lynching a claimed PR here while he can still use his power is bad for us.

Well, maybe not. He won't be alive to tell us any information if he's a PR. And if he is alive, he'll likely be lynched anyways. I didn't think this through. I like XP lynch after all, I think.

Why don't you consider a lynch outside of chairs/TA/me?

Hydrad? SS? I mean, at least SS is contributing. TA was contributing, but now he's been gone for some time now. Chairs was lurking sometimes. I suppose Hydrad is a suspect, but I'm inclined to think he's town right now. And as for you Faust, you're the least scummy of my scum reads, but it seems more likely than not you might be lynched if XP isn't.

What about Ichi?

I forgot about him, lol. He's towny to me.

[chairs]

My head hurts from all this quoting.

[faust]

I forgot about him, lol. He's towny to me.

Why is that?

[faust]

My head hurts from all this quoting.

chairs, helpful as ever

[silverspawn]

right, Ichi is in this game... what did I think about him? I think there was some reason why I didn't want to vote for him...

[silverspawn]

mh, he was the guy I reread and found towny. that's not a great lynch.

let's do faust... or chairs, if we have to.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I'm warming up to a faust lynch.

[faust]

I'm warming up to a faust lynch.

Why?

[faust]

Lynching me is bad. There's not even a case against me. I should have lynched Xerxes while I had the chance.

[Seprix]

Lynching me is bad. There's not even a case against me. I should have lynched Xerxes while I had the chance.

We have XP claiming PR, Chairs refuses to say anything. What say you about claiming? Are you PR? VT?

[faust]

Xerxes, if you really are a PR, it would be helpful to give us some insight into your additional knowledge. Is there anyone you think is town/scum based on your night actions?

[faust]

Lynching me is bad. There's not even a case against me. I should have lynched Xerxes while I had the chance.

We have XP claiming PR, Chairs refuses to say anything. What say you about claiming? Are you PR? VT?
[/quote

Blatant rolefishing.

Vote: Seprix

[faust]

Lynching me is bad. There's not even a case against me. I should have lynched Xerxes while I had the chance.

We have XP claiming PR, Chairs refuses to say anything. What say you about claiming? Are you PR? VT?

Blatant rolefishing.

Vote: Seprix

[Ichimaru Gin]

I'm warming up to a faust lynch.

Why?

You're sounding out people's opinion on me for no reason while not committing yourself. It feels scummy, like you're trying to set me up.

PPE: 4

[faust]

I'm warming up to a faust lynch.

Why?

You're sounding out people's opinion on me for no reason while not committing yourself. It feels scummy, like you're trying to set me up.

PPE: 4

I said I would be fine lynching you. You're a better lynch than Xerxes.

[Seprix]

Lynching me is bad. There's not even a case against me. I should have lynched Xerxes while I had the chance.

We have XP claiming PR, Chairs refuses to say anything. What say you about claiming? Are you PR? VT?

Blatant rolefishing.

Vote: Seprix

We're not in the best of places, I'll remind you.

[Ichimaru Gin]

wth? Are you serious. This is completely out of the blue--and there is no way I'm a better lynch than supposedly-a-PR-XP.

What about your other reads?

Of SS/faust I am feeling much scummier on faust.

PPE: 1

[Hydrad]

oh man how I love the last 6 hours of the day.

I guess I could do chairs?

I think for me right now its

XP=chairs>faust.

[XerxesPraelor]

I'm fine with chairs except that Faust is trying to lynch him.

I'm a doctor targeted seprix N1, IG N2. I.E. no information. I'm revealing this to limit scum!me options so you believe I'm town.

I don't want to lynch TA.

[Seprix]

Mafioso A-> 2-shot Roleblocker
Vanilla Townie -> Doctor

If this is true, the other Mafia is RB. And we don't know who our 3-shot cop is. Perhaps it's best we don't know this, for protection.

[faust]

wth? Are you serious. This is completely out of the blue--and there is no way I'm a better lynch than supposedly-a-PR-XP.

What about your other reads?

Of SS/faust I am feeling much scummier on faust.

PPE: 1

Look, this:

On wagon, my reads are currently Xerxes > Ichi > chairs > TA > Seprix... but that's again not really backed up yet. I'll reread as soon as possible.

My reads on Xerxes and chairs changed a bit since then. I got carried away with Seprix. I don't really think he's scum, but he's annoying.

Vote: chairs

By the way I'm not voting Hydrad because I think Xerxes has a reason to think he's town.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I'm fine with chairs except that Faust is trying to lynch him.

I'm a doctor targeted seprix N1, IG N2. I.E. no information. I'm revealing this to limit scum!me options so you believe I'm town.

I don't want to lynch TA.

Guess I don't want to lynch XP anymore.

PPE: 2

[faust]

Bah. So Hydrad is back in the game.

[Seprix]

vote count?

unvote

[faust]

Well, if Xerxes is telling the truth, then scum will have to kill him before long. I don't think we should lynch him.

[Seprix]

Well, if Xerxes is telling the truth, then scum will have to kill him before long. I don't think we should lynch him.

Which means SS's logic was right.

[Hydrad]

Unvote

[faust]

Well, if Xerxes is telling the truth, then scum will have to kill him before long. I don't think we should lynch him.

Which means SS's logic was right.

This doesn't apply to all PRs.

[faust]

Don't unvote, vote, dammit.

[Seprix]

Chairs, Faust, or Archer. Those are the only 3 I am going to lynch without substantial evidence for lynching someone not on my list.

[faust]

Vote Count 3.7.faust

XerxesPraelor (4): Ichimaru Gin, chairs
chairs (2): Egork, faust
faust (2): silverspawn, XerxesPraelor

Not Voting (3): Twistedarcher, Seprix, Hydrad

[faust]

Chairs, Faust, or Archer. Those are the only 3 I am going to lynch without substantial evidence for lynching someone not on my list.

Why is Ichi town?

[faust]

chairs, Ichi, seprix, Hydrad, TA - do something with your votes!

[Hydrad]

chairs, Ichi, seprix, Hydrad, TA - do something with your votes!

I'm thinking!!!

[Seprix]

Vote Count 3.7.faust

XerxesPraelor (4): Ichimaru Gin, chairs
chairs (2): Egork, faust
faust (2): silverspawn, XerxesPraelor

Not Voting (3): Twistedarcher, Seprix, Hydrad

who are the two invisible blokes voting for XP?

[Ichimaru Gin]

How long until the deadline?

[Seprix]

How long until the deadline?

That's a fantastic question.

[faust]

How long until the deadline?

A bit over 4 hours.

[faust]

Seprix - why are you escaping my question?

[Seprix]

Vote Count 3.7

XerxesPraelor (4): Hydrad, Ichimaru Gin, chairs, Seprix  {L-1}
chairs (2): Egork, faust
faust (2): silverspawn, XerxesPraelor

Not Voting (1): Twistedarcher

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. 

Day 3 ends at 06:00 p.m. on March 2, 2015. That's in about 15 hours.

Based on this post now and that post then...

I'd say about 4 hours.

[Seprix]

Chairs, Faust, or Archer. Those are the only 3 I am going to lynch without substantial evidence for lynching someone not on my list.

Why is Ichi town?

Because I think he's a good person. He's been asking all the right questions, and has played well enough to make me think he's one of the good guys.

[silverspawn]

faust: why is doctor a better fakeclaim than just "PR"?

[faust]

faust: why is doctor a better fakeclaim than just "PR"?

I don't know why you're saying "fakeclaim"...

Doctor gets stronger the longer the game moves on. Scum has to neutralize the Doc to be able to kill off any other (claimed) PR.

[silverspawn]

faust: why is doctor a better fakeclaim than just "PR"?

I don't know why you're saying "fakeclaim"...

because you were assuming that his original claim was fake

[faust]

faust: why is doctor a better fakeclaim than just "PR"?

I don't know why you're saying "fakeclaim"...

because you were assuming that his original claim was fake

Where was that?

[silverspawn]

he claimed, you still wanted to lynch him. If that doesn't mean you thought his claim was fake, it means you're scum

vote: faust

[faust]

he claimed, you still wanted to lynch him. If that doesn't mean you thought his claim was fake, it means you're scum

vote: faust

When did I want to lynch him?

[Seprix]

he claimed, you still wanted to lynch him. If that doesn't mean you thought his claim was fake, it means you're scum

vote: faust

vote: faust

I believe this is L-1.

[faust]

Oh, and you're already voting for me.

[faust]

he claimed, you still wanted to lynch him. If that doesn't mean you thought his claim was fake, it means you're scum

vote: faust

vote: faust

I believe this is L-1.

It's not.

[silverspawn]

Oh, and you're already voting for me.

I know. I just wanted to put more empathy on it

which means it's L-2 not L-1

[faust]

Oh, and you're already voting for me.

I know. I just wanted to put more empathy on it

which means it's L-2 not L-1

Answer my question.

[Seprix]

Oh, and you're already voting for me.

I know. I just wanted to put more empathy on it

which means it's L-2 not L-1

Silver! *puts hands on my hip*

[silverspawn]

Oh, and you're already voting for me.

I know. I just wanted to put more empathy on it

which means it's L-2 not L-1

Answer my question.

yes sir scum sir

uh... didn't you push his lynch until now? let me check. not that it matters.

[Hydrad]

Hmmm oh man.

I still have the slight urge that faust is town.

At this point I'm willing to hammer if we arn't able to get someone else.

I think i'll go

Vote: chairs though.

[faust]

Oh, and you're already voting for me.

I know. I just wanted to put more empathy on it

which means it's L-2 not L-1

Answer my question.

yes sir scum sir

uh... didn't you push his lynch until now? let me check. not that it matters.

Not that it matters, because you stopped second-guessing yourself a long time ago.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Darn it. Now I'm not sure who to vote for.

[silverspawn]

no, that was chairs

Not that it matters, because you stopped second-guessing yourself a long time ago.

uhm... what?  I didn't base my vote on you on that, that's why it doesn't matter, and I'm second guessing myself constantly.

[silverspawn]

Darn it. Now I'm not sure who to vote for.

how is faust being any less scummy based on his last posts?

[Seprix]

Faust or Chairs. I think TA is scummy right now, but maybe he's busy. I think should lynch Chairs or Faust.

[faust]

There's no way around it, is there?

I am the Tracker.

I tracked Joseph N1... well, he didn't target anyone obviously. Then, N2, I tracked chairs, and he didn't do any targeting either. So I figured he would be a VT, and didn't want to vote for him. Then he had this "I'm not claiming" moment, implying he was a PR. But I know he's not a PR, which makes his lynch much better to me.

[silverspawn]

umpff...

[faust]

Look, I even breadcrumbed in my first post (something I always wanted to try).

So this started, huh? I should keep better track of what I sign up for... soon I might be in 3 games at once and mod one.

Why has noone voted ADK yet? Vote: ADK

[faust]

Hopefully Xerxes can keep me alive for another night.

[Hydrad]

I feel like town is extremely good at hitting all their PR's early on in this setup.

This feels like what happened last time too.

[silverspawn]

Okay, so you had this post prior to chairs "I won't claim" post

Hrrrm. This is hard. I have a feeling that it's better to vote: chairs. This is L-1.

and this one afterwards:

Though I can say that chairs' reaction makes me feel better about the vote.

So, the second vote makes sense. But the problem is that "I'm not claiming" =/= "I'm a PR"

I don't think chairs ever claimed PR. He could just be a VT.

chairs?

[faust]

I feel like town is extremely good at hitting all their PR's early on in this setup.

This feels like what happened last time too.

Well, it's not so early. I was just too bad at tracking to find scum in time.

[Seprix]

Well, we found scum. It's Faust.

[silverspawn]

Look, I even breadcrumbed in my first post (something I always wanted to try).

So this started, huh? I should keep better track of what I sign up for... soon I might be in 3 games at once and mod one.

Why has noone voted ADK yet? Vote: ADK

hah, well that would be cute if it's true. Of course you could just as easily do it as scum

still though I'm inclined to believe your claim for now

[silverspawn]

Well, we found scum. It's Faust.

why? what's wrong with his claim?

[Hydrad]

I feel like town is extremely good at hitting all their PR's early on in this setup.

This feels like what happened last time too.

Well, it's not so early. I was just too bad at tracking to find scum in time.

I guess I mean we lost watcher day 1. and have doctor and tracker claimed already.

Seems kinda fast. But I guess if town has lots of PR's rolled the odds are actually kinda average right now.

[Hydrad]

Well, we found scum. It's Faust.

?!?!?!

[Seprix]

Well, we found scum. It's Faust.

why? what's wrong with his claim?

Well, if the Watcher died, then Scum B is already RB. Tracker gives Scum B another role. Can scum have multiple roles?

[Seprix]

Well, we found scum. It's Faust.

why? what's wrong with his claim?

Well, if the Watcher died, then Scum B is already RB. Tracker gives Scum B another role. Can scum have multiple roles?

If scum can be multiple things, than we're cool. If not, then that's it.

[silverspawn]

well, I think there's a > 50% chance that at least one of {XP, faust} is scum

[Hydrad]

Well, we found scum. It's Faust.

why? what's wrong with his claim?

Well, if the Watcher died, then Scum B is already RB. Tracker gives Scum B another role. Can scum have multiple roles?

Scum can be multiple.

[Seprix]

Well, we found scum. It's Faust.

why? what's wrong with his claim?

Well, if the Watcher died, then Scum B is already RB. Tracker gives Scum B another role. Can scum have multiple roles?

Scum can be multiple.

Got it. I thought I like saved the day there! XD Now we're back to a scary scenario..

[faust]

Well, we found scum. It's Faust.

why? what's wrong with his claim?

Well, if the Watcher died, then Scum B is already RB. Tracker gives Scum B another role. Can scum have multiple roles?

If scum can be multiple things, than we're cool. If not, then that's it.

Well, this makes me more sure again that Seprix is town. It could be faked, but that would be pretty high-level play, and Seprix is still new-ish.

[faust]

well, I think there's a > 50% chance that at least one of {XP, faust} is scum

Why do you think that?

[silverspawn]

so, faust,  do you think chairs "I won't claim" is basically the same as claiming PR?

[faust]

No way I'm lynching Xerxes btw. He's like my one chance to stay alive and be useful.

[faust]

so, faust,  do you think chairs "I won't claim" is basically the same as claiming PR?

No, but I think it's something that is more likely to come from a PR or scum than from a VT.

[silverspawn]

well, I think there's a > 50% chance that at least one of {XP, faust} is scum

Why do you think that?

because scum is most likely going to claim PR, so a PR claim can just as easily come from town as it can from scum. and I'm at ~60% on both of you, maybe a little higher. that's >50% for either of you.

But whether it's below or above 50% really doesn't matter.

[Ichimaru Gin]

So do you still want to lynch me faust?

[silverspawn]

alright. fine.

vote: chairs

He was super scummy anyway.

[Seprix]

alright. fine.

vote: chairs

He was super scummy anyway.

unvote

vote: chairs

[faust]

So do you still want to lynch me faust?

You and chairs are my top candidates.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Well. I guess that's about all I can do now that all my scumreads dried up. vote: chairs

How many votes is that btw?

PPE: faust

[faust]

alright. fine.

vote: chairs

He was super scummy anyway.

unvote

vote: chairs

Err... I think that was the hammer? We could at least haven given him time to deal with the situation...

[faust]

Well, he's definitely hammered now.

[Seprix]

Crap, that might not be good.

[Hydrad]

welp. last few hours of the day. No one knows what can happen!

[silverspawn]

well... I don't think it matters. If he had claimed a PR, we definitely would have lynched him after what faust said. And if he had claimed VT, we probably would have lynched him too, because that's the logical thing for scum to do in his situation.

Let's just hope he's scum...

[silverspawn]

if not, the game and faust are looking equally bad.

[Seprix]

well... I don't think it matters. If he had claimed a PR, we definitely would have lynched him after what faust said. And if he had claimed VT, we probably would have lynched him too, because that's the logical thing for scum to do in his situation.

Let's just hope he's scum...

And if he isn't? We're going to have to have a perfect run, because I think it'll be one-mislynch-and-done.

[faust]

if not, the game and faust are looking equally bad.

+1

[Seprix]

if not, the game and faust are looking equally bad.

lol

[faust]

well... I don't think it matters. If he had claimed a PR, we definitely would have lynched him after what faust said. And if he had claimed VT, we probably would have lynched him too, because that's the logical thing for scum to do in his situation.

Let's just hope he's scum...

And if he isn't? We're going to have to have a perfect run, because I think it'll be one-mislynch-and-done.

Says the guy who hammered chairs.

[Seprix]

well... I don't think it matters. If he had claimed a PR, we definitely would have lynched him after what faust said. And if he had claimed VT, we probably would have lynched him too, because that's the logical thing for scum to do in his situation.

Let's just hope he's scum...

And if he isn't? We're going to have to have a perfect run, because I think it'll be one-mislynch-and-done.

Says the guy who hammered chairs.

I didn't think it was L-1. That was careless of me.

[Teproc]

THREAD LOCKED

[Teproc]

Final Vote Count

chairs (5): Egork, faust, Hydrad, silverspawn, Seprix

faust (1): XerxesPraelor
XerxesPraelor (2): Ichimaru Gin, chairs 

Not Voting (1): Twistedarcher

With 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch. 

chairs has been lynched. He was a Vanilla Townie

Night 3 will last 48 hours. All players are required to check in with me via PM or QT.

[Teproc]

Twistedarcher was killed in the night. He was the Town Universal Back-Up.

Day 4 begins !

Vote Count 4.0

Not Voting (7): Egork, faust, Hydrad, silverspawn, Seprix, XerxesPraelor, Ichimaru Gin

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. 

Day 4 ends at 06:00 p.m. on March 12, 2015.

Apologies for the late open, had 6pm stuck in my head.

[silverspawn]

 

[Ichimaru Gin]

vote: faust

[silverspawn]

This is LyLo, right?

So, I think faust gets a pass for today, because his claim doesn't make sense from a scum perspective. He said chairs didn't target anyone - which was correct, since he was a VT - but scum!faust had no way of knowing that he wasn't a PR.

I also still think Seprix is town. and EgorK is an IC. That only leaves Hydrad, XP and IG.

So... vote: Hydrad

[silverspawn]

vote: faust

 

[XerxesPraelor]

vote: hydrad

Let's do this.

Targeted Septic last night again, FWIW.

[Ichimaru Gin]

You mean Seprix?

[XerxesPraelor]

Yeah - autocorrect.

[Teproc]

Vote Count 4.1

Hydrad (2): silverspawn, XerxesPraelor
faust (1): Ichimaru Gin

Not Voting (4): Egork, faust, Hydrad, Seprix

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. 

Day 4 ends at 06:00 p.m. on March 12, 2015.

[Ichimaru Gin]

vote: faust

 

faust is scum. I'm the Alignment Cop. I investigated Joseph night 1 and was told he was mafia. So scum must have used their Psychotrooper shot.
I investigated TA night 2 and got a No Result.

So let's lynch faust now.

[XerxesPraelor]

Are we at Lylo?

[silverspawn]

well, scum can't fakeclaim alignment cop, so this is a closed case, right?

[silverspawn]

Though in that case I'm pretty impressed with faust's claim.

Unless maybe there was PoE or something and he knew chairs was no PR. I was going to reread that, but it doesn't seem to matter now.

So we lynch faust. I think we should give everyone the opportunity to post first though.

[Hydrad]

uhhhh? 1 sec.

[Hydrad]

Sooo I guess I'm at Vote: IG

[faust]

Vote: Hydrad

[Hydrad]

I'm the cop.

SS night 1 was scum. As you can see by day 2 I hardcore tunneled SS.

TA night 2 was town as there was a post I said on day 3 where I said he was really towny.

IG night 3 no result

[Hydrad]

Day 2 Final Vote Count

Joseph2302 (6): Ichimaru Gin, A Drowned Kernel, chairs, XerxesPraelor, Twistedarcher, Seprix

silverspawn (2): Hydrad, faust
faust (1): silverspawn
chairs (1): Joseph2302

Not Voting (1): Egork

With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.

Day 2 ends at 01:00 p.m. on February 21, 2015.

Joseph2302 has been lynched. He was a Vanilla Townie

Night 2 will last 48 hours. All players are required to check in with me through PM or QT.

So - wagon analysis. Only three players and the IC are off-wagon. Now would scum throw all their votes on the wagon? On Joseph, who was an easy mislynch anyway? I kinda doubt that. Which would imply that there is scum among Hydrad/silver (well, for me, I guess you have to consider that I could be scum). I've gotten a townish feel from silver lately, but I want to reread both of them thoroughly before the day ends.

On wagon, my reads are currently Xerxes > Ichi > chairs > TA > Seprix... but that's again not really backed up yet. I'll reread as soon as possible.

I like this point. I agree mainly on the wagon reads with faust I guess. I actually might put TA as more towny then seprix.

but ya I doubt all scum was on that wagon and since theres me/IC/faust/SS. SS is still the best choice.

This is the post early in day 3 where I said TA was towny.

[Hydrad]

also if your town you should probably unvote before scum hammers and wins.

[silverspawn]

what? unvote. stop voting people

[silverspawn]

EVERYONE UNVOTE NOW SO WE CAN THINK THINGS THROUGH

[silverspawn]

I'm the cop.

SS night 1 was scum. As you can see by day 2 I hardcore tunneled SS.

TA night 2 was town as there was a post I said on day 3 where I said he was really towny.

IG night 3 no result

Okay, so, there is no way in this setup for a cop to receive guilty on a town, right? the psychotrooper only works on yourself.

That means Hydrad is lying because he's desperate, and IG is the alignment cop.

[silverspawn]

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this means

faust is 100% scum
Hydrad is 100% scum
Egork, IG and me are IC's

[Ichimaru Gin]

Of course Hydrad is lying. I am now 100% certain Hydrad is faust's partner and he's trying to save him.

PPE: Yep.

[Teproc]

Vote Count 4.2

Hydrad (2): XerxesPraelor, faust
faust (1): Ichimaru Gin
Ichimaru Gin (1): Hydrad

Not Voting (3): Egork, Seprix, silverspawn

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. 

Day 4 ends at 06:00 p.m. on March 12, 2015.

[silverspawn]

Vote: Hydrad

?? if Hydrad is lying it means IG is not lying and you are scum. explain this vote please

[Ichimaru Gin]

vote: Hydrad Same difference. We lynch faust tomorrow then.

[silverspawn]

wait... maybe there are other players who want to make claims or something

[silverspawn]

Let me look at the setup first


Modification 1:
Mafioso A-> 2-shot Roleblocker
Vanilla Townie -> Doctor

Modification 2:
Mafioso A -> Rolecop
Vanilla Townie -> Town Roleblocker

Modification 3:
Mafioso B -> 2-shot Rolestopper
Vanilla Townie ->Watcher

Modification 4:
Mafioso B -> 1-shot Ninja
Vanilla Townie ->Tracker

Modification 5:
Mafia Boss -> Cop Enabler
Vanilla Townie ->Universal Backup

[silverspawn]

Modifications 3 and 5 are there, because our backup and watcher died. So scum has a cop enabler - already a reason to rethink the lynch

XP claimed doctor, so that would be modification 1. IG also got no result once, so that could be the scum roleblocker. But it could also be the rolestopper, which they have by default. so that's not cleared, but there's a good chance that it's there.

and no-one has claimed Roleblocker or Tracker, so #2 and #4 probably aren't there

[silverspawn]

So, you used all of your shots. Which means you're just an IC now, it doesn't matter if the cop enabler dies.

[Hydrad]

wait psyco isn't that just that night everything is wrong? I don't think they need to target anything

[Hydrad]

also I think its IG/faust team

[silverspawn]

wait psyco isn't that just that night everything is wrong? I don't think they need to target anything

Does the psychoshot invert every investigative result or just on the person using it?

[Hydrad]

I'm the cop.

SS night 1 was scum. As you can see by day 2 I hardcore tunneled SS.

TA night 2 was town as there was a post I said on day 3 where I said he was really towny.

IG night 3 no result

Okay, so, there is no way in this setup for a cop to receive guilty on a town, right? the psychotrooper only works on yourself.

That means Hydrad is lying because he's desperate, and IG is the alignment cop.

Pysco makes it so that they use it that night and all my results end up backwards

[Ichimaru Gin]

So, you used all of your shots. Which means you're just an IC now, it doesn't matter if the cop enabler dies.

Exactly. So there's absolutely zero benefit in not claiming at this point--especially when I know for sure faust is scum.

PPE: 4

[silverspawn]

Pysco makes it so that they use it that night and all my results end up backwards

if that's true, it makes stuff even more complicated, because then no-one is 100% scum now.

[Teproc]

wait psyco isn't that just that night everything is wrong? I don't think they need to target anything

Does the psychoshot invert every investigative result or just on the person using it?

Using psychotrooper makes the Cop act as Insane, ie every result is reversed.

[silverspawn]

And correction, faust has of course claimed tracker. Which, if faust is scum, means there is most likely no tracker in the game.

[silverspawn]

wait psyco isn't that just that night everything is wrong? I don't think they need to target anything

Does the psychoshot invert every investigative result or just on the person using it?

Using psychotrooper makes the Cop act as Insane, ie every result is reversed.

I didn't know that! I always thought it was just on yourself.

So, that changes everything...

[Hydrad]

I think it might be faust/IG/XP.

SS really sounds towny and I don't think he was faking not knowing pysco.

Egork is IC. Seprix feels town.

I think the game is going to be decided on who's cop you guys listen too.

[silverspawn]

Sigh, okay. Let's look at the Cop Claims again

Hydrad:
Night 1: silverspawn
Night 2: TwistedArcher
Night 3: IchimaruGin (no result)

IchimaruGin:
Night 1: Joseph
Night 2: TwistedArcher (no result)
Night 3: faust

[Ichimaru Gin]

Not really. Hydrad and faust are still confirmed scum.

PPE: Yeah. Of course. If you are successful in mislynching me, you win the game. That's not going to happen though.

[silverspawn]

So, one thing which is certain is that scum used Psychotrooper Night 1. aside from that, if...

... Hydrad is telling the truth, IG is scum
... IG is telling the truth, Hydrad and faust are scum

[silverspawn]

Okay, so both of you should explain your targets please.

[Hydrad]

Okay, so both of you should explain your targets please.

I targetted you because your hard to read and I thought getting info on you would be good.

night 2 I targetted TA because I wanted someone who was likely to survive till day 3. He almost made it.

Night 3 I targetted IG because it felt like he would live through the night.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Joseph was obvious. I already thought he was super-scum based on his play--but then it seemed like a lot of people disagreed with me. I didn't have many other scumreads besides him at that point so felt another target would have been much more of a shot in the dark. Plus, I expected scum to use the Psychotrooper early.

TA. He was lurking and I am not really familiar with his playstyle at all.

faust. The way he acted towards the end of D3 gave me a really, really bad feeling about him--moreso than XP even.

[Hydrad]

IG you have way to much fun coming up with fake claim plans. Was this your idea or your teams idea?

[Ichimaru Gin]

IG you have way to much fun coming up with fake claim plans. Was this your idea or your teams idea?

Nice try scum. I'm not going to engage with you though.

[Hydrad]

Vote: Hydrad

?? if Hydrad is lying it means IG is not lying and you are scum. explain this vote please

I think this is huge.

We know faust is scum here. Why would he not go for IG?

would the team say that I should fake claim cop and then get jumped on intantly?

This feels like faust saw how close I was to being lynched and jumped on me for a fast win.

[Ichimaru Gin]

How do you oh town alignment cop know faust is scum?

Cause he's your partner. Yep.

[Hydrad]

How do you oh town alignment cop know faust is scum?

Cause he's your partner. Yep.

Through POE. and also the fact that if he was town he would of voted you since you lied about his role. Why would he go after me in that situation.

[Ichimaru Gin]

That is weird though. Whatever. You're using faust's vote on you to support your fakeclaim though, so it was probably planned ahead of time.

And it doesn't matter cause after you mislynch me you win the game.

[Hydrad]

IG did you give any hints while playing that you were the cop?

[Ichimaru Gin]

IG did you give any hints while playing that you were the cop?

Wow. Why would I? So you could nightkill me?

I've never hinted as a PR--and probably never will.

Plus you know your partner faust "hinted" at being a Tracker and that was obviously BS.

[silverspawn]

well, these are both pretty believable. I definitely need input from Egork here.

One of the things this means is that we should look at faust's claim again.

What does scum!faust know about chair's role? he knows that he's not a doctor or watcher or tracker. That leaves VT, Universal backup (= watcher), alignment cop, and possibly roleblocker.

This is what chairs said:

I'm not claiming.

So, scum!faust had to suspect that chairs was probably a PR, or at least that there was a reasonable chance. If he was, then he had to further expect him to counter claim, which would have proven that one of them is lying and scum. That's still a decent narrative. and, his play also makes sense for town.

so my conclusion for now is no conclusion. PPE 8

[silverspawn]

This feels like faust saw how close I was to being lynched and jumped on me for a fast win.

it does indeed look that way.

So, if IG is the cop, faust is scum. Why would he vote for Hydrad here?

That is weird though. Whatever. You're using faust's vote on you to support your fakeclaim though, so it was probably planned ahead of time.

Do you really think so? This day has been so chaotic.

[silverspawn]

There is, however, a problem with this theory

First I was voting for Hydrad (1) (which may have been bad play.) Then XP sheeped my vote (2). Then faust voted without any explanation (3).

If IG is scum, why didn't he quickhammer? Was he just too slow? Did I unvote just in time?

[silverspawn]

In both cases though, I think this makes faust look really bad.

[Hydrad]

There is, however, a problem with this theory

First I was voting for Hydrad (1) (which may have been bad play.) Then XP sheeped my vote (2). Then faust voted without any explanation (3).

If IG is scum, why didn't he quickhammer? Was he just too slow? Did I unvote just in time?

Wow ya a couple minutes later and we would of lost.

I think another point to me is how fast my wagon appeared. would scum bus their partner super fast if I was supposed to fake cop claim? That sounds like the worst idea ever.

[silverspawn]

Hydrad was on L-1 from 06:50:39 to 06:55:31

that's 5 minutes. If IG is scum, he really messed up there.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Honestly. My internet has been acting up, and it decided to hang for like 5 minutes a little while back. I would have hammered Hydrad at that point if it hadn't because I am 100% sure he is scum.
So that's a null tell.

PPE: 2

[silverspawn]

Honestly. My internet has been acting up, and it decided to hang for like 5 minutes a little while back. I would have hammered Hydrad at that point if it hadn't because I am 100% sure he is scum.
So that's a null tell.

PPE: 2

good point, you would have hammered him as town.

... wait, you're making an argument against your case.

[silverspawn]

Another thought - we know there is an alignment cop in this game. So voting before he claims is really bad. I didn't think about that, but I'm having a hard time believing that faust and XP didn't either... yeah, faust's vote really makes no sense if he's town.

back at your claims... they're both really logical targets. Honestly, the only target I don't like there is TA, because I don't think he was that scummy (and a guilty result > an innocent result). Needless to say, both of you claim to have targeted him N2, so it doesn't matter.

[silverspawn]

Difficult stuff. I think this warrants a big reread and a closer look at interactions. Right now I'm almost 50%/50%

and I'm tired. we have lots of time to solve this. Obviously, no-one should vote.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I agree. That being said, I wonder where everyone else is?
I'll have to leave in a little bit but will be back in like 4 hours.

[Seprix]

Back from work! And wow, lots to read. Based on what I read, we lynch Hydrad or Faust. I like the Hydrad lynch.

[Hydrad]

Back from work! And wow, lots to read. Based on what I read, we lynch Hydrad or Faust. I like the Hydrad lynch.

You should read again.

The lynch should either be IG/Me as we are both claiming cops.

Also we could lynch faust as hes pretty much guaranteed to be scum but then we still have to decide between me  and IG next day.

This game is pretty much going to be decided if you pick correctly between me and IG.

[silverspawn]

not quite. even if we pick right and faust is scum, that still leaves #3. We need to make the right choice, and then make the right choice again.

[Hydrad]

not quite. even if we pick right and faust is scum, that still leaves #3. We need to make the right choice, and then make the right choice again.

True. I'm about 70% sure its XP though as you seem really towny and could have won the game if you and IG team up so I know your town. So that just leaves me with XP vs seprix.  and XP seems much scummier I think.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Hydrad is at L-1 Hammer him!

[Hydrad]

Ya so Seprix is town also if hes not hammering.

Unless hes scum and this is IG trying to get seprix to notice that i'm L-1?

[silverspawn]

well, scum just needs one more person to quickhammer. So, if you're town and XP is town, scum can quickhammer and we can't do anything about it. If that's the case, XP needs to unvote ASAP before Seprix comes online.

[silverspawn]

I can't believe I forgot about quickhammers when the day started...

[Ichimaru Gin]

Uh. No. Hydrad is scum and needs to be lynched period.

[silverspawn]

If you're town, this also means that either XP screwed up (like me) or the scum team is IG, XP & faust

[silverspawn]

Uh. No. Hydrad is scum and needs to be lynched period.

well, it certainly looks like it, because that narrative doesn't require Seprix to not realize that he can quickhammer.

[silverspawn]

This isn't a clean way to win though, because then I more or less just guessed right.

[silverspawn]

And now I really want to go to sleep. XP unvote when you read this.

[XerxesPraelor]

unvote

[Ichimaru Gin]

Something else to consider is that scum is absolutely the one to claim second here. They are absolutely going to wait it out and see what the my results are before possibly counterclaiming. They knew that I was going to claim today and have some results--if they didn't manage to kill me last night. But what if none of my results were terribly helpful? I doubt they would have counterclaimed then. They wouldn't risk fakeclaiming if my results or lack thereof could lead to an easy mislynch for them.

In this case though, I caught one of them. And they're doing everything they can to create chaos so that I might get mislynched and then they'll win.

Please. Please consider that and lynch Hydrad--and then faust tomorrow. I don't know that I can handle a repeat of Musical Mafia. Here though, I'm a PR. I have a 100% solid result and I'll be damned if I'm not going to fight to get scum lynched as hard as I possibly can.

[Hydrad]

of course you beat me. you posted your claim 30 minutes after the day started. I didn't have the game open when you did that.

[Hydrad]

unvote

Yessss we have a chance!

[Ichimaru Gin]

of course you beat me. you posted your claim 30 minutes after the day started. I didn't have the game open when you did that.

This isn't a question of availability. I'm saying that regardless of when you were here, you would have waited for me to claim first before considering your counterclaim.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Back from work! And wow, lots to read. Based on what I read, we lynch Hydrad or Faust. I like the Hydrad lynch.

You should read again.

The lynch should either be IG/Me as we are both claiming cops.

Also we could lynch faust as hes pretty much guaranteed to be scum but then we still have to decide between me  and IG next day.

This game is pretty much going to be decided if you pick correctly between me and IG.

This is pretty damning right here. I wish I was a dayvig. Seriously though, why are you acting as if you and I are the only choices? If the day goes on and town isn't able to discern well enough that I'm the real cop, then we absolutely lynch faust.

You're framing this in such a way that it gives you better odds of killing me--instead of you or faust. Of course you don't want us to lynch faust today because then my results on faust will be confirmed, your partner will die, and we'll lynch you tomorrow.

And you're hoping that people will go along with you and mislynch me today so that you can win.

[Hydrad]

Back from work! And wow, lots to read. Based on what I read, we lynch Hydrad or Faust. I like the Hydrad lynch.

You should read again.

The lynch should either be IG/Me as we are both claiming cops.

Also we could lynch faust as hes pretty much guaranteed to be scum but then we still have to decide between me  and IG next day.

This game is pretty much going to be decided if you pick correctly between me and IG.

This is pretty damning right here. I wish I was a dayvig. Seriously though, why are you acting as if you and I are the only choices? If the day goes on and town isn't able to discern well enough that I'm the real cop, then we absolutely lynch faust.

You're framing this in such a way that it gives you better odds of killing me--instead of you or faust. Of course you don't want us to lynch faust today because then my results on faust will be confirmed, your partner will die, and we'll lynch you tomorrow.

And you're hoping that people will go along with you and mislynch me today so that you can win.

I'm fine with lynching faust. Its just that we will have to make the decision of me vs you anyways.

[Seprix]

I didn't hammer Hydrad. I do think he's guilty, but I second-guessed myself. If it turns out he's scum and we vote for a town lynch instead, I'll go hang myself too.

[Seprix]

Basically, I want more time before I vote. Time helps Town after all.

[Hydrad]

Ok so making sense time.

I'm going to say Faust is 100% scum right now as if you believe IG is town hes scum. And if you think I'm town I'm saying hes scum.

So either way lets just pretty much pretend faust is confirmed scum.

Now you are faust and you see two cop claims. Who do you go for?

Option one. You kill your partner. You have given town a IC and are still going to die next day and now its a bunch of IC's vs your last member.

Option two. You go for the mislynch. You win flat out and it doesn't matter how scummy you look as your team set you up to be guaranteed scum anyways.

One of these makes much more sense then the other.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I don't care who faust voted. Plus you know, he voted you before your claim--and didn't say anything else. You are scum, you do not have to worry about getting quickhammered (except by me). Your partner can vote you and mess with everyone's heads so you can make exactly this sort of argument. I have no idea if this was pre-planned or if you came up with it on the fly, but this is absolutely what you are trying to do here.

Honestly. I'm not interested in whatever explanation faust has for his vote, or whatever you're trying to say his vote means. I'm the cop--and it's time for you to give up. I have no way of knowing exactly what faust was trying to do there--all I know is that both of you are scum and his vote actively helps your fakeclaim. You don't care about either of you looking scummy. You are just trying as hard as possible to get me mislynched right now so you can win. And of course you want to lynch me today and not your partner.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Well. I'm going to sleep. I expect I'll be alive when I wake up in the morning. I can't believe how hard it is to convince people of the truth. I have hope that it will win out in the end though.

[Hydrad]

It feels like you're trying to guilt them into picking you.

[Teproc]

Vote Count 4.3

Hydrad (2): faust, Ichimaru Gin
Ichimaru Gin (1): Hydrad

Not Voting (4): Egork, Seprix, silverspawn, XerxesPraelor

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. 

Day 4 ends at 06:00 p.m. on March 12, 2015.

[EgorK]

Guys, why not lynch faust here and sleep on it? He is scum in all scenarios

[Seprix]

I think Egork is right. I liked Hydrad, but then I didn't read all the logic going on. Yeah, makes sense to me to lynch Faust here.

vote: Faust

[silverspawn]

we can sleep on it without lynching faust first. if we lynch faust, one of us probably dies next night.

[Seprix]

we can sleep on it without lynching faust first. if we lynch faust, one of us probably dies next night.

One of us is going to die regardless of which scum we lynch.

[silverspawn]

right, but it makes sense to do the difficult decision while more people are alive.

a NK isn't going to help PoE, it's just going to be EgorK or me.

[Seprix]

right, but it makes sense to do the difficult decision while more people are alive.

a NK isn't going to help PoE, it's just going to be EgorK or me.

You or Xerxes, maybe even meI would imagine, assuming he's the Doctor. I'm going to evaluate everyone later today, and I suggest you do the same. We need to think while we are all still alive.

[Seprix]

right, but it makes sense to do the difficult decision while more people are alive.

a NK isn't going to help PoE, it's just going to be EgorK or me.

You, me, or Xerxes,I would imagine, assuming he's the Doctor. I'm going to evaluate everyone later today, and I suggest you do the same. We need to think while we are all still alive.

Fixed my post.

[Hydrad]

Ok more info on my thought process through this game.

As you can see day 2 and 3 I went on SS hard because I thought I had a scum result on him.

That lasted until partly into day 3.

This post.

yay TA's back.

if we can't SS. I think I like XP actually.

Vote: XP

Was just after SS had done all his reads and stuff and I was getting a townish vibe and felt something was off. I went to reread the setup here and realized there was a psycho shot I had forgotten about.

If you notice after this post I really don't do anything for the rest of the day as I realized I had been so wrong and didn't know where to go from there so I tried to just lurk till day 3 to get 3 results. I lurked here because I didn't feel comfertable about pushing SS anymore and the fact that I didn't know how to switch off him without seeming super scummy.

[Ichimaru Gin]

This is just ludicrous saying that you didn't "know" about the psycho shot until D3. If you were really the cop, you would have paid more attention to the setup--as the psychotrooper shot isn't even a variable component of the scumteam--it's always present. Plus, it's arguably one of the most important things you should be thinking about as the cop when targetting people and analyzing your results.

Can we please just end this people? Hydrad is obviously lying.

[Ichimaru Gin]

It's actually worse even. You said you "forgot about" the psychotrooper shot--as the alignment cop. That is like not possible.

[Hydrad]

It's actually worse even. You said you "forgot about" the psychotrooper shot--as the alignment cop. That is like not possible.

Well it actually is possible as I just did it.

[Ichimaru Gin]

It's actually worse even. You said you "forgot about" the psychotrooper shot--as the alignment cop. That is like not possible.

Well it actually is possible as I just did it.

I can't believe this.

People reread, do whatever you need to do. I have to go to class soon and won't be back for like 6 hours. It's fine to take some time to let people figure this out, but let's not have things drag out to the deadline either.

[Hydrad]

Whoa wait. If I got no result N3 that means there has to be a roleblocker in this game right? Is there any other way to have a no result appear right now?

If thats true that means XP is the doctor?

So its IG/faust/Seprix?

Am I missing something here or do we just win if you pick correctly?

[Hydrad]

Hydrad is at L-1 Hammer him!

If that is correct this makes way more sense now.

Why would IG post that normally? It looks like he posted it because seprix posted and didn't hammer so he had to remind him.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Because you are lying scum and need to die without being given a chance. That's why.

[silverspawn]

Whoa wait. If I got no result N3 that means there has to be a roleblocker in this game right? Is there any other way to have a no result appear right now?

If thats true that means XP is the doctor?

So its IG/faust/Seprix?

Am I missing something here or do we just win if you pick correctly?

no result doesn't mean there's a roleblocker, because there is a roelstopper by default, which can also lead to no result

[Hydrad]

Whoa wait. If I got no result N3 that means there has to be a roleblocker in this game right? Is there any other way to have a no result appear right now?

If thats true that means XP is the doctor?

So its IG/faust/Seprix?

Am I missing something here or do we just win if you pick correctly?

no result doesn't mean there's a roleblocker, because there is a roelstopper by default, which can also lead to no result

ah right. Thats dissapointing.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Unfortunately. It seems like everyone just wants to be all hedgy on your wagon though.


It's probably not fair for me to expect the truth to be self-evident in this case. But damn if this isn't frustrating.


@SS I do not for a second believe he didn't already know that.

[Hydrad]

Also looking at previous games IG seems to be pretty willing to fake claim as scum. Like RMM1 was a recent one and I feel like I remember at least one other time.

I don't think I have fakeclaimed in any games before. So theres that also.

[Hydrad]

I'm not sure how it looks from your guys side though but to me it looks like I'm trying to prove that I'm the cop and all IG is doing is trying to say my points aren't valid. It doesn't seem like hes doing much to help his case hes just trying to hurt mine.

[Ichimaru Gin]

WIFOM man.

"You haven't fakeclaimed much before Hydrad, they'll never suspect it from you!"

You're trying to "prove" you're the cop by trying to incriminate me, so no. I don't feel like I have much to prove anyway--I expect that people will see it just from the way I've played the game.

[silverspawn]

@SS I do not for a second believe he didn't already know that.

I agree that it's suspicious

[Seprix]

So either IG or Hydrad is scum here. Pretty sure Faust is scum at least. Can't we lynch Faust first?

[silverspawn]

of course we can, but what does that do. we just delay the difficult choice.

[Seprix]

of course we can, but what does that do. we just delay the difficult choice.

Yeah, but Faust might have a pivotal role that makes it harder for scum to win. XP might be able to save someone and not get rolestopped.

[silverspawn]

okay, let's lynch faust. if we are wrong about him, it's better to end this now anyway

vote: faust

[Seprix]

vote: faust

[Ichimaru Gin]

vote: faust

We absolutely lynch Hydrad tomorrow. People should reread during the night.

[Hydrad]

I'm worried about this as if seprix is town he doesn't seem to be considering IG much at all. I would rather have us make the decision today I guess.

[Hydrad]

whatever. I think my case vs IG is much better so hopefully that will work out.

Vote: faust

[Hydrad]

And I was all excited to become a IC today. IG you ruined everything.

[Ichimaru Gin]

And I'm trying to guilt people into not voting me?
wow.

[Hydrad]

And I'm trying to guilt people into not voting me?
wow.

Its revenge now!

[Ichimaru Gin]

I'd  call it hypocrisy, but whatever. I can tell you want a crazy reaction out of me, but it's not going to happen.

phone post.

[Hydrad]

I'd  call it hypocrisy, but whatever. I can tell you want a crazy reaction out of me, but it's not going to happen.

phone post.

it might be a bit of hypocrisy.

I don't really want a reaction though. I'm just bored and talking pretty much

[Seprix]

I'd  call it hypocrisy, but whatever. I can tell you want a crazy reaction out of me, but it's not going to happen.

phone post.

it might be a bit of hypocrisy.

I don't really want a reaction though. I'm just bored and talking pretty much

seriously? Can we not? We need to have a game plan for tomorrow. IG and you are both on my list, that whole "L-1 hammer now" thing has puzzled me and I'm not entirely sure what to think of it. I think SS and Egork are about the only 100% townie group right now, but we will see.

[Teproc]

Day 4 Final Vote Count

faust (4): Seprix, silverspawn, Ichimaru Gin, Hydrad

Hydrad (1): faust
Not Voting (2): Egork, XerxesPraelor

With 7 alive, it took 4 to lynch. 

faust has been lynched. He was the Mafia Boss.

Night 4 will last 48 hours. every player is required to check in with the mod via PM or QT.

[Teproc]

I'm changing the night to 24 hours only, given the small player pool left. If anyone has a problem with that, PM/QT me about it and I'll change it back.

[Teproc]

No one died.

Day 5 begins !

[Teproc]

Vote Count 5.0


Not Voting (6): Egork, XerxesPraelor, Seprix, silverspawn, Ichimaru Gin, Hydrad

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. 

Day 5 ends at 06:00 p.m. on March 13, 2015.

[Hydrad]

Oh? thats good news.

now is it doctor XP actually saving someone? or scum XP going for a backup plan incase IG gets lynched.

[Seprix]

WOW. Well Silverspawn, that 0.001% chance of lynching Faust first managed to work! No kill! That or Mafia didn't lynch, though I don't see why they would do that.

 So is it till MyLo or is it back to two shots now?

[Seprix]

Oh? thats good news.

now is it doctor XP actually saving someone? or scum XP going for a backup plan incase IG gets lynched.

Scum XP backup plan seems a bit of a stretch, but I guess it's possible.

[Hydrad]

WOW. Well Silverspawn, that 0.001% chance of lynching Faust first managed to work! No kill! That or Mafia didn't lynch, though I don't see why they would do that.

 So is it till MyLo or is it back to two shots now?

Still mylo.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Well, that's interesting. I don't really care about guessing the third partner right now though.

The fact that Hydrad is putting suspicion on XP make me more inclined to believe that he's really the doc, but Hydrad could also be doing it for WIFOM.

[Seprix]

WOW. Well Silverspawn, that 0.001% chance of lynching Faust first managed to work! No kill! That or Mafia didn't lynch, though I don't see why they would do that.

 So is it till MyLo or is it back to two shots now?

Still mylo.

So in a way, the Mafia kill being blocked is bad. That means more suspects. That makes me wonder.. Do you think Mafia didn't kill on purpose? I suppose we could ask XP about who he Doctored.

[Hydrad]

WOW. Well Silverspawn, that 0.001% chance of lynching Faust first managed to work! No kill! That or Mafia didn't lynch, though I don't see why they would do that.

 So is it till MyLo or is it back to two shots now?

Still mylo.

So in a way, the Mafia kill being blocked is bad. That means more suspects. That makes me wonder.. Do you think Mafia didn't kill on purpose? I suppose we could ask XP about who he Doctored.

ya it can happen a bunch in games. Usually when its down to 4 people mafia won't kill because it just makes it easier for town to figure it out.

[Ichimaru Gin]

So why aren't you voting me Hydrad? Are you holding off for a chance at a quickhammer?

[Hydrad]

So why aren't you voting me Hydrad? Are you holding off for a chance at a quickhammer?

Oh thanks for reminding me

Vote: IG

[Seprix]

I'm not voting until I know who I want to lynch. Either IG or Hydrad ATM. We need SS and Egork and XP to be present for that, so we wait. Bicker if you'd like.

[Ichimaru Gin]

So why aren't you voting me Hydrad? Are you holding off for a chance at a quickhammer?

Oh thanks for reminding me

Vote: IG

Like you forgot.
vote: Hydrad

[Hydrad]

So why aren't you voting me Hydrad? Are you holding off for a chance at a quickhammer?

Oh thanks for reminding me

Vote: IG

Like you forgot.
vote: Hydrad

Why are you being so mean to me! I thought we were friends!

[Ichimaru Gin]

It's nothing personal; it's just that you're scum this time around. I apologize if you think I've been overly harsh--it wasn't my intention. And yes, we were best buds in Dune 2, and it was awesome.

[XerxesPraelor]

I doctored silverspawn. Apparently it worked.

[Seprix]

I doctored silverspawn. Apparently it worked.

Or Mafia didn't kill.

[silverspawn]

happy fifth day!

so, I've been thinking about what a kill/no-kill means during the night, and my results were

-> there is a good chance that we won't have a nightkill
-> no nightkill points towards XP being scum

I feel like scum!XP!team would most likely not kill anyone here/attempt to kill the IC, to a) don't help town with PoE and b) give XP town cred.

Obviously, this is a WIFOM argument, and there is always the chance that town!XP genuinely stopped the kill, but it does make me feel worse about him.

Still, XP, whom did you protect tonight? PPE: nvm

[silverspawn]

in case you are town: I think protecting me was a good choice, and sorry for suspecting you unfairly

[Seprix]

Wait a second. Here's an idea. Maybe XP is scum. That would be a pretty smart play, not nightkilling and then claiming a block.

[XerxesPraelor]

Must either IG or Hydrad be scum?

[silverspawn]

Must either IG or Hydrad be scum?

yeah, for sure. town has no reason to fakeclaim cop

[XerxesPraelor]

Wait a second. Here's an idea. Maybe XP is scum. That would be a pretty smart play, not nightkilling and then claiming a block.

The one time I guess right, it makes people think I'm scummy. Maybe I should just pick randomly all the time

/joking

PPE: Then lets pick between them first.

[Hydrad]

Wait a second. Here's an idea. Maybe XP is scum. That would be a pretty smart play, not nightkilling and then claiming a block.

That was my original point

[Hydrad]

Oh? thats good news.

now is it doctor XP actually saving someone? or scum XP going for a backup plan incase IG gets lynched.

[Seprix]

Hydrad or IG...

I feel like we don't have to choose blindly. I think there's a higher probability play here.

[Seprix]

Oh? thats good news.

now is it doctor XP actually saving someone? or scum XP going for a backup plan incase IG gets lynched.

Yes, it was. But perhaps IG isn't scum. Maybe you are. You and XP.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Choose blindly? What you mean like randomly?

Seriously. It's obvious I'm the real cop and Hydrad counterclaimed me. Look back at my posts from yesterday where I talk about it.

PPE: 1

[Teproc]

Vote Count 5.1

Ichimaru Gin (1): Hydrad
Hydrad (1): Ichimaru Gin

Not Voting (4): Egork, XerxesPraelor, Seprix, silverspawn

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. 

Day 5 ends at 06:00 p.m. on March 13, 2015.

[XerxesPraelor]

Oh? thats good news.

now is it doctor XP actually saving someone? or scum XP going for a backup plan incase IG gets lynched.

Yes, it was. But perhaps IG isn't scum. Maybe you are. You and XP.

You are tunneling me.

[silverspawn]

Choose blindly? What you mean like randomly?

Seriously. It's obvious I'm the real cop and Hydrad counterclaimed me. Look back at my posts from yesterday where I talk about it.

PPE: 1

I'm leaning towards it, but I don't think it's "obvious" by any stretch. why is it obvious?

If Hydrad is scum, he played this really well with tunneling me during day 1 and then claiming a scum result on me.

@XP: well, again, if you're town, it was really good play, and I'm glad to be alive. But yeah, we're not lynching you today anyway.

[Hydrad]

Ok I'm just going to list my points again.

Point 1- You can see on day 2 I targeted SS heavily and on day 3 I hinted towards TA being a strong town read.

Point 2- You can see the moment I realize pyscho shot was in this game and my gameplay kinda changed. This one is hard for you to know if its true or not though.

Point 3- Faust who was scum just voted me and nothing more. In a cop vs fake cop situation I'm pretty sure scum is going to go for the mislynch in a mylo situation. In fact there were so close to getting it! IG had the chance and missed it by 5 minutes. If I fake claimed cop do you think my partners would jump on me like that? What would the point of fakeclaiming be if my team just instantly lynched me.

Point 4- IG's biggest reason that he says he is a cop is because he claimed before me. When I didn't even have a chance to claim before him.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Well. It's obvious to me at least. I've always felt town!me was very apparent, but after MM I'm a little less sure of that.

PPE: 1

[XerxesPraelor]

Hydrad is being convincing. Would IG care to do something similar or an offensive case on Hydrad?

[Seprix]

Oh? thats good news.

now is it doctor XP actually saving someone? or scum XP going for a backup plan incase IG gets lynched.

Yes, it was. But perhaps IG isn't scum. Maybe you are. You and XP.

You are tunneling me.

Not quite. Right now you're flavor of the hour, perhaps next hour I'll think about SS. I'm trying to make it all make sense.

[Seprix]

I want to hear your side here IG.

[Ichimaru Gin]

My response is coming.

[Hydrad]

Oh? thats good news.

now is it doctor XP actually saving someone? or scum XP going for a backup plan incase IG gets lynched.

Yes, it was. But perhaps IG isn't scum. Maybe you are. You and XP.

You are tunneling me.

Not quite. Right now you're flavor of the hour, perhaps next hour I'll think about SS. I'm trying to make it all make sense.

Its like 95% not SS.

Unless hes trolling us it really can't be him. If he was scum he had many times to win by killing me.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Ok I'm just going to list my points again.

Point 1- You can see on day 2 I targeted SS heavily and on day 3 I hinted towards TA being a strong town read.

Point 2- You can see the moment I realize pyscho shot was in this game and my gameplay kinda changed. This one is hard for you to know if its true or not though.

Point 3- Faust who was scum just voted me and nothing more. In a cop vs fake cop situation I'm pretty sure scum is going to go for the mislynch in a mylo situation. In fact there were so close to getting it! IG had the chance and missed it by 5 minutes. If I fake claimed cop do you think my partners would jump on me like that? What would the point of fakeclaiming be if my team just instantly lynched me.

Point 4- IG's biggest reason that he says he is a cop is because he claimed before me. When I didn't even have a chance to claim before him.

1. Scum knew exactly what PR's town had. You could have easily planned that ahead of time--or simply tweaked your fakeclaim to reflect your behavior on earlier days (I actually see the latter as more likely).

2. This point hurts you. I'll repeat that the real cop absolutely pays attention to the setup and knows about the psychotrooper becuase they are always a part of the setup and affect your results. Furthermore your phrasing as haven "forgotten" about the psychotrooper is just nonsensical. Now I feel like you're including it and trying to build it into your fake argument because you know it can't be ignored now.

3. Faust didn't post once either before or after voting you--so I have no idea what he was thinking. It could have been a miscommunication or mistake on scum's part. Or some crazy gambit. This is your biggest weapon against me, so I don't know if it was planned, or you're simply using the mistake to your advantage.

4. I don't really classify any of my reasonings as "biggest". My argument is simply that scum always waits for the real cop to claim before counterclaiming. I could have easily had no useful results and you and your team could have pushed another mislynch. Regardless of whether you were there before or after me, you would have waited for me to claim first before fakeclaiming. Likewise, if I was scum, I would have waited to counterclaim you regardless of which of us showed up first.

PPE: 2

[Ichimaru Gin]

Hydrad is being convincing. Would IG care to do something similar or an offensive case on Hydrad?

I can easily see XP as the last partner.

[Hydrad]

Ok on your point 4 thats one thing I don't get.

In this game what cop is not going to claim on day 4. There is really no reason to wait until longer with this setup as if you get nightkilled or something you were usless. With this in mind there is really no reason to wait until the cop claims if scum was thinking of claiming.

[XerxesPraelor]

Do we know there's another partner. It could just be IG.

[Seprix]

Yeah, I think SS is town. But it IS the endgame here. I'd be a fool not to consider everyone besides Egork.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Ok on your point 4 thats one thing I don't get.

In this game what cop is not going to claim on day 4. There is really no reason to wait until longer with this setup as if you get nightkilled or something you were usless. With this in mind there is really no reason to wait until the cop claims if scum was thinking of claiming.

What?

Yes. Scum knew I was going to claim D4. So if they're going to counterclaim the cop, that's the day to do it. However, it isn't necessary to counterclaim me if my results are useless. At the very least, they have a rolestopper, plus the likelihood that at least some of my results are on people who have died. So I don't really get what you're trying to say here. Scum is always going to claim second--because there is absolutely no reason for them to counterclaim me if my results don't incriminate them.

PPE: This is just crazy. Yes we know there's 3 scum; it's in the OP. These attacks on me are reaching a laughable point.

[Hydrad]

Do we know there's another partner. It could just be IG.

I'm pretty sure this setup has 3 scum gauranteed

[Hydrad]

Yeah, I think SS is town. But it IS the endgame here. I'd be a fool not to consider everyone besides Egork.

The only way it can be SS logically I think is if IG is town I guess. In that way SS didn't hammer me because he might be my partner.

But once you pick who to lynch and if you pick correctly and see that I'm town SS should pretty much be considered a IC.

[silverspawn]

Point 3- Faust who was scum just voted me and nothing more. In a cop vs fake cop situation I'm pretty sure scum is going to go for the mislynch in a mylo situation. In fact there were so close to getting it! IG had the chance and missed it by 5 minutes. If I fake claimed cop do you think my partners would jump on me like that? What would the point of fakeclaiming be if my team just instantly lynched me.

yeah, I do think that's one of the most important things that happened.

So, I'll try to look into it... probably going to retell some stuff that everyone already knows.

faust attempted to quicklynch you here. So, let's assume you are...

1. Town:
The scum team is faust & IG & ???

Playerlist (bold means was on the wagon):

XerxesPraelor
faust
Ichimaru Gin
Hydrad
Egork
Seprix
silverspawn


Timeline:
06:09:50 - I voted for Hydrad
06:14:55 - XP voted for Hydrad
06:50:39 - faust put Hydrad at L-1
06:55:31 - I unvote Hydrad
06:58:58 - IG comes back. his comment doesn't indicate disappointment about the failed quickhammer
08:46:39 - Seprix comes back

So, this is what this means:
At LyLo, it takes all scum + one town to quickhammer someone. I was the town. faust + IG were two of the scum, and XP either was the third scum or he was a second town; it doesn't matter because Seprix wasn't around. In both cases, faust put Hydrad at L-1 and hoped for IG to quickhammer, but IG couldn't because his internet died.


2. Scum:

Playerlist:

XerxesPraelor
faust
Ichimaru Gin
Hydrad
Egork
Seprix
silverspawn

Note that, IG was going to hammer Hydrad even in this scenario, he said so himself. So, what that means is, faust put his partner at L-1, in order to either give him towncred, or have IG hammer him and cut the day short. Which wouldn't be a big deal though, so basically he just did it for towncred.

Meh, that's not really anything we didn't already know. I was hoping that looking at it thoroughly would lead to some kind of result, but it doesn't even tell us anything about XP, he can be town and scum in both scenarios. Basically, the question is just, did faust attempt to quicklynch or to make us think Hydrad is town.

Well, the quicklynch narrative is really good. I think I'm leaning towards town!Hydrad now. Although that of course just proves that the narrative for a faust/Hydrad team is also good.

[Hydrad]

This is faust can't even do it for town cred. If IG is town then his results mean faust is scum.

[Hydrad]

Thing is faust can't even do it for town cred. If IG is town then his results mean faust is scum.

Thing is*

[Hydrad]

Oh wait. were you saying he did it as me having town cred?

That seems so extremely risky as if IG hammered there then the point of me "fake claiming cop" would of just don't nothing.

[silverspawn]

2. This point hurts you. I'll repeat that the real cop absolutely pays attention to the setup and knows about the psychotrooper becuase they are always a part of the setup and affect your results. Furthermore your phrasing as haven "forgotten" about the psychotrooper is just nonsensical. Now I feel like you're including it and trying to build it into your fake argument because you know it can't be ignored now.

urg, this is actually a really good point

[silverspawn]

Oh wait. were you saying he did it as me having town cred?

yeah

That seems so extremely risky as if IG hammered there then the point of me "fake claiming cop" would of just don't nothing.

*would just have done

but... yes, I didn't even think of that, but if IG hammered you then giving you town cred doesn't do anything. duh.

[silverspawn]

actually, this makes the faust/Hydrad narrative crumble.

[Ichimaru Gin]

actually, this makes the faust/Hydrad narrative crumble.

Which is exactly what faust wanted.

[silverspawn]

this game is so confusing, I was doing all of that reiterating and missed the most obvious thing.

So, in order for to construct a narrative for the faust/Hydrad team, faust must have had to ...

-> vote for his partner in order to get towncred for himself; or
-> vote for his partner expecting/hoping that I was going to unvote before IG could hammer him in order to get towncred for him

#1 makes no sense because faust didn't fight for his survival at all, and #2 is just super risky.

[Ichimaru Gin]

It's also possible he just messed up. Perhaps not as likely as the other two, but it's still a possibility.

[silverspawn]

actually, this makes the faust/Hydrad narrative crumble.

Which is exactly what faust wanted.

right, so you're saying he predicted that your internet was going to be down? Or he just didn't expect you to hammer him?

PPE

It's also possible he just messed up. Perhaps not as likely as the other two, but it's still a possibility.

"messed up" how? You mean he forgot who his partner was?

[Ichimaru Gin]

I mean missed a post/miscounted votes/what-have you.

All I know is that faust's vote helps scum!Hydrad. They still have another partner--so it's not like that going south would cost them the game by any means. All they need is one mislynch along the way and then they win.

So even if we are successful in killing the faust/Hydrad component of the team--all it takes is for us to mess up on who the third partner is and then they win. This makes me think their third partner is in a solid position.

[Seprix]

I mean missed a post/miscounted votes/what-have you.

All I know is that faust's vote helps scum!Hydrad. They still have another partner--so it's not like that going south would cost them the game by any means. All they need is one mislynch along the way and then they win.

So even if we are successful in killing the faust/Hydrad component of the team--all it takes is for us to mess up on who the third partner is and then they win. This makes me think their third partner is in a solid position.

Okay, so if Hydrad is Scum, who is his partner? If IG is scum, who is his partner? Hydrad's psychotrooper thing looks bad, but so does IG's "QUICK HAMMER HIM" post.

[XerxesPraelor]

I think I'll

vote: IG

I can imagine missing the psychotrooper even as town.

[Seprix]

I think we start thinking about potential partners here, and then from there, it might be immediately obvious who we lynch.

[Seprix]

I think I'll

vote: IG

I can imagine missing the psychotrooper even as town.

This is dangerous, what if it's a mislynch!? Then Scum might hammer!!!! We have to think first!

[Ichimaru Gin]

It doesn't matter. They'll just abuse their scummy town metas to the max here and ask obvious questions. XP is definitely Hydrad's partner.

I'm going out for a few hours. I'll be back later.

[XerxesPraelor]

I'd vote you, but I want to give Hydrad the opportunity to hammer. If he doesn't, we have an IC. I'm pretty confident here.

[XerxesPraelor]

I think it's IG/seprix. I can imagine Seprix's response here as a newbie scum worried about their teammate.

[XerxesPraelor]

Then again EgorK is also a possibility - come and post, please!

[silverspawn]

I think we start thinking about potential partners here, and then from there, it might be immediately obvious who we lynch.

the partner thing is pretty straighforward. it's either you or XP.

[silverspawn]

I think I'll

vote: IG

I can imagine missing the psychotrooper even as town.

I'm not sure how this makes me feel about you -- but I was going to do the same.

The faust thing is just a too solid evidence for us to ignore it. This was faust trying to quickhammer Hydrad, and us being stupidly lucky with IG's internet being down.

vote: IG

well played though. your claim was solid.

[Seprix]

I think it's IG/seprix. I can imagine Seprix's response here as a newbie scum worried about their teammate.

You're scum. You have to be! You're putting your chips on the table now, and promoting your agenda. Now I still have to figure out whether Hydrad or IG is scum, but now I know you are.

vote: XP

[silverspawn]

I think it's IG/seprix. I can imagine Seprix's response here as a newbie scum worried about their teammate.

You're scum. You have to be! You're putting your chips on the table now, and promoting your agenda. Now I still have to figure out whether Hydrad or IG is scum, but now I know you are.

vote: XP

technically, you knew all along that he was scum just by PoE

[XerxesPraelor]

Why me? Why would I no-kill and then claim you as a target, especially knowing that you were suspicious of me? I mean, there's WIFOM, but there's always WIFOM.

PPE: OMGUS or what?

[Seprix]

I think I'll

vote: IG

I can imagine missing the psychotrooper even as town.

I'm not sure how this makes me feel about you -- but I was going to do the same.

The faust thing is just a too solid evidence for us to ignore it. This was faust trying to quickhammer Hydrad, and us being stupidly lucky with IG's internet being down.

vote: IG

well played though. your claim was solid.

the die is cast.

We've crossed the Rubicon.

Were we ready? I dunno.

Here's the nice bits.

If IG is town, we lose.

If he's scum, Hydrad is almost certainly town, which means scum has to be me, XP, or SS (not too likely).

[Seprix]

I think it's IG/seprix. I can imagine Seprix's response here as a newbie scum worried about their teammate.

You're scum. You have to be! You're putting your chips on the table now, and promoting your agenda. Now I still have to figure out whether Hydrad or IG is scum, but now I know you are.

vote: XP

technically, you knew all along that he was scum just by PoE

Well, yes, but it was between you and him honestly.

[XerxesPraelor]

I think it's IG/seprix. I can imagine Seprix's response here as a newbie scum worried about their teammate.

You're scum. You have to be! You're putting your chips on the table now, and promoting your agenda. Now I still have to figure out whether Hydrad or IG is scum, but now I know you are.

vote: XP

technically, you knew all along that he was scum just by PoE

Well, yes, but it was between you and him honestly.

I doctored him. I doubt scum would be that sure of whom I would protect to make an IC out of scum!silverspawn.

[silverspawn]

Or, you could have known if you did PoE.

Again, player list:

XerxesPraelor
faust
Ichimaru Gin
Hydrad
Egork
Seprix
silverspawn

this is it from your perspective, with r/g meaning one of them is scum. So, the only other possible candidate for third scum would be me, which is more or less impossible

PPE: yeah, okay, exactly.

[XerxesPraelor]

Here's the nice bits.

If IG is town, we win.

FTFY

[Seprix]

I think it's IG/seprix. I can imagine Seprix's response here as a newbie scum worried about their teammate.

You're scum. You have to be! You're putting your chips on the table now, and promoting your agenda. Now I still have to figure out whether Hydrad or IG is scum, but now I know you are.

vote: XP

technically, you knew all along that he was scum just by PoE

Well, yes, but it was between you and him honestly.

I doctored him. I doubt scum would be that sure of whom I would protect to make an IC out of scum!silverspawn.

Obviously, you could (as scum) not lynch at all and instead claim you protected whoever was 'going' to get lynched.

[Hydrad]

One good thing is if XP doctors someone correctly we have pretty much a 100% chance of winning

[silverspawn]

One good thing is if XP doctors someone correctly we have pretty much a 100% chance of winning

? why that

[Seprix]

Here's the nice bits.

If IG is town, we win.

FTFY

That's not even a good argument to lynch me over you.

[Hydrad]

One good thing is if XP doctors someone correctly we have pretty much a 100% chance of winning

? why that

Well your town unless your trolling. With xp protecting we can lynch xp and seprix

[silverspawn]

One good thing is if XP doctors someone correctly we have pretty much a 100% chance of winning

? why that

Well your town unless your trolling. With xp protecting we can lynch xp and seprix

you mean we have 2 shots?

wait...

XerxesPraelor
Ichimaru Gin
Hydrad
Egork
Seprix
silverspawn

that's 5 left... we (mis)lynch one -> 4 -> NK -> 3 -> you're right

yeah, so, XP, if you guess right tonight, you won the game for us.

assuming we just guessed correctly.

[Seprix]

One good thing is if XP doctors someone correctly we have pretty much a 100% chance of winning

? why that

Well your town unless your trolling. With xp protecting we can lynch xp and seprix

you mean we have 2 shots?

wait...

XerxesPraelor
Ichimaru Gin
Hydrad
Egork
Seprix
silverspawn

that's 5 left... we (mis)lynch one -> 4 -> NK -> 3 -> you're right

yeah, so, XP, if you guess right tonight, you won the game for us.

assuming we just guessed correctly.

Or assuming he's even the doctor.

[Hydrad]

Well I think we still need another vote on IG before this is over.

[Seprix]

vote: IG

Alright, I'll do it. If Hydrad is scum, he would have hammered by now anyways.

[Seprix]

vote: IG

Alright, I'll do it. If Hydrad is scum, he would have hammered by now anyways.

Wait, he voted for IG earlier. Nvm.

[silverspawn]

Well I think we still need another vote on IG before this is over.

yeah. seprix?

well, at least the fact that seprix didn't already hammer is good.

[silverspawn]

so... hydrad? IG is hammered. if you're scum, now is the time to celebrate your victory.

[silverspawn]

now, please tell me you're town? pretty please?

[Seprix]

If you were scum Hydrad, well played. gg

[Hydrad]

I'm town don't worry

[Seprix]

Wow.

[silverspawn]

I did worry. what do you expect.

but this is good. puh.

well, I guess there is still a chance that you just prolong to make things more painful...

[Seprix]

I'd say Hydrad is guaranteed town then. Which means we lynch XP tomorrow.

[silverspawn]

I'd say Hydrad is guaranteed town then. Which means we lynch XP tomorrow.

I'm much less sure of that

[Hydrad]

I was thinking of claiming scum to see reactions. But then I got scared of spectators coming in thinking it was over

[silverspawn]

I was thinking of claiming scum to see reactions. But then I got scared of spectators coming in thinking it was over

ohh, that would have been such good play.

I'm pretty sure there's no way a spectator posts before the mod has confirmed your flip.

[silverspawn]

I totally think you should've done that.

but it's no big deal. the important thing is that we guessed right.

what do you think of the Seprix vs XP thing?

[Seprix]

Tomorrow, I can show you all my innocence. Won't be hard.

[silverspawn]

Tomorrow, I can show you all my innocence. Won't be hard.

how are you going to do that?

By the way, since I could be dead tomorrow, I'm leaning towards XP for the last scum. Maybe 60%

[Hydrad]

I'm still not fully sure. XP felt like scum early on last day. But more recent septic has been giving me scum vibes.

I almost hope I get night killed so I don't have to make the decision

[Seprix]

My posts have been pretty pro town. XP has pretty much lurked until he claimed Doctor.

[XerxesPraelor]

Well at least the suspicion means I won't be NKd.

So from my perspective, Seprix is basically the only scum possible, right?

[XerxesPraelor]

Seprix's recent posts have been really scummy knowing IG and Faust's alignments.

[XerxesPraelor]

I have to pick out of hydrad/EgorK/silverspawn. If I pick correctly we win, right?

[Hydrad]

I have to pick out of hydrad/EgorK/silverspawn. If I pick correctly we win, right?

yes gl!

[silverspawn]

Well at least the suspicion means I won't be NKd.

So from my perspective, Seprix is basically the only scum possible, right?

yes

I have to pick out of hydrad/EgorK/silverspawn. If I pick correctly we win, right?

yes

[Seprix]

Watch, scum will lynch, XP will claim he 'missed'.

[silverspawn]

from your perspective, that's a 1/3 chance of a win without relying on us making the right choice. I honestly don't think you can do much to increase chances here, it seems like pure coincidence.

Watch, scum will lynch, XP will claim he 'missed'.

probably, but he is likely to miss even if he is town.

[Seprix]

I'm actually scared you might mislynch me. Rereading some of my posts, my caution might lose for town.

[Ichimaru Gin]

*sobs uncontrollably*
I'm kind of glad I'm dead though. This is far and above the most stressful game I've ever been in.

[silverspawn]

*sobs uncontrollably*
I'm kind of glad I'm dead though. This is far and above the most stressful game I've ever been in.

I'm actually really sorry for you. losing because of an internet timeout... uff.

But you played it really well. If not for faust's vote, I probably would have believed your claim.

[Hydrad]

*sobs uncontrollably*
I'm kind of glad I'm dead though. This is far and above the most stressful game I've ever been in.

You did good. I actually double checked my pm to make sure I didn't remember wrong

[Ichimaru Gin]

phone posting.

Thanks guys.
Yeah my Internet picking that exact time to hang sucked big time.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Welp. I'm going to bed.

[Teproc]

Day 5 Final Vote Count

Ichimaru Gin (4): Hydrad, XerxesPraelor, silverspawn, Seprix

Hydrad (1): Ichimaru Gin
Not Voting (1): Egork

With 6 alive, it took 4 to lynch. 

[Teproc]

Ichimaru Gin has been lynched. He was Mafioso B.

Night 5 will last 24 hours, unless anyone objects. Everyone is required to check in with the mod via PM or QT.

[Teproc]

No one died.

Day 6 begins !

[Teproc]

Vote Count 6.0

Not Voting (5): Egork, Hydrad, XerxesPraelor, silverspawn, Seprix

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. 

Day 6 ends at 05:00 a.m. on March 15, 2015.

[Hydrad]

WHAT

[Hydrad]

Sooooo it has to be Seprix?

oh my goodness XP. If its seprix (which I think it has to be) you are amazing. I think I was leaning towards lynching you.

[EgorK]

Well... Interesting

[EgorK]

Hydrad, can you post your night actions once more?

[Hydrad]

Hydrad, can you post your night actions once more?

SS - scum

TA - town

IG - no result

[Hydrad]

also thats night 1 2 3 three order.

I will also mention that SS had the chance to hammer me I'm almost sure of it many times. So there is no way it should be him.

[EgorK]

I'll check voting patterns D4 a little bit late just to be sure. Otherwise lynching serpix then XP seems like bags game for us

[silverspawn]

vote: Seprix

nicely done XP! who ddid you target?

[XerxesPraelor]

Targeted EgorK as the RNG told me to. I'm glad it worked out.

[XerxesPraelor]

vote: seprix

[EgorK]

No point to prolong this. Vote: serpix. XP for MVP in case we win

[Seprix]

Freaking dumb.

gg.

Of course you block Egork. Damn. I was THIS close to winning. I'm pretty pissed.

[Seprix]

I know I screwed up a bit in the end, but did I play okay, right? I mean, people thought I was Town for a bit.

[EgorK]

Just in case my vote would not count (it should) Vote: seprix

[Teproc]

Final Vote Count

Seprix (3): silverspawn, XerxesPraelor, Egork

Not Voting (2): Hydrad, Seprix

With 5 alive, it took 3 to lynch. 

Seprix has been lynched. He was Mafioso A

TOWN WINS !

[Teproc]

QTs and stuff will come later, I'm on my phone right now, other people can post them.

[pacovf]

Before D4, it looked all but lost for town. That day couldn't have possibly gone worse for scum.

Seprix, why didn't you quickhammer? It was an instant win for your faction.

[Witherweaver]

Yeah, weird that we won this.

Was the Doctor claim really necessary?

[Joseph2302]

Wow, we won this? Super-surprised. Well played town.

[Awaclus]

Yay, my first town win!

[Witherweaver]

I think maybe SS deserves MVP for carefully thinking through the Ichi/Hydrad claims, though XP prevented two kills, which is pretty impressive.

[faust]

Freaking dumb.

gg.

Of course you block Egork. Damn. I was THIS close to winning. I'm pretty pissed.

Well, we were this close to winning when you messed up the hammer. I think that pretty much decided the game. PoE didn't really give you much of a fighting chance after that.

These things happen though. It will work out better in the future.

[liopoil]

Town was ridiculously lucky to get away with the reckless voting. Seriously, if you vote in lylo before everyone has posted with an unclaimed cop in the game, you're just asking to lose.

[silverspawn]

Town was ridiculously lucky to get away with the reckless voting. Seriously, if you vote in lylo before everyone has posted with an unclaimed cop in the game, you're just asking to lose.

+++

[Seprix]

Eh. I'll do better next time, as scum AND town. I lost the game.

[Joseph2302]

Eh. I'll do better next time, as scum AND town. I lost the game.

Scum is hard, you were about 100 times better than my first scum game. I actually thought you were town.

[Seprix]

Eh. I'll do better next time, as scum AND town. I lost the game.

Scum is hard, you were about 100 times better than my first scum game. I actually thought you were town.

A lot of people did until I decided to play conservative at the end.

[A Drowned Kernel]

It's nice to see a turnaround like that, it feels like that kind of thing rarely happens.

[Teproc]

Mod QT : http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/vjUL9PM9i6PDv

Mafia QT : http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/kZGd5cQKqETTp

Speccy : http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/GhSZs59RcZTi

MVP goes to silverspawn. XP was a consideration because of the last two nights, but ultimately town only needed XP t hit those because he was a possible mislynch. silver was the one who had to make the tough choices during the day and made the right ones, also XP was the vote on Hydrad that would have given scum the win had Seprix hammered.

Sidenote : Seprix, I'm assuming you didn't hammer because you didn't realize you'd win on the spot ?

[Teproc]

Now the big question : why did scum lose ?

Obviously the failed quickhammer was a big deal. But I think faust definitely had to go for it in that situation, and then maybe IG could have been more subtle about it but I actually think the claim was a bad idea. Hydrad didn't actually have any particularly good results, which of course scum didn't know because the whole point of their claim was to go first so that it would be more believable.

If you don't claim, you still have to fight PoE even more because Hydrad is now an IC, but silverspawn and especially XP would have been quite lynchable at some point. By forcing the issue, scum basically made the Hydrad/IG choice worth the whole game.

Hindsight is 20/20 obviously, but I did think the claim wasn't necessary at the time given how ahead they were. Thoughts ?

[Twistedarcher]

Good job town! Sorry for falling off the face of the earth on D3, glad you guys could pull it through though

[Ichimaru Gin]

Now the big question : why did scum lose ?

Obviously the failed quickhammer was a big deal. But I think faust definitely had to go for it in that situation, and then maybe IG could have been more subtle about it but I actually think the claim was a bad idea. Hydrad didn't actually have any particularly good results, which of course scum didn't know because the whole point of their claim was to go first so that it would be more believable.

If you don't claim, you still have to fight PoE even more because Hydrad is now an IC, but silverspawn and especially XP would have been quite lynchable at some point. By forcing the issue, scum basically made the Hydrad/IG choice worth the whole game.

Hindsight is 20/20 obviously, but I did think the claim wasn't necessary at the time given how ahead they were. Thoughts ?

Yeah. Hindsight. I wouldn't have claimed at all. I could have sheeped the Hydrad wagon right off the start and faust probably could have hammered then.

[silverspawn]

yay! though I feel like I got really confused and overcomplicated things a lot of times, plus the quick votes were really bad. in the end our win was honestly more luck than anything else.

[Seprix]

Mod QT : http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/vjUL9PM9i6PDv

Mafia QT : http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/kZGd5cQKqETTp

Speccy : http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/GhSZs59RcZTi

MVP goes to silverspawn. XP was a consideration because of the last two nights, but ultimately town only needed XP t hit those because he was a possible mislynch. silver was the one who had to make the tough choices during the day and made the right ones, also XP was the vote on Hydrad that would have given scum the win had Seprix hammered.

Sidenote : Seprix, I'm assuming you didn't hammer because you didn't realize you'd win on the spot ?

I wasn't online when the hammering possibility happened. When I got online, I knew it looked REALLY bad for me and Gin, so I simply acted like I saw it and debated when in actuality I got on too late.

[Seprix]

Well, I did my best this game. I think I did pretty well, but circumstances didn't play out well.

Did everyone like my "Mafia B must be Faust" argument there? Total pro-town play there.

[Hydrad]

you did do pretty well.

Back from work! And wow, lots to read. Based on what I read, we lynch Hydrad or Faust. I like the Hydrad lynch.

I think this is the post where you had the chance to hammer me. If you voted me here I was dead.

But ya if it came down to you vs XP I'm still not sure which one I would of picked. You did much better then my first scum game.

[Witherweaver]

Back from work! And wow, lots to read. Based on what I read, we lynch Hydrad or Faust. I like the Hydrad lynch.

When  you posted here, Hydrad was at L-1.  He had XP, Faust, and Ichi on him.

[Witherweaver]

Oh, ninja'd

[Hydrad]

Oh, ninja'd

bwahahaha

[Witherweaver]

He probably didn't have time to catch up and see.  The votes were spread over like three pages.

[scott_pilgrim]

That was crazy, I don't think I've ever seen it get down to 3 scum at lylo and then have town lynch all three consecutively.  Though really I think it was just luck, scum had basically two chances to QH for a win and just missed it for silly reasons.

I feel like every time Ichimaru claims, all hell breaks loose.

[Teproc]

That was crazy, I don't think I've ever seen it get down to 3 scum at lylo and then have town lynch all three consecutively.  Though really I think it was just luck, scum had basically two chances to QH for a win and just missed it for silly reasons.

I feel like every time Ichimaru claims, all hell breaks loose.

Happened in the game just before your first one, Dynasty Warriors II.

Ichimaru was scum too ! But he didn't claim there, IIRC.

BTW silver : we now have two games where the IC got to lylo.

[ashersky]

For the record, the second claimant is always town.  (Edge cases excepted.)

[Teproc]

For the record, the second claimant is always town.  (Edge cases excepted.)

Who claimed first in Mean Girls ?

[liopoil]

IIRC I claimed second in that Yuma game where I was scum. Ash used this reasoning there and assumed I was town. Well, it was more that ash had a super scum read on TA anyway.

[Seprix]

He probably didn't have time to catch up and see.  The votes were spread over like three pages.

This.

[ashersky]

For the record, the second claimant is always town.  (Edge cases excepted.)

Who claimed first in Mean Girls ?

I think mcmcsalot?  I don't know.  It's more of a longrunning inside joke at this point.  Back in the M-teens, there was a string of games where that happened.

[sudgy]

For the record, the second claimant is always town.  (Edge cases excepted.)

I was going to claim second as scum in RMM, uh, 21, was it (Yoshi's Island)?  I realized I couldn't pull off the claim anyway because I didn't have enough info.